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/lit/ - Literature

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18552293 No.18552293[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

I'm interested in contemporary debates surrounding the nature of sexual orientation. I would appreciate books that deal with questions such as
>is there a "gay gene"?
>are trannies biologically or socially conditioned?

>> No.18552326

Irreversible Damage by Shrier was the recent mainstream anti-tranny book that caused a controversy for suggesting that grooming children to be self-mutilating sex perverts who hate themselves is weird and bad. The non-mainstream and much better version is The Transgender Industrial Complex by Scott Howard which explicitly links it to the Jewish question.

Ray Blanchard is one of the anti-tranny doctors trannies hate.

>> No.18552345

>>18552293
I would also like one. and I would rather it not be polemic.

I have always found the conceptualization of at least the modern versions of these ideas very strange and myopic in a way. I can understand how they develop in part as antithetical notions to another extreme, but they in themselves see to be rather fragile abstractions in their qualities.

>> No.18552358

>>18552326
Thank you. I know about these books as they were shilled on /lit/ many times but I'm interested in both dissident as well as mainstream takes on the issue. My understanding is that these books argue against the idea that transgenderism and its growth in recent years are the result of people's free expression of their inborn biological traits (stuff like gendered brain etc.) but I'm also interested in books that support that idea.

>> No.18552424

>>18552293
>AAAAA 5.6% (out of 100%) AAAAAAAAA

>> No.18552549

>>18552326
>Ray Blanchard is one of the anti-tranny doctors trannies hate
He's not anti-tranny.
He believes that agp is as valid a reason to transition as being hsts.

>> No.18552568

>>18552549
This. It's actually pretty funny how much transgender people seethe over Blanchard considering all he's done is say that some (not all) of them are doing it for fetishistic reasons (but there's nothing wrong with that).

>> No.18553980

>>18552293
im sure an SNP exists for it. As for the latter, does it matter? If they wish to transition let them... Take the millpill bro

>> No.18553984

Bump

>> No.18554007
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18554007

>>18552293
This book has a great summary of the latest research on environmental toxins responsible for reproductive defects, including homosexuality and transgenderism.

>> No.18554257

>>18552293
>>is there a "gay gene"?
I'm not personally aware of any recent books delving into the relationship of homosexuality and genetics accounting for the most recent data (perhaps Debra Soh's?) but it seems to be found pretty consistently that it is a combination of genetic/biological and environmental factors. No single 'gay gene' has been discovered but several hundred thousands 'gay genes', or gene markers associated with homosexuality, have been discovered, although they only account for 8%-25% of same-sex activity/attraction. The remaining is likely due to both environment/social possibilities as well as prenatal hormones during pregnancy (the best predictor of a homosexual male being born is the number of previous male pregnancies a woman has, when the body is bathed in estrogens and other hormones).

Transgenderism isn't a sexual orientation, and I don't know as much about it partially because the science is more flimsy (only social sciences can really attempt to study it and inter-subjectivity seems to be its foundation), but the only biological research I'm aware of usually shows an overlap of feminine gay men end up being trans.

I'd also consider a skepticism of the actual homosexual orientation rates increasing as suggested with Gen Z polling data, because there are many teens nowadays who don't really have much or any same-sex attraction but see "LGBT" as some homogenous culture or unconsciously as an aesthetic movement and identify with it. Some will argue there have "always" been such a number of "people who identify LGBT" living in the closet and only come out because society has become more accepting, and I think there's maybe some slight accuracy to that on a very small scale, but sounds pretty absurd to me on a large scale and I haven't seen any data supporting it (it also ignores any possibility of social contagion or environmental influence)

>> No.18554278

>>18552293
There is no sexuality correlation between identical twins, so there probably isn't a gene that causes you to be gay.

