The Decline of the West

[Anonymous No.18160401]

How are we not supposed to resent being born at the ass end of our civilization, completely cut off from either taking part in it or steering it to a better fate? Is this what fate had in store for us, to cruelly force us to watch it crumble and not be able to do anything about it? It's all so depressing to think about.

[Anonymous No.18160417]

>>18160401
Retard

[Anonymous No.18160534]

>>18160401
Retard

[Anonymous No.18160544]

>>18160401
You can do something. Create something, write a book, take action.

[Anonymous No.18160563]

>>18160401
>born at the ass end of our civilization
No we aren't. Spengler tells you exactly what to do: take up Technics. Elon Musk is doing this as we speak.

[Anonymous No.18160574]

>>18160401
>tfw just grilling and reading poetry at the end of history

[Anonymous No.18160605]

>>18160401
Yeah, I'm fucking resentful too. But it gets tiring and I just dont care anymore. Enjoy the show, its all we can do now.

[Anonymous No.18160606]

>>18160574
Logo kojeve pilled you too?

[Anonymous No.18160617]

>>18160606
yes, among other things

[Anonymous No.18160667]

>>18160617
He’s got the best recs

[Anonymous No.18160679]

You will own nothing and be happy.
You will live in perpetual debt, personal or communal.
You will never have a wife and a family.
You will never eat meat again.
You will eat the bugs.
You will wear the mask.
You will take experimental vaccines.
And you see white people go extinct.
And you will like it.

[Anonymous No.18160711]

>>18160401
It's good that it's ending. Everything after the greeks was a disgrace.

[Anonymous No.18160719]

>>18160401
being resentful is for faggots, literally the opposite of what spengler advises

>>18160606
>>18160617
>>18160667
no one's gonna buy your shitty book cairey

[Anonymous No.18160732]

>>18160679
You forgot the most important one
>You will live in ze podz

[Anonymous No.18160743]

What comes next though?

[Anonymous No.18160769]

>>18160743
The rise of Eurasia

[Anonymous No.18160781]

>>18160769
>Eurasia

This isn't /x/ or /pol/. Give me some specific predictions.

[Anonymous No.18160856]

>>18160743
Rise of the bugmen Chinese, or if we're lucky America enters the Imperium.

[Anonymous No.18160899]

just enjoy what's left

[Anonymous No.18160933]

>>18160856
>America
>Imperium

America's age of empire was the 20th century. Right now, all of its social and cultural capital has been expended.

The game is over, lad.

[Anonymous No.18160940]

>>18160743
Neochina arrives from the future and btfos bald pessimist man and his cycles.

[Anonymous No.18161267]

>>18160933
Maybe Yockey is right and we can artificially preserve the west through Imperium.

[Anonymous No.18161286]

>>18161267
Like pickling a dead fetus?

[Anonymous No.18161409]

>>18160401
China has become your civilization. The China of today isn't some weird new entity taking over the western culture. It has incorporated the western culture of science and economics. It's unironically less alien than your own civilization would be to you if you go back 60 years.

[Anonymous No.18161430]

>>18160401
The West had its time. It was good. It was politically successful. But it is over.

[Anonymous No.18161443]

>>18161286
Lol kinda more like keeping it frozen in place for as long as possible by using government force.

[Anonymous No.18161456]

>>18161409
New Faustian Technic China just dropped

[Anonymous No.18161473]

>>18160933
Not really, according to Spengler the US has a few more centuries.

>>18161430
Spengler's "World Spirits" don't end, ever.

[Anonymous No.18161492]

>>18161473
Okay. But according to me, it's over.

[Anonymous No.18161493]

>>18161473
>Spengler's "World Spirits" don't end, ever.
Do they never end in the sense that they become a constituting element of later world spirits (effectively going through a complete metamorphosis) or does he genuinely believe that the world-spirit of european antiquity is still alive in our day and age?

[Anonymous No.18161505]

Western civilization isn't ending, according the Spengler. A civilization in its winter phase can last literally forever, or at least thousands of years, just like China and India have. What he said has ended was the "growth and development" phase. Now is the time for stasis and petrification. Western civilization might last for many thousands of more years. And what's more, Russia is just entering its spring phase. So there are now five living civilizations according to his (flawed) view, four relics and one just beginning life.

[Anonymous No.18161516]

>>18160933
I'm sure it looked like the end for Rome before Ceasar and Augustus came along.

[Anonymous No.18161527]

>>18161505
How is Russia just entering Spring. Russia isn't based lad, its slightly behind the curve of cultural marxism and is completely controlled by jews. Putin, like all world leaders, is a puppet

[Anonymous No.18161528]

>>18161493
>>18161493
Spengler viewed Classical Greco-Roman civilization and Faustian Western civilization as being entirely distinct. Products of dead civilizations can continue on in future civilizations but they're dead. The metaphor he used was fossils.

[Anonymous No.18161531]

>>18161505
>A civilization in its winter phase can last literally forever, or at least thousands of years, just like China and India have.

But it's obvious that Europe's winter is fundamentally different than that of China's or India's. Europe is literally imploding upon itself.

[Anonymous No.18161538]

Friendly reminder that the rise of China BTFOs Špengler, and that's a good thing

[Anonymous No.18161548]

>>18161493
A "World-Spirit" (Spengler doesn't use this term, this is something later English thinkers use to refer to something he comes up with but does not name) is a conceptualization of space-time. For reasons that aren't important, these sometimes are created. They have an initial period of vitality ("Kultur") and a period of ossification ("Zivilisation"). Spengler is commonly cited as a theoretician of cyclical history, but this is not the case. A World-Spirit never dies of old age. Eventually, it ossifies to the point where it can only ever interpret new ideas through existing lenses, but it will only ever die if another World-Spirit kills it.

The World-Spirits are:
Russian
Faustian (600sAD and on West)
Magian (the Semitic world, all but dead at Faustian Man's hands)
Apollonian (pre-Christian Greece and Rome; killed by Magian man)
Sumerian (killed by Magian Man)
Mesoamerican (killed by Faustian Man)
Indian
Chinese

So, no, Apollonian Man is dead. Whether an individual can resurrect it or not in themselves is beyond what Spengler cares about.

>>18161527
Russia underwent Pseudomorphosis via Petrinism; essentially the Russian elite wanted to LARP as Frenchmen, thereby stunting the growth of Russia. This just slows down WHEN it grows up, it doesn't actually stop it.

>>18161531
Europe is merely undergoing the natural end result of Faustian Man. You can't have a worldview about charting all of reality and not end up with Niggers in your capital cities. To put it a bit more bluntly, when the Early Church said they wanted to unify all mankind as one race speaking one language so that they could practice one religion and one culture, they actually meant "all mankind". That doesn't mean that heckin' BASED crusaders go around COLONIZING or whatever, it means every nook and cranny gets explored and brought into the fold and made fit for the ideas and aims of Faustian Man.

[Anonymous No.18161555]

>>18160574
If you do believe Spangler I correct in his judgments it would be quite comfy to know that you have all the fruit of western culture available to you. From our promontory the whole range of literature, music, and art is in clear view.

[Anonymous No.18161556]