/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18895620]

>there are unironically people on this board who think gay sex is the root cause of civilizational collapse

[Anonymous No.18895624]

>>1889562
not on this board, we all know the true cause is women

[Anonymous No.18895625]

>>18895620
It did the Ancient Greeks in.

[Anonymous No.18895628]

>>18895620
"There are unironically people on this board."
>gets btfo'd by grammar.
>never sees it coming.

[Anonymous No.18895629]

>>18895620
Decadence destroys civilizations, faggotry and tolerance of faggotry is part of that.

[Anonymous No.18895630]

>>18895625
Did it though?

[Anonymous No.18895632]

>>18895620
No one in this board thinks it's the root, but many think it's a symptom. Those bigoted pricks.

[Anonymous No.18895637]

>>18895625
Things got only gayer with every civilization after them.

[Anonymous No.18895639]

>>18895629
you have to be 18 to post here

[Anonymous No.18895654]

>>18895629
/thread

[Anonymous No.18895656]

>>18895632
They’re not only bigots, they’re the very civilizational collapse they think gays are a symptom of.

[Anonymous No.18895666]

>>18895629
There is only one civilization and sub civilizations within it whose rise and fall is part of the natural cycle. The decline of one is necessary for the rise of others and both ought to be celebrated as the fulfillment of human destiny like the overgrown forest being cleansed by fire and made fertile anew.

[Anonymous No.18895671]

>>18895639
you're trying too hard to fit in

[Anonymous No.18895673]

>>18895632
homosexuality in itself is not a symptom but rampant sexual decadence and hedonism which many modern homosexuals engage are, this also applies to most heterosexuals today as well

[Anonymous No.18895681]

>>18895629
>Japan, with its population of 127,185,332, has the highest national debt in the world at 234.18% of its GDP, followed by Greece at 181.78%.

[Anonymous No.18895696]

>>18895681
So? The US has a much higher GDP and like 130% debt/gdp -- and Japan/China are the ones who own almost half of America's national debt.
In effect all of these countries owe debt to one another then back to themselves in a convoluted spiral of banking kikery. As long as they owe the majority to their own national banks, which both the US and Japan do, they can control and stabilize their currency.

[Anonymous No.18895704]

>>18895629
Weimar Germany was the height of European decadence and was followed by the rise of Nazi Germany.

[Anonymous No.18895707]

>>18895620
>civilizational collapse
>z
Pro-gay theorists are the least of your problems.

[Anonymous No.18895717]

OP is a faggot (I asssume?)

[Anonymous No.18895720]

Thing about homosexuality is that it moves in tandem with the severe decline of society. These things may be irrelevant to each other but the precedent is shown to repeat itself constantly in different societies throughout history. Truth is always something to be ashamed of but ancient Rome, pre revolution France, pre Nazi Germany and pre soviet Russia were always notoriously gay.

[Anonymous No.18895772]

>>18895696
it's as if capitalism is unsustainable or something

[Anonymous No.18895822]

All fruits rot.
Gays are just annoying.

[Anonymous No.18895838]

>>18895772
you have to be 18 to post here

[Anonymous No.18895844]

Is it the root cause? Certainly not. Is it one of the symptoms of civilizational decline? Absolutely yes and I'm saying this as a bisexual man who had sex with other men a couple of times

[Anonymous No.18895845]

Wait a second this is the literature board, are you in the right place OP?

[Anonymous No.18895853]

Camille Paglia said an efflorescence of transgender mania is a symptom of cultural collapse to Jordan Paterson so now everyone repeats it without expanding on her theory

[Anonymous No.18895859]

>>18895853
But you can't have great literature and art without heaps of bourgeois gays to be the Michelangelos

[Anonymous No.18895864]

>>18895620
The democratization of art, winning the first world war and internet are the roots.

[Anonymous No.18895866]

>Never you mind all the economical, social, political and external factors leading to the decline of Rome. It must've been the homosexual - and if it wasn't their fault then their presence is a symptom.
Profoundly stupid.

[Anonymous No.18895872]

>>18895620
I agree that it's not the cause. It's normalization is a consequence of the sexual revolution which finally dissociated sex from the reproductive purpose. After all, if straights can just fuck for pleasure without wanting to reproduce, why can't fags?

It's still awfully decadent though.

[Anonymous No.18895889]

>>18895872
It doesn't fucking matter if you normalise homosexuality or not. They'll keep fucking behind the scenes whether you like it or not. The insane excesses of the aristocracy should be treated as just that; the death throes of an uncaring ruling class ready to give up on their respective civilisation. Since fucking when did the rulers need society-wide approval to do "degenerate" things anyway?

