/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18548384]

Is the Quran really a miracle? It's just a book lmao

[Anonymous No.18548403]

The miracle of the Quran was uncovered through computer analysis by Rashad Khalifa. The number 19 is the seal of authenticity that proves no man could have written the Quran

[Anonymous No.18548409]

>>18548384
ofc it's not a miracle, satan talked to muhammed in the cave and satan doesn't work miracles.

[Anonymous No.18548430]

Muhammad became aware of the fact that Christianity was spreading like wildfire and decided he could make his own religion too.

[Anonymous No.18548433]

>>18548384
The Arabs were poets and when Muhammad recited the Quran, Allah sent down a verse challenging them to create poetry like the Quran. They refused and decided to go to war instead, despite them offering Muhammad women and money to stop his preachings. The Arabic Quran is very easy to downplay nowadays but those people, who were well-acquainted with the language of the Quran, were said to have been hypnotized and awe-struck at its utter depth when Muhammad recited it, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.

[Anonymous No.18548437]

>>18548403
Is this a meme or something substantial?

[Anonymous No.18548441]

>>18548384
Why are all the western converts gingers? ffs

[Anonymous No.18548457]

>>18548433
>were said
According to witnesses but their story was told after they converted to Islam. Memory play tricks on the mind.

>>18548403
It has been proven that Moby Dick's code predicted events that are occuring only now.

[Anonymous No.18548461]

>>18548437
Bad Muslim apologists (so nearly all of them) will be like “THE PATTERNS BRO NO HUMAN COULD HAVE COME UP WITH THIS” even though it fundamentally doesn’t prove anything

[Anonymous No.18548463]

>>18548430
>>18548430
>became aware
He literally did everything a false prophet wouldn't do if he was merely clout-chasing. i.e. declaring war on Rome (imagine zimbabwe declaring war on America), full-on rejection of mainstream dogma like the crucifixion and the talmud, radical deconstruction of the world as having the worth of a dead goat, claiming miracles he couldn't have possibly gotten away with if there weren't any witnesses (imagine being a false prophet and thinking telling people that you split the moon will get them to convert. there were many witnesses to the splitting of the moon and thats why islam was flooded with converts) and so on and so forth

[Anonymous No.18548466]

>>18548433
The Quran is without a doubt eloquent, but does its eloquence prove it has a divine origin?
>Allah sent down a verse challenging them to create poetry like the Quran. They refused
What about Musaylima?
>>18548403
>The miracle of the Quran was uncovered through computer analysis by Rashad Khalifa
So nobody figured it out until now, but people were converting to Islam anyways?

[Anonymous No.18548484]

>>18548463
Shouldn't you be fucking your goats, Muhammad? They are lonely by now.

[Anonymous No.18548493]

>>18548463
>united a an entire peninsula of wealthy cities
>army of well-equipped and extremely motivated soldiers led by several gigachad generals
>fighting the weakened remnants of roman + proxy armies

Not to mention as Muhammad attains more political power he becomes less merciful to his enemies and more carnal, exactly as worldly people do.

[Anonymous No.18548494]

>>18548463
Rejecting something like the Crucifixion is exactly what a false prophet would do

[Anonymous No.18548503]

>>18548466
>does its eloquence prove it has a divine origin?
I'd argue so. The Prophet (saw) was unlettered, and nobody had ever heard him dabbling in poetry prior to his receiving the Quran (Allah says within it that if they had seen him reading or reciting poetry, they would've used this as proof he was merely a poet). Also the Quran was sent down over 23 years, yet there is not a single contradiction within it, nor are there any grammar mistakes (normally a poet would spend time editing his works in solitude. Muhammad, being a prophet, was constantly surrounded his obsessive followers, so much so that Allah sent down a verse telling them to leave his house after they finished eating because they would spend entire nights by his side). The language of the Quran is also incredibly simply and there are no complicated words so even children can understand it, which truly befits a book claiming to be from God, because it is universal in that sense.

