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/lit/ - Literature

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18710392 No.18710392 [Reply] [Original]

>jesus says, ONCE, that it's morally imperative not to be wealthy
>the bible otherwise says that virtuous people are rewarded with wealth, that riches are a desirable and acceptable thing, and often places the rich in heroic positions
>Jesus is especially prone to doing the last one in his parables
Huh?

>> No.18710407

>>18710392
>jesus says, ONCE, that it's morally imperative not to be wealthy


NO, HE DOES NOT.

>> No.18710434
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18710434

>>18710407the rich man parable?
Camel through the eye of a needle?

>> No.18710437

>>18710392
You have to remember that the people Jesus was teaching did not have an abstract, intellectualized concept of utility or economic value. Not even the philosophers had actual economic theories, so its a bit ludicrous to except him to use the language of pure utility. Money as a symbol carried with it the closest thing to an abstract concept of value that First Century illiterates would have had. Plus the parables are perfectly understandable as figurative. I don't really see why this is so difficult.

>> No.18710444

>>18710434
Yeah but this says nothing about Jesus' interpretation of accreting wealth. The parable is simply given to imply that it is difficult, but not impossible, to be virtuous and have a lot of wealth. :3

>> No.18710450

>>18710434
what is that picture? the whole
>eye of the needle is just a small gate lol
interpretation is BS, no such gate ever existed in Jerusalem. He really does mean that attachment to worldly possessions disqualifies you from the Kingdom of God.

>> No.18710453

>>18710450
> He really does mean that attachment to worldly possessions disqualifies you from the Kingdom of God
Indeed it does, but are we to understand this as meaning that NO WEALTHY PERSON GETS INTO HEAVEN? Absolutely not. :3

>> No.18710462

>>18710453
Right, take St Helena for instance

>> No.18710465

>>18710450
“ It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Eat it.
The painting is a Beksinski

>> No.18710473

>>18710465
paint?

>> No.18710476

>>18710465
I've got a mincer, you bring the bourgeoisie.

>> No.18710478
File: 132 KB, 1000x1163, E833BB2A-DED6-4D51-B3BA-09E62C170686.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18710478

>>18710473
Actual paint.
He was dabbling in cgi just before his senseless murder

>> No.18710483

>>18710434


IT WAS NOT A PARABLE, BUT, RATHER, A METAPHOR FOR SOMETHING THAT HAD JUST HAPPENED: THE RICH MAN REFUSING TO SELL ALL HIS POSSESSIONS TO FOLLOW JESUSCHRIST.

WHAT JESUSCHRIST MEANT WITH THE CAMEL METAPHOR IS THAT «THE RICH» ARE LESS PRONE TO FOLLOW THE PATH OF TRUTH, AND VIRTUE, AND MORE PRONE TO LOSE THEMSELVES IN THE WORLD, THAN «THE POOR», BECAUSE THE FORMER HAVE A GREATER STAKE IN THE WORLD THAN THE LATTER, NOT BECAUSE MATERIAL WEALTH IS CORRUPTIVE IN ITSELF.

CHRISTIANITY IS NOT PAUPERISTIC; CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE IS NOT ANTITHETICAL TO MATERIAL WEALTH, NOR TO MUNDANE PREEMINENCE; THE PROBLEM IS SACRIFICING ETERNAL LIFE FOR THE SAKE OF THE MORTAL ONE; CHOOSING THE KINGDOM OF THE WORLD OVER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; THIS IS SOMETHING IN WHICH IT IS INCURRED BY BOTH: «RICH», AND «POOR».

PAUPERISM DOES NOT EQUATE TO SALVATION, AS WEALTH DOES NOT ENTAIL DAMNATION, NOR CONVERSELY; IT IS NOT A PROBLEM OF WEALTH AGAINST DEARTH, BUT, RATHER, ONE OF HVMILITAS CONTRA SVPERBIA.

>> No.18710493

>>18710483
>BUT, RATHER, ONE OF HVMILITAS CONTRA SVPERBIA.
I don't think that anyone who thinks himself above normal typing patterns can say much about humility.

>> No.18710498

>>18710493


I DOUBT THAT YOU CAN THINK AT ALL.

>> No.18710500

>And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
>When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
>But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
With God all things are possible, but yeah obviously if you love the material riches of the world that's s major block between you and God, so better get rid of the money.

>> No.18710503

>>18710407
>"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." - Matthew 19:21
???

>> No.18710504
File: 595 KB, 1459x1786, AE7F50B9-2790-4D35-AECC-CA4D928D0397.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18710504

>>18710483
>BUT, RATHER, A METAPHOR
True enough. The rest is heresy. You’re going to Hell.
And what’s with this attachment to Salinger? You know he was a Mason, right?

>> No.18710509

>>18710503


HOW DOES THAT MEAN: «IT IS IMPERATIVE NOT TO BE WEALTHY», ACCORDING TO YOU?

>> No.18710510

>>18710392
Cope. Jesus on multiple occasions describes wealth and salvation as incompatible. The early Christians were extremely ascetic and lived in complete poverty sharing all their possessions. Some convert in Acts gets instantly cursed and killed for refusing to sell his property.

Also this thread is full of namefag schizos. What a shitshow

>> No.18710514

>>18710504
You should never say anyone is going to Hell. Instead we should pray for every single one.

>> No.18710521

Butterfly literally believes in God now :3

Jfc

>> No.18710530

>>18710521
>>18710514


IRONYCHALLENGED PERSONS.

>> No.18710533

>>18710509
>To be perfect, you can't own possessions
>It's more likely for an impossible thing to happen than for a rich man to enter heaven
>"WhAt EvEr CoUlD hE hAvE mEaNt???"

>> No.18710536

>>18710530
You have to understand people change. The idea of people changing is pretty important to me and Butterfly :3

She has obviously changed me a little too.

>> No.18710543

>>18710533
>To be perfect, you can't own possessions...

?


>It's more likely for an impossible thing to happen than for a rich man to enter heaven

QVOD VIDE:

>>18710483

>> No.18710561

>>18710498
You think that's an epic comeback, but it really just proves the point about your egotism.
>>18710500
The disciples' reaction is interesting. They seem to have their own concerns about a positive virtue/wealth link, before Jesus waves it off with "generally we're hopeless".
So he seems to be doing some bait and switch act in the conversation, "going yeah, the rich man is mortally incapable of enteting Heaven, but that's mostly because he's a man". Yet it doesn't change the fact that Jesus just prescribed a course of action that points to "yeah it's because he's rich".

>> No.18710578

>>18710561


TO WHAT «POINT» ARE YOU REFERRING? THE OBTUSE IS DULL, NOT POINTY.

>> No.18710584

>>18710561
I think it's an epic comeback

>> No.18710672

>>18710483

A good post, for once.

>> No.18711019

didn't this camel through the eye pf the needle parable came from a mistranslation/miscopy by a scribe?
iirc it was a word for Thread which is one letter away from Camel.

>> No.18711061

>>18710407
>>18710483
>>18710498
>>18710509
>>18710530
>>18710543
>>18710578
Please stop shouting.