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/lit/ - Literature

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18251984 No.18251984 [Reply] [Original]

Is this any good, fellas? Or should I ask /sci/ instead?

>> No.18251998
File: 774 KB, 245x170, CB94C03B-6A25-4DDF-AAAE-74FD34580318.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18251998

They rarely mention it.

>> No.18252007

>>18251984
Not sure who it was written for. Looks like popsci but It contains more math than most undergrad physics textbooks.
His tensor calculus notations are also hard to follow

>> No.18252009

>>18251998
what's this from?

>> No.18252013

>>18252007
His math is pretty straightforward, physicists are just brainlets.
t. math masters gigachad

>> No.18252048

Penrose is based. Haven't read any of his books, much prefer listening to lectures. His stuff on microtubules is very interesting, unfortunately he's said that his past books on the subject are dated. Wish he would release something new on the topic.

>> No.18252056
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18252056

>>18252009
One of my favourite movies. Happy-Go-Lucky

>> No.18252061

>>18251984
It's excellent, but also hard as shit. It will take you a long time to read, but it's worth it.

>> No.18252257
File: 289 KB, 576x2992, smbc.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18252257

One of the most ambitious works I've seen since Whitehead & Russell's Principia and Knuth's TAOCP


>>18252048
>microtubules

debunked
I'll give Penrose a pass since he's been interested in consciousness since his early years but he should stick to physics.

>> No.18252324

>>18252257
His work on consciousness is the most based thing about him, soijak

>> No.18252343

>>18252324
Confirmed pseud, go back to reading your Michio Kaku popsci garbage about consciousness, quantum woo, and the singularity redditor

His best work is twistor theory.

>> No.18252353

>>18252343
Why so angry, p-zombie? I will happily continue reading Husseirl, Nagel, and Chalmers, because unlike you, I am a conscious being.

>> No.18252363

>>18252324
I've never heard basedjak used as an insult. What does that mean? Like they're the one depicted in a basedjak image?

>> No.18252365

>>18252353
>p-zombies

Unphysical metaphysical mumbojumbo just like qualia. No wonder why philosophers don't get anything done. Don't pretend like you've read Penrose beyond his most layman-accessible popsci hogwash.

>> No.18252366

>>18252363
shit I forgot about the filter. I thought it was ->onions though, not ->based. weird

>> No.18252375

>>18252365
Explain something to me. Why do people like you always jump to credentials when they are losing an argument? I have seen the "lmao I bet you haven't even read his real work" so many times. It is egregious. I am a physics PhD student. 99% I am more familiar with Penrose's work than you are.
In other news, you are a p-zombie and nothing you say matters.

>> No.18252379

>>18251984
Its basically a textbook

>> No.18252385

>>18252375
The thread is about Road to Reality. Not his pseudoscience work on microtubules that is rejected by rejected by neuroscientists, philosophers, and physicists alike.

>. I am a physics PhD student.
Yet you sound like a first year philosophy undergrad.

>> No.18252392

>>18252375
Post thesis right now larper.

>> No.18252400

>>18252385
I didn't literally mean I have a PhD LOL retard. I just meant we can all play pretend we have credentials online.

>Yet you sound like a first year philosophy undergrad.

But I'm in high school so thanks idiot. You just called me smart

>>18252392
Don't know what that is.

>> No.18252413

>>18252385
Will you make me post the image that shows that physicists are more likely to hold anti-physicalist views than laymen? I really don't want to dig through my folders but you are leaving me no choice.

>>18252392
I haven't even started and I am not posting my master's thesis either, nice try fbi.
It's about high energy physics

>>18252400
fuck off faggot

>> No.18252416

>>18252400
absolutely demolished him

>> No.18252420

>>18252385
>ignores the 700 pages on consciousness and philosophy of mathematics in general
>attacks the one thing which penrose himself said is merely a hypothesis and likely untrue

>> No.18252421

>>18252413
the guy pretending to be you owned him better than you did, anon

>> No.18252432

>>18252413
I fucking knew you were a larping faggot. At best you're a dilettante. At worst you're some kid who gets off on pretending someone he's not on 4chan.

>> No.18252434

>>18252432
not an argument

>> No.18252435

>>18252400
Lol demolished. Retard should think twice before pretending to have a PhD.

>> No.18252439

>>18252413
Hey you should thank for me having your back and pretending to be you lol. I owned that guy for you bud.

>> No.18252440
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18252440

>>18252439
But the guy above you says it is me you owned.
Thanks, fren

>> No.18252444
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18252444

>>18252413
>I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE
>I LOVE IT SO MUCH I GOT MY REDDIT PHD IN SCIENCE (tm)

Nice try schizo.