[Anonymous No.18895892]

>>18895620
THEY'RE NOT GAY.
THEY'RE FAGS.
GOD HATES FAGS.
FAGS BURN IN HELL.
FAGS DIE - GOD LAUGHS.
FAGS = AIDS.
FAGS DOOM NATIONS.
AMEN.

[Anonymous No.18895897]

>>18895620
Fucking retarded niggers, if you ask me.
First: what collapse? We are in a world with the best life conditions ever, to the point where the MAJORITY discusses MINORITIES' issues.
Second, since fucking when a MINORITY have ever destroyed something? They might say:"French revolution", or "Stalinism"... Very dumb argument, if you ask me... Minorities kill minorities, because minorities interact only with other minorities... You can't be killed by a nigger if you are not a nigger lover. You can't get STD if you don't fuck whores. Collapse cannot be perpetuated by minorities because minorities will collapse before making any meaningful impact.
>t. Sedevacantist

[Anonymous No.18895905]

>>18895720
>Truth is always something to be ashamed of but ancient Rome, pre revolution France, pre Nazi Germany and pre soviet Russia were always notoriously gay.
You could equally see this historical pattern as men remasculinizing each other through homosexuality in preparation for a revolution.
Generative, as opposed to a symptom of decay.

[Anonymous No.18895911]

>>18895625
>>18895629
>>18895673
>>18895720
>>18895844
>>18895872
>homosexuality practiced in antiquity from very early on
>durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr it cause collapse

[Anonymous No.18895914]

>>18895905
>You could equally see this historical pattern as men remasculinizing each other through homosexuality in preparation for a revolution.
When I was a kid, I saw a documentary film where the commentator said that some Greek philosopher said that if you are gay during the first stages of puberty, you'll end up having a 100% heterosexual life. If not, there would be a chance to become either a fag or bisex

[Anonymous No.18895916]

>The democratization of art, winning the first world war and internet are the roots.

[Anonymous No.18895919]

>>18895914
An arab scholar on Memri TV said earrings in both ears is 150% chance of homosexuality yet I am only about 35% fag. What gives?

[Anonymous No.18895921]

>>18895919
>100% heterosexual life
I meant to say "there was no chance ending up being gay/bisex"

[Anonymous No.18895925]

>>18895620
This is a literary board. I think you might want to try /pol/.

[Anonymous No.18895928]

>>18895620
I just wanna love and be loved

[Anonymous No.18895929]

>>18895921
I'm not following, anon. If one is homosexual in the early staged of puberty, it'll lead to an otherwise 100% heterosexual life. But if not, there's no chance one ends up homo- or bisexual. These two sentences seem to say the same thing.

[Anonymous No.18895932]

>>18895914
>>18895929
>if you are gay during the first stages of puberty, you'll end up having a 100% heterosexual life
hmm didn't end up being the case for me. I liked other boys before puberty. also I'm not familiar with any Greek quote like that, and indeed others suggest the opposite. Perhaps you're misremembering someone talking about the anthropological fact that pederasty was an intermediary life stage and not necessarily indicative of a homosexual orientation?

[Anonymous No.18895933]

>>18895925
>those who read books have no opinion on the world, so the books they read are not influenced by their ideas

[Anonymous No.18895934]

>>18895889
While it is true that elites always have acted as if they had a different morality than common people,
brazenly violating taboos would still have dire consequences.
An important distinction with pre-modern societies is that anything libidinal has become more and more accepted, which is a consequence of collapsing traditional authorities.
The new authorities do have taboos like racism etc. but are not able to actually maintain a society because they promote individualism and are incapable of any legitimacy.

[Anonymous No.18895944]

>>18895911
Both Plato and Pelopidas literally lived to see the Greek states collapse and decay around them.

[Anonymous No.18895945]

>>18895932
>Perhaps you're misremembering someone talking about the anthropological fact that pederasty was an intermediary life stage and not necessarily indicative of a homosexual orientation?
That was my thought as well. Homosocial settings will inevitably lead to homosexual behaviour, certainly in pubescent teenagers - one only needs to look at boarding schools - but it doesn't necessarily say all that much about future sexual tendencies (though it can).

[Anonymous No.18895947]

>>18895944
Yeah that's because dumb athenians started hating homos after pelop war..