[Anonymous No.18548506]

>>18548403
Yes, well done, Muhammad. Well done.

However...

[Anonymous No.18548521]

>>18548493
Have you read about the early Muslim wars? If you have, you'd know that they were severely under-classed and were constantly on the verge of losing yet God supported them against the mass armies of Mecca. Seriously, go read about it on wikipedia or something.

also he forgave anybody who accepted Islam :) even if they killed his family members. You know why? because he was not concerned about his own well-being, but about the message he was ordered to spread.

[Anonymous No.18548524]

>>18548503
How does this prove that the Quran is from God

[Anonymous No.18548526]

>>18548503
Must've been one eloquent Shaitan

[Anonymous No.18548545]

>>18548494
Actually, it isn't. Take your head out of the sand and look at the world as it is. You really think a false prophet, who wants to masquerade his religion as the true Abrahamic faith, would reject a staple theological event that was witnessed by countless people? instead of perhaps incorporating it or reconciling it with his own bastard faith?

[Anonymous No.18548557]

>>18548524
because something like the Quran could not have come out of the literary vacuum boonies that was pre-Islamic arabia. Not only that, it had to have come from someone who was incredibly well-read in the old and new testament, which Muhammad (saw) was not, whose illiteracy many orientalists have attested to as almost undeniable.

[Anonymous No.18548571]

>>18548545
Like he did? "He didn't die, but was only made to appear so". Blaspheming God by saying He is a deciever

[Anonymous No.18548639]

>>18548463
What a horrible take. Lets compare this to Joseph Smith, who both Christians and Muslims can agree was a nut.

>declaring war on Rome (imagine zimbabwe declaring war on America)
Joseph Smith declared war on the state of Missouri, ran for president, etc. - and the Arabs won, so was he even making a bad bet? Was Genghis Khan a prophet of God because he invaded China?

> full-on rejection of mainstream dogma like the crucifixion and the talmud, radical deconstruction of the world as having the worth of a dead goat
Joseph Smith denied the Trinity, the infallibility of scripture, claimed God was a man, etc. - radical new doctrine is a pretty common thing in new religions, were any of the teachings of Heavens Gate mainstream or conventional? How about Scientology?

>imagine being a false prophet and thinking telling people that you split the moon will get them to convert. there were many witnesses to the splitting of the moon and thats why islam was flooded with converts
Joseph Smith claimed he could drive out demons and heal the dying, people saw him do both and converted to Mormonism. People affiliated with him claimed they could see angels and enter into heaven to look around, and when he died Mormons claimed Brigham Young physically transformed into him as a sign of his prophetic status.

And all of this was only a few hundred years ago, not more than a thousand - should we all go become Mormons?

[Anonymous No.18548669]

>>18548557
Joseph Smith had no formal education and produced the Book of Mormon in a few months, where as it took Mohammed years to create the Quran, and Mormons have all the same little textual games as Muslims ("oh look, if we read this text in a super specific way and squint and ignore fuzzy bits, then we can find patterns" - you can do this with any book, look it up and you'll find tons of examples). You're retarded if you think illiteracy is a major hindrance to producing a complex text (or even a fully coherent one, which the Quran is not), think of Homer who was certainly not literate but synthesized a complex oral folk tradition into one coherent work which was only later written down. Mohammed did the same thing - all research today suggests that Monotheism was on the rise in Arabia BEFORE Mohammed, and not just Christianity and Judaism - he was merely a very clever man who reworked materiel he already would have encountered in his time into a more cohesive form.

