/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18362614]

>Covid 19 come up
>Individual liberty get sacrified for the sake of collective safety
>State interventionism becoming the new trend to restrict social distance rules and give economic aid
>Liberalism paradigm becoming irrelevant anymore

But i must critize something. He is still doing black-white logic. >The choice is between socialism or barbarism.

Meh. False dichotomy fallacy. I think there’s still three option; keynesian centrist economic.

[Anonymous No.18362636]

>>18362614
Zizek always throws a lot of shit around hoping some of it will stick. His take on Corona turned out to be shit.

[Anonymous No.18362657]

Fuck liberty and fuck the free market.

[Anonymous No.18362661]

>>18362657
hello wagiecuck
how is life

[Anonymous No.18362698]

>>18362657
>>18362661
I think social democracy is the best option than socialism or capitalism (in it’s pure way)

You got economic safety
You got freedom
People still have chance to start a bussiness, but when it get bigger, state would give you progressive tax for the sake of public goods (healthcare, public transportion, education stuff, etc).

[Anonymous No.18362709]

>>18362614
so it's good or nah? TLDR?

[Anonymous No.18362717]

>>18362709
Tldr:
>sniff. Paradox! German toilet shelf for efficiency!

[Anonymous No.18362756]

>>18362709
I must admit that his analysis is good. Covid 19 become the crazy pandemic and as prominent entities, the states must take a big role. But one thing i hate from this book is he given a Over simplistic solution.

>State interventionism is good, therefore we must all become a socialist.

I hate auth left political tendency cause it give too much power on one individual or one political party. Kind of “There’s No ideas but from our side” stuff.

>No discussion
>No new ideas
>No dialectical ideas in the daily basis

Imagine that. Lol.

Note: i am not pro liberalism. I am living in welfare state and i love it. Balence between right and left political tendency.

[Anonymous No.18362759]

>>18362614
no shit hes a marxist selling the old Jew lie.

[Anonymous No.18362762]

>>18362756
>I am living in welfare state and i love it.
God damn people like you make me want to go full Genghis Khan.

[Anonymous No.18362773]

We're never going to escape the end of history if Zizek is the best we can do for opposition to liberal democracy.

[Anonymous No.18362777]

>>18362698
and everyone claps

[Anonymous No.18362789]

>>18362773
I think Fukuyama just Made such jump to conclusion fallacy. The collapsed of Soviet Union doesn’t mean the ideas of left tendecy become death. It just adapted to the current situation which become more democratic. For example: the popularity of Bernie Sanders and AOC.

[Anonymous No.18362791]

>>18362698
>hi, I am twelve and thank you for listening to my presentation

[Anonymous No.18362801]

>>18362791
>Focused on age instead of the argumentation
>Ad hominem fallacy

Nah, good luck next time, mate.

[Anonymous No.18362853]

>>18362789
It will be the Right, not the Left, that restarts history. If Fukuyama's thesis is that the debate between ideologies has been settled in favor of liberal democracy, then clearly the key to restarting history is to destroy liberal democracy as the dominant ideological hegemony.

Who do you think is more equipped to do that right now, between the Right and the Left? It sure as fuck isn't the Left, which is to committed to mass movements and an ideology of communitarian politics to ever meaningfully challenge liberal democracy. Hell, scratch the skin off any "communist" or DSA member and you'll get a boring, ordinary Democratic Party voter.

But the Right seems poised to abandon the idea of liberal democracy, after embracing it for almost 200 years. That's really exciting. There is now building consensus on the Western Right to abandon liberal democracy, and even to abandon democracy in total. Politics in representative democracy has always been a game between Left and Right. What happens when one side decides it doesn't want to play any more? Well, then, we start a NEW game, which will be played quite differently.

[Anonymous No.18362856]

>>18362801
reddit tier, go back

[Anonymous No.18362862]

>>18362789
Improve your English before you post here again. This was painful to read.

[Anonymous No.18362898]

>>18362862
>Improve your english
>Red herring fallacy

That dude is spoke about how wrong Fukuyama’s idea is, so the proper answer is to refute his argument not complain how bad his grammar is.

[Anonymous No.18362945]

>>18362756
thanks anon

[Anonymous No.18362977]

>>18362945
You Are welcome, mate. This is how the board should be; discussing book instead of unimportant shits.

[Anonymous No.18362978]

>>18362614
>Meh. False dichotomy fallacy.
I suspect one of the drivers of MIGA and QAnon net cults is they see the liberal "experts" who "believe in facts" say things like "COVID is real" or "climate change is real" but the same experts' solutions are half-assed at best or cynical -- like blaming Trump as the sole agent responsible for 500,000 deaths and not themselves too -- that they conclude, "rationally," that COVID and climate change aren't real. I think that's the false dichotomy.

>>18362853
>There is now building consensus on the Western Right to abandon liberal democracy, and even to abandon democracy in total.
Liberalism's commitment to democracy was always half-assed at best, and liberalism was from the outset based on an anti-democratic "social contract" theory of governance where the masses agree to let an enlightened governing class rule on their behalf and in the interest of the nation as a whole. But if this governing / ruling class nakedly advances their own interest at the expense of everyone else, then yes, by liberalism's own logic it cannot survive.

There's a dialectic here though. Like, the right points out that woke language is a con, it's used by the lucky few to claim to be crusading for justice while entrenching their power in a dirty, hypocritical way. You have to know the lingo or you're shut out. But that opens up two possibilities:

(1) The left should tactically align with "woke capitalism" because by diversifying the bourgeoisie and lessening the material realities of race/caste, the bourgeoisie is inadvertently removing an obstacle inhibiting the formation of a revolutionary proletariat conscious of its unified class interests. But if this does not actually happen, if it is not possible to actually advantage members of historically marginalized communities through wokese, then it stands to reason (dialectically) that:

(2) "Woke capitalism's" promises about ending racial injustice cannot actually be fulfilled under capitalism, only draw attention to it, and insofar as it reduces racial inequalities in some limited areas it will only highlight them elsewhere. The so-called "meritocratic" capitalists whom the right condemns for their hypocrisy, their superficiality, and their focus on entrenching their power as much as possible, are enmeshing themselves in contradictions which they are unable to solve, coming into irreconcilable contradiction with them.

