/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18394525]

Do we appreciate the beauty of Tolkien's world on /lit/? I feel like middle-earth has to be the most impactful setting ever imagined, possibly. I've never seen Christianity transposed and conceptualized onto fantasy so well before. His books make you want to live there.

[S10241875 No.18394583]

>>18394525
Yes, i do.
Others may not, but I don't care.

[Anonymous No.18394729]

Of course. Places like the Shire are as timeless as sunshine

[Anonymous No.18394748]

>chud thread #38737674

[Anonymous No.18396026]

Ironic post considering how Beleriand was constructed as ancient Finland in mind and similar to Kalevala geography with North being the source of Evil etc.

You can imagine what you believe, but the world of Tolkien owes much more to Karelia and the Kalevala than to some desert beduin schizophrenic homosexual dualism of Father-Son incest (Yahweh-Jesus)

[Anonymous No.18396039]

>>18394525
I just reread the Silmarillion and have been swept away to his magical world of vision once again. Tolkien has never been equalled in the fantasy genre; his work transcends genre and is a profound expression of his life.

Next up: the Narn i Hin Húrin.

[Anonymous No.18396114]

>>18396039
Should have read Kalevala.

But then again, most of Tolkien readers like that. They disregard actual myth and timeless wisdom in exchange for infantile elements (dwarves, goblins, tam bambadillo etc.) and probably eat some cheap carbohydrate trash and candy while reading some dumbed down "epic sword fights"

Honestly why don't you kill yourself?

[Anonymous No.18396132]

>>18396114
You’re retarded. I have read the Kalevala, the Eddas, and Germanic and Greek mythology. Tolkien is deeply inspired by them of course, as he was an Oxford linguist by profession and a fantasy writer on the side. Stop trying to make yourself feel better about yourself by belittling Tolkien’s unique work because it isn’t muh ancient sagas; it comes across as insecure and pathetic.

[Anonymous No.18396134]

>dildo braggings
>slay le dragongs
>big mage with powerful spells, woah
>orcs vs. humans
>virgin elve pussies
>took an arrow in to the kne
>"run, fools" -- Gandhi
>spiders_attack_the_gemblos_while_they_sleep.mpg
>the little dude is actually a huge hero dude
>(size don' matter, kids [BUY MUH BOOKS GOYIM!!])
>hop on my griffon, master Harry
>le good always wins never lose hope :)

Was he a brainlet?

[Anonymous No.18396135]

>>18394525
>I've never seen Christianity transposed and conceptualized onto fantasy so well before.
Can you elaborate on this? The only "Christian" theme I've ever really gotten from LotR is Frodo being merciful to Smeagol. And that's characterization and plot rather than setting. As far as I'm concerned you could make a better argument for the setting resembling shogunate Japan than Christendom

[Anonymous No.18396143]

>>18396132
>I have read the Kalevala, the Eddas, and Germanic and Greek mythology.

Ironic how you list all those epics, while Tolkien himself said that Kalevala was the main influence even the English and Saxon myths were rather minor. Kalevala is honestly 80% of Tolkien's influence, the rest 20% are minimal and not even important (or at least, not major element like Kalevala)

[Anonymous No.18396153]

>>18396143
What's the best English translation of the kamehameha? Alternatively was there an English translation in particular that he read?

[Anonymous No.18396160]

>>18396153
The Kalevala translated by John Martin Crawford
in 1888 is probably the one Tolkien started with/used, before learning Finnish.

[Anonymous No.18396271]

>>18394525
Every day
>wow guys I love Tolkien so much why does no one appreciate him
>ooh ooh I appreciate him LOTR is totally underrated
>nyaaaah he just stole everything from the Finns
>have you guys even read the kavalevavela
>actually Tolkien acknowledged that he was a hack so that means he’s not a hack!!!
I’m so fucking sick of 4chan it’s the same shit every fucking day why do I always come back??

[Anonymous No.18397159]

>>18396135
Are you serious? The name Middle earth literally comes an Anglo-Saxon Christian poem.