>> No.18252447

>>18252444
>still can't give an argument
>still continues ad hominems
Back to /pol/

>> No.18252448

>>18252416
lol the idiot waving his fancy """degre""" around got owned. thanks

>> No.18252451
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18252451

>>18252440
I JUST LOVE WHEN SCIENTISTS TALK ABOUT SHIT THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RIGHT /R/ATHEISM BROS? GO SCIENCE

>> No.18252452

>>18252451
See >>18252447

>> No.18252453

>>18252452
>>18252447
Explain something to me. Why do people like you always jump to credentials when they are losing an argument? I have seen the "lmao I bet you haven't even read his real work" so many times. It is egregious. I am a physics PhD student. 99% I am more familiar with Penrose's work than you are.
In other news, you are a p-zombie and nothing you say matters.

>> No.18252454

god I have no idea who is who at this point. Nice chaotic argument though

>> No.18252457

>>18252447
>Back to /pol/
>>18252448
>>18252432
>>18252434
>>18252421
>>18252420
You're playing yourself samefag p-zombie. The guy who got his degree in physics is way smarter than you.

>> No.18252459

>>18252454
Some faggot keeps posting at post cooldown intervals after claiming science debooooonks consciousness, so it is probably he arguing with himself

>> No.18252464

.>>18252454
I got my PhD in Penrose so I know 99% more about him than the tubules in your brain does, I can say unequivocally that his best work is in microzombies

>>18252452
Wrong idiot.

>> No.18252465
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18252465

>>18252457

>> No.18252469

>>18252465
nice try, image doctor

>> No.18252470

>>18252459
Yeah I don't know what's going on. I just wanted /lit/s opinion on the book and some guy said something about microtubules and he started fighting with some other guy. Look I'm not interested at all in the philosophy of consciousness maybe I should've just taken this to /sci/ to begin with since this is more of a literature board and you guys know nothing about physics.

>> No.18252473

>>18252470
>I'm not interested at all in the philosophy of consciousness
>maybe I should've just taken this to /sci/
Anon, I...

>> No.18252474

>>18252465
>OHHHH I GOT MY PHD IN SAMEFAGGING AND YOU'RE A LAYMAN

Shut the fuck up dweeb.

>> No.18252477

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

>> No.18252480

>>18252375
>>18252365
>>18252353
>>18252343
>>18252324
>>18252048
I don't know why you two retards are shitting up a perfectly good thread. The guy's life work is on twistors and blackholes so the fact that you guys are saying it's on brains shows how much you know. Now gtfo the thread.

>> No.18252481

>>18252469
bruh, ok whatever. I always type in all lowercase with the exception of I's, and I'd be surprised if I planned that out ahead of this whole "accusing people of samefagging" deal. I'm not involved in the argument lol, I just liked the one "I'm a highschooler reply"

>> No.18252485

>>18252480
No one said that, dyslexic fag

>>18252481
We stand debooooonked

>> No.18252486

>>18252485
I'll bonk your dad

>> No.18252487

>>18252481
What do you think about Chalmer's Japanese Room argument against soft consciousness huh? Oh wait you don't know shit about it because you're don't have PhD in armchair neuroscience like me.

>> No.18252488
File: 134 KB, 974x998, soyman.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18252488

>>18252487
>neuroscience

>> No.18252489

>>18252487
I thought it was a chinese room? or was that about someone learning language with textbooks or some shit? also what's the difference between soft and hard consciousness

>> No.18252491
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18252491

>>18252353
>demolishes concept of p-zombies entirely

>> No.18252494

god /sci/ fags are always this much cringe

>> No.18252496

>>18252491
I thought p-zombies weren't a real thing to begin with, they were just a thought experiment

>>18252488
>basedman.png
do you have these images... downloaded and ready to go? do you have a folder?

>> No.18252498

>>18252491
http://www.jaronlanier.com/zombie.html
checkmate, atheist

>> No.18252500

>>18252496
fucking hell the soi->based filter
what if I type onions green or basedbean or tsoying

>> No.18252503

>>18252496
Dennett says makes a case that they can't exist even in principle.

>>18252494
Adults are talking here. Go read Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions and Popper's Logic of Scientific Discovery and then get back me.

>> No.18252504

>>18252503
Dennett is onions and cringe.

>telling people ro read Popper as an insult
Hoy based

>> No.18252505

>>18252500
Do you usually sip on your onions kombucha while reading chalmers?

>> No.18252508

>>18252503
>>18252504
AHHHHH I didn't mean to say onions, I wanted to say something else but janny filters interfered wtf?

>>18252505
>>18252500
wtf even is an onion? What is the meme?

>> No.18252509

>>18252504
Popper is what separates real science from your endless philosophical circlejerking.

>> No.18252513

>>18252509
Wait, did you mean it unironically?
KYS, Popper faggot, he not a real philosopher and completely destroyed by Strauss.