Indeed, the main feature of the capitalist system is a most acute class struggle between the exploiters and the exploited. And it's precisely the right's aversion to mass movements that leaves the left prime to take advantage of this opportunity. Liberalism, in fact, hates mass movements, because it doesn't believe in direct, mass participation in politics: only through "representatives" believing in the social contract.

https://youtu.be/FOBpuGDfwPQ

[Anonymous No.18363009]

>>18362614
>Individual liberty
Is a joke. Liberty is to burgers as equality was to Soviets, or blood to Nazis. It's just the lie that makes their servility bearable.
There has not been a single "free man" in the modern world. Get over yourself

[Anonymous No.18363020]

>>18362614
>>Covid 19 come up
>>Individual liberty get sacrified for the sake of collective safety
>>State interventionism becoming the new trend to restrict social distance rules and give economic aid
>>Liberalism paradigm becoming irrelevant anymore
That's a good overview of the situation. Makes me almost wanting to read the book but not reading marxists.

[Anonymous No.18363027]

>>18362756
>Note: i am not pro liberalism. I am living in welfare state and i love it. Balence between right and left political tendency.
That's liberalism lol

[Anonymous No.18363054]

>>18363027
>Social liberalism a.k.a John Rawls and Keynesian model.

[Anonymous No.18363063]

>>18363009
This is a very dumb post. Liberty is a spectrum.

[Anonymous No.18363077]

>>18362614
Read zizek
>sure
Listen to zizek
>oh dear god, back to reading
Read again
>internal monologue has horrible lisp and sniffles.

Lack of personnel dear child.

[Anonymous No.18363101]

>>18363077
Isn't he writing in his native language? He doesn't have any of these habits when speaking other languages. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfNeIRQ350

So if you're reading an English translation you're falsely attributing those sniffles to him. Now you can read without them

[Anonymous No.18364073]

>>18362636
Oh? He basically called Jan 6th.

[Anonymous No.18364250]

Why does Zizek cuck out so hard to the social progressive liberal stuff? He has shilled for trannies and feminism and BLM and all that stuff.
I thought he was smarter than that desu.

[Anonymous No.18364324]

>>18364250
He was always pro soclib. But imo he degenerated after prolonged exposure to Americans.

[Anonymous No.18364401]

>>18364073
it was just a farce event with no bigger consequences. Zizek was talking about all Western societies turning to barbarism, and it didnt happen. Neolib order just got stronger from corona. Unless you have any examples about Western societies that are on the brink of collapse because of virus?

[Anonymous No.18364410]

>>18364324
He used to call Judith Butler a degenerate stinking bitch and make fun of w*men and feminism.

[Anonymous No.18364626]

>>18364401
Only a retard would think that the media's ability to lie people into a frenzy causing them to invade the national legislature which ended in several deaths doesn't have far reaching political consequences. Over two thirds of the country are in deep delusion and they're demanding you pick a side and write the other off as unredeemably evil. We aren't even allowed the nuance to say that if the election had been stolen those people did atleast to a point what I would like to see done. Maybe we aren't on the brink of collapse, but it's clear the public consensus on the legitimacy of power is fading. People are scared, they don't trust the government not their neighbors, unfortunately with good reason.

[Anonymous No.18364634]

>>18362614
individual liberty never existed in the first place.
it's just a mirage based on wordplay
like 'freedom of speech'
it's a delimited, false freedom.

[Anonymous No.18364635]

Byung Chul-Han has the most apt analysis of the pandemic and he gave it not long after it started

[Anonymous No.18364639]

>>18363009
only right answer

[Anonymous No.18364642]

>>18363063
>Liberty is a spectrum
meaningless wordplay, which is all you're capable of to keep up the pretense
either you have liberty or you don't. (you don't).

[Anonymous No.18364670]

>>18362978
climate "science" is a big fat joke and nothing about it remotely resembles objectivity.
we can't even handle the stock market's complexity, let alone the climate.
nobody predicted 2008--the climate is that times one gazillion.

[Anonymous No.18364675]

>>18364670
Trust the science, my man. We can accurately predict the future.

[Anonymous No.18364707]

>>18364670
While I am more of a climate change skeptic than your average lib cuck, I have to object to your comparison with the stock market. The stock market is the outcome of billions and trillions of individual human decisions, made continuously over the course of days and weeks. It's hard to predict because humans themselves are hard to predict. Climate is easier to predict (though still hard) because many of the factors that produce our weather are in fact known and relatively constant, compared to the factors that go in to even one person's decision to buy or sell WalMart stock.

[Anonymous No.18364710]

>>18364707
>the whole equals the sum of its parts
opinion disregarded

[Anonymous No.18364718]

>>18364710
>Meaningless word salad

[Anonymous No.18364728]

>>18362614
>I think there’s still three option; keynesian centrist economic.
keynesian economics has been in the trash since the 90s. post-keynesianism isnt much better either. the two choices are neoliberal austerity or socialism (socialism or barbarism).

[Anonymous No.18364770]

>>18364718
>ignorance of basic concepts in complexity

[Anonymous No.18364812]

>>18364670
>it’s complex & I don’t get it so no one else does
>translation: I’m a fucking retard so everyone else must also be a retard just like me

[Anonymous No.18364827]

>>18362614
Bought my copy off wish.com for 1/4 the price

[Anonymous No.18364831]

>>18364812
You are the retard. And you're illiterate.
The whole is other than the sum of its parts is a widely-used phrase, so you're doubly retarded. You should probably just stick your head down the john and flush until you stop breathing.