[Anonymous No.18397196]

>>18396135
Are you serious? The name Middle earth literally comes from an Anglo-Saxon poem about Jesus.

> Crist is the name of a trio of 10th century Old English concerning Jesus Christ, originally from the Anglo-Saxon "Exeter Book.

There’s lines in the poem that goes
Eala éarendel engla beorhtast
ofer middangeard monnum sended

Which translates
> Hail Earendel, brightest of angels, sent over middle-earth to mankind!

Tolkien stated
> that upon reading this he "...felt a curious thrill as if something had stirred in me.....There was something very remote and strange and beautiful behind those words, if I could grasp it, far beyond the ancient English."

[Anonymous No.18397218]

>>18397196
Ironic how you ignore that the world "Ilmen" of Arda derives from the word Ilma https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Ilmen

It's a tribute to the Finnish word Ilma
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ilma
>From Proto-Finnic *ilma (“air, sky, weather”),

And also a tribute to Ilmarinen, the Smith of Air

So while little cuck Jesus would be a little star in the firmament as Earendel, the whole stratosphere of Middle-Earth/Arda is literally Finnish framework, where a star (Jesus) is just a twinkle

You will never admit this though, because you hate Finland are dishonest about the Finnish influence

[Anonymous No.18397239]

>genre fiction

[Anonymous No.18397244]

>>18397196
>middangeard
Sounds a lot like the very Germanic/pagan Midgard got transposed to Christianized Anglo-Saxon literature but sure whatever you say

[Anonymous No.18397254]

>>18397244
>The name Suomi (Finnish for 'Finland') has uncertain origins, but a common etymology with saame (Sami, a Finno-Ugric people in Lapland) and Häme (a province in the inland) has been suggested (Proto-Finnic *hämä from older *šämä, possibly loaned into Proto-Saami as *sāmē), whose source could be the Proto-Baltic word *źemē, meaning '(middle) land

Most probably tribute to Finland and the Kalevala setting.

[Anonymous No.18397268]

>>18394525
Tolkien was a Finnish man. All his works were originally in the Finnish language but MI6 bribed his publisher to translate them and give the credit to the UK, in order to boost its reputation at a time when it really needed to.
The Finnish and UK governments are still hush-hush about this today, but talk to anyone and they’ll tell you it is an open secret.

[Anonymous No.18397286]

>>18397268
It's funny how you make fun of things which are not ironic and outright deny the anglo obsession that many English people have with Finland

Let us take the actor of Saruman for example in the Peter Jackson adaption of Lotr:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lee#Military_service
>When the Second World War broke out in 1939, Lee had enrolled in a military academy and volunteered to fight for the Finnish Army against the Soviet Union during the Winter War.[38] He and other British volunteers were kept away from the actual fighting, but they were issued winter gear and were posted on guard duty a safe distance from the border. After two weeks in Finland, they returned home.[39] In a later interview, Lee stated that he knew how to shoot but not how to ski and that he probably would not be alive if he had been allowed to go to the front line.[40]

This young anglo, obsessed with the mythological land of rune singers, was willing to sacrifice his young life for the independence of the Finnish nation

Most anglos are not even ready to die for their own country, but they are literally obsessed with the land of Suomi, where many actual royal lineages of Europe (including England) actually derive from (according to Sagas)

Pic related.

[Anonymous No.18397297]

>>18397244

Middle earth = place clearly between heaven and hell
Very Christian concept

[Anonymous No.18397299]

>>18397297
Tolkien scholars disagree with you.

[Anonymous No.18397314]

>>18397286
Shut up fingloid. Your Kalevala isn’t even original or pure. There’s literally a virgin giving birth to a son in your boring poem.

[Anonymous No.18397325]

>>18397286
Who’s making fun of anything here? If anything you’re the one making fun of me for speaking the truth. Oh well. It doesn’t hurt me for you to live in IGNORANCE and SUFFERING all your life. That’s on you, pal.

[Anonymous No.18397645]

>>18397244
Wrong.

[Anonymous No.18397709]

>>18394525
>I've never seen Christianity transposed and conceptualized onto fantasy so well before.

