/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18383791]

>The struggle for gender equality in education and professions was won decades ago. What is really fascinating is this extraordinary alliance between radical leftist feminism and corporate multinational business which is probably the most sinister and cynical alliance since the Nazi-Soviet pact.
Uhhhhhh .... based???

[Anonymous No.18383816]

>>18383791
hes a blowhard but hes much better than his brother was

[Anonymous No.18385255]

>>18383791
bumperino

[Anonymous No.18385260]

>>18383791
Is this a politics thread?

[Anonymous No.18385280]

>>18383791
>academic makes a painfully obvious observation
>UUUHHH... BASED!! OMG... HOW HE DO IT!!

[Anonymous No.18385293]

>>18383791
Good things are good for everyone: for society and for the economy. The alliance is natural.

[Anonymous No.18385299]

>>18385280
It is obvious but no one is saying it. That's why it's based.

[Anonymous No.18385306]

>>18385280
Hitchens is not an academic

[Anonymous No.18385308]

>>18383791
>radical leftist feminism and corporate multinational business
Radfems hate corporations because corporations tend to support trans people

[Anonymous No.18385311]

>>18385299
its because you have been conditioned to surround yourself with people you fundamentally disagree with, grow up

[Anonymous No.18385320]

>>18385308
Where do radfems exist? I only hear about them from others, but do they even have a voice in society? Aside from JK Rowling's tweets but she's not really radical, she's just portrayed to be radical by the trans radicals.

[Anonymous No.18385344]

>>18385320
They live in hippy communes in rural areas where they braid each others pubic hair, cultivate crops, and rub their clits together to reach orgasmic enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.18385355]

>>18385344
Epic r*ddit

[Anonymous No.18385361]

>>18385355
thanks for the upvotes!

[Anonymous No.18385373]

>>18385320
They are pretty much the most JUSTed faction in contemporary politics that I can think of. They definitely had a voice at one point, but after the early 2010s they got pushed to the side. As LGBT and sex work-positive messaging became more and more important in mainstream feminism, they came to be at odds with the average liberal feminist. As anti-trans stuff became a major part of their cause, the radfems became (hilariously) associated with the right-wing, and when the various social media sites began purging right-wingers, radfems also were kicked off sites. Nowadays they seethe on small forums and on Ovarit, a radfem-owned and run version of Reddit.

[Anonymous No.18385382]

>>18385373
Women really can't fight for shit. Even neo-nazis have a relatively loud voice through /pol/, yet women can't put anything together.

[Anonymous No.18385390]

Lmao they're just quietly waiting to be welcomed back into society again.

[Anonymous No.18385444]

>>18385382
I mean, they successfully used liberal ideologies to win rights and privileges for themselves for nearly 90 years. They just didn't expect that it would eventually backfire, and now they are in disarray. It's also worth noting that radfems are a fractions of feminists. The bulk of feminists are still in line with the rest of the liberal causes.

[Anonymous No.18385469]

>>18385444
>The bulk of feminists are still in line with the rest of the liberal causes.
How? Aren't trans people undermining much of the feminist agenda by making woman an identity available to everyone? It seems at odds and continually so.
>It's also worth noting that radfems are a fractions of feminists.
Yeah, so are neo-nazis, but they still punch up.

[Anonymous No.18385493]

>>18385469
>Aren't trans people undermining much of the feminist agenda by making woman an identity available to everyone? It seems at odds and continually so.
Yes, but most feminists and feminist organizations either haven't realized it or don't care. I think the second option is more likely. As I said, working with other liberal causes has worked for them for nearly a century, it's not hard to see why they want to stick with it.

>Yeah, so are neo-nazis, but they still punch up.
To be blunt both groups (neo-nazis and radfems) have made media waves, but haven't accomplished much in terms of policy.

[Anonymous No.18385566]

>>18385493
>Yes, but most feminists and feminist organizations either haven't realized it or don't care. I think the second option is more likely. As I said, working with other liberal causes has worked for them for nearly a century, it's not hard to see why they want to stick with it.
Fair enough.
>To be blunt both groups (neo-nazis and radfems) have made media waves, but haven't accomplished much in terms of policy.
True, I guess neo-nazis are just better at making noise, but nothing has come out of it yet.