[Anonymous No.18364841]

>>18363077
kek

[Anonymous No.18365443]

>>18364707
>The stock market is the outcome of billions and trillions of automated algorithmic trades
ftfy

[Anonymous No.18365450]

>>18364670
plenty of people predicted 2008 it's just that they were ignored because line go up = world more gooder

[Anonymous No.18365463]

>>18364250
what are you talking about? he's always been opposed to to capitalism with a social justice face

[Anonymous No.18365504]

>>18365463
Nah

[Anonymous No.18365613]

>>18365463
Yeah he criticizes the social justice capitalism stuff but he still supports the same basic ideas. He supports feminism, LGBT, etc. It's very cringe desu.

[Anonymous No.18365628]

>>18365613
i didn't think that kids liked to read anymore

[Anonymous No.18365655]

>>18362756
How do you manage to read anything with this level of ESL

[Anonymous No.18365677]

>>18365655
Just read it without tendency to being police grammar. As english man i still understand his statement.

[Anonymous No.18366280]

>>18362698
Damn, it was that simple the whole time.

[Anonymous No.18366618]

>>18362614
Zizek needs to get Trotskyed

[Anonymous No.18366631]

>>18362698
read Lenin and Luxembourg

[Anonymous No.18366648]

>>18362773
The best is Jehu actually, most people just have no idea who he is because he's anon and doesn't have a book deal.

[Anonymous No.18366653]

FACT.

[Anonymous No.18366662]

>>18362773
Actually the best contemporary philosopher against liberal democracy is Peter Sloterdijk. Without a doubt. Hands down. Fact. It is that simple.
Leftoids, Marxists, classical liberals, and cuckservatives alike fear him.

[Anonymous No.18366670]

>>18362698
>stalinists seething

[Anonymous No.18366684]

>>18366662
>Leftoids, Marxists, classical liberals, and cuckservatives alike fear him.
As well as neoliberals, libertarians, and global homos by the way.
Sloterdijk goes on the attack against all of them. No enlightenment liberal or milquetoast conservative or leftist of any kind is a match for Sloterdijk.

[Anonymous No.18367030]

>>18366662
this desu

[Anonymous No.18367143]

>>18364635
Did he ever update the claims he made about disease in The Burnout Society?

[Anonymous No.18367511]

>>18362853
Not really. The left is destroying liberalism (or at least creating a worse form of it) while the right is trying to reinstate it.

[Anonymous No.18367537]

>>18367511
Liberalism is not right, no matter how hard you leftoids force this meme. Those classical liberals and cuckservatives in the media are not right wing. Republicans are not right wing. There is no right wing in modern politics.

[Anonymous No.18367549]

[Anonymous No.18367629]

>>18366662
How is a liberal against liberalism?

[Anonymous No.18367643]

>>18364073
When?

[Anonymous No.18367753]

>>18364670
While I agree on your statement on climate change, plenty of people predicted the stock market collapse in 08.

[Anonymous No.18367805]

>>18365677
You are not English man. You are an illiterate subhuman or an apologist for illiterate subhumans. Why defend bad writing? There is being a grammar Nazi and then there is not being able to string two words together. Being able to understand something is different from wanting to read butchered ESL language and I doubt OP is able to understand half of anything he reads.

[Anonymous No.18367806]

Don’t take pop-philosophy seriously, that being said, who are some pop philosopher essentials?

[Anonymous No.18367881]

>>18367629
Sloterdijk isn't a liberal. What is liberal about him in your gay retarded mind? He hates liberal democracy, he hates feminism and multiculturalism and immigrants shitting up Germany, he named the Rothschilds, he supports eugenics, and he talks about how modern psychology is Jewish.

[Anonymous No.18369112]

>>18362614
Žižek is just another establishment shill who doesn't challenge the narrative in any way

[Anonymous No.18369135]

>>18362698
Babby

[Anonymous No.18369154]

>>18362801
>>18362898
>>18362614
>>18364770
>>18367805
>>18366653
>>18366662
I say it with the deepest compassion, please kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.18370796]

>>18369112
That is what all public intellectuals are for. They are there to gatekeep.

[Anonymous No.18371088]

>>18364250
>I thought he was smarter than that desu.

i wonder why......

[Anonymous No.18371118]

>>18367881
Fake and gay.

[Anonymous No.18371131]

>>18371118
stupid idiot

[Anonymous No.18371157]

>>18371131
Conservatives are liberals, stupid american.

[Anonymous No.18371167]

>>18369154
dumb commie

[Anonymous No.18371174]

>>18371157
maybe in todays west

[Anonymous No.18371220]

>>18371157
I am not talking about your classical liberal cuckservative Republican types you stupid fucking retard. I already refuted all of that. You don't even read. You are a worthless pathetic little worm

[Anonymous No.18371222]

>>18371157
That is not what we are talking about, stupid faggot prick. Blow your fucking brains out.

[Anonymous No.18371235]

>>18371157
Your post is completely worthless and a total nonsequitur because SLOTERDIJK IS NOT THE LIBERAL-CONSERVATIVE TYPE THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. HE IS OUTSIDE OF THAT PARADIGM. SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[Anonymous No.18371246]

>>18367537
>>18367537
>>18367537
>>18367537
>>18367537

[Anonymous No.18371264]

>>18371220
Look at this samefag.

[Anonymous No.18371271]

>>18371264
READ MY POSTS AND LEARN WHY YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT YOU WORTHLESS CUNT.

