/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18510918]

Was Yang's mistake that self-driving cars becoming mainstream enough to wipe out truck driving jobs are more like 20-30 years away instead of 5-10 years away? Most people don't seem to think of it as an urgent issue.
>tfw no NEETbux

[Anonymous No.18511203]

>>18510918
Yang's mistake was being asian sadly. If this message had come from a white male it would have been twice as effective.

[Anonymous No.18511227]

>>18511203
Twice zero is still zero. The guy has nothing but 1 talking point.

[Anonymous No.18511770]

Most of the technology he is talking about probably could already be implemented but bureucratism and general inertia will delay this far later than it has to be.
Shame he wanted to tackle an issue before it properly congealed instead of trying to fix and mend the issue once it has already done all the damage.
>>18511203
>Yang's mistake was being asian sadly.
Unironically. Sorry to tell you, hapa bros, but no one takes chinks seriously.

[Anonymous No.18511819]

His problem was taking tech bro talking points and then trying to make them appealing to normies rather than taking normie problems as his starting point.

[Anonymous No.18511822]

neolib stemfag jewish golem technocrat midwit

[Anonymous No.18512183]

>>18511227
It's still a sadly under-discussed talking point.
Too bad it came from him

[Anonymous No.18512207]

>>18512183
I am 90% sure that the only reason Yang goes so hard for neetbux is because his son is severely autistic, and he's worried that his son will never be able to get a job. Thus he's working to make UBI reality so that he knows when he's dead, his son will be taken care of

[Anonymous No.18512271]

It turns out that big business is lethargic and doesn't want to cause immediate social upheaval by going full speed on automation.
The tech is already here though. I think a lot of white collar work is going to get completely destroyed in the next ten years. Maybe once the damage is done Yang will see a political boost.

>>18512207
I'm pretty sure he has enough to leave his son with a decent trust fund.

[Anonymous No.18512276]

>>18512271
Does he though? He dropped out of law school, did a few years of entrepreneural work, and theoretically his campaign money can't go into his personal bank account

[Anonymous No.18512354]

>>18512276
I thought he ran some sort of investor fund for startups. There has to be decent money in that.

[Anonymous No.18512439]

>>18510918
retroactively refuted by David Graeber

[Anonymous No.18512449]

>>18512276
he didn't drop out, just left a high paying job to do nonprofit work
plus his campaign was partly a marketing stunt for the book

[Anonymous No.18512455]

UBI doesnt work you retarded leftists

[Anonymous No.18512460]

>>18510918
>Most people don't seem to think of it as an urgent issue
Most people never think of anything until it bites them in the ass
Then they blame niggers
At least when our habitat collapses, we'll be rid of morons with nothing but opinions

[Anonymous No.18512542]

>>18512455
It will once we reach post-scarcity, but it would be better to start planning for it now.
If you refuse abudance for everyone and chose starvation and a life privation for most on ideological ground, you're just a retard.

[Anonymous No.18512545]

test

[Anonymous No.18512673]

>>18512455
but i want freestuff
it might solve the underclass problem too or will they just spend their UBI on the latest sneakers and noisy cars or whatever and then still commit crimes

[Anonymous No.18512684]

>>18511822
Tasty salad

[Anonymous No.18512753]

>>18510918
No because self driving trucks will exist in probably less than five years
His mistake was taking these as reasons for positivity. Any politician that doesn’t acknowledge the primary crisis faced by Americans today is unironic dehumanization is a liar and doomed to fail.

[Anonymous No.18512772]

>>18512753
>No because self driving trucks will exist in probably less than five years
Nigga, we don't even have self-driving trains and airplanes, even though the technical problems have been solved for decades.

Don't hold your breath.

[Anonymous No.18512780]

>>18510918
They'll just get jobs fixing the self driving trucks :)

[Anonymous No.18512870]

self-driving trucks just take jobs americans don't want

[Anonymous No.18512908]

>>18512455
UBI isn't really a "leftist" position... unless you mean some sort of vague do-gooder sentiment (but most "rightists" would claim they have the same sentiments but are just more "realistic"). The whole idea of giving individuals money and letting them act as independent agents in a market is the central premise of society right now, it's totally in line with the history of liberalism. Leftism is antagonistic to the idea of markets.

>>18512542
>post-scarcity
Why would you need to play games with pseudo-markets then?

[Anonymous No.18513644]

>>18512449
>>18512354
None of that sounds like that would generate enough of an income to make a yuge trust fund for his retarded son. Sure, if he did it for a long time but he only did that for 5-10 years

[Anonymous No.18513655]

>>18512673
I remember that when the stimulus checks came out, crime dropped, at least temporarily. Now that there are no more checks, crime has increased

[Anonymous No.18513812]

>>18512780
ok boomer

[Anonymous No.18513919]

>>18510918
His flaw was being too honest and willing to admit that democracy is a complete sham in which corrupt officials buy your vote through bribery. His whole campaign rested on 'I will give you $1000 a month for life if you vote for me' dressed up in soi reddit technocrat clothing. It failed because he's a literal who and it was too blatant.

[Anonymous No.18513939]

>>18511770
>Most of the technology he is talking about probably could already be implemented
Fuck no. You have no idea what you’re talking about. AI is nowhere near what most people believe (and will probably never get there).

[Anonymous No.18513993]

>>18513939
The test facilites of BMW here in munich are fantastic, the factories are already filled with robots, automatic or at least AI guided transportation exists in every form at least in different palces, medicinal insight and overreach technology already exists and is employed.
Main thing is that it is not all collected, too often still more expensive than highering some immigrant wagie, and the governmental efforts to implement the changes do not exist.
If the US government had China's, american society would be incredibly automated and so far ahead of the rest of the world. (at least the silicon cities).

[Anonymous No.18515120]

>>18513655
Well even poor peple like to eat, especially in fatmerica.