[Anonymous No.18397717]

>>18397286
>outright deny the anglo obsession that many English people have with Finland
I don't think anyone gives a shit about Finland let alone having an "obsession" with it. All I know about Finland is you guys made the Spurdo meme.

[Anonymous No.18397727]

Yes I love Lord of the Rings and Middle-earth
Nothing makes me comfier than re-reading the Lord of the Rings

[Anonymous No.18397738]

>>18396271
/thread

[Anonymous No.18397780]

>>18396039
I wouldn't say he's never been equalled in the entire fantasy genre, rather never been equalled in his branch of fantasy of crafting an intricate world, culture, languages, etc. Authors like Dunsany, Peake and a few others I would consider equal to, if not better than Tolkien at times, but Tolkien is certainly one of the greats.

[Anonymous No.18397966]

>>18397780
Quite a stretch to call him one of the 'greats', considering the absolute bulk of material and vast mythology he borrowed from Finland/Kalevala.

He had little to none originality in his works, despite some people call him some genius of imagination. He stole world mythologies and added infantile elements, that is like painting Mona Lisa in a naivist style in the realm of artwork

[Anonymous No.18397999]

>>18397966
This Finngloid is going to spend his entire life in immense asspain over the fact based anglos made his national mythology something worth reading. Thank you Tolkien.

[Anonymous No.18399783]

>>18394525
>I've never seen Christianity transposed and conceptualized onto fantasy so well before
Those are the best type of books

[Anonymous No.18399804]

>>18394525
You can't mention Tolkien here without retards showing up and REEEEEing about 'muh finns' and 'muh Kalevala' and all that shit. I've noticed a lot of weird schisms on /lit/ lately (maybe they were always here and just recently they've become more pronounced?); Tolkien vs the finnish, Melville vs Conrad, Faulkner vs Joyce, etc

[Anonymous No.18399832]

>>18396143
>while Tolkien himself said that Kalevala was the main influence
Who gives a fuck about what he said? Does the Kalevala make any mention at all of the Ring of absolute power? Oh wait, no that's Der Ring des Nibelungen. Well who gives a fuck about this AM I RIGHT: MUH EPIG KALAVAVAVALALA

[Anonymous No.18399899]

>Thread about Tolkien
>Eternal Finn begins spamming his national epic
every time

[Anonymous No.18401269]

>le godd guy vs bad guy agu gaga
>orc, elf, goblins and other mindlesss shit to appeal to toddlers
>dude its like an allegory of environmentalism and WW1 you dont get it
>tolkien is so profound hes the BEST, and will get mad if you dont acknowledge that

lotr is literary trash

[Anonymous No.18401335]

>>18394525
There is nothing Christian about the physical world Tolkien built. The universe's mythology is similar to the Genesis, the themes evoke Christian virtues, but nothing about the physical world is "Christian".

>>18396271
maybe because it makes you feel you don't age, seeing the same posts, same jokes, same memes day after day
only works for a while, though

[Anonymous No.18401376]

>>18401269
It's explicitly NOT an allegory and rather just a answer to the question, "can you write a tale as vast and epic as Beowulf in the 20th century with the modern literary codes, vocabulary, syntax and style"

It's interesting because it's the first book to take the setting seriously and it gave it a level of depth & detail unparalleled

It's also a very powerful writing that manages to convey its (on a surface level, basic) themes with efficiency and subtly.
It's a book that makes you feel.

(you)

[Anonymous No.18401393]

The bigger question is, what are /lit/ thoughts on this man

[Anonymous No.18401575]

>>18399899
he's based. anglos are spoiled crybabies.

[Anonymous No.18401583]

>>18401393
*holds up spork* the character

[Anonymous No.18402273]

>>18401376
it´s funny how tolkien worshippers always talk about the setting, muh worldbuilding, but even the likes of (you) subsconsciously know that his characters have no depth, that´s why you resort to praise the setting instead

[Anonymous No.18403165]

>>18397286
Hey uhh, champ, England hasn't had a Norman king since like, 1204.