[Anonymous No.18895951]

>>18895934
>brazenly violating taboos would still have dire consequences.
I'd agree with you there, assuming it goes far enough. But then one has to remember that taboos aren't universal; they can always change over time, disappear, be replaced by new taboos.

[Anonymous No.18895960]

>>18895947
>faggots lose war destroying their own power forever
>nooo they were losers because they weren't gay and decadent enough!
nice cope, dope

[Anonymous No.18895962]

>>18895629
B A S E D
A
S
E
D

[Anonymous No.18895968]

>>18895960
>muh favourite city state loses war because their system of government makes them do insanely stupid shit
>it was the fags
Come on, anon. Greece civilisation didn't decline because of fags, nor did fag hating cause the decline.

[Anonymous No.18895980]

>>18895968
Are you dumb or just trying to confuse the issue? The decline you speak of happened in tandem with the acceptance of homosexuality. Every civilization that loosens its morals which includes engaging in frivolous fornication dies, this is a pattern that is seen all throughout history.

[Anonymous No.18895981]

Maybe homosexuality historically isn't much worse than heterosexuality, and much like heterosexuality has been perverted in modern times due to a sick culture (tinder as an extension of the bathhouse into the straight domain. The gay uncle hypothesis may be correct and many prominently great men were incidentally or opportunistically bisexual. If anything it's the unreserved bonobo like sexuality of moderns that is the problem, not any one expression of it.

[Anonymous No.18895986]

>>18895980
We find homosexuality in Greek archaeology and literature from around the 7th century BC onwards and associated with many of its best achievements in arts and culture. It seems spurious to associate it with decline, unless it began literally to decline from the moment it emerged out of the Greek Dark Ages.

[Anonymous No.18895989]

>>18895980
Anon, what the fuck are you talking about? Greek pederasty precedes the rise and zenith of greek civilisation.

[Anonymous No.18895992]

>>18895981
>this practice which 100% cannot yield children and thus is totally hedonistic AND involves an act that misappropriates the use of organs and orifices that directly causes all kinds of horrible diseases isn't fundamentally wrong
>it's just culture bro not nature
lol

[Anonymous No.18896000]

>>18895992
>you can't heckin' love each other if you're both men that's hedonistic!

[Anonymous No.18896004]

>>18895986
>>18895989
No-one said it didn't exist, only that it wasn't normalized. Homosexuality became progressively more and more common among the Greek elite as they in turn became more wealthy, powerful, and divorced from the founding principles and rigors of their civilization. You can find instances of homosexuality anywhere, but you will also find instances of ridicule and shame corresponding.

[Anonymous No.18896011]

>>18896000
love != sexual love

so tiresome trying to 'debate' dishonest people who intend on confusing issues rather than discuss them

[Anonymous No.18896013]

>>18895620
Not the root cause, just one of many issues.

[Anonymous No.18896014]

>>18895992
Do you think all heterosexual men in history produced children? Seems like the last thing you should against the homosexuals if there's even a shred of honesty in you.
>>18896004
You're so preoccupied with your own faggot thesis you'll do anything to justify it.

[Anonymous No.18896021]

"If homosexuality is supposedly incompatible with civilization then what about the Greeks
Stormweenies 0 - Based Homos 1" is a real sad misrepresentation.
Visions on homosexuality may have been more or less tolerant in the past, but every civilization in the past has tried to control sexuality, homosexual or not.
You were not allowed to marry your boylover and being a manslut was not tolerated.
Modern society is distinct in that the ruling forces have largely lost control of sexuality (notable exceptions include pedophilia, for now)
So yeah, anal fisting and pozzing parties being allowed, even though only a small fraction of the populace participates in those things, is notable.

[Anonymous No.18896023]

>>18896014
>Do you think all heterosexual men in history produced children?
No, which is why I said "100% cannot" you moron. Male/female sex can produce children in principle, male/male cannot. Outliers like the old and sterile do not affect the principle.

[Anonymous No.18896025]

>>18895992
embrace dionysus-pill, cuck
my love for twinks is undying and burns with more vitality than you will ever feel

[Anonymous No.18896030]

>>18896023
>only the old and sterile are outliers
Your foundations are built on sand, anon. How are you this delusional? Let's not engage in the wishful thinking of a tradcath.

[Anonymous No.18896031]

>>18895620
>>there are unironically people on this board who think gay sex is the root cause of civilizational collapse
SHIEEEET

[Anonymous No.18896033]

>>18896030
I didn't say "only". You dishonest fuck.