[Anonymous No.18515136]

>>18513939
https://www.ted.com/talks/the_ted_interview_sam_harris_on_using_reason_to_build_our_morality
You might want to listen to this pal, and a lot of other interviews from the leader of the field.
Look at what deep mind and open ai accomplished the last few years, and you will see that actual agi is probably not that fat.

[Anonymous No.18515167]

>>18513919
This. He should have said "I will give a $1000 dollars a day for life to bankers and multi-millionaires", then he would have been enthusiastically carried into office by the American public.

[Anonymous No.18515209]

>>18510918
People don't want free money, they want a place in society. Who are you as a man if you buy your gf dinner with the same $1000 / month handout she's getting? Nobody and she knows it. UBI is a contemptuous humiliation of those whose livelihood was sold overseas. If Yang wanted votes he would take those UBI trillions and subsidize companies to get Americans making stuff and put the shell-shocked pill popping working class back in play.

[Anonymous No.18515225]

>>18512183
UBI sucks retard

[Anonymous No.18515238]

>>18515209
you're grossly underestimating how much people like free money

[Anonymous No.18515244]

>>18515238
I apologize, President Yang

[Anonymous No.18515271]

>>18515244
:(

[Anonymous No.18515282]

>>18512439
https://www.economist.com/business/2021/06/05/why-the-bullshit-jobs-thesis-may-be-well-bullshit

[Anonymous No.18515294]

>>18512908
>UBI isn't really a "leftist" position...
Sure anon. Giving people enough money to live on regardless of what they do and then taxing those who do work out the ass to pay for the freeloaders (i.e. the majority) is definitely a liberal and market-driven policy.

[Anonymous No.18515304]

>>18513993
Car factories have been automated for decades. You fucks would think tractors would lead to the end of civilization.

[Anonymous No.18515317]

remember ”MATH” lol

[Anonymous No.18515331]

>>18515304
My father visited a car factory when he was in college, and even then they had machines doing labor

[Anonymous No.18515394]

>>18510918
Andrew Yang is a troll and needs to be killed, he wants nothing short of the destruction of the United States.

[Anonymous No.18516069]

>>18512455
This. Just look at all the lazy fucks sitting getting unemployment or all the people who shit out kids they don't care about just to get money for Pabst Blue Ribbon. Handing people money won't make them be smart with it.

I bought into the Yang shit in 2019 and I'm embarrassed about it still.

>>18512780
This is like an argument for self-checkouts taking over regular check stands. 1 employee can man a set of 10 self checkout stands, so where do the other 9 go? Yes, we will always need people to watch over the machines but it still reduces the amount of working hands and creates a job shortage + the idea that everybody needs a degree to work (particularly for the growing I.T. field). This is stupid because academia is writhing with retards and a giant waste of time and money (especially when people should be starting families at the age they bury themselves in college work).
We need manufacturing and low-level jobs for the everyman, but our boomer predecessors shipped all those out to China and India for a quick buck.

>>18515120
Mericans wouldn't have so much weight issue if our food wasn't filled with high-fructose corn syrup and our public education wasn't run by knuckle-draggers and full of niggers and spics.

[Anonymous No.18516175]

>>18516069
I agree with all of your points but it does raise the question: what're we going to do with a few hundred million unskilled, useless, hungry people? If the answer never moves past "fuck those lazy poors, I've got mine," they're eventually going to kill us.
I would also argue that a deceptively large portion of the white collar workers who are actually "employed" are themselves already lazy welfare queens in denial, they're just not getting theirs from the state. What value or utility is produced by the average office drone? Virtually none - he's just a remora.
I disagree with Yang on a lot of shit but I would've voted for him if I could've because he's literally the only candidate from either party that looked far enough ahead to recognize any of this. Everybody else was perfectly content to just keep doing the same retarded clown shit, and still is, and apparently will be forever.

[Anonymous No.18516908]

>>18516175
So your solution is to have instead of few hundred million unskilled, useless, hungry people, it's the same thing but they're not hungry

[Anonymous No.18517115]

>>18516908
When did I say anything about solutions? I don't have one, and Yang's admittedly is just a temporary bandaid. My point is that every single other person in contemporary American politics would rather just pretend none of these problems even exist in the first place. If Yang was nominated on a ticket and got up in front of the country bringing it up, they'd have a much harder time and look even more ridiculous as they desperately try to pretend it's not happening.

[Anonymous No.18517149]

>>18516175
>If the answer never moves past "fuck those lazy poors, I've got mine," they're eventually going to kill us.

I'm not him, but this just makes me grin like a demon. I want the entire West to burn. I am a reactionary and I hate, I despise, liberal democracy, and I hate, and despise, modern neoliberal capitalism. I have largely abandoned any hope of a peaceful solution to the wickedness of global capitalism and neoliberalism. So I would love, I would adore, great violence.

I want to shove that faggot Francis Fukuyama's book down his throat. I want history to start up again. I'm tired of the end of history. I want the "conclusion of history" to be brought to an end, even if it takes immense violence and killing.

So I love the idea of mass upheaval, mass revolt, and mass death. I love the idea of New York, London, and Paris being actively burned to the ground. We'll establish something better in their ruins. Just as the great Christian kingdoms rose in Europe after the collapse of Rome in the West.

[Anonymous No.18517190]

>>18516069
>Yes, we will always need people to watch over the machines but it still reduces the amount of working hands and creates a job shortage
He says while the US is in a period of record low unemployment. Demoralised.

>No new industries will ever be created!
>Reducing overheads will never free up capital to create other jobs!

[Anonymous No.18517193]

>>18517149
Maybe you should try getting a job.

[Anonymous No.18517200]

>>18512455
ubi isnt a leftist position retard>>18512460

[Anonymous No.18517212]

Won't life be like the Jetsons, where everyone has a lot of money and they can have a bullshit easy office job just for human sanity? The United Arab Emirates does the same thing. Every UAE citizen has a guarenteed job but it pays like $120,000 per year (due to oil money) and you only have to work 3 hours a week, if even that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUIkUg0e-P8

[Anonymous No.18517239]

>>18517190
what world do you live in

[Anonymous No.18517249]

>>18517193
Maybe you lack ambition.

