Why am I the only one that loves this?

[Anonymous No.18232783]

It’s such a fantastic poem, a beautiful masterpiece that has survived time and fire. And yet so many people think that when a man triumphs in battle against a savage monster with his bare hands, that this is “boring”. Why?

[Anonymous No.18232795]

>>18232783
It really is one of those ones that needs to be listened to rather than read which makes its appeal narrower, but deeper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zorjJzrrvA

[Anonymous No.18232799]

>>18232795
I did just fine reading it.

[Anonymous No.18232804]

>>18232783
>why am I the only one who loves the most famous Old English poem
You're not, /lit/ is just plebs.

[Anonymous No.18232810]

>>18232804
>You're not, /lit/ is just plebs.
Kek. But I mean in real life, people don’t like it.

[Anonymous No.18232814]

>>18232810
Just brainlets brainleting. They can never bother to read something through so they just dismiss it as a cliche.

[Anonymous No.18232818]

>>18232814
>They can never bother to read something through
I mean that’s me (see: https://boards.4channel.org/lit/thread/18232733#p18232789)) but it’s not very long and I couldn’t put it down, so I don’t get it. But yeah, it’s probably not for the average man.

[Anonymous No.18232828]

>>18232818
It's simple, you have SOUL and can recognise what is like you; while those who dislike Beowulf, no matter how ostensibly educated they be, will never understand the soul of literature.

[Anonymous No.18232833]

>>18232828
Thanks fren.

[Anonymous No.18233055]

>>18232783
I actually really liked Tolkien's translation as well although it's supposed to be less accurate

[Anonymous No.18233058]

>>18232795
>frogs took this from us

[Anonymous No.18233111]

>>18233058
frog bussy

[Anonymous No.18234243]

>>18233055
How is it less accurate?

[Anonymous No.18234267]

>>18232833
The real answer is that you’re two larping faggots alike one another, arbitrarily worshipping old poems like Beowulf just because you like to pretend that liking it somehow means that it is reflected in you, when in reality it is only those with the limpest of wrists who would need to experience power vicariously through a homoerotic fantasy.

[Anonymous No.18234276]

>>18234267
>Beowulf just because you like to pretend that liking it somehow means that it is reflected in you
Pretending? Nah, I genuinely enjoyed it. What’s your problem.

> homoerotic fantasy.

Umm... what???

[Anonymous No.18234284]

>>18232783
I don't know, OP, but as statistically implausable as it is, you are the only person in the whole of history to enjoy beowulf. Why anyone bothered to preserve the text at all until you crowned out of your mother's snooch is a mystery for the ages.

[Anonymous No.18234294]

>>18234284
Kek

[Anonymous No.18234327]

>>18232783
beowulf got so much better for me when i learned about how it's actually a christian poem written by a monk but who is deliberately using a pagan epic to convey the message since he could be confident his audience would know the story already (and accidentally preserved a rare piece of pre-christian anglo-saxon mythology for us moderns)

[Anonymous No.18234361]

>>18232783
Imagine not posting the Tolkien translation

>>18233055
If anyone is going to transmit the symbolism accurately in his translation it is going to be Tolkien

[Anonymous No.18234393]

>>18234327
Before then, what ruined it?

[Anonymous No.18234464]

>>18234393
It was too White for him. It being Christian lets him sigh with relief as ah, whew, he thought he would be a Nazi for enjoying White people culture, but no it's CHRISTIAN so EVERYONE can enjoy it!

He's wrong, by the way. It's a simple fact that it's a pre-Christian poem that was sloppily Christianized as a way of preserving something the Anglo-Saxons really, really, REALLY cared about. An example being the Skald singing Genesis to 5th century Danes. While Denmark was obviously not Christian in the slightest in this time (so there'd be no Skalds and no Peasants listening to anything Christian), Genesis was never a topic of low-class interest in either Denmark or in England. What was, however, were Pagan stories of the early days of the world, which continued to be very popular well into today. You see something similar in Grendel and his mother's entire existence, which makes absolutely no sense in a Christian worldview, because it was only shoddily Christianized (them being part of a race of "Evil Gods" makes perfect sense in the Germanic cosmology).