[Anonymous No.18385731]

>>18385373
yeah this. they just completely lost for some reason

[Anonymous No.18385821]

>>18383791

>radical leftist feminism

Spotted the American.

[Anonymous No.18385933]

>>18385469

They're not radical anything, they're literally British Karens who participate in oppression olympics.

They're also not leftists, economically or socially. Many will side with conservatives or are small c conservative themselves.

Not that libs are on the left either, but at least they're not consciously trying to liberate themselves by keeping others in a dystopic nightmare. That's why people hate "TERFs"

[Anonymous No.18385949]

>>18383791
>Corporations adapt to a new socio-political climate to make profit
>There's an alliance between radical leftist feminist's and corporations
Retard

[Anonymous No.18386154]

>>18385933
Are you trans? It seems that the general sentiment on trans people is only growing worse, so who is really liberating trans people and how?

[Anonymous No.18386203]

>>18385949
Well there is

[Anonymous No.18386229]

>>18385320
>Where do radfems exist?
Depends what you mean by "radfems" if you're referring to TERFs they were basically silenced/banned from the major places and now seethe in their little forums

[Anonymous No.18386230]

>>18383791
Why is /lit/ so much better at talking contemporary politics than the designated news and politics boards?

[Anonymous No.18386299]

>>18386230
It's not

[Anonymous No.18386303]

>>18386230
Its not, you guys just have contrarian opinions and massive egos. The widespread adoption of faux Christian/Muslim social conservatism in recent years is the one of the most egregious instances of ideology and culture being used as a fashion statement.

[Anonymous No.18386355]

>>18386303
Nah, many people on /lit/ are genuine Christians. You just seem upset about it, but there's no basis in calling them larpers.

[Anonymous No.18386376]

>>18386230
When it's not on a really hot-topic issue, the board can be very level-headed. /pol/ moves too fast, has a userbase uninterested in actual discussion, and is astroturfed heavily. As for /news/, I've never used it

[Anonymous No.18386390]

>>18386230
Isn't /news/ just neolib boomers? I went there 2 times I think, but I got bored

[Anonymous No.18386407]

>>18386303
Are you so desperately atheistic that you can't fathom the idea of a man willingly submitting himself to God & church? Not everyone is a tween pretending to be trad-cath to get updoots on ifunny, some are genuinely pious and have faith.
>>18386376
>>18386390
I'm convinced /news/ is a GPT-3 testing ground, 50% bots 50% gullible leftists that couldn't stand the stench in /pol/

[Anonymous No.18386409]

>>18383816
Cope

[Anonymous No.18386441]

>>18386154

I'm non-conforming, straight, white, etc. Pretty much a JoJo protagonist IRL.

I am against this oppression olympics shit, denying rights to trans people for medically recognised reasons, the social role of gender and the rampant anti-intellectualism that conservatives display.

I know many people who would be considered "TERFs" and they're all dumb fuck wine mums and conservative men using feminism as a justification for their bigoted views and unwillingness to let society evolve.

[Anonymous No.18386492]

>>18386441
But there are genuine practical concerns for women no? Like women's sports and bathrooms. It seems difficult to put everything in practice.

[Anonymous No.18386495]

>>18386441
dilate

[Anonymous No.18386499]

>>18386230

best guess is because people come here for theory and literary analysis/book recommendations and politics happens incidentally, where as /pol/ is a refuge for edgy disenfranchised rightoids to share memes without getting banned.

[Anonymous No.18386516]

>>18386492
Nobody said otherwise, except the "end of history" idiots and conservatives.
I hate to keep using the term "oppression olympics", but that's exactly what it is. You don't fight your battles by downplaying or opposing the liberation struggles which are just as legitimate.

[Anonymous No.18386565]

>>18386441
i hope the next child you try to molest cuts your cock off

[Anonymous No.18386579]

>>18386516
Sorry, I don't really get it. My impression is that some women oppose some trans rights like allowing MtF to participate in women's sports, and to do so they have to claim that trans women are not real women. Then trans women feel disenfranchised and call these women TERFS and transphobes. But it doesn't seem like the conflict is avoidable? It also doesn't seem to me that either of the parties is particularly at fault.

[Anonymous No.18386745]

>>18386579

The sports thing is quite a nuanced discussion and people who know nothing about trans bodies really have no part in it.