[Anonymous No.18548696]

>>18548639
>declared war on the state of Missouri
lol. is this the same as Muhammad who, after taking care of the Meccans in a long bloody war, immediately sent a letter to the Roman Emperor telling him to obey him? subhanallah!
>Joseph smith denied the trinity
doctrinal reconstruction is one thing, but he did not dare reject the crucifixion.
>Joseph claimed he could drive out demons. People affiliated with him claimed they could see angels
I don't get how you think this is in any way comparable to Muhammad (saw) walking up to a nation of people who hated him and wanted to humiliate him, with followers who depended on him not messing up, and saying he SPLIT THE MOON. Also dont try to discredit the testimonial evidence for it, as infidel orientalists have attested to the science of hadith (oral transmission) as being the most sophisticated and extensive study of witness testimony ever created. In this sense, we have more authentic information about Muhammad (saw) than we do about Joseph Smith, whose life and sayings are without the scrutiny of hadith science.

[Anonymous No.18548740]

>>18548669
>Joseph Smith had no formal education and produced the Book of Mormon in a few months, where as it took Mohammed years to create the Quran
first of all, i'd like to clarify that the Quran, being sent down in singular and sometimes compact sets of verses is nothing like the creation of any book. It would have actually been easier for Muhammad (saw) to sit down and write the whole thing rather than release verses on the spot (when jews tested him with knowledge of the old testament because they knew he was illiterate and there werent any arabic copies of the Pentateuch just lying around) and also giving off prophecies (like the Roman victory of Persia which he predicted six-ten years after the fact) and legislation and commands that depended on it being consistently poetical.
>You're retarded if you think illiteracy is a major hindrance to producing a complex text
I never said that. Illiteracy is a major hindrance when you are presenting a tradition that lies on religious texts you can't read, and yet you correct them in places and tell them in several different ways despite not being able to study them.
>all research today suggests that Monotheism was on the rise in Arabia BEFORE Mohammed
i dont get how you think this proves anything lol. Muslims actually attest to the existence of monotheism within the history of the arabs, and that there were several people called hunafa who were monotheists who existed before Muhammad (saw).

[Anonymous No.18548767]

>>18548696
Are we really going to trust the word of Orientalists now?

[Anonymous No.18548798]

>>18548463
>Implying Muhammad did any of this

[Anonymous No.18548826]

>>18548463
>radical deconstruction of the world as having the worth of a dead goat

this isn't true at all for Islam

[Anonymous No.18548929]

>>18548384
physical qurans can't exist and resemble the ''eternal quran'' given Islamic theology and Allah's absolute transcendence.

[Anonymous No.18549035]

>>18548929
We're talking about the physical Quran, is it a miracle or not?

[Anonymous No.18550403]

Is the Quran a creature or is it eternal with God?

[Anonymous No.18550422]

>>18550403
>>18548929
Islam is refuted.

[Anonymous No.18550433]

>>18548929
>>18550422
>>18550403

[Anonymous No.18550461]

>>18550422
How is it exactly refuted? Are you that desperate?
I wanted to debate the Mutazila theology.

[Anonymous No.18550490]

how far would islam have spread if it weren't for Muhammad's best generals

[Anonymous No.18550491]

It can be a miracle when used correctly.

[Anonymous No.18550538]

>>18550490
It would never have gotten beyond the peninsula. Ibn Al-Walid is the true reason Islam spread, not Muhammad, not the Rashidun.

[Anonymous No.18550545]

>>18548441
german

[Anonymous No.18550555]

>>18548441
soul-searching

[Anonymous No.18550556]

>>18548503
The Quran has no literairy value and large parts of are gibberish.

[Anonymous No.18550559]

>>18548557
The Quran is neither great poetry, neither did is writer have a deep understanding of the Bible.

[Anonymous No.18550560]

>>18550490
>>18550491
>>18550538

[Anonymous No.18550562]

>>18550556
>>18550559

[Anonymous No.18550566]

>>18550562
The Quran has no literairy value, large parts of it are gibberish and the author knew almost nothing about the Christian religion.

[Anonymous No.18550569]

>>18550566

[Anonymous No.18550577]

Do religionfags really?