Even the manuscripts themselves display this aspect of being incredibly important, the Nowell Codex was written by two hands, and the manuscripts were physically hidden in a monastery. Beowulf, and what it means to be a man and a king, were very important to the Anglo-Saxons.

[Anonymous No.18234524]

>>18234464
Alright, what are some good Christian European works? Paradise Lost? The Divine Comedy?

[Anonymous No.18234600]

>>18234361
So is the tolkien version worth reading, I am planning to read beowulf but was thinking of reading the unabridged

[Anonymous No.18234637]

>>18234464
meds

[Anonymous No.18234672]

>>18234600
Yes, as is the Tolkien version of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight

[Anonymous No.18234681]

>>18232783
No, I really like Beowulf. Even if it is like showwrestling written in form of epic poem.

[Anonymous No.18234682]

>>18234600
>unabridged
There’s an abridged version? But it’s only like 150 pages

[Anonymous No.18234691]

>>18234672
That poem is amazing too

>>18234681
Glad to hear it.

> Even if it is like showwrestling written in form of epic poem.

Kek

[Anonymous No.18234694]

>>18234682
I was assuming there is, there's usually an abridged version of anything read in schools and that was one of the novels people in my school read

[Anonymous No.18234701]

>>18234694
I don’t think there is, aside from maybe a comic book (if that counts). But then again, I don’t read abridged books.

[Anonymous No.18234708]

>>18234701
Neither do I

[Anonymous No.18234748]

>>18234708
Good. Abridgement is pointless, have no idea why it’s a thing.

[Anonymous No.18234750]

>>18234284
>crowned out of your mother’s snooch.

Saved

[Anonymous No.18234755]

>>18234748
its for highschoolers who can't appreciate lit yet

[Anonymous No.18234762]

>>18234755
Eh then why even have them read it? Why not save it until later?

[Anonymous No.18234814]

>>18232783
The average person, on /lit/ or not, is a philistine incapable of appreciating anything that does not have the following associated with it:

>capital gain
>sexual gain
>social prestige

Every time you see someone criticize something for being "cliche" you know you are dealing with a philistine. Seeking originality in art is, ironically, the most banal form of art analysis possible, and the least aesthetically sensitive mode of interpretation one can engage art with.

In contrast, someone who can be moved to tears at the sight of the most "cliche" stories when the fullness of their meaning and beauty are brought out through peak craftsmanship and performance is a genuine art lover, because that person knows art's true function, which is not to be original, but instead to communicate and glorify the human condition.

[Anonymous No.18234834]

>>18232783
Did anyone like the book grendel?

[Anonymous No.18234847]

>>18234600
Tolkien version is inaccurate

[Anonymous No.18234871]

>>18234814
>is a philistine incapable of appreciating anything that does not have the following associated with it:
>>capital gain
>>sexual gain
>>social prestige
Is that also why normies tend to believe in situational “ethics”?

[Anonymous No.18234877]

>>18234814
>when the fullness of their meaning and beauty are brought out through peak craftsmanship and performance is a genuine art lover, because that person knows art's true function, which is not to be original, but instead to communicate and glorify the human condition.
Interesting. Would I have to “dissect” literature, like we do in literature classes, in order to really appreciate it?

[Anonymous No.18234924]

>>18234600
According to Tolkien, no. It's based off of Tolkien's theories about the linguistic changes between Old English and Modern English. He's trying to translate meaning. This means a lot of the poetry (in fact essentially all of it) is lost. At the time, Tolkien believed that English had too much French influence for alliteration to have any value in English (a belief he'd later reject). In particular, the kenning "whale-road" (referring to the sea) drove him mad, as it reminded him too much of "a large blubbery cetacean hurtling down the tracks". He realized this project was always just academic fancy and that 99% of the work he was doing was useless, with the 1% more properly being individual papers and theories and theses in and of themselves (see: his stuff about "sigelwara"). It's for that reason that he never published it. His son, after copious editing to make it even readable, is the one who published it.