[Anonymous No.18517277]

>>18517249
based

[Anonymous No.18517305]

>>18516069
>>18516175
Wang Huning's America Against America deals with this problem a lot. Basically his main concern, which comes up throughout the book, is how can the state effectively organize millions (or billions) of people. Without organizing them they'll turn to crime or generally reject a society that has no place for them, but if the state attempts to play the main role of directing peoples lives then it will inevitably become over-extended, paternalistic, totalitarian, and so on, and this has always resulted in creating some form of stalinist hell.

What he believed is that corporations, ethnic organizations, labour unions, and so on could play the roll of organizing people on behalf of the state, while the state itself indirectly influences peoples behavior through monetary policy (also his theory of money is basically anything that can be set as a value of exchange for allowing people to access goods and services, so in a sense the Chinese social credit system is itself a form of currency which directs rational consumer behavior towards good citizenship.

Of course a social credit system would go against everything that Western civilization stands for... but, its not impossible to consider the establishment of city states, ethnic organizations, trade unions, and the like as a way of organizing and regimenting peoples lives while giving them a sense of belonging and meaning. I think that one of the biggest issues today is biopolitics in the form of mass migration and the effects that has on communities (both provoking racist backlash and also emergent ideologies at odds with Western values), and a solution I've been considering is that by creating a sort of city-state system where a certain area of land containing several thousand (or hundred thousand for big cities) parcels is allocated as a separate economy that can only be bought and sold by people holding special citizenship status for that specific town. That way transients, foreigners, even rich people in the city, can't just move in and completely gentrify areas while pushing the locals out. Inevitably it will become much cheaper for people to stay in the town they were born in, which means deeper roots, which means more civic engagement and a greater sense of historical existence. Both of these things promote safer communities and more decentralized social safety nets which can help people.

I sent an email to my country's government about these issues but they ignored me and now they're printing a couple more billion dollars to give as "grants" to their friends and political supporters. The West is fucked desu, so I've got to side with >>18517149 here.

[Anonymous No.18517308]

>>18517190
>capital's purpose is to create jobs
wat

[Anonymous No.18517312]

>>18516175
>they're just not getting theirs from the state
Increasingly they are. I've worked for several stores where their only substantial source of revenue was in the form of government grants. A frightening portion of the economy is just the government paying the super wealthy to keep the working class occupied in low-skill jobs.

[Anonymous No.18517313]

>>18515209
gas the boomers

[Anonymous No.18517319]

>>18517305
it would lead to the same problems that sunk athens and sparta. some cities will founder through no fault of their own (disaster, war, changing climate) and then the refugees will inevitably end up becoming an underclass in the successful cities until there are enough of them to topple the landed citizens. and the citizens will bring them because of greed

[Anonymous No.18517325]

>>18517308
>Companies never use money to make more money
>What is opportunity cost
>What are overheads
Some of you seem to be arguing for a world of infinite overheads. Maybe we should all go out and break windows to create more jobs for the glass industry.

[Anonymous No.18517335]

>>18517239
Pre-covid unemployment was some of the lowest in US history and current unemployment levels are plummeting back to those levels again.

People have been banging the automation-no-jobs drum for decades and have been continually wrong. It's like Communists claiming it'll work this time despite mountains of evidence against it.

[Anonymous No.18517338]

>>18517325
i was just taking exception to the idea that capital is accumulated to create jobs, instead of being accumulated for the purpose of accumulating more capital. sometimes jobs result from it, but the anon i was responding to needs to lose the job creators malarkey

[Anonymous No.18517343]

>>18517319
Maybe so, but in the mean time look at the kind of societies birthed by Athens and Sparta. That level of political realization among the people, that active interest in the arts and philosophy, that high level of individualization within the polis. Everything falls eventually, but if we can have 300 years of Athenian society in the meantime that's not exactly a bad thing.

Or you could just make it so citizenship is automatic after living in a place for X amount of years, lets say twenty. Baring some cataclysmic event the city could just gradually absorb newcomers while the economic restrictions (Y thousand parcels with a limit on how many parcels any one family can own and an artificial monopoly to prevent speculatory inflation driving up prices beyond what locals can afford) will prevent runaway gentrification from destroying small towns.

[Anonymous No.18517358]

>>18517335
Idk about you but most people I know in my age range (mid-20s) have just dropped out of the job market entirely and aren't even searching due to the disruptions from COVID.

[Anonymous No.18517382]

>>18517358
what are they doing?

[Anonymous No.18517383]

>>18510918
Fuck mods

[Anonymous No.18517395]

>>18517382
Crack mostly.

[Anonymous No.18517412]

>>18517335
>record
>some of
>plummeting back
you write like a politician.
it's also very easy to see that many jobs, even industries have already been wiped by automation and also that an increasing portion of jobs are going to people doing the automating.

[Anonymous No.18517457]

>>18517412
by your logic, we should have massive unemployment as the drivers of horse and buggie, horse trainers, horse food makers and distributers, carriage makers, carriage repairmen all lost their jobs

[Anonymous No.18517585]

>>18517457
I don't see that many horses in active employment these days, do you?

[Anonymous No.18517622]

>>18517412
>The jobs will disappear this time, trust me bro

[Anonymous No.18517631]

>>18517305
>>18517343
Ultimately I have become a reactionary and a hater of democracy, not because I have some aesthetic reason or moral reason but simply out of despair of anything else being functional over long timeframes.

I feel like it was very logical to be a Jacobin in 1789, and it was very logical to be a Bolshevik in 1917. Back then, everything was fresh and new. The aristocracy, the monarchy, the tsardom, the Church in both West and East, it all seemed old and stale, and it seemed to be actively contributing to human misery. It seemed that you could push, and overthrow, and be violent, and create a genuinely better world, a world where there was broad prosperity, where there was no poverty and no man wanted for bread and a roof. A dream of a better world, a utopia in this life.