>> No.18555401

what is the nature of identity in general
attention and belief. be it an action or a story in your head
the end
that's it
that's all
is it making you miserable? then its not worth doing.
is it making you feel good and are you expanding (in literally whatever direction)? it's right.

that's it
that's all
save yourself the years of arbitrary verbal poopoo
humanity goes through its phases until its tired of the direction

>> No.18555422

>>18555401
this is to say
its all just conditioning one way or another
im not saying searching for a "gay gene" doesn't matter
but if genetic is the language bedrock of everything, then there is a "gene" for everything that environment, actions and reactions (literal chemical/emotional), will activate/turn off-on.

its all just normalization one way or another
life is just a vice one way or another. if its worth doing then people will keep doing it

>> No.18555426

>>18552293
Why are lumping together the silent and greatest generation.

>> No.18555580

>>18554257
As a pretty traditional reader or psychology I‘ve always been skeptical of the whole geneticity of psychological phenomena. We can adequately explain most things using psychology and simply posit that some are characteristically influenced by generic factors which are not so much “gay genes” as genes contributing to a sexuality leaning to, favouring to homosexuality.
You may be influenced at a point by yourself, your Self and society to become a homosexual as a logical consequence of your person in this instance. It’s not a given and absolute, but a part of the human condition, which has its reasons—positive and negative, we can look at.

I‘ve been seeing a trend in Gen Z as a Zoomer myself whereby all those not fitting into the traditional model are described to be and seen as likely LGBT. Don’t have a girlfriend for a long time? Maybe you‘re queer or like guys, or something like that. Have you ever thought about that? The fears against the suggestion and suggestibility put against early psychoanalysis seem to have become realise in a sense, where not the doctor suggests but rather the environment. I have no backing for that but it’s anecdotally interesting to consider here. This may also tie in with the above, where considering it as a lifestyle, a way of life more so, and as a given, as if there are no reasons and you’re just a homosexual without choice in that—which may or may not be so depending on the person, or not—and as if you cannot be here and now, but also forever as the person you are, be nothing but a homosexual. You ought to be, really.

This is made to be part not only of your inmediate desires in a sexual sense and general sense, but also your person as a whole. That is Jim, he‘s a homosexual accountant. It’s sexualising orientation into differentiated sexes. You wouldn’t, for example, say: that‘s Susy, he‘s our female sales person. That just makes her being a woman which she cannot influence to an unnecessary degree a factor of alienation. As a homosexual you ought to have sex like this, think like this, go to Christopher street day, support these policies; it’s an issue more grave which also highlights and unnecessarily puts to odds biological sexes. I find here at least the same issues lie at heart of both, where you are driven by your person, which is a social entity determined in part on how others see you, to influence and make the same principal source of your identity, for the sake of Being and being the real you; the best and most true /person/ you could be, further reducing the human to some biochemical machine which can be fixed by drugs and behaviourist orientation alone, instead of changing the environment (general, societal and immediate) around you to accommodate rather yourself and self, you become slave of your environment.

>> No.18555588

Gayness is a mental disease

>> No.18555598

>>18554257
Transgenderism is a sexual orientation and they all know it.

>> No.18555614

It's an ideological movement that promotes specific identities and behaviors revolving around modern definitions of sexuality and gender. LGBT is a normal part of liberalism and our mass consumer culture. Self-identification into the movement is all that matters at this point. None of these sexualities or gender identities have any merit to them, they're just personal identities that people to choose to celebrate decadence and find community with other people.

It's not going away any time soon, nor is there a genetic basis for it. Rainbow flags will be everywhere until the West forces the rest of the world to accept LGBT. I wouldn't be surprised if a quarter of young people in America are LGBT by 2030.

>> No.18555616

>>18555580
I don’t have much of a clue how to support this but by giving the human more agency and unfortunately declaring a lot of data as suggestion or insufficient analysis. This could be supported by more traditional psychological sources and principles but of course stands against everything psychology since the 60-70s so wouldn’t have a chance in hell of ever being accepted. That a psychologist, or worse yet, a real scientist, like a biologist, could be wrong and have committed himself to wrong or dubious data, or interpreted the real data wrongly, as if we could reproduce any of it, attacks method, person and identity, and I, as said, don‘t see anyone succeeding here against the established bureaucracy and political institution of what was scientific academia.