If you want to read about Bee-Wolf the battle-reaver and his war-brothers oar-running atop the swan-road as crests of sea-spray splash in their faces, of strong men in search of fame ruin, ever-glory, and gold-unending, then just read Heaney. Some fag will get upset about MUH HEANEYWULF, yes, this is true for exactly the same reason that Tolkien is correct, Old English is very different from Modern English so you HAVE to take certain liberties to actually have a poem.

Also, if you're going to pirate it, make sure you get a version that's actually readable. Libgen has a version with 5 lines per page (the spacing is ENORMOUS) so the entire thing is like 2,000 pages long.

[Anonymous No.18234925]

>>18234847
I've seen people claim that he has an excellent understanding of the anglo-saxon mythology though

[Anonymous No.18234947]

>>18234924
>At the time, Tolkien believed that English had too much French influence
It does. English should just be Anglish.

[Anonymous No.18234971]

>>18234947
My brother I am fully of a like mind as you. I too seek to cast out the unwholesome wordstock yolked to our tongues by the liarly Frogs, and to once again make Anglish a soulful well of speech.

But that's something different from what Tolkien was trying to do.

[Anonymous No.18234974]

So what's a good version to get to enjoy the it to the fullest and capture the truest original meaning of the poem?

[Anonymous No.18234998]

>>18234971
Glad to hear that. But I would go further. A fully-inflected English...

>>18234974

Seamus Heaney’s translation

[Anonymous No.18235017]

>>18232783
>me Beowulf
>Beowulf strong
>Denmark king has monster
>Beowulf swim to Denmark
>Much beer for me
>Beowulf SMASH monster
>Many more beer
>Beowulf SMASH monsters mom
>Many much more beer
>Beowulf king now
>Now have own monster, dragon
>Beowulf SMASH dragon
>Beowulf dead
>No more beer
>Everyone sad :(

Literal caveman literature. The only quality any character has is fighting ability. This was written 2000 years after the Illiad and Odyssey, yet feels like a child has just invented writing.

[Anonymous No.18235073]

>>18234464
>It was too White for him.

[Anonymous No.18235075]

>>18235017
>This was written 2000 years after the Illiad and Odyssey, yet feels like a child has just invented writing.
Midwit tier take. Back to plebbit please.

[Anonymous No.18235083]

>>18232783
>Why am I the only one that loves this?
This is news to me, I thought that this was a beloved classic.

[Anonymous No.18235092]

>>18234464
take your meds

[Anonymous No.18235093]

>>18235083
When I ask every other Zoomer I know, they hate it, my mom hates it too.

[Anonymous No.18235103]

>>18235092
This

[Anonymous No.18235367]

>>18235093
You have to ask the ones in AP english

[Anonymous No.18235380]

>>18235367
Kek, I took it and everyone hated it.

[Anonymous No.18235400]

>>18235380
I took it and most thought it was decent. However my class had a lot of nerdy autists who liked Zelda and shit. The girls didn’t really get it. I’m an American and my school was out in the countryside. Maybe you’re a city slicker?

[Anonymous No.18235424]

>>18235400
>Maybe you’re a city slicker?
Try suburbs. But yeah, almost everyone I talk to finds it “boring”.

[Anonymous No.18235444]

>>18232783
yes

[Anonymous No.18235883]

>>18235075
No u. Viking "culture" was dumb and brutish even to the standards of bronze age warrior societies.

[Anonymous No.18235892]

>>18235883
Dumb and brutish may be an oversimplification, although I’m no neopaganfag. But the poetry, the epics are entertaining.

[Anonymous No.18235911]

>>18234464
Who is this Him figure?

[Anonymous No.18235914]

>>18235883
Is Gilgamesh any good? I only know of Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy games.

[Anonymous No.18235993]

>>18235914
Yes, first read 10-20 pages of background info though

[Anonymous No.18236039]

>>18234464
Go burn some priceless manuscripts, Ragnar

[Anonymous No.18236061]

>>18235993
Better than beowulf? Better than the Iliad?

[Anonymous No.18236064]

>>18236039
>Fagnar
Fify

[Anonymous No.18236223]

>>18234877
no

[Anonymous No.18236306]

>>18236061
No, just different. It’s good though.

[Anonymous No.18236314]

>>18232783
Read it in the original. Not even hard.