But being historically aware has made me a deep pessimist about progress and things getting better. Especially because it seems like literally everything that has materially contributed to the advancement of humanity in the last 250 years has nothing to do with politics or economics. It's all science, technology, and health care. What the fuck does Marxism have to do with people not dying of disease? That's all sanitation, medical science, and vaccines. What the fuck does liberalism have to do with so many people living in comfort these days? That's all air conditioning, indoor plumbing, internal combusion, and electric lighting. That's raw science and raw technology, and it can exist just as well in an authoritiarian or aristocratic system of government. You don't need liberalism or Marxism to make people more comfortable or to advance science. And so what exactly are liberalism and Marxism actually good for?

I have become fascinated with states that last. States that endure. And these so often seem to be monarchies and aristocracies. Venice lasted a thousand years. Rome lasted until the Ottomans took it in 1453, which was more than 3000 years. The Ottomans lasted centuries. The French monarchy lasted centuries.

Historical awareness compels me to be disdainful of liberalism and democracy and to favor aristocracy, monarchy, and hierarchy, since these seem to be stable states, that allow for the flourishing of both individuals and families. Democracy is bad, it's too chaotic and prone to disorder and despotism. Fuck, Plato teaches us that, all those years ago in the Republic.

[Anonymous No.18517637]

>>18517631
>it was very logical to be a Bolshevik in 1917
hmm I wonder who could be behind this post

[Anonymous No.18517667]

>>18517637
kek

[Anonymous No.18517682]

>>18517631
>You don't need liberalism or Marxism to make people more comfortable or to advance science. And so what exactly are liberalism and Marxism actually good for?
I'm more of a Platonist than a democrat myself, but I think that the difference between systems is the kind of individuals it creates. Democracies have a tendency towards mobs, groupthink, hysteria, but they also create men who are more cunning, agile, and free. When I think of why Communism is bad, I think of Stalin forcing his subordinates to literally send their own family members to the gulag in order to create a class of gutless sniveling wimps who would serve him. You mention the Ottomans, but their government was one built on castration and fratricide. Meanwhile you have some civilizations like the early Islamic Caliphate that built their society on abstinence, fasting, philosophy, and fear of God-- leading to a Golden Age that, while it might not have been the longest lasting, was more beautiful than anything produced since then.

We can look at the great men of the British Empire, the Robert Clives and Laurence of Arabias, but the great irony is that all these men, these colonial heroes who charmed foreign lands with their manly virtue and steadfast bravery, were men who had to flee Britain in order to achieve any sort of greatness. Certainly there was something in British Society that produced this vital spark, but there was also something in British Society that smothered it so long as you stayed on the Isle.

Who are the great men of history, and what kind of society produces them? Usually this is aristocracies with a weak central power. The mixture of vigorous competition and rigid hierarchies seems to produce a class of men to who fly above the mass of humanity like an Eagle. I'd give a thousand years of servitude for one Alcibiades myself.

[Anonymous No.18517688]

>>18517631
You generally have a decent point, but I'd argue that liberalism and Marxism are outgrowths of that scientific advancement rather than causes of it.

[Anonymous No.18517697]

>>18517585
kek

>>18517457
yes, all of those workers were no longer employed in those jobs after the invention of the car. The difference now is that no one needs to sit in the driver's seat, or repair the car, or produce the car, or eventually even maintain the machines that do those things.

[Anonymous No.18517759]

>>18517631
>What the fuck does liberalism have to do with so many people living in comfort these days?
It gave people the freedom to engage in scientific pursuit and economic activity without the state fucking them around (too much).

[Anonymous No.18517813]

>>18515294
who is milton freidman. you can argue for UBI as a capitalist. It (hypothetically) reduces poverty, which reduces crime, which helps business. It also makes it easier for employees to move between jobs (less risk), and businesses can hire+fire knowing they're not putting peoples livelihoods at risk. you could argue that people can quit and reskill. There's a tonne of pro-capitalist reasons.

[Anonymous No.18517838]

>>18517813
Friedman argued for a negative income tax which is a different policy you disingenuous hack.

[Anonymous No.18517881]

>>18515304
>>18515331
are you people retarded?
most the time when people talk about AI taking jobs, they jsut mean the rote exercise robot at the factory.
The "AI" driving should have been proven to you enough already through companies like tesla.
All this shit as mundane as the AI robot overtake army will be still has a huge effect on people being forced out of the work force (the more financially sound it becomes).

That's Yang's whole point plus retraining these people does not work. You absolute morons, we will get fancier soda machines working coffee shops but not your cringe sci-fi humanoid ai robot.

[Anonymous No.18517927]

>>18517881
>most the time when people talk about AI taking jobs, they jsut mean the rote exercise robot at the factory.
And, as I said, that has already happened decades ago and society adapted.

> a huge effect on people being forced out of the work force
I'm sorry for your loss. There's plenty of jobs at Maccy D's.

[Anonymous No.18517942]

>>18517927
>has already happened decades ago and society adapted.
why do you post in threads you know nothing about then?
Yang addresses this new wave of machine or robotic take over as simple a new wave of what has happened before, jsut that it will be larger than previous ones and have greater impact.
THE WHOLE POINT YOU IMBECILE NIGGER is that we have to deal with this like attempts were made to deal with the previous waves. YOU NIGGER HE IS CHAMPIONING FOR ADAPTING TO IT.
>There's plenty of jobs at Maccy D's.
retard doesnt know fast food places employed new technology to replace workers recently and will continue to do so.

You are an absolute imbeciel faggot, who personifies everything wrong with this baord.
You have no idea what you are talking about, because you have neither read the book nor actually read about the relevant topic. yet you spout your nigger opinion like any reddit faggot would.