[Anonymous No.18896036]

>>18896031

[Anonymous No.18896039]

>>18896031
I'm sure tinder is doing a good job adjusting those statistics among heteros.

[Anonymous No.18896041]

>>18896033
Then recognise my point instead of trying to avoid it. The potentiality of offspring is a terrible excuse as it collapses the second heterosexuals fail to procreate. It's limp-dick moralising at its worst.

[Anonymous No.18896048]

>>18896004
>Homosexuality became progressively more and more common among the Greek elite as they in turn became more wealthy, powerful, and divorced from the founding principles and rigors of their civilization.
Source? Or is this just a literal conjecture fantasy you made up in your head
>>18896011
Sexuality is a normal part of heterosexual love, why is it suddenly debased when homosexuals love each other sexually too?

[Anonymous No.18896053]

>>18896036
>99.8% of lgbt teens will change their sexual orientation within 13 years
so maybe it really is harmless sexplay among a youth in which both genders are pretty and androgynous. If that's the case instead of treating it like such a evil it should be left alone.

[Anonymous No.18896057]

>>18896036
Most studies find no difference in outcome between homo and hetero parents.

[Anonymous No.18896063]

>engaging with screencaps
Just stop.

[Anonymous No.18896083]

>>18895889
>It doesn't fucking matter if you normalise homosexuality or not.

It absolutely matters. If it's not normalized, then it may still be done, but people still get the message that it's not something that "should" be done, that it's something better relegated to the margins and underbelly of society and not something that should dictate how "proper" society should work.

Normalized homosexuality just further drills the idea that the purpose of sex is the immediate gratification of the people that fuck, and not the building of a family. In this respect, it's not the primary cause of decay, which is the sexual revolution itself, but it is a symptom of its deepening. Because when sex gets divorced from family, what you get is the commodification of sex, the destruction of ties of trust between people.

Observe how men and women distrust each other right now. Part of that is due to the economy, but the changing in sexual morals has played a role in that too. Women hate when they get pumped and dumped; men (other than the absolute top percentile) fear divorce and/or inceldom. Not even same-sex relationships are safe now, as they used to be reasonably assumable to be free of the sexual element, but now, since gays are normals, everyone expects that two close friends of the same sex eventually get intimate, which either makes people push each other away or introduces the messy element of sexuality into their relationship.

This is all a consequence of accepting the notion that sex is divorced from making babies. It literally destroyed trust and social cohesion, reduced people's long range vision, and is most likely irreversible until the collapse happens.

[Anonymous No.18896097]

>>18896083
The most degenerate parts of contemporary homosexual culture arose in societies where homosexuals were completely marginalised. "Gay culture" is the product of the underbelly. If homosexuality were codified within society the way heterosexuality has been, I believe it'd have been very different. I'm not going to respond to your neo-cath preaching.

[Anonymous No.18896115]

>>18896083
These seem mostly like consequences of the pill and capitalism. Men and women have always beheld each other with suspicion and enmity and society is constantly evolving new ways to mediate the conflict between the sexes. Not to say that modern problems aren't qualitatively and quantitatively different in some respects, just that they are extensions of pre-existing phenomena, rather than completely novel, and that the past has never been static nor perfectly tranquil.
>now, since gays are normals, everyone expects that two close friends of the same sex eventually get intimate
? what

[Anonymous No.18896119]

>>18896097
Gays aren’t marginalized anymore yet they act like complete degenerates.

[Anonymous No.18896125]

>>18895933
>i read books so i cant post on other boards

[Anonymous No.18896131]

>>18896115
Camaraderie is dead because any display of male friendship is automatically assumed to be homosexual in nature.
Just look at the rash of recent articles claiming Frodo and Sam in LOTR are gay just because they are close friends.

[Anonymous No.18896132]

>>18896119
The acceptance of homosexuality is exclusive to certain regions of the western world. It's not even universal in the most progressive countries. The "gay culture" of today is a product of the gay culture of the 70s, 80s and 90s, when being a fag was still something you'd rather not mention at all. If you can't see that you're either an idiot or a reprehensible, dishonest fuck.

[Anonymous No.18896147]

>>18896131
>Camaraderie is dead because any display of male friendship is automatically assumed to be homosexual in nature.
This is only true in social groups where homosexuality is still something people are afraid of. When I went to high school in the first half of the 2010s there was no shortage of male friends showing physical affection through, for example, hugs. My experience is definotely not universal, neither is yours.