As far as I understand, for trans women in sports, it is mainly related to testosterone exposure during puberty which confers an advantage to trans women, but TERFs also want to deny trans women the rights to block testosterone exposure, so fuck them.

The bathrooms thing is pure conservative hogwash. Since TERFs believe that all men are biologically rapists because of their DNA, they naturally assume that trans women want into their bathrooms so they can sexually violate them. I don't even get mad at that, I simply find it laughable.

[Anonymous No.18386779]

>What is really fascinating is this extraordinary alliance between radical leftist feminism and corporate multinational business
I honestly want to know why what is a good book on this matter? It's not even just 'feminism' anymore it is sodomy, trannies, miscegenation, blacks et. al. What is the endgame? I work for one of the worst companies in the world for this regard and I can't seem to understand it, because the people these principles cater to would consider themselves left leaning, if not communist which of course would, in the end, be completely counterproductive for these companies (but you will notice it NEVER approaches this point)
I only have two hypotheses:
1. Fulfilling these endeavours take emphasis away from class divide and instead places the emphasis on identity politics (divide & conquer)
2. Unironic secular-Marxist Jews destabilising the West for who knows what reason, stemming from the Frankfurt School of the 20th century

Wtf is the answer?

[Anonymous No.18386829]

>>18386779

>sodomy, trannies, miscegenation, blacks

Out of all the problems inherent to liberalism, you pick those. It stops short of communism because it never aspired to communism, it is liberal ideology.

You are right about placing emphasis on identity politics, however. Divide and conquer. Conciliatory virtue signalling to counter revolutionary action.

Actual leftists don't want black CEOs, they want worker owned industries which serve the working class (ALL of the working class.) and eventually the liberation of all under a classless society which no longer requires a state to defend its interests.

[Anonymous No.18386907]

>>18383791

[Anonymous No.18387074]

>>18386907
based pete

[Anonymous No.18387115]

>>18386565

the right love to project their desire to molest children. after all child molestation is about hierarchy and domination, the things you lot cherish above all. hence why it's usually male authority figures, clerics and the rich who carry out such crimes. I suggest you go and fuck yourself instead, good sir.

[Anonymous No.18387149]

>>18386829
>a classless society which no longer requires a state to defend its interests.

Yeah, no such reality will ever exist as long as humans differ. You would have to create a world of everyone having the same appearance and thought. It's in the same realm of fantasy as zombies and comic books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimal_group_paradigm

[Anonymous No.18387218]

>>18387149

Humans don't differ significantly enough for that to be the case, but in case you're interested, many on the left are very pro-nationalism when it comes to decolonisation and cultural sovereignty. There are some conflicts that will probably never be resolved, but addressing the distribution of land and resources and working class solidarity can only help matters. Only liberal multiculturalism really wants everyone to be the same, it is a common conflation.

[Anonymous No.18387224]

>>18385320
ovarit.com

[Anonymous No.18387248]

>>18386779
>What is the endgame? I work for one of the worst companies in the world for this regard and I can't seem to understand it, because the people these principles cater to would consider themselves left leaning, if not communist which of course would, in the end, be completely counterproductive for these companies
Walmart and Target doesn't really give a shit about race or gender and will even pander to you, not discriminate against you, while the small proprietors these big corporations have crushed and are crushing often do/did. The corporations might not be "good" but there are a lot of people who don't particularly miss what they replaced.

From a communist perspective though, a tactical alliance with "woke capitalism" can be good, because by lessening the material realities of race/gender/caste, the capitalists are unwittingly creating the conditions for a revolutionary proletariat to emerge. Companies are driven to appease their shareholders for the next quarterly earnings report, they are driven by profit, they are driven to avoid losing a competitive disadvantage at all costs. And they often do not know, or stop to think, what the social consequences of all this will lead to -- an eventual division of the world into two great, irreconcilable, antagonistic classes.

On the other hand, if the capitalists are trying to lessen the material realities of race/gender/caste which are standing in the way of the further development of the productive forces, but CANNOT, then it stands to reason that a revolutionary overthrow of the current society becomes historically necessary for civilization to advance. "Having developed productive forces to a tremendous extent, capitalism has become enmeshed in contradictions which it is unable to solve."