[Anonymous No.18371294]

How to be a smug worthless leftoid parasite.
>support sexual perverts and feminism
>when people criticize the left for their fag/tranny enabling, just deflect and evade by saying "That has nothing to do with leftism. Marxism has nothing to do with all that stuff. You conservatives are do dumb and uneducated haha"
>continue to support these social movements that destroy society
>smugly say that conservatives are the real liberals, ignoring all of the illiberal right when it's convenient for you

[Anonymous No.18371319]

>>18371271
Autism.
And stop yelling. Trump will never run again.

[Anonymous No.18371333]

>>18371319
I don't care. What does Trump have to do with this? Why do you people bring up Trump all the time? You are such simpletons.

[Anonymous No.18371342]

>>18362614
>le sniffing slavic ideology man
This guy is the epitome of fast food philosophy

[Anonymous No.18371345]

>>18371333
Yeah you responded ten times in all caps because you don't care sure thing boomer.

[Anonymous No.18371346]

>>18371294
If you want me to care about the illiberal right, give me a reason to care. I think the most important political thing that is happening right now is Peru where a Marxist-Leninist schoolteacher came out of nowhere and is leading the rural copper miners (many of whom are indigenous) to a possible victory in the election against the right-wing liberal candidate. Crossing my fingers.

https://youtu.be/592kT9B0GqU

https://youtu.be/7S_gz9rND1I

[Anonymous No.18371359]

>>18371345
You are a retard with no argument.

[Anonymous No.18371375]

>>18371294
Pretty much this

[Anonymous No.18371385]

>>18371346
Enjoy your starvation and hyper inflation

[Anonymous No.18371400]

>>18371220
>>18367881
He calls himself an ambivalent conservative. And he said people like Jünger are evil. So not the radical you're making him out to be.

[Anonymous No.18371401]

>>18371385
That's happening right now. That's why he's winning. The country's economy and health system has collapsed from catastrophic failure by liberals. And now all these "dissident" illiberal rightists go rallying around this bitch. Go fuck yourself.

https://youtu.be/pfTmuzwpBAE

[Anonymous No.18371411]

>>18371401
True right wing, anti-liberal people do not support women in politics. Women in positions of power is liberalism.

[Anonymous No.18371424]

>>18364626
>several deaths
talk about eating up media narratives.

[Anonymous No.18371476]

>>18371411
Only the Divine Right to dress as women can save us.

[Anonymous No.18371483]

Let me tell you something.
You leftists and Marxist types try to distance yourselves from liberals (which is very understanable because liberals are a total embarrassment) but the truth that you don't want to admit is that you are almost exactly the same as the liberals. Marxism and liberalism are both fundamentally based in "Enlightenment" presuppositions that the ultimate goal should be the political and social liberation of the individual, everyone is just a blank slate affected by social forces, a materialist, empiricist worldview, rejection of metaphysics (unless you count your dialectical materialism and other such garbage), equality, freedom from the "oppression" of traditional hierarchies, etc.
You just have slight disagreements about how to achieve that. You are just slightly different brands of """Enlightenment""" trash.

[Anonymous No.18371508]

>>18371483
Well said

[Anonymous No.18371533]

>>18371483
>dichotomyfag
>thinks he's not liberal

[Anonymous No.18371620]

Modern secular liberals (and of course that includes Marxists and progressive types) are literally gnostics and they don't even realize it.
They think they just have a neutral, unbiased, objective worldview. They couldn't be more wrong. They are not even aware of all the flawed presuppositions that their paradigm assumes. They see the world through a lens carefully crafted by the banking elite and secret society occultists that filtered them into a certain way of thinking.
They believe that natural, traditional ways of doing things (for example, the man is the head of the household, the wife submits and obeys, etc.) are evil oppressive fascist social forces that must be destroyed to allow their UNNATURAL systems to take over.
I will give you another very simple and obvious example: trannies. It does not get more gnostic than this. Mutilating and destroying their physical body to become what they think they really are supposed to be on the inside. As if the soul and the body are completely separate and have nothing to do with each other. And in this modern world you are expected to be a tranny enabler or you will be cancelled. Gnosticism is the mandatory religion of global homos.

[Anonymous No.18371670]

It's amazing how people are able to talk and write so much without saying anything of substance.

[Anonymous No.18371684]

>>18364635
post it

[Anonymous No.18371685]

>>18371235
What can I read from sloterdijk? I don't know much german and I am jewish

[Anonymous No.18371691]

>>18371670
Liberals never say anything of substance. It's all just blah blah blah, social forces, system racism, internalized toxic patriarchy, cisheteronormative, diversity, blah blah blah

[Anonymous No.18371712]

>>18371691
Pretty much, just pilpul and word games.

[Anonymous No.18371715]

lmao what a retarded thread about some irrelevant idiot

[Anonymous No.18371821]

>>18364635.
Cringe brainlet

[Anonymous No.18371899]

>>18371424
Yearn, the pearl-clutching about this “insurrection” has been insufferable. Even the use of that term is obnoxious since it’s clear as day that the everyday activities Wal-Mart, Amazon, Google, Exxon, Harvard, Stanford, etc. are a greater threat to the continued existence of the country than what happened at the capitol.

[Anonymous No.18371914]

>All character has been written out of the formula and the question of health is abdicated to questions of accident and enduring a great collective wound.

>This character is written into the proposed solution, an unending series of vaccines for a virus with countless strains. and the willingness to endure rounds of testing mandated along with the incredible risks of a manufactured cure. A form of medicine mobilised to diseases which maim and humiliate rather than kill. This is what the critics miss, Covid-19 is perfectly suited for a technicalised humanity in a permanent state of transition, the perfect plague for a type of human who can no longer distinguish between sickness and health, and who has reduced medicine to a pure function, one which replicates the patterns of disease and inhibits anything but further technicalisation and revealing of symptoms. The medicalised instrument aims at nothing more than what may be located, then hit hard by complimentary instruments which necessitate ever deeper reliance on a diseased vision.