Kys tranny.

[Anonymous No.18517953]

>>18517942
so what exactly will have such a big impact?

> (some) truckers lose jobs
> (some) cashiers lose jobs
> ??????

[Anonymous No.18517989]

>>18517942
>Society won't adapt this time. Skynet is coming.
lol
>You are an absolute imbeciel [sic] faggot, who personifies everything wrong with this baord. [sic]
Stay mad poorfag. I have a PhD and work on cutting edge electronics. I've got mine.

[Anonymous No.18517994]

>>18517838
what's the difference?

[Anonymous No.18518004]

>>18517953
>me) truckers lose jobs
>> (some) cashiers lose jobs
thats millions of low class disenfranchised people.
If you think thats nothing you are an idiot and or have never read a history book.
>18517989
you are so cringe, and most definitely projecting this "poorfag" thing. I never said I was an effected person nor that this was not a malleable situation.
For a """""""""""PhD""""""""""" guy you sure are retarded; but then again most STEM PhDs are not intelligent in the accurate description of the word.

[Anonymous No.18518012]

>>18510918
I hate futurists, they're delusional.

[Anonymous No.18518022]

>>18518012
futurists are artists.
Yang is not a futurist.

[Anonymous No.18518026]

>>18510918
Kek isn’t ubi impossibly expensive to implement? It is too expensive here in the UK anyway

[Anonymous No.18518035]

>>18517881
>>18517927
Neither of you understand machine learning. Its not that rote factory tasks will get automated, they already have for the most part, it's that 90% of white collar office work is going to be replaced with an inexpensive computer program. Things like translators, doctors, analysts, and even a lot of content creators are going to be rendered completely superfluous.

The only reason this hasn't hit yet is that these industries are mostly full of dinosaur baby boomers. I've used machine translation to translate three different novellas in the past six months, from languages I don't even speak. It used to take years, decades sometimes, to produce decent translations of foreign literature. Now it can be done in seconds if you have the right hardware. Yet there are people right now spending tens of thousands of dollars and years of their life to major in "translation studies"-- what do you think is going to happen to them when they graduate?
>there will be new jobs
Not necessarily. And even if they are, what kind of economy is it where people switch jobs ever couple of years. Structurally we aren't in a place for that either, since nobody can just drop everything and spend four years in school EVERY SINGLE TIME their job becomes automated. Whats needed is deep structural changes to our current economy and also deep philosophical vision about what it means to be a member of society, neither of which is offered by current Western politicians.
The AI revolution thats happening right now is fundamentally different than the automation of the past, since it isn't rote automation, it's machines which are capable of learning and improving almost any skill you can think of to a point that exceeds human ability.

[Anonymous No.18518063]

>>18517149
>I'm not him, but this just makes me grin like a demon. I want the entire West to burn. I am a reactionary and I hate, I despise, liberal democracy, and I hate, and despise, modern neoliberal capitalism. I have largely abandoned any hope of a peaceful solution to the wickedness of global capitalism and neoliberalism. So I would love, I would adore, great violence.
based ngl

[Anonymous No.18518080]

>>18518035
> ve used machine translation to translate three different novellas in the past six months, from languages I don't even speak. It used to take years, decades sometimes, to produce decent translations of foreign literature.
Wow, that's so cool! The Scots Wikipedia was made the same way and it's a wild success

[Anonymous No.18518092]

>>18518035
>Things like translators, doctors, analysts,
those are rote exercises.
if something is replacable through machine then it is a rote task. chinese room yada yada anglo kikery...
>and even a lot of content creators
not sure what you mean. Maybe you have a myopic understanding of entertainment's essence and mean different aspects of entertainment.
>ent economy and also deep philosophical vision about what it means to be a member of society, neither of which is offered by current Western politicians.
no country does that. best we get is the east asian: "be docile and bend to the government's and the economy's will"
>it's machines which are capable of learning and improving almost any skill you can think of to a point that exceeds human ability.
programmers overestimating their goals by conflating terminology once again, because they are trained monkeys and dont actually know how to think outside of a given source code.

[Anonymous No.18518096]

>>18518035
>I've used machine translation to translate three different novellas in the past six months, from languages I don't even speak.
Clearly you're in a position to assess whether the translation was good. AI is notoriously great at taking cultural context and subtext into account.

[Anonymous No.18518102]

>>18518092
I've studied informatics and what that anon is talking about is decision trees helping doctors choose which antibiotic to prescribe or diagnosis a patient. By no means is it anything close to making doctors unemployed. If anything, it's created a giant multi-billion industry of bioinformatics, which is half composed of doctors and half of regular researchers, not to mention all the regular grunts they employ

[Anonymous No.18518111]

>>18518080
the sad part about that is that the machine learning people used the Scots Wikipedia dataset to train their dictionaries. So now all the major Scots dictionaries, which used muh AI instead of experts, are very very wrong and their dictionaries are worthless

[Anonymous No.18518120]

>>18518102
>By no means is it anything close to making doctors unemployed. If anything, it's created a giant multi-billion industry of bioinformatics, which
typically the dilettantes' discussion examples on doctors is in respect to radiology, surgery and your decision tree. Whatever this implies who gets fired or what quality training will be necessary to assist these programms.... ?
>it's created a giant multi-billion industry of bioinformatics, which is half composed of doctors and half of regular researchers, not to mention all the regular grunts they employ
that's yangs whole point. if we embrace this change in technological ability we can have newer and (often) better jobs, but we have to tackle the problem head on and be prepared.

[Anonymous No.18518128]

>>18518120
> everyone going to be unemployed DOOOM
> but also everyone going to be employed in new and changing industries DOOOM
you're a schizo retard

[Anonymous No.18518138]

>18518128
not what I said. stay retarded faggot.