[Anonymous No.18236328]

>>18236064
*OooooOOOh*
*starts beating drums*
*eats mushrooms*
*turns into mare*

[Anonymous No.18236366]

>>18236328
Beowulf vs grendel was Kino.

[hungryman !!5BI0oSV9uvS No.18236381]

>>18234361
Good to know, I read OP’s version too but have been wanting to read Tolkien’s version for a long time. You’ve pushed me over the edge.

[Anonymous No.18236392]

>>18236366
It was, and I loved reading it even after High School.

[Anonymous No.18236399]

>>18236328
God I wish that were me.

[Anonymous No.18236416]

>>18236399
You want to get fucked by a giant's horse?

[Anonymous No.18237207]

>>18236328
You forgot the cum-drinking

[Anonymous No.18237213]

>>18236223
Good. Is that literary analysis stuff all just bullshit? Not referring to analysis of writing style, word usage, meter, etc.

[Anonymous No.18237279]

>>18237213
not bullshit necessarily, but not necessary in most cases to fully spiritually understand a work of literature. you should have background knowledge of the culture at the time and place of the book, but you shouldn't have to dissect it. it should be natural to connect with a work that makes the human spirit into art. Try to resonate with the ideas and aesthetics of a work

[Anonymous No.18237950]

>>18237279
That’s what I thought. The same probably applies to art too.

[Anonymous No.18238517]

>>18234924
>Bee-Wolf the battle-reaver and his war-brothers oar-running atop the swan-road as crests of sea-spray splash in their faces, of strong men in search of fame ruin, ever-glory, and gold-unending, t
This shit just got me really pumped

[Anonymous No.18238538]

>>18233055
Heaney's translation isn't accurate so much as beautifully rendered. I'd assume Tolkien's is far more accurate.

[Anonymous No.18238585]

>>18235017
>This was written 2000 years after the Illiad and Odyssey
These comes from an oral tradition.

[Anonymous No.18238599]

There's this moment in the poem that always stuck with me (Heaneys translation), I think it's after a king contemplates the death of his son, something like
"everything felt much too large,
the steadings and the fields"
other translations just translated it to something way more simple like, "the room felt large"

[Anonymous No.18238733]

what about sir gawain and the green knight whats a good translation or version for that?

[Anonymous No.18238875]

>>18238733
Tolkien’s.

[Anonymous No.18238896]

>>18234267
>power vicariously through a homoerotic fantasy.
???????????????????

[Anonymous No.18238899]

>>18232783
You read the worst version possible. Read Raffel or Tolkien. Heaney's version is Rupi Kaur tier.

[Anonymous No.18238900]

>>18234600
>So is the tolkien version worth reading
Yes, but it's not the most accurate translation and you should read another one first.

[Anonymous No.18238902]

>>18238733
Burton Raffel.

[Anonymous No.18238922]

>>18238896
That anon was just bullshitting. It’s the classic literary fraud of reading stuff into a text that isn’t there, then pretending “the text can mean whatever I want it to mean”.

[Anonymous No.18238924]

Liuzza > everything else

[Anonymous No.18239001]

>>18238924
liuzza?

[Anonymous No.18239194]

>>18234464
You’re the one who’s full of shit. Beowulf originated as an oral tradition in the 7th century around the time Britain was Christianising so you definitely can’t say it’s a pure pagan work since even orally it had a Christian mix in it.

[Anonymous No.18239215]

>>18239194
He’s a fagan LARPer, no reason will convince him.

[Anonymous No.18239221]

>>18232783
Love the side-by-side format of old and new English they did with this.

[Anonymous No.18239320]

>>18239221
Defintely. Wish I could speak Old English.

[Anonymous No.18239332]

>>18234267
The fuck is this guy talking about?

[Anonymous No.18239342]

>>18234243
I know the famous one is Tolkien abandoning the correct translation of a kenning ‘whale road’ for the ocean because it sounded too much like railroad.
I forget how he translated it but basically he sacrificed accuracy for his own personal autism

[Anonymous No.18239354]

>>18235017
Semitic hands typed this post.

[Anonymous No.18239440]

>>18239342
>he sacrificed accuracy for his own personal autism
Even that was bad autism. That was a major fag move of him.