[Anonymous No.18550583]

>>18550569
Not even a Christian! Lol

Anyone who sees value in the Quran is either evil or brainwashed. The Quran is not literature.

[Anonymous No.18550591]

>>18550583
Did it not give values, meaning and purpose to who wanted it?

[Anonymous No.18550605]

>>18550583
atheists are just lazy christcucks

[Anonymous No.18551007]

>>18548503
As others have implied, if we accept your already sweeping claims concerning eloquence, this merely indicates that Muhammad was under the influence of a powerful force. How do you know that force was God?

[Anonymous No.18551026]

>>18548545
But that's exactly what he did seem to do... Jesus is still kept and honoured, but is relegated to a secondary role. He is still somehow the Messiah, yet, according to Muhammad, He did not die on the cross, was not God the Son, and fulfilled none of the Jewish expectations either. This is exactly what a false prophet might say to gain converts - he might well keep the old account in name only, retaining none of the aspects that actually make that account meaningful.

[Anonymous No.18551033]

>>18548557
>which Muhammad (saw) was not
Says who? How do you know the Quran wasn't authored by multiple Arabic gnostics who were more than familiar with the OT?

[Anonymous No.18551051]

>>18548557
>because something like the Quran could not have come out of the literary vacuum boonies that was pre-Islamic arabia
The fact that every single piece of pre-Islamic Arab literature we have is leagues better than the Quran demonstrates that no, the Quran is exactly what you'd expect some random warlord to come up with on the spot when he wanted to justify why everyone gets three wives except he gets unlimited, or why you're not allowed to bother him with smalltalk, or why the total amount of inheritance that a man has is over 100%.

[Anonymous No.18551063]

>>18551033
There’s no gnostic shit in the quran christcuck. (unlike the bible)

[Anonymous No.18551079]

>>18551063
>Jesus giving life to a clay pigeon
>the Trinity being comprised of Jesus, Moses and Mary
>a palm tree shading Mary as she gives birth
>the sun setting into a mud puddle around which a certain race of man lives
>there being multiple heavens
...and that's just five examples off the top of my head. You have no idea what you're talking about if you think the Quran isn't filled with Gnostic references. As other anons have pointed out, the most up to date research shows that Arabia was already largely monotheistic before the rise of Islam. It would not surprise me at all if the authors of the Quran turned out to be a group of Arab intellectuals who were originally Christian Gnostics (or at least Gnostic adjacent).

[Anonymous No.18551092]

>>18551063
If there were Gnostic elements in the Bible then, by definition, they would be canonical rather than Gnostic. Please don't use terms you clearly don't understand.

[Anonymous No.18551104]

>>18551092
nice cope lol

[Anonymous No.18551116]

>>18551104
Using words incorrectly only proves that you're illiterate, anon.

[Anonymous No.18551131]

>>18551116
keep coping...

[Anonymous No.18551170]

Christianity is the only religion.

[Anonymous No.18551828]

>>18548403
>COMPUTER ANALYSIS

[Anonymous No.18551850]

>>18551170
Islam is the only true denomination of Christianity

[Anonymous No.18551961]

>>18551828
http://libgen.gs/item/index.php?md5=458A62608D21B370EF68FC83DFA320DE

[Anonymous No.18552031]

[Anonymous No.18552040]

>>18548384
>the quran really is a miracle, innit?

[Anonymous No.18552093]

>>18548409
Based
Piss be on Him

[Anonymous No.18552148]

>>18548403
>>18548463
>>18548521
>>18550433
>>18550560
>>18550562
>>18550569
>>18550605
>>18551063
You will always be inbred
Muhammad will forever burn in hell

[Anonymous No.18552166]

>>18552031
Thanks anon, personally I read al-Baraq and couldn't keep my eyes open it was so boring and badly written. I think Arabs must simply be suffering under the delusion that repetitiveness is the same as rhyme.

[tourist No.18552237]

>>18550555
beautiful comment