[Anonymous No.18518154]

>>18518138
Says the guy who can't figure out how to use the reply function. But I'm so sure you're secretly smart, tell us why people getting retrained into better paying new industries is a problem that we need to solve. More UBI yeah that's what we need

[Anonymous No.18518181]

>18518154
>who can't figure out how to use the reply function
gave me a properly laugh there with that one.

[Anonymous No.18518217]

>>18518080
The engine on my car got flooded the other day, so I guess all cars are useless too huh? Of course there are going to be failures in implementing this technology, but the tech itself is going to change things in a fundamental way.

>>18518092
>those are rote exercises.
Neural networks aren't executing rote computer code. They're taking data sets and building structural pathways to solve problems in ways that humans aren't even capable of understanding. It's not rote at all.

>not sure what you mean. Maybe you have a myopic understanding of entertainment's essence and mean different aspects of entertainment.
I think you seriously overestimate the average pop song if you think it can't be auto-generated.

>no country does that. best we get is the east asian: "be docile and bend to the government's and the economy's will"
China is actually coming up with interesting solutions, if you read what their high level thinkers are talking about and working on... something you can do now thanks to AI translation software.

> programmers overestimating their goals by conflating terminology once again
This has already happened in multiple domains. Chess, for example, has entered the stage where a deep learning machine program has taught itself novel strategies and beaten top ranked players in the world.

>>18518096
I speak 3 languages fluently, understand 5 decently, and have tested this out with essays and articles I can read as well The translation isn't that good, but its getting better at a rapid rate, and is far far far more efficient than using a human being.

>>18518102
I'm not talking about decision trees at all. I'm talking about neural networks, which are a novel approach to programming that goes around traditional algorithmic methods. If you can feed a neural network a data set of millions of photos of eyes, for example, and train it to recognize early symptoms of cataracts, you can effectively put many clinics out of business by eliminating the usefulness of regular exams and checkups.

[Anonymous No.18518236]

>>18518154
>tell us why people getting retrained into better paying new industries
Five computer programmers making $200 an hour automating the jobs of tens of thousands of people who make $15 an hour doesn't mean that society is magically becoming a better place, even if those new and exciting programming jobs pay ridiculously well.
I don't think UBI is a solution, but this is a serious structural issue that needs to be solved and at least Yang is trying to solve it /before/ it becomes an issue. Meanwhile people like you want to stick their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine because its hard to understand the technological changes that are happening right now.

[Anonymous No.18518244]

>>18517989
Riiight, you have a phd, how convenient.

[Anonymous No.18518321]

>>18518217
>Chess, for example, has entered the stage where a deep learning machine program has taught itself novel strategies and beaten top ranked players in the world.
yeah I watched that documentary. It basically came down to working percentages to gain advantages with likelihoods of a play being made against each other.
It is a pathetic example for machine learning because it would still lose when the human player made an "unpredictable" move.
>I think you seriously overestimate the average pop song if you think it can't be auto-generated.
read Walter Benjamins "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction"
Yes pop songs in the wikipedia definition can be automated away, but they will lack "aura"; a term benjamin develops to show that technologically reproduced art fails to be art and as real as the original because it lacks aura.
same obviously also goes for literature. Heideggers Ge-stell would be an interesting point of discussion in this context imo.

[Anonymous No.18518325]

>>18518244
Cope brainlet

[Anonymous No.18518352]

>>18518217
That's the same principle of a decision tree. An algorithm can guide a doctor but you still need a doctor to confirm any diagnosis. No one (smart) is going to rely solely on machine learning outputs.

>>18518236
The 5 programmers are making a product that's going to need lots of people to deploy it, get hired into new industries that result from whatever innovations they make. You think before informatics we needed to hire an army of postdocs or IT running computer labs?
> Oh no they've invented this thing called a train, which can transport goods much faster than oxen or camels
> One train conductor and 20 people hauling coal replace 9001 people taking care of ox and donkeys and shit
> Won't this new development expand other related indust--
> UBI now!!!

[Anonymous No.18518358]

People have been talking about how jobs will be completely automated since the 80s but that have yet to happen. Techbros vastly overestimate just how developed and reliable their algorithms actually are. I remember around 13 years ago people kept telling me how in 10 years cars would be completely automated, how truckers and taxi drivers would be made obsolete and if you showed doubt they would call you a luddite. Now more than 10 years later that still hasn't happened, automated cars still struggle to drive outside of specific developed cities and highways and don't know how to handle ice for example. A lot of this tech optimism is actually just businessmen trying to sell far out ideas to investors.

[Anonymous No.18518363]

>>18515209
Those factory jobs are never coming back

[Anonymous No.18518370]

>>18512684
cope

[Anonymous No.18518383]

>>18518358
>Face it. The Japanese will own most of this country by the end of the '90s

[Anonymous No.18518389]

>>18518358
There was an Asian Tesla fanboy in San Francisco, I think, who literally died because he trusted the autopilot so much. His anti Musk h8er friends told him that the driving algorithm couldn't recognize this concrete barrier on a part of a highway, but he loved Elon so much that he let the autopilot take over on that stretch of the highway, just to show his friends how wrong they were. He left behind a wife and two kids, iirc. At least with a doctor, they can say, hmmm, the computer says you may have glaucoma but I disagree, I think it's x disease.

[Anonymous No.18518397]

>>18517149
Have sex

[Anonymous No.18518404]

>>18518389
The National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday that Tesla’s Autopilot driver assistance system was one of the probable causes of a fatal 2018 crash into a concrete barrier. In addition, the safety board said the driver was playing a mobile game while using Autopilot before the crash, and investigators also determined he was overly confident in Autopilot’s capabilities.

The NTSB shared its findings at the end of a three-hour-long hearing on Tuesday. During the hearing, board members took issue with Tesla’s approach to mitigating the misuse of Autopilot, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s lax approach to regulating partial automation technology, and Apple — Huang’s employer — for not having a distracted driving policy. (Huang was playing the mobile game on a company-issued iPhone.)