[Anonymous No.18239480]

>>18239001
Liuzza's version is the most faithful to the original.

[Anonymous No.18239500]

god damn the movie was kino

[Anonymous No.18239559]

>>18239500
Shame it has next to nothing to do with the original

[Anonymous No.18240063]

>>18239194
The pagan comes through more than the Christian. Beowulf fights chthonic monsters on his own, rather than demons as a surrogate for God's will.

[Anonymous No.18240410]

>>18239354
>Illiad is semitic
Anon... just accept that Nordic hero epics do not hold up to work from comparable cultures

[Anonymous No.18240452]

>>18240063
The very idea of Kingship displayed in Beowulf is inherently Pagan, as is the entire cosmology that the work takes place in. All of the LARPers getting butthurt at anon telling them the truth are just demonstrating anon's point. But then, they're LARPers, so we can't expect them to actually read anything.

[Anonymous No.18240462]

>>18240410
Yes, there are many Christfags who posit this. It was a common argument among Early Christians that the Iliad and the Odyssey were just ripoffs of the Torah. It's still pretty commonly argued among the edgy tradlarpers on here.

[Anonymous No.18240505]

>>18232783
Kennings ought to be used more regularly rather than seen as a quirk of Norse poetry. Beowulf is worth it for its use of kennings alone.

Here are a few metal kennings

Killing foes - Feed the eagle
Battlefield - corpse-bramble
raven - swan of blood
sword - icicle of blood
war - weather of weapons
blood - battle-sweat
death - sleep of the sword

[Anonymous No.18240527]

>>18239559
It follows the same very basic schema. Kills Grendel for foreign kingdom, takes care of Grendel's mother also, years later rules his own kingdom and dies killing a dragon.

[Anonymous No.18240534]

>>18240505
Based kennings-enjoyer.

[Anonymous No.18240768]

>>18240505
>>18240534
one of my favourite derogatory ones is man - silver-spreader

[Anonymous No.18240986]

>>18240452
>>18240063
Demonstrate how anything within Beowulf is inherently pagan, and with quotes.

[Anonymous No.18241044]

>>18240986
Already did.

[Anonymous No.18241069]

>>18234834
My local library was giving it away for free, I picked it up a year ago but have yet to read it

[Anonymous No.18241070]

>>18240462
>It was a common argument among Early Christians that the Iliad and the Odyssey were just ripoffs of the Torah.

Who came to that conclusion? I've read all three and I don't see it, and I'm what you call a "Christfag"

[Anonymous No.18241522]

>>18241070
That anon came up with it, this was never a belief.

[Anonymous No.18241528]

>>18240505
Metal kennings as in heavy metal?

[Anonymous No.18242405]

Bump

[Anonymous No.18242434]

>>18232783
I didn’t like it. Was I filtered anon? Anyone else feel this way?

[Anonymous No.18242456]

>>18242434
>Was I filtered anon?
What does this mean?

[Anonymous No.18242543]

>>18241070
What do you mean? If you believe, as Early Christians did, that all cultures come from the Jews, and that the Jews invented writing, and that history is fundamentally a Jewish project as only Jews are capable of accurately relaying history, then it's just self evident. If you want an example of an individual that believed this, then just look into Aristobulus. Philo of Alexandria also believed this. It's also a view independently found in various Protestant traditions, such as those drawing from the works of Dutch Quaker Gerard Croese. It's also a position Tertullian, begrudgingly, took up on occasion. It's been awhile since I read him, but I'm pretty sure Augustine rebukes (unnamed) Christians for doing this, saying that there's no need to because Homer sucks as he is a gentile anyways so just say the Torah is better.

This is to say nothing of the long tradition of Hellenistic Jewish apocalypticism, of which Revelation is part of, which was done in Greek and as such used Homeric poetic form out of necessity, and which contained many authors who (also out of necessity) argued that Homer was just ripping off the Torah therefore it's okay to talk about Rosy Fingered Dawn when kvetching about the evil anti-semitic Ptolemies and how any day now they'll all be heaped up as a sacrifice to Yahweh and burnt alive.