And as any Marxist would tell you, the mechanisms driving this are occurring independently of the will of men, or entire countries, to do much about. And this can proceed quite smoothly, without conflicts, for a long time. But that is so only up to a certain moment.

https://youtu.be/WtTgsu_JtNU

[Anonymous No.18387273]

>>18387149
>>18387218

And when I say multiculturalists want everyone to be the same, I mean it in the sense that they're not interested in the slightest in addressing ethnic or class tensions. They want to create a society where variety is tolerated, but not to radically alter that predominate culture to raise everyone to be equals.

[Anonymous No.18387281]

>>18385311
my dude you get thrown out of academia and blacklisted for not using the right pronouns. let's not be dishonest here, things are in a dire state.

[Anonymous No.18387292]

>>18387248

How can an alliance with "woke capitalism" be good and raise class consciousness, when it is a tolerance of the very class who actively suppress genuine revolutionary movements in the global south? What about global solidarity?

The chain breaks at its weakest link, revolution is not fomented in social democracies.

[Anonymous No.18387294]

>>18387248
>From a communist perspective though, a tactical alliance with "woke capitalism" can be good, because by lessening the material realities of race/gender/caste
you mean entrenching them as a product, destroying workers rights, destroying politics in public mind and discourse, destroying any remanent of culture and consciousness that wasn't totally cucked by corporate parasitism.

you made a big post to do what you always do: liberal apologetics for the (global) status quo.

[Anonymous No.18387365]

>>18385311
Kids get expelled for wrongthink these days. I'll grow up when you wake up.

[Anonymous No.18387368]

>>18387292
There is good and bad in every thing, every process, because every thing contains contradictions. Dialectics also teaches us that every thing eventually turns into its opposite, so things which seem bad right now can become good eventually. Also where revolutions occur will be unpredictable, and yeah probably not in social democracies (which I don't think have much of a future). We'll see how the Peruvian elections go, but I find it interesting there that a socially-conservative Marxist who is a champion of the poor and indigenous people there might win against the right-wing liberal daughter of the fascist dictator in the 90s who is in an alliance with multinational "woke" corporations. There are people at his rallies holding portraits of the pro-Soviet, pro-Cuban leftist general who nationalized the mines in the late 60s/70s before being overthrown in a coup.

https://youtu.be/pfTmuzwpBAE

>>18387294
I'm voting for Pedro

[Anonymous No.18387422]

>>18385390
What sub is this? Aren't replies like this moderated to fuck on Reddit?

[Anonymous No.18387427]

>>18387292
>What about global solidarity?
Going back to this again, but I think we're going to see a revival of the connection between what's often derided as "identity politics" with anti-imperialism and anti-capitalism. I'm not worried about people being fooled by woke capitalism, on the contrary, I think most people realize it's a scam. People are not stupid. You need to have more faith in the masses.

https://youtu.be/7S_gz9rND1I

[Anonymous No.18387447]

>>18387115
You come across as either younger than 20 or absolutely cringe and hanging around in faggy online circles. Grow up man.

[Anonymous No.18387528]

>>18386907
>Conservatism didn't conserve anything
Do you not realize that's a sure way to out yourself as a reactionary and therefore liberal conservatives don't care about what you say?

[Anonymous No.18387536]

>>18387218
>pro-nationalism when it comes to decolonisation
What does this mean? Nationalism for developing countries?

[Anonymous No.18387569]

>>18387248
>if the capitalists are trying to lessen the material realities of race/gender/caste which are standing in the way of the further development of the productive forces, but CANNOT, then it stands to reason that a revolutionary overthrow of the current society becomes historically necessary for civilization to advance.
But that may vary well be a fascist revolution, not communist, though I'm not even sure why you guys are so different from each other: both are revolutionary socialists and more recently both are nationalists. The slight difference seems to be that one is more ethno and the other one more civic.

[Anonymous No.18387617]

>>18387422
It's the radfem Reddit mentioned above.

[Anonymous No.18387620]

>>18386409
seethe

[Anonymous No.18387629]

>>18385949
>feminist's
??

[Anonymous No.18387637]

>>18386303
Christianity has always been popular in the West, what the fuck are you even talking about?

[Anonymous No.18387644]

>>18387536

Not nationalism in the sense of a reactionary notion of supremacy and right to conquer territory and subjugate other nations.

"A nation is a historically constituted, stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, and psychological make-up manifested in a common culture."

Left wing nationalists recognise the right of historically constituted nations to sovereignty from the colonial powers who subjugated them, genocided and took their land.