On March 23rd, 2018, Huang was traveling south on US-101 using Autopilot on his way to work in Mountain View, California. He eventually approached a section of the highway where State Route 85 begins by splitting off to the left of US-101. He was in the left-most HOV lane thanks to the clean air sticker that electric vehicle owners are eligible for.

As the left exit lane for State Route 85 started to split off to the left, the Autopilot system in Huang’s Model X briefly lost sight of the lines marking his lane. (Investigators showed photos on Tuesday of the worn-down lane markers.) Autopilot started following the right-most lane marker of the exit lane, and Huang’s Model X steered into the “gore area” that separates the exit lane from the rest of the highway. A second or so later, his Model X smashed into the damaged crash attenuator and the concrete barrier. He died a few hours later at a local hospital.

[Anonymous No.18518423]

>>18518404
>>18518389
you want to compare how many human piloted car crashes occured during the same timeframe of your self driving cars crashes?
even by number of vehicles self driving cars cause less accidents and therefore making your argument invalid.

[Anonymous No.18518435]

>>18512439
I finished reading that yesterday. David says that people end up doing bullshit jobs rather than being unemployed,which isn't much better. he also recommended UBI as a solution too

[Anonymous No.18518447]

>>18518423
The same argument I've made previously, which you don't seem to get. No algorithm will replace a doctor/pilot/trucker/etc because you'll always need a doctor/pilot/trucker/etc to verify the computer. Their job will be easier mentally by automation but not be given entirely to the computer because no one will put their life on the line like that. Except for Huang, evidently.

[Anonymous No.18518478]

>>18518447
Which is where the strenght in machine learning and automation lies. It will help automate the menial parts of our work and will thus let us focus on what's actually important. Take the translation example earlier in the thread, a computer will not be able to do a good translation of a book in the near future, computers struggle with nuance, however I could easily see translators working in tandem with said software to speed up the translation process whole focusing on accurately portraying all the small nuances present in the works original language. You never really see tech bros talk about this and instead try to push their utopian view of a world where machines will do all of our work.

[Anonymous No.18518489]

>>18512271
>Maybe once the damage is done Yang will see a political boost.
His bowing to Israel makes it clear he's not done trying to break into politics.

[Anonymous No.18518511]

>>18518478
Yes, but you'll always need a human because machine learning translations are shit and your """""translated"""" novellas are shit too. I've seen enough German learners who think that they can get away with running stuff though Deep. Additionally, you can always tell when subtitle companies cheap out and hire a poo in the loo who runs TV shows through Google voice recognition because you get get stuff like
> I'm learning to play a new musical instrument, the platoon

[Anonymous No.18518519]

>>18518489
The nigger who will most likely win said that he loves Israel so much he wants to retire there

https://nypost.com/2021/05/27/eric-adams-says-he-wants-retirement-home-in-israel/

[Anonymous No.18518521]

>>18518511
That's what I said, you have a human translator who knows what they're doing working in tandem with the software instead of the software doing most or all of the work.

[Anonymous No.18518543]

>>18518521
You, or another anon, said that machine learning was so powerful that he """"translated""" novellas in mere seconds.

[Anonymous No.18518688]

>>18510918
yang is a commie

[Anonymous No.18518731]

>>18518688
This and checked.

[Anonymous No.18519104]

>>18512207
Nah he's explained himself before. He's PMC to the core and thinks "the numbers" show that innovation is slowing down in the USA as corporations consolidate. He thinks neetbux could kickstart more small businesses of which a small percentage will actually grow into something worth a damn. He wants to make America 1970s computer tech bro again. At least that's how I remember it from some interview. Could be wrong.

It's not crazy imo, but it's a long shot. A lot of faith in the market to fix it all with just a one weird tweak.

[Anonymous No.18519144]

I'm wondering what will happen if/when automation replaces a good deal of jobs. All of the people displaced, and new workers entering the labor market, can't simply shift forever. Even the service sector is experiencing automation replacing workers.

I wonder what the situation would look like if there were so many people reliant on govt. as a source of income and the amount of persons contributing to fund it has decreased to a worrisome level due to automation/outsourcing. Hypothetically, of course.

[Anonymous No.18519179]

>>18517994
You have to make money to get money under a negative income tax. Zero earners get zero.

[Anonymous No.18519313]

>>18519179
It also isn't wasted on people who already have tons of cash. All government cash transfers have an overhead. Taxing people who earn a lot for UBI then giving them some of the money back is just burning cash for no reason.

[Anonymous No.18519320]

>>18512439

Retroactively? Isn't that implied by "refute".

[Anonymous No.18519325]

>>18516175

Maybe we could trick them into taking medication that also collects in their ovaries and make them sterile.

[Anonymous No.18519326]

>>18516175
>I agree with all of your points but it does raise the question: what're we going to do with a few hundred million unskilled, useless, hungry people? If the answer never moves past "fuck those lazy poors, I've got mine," they're eventually going to kill us.
See this is where having everyone expected to be successful completely falls apart and some modernized form of feudalism to take care of they starts making way more sense

[Anonymous No.18519345]

>>18519326
If you aren't successful it's your own fault.

[Anonymous No.18519379]

>>18517838
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax#Experiments_on_the_effect_of_NIT_on_the_labour_supply

[Anonymous No.18519389]

>>18515294
A leftist position is making money not necessary. Instead of trying to monetize shit you'd want it to just be free. UBI basically accepts the idea profit is necessary to organize society and everything should have a price.
I used the term liberal because its more nuanced than libertarian. There's more reactionary or progressive liberals. Reactionary liberals want to tax consumption which obviously is bad but you could have a more progressive approach.