>> No.18252516

>>18252513
I can tell you don't have a PhD in music. Strauss was destroyed by Mozart and Beethoven.

>> No.18252517

>>18252508
onions was a meme that meant the opposite of soi. it's like a predecessor to chad I guess? there's an automatic filter to convert the word to onions, but also to based..? I think it depends on the context of the word

>> No.18252521
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18252521

>> No.18252522
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18252522

>>18252503
>go read x and y
so you're just a worshiper. i get it now

>> No.18252526

>>18252522
>thinking the scientific method is some unchanging monolith

You're a fucking moron who doesn't know the first thing about the history of science. You can jerk off about 'muh hard science' all you want but why do you think there's a crisis right now regarding demarcation of physics between string theorists and experimentalists and both sides are consulting philosophers of physics.

>> No.18252527

>>18252522
something difficult about this argument the image has is... are you just not supposed to trust any research? What if you review their methodology, then is it okay to believe?

>> No.18252531
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18252531

>>18252522

I know someone who unironically thinks like on the right and whenever backed into a corner he goes "well I work in technology (IT) and I make more money than you"

>> No.18252533
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18252533

>>18252509
Oh nononononono

>> No.18252535

>>18252522
>>18252513
Let me guess you also think climate change is real science when the average "climate scientist" has never taken a course in nonlinear dynamics at the graduate level?

>> No.18252537

>>18252531
"I make more money than you" is a pretty based (retard) argument though, not gonna lie.

>>18252535
climate change *is* real science, what?

>> No.18252539

>>18252535
>muh climate change
>muh vaccines
Wrong board, Poppertard

>> No.18252540
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18252540

>>18252522
>>18252533
>HOW DARE YOU GATEKEEP SCIENCE. FALSIFICATIONISM IS DEAD WHITE MALE SCIENCE REAL SCIENCE IS DIVERSE LIKE GENDER STUDIES

>> No.18252542

>>18252540
#noipixiedust #empowered #youarenotconscious #BLM

>> No.18252547
File: 176 KB, 974x878, science.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18252547

>>18252537
>>18252539
>thinks climate change is science

The level of ameritard education ladies and gentlemen. Let me guess you think 'peer review' is people 'replicating your experiments'?

>> No.18252552

>>18252540
It's good to encourage girls and black children into pursuing a career in science. Nothing wrong with that. Don't really see what the problem with that image is. Is it because you dislike her hair?

>> No.18252554

>>18252522
>>18252542
>>18252540
>>18252539
>>18252533
>>>/pol/

>> No.18252555

>>18252547
Lol, I bet you dont even have a PhD in atmospheric physics like me

>> No.18252560

>>18252547
Wait, you're an unironic climate skeptic? Are you also against the COVID vaccine? I've never actually met one of you in real life so it's hard to believe you're real.

>> No.18252561
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18252561

>>18252555
>atmospheric physics
oh no no no

>> No.18252563

>>18252554
>Voegelin
>/pol/
You are the most retarded person on this board right now. I will personally buy you some rope if you give me your address.

>> No.18252567

>>18252560
I have PhD in physics. see

>>18252375
Climate Science is physics.

>> No.18252572

>>18252533
>>18252522
>>18252504
No I'm really curious. Why do you think 'trusting in experts' is wrong? Are you also a flat earther? Were you dropped as a baby?

>> No.18252576

>>18252567
That doesn't really answer either of my questions

>> No.18252578

>>18252560
>>18252555
Ignore him. Someone who believes consciousness arises from quantum woo in microtubules will obviously believe in anything Alex Jones says.

>> No.18252579

>>18252572
I don't think anything of the sort, I am just pointing out the fact that Popper was a complete fucking charlatan

>> No.18252584

>>18251984
I am sorry, OP, we are not always like this, you should post this some other time. The thread got invaded by Popper and Dennett faggots, who are the lowest of the lowest we have.

>> No.18252586

>>18252579
Yet climate scientists cite him all the time. Why are you against climate science?

>> No.18252587

>>18252572
>Why do you think 'trusting in experts' is wrong?
oh look at him, now i can see his nose

>> No.18252590

>>18252586
I am not, I have a PhD in atmospheric physics.

>> No.18252591
File: 365 KB, 500x775, 1614824366842.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18252591

>>18252572

How do you know who an expert is and which expert to trust? Did an expert tell you to only trust experts? :)

>> No.18252592

>>18252584
The thread was about physics until one of you deepakchopra fags started talking about consciousness because layman who don't understand physics always want to drag the conversation down to pseudoscience.

This is why OP should've started the thread on /sci/.

>> No.18252596

>>18252591
Answer the question
>>18252560
Are you against the covid vaccine? Are you against black people in science?