[Anonymous No.18387680]

>>18387644
Ok well that doesn't really help the West.

[Anonymous No.18387708]

>>18387680

The vast majority of land isn't owned by the proletariat in the West anyway. It doesn't really harm the west as much as one would think.

In the short term some of the more affluent working class, like the professional managerial class and politicians might be forced to make sacrifices. Consumerism as we know it would change without sweatshops and what have you. In the long term it serves everyone.

Western Chauvanists are not leftists anyway. Though many call themselves such.

[Anonymous No.18387727]

>>18387708
Well Western leftists want Western workers to do well, and nationalism in developing countries doesn't advance the cause in any way. But I get it you're not from the West so you don't care and that's ok

[Anonymous No.18387836]

>>18387727

Yes and Western workers will do better if they're not competing with factories in the developing world. I live in da Norf of the UK. Do you have any idea how fucked we are from the outsourcing of industry? By circumventing worker's rights in the global south, the Western proletariat get fucked too. They give us welfare so we don't revolt.

[Anonymous No.18387841]

>>18387836
Good point

[Anonymous No.18387852]

>>18385949
Corpos do it at the cost of profit.
The right jokes about how leftists are so fragile and need safe spaces from sheer utterances, which in some sense is true, but look at them, these twig overgrown children control all aspect of our lives, and the right can't even defend itself from the attacks of these weak metrosexuals which comes in the form of censorship.

[Anonymous No.18387874]

>>18387841
And then when economic migrants try to move to the West to escape their dystopias right wing populists scapegoat them for everything wrong with the economy and blame social problems on them (even though they actually benefit the economy by providing cheaper labour, again, fucking the Western proletariat)

I would never deny that it won't fuck us up in the short term. I like cheap shit and welfare. We would have to re-industrialise essentially. But in the long term it helps everyone, not just the global south.

[Anonymous No.18387884]

>>18387620
Refute

[Anonymous No.18387903]

>>18385299
No one in academia. When someone on 4chan says it nobody pays attention. When someone in academia halfway says it everyone loses their mind.

[Anonymous No.18387912]

>>18385373
They are the only lefties who have actually gone against a serious bit of lefty orthodoxy. They are a perfect demonstration of how the left works- it has a thousand ever changing tenets, all of which you must comply with it all times, or else you get excommunicated.
This is why I laugh when commies or whatever pretend to be totally different from SJWs. If you were actually different, they would hate you and treat you like the TERFs. But, because you submit to all the necessary bits of insanity, they allow you to hang around.

[Anonymous No.18387919]

>>18387912

SJWs (libs) fucking HATE MLs and MLMs, as well as people who want revolutionary violence. What are you talking about anon?

[Anonymous No.18387927]

>>18387852
They also have the government, police, and military on their side

[Anonymous No.18387930]

>>18387919
No, they don't. Does anyone get in trouble for being a Marxist? No. People that SJWs actually hate get in trouble for their views. Marxists do not.

[Anonymous No.18388007]

>>18385390
People are definitely peaking and getting fed up with all the gender this and that BS.
>>18385444
It says GenderCritical, however I thought that sub was banned a long time ago or was another radfem sub?

[Anonymous No.18388013]

>>18387930

They literally call us red fascist and reject revolutionary violence.

And that's a cringe take. The British establishment is full of TERFs. The closest we got to a Marxist was Corbyn and he's an academic Marxist at best and a social democrat. Ditto, Bernie Sanders in the U.S.

[Anonymous No.18388027]

>>18385280
>academic
He's the opposite, and that's a good thing.

[Anonymous No.18388034]

>>18385390
>posting reddit unironically
Fucking kill yourself

[Anonymous No.18388103]

>>18388007
(Old) Reddit is open source, so people have cloned it to make their own websites. That gendercritical is on this site:
https://saidit.net/s/gendercritical

[Anonymous No.18388242]

>>18388013
Whatever. It's far easier to be a "Marxist" in almost any official capacity that to be, say, a libertarian or Christian. It's obvious they don't hate you, because you submit on all the important issues.

[Anonymous No.18388447]

>>18388242

Except revolutionaries are targeted, most famously by COINTELPRO. The thing about Marxism is that it's an actual academic economic theory and doesn't necessarily lead people to join revolutionary organisations.