>>18519144
>I'm wondering what will happen if/when automation replaces a good deal of jobs.
This happened way more dramatically in the past, transitioning away from agricultural employment as the main way of life created a bigger culture shock than automating McDonalds ever could.
>All of the people displaced, and new workers entering the labor market, can't simply shift forever.
Than basically any economic growth should be impossible.
>I wonder what the situation would look like if there were so many people reliant on govt. as a source of income and the amount of persons contributing to fund it has decreased to a worrisome level due to automation/outsourcing.
That's already the case though? Most business are directly/indirectly totally reliant on government spending. Also the amount of people formally working doesn't necessarily matter just the rate of real growth e.g.

>>18517838
You're right, under a guaranteed income program everyone gets the same fixed sum of money whereas Friedman's program was basically an alternative to welfare for the poor

>>18519179
That's literally wrong

>>18519313
What do you mean by "wasted"? Rich people don't need it so it's just going to be saved (and taxed back if you have a progressive tax system). Trying to "help" the poor is going to cost more, just look at how much the rich in America pay today for "charity" which is mostly a giant scam.

[Anonymous No.18519406]

i don't know how many of you people that browse this board have a real job, but in the real world antiquated shit like fax machines and paper checks are still used every day. it'll happen eventually, but definitely not tommorow

[Anonymous No.18519445]

>>18519379
Sounds pretty shit desu.

[Anonymous No.18519452]

>>18519389
>What do you mean by "wasted"?
It costs money to move money through the government. If the government gives you 20k in a year, it will have cost more than 20k in taxes to give it to you. It's better to just not take that money in the first place than wasting it on the bureaucracy.

[Anonymous No.18519506]

>>18519379
These sorts of small scale experiments are worthless. You can find all kinds directly contradicting each other (not to mention how differently things would scale up at the macrolevel).

>Considering results from the Seattle-Denver experiment, it can be shown that the two-parent families that received $2,700 decreased their earnings by almost $1,800. Therefore, spending $2,700 on transfers to two-parent families in Seattle-Denver increased their income by only $900. This raised the question whether taxpayers would be willing to pay $3 in order to increase the income of aforementioned families by $1.
This completely ignores the option of just running larger deficits if you were to scale that up.

>>18519452
>It costs money to move money through the government.
It costs money to move money through the private sector. How do you think your credit card works? If I want to donate money a percentage is taken in fees for processing that payment, than a private charity takes a percentage for themselves and their work (whoever is getting "helped" in the end doesn't get much say in how any of this is administered).

>If the government gives you 20k in a year, it will have cost more than 20k in taxes to give it to you.
Moving money around could be a lot simpler, faster and basically free without the archaic systems in place. Central bank digital currencies are basically going to solve this problem in theory.

>It's better to just not take that money in the first place than wasting it on the bureaucracy.
How do you get rid of bureaucracy? Nice idea everyone agrees on but no one has gotten rid of it yet.

[Anonymous No.18519548]

>>18511822
translation?

[Anonymous No.18519563]

>>18513993
>>18515136
>anecdotal evidence and wishful thinking
AI is cope: the field

[Anonymous No.18519700]

>>18519406
>but in the real world antiquated shit like fax machines and paper checks are still used every day
The paperless office: coming next year for 40 years.

[Anonymous No.18519822]

>>18512439
I don’t see how this refutes the concern that automation will cost tons of jobs.

[Anonymous No.18519833]

>>18515136
>ted
>sam harris

go back to red dit faggot.

[Anonymous No.18519849]

>>18517149
Literally sit back and relax, global warming will kill neoliberal capitalism and liberal democracy for good.

[Anonymous No.18519856]

>>18519822
Thats not the concern. IS about how it gonna change/fuck/affect the global capitalism system.

[Anonymous No.18520626]

>>18510918
Andrew Ng is better than Andrew Yang.
Yang is a complete moron.
Americans are retarded demons. They cry over idiots like Steve Jobs but ignore actual important people like Dennis Ritchie who died around the same time.
It's always shallow, meme-like thinkers that come to the limelight. Americans need to be genocided already.

[Anonymous No.18520770]

>>18516175
...we're just gonna kill em!!

[Anonymous No.18521023]

>>18519320
i think its used when the refutation came before what it is refuted like "deleuze was retroactively refuted by parmenides and guenon" or "kant retroactively refuted object-oriented ontology in his second critique". it used to be a forced meme on /lit/ when guenon was shilled a ton

[Anonymous No.18521063]

>>18519548
>neolib
Neo liberal economic outlook, ubi and the like are just additions in order to preserve this system
>stemfag
Post dot com bubble "stem" oriented world view(tech fag). Look up the "California ideology". Basically, technology worship, unexamined axioms, and general faggotry
>jewish golem
Submitted to the jews of jew york and isn'treal
>technocrat midwit
Self explanatory

[Anonymous No.18521114]

>>18521063
>jew york and isn'treal
Kek

[Anonymous No.18521567]

Communism or barbarism. Vou can't escape the contradictions of capitalism.

[Anonymous No.18521752]

>le yang maymay
Surprised anybody here still cares about this grifting fraud.

[Anonymous No.18521761]

>>18520626
Seems more like the problem is the fact theyre 50% non-white and a festering judaio-masonic cauldron.

[Anonymous No.18521777]

>>18521752
During his presidential run, there were people on Reddit who said things like they only had $13 left in their bank account but they give it to Yang, or they had no savings but once payday came, they'd give everyone to him, minus rent, food, bills. It seems so unethical to prey on the gullible working poor

[Anonymous No.18521780]

>>18521567

First clause: same thing, false choice. Second clause: you should know how easily capitalism assimilates and recuperates its opponents, its counter-cultures. And this is exactly what makes it based. That it is more inherently more subversive, more self-aware (after all it has personality, sentience) than YOU.

[Anonymous No.18521786]

>>18521780
>Actually, capitalism is RAD
Fuck off Moloch

[Anonymous No.18521879]

>>18517682
>Alcibiades
lmao

[Anonymous No.18521911]

>>18521786
>capitalism is bad because the pathetic fail
>so let's genocide them instead through incompetence

[Anonymous No.18521964]

>yang