[Anonymous No.18242650]

>>18242543
>If you believe, as Early Christians did, that all cultures come from the Jews, and that the Jews invented writing, and that history is fundamentally a Jewish project as only Jews are capable of accurately relaying history
Source? Or is it just coming out of your ass?

[Anonymous No.18242709]

Bump

[Anonymous No.18242789]

>>18242650
Augustine. Also, and this adds another name to my previous post as he also does what was mentioned there: Cyril of Alexandria. You're not going to read a word of either of them, of course.

[Anonymous No.18242965]

>>18240505
Filtered - book bashed head.

[Anonymous No.18243187]

>>18242789
The early church fathers repeatedly bashed the Jews for betraying the God that had made a covenant with them. In fact the Nt says this: Romans 11:11, KJV: "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

Basically, until they repent, burn their Talmuds and admit Jesus is the everlasting God-Messiah, they are in rebellion against God. And because of their sin of rejecting Christ as a nation, and persecuting the few who didn’t reject Him, God said “alright, I’m gonna cuck you and help the Goyim that you hate so damn much.”

[Anonymous No.18243397]

>>18243187
>The early church fathers repeatedly bashed the Jews for betraying the God that had made a covenant with them
How would you know if you haven't read any of their works?

[Anonymous No.18243433]

>>18243397
I’m tryna find a quote but unfortunately all of the search engines screen it out. Also... how tf do I know you read them?

[Anonymous No.18243451]

>>18243433
I'm well aware that they don't like Jews that didn't convert, anon. Everyone has seen the image macros of BASED St. Pederasticus saying that the Jews are a nest of vipers in a latrine and blah blah blah. It's not new, I've been seeing these infographics for over a decade on here.

That doesn't change the fact that they still viewed that nest of vipers in a latrine as infinitely preferable to Paganism, or that they believed that all cultures come from the Jews, and that the Jews invented writing, and that history is fundamentally a Jewish project as only Jews are capable of accurately relaying history, then it's just self evident. It also doesn't change the fact that they believed that Homer was just a ripoff of the Torah.

[Anonymous No.18243474]

>>18243451
Thing is that neopagans tend to reject rationality itself, and intermix their irrationalism with nonsensical notions that “time is nonlinear”, and poorly interpreted physics. So paganism decidedly tells us less about reality than any ancient Israelite religion ever did. Also... Talmudism is very distinct from that religion, the Talmud is a (possibly deliberate) misinterpretation of the Torah, based upon a fake legend about an “Oral Torah”. To conflate Talmudism with the old religion of priests, etc. is erroneous. Also... I’m not aware of them saying “Homer is a ripoff of the Torah”.

[Anonymous No.18243483]

>>18243474
Not to mention the fact that they were heavily influenced by the nominally pagan Aristotle and Plato.

[Anonymous No.18243761]

>>18242543
I don’t know about Homer and Greeks copying from the Jews (highly unlikely and laughable), but they certainly copied from middle eastern epic poems like the epic of Gilgamesh. As for writing, the alphabet does come from Semitic people so technically Jews can be credited for writing if you think all Semitic people are the same that is. You obviously think Greeks and Nordic are the same so why shouldn’t Jews and phoenicians be considered the same?

[Anonymous No.18243786]

>>18232810
97.9% of people in the modern era are mentally retarded, there's no surprise there.

[Anonymous No.18243795]

>>18234267
How come jews can literally only project?

[Anonymous No.18243811]

>>18243786
>97.9%
Very odd number, kek

[Anonymous No.18243818]

>>18236061
Best book ever.

[Anonymous No.18243840]

>>18243474
You're constructing phantoms to argue against at this point, anon.

[Anonymous No.18243919]

>>18243840
nope.

[Anonymous No.18244122]

>>18234361
Tolkein hated his own translation. It should not been published

[Anonymous No.18244412]

>>18244122
Why’d he hate it?

[Anonymous No.18244421]

>>18232783
Beowolf is underrated.

[Anonymous No.18244441]

>>18241528
Yeah

[Anonymous No.18244452]

>>18244441
Niiiiice

[Anonymous No.18244453]

>>18244421
This

[Anonymous No.18245956]

>>18244412
He did it when he was relatively young and inserted too much of himself into the text.