[Anonymous No.18403187]

>>18396271
i'm pretty sure its the kavelala guy making these threads and then arguing with himself

[Anonymous No.18403194]

>>18401393
That guy child molested me when I was 6-14 years old

[Anonymous No.18403301]

>>18402273
tolkien isnt a psychological writer (im glad we have literary writers who don't only make character dramas) but each of his 3 main works has a number of very literary characters that are portrayed a little minimalist.

[Anonymous No.18403317]

>>18402273
And the world building mainly consists of him describing what the walls in some mine look like for page after page. How anyone can get through this drivel is beyond me.

[Anonymous No.18403356]

>We might have a society in which the laws were few and just, simple, permanent, and familiar to everyone — a society in which everyone stood shoulder-to-shoulder because everyone lived by the same changeless rules, and everyone knew what those rules were. When we had it, we would also have a society in which the lack of wealth was not reason for resentment but a spur to ambition, and in which wealth was not a cause for self-indulgence but a call to service. We had it once, and some time in this third millennium we shall have it again; and if we forget to thank John Ronald Reuel Tolkien for it when we get it, we will already have begun the slow and not always unpleasant return to Mordor.

http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/10/the-best-introduction-to-the-mountains-2/

[Anonymous No.18404411]

if tolkien had been a professional writer after he gained all his academic knowledge he might've finished an epic poem Silmarillion, or written another novel before he went senile. leaf by niggle is a good short story. it deals with this idea alot. Tolkien knew he wouldn't have time to finish the Silmarillion, and he was worried LOTR would end up the same

[Anonymous No.18404419]

>>18394525
true, my only wish is that I had numenorean gf

[Anonymous No.18404863]

>>18403194
what song did he sing?

[Anonymous No.18405097]

>>18404411
>before he went senile

[Anonymous No.18405317]

>>18403356
>We had it once
Kek this has never happened

[Anonymous No.18406920]

>>18405097
after lotr he was basically dried up creatively and old

[Anonymous No.18407697]

>>18406920
i'd disagree

[Anonymous No.18407717]

>>18401335

[Anonymous No.18407749]

>>18407697
he literally spent 15 years leaving the Silmarillion untouched because it was too hard to finish. He started a lotr sequel and realized he had no drive or creativity for it. Literally what evidence do you have to prove me incorrect?

[Anonymous No.18407759]

>>18403317

I challenge you to quote me more than 3 sentences that describe walls in some mine.
Your criticism is based entirely on imaginary things.

[Anonymous No.18407778]

>>18407749
He abandoned the LOTR sequel because he realized it was a bad idea.

[Anonymous No.18407829]

>>18407778
right... luckily he had plenty of other great ideas and wrote many other books in the last 15 years of his life

[Anonymous No.18408807]

>>18407759
it's one of those pieces of received wisdom that are just not rooted in reality. See also: "pages and pages of description of shrubbery". It just ain't true.

[Anonymous No.18409298]

>>18394525
Personally, I hold Tolkien up there with some of the greatest writers of all time. His world building is unparalleled, I consider him the king of the fantasy genre.

[Anonymous No.18409308]

>>18401393
When the Based Department calls, who do you thinks on the other end?

[Anonymous No.18409314]

>>18396039
>Next up: Narn i Hin Húrin.
Oh... Well, prepare for depression.

[Anonymous No.18410399]

>>18394525
who inspired tolkeins fantasy?

it seems for fantasy rpg staples it went yolkein into dungeons and dragons and every fantasy game or media copies these 2. but what was before tolkein?

[Anonymous No.18411784]

>>18410399
besides actual mythology, i heard he liked conan

[Anonymous No.18412351]

>>18409298
>Personally, I hold Tolkien up there with some of the greatest writers of all time. His world building is unparalleled, I consider him the king of the fantasy genre.

[Anonymous No.18412571]

>>18396134
No, but you are.

[Anonymous No.18412576]

>>18412571
tolkien is literary trash

[Anonymous No.18412581]

>>18401583
He's not though. He's just a very jolly man

[Anonymous No.18412586]

imagine being a writer so devoid of creativity that you just make a good guy vs bad guy conflict, what a pathetic con man this tolkien fella was