[Anonymous No.18371933]

>>18371620
>>18371620
>>18371620
Enlightenmentfags absolutely BTFO beyond recovery!!

[Anonymous No.18371944]

>>18371899
How do normies condemn some boomers larping around at the capitol when they just spent the last year cheering on and applauding BLM and Antifa terrorists???
The entirety of 2020 has to be the biggest gaslighting psyop event since 9 11.

[Anonymous No.18371951]

>>18364410
>He used to call Judith Butler a degenerate stinking bitch and make fun of w*men and feminism.
I want to believe you, but I don't.

[Anonymous No.18371955]

>>18371951
He says it somewhere in this talk. I remember it.
https://youtu.be/_x0eyNkNpL0

[Anonymous No.18372028]

>>18371821

I'm just going to barge in here and urge everyone to check out Byung-Chul Han rather than listen to this one guy

[Anonymous No.18372039]

>>18372028
Anything in particular by him?

[Anonymous No.18372057]

>>18371483
>>18371620
No one can refute these posts.
Marxists are pseuds.
Liberals are pseuds.
I am smarter than all of you.

[Anonymous No.18372061]

>>18371944
I think you’ve missed the point. Protests, riots and “insurrections” gain support if people support the goals they claim to be working towards. The real threats to the continued existence of this nation are the everyday activities of global corporations and the institutions and individuals who support them. Someone living a completely normal life in LA or NYC is actively doing more harm to the nation than someone rioting in the streets or inside some government building. We are under attack from what seems mundane. The extreme events that dazzle us from time to time are either reflections of it or distractions from it.

[Anonymous No.18372080]

Anyone have Agamben's blog with the essays?

[Anonymous No.18372087]

>>18371944
They believe that George Floyd was murdered by a racist, that the police are widely racist, and that black people are being lynched in current year.
They also believe the election fraud was completely disproven, and the capitol rioters were dangerous racist terrorists trying to overthrow democracy.
Their worldviews are completely different from yours, because they are NPCs programmed by years of propaganda. You can't rationalize with them, it's all emotional and social for them.

[Anonymous No.18372090]

>>18371955
>You can Google her, she is my theoretical enemy, personally good friend, Judith Butler, Gender Travel
and so on. Once I behaved very rudely towards her, in a friendly way but I use vulgar words.
Like, I--I wanted to ask her if a friend of her is also a lesbian like her and I put it
and I'm ashamed. I said something like, "Is she also a degenerate stinking bitch like
you?" Okay, it wasn't nice. So, I wonder why she felt hurt. So, afterwards, I called her
by the phone and told her, "Listen, Judie, my god, I don’t know what it was. It's my
extremely bad taste. I really apologize." She was very nice. And she told me, "Listen,
Slavoj, I know you. No problem. We are friends. Let's be serious. No apology is needed." But
did you get the paradox of this situation? She was able to say, "No apology is needed,"
only after I did apologize. That's the normal logic. If I were not to apologize, she would
have been offended. And I would have been probably a little bit offended if she were
to say, "Good, I deserve the apology. Don't do this again." You see the paradox? I made
an offer of apology; she said it's not necessary. But in this way, that's how it functions normally.
This level of ideology fascinated me.

So that's it?

[Anonymous No.18372108]

>>18372061
Sounds like weak justification for chimp outs

[Anonymous No.18372130]

>>18371944
>>18372087
Don't try to think about, it we live in era of post-truth where facts don't matter

[Anonymous No.18372177]

>>18372028
I read The Burnout Society. It had some good insights, but for the most part it was everything bad you could expect from “theory:” broad, unsubstantiated generalizations, empty posturing, hackneyed literary analysis, etc. It amazes me how he managed tokay sixty pages feel like such a slog.

[Anonymous No.18372193]

>>18371914
Based

[Anonymous No.18372195]

>>18371483
There are some similarities--both tend to be humanist & concerned with social oppression--but it's quite a stretch to say they're the same. Marxism stresses class conflict as pre-eminent throughout history. That all of history is oppressor vs. oppressed with oppressor getting to define social norms because they control the means of production. And Marx derived much of his philosophy from Hegel who as far as I understand was neither an empiricist nor a materialist.
Modern liberalism is also concerned with oppression, but is much more concerned with individual autonomy and a limited government which ensures peoples natural rights.
Finally your use of enlightenment is vague. The Enlightenment was not a single thing, but a broad movement containing many different and contradictory philosophies.

[Anonymous No.18372286]

>>18372130
No evidence was provided for election fraud. It was a mistake to focus on it when the real issue with our elections is that metropolitan areas within our world today makes their residents for the most part citizens of the global economy before they are citizens of their nation. This ultimately means that all elections are tainted because a sizable amount of the voter base are incapable of considering the interest of the nation when they vote. This is the real issue at hand.

[Anonymous No.18372290]

>>18372108
those are just consumerism by other means and as such acceptable. zizek coincidentally wrote about this after the UK riots in 2011, that they paradoxically reinforced the system as such since all the rioters could think to do was take stuff rather than, say, burn down the police stations or seize the BBC

[Anonymous No.18372318]

>>18372286
the urban/rural binary is a romantic fiction. it's really a divide between two kinds of urbanism. the countryside isn't populated by a yeomanry, it's former workers and their children made surplus by global trade or industrial agribusiness and its attendant migrant work force

[Anonymous No.18372338]

>>18362614
Individual liberty as it is thought of in western democracies cannot exist without collective safety.