>> No.18555666

Douglas Murray have a great book on this, it's called The Madness of Crowds: Gender, Race and Identity

>> No.18555675

>>18555580

I have no idea what youre trying to say lol.

>>18554278
Yes there is, you’re chatting shit mate.

>>18552293
What is LGBT even? Every second boomer calls themselves queer these days and then only dates opposite sex. I would guess the study was questionairre based and either asked for a self report or asked broad questions like, ‘have you ever had a mild attraction to someone of the same sex?’

Being part ofthe LGBT community cannot be more common than left-handedness in the zoomer population.

>> No.18555871

>>18552568
Why is it so hard for them to admit they do it because it turns them on?

>> No.18555890

>>18555871
Because TRAs can't tolerate anything that might call into question the whole notion of "gender" as a vital aspect of personal identity. Because if you do that, it invalidates their demand for constant deference and affirmation and lessens their status as a victim class.

>> No.18555927

>>18555871
Do what?
I'm an AGP and at no stage in my transition did anything turn me on, not shaving myself, putting makeup on, wearing bras, wearing women's clothing, taking HRT, seeing myself grow breasts or see my fat distribution change (over 4 years of hormones) or my skin change or my hair get long, etc
I didn't transition because it turns me on
What happened was that AGP and all of the times I indulged in AGP (masturbating to fantasies about being a woman sleeping with men) led to my mind developing in a way that caused me to experience distress having a male body and living as a boy (man) and hence I transitioned because I was totally depressed, cried multiple times a day, felt completely disassociated from my body and felt dead inside

>> No.18555932

>>18555927
Oh I should add that I've been indulging in AGP since I was 12 years old, unusually I never crossdressed though for me it was mainly anatomic and interpersonal

>> No.18556311

>>18552293

People in 4chan don't like science that just alludes the idea of scientific gender dysphoria.

That being said, this topics are somewhat well documented to a certain point and are being researched even more, books like the first are the worst because nothing is based in scientific research, sadly as you may know, books are no longer the main source of new knowledge so almost everything real is in papers.

Start with something like this, read it and just see what part you like and read the papers quoted:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/28/why-are-transgender-people-immune-to-optical-illusions/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

Reading about gender non-conforming people prior to modern science and transgender "ideology" really shows how normal is to feel that way, but I've faced strong backlash on forums like this just for mentioning, but this might interest you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muxe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)

>> No.18556348

>>18555927
>giving into the addiction rather than fixing it
Disgusting.

>> No.18556365

>>18552424
Yeah when you count all the old farts. Among millenials and zoomers theres way too many faggots

>> No.18556414

>>18552293
>is there a gay gene
No, if there was we wouldnt be seeing such a rise in homosexuals. There is a "risk taking gene" and a large amount of homosexuals have it. The gene is a marker for people likely to try dangerous things like trying heroine or letting a stranger cum bareback into your ass.
>are trannies bioligically or socially conditioned.
Id argue at any given point there is a small percent of the population with genuine dysphoria about their sex, but the majority of trannies are men exploring denegerate (and trendy) sexual fetishes.
If it was treated as a mental debility rather than an identity group we wouldnt have this problem.

>> No.18556427

>>18552293
mean the ideology doesnt make any sense gays and trannies are "born that way" and unfairly oppressed by those evil cis white males. And also gender is a social construct and masculinity is toxic i tell you these people are brainwashed. Gee for some reason its way easier to find scientific proof for race iq correlation than for homosexuality or transgenderism having a scientific basis. when anyone with half a brain can see he main causes of homosexuality and transgenderism are a) having been horribly raped and molested as a child b) growing up without a father c) falling for globohomo psyops and propaganda d)watching too much pornography e) mental illness.

Reminder: When lgbt talk about their identity being based of science this is what they mean by "science"

https://youtu.be/VtJFb_P2j48

>> No.18556431

>>18552549
From listening to the wretched creatures you get the sense AGP and HSTS are what psychiatrists refer to as "word salad" meaningless terms spouted by the mentally ill.