[Anonymous No.18896150]

>>18896131
>Camaraderie is dead because any display of male friendship is automatically assumed to be homosexual in nature.
Can you tell me which displays of male friendship exactly lead to imputations of homosexuality? The taboos against men holding hands and kissing in Anglo-Saxon vastly predate the emergence of gay rights.
>Just look at the rash of recent articles claiming Frodo and Sam in LOTR are gay just because they are close friends.
People write all kinds of retarded pop cultural commentary. Is this something that affects people in everyday life. Has it ever affected you or someone you know?

[Anonymous No.18896165]

>>18896053
Not when children "decide" to become eunuchs and start taking estrogen pills. As for homosexuality, yeah, sure, I don't have much of a moral opposition to it.
>>18896057
source? I've seen much on the contrary. Personal experience and empirical facts.

[Anonymous No.18896209]

>>18896165
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-635

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15504280802177615

https://journals.lww.com/jrnldbp/Abstract/2016/04000/Same_Sex_and_Different_Sex_Parent_Households_and.1.aspx


Family stability is the greatest predictor of successful outcomes for children. The respective sexes of the parents appears to have no significant effect.

[Anonymous No.18896218]

>>18896165
>>18896209
Oh, I should point out this paper though, which puts forward the opinion that current research doesn't allow us to state with any certainty whether same-sex parents are better or worse than others
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01494929.2015.1033317

[Anonymous No.18896265]

I believe the permissiveness of society and its allowance of unnatural lusts to become not only acceptable but in fact championed will be the root of the downfall of civilization.

[Anonymous No.18896320]

>>18895620
Gay sex is a symptom anon.

[Anonymous No.18896370]

>>18896147
Calling a straight man a fag is still seen as an insult to their masculinity, the word “faggot” still has the power to offend and you get accusations of homophobia for saying it because it’s still seen as an insult.
Men don’t become close friends anymore because any sign of male affection is taken as proof of homosexuality, and completely straight guys take offense to this, hence why they avoid making displays of male friendship lest they be branded a fag.

[Anonymous No.18896376]

>>18896209
>>18896218
Thanks, you're better than most who are arguing in this thread

[Anonymous No.18896377]

>>18896370
>Men don’t become close friends anymore because any sign of male affection is taken as proof of homosexuality
citation needed

[Anonymous No.18896379]

>>18896370
All you did was repeat yourself and your anecdote.

[Anonymous No.18896386]

>>18896320
This, op's argument is based on a strawman

[Anonymous No.18896397]

>>18896386
The strawman has come to life several times in this very thread, anon.
>homosexuality as symptom
is just a rewording of the same inane sentiment.

[Anonymous No.18896532]

>>18896397
Let me rephrase that: rampant homosexuality and encouragement of sexual deviancy in those not deviant is a symptom of a degenerated society.

[Anonymous No.18896545]

>>18896532
why is this the case?

[Anonymous No.18896555]

>>18896370
>I have no male friends, therefore males don't form close friendships anymore

[Anonymous No.18896561]

>>18896555
fag

[Anonymous No.18896576]

>>18896555
It’s not just me retard, there’s a loneliness epidemic, people say they have 0 close friends they could confide in and it’s not just caused by technology and the pandemic, this has been going on for years.
Part of the reason is guys don’t get too close for fear of being labeled gay.

[Anonymous No.18896585]

>>18896576
>Part of the reason is guys don’t get too close for fear of being labeled gay.
proof?

[Anonymous No.18896643]

>>18895620
Degeneracy is a symptom, not a cause.

Faggotry is a canary. When that flamboyant canary starts squawking and prancing around, it's telling you a toxic emination is about, and to either escape or deal with it.

[Anonymous No.18896670]

>>18896643
It's one of the reasons I'm in favour if prostitution, tranniess, drugs. A healthy society will shun it. An unhealthy one won't. If you see these things becoming popular it's a warning that something in society is causing it. If you deal with it, then the degeneracy should subside.

If you attack the degeneracy head on, then you're leaving the cause untouched, and made it harder to detect.

[Anonymous No.18896674]

>>18896643
But homosexuality is associated with all the best and most cultured periods. As Voltaire wrote:
>Chased like Lot from his asylum, / the poor god [of anti-natural love: 'l’amour anti-physique'] fled from city to city. / He came to Greece, and there gave lessons / more than once to Socrates and Plato. / He made his home with heros / sometimes at Rome, and then at Florence, / seeking always, you may well note, / peoples who were civilized and cultivated in the arts.
Voltaire, Anti-Giton, 1714