[Anonymous No.18372364]

>>18371088
quoting kaczynski is on the same level as quoting starwars

[Anonymous No.18372384]

>>18372364
elaborate on that

[Anonymous No.18372385]

>>18372108
It’s not justification (I’m not interested in doing material analysis as apologetics like liberals tend to do), but you have to understand the social forces at work. Globalization and the urbanization of the educated workforce (which is increasing its numbers in our technological society) led to unprecedented white participation in race riots, the systematic takeover of academia by the left led to a similar take over of the tech industry which allowed them to use online platforms to informally regulate society and push it leftward, the election that occurred the day before the capitol riot was made possible by these things, and I believe it and the message it sent (that the way of life desired by a sizeable portion of the population is now out of reach by through normal and legal means) was more of a contributor to what happened at the capitol than anything Trump said or did. None of these things catch our eyes like those destructive evens, but they are what is actively causing the decay. Don’t get distracted by the symptoms.

[Anonymous No.18372470]

>>18366648
Jehu is a joke.

[Anonymous No.18372551]

>>18372364
t. oversocialized midwit

[Anonymous No.18372611]

>>18372364
imagine being this much of an idiot

[hungryman !!5BI0oSV9uvS No.18372635]

>>18364634
You have never left America.

[Anonymous No.18372638]

>>18362614
>keynesian centrist economic.
AKA barbarism.

Face it: Socialism is inevitable.

[Anonymous No.18372724]

>>18367549
a yes the extremely smooth transition of the fall of the roman empire till the medival age nothing was diturbed within this period untill the evil renaissance came which brought back ideas from before and thats bad somehow

[Anonymous No.18372846]

Economics is pseudo-science. You will get as much of an intellectually rigorous analysis from a witch doctor or a psychic fortune teller as an (((economist))).

[Anonymous No.18372869]

>>18362789
>the popularity of Bernie Sanders and AOC.
>a hack who could never get anything done (other than scamming the American people out of “donations for a campaign” twice) and a literal shill who can’t speak without a script in front of her
So this is the power of the new left...

[Anonymous No.18372929]

>>18372869
Here is what I don't understand about politics in this country. Why isn't there someone who is economically left wing, supportive of the working class, against big corporations and media, but without any of that pozzed social progressive garbage that dominates the Democratic party?
There would be a huge voter base for someone like that but there is no one there with those values. The American political paradigm is you are either some neocon cuck or some feminist, anti-white, LGBT supporting, BLM supporting, open borders, liberal scumbag

[Anonymous No.18372953]

>>18372929
Because every single shit tier political characteristic you just named was literally engineered by glowies to keep social and economic change at bay.
Anyway, being economically left and supportive of the working class is an oxymoron: a big government grows on the back of the workers until it breaks them.

[Anonymous No.18372996]

>>18372869
>Bernie Sanders
What an absolute fraud and liberal shill.
Of course he just happens to be Jewish too.

[Anonymous No.18373043]

>>18372364
yet he was right.

[Anonymous No.18373081]

>>18362853
sounds based desu

[Anonymous No.18373089]

Is Aleksandr Dugin our guy, anons

[Anonymous No.18373351]

>>18362853
The Right isn't going to restart history, we're still firmly within a democratic, egalitarian, victimary moral framework.

[Anonymous No.18373367]

>>18373351
>we're still firmly within a democratic, egalitarian, victimary moral framework.
Yeah but aren't people getting sick and tired of it

[Anonymous No.18373374]

>>18371346
>Tfw anticipating Venezuelan-Peruvian gold farmer wars on MMORPGs in light of yet another LatAm country becoming Communist

[Anonymous No.18373385]

>>18373367
No? Left-wing politics are more popular than ever and will increase in popularity over the next decade. "The People" don't have thoughts so they can't "get tired" of it.

[Anonymous No.18373404]

>>18373385
>Left-wing politics are more popular than ever
Are you talking about economic leftism or are you talking about social progressive woke bullshit

[Anonymous No.18373441]

>>18373404
Social progressive woke bullshit is all that Leftism is anymore, so I mean yeah, Leftism is more popular than ever. Unfortunately leftists are too fucking stupid and filled with ressentiment to realize that all their politics are produced by liberalism and that they are basically just accelerating it by supporting everything that destroys society like identity politics, LGBT and individualism

[Anonymous No.18373459]

>>18373441
I don't know. Maybe you are right. But I thought that younger millennials/zoomers or whatever are getting fed up with all this woke crap and becoming more anti-liberal.

[Anonymous No.18373487]

>>18373404
>"REAL economic leftism!"
Did you miss the memo, no one cares about Marxism-Leninism and nationalization of industry after 1968 or so.

>>18373459
Still continually baffled by the idea that "the People" have political thoughts/opinions that aren't just a reflection of authority, did you miss the whole 20th Century?

[Anonymous No.18373510]

>>18373459
No, they're almost universally progressive now. The only alternative to it is mainstream conservatism which is dying anyways and inevitably going to fade away. Woke shit is the status quo and you can't get rid of it since it's so contingent on liberal capitalism and our material conditions, especially with social media. Just something everyone has to deal with from now on, and leftists will be sure to support it until the end of time

[Anonymous No.18373513]

>>18373487
>Still continually baffled by the idea that "the People" have political thoughts/opinions that aren't just a reflection of authority, did you miss the whole 20th Century?
What do you mean?

[Anonymous No.18373516]

>>18362614
>Meh. False dichotomy fallacy. I think there’s still three option; keynesian centrist economic.
So barbarism.

[Anonymous No.18373534]

>>18373510
So you think that the resurgence of right wing nationalist, anti-liberal ideas on the Internet will never go anywhere? It will never achieve anything more than larping and nothing will change?

[Anonymous No.18373544]

>>18373513
A democratic majority of people in society are basically just cattle to be herded by social engineers, sadly. In the 20th Century Party-States got their population to acquiesce to ratting out their neighbors to the security services over trivialities, to kill all sparrows (lol), kill anyone with glasses (lol), throw the Jews in the gas chamber, etc. How does one reconcile the relative ease with which this was accomplished with theories of "Human Agency" or "The People" as a historical subject?