>> No.18556469

>>18556311
mean i know we are not allowed to say it but why is their no well adjusted trannies why are they all mentally ill social parasites with various commorbidities? Theres always something obviouslt wrong with them and also they talk like they're brainwashed or in autistic monotone. I mean many of them happen to be autists and they are more valuable that way you can hook them on heroin and get them to prostitute themselves to perverts when otheriwise they would just be useless retarded slabs of meat fit only for the knackers . as an eugenicist im all for them taking their genes off the pool but i dont understand why we gotta celebrate it. They run the risk of going too far and have become a drain on honest normal people.

>> No.18556473

>>18556469
>>18554277 (OP) #
>WHY WON’T WOKE BOYS PAY FOR SEX?
Bernie Bros, male feminists and ‘good guy’ liberals all support sex work, but for some reason they aren’t paying girls like me for sex

>Four months before Violet, a 25-year-old transsexual with dollish cheekbones and a primary color wardrobe, moved to Brooklyn, she toyed with the idea of holding “a farewell tour” in her lifelong home of Portland, Oregon. Her approach to putting a bow on her 20-plus years in a city mocked for its liberal leanings was to collide her two disparate worlds: her friend circle of Juul-puffing mulleted Bernie Bros with her recent professional foray into sucking cock for cash.

>“What if I put it out there that I’m available as a sex worker for people I know for highly discounted rates?”

>I feel like the process of institutionalizing harm reduction really took the faggotry and sluttiness out of it, which makes me so sad,” they said, “especially because we know that so much of harm reduction practices and theories came out of sex working communities, people who are chemically dependent, sick and disabled people, and communities of care made up of gay men of color and trans women of color.”

>Many of the staples of harm reduction came from the ingenuity of drug users. Strategies like heroin buyer’s clubs, “going slow,” safer consumption spaces, naloxone distribution and drug checking all continue to be refined by people who use degrees even in the shadow of criminalization. The “hammer,” a pipe for safer heroin use, was designed by Shilo Jama, a drug user organizer in Seattle, as Filter recently reported.

To Any members of the trans community here on 4chan. As a privileged white male i am way too disgusted by your subhuman degeneracy to even consider you using you as a disposable sexual object. But i am asking you to consider the offer, ill give you five bucks for the chance to call you a mentally ill faggot and spit on your face . after all cash is cash and the smack aint gonna pay for itself

>> No.18556477

>>18556348
Not that anon but am an AGPer who's "cracked" and will most likely try starting HRT in the near future.

It's not an addiction so much as it feels like a sexual orientation. I've had feelings that you could describe as AGP or dysphoric since before puberty. Don't know about the other anon but I never really got into porn and found it gross and I didn't get into anime heavily either. Also I've only been fapping once, occasionally twice a week for several years now and currently haven't fapped in like a month but still have it.

>> No.18556494

As a faithful Catholic I feel compelled to tell you all to fuck off. The Church has opposed the decoupling of sex and gender for more than 70 years now and we're not going to stop any time soon. The Church STILL teaches that gender theory is flat-out fales.

>> No.18556558

>>18555675
>Yes there is, you’re chatting shit mate.
No there isnt

>> No.18556563

>>18554278
There is, but it isn't nearly strong enough to indicate homosexuality is genetically determined. The best evidence points to homosexuality being a birth defect due to faulty fetal development.

>> No.18556578
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18556578

>>18552293
Ah yes, What is some science or theory i can read which can help me check my privilege and learn more about the awful plight the diverse and vibrant culture of these warm body politically correct victimhood unit NPCs i mean these most noble and progressive of creatures?

>> No.18556646

>>18556414
Im a poor sickly waif who cant help it. Lmao becoming perverted fromvwatching too much anime pornography isnt comparable to being on a wheelchair you crazy faggot

>> No.18556658

>>18552326
Blanchard is pseud shit. The TIC is good.

>> No.18556737

>>18556646
Dear god i fucking hate myself