>> No.18252601

>>18252590
I would interpret
>against climate science
as
>against the general consensus held by climate scientists
in that comment

>> No.18252605

>>18252592
There is not a single worthwhile sentence about physics in the entire thread. It got sidetracked because some idiot implied physicalism is true and if you don't agree you are a /pol/tard layman who should trust the experts.

>> No.18252606

>>18252591
I want to have sex with 2b's thighs

>> No.18252607

>>18252591
>>18252590
>>18252587
>>18252592
I don't understand how you idiots can support Popper when Strauss btfo'd him half a century ago. It's like you don't know anything about real science.

>> No.18252609

>>18252601
The majority of climate scientists haven't even read Popper.

>> No.18252612

>>18252605
>/sci/ thread about physics
>differential equations in latex
>/lit/ thread about physics
>MUH P-ZOMBIES MUH POPPER MUH CHALMERS

>> No.18252613

>>18252606
based random coomer who only appeared in this thread to coom

>> No.18252615

>>18252612
Have you been on /sci/, ever? You can't mention Penrose without the same exact thing happening every time.

>> No.18252624
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18252624

OP This is a superior popular physics book without the consciousness stuff.

inb4 poppertards say string theory isn't science because it can't be falsified

>> No.18252630
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18252630

>>18252596

When you can answer my questions you'll have the answer to your question. :)

>> No.18252633

>>18252607

'Real science'

What is real science and fake science? How do scientists formulate a hypothesis before applying the scientific method, retard?

>> No.18252640

>>18252633
Read this idiot
>>18252533

>> No.18252659

>>18252624
Does it have as much math as in OP's book?

>> No.18252660

>>18252640

I read it. My opinion hasn't changed. Popper is big stinky. What was I supposed to get out that?

>> No.18252670
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18252670

Damn. Reading all this reply, I guess I should've posted on sci instead.

>> No.18252671

>>18252670
it's been done >>>/sc/13139751

>> No.18252677

>>18252670
No, this thread is pretty much what sci looks like now. How far that board has fallen.

>> No.18252682

>>18252677
Answer the question fool.

>> No.18252695

>>18252670
Trust me, it would have been even worse. I feel bad for you, so I (5 PhDs in physics) will give you some answers:
1) yes, the book in the OP picture is very good, possibly the best book I know for a big-picture overview of our current understanding of sicnece
2) University Physics with Modern Physics by Young is another one you should know about if you want to go deeper. It is the de facto bible of many undergrad physics departaments and contains enough material for an entire year of full time study.
3) Penrose's books on consciousness are also very good and probably not at all like you would imagine them if you think you aren't interested in the subject. Nearly entire book of Emperor's new Mind deals with physical and mathematical issues, the take on consciousness is just the culmination at the end.
4) Other good lighter texts in related fields are The Book of Why, The Annotated Turing, Feynman's Lectures, 3blue1brown and Gelman's blog.
5) You should study math at a rigorous level no matter what your interests are. See /sci/ charts for reference.

>> No.18252713

>>18252695
Now this is a good reply. Thank you, 5 PhDs anon.

>> No.18252773
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18252773

>>18252613
Thanks, how should a layman coomer go about learning the basics of physics?

>> No.18253756
File: 19 KB, 334x499, 41mYr5xwzeL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18253756

>>18252007
This. There's a high likelihood of burning out if you're attempting to use it as a gateway into mathematical physics without a decent background. It's like it was written for a precious genius teenager without access to the internet.

>>18251984
If you just want some basic physics intro, go with Susskind's series (Theoretical Minimum). It's amazingly light for what it is and does what it sets out to do efficiently. You can move onto Penrose after if you're still interested (it's a lot denser and there's a lot more depth to explaining the math involved). It isn't an intro book at all. There;s also the Feynman lecture series and, depending on what area of physics you're interested in, stuff like Einstein's own Special Relativity.

It's a weird hybrid of a book (I think he even talks about the publisher questioning who the audience could be in the intro).

>> No.18253771

>>18252773
This: >>18253756 (Susskind's books). There's also lecture series on YouTube that go along with them.

>> No.18253937

>>18251984
IMO this is the best book to go from pop science crap to actually understanfing science. The problem with stuff like Stephen Hawking Brief history of Time is that the layman can't distinguish which words are actual scientific terminology and which is just Hawking's random opinions and bad judgements. Road To Reality makes it extremely clear what the current scope of physics is, and what sort of stuff isn't dealt with in physics. It's the best way to learn science without becoming Lord of reddit

>> No.18254008

>>18252257
how old are you that you saw the publication of principia

>> No.18254029

Anyone purporting to know the laws of the universe is a lying pseud bastard

>> No.18254101

>>18252695
>University Physics with Modern Physics by Young is another one you should know about if you want to go deeper
>deeper
Yikes, did you just say a high school level book is deeper than the book op posted?
>t. /sci/tard

>> No.18254403

>>18254101
I detest /sci/ so much. Go back to your containment board.