[Anonymous No.18373559]

>>18373544
>throw the Jews in the gas chamber
The social engineering and propaganda worked on you too

[Anonymous No.18373565]

>>18373534
Not him, but nope, it will achieve absolutely nothing because it has no cachet with authority. The children of people who can afford to buy policy are learning to check their privilege, acknowledge their white fragility, the moral righteousness of third-world immigration, the wickedness of nationalism and how it inevitably leads to fascism (the ultimate evil), that correct grammar or advanced math courses are racist, and so on.

[Anonymous No.18373597]

>>18373534
The world is run by institutions, not schizos on the internet. If you can't institutionally get rid of liberal capitalism then you won't be able to get rid of any social consequence of it. China doesn't have a problem with this shit because they regulate their culture and their markets, while America openly encourages woke shit at the highest levels of government.

The problem is that leftists refuse to admit their beliefs are being promoted by the same system they claim to hate, and conservatives refuse to acknowledge that Liberalism is the cause of all these problems. Both sides are pointing fingers at shit that doesn't even exist, and they're ignoring the role that liberalism plays. So why should anyone expect anything to change? We really are at a point where history has ended or is at least decadent, we're stuck in this system and no one is trying to give an alternative. They just complain about Marxists or white supremacists like its 1939.

[Anonymous No.18373598]

>>18373565
I know two people exactly like this and they really are like boring, soulless NPCs. The memes are real. When you talk to them it is like they are genuinely incapable of having an independent thought that wasn't shoved down their throat by the media. It is honestly mind blowing when you come to the full realization that some people literally cannot think for themselves.
One of them is a journalist

[Anonymous No.18373620]

>>18373597
>China has... regulations!
So does the US, it's called Civil Rights Law. Civil Rights Law and racial equality as a religious belief mandate "woke" policies.

>>18373598
>some
At least 2/3 lel, it's actually the worst among middle-class strivers like journalists because they're the most eager to show their deference to authority to increase their social status.

[Anonymous No.18373662]

>>18373620
The amazing part is how they are actually convinced they are the enlightened free thinkers and the right are brainwashed sheep

[Anonymous No.18373676]

>>18373662
It's not like there aren't right-wing NPCs as well, it's just most egregious coming from leftists because we live in a broadly left-wing era that's still reacting to WW2.

[Anonymous No.18373708]

>>18373676
>It's not like there aren't right-wing NPCs as well
Yeah definitely. The Ben Shapiro/Jordan Peterson types are no better than the leftoid trannies. But I meant the more intelligent and illiberal right, the kind that has no spokesperson in the mainstream media.

[Anonymous No.18373726]

>>18373676
>still reacting to WW2.
It is literally the region of the modern world. That is why you are not allowed to question the narrative or deny it. WW2 is the foundation myth, whiteness is sin, Hitler is Satan, etc. You can have your political discussions but you cannot go against these basic doctrines or you are a heretic and you will be cancelled and arrested.

[Anonymous No.18373728]

>>18373708
>>18373676
>>18373662
>actually being this much of a wingbrain
Spending this much of your waking hours dedicated to seething about irrelevant nonsense is about as NPC as it gets.

[Anonymous No.18373736]

>>18373726
>region
*religion

[Anonymous No.18373746]

>>18373728
I'm not seething at all.

[Anonymous No.18373755]

>>18373746
If you self-describe as belonging to any sort of "wing" you are brainwashed to participate in the liberal culture war by default.

[Anonymous No.18373768]

>>18373755
I am not in "a wing" of politics, I do not participate in elections or even care what happens to the economic zone I inhabit at all, as I can now afford to buy my way out of any forseeable future problems.

[Anonymous No.18373842]

Look, we all want a party that protects our worker rights, and gives a piece of the pie while at the same letting us say faggot. But it’s not happening. I think talk of the right abandoning liberalism is fun to speculate but never gonna happen. The right is coming up with some fun ideas right now because they’re not in power. When or if they are back in power, capital is gonna absorb any funny ideas real quick.

[Anonymous No.18373855]

>>18362614
The pandemic objectively proved that Fukuyama was right and the only reason people hate his ideas are because they’re unsatisfying, not because they’re wrong.

[Anonymous No.18373862]

>>18372385
Call it whatever you want. You're doing apologia for chimping out niggers and drug dealers. You are not smart, just compromised.

[Anonymous No.18373905]

>>18372929
Why would they be? The democrats know that minority turnout is necessary for their success (sufficient black turnout is the difference between them winning and losing almost every single national election), and they know that their white base supports it too.

[Anonymous No.18373914]

>>18373905
A lot more traditional working class whites might be drawn to it if they stop all the social justice trash

[Anonymous No.18373938]

>>18373862
I'm really not. When people do that, they start clutching their pearls when people gett aggressive towards rioters. I hat least have enough sense to acknowledge that such reactions are a response to the immediate material conditions created by riots.

[Anonymous No.18374020]

>>18373597
Woke shit is not an artifact of 'liberal capitalism.' Capitalists are going woke to survive, not out of their own interests.

[Anonymous No.18374030]

>>18373728
When you guys try to use our words you always torture them into something completely different. "Snowflake" goes from 'sensitive SJW' to 'anyone who disagrees with something.' Now 'NPC' doesn't mean 'unthinking servant of power' but 'posts online.' The only memetic power the left has is in taking our ideas and making them lame.

[Anonymous No.18374040]

>>18373755
Right on comrade, only those who advocate a global proletarian revolution are outside the false dialectic right?

[Anonymous No.18374047]

>>18373914
For one, they can't stop, for two, nope. Been tried before. Working class whites simply don't want commie shit.

>I'm really not. When people do that, they start clutching their pearls when people gett aggressive towards rioters. I hat least have enough sense to acknowledge that such reactions are a response to the immediate material conditions created by riots.
What "material conditions"? They are starving? No. They are unable to buy the newest nikes or iphones? No. They are bored, stupid, and riot when they are told to riot? Yes. "Material conditions" as an explanation for anything was falsified the moment starvation stopped being a pressing concern.

[Anonymous No.18374543]

>>18371346
>I think the most important political thing that is happening right now is Peru where a Marxist-Leninist schoolteacher came out of nowhere and is leading the rural copper miners (many of whom are indigenous)
I could not possibly care any less about what 85 IQ cave men are doing. You are a fucking faggot lmao

[Anonymous No.18374703]

>>18364073
It was coming a mile away that anyone could've predicted that.

[Anonymous No.18374757]

>>18364250
What's the deal with over-educated leftists who uncritically go with the political grain? They say one thing, but then say it's a moral imperative that we support and participate in these movements. As much as they like to masturbate over Michel Foucault's AIDS ridden corpse, they fail to realize power has shifted to their side by taking control of the academic, psychological, and media institutions, and have become the oppressors in the power dynamic. I can't take any academic leftist as being honest when they just go with the flow uncritically and have the power to do so, which vindicates everything Foucault has ever said on power relations but in the opposite. I don't get it. If Foucault were still alive, he would be critical of political correctness to say the least.

[Anonymous No.18374760]

>>18374757
Foucalt was a sick pedo creep like all leftoids and liberals.

[Anonymous No.18374768]

>>18374760
We all know that. Do you have anything of substance to say.

[Anonymous No.18374857]

>>18366662
>surname sounds like Slaughter Dykes

[Anonymous No.18374867]

>>18362614
There are no other options, we're born into the chains, we live in the choke collar, and we'll die in bondage. The elites born of old allowed musical chairs to be played, but have since sequestered the bourgeois within their own ranks, and have promoted the system through lottery ticket odds, daft fools chase the impossible and die trying under the immense labor all pooled and divided and to what end? The dominion over their fellow. Voting is without purpose if there is no recompense for the failure to represent, and the blind, the slothful, and the invalid all toss their wealth, without even a modicum of discretion, to their overlords. Action is all words now, which accomplish nothing. We've been pressed so perfectly into the shape of cogs that we don't even realize we're senseless components working to our very own demise.

[Anonymous No.18375166]

>>18362698
5/10

[Anonymous No.18375174]

>>18372364
That quote is still right nonetheless prof.

[Anonymous No.18375259]

>>18374867
Yeah, Camus was a bullshitter.

[Anonymous No.18375283]

>>18375259
I've only read The Plague, you'll have to elucidate me.

[Anonymous No.18375285]

>>18362661
I really don't see why you take so much glee in mocking wagies. Their discontent will cause the end of this society

[Anonymous No.18375317]

You dumb fucks are missing the point about the Right. The Right isn't going to win because it wins the argument or any stupid bullshit like that. The Right is going to win because the Right isn't afraid to kill people, and never has been, which is a major reason why right-wingers are so overrepresented in lethal occupations like policing and the military. Leftists, and also boring Woke liberals, are all mostly focused on soft power. But what will win the day is hard power. At the end of the day, the side that is willing to pull the guns out and pull the triggers is going to win, because everything is going to go up in smoke when people start getting killed.

[Anonymous No.18375492]

>>18375317
This is delusional post

[Anonymous No.18375521]

>>18375492
No it isn't. This entire THREAD is more delusional than that post. How the fuck do you assholes THINK things are going to change? You bitch and bitch about capitalism's domination, about the strangulation of the neoliberal system, about Fukuyama being proven correct. Well, in the face of no reasonable way to alter this state of affairs, what the fuck do you think is going to start happening? What's going to start happening is unreasonable behavior, and this is inevitably going to involve actual violence and bloodshed. There is inevitably going to be a certain critical threshold past which a certain percentage of the population believes that the only way to achieve their goals is by force, by violence. It's happened over and over throughout history. Why would our own time be any different? All that's in question is what the threshold will be, and when we'll reach it. We don't have some special immunity to social unrest and bloodshed because we happen to live in the 21st century.

[Anonymous No.18375599]

>>18375521
>what the fuck do you think is going to start happening?
Economic collapse is pretty much inevitable at this point

[Anonymous No.18375646]

>>18375599
And what happens when the economy collapses, especially in nations with strong militaries and lots of guns?

[Anonymous No.18376798]

>>18375646
Chaos and new dark age

[Anonymous No.18376827]

>>18364073
Trump announced his 1/6 before Christmas.

[Anonymous No.18377077]

[Anonymous No.18377141]

>>18362614
I like Zizek as a personality and he has a few interesting things to say, but I'm getting exhausted with people who sound like a Hegelian excerpt whenever they talk about the world.

I know you need to use certain terms and ideologies to describe complex situations and structures, but there seems to be a point where their utility begins to take a backseat to a fetishistic, almost Marvel-esque fandom veneration of all these different ideological systems and sub-systems purely for the sake of how the words themselves sound. It ironically ends up making Zizek sound like something out of a major marketing firm's boardroom. Empty jargon that runs in circles with no actual aim or objective other than sounding like it's getting something done.

Like I said, I'm not against using certain terminologies to convey ideas, but you eventually also have to learn to talk like an academic AND a regular human being. Otherwise you just sound like someone who read a bunch of words in a book and is regurgitating them out in a randomized order, rather than someone who's taking information and synthesizing it, consistently and continually, into new points and perspectives.

*sniff*

[Anonymous No.18378321]

>>18377141
He barely has anything interesting to say, 90% of his stuff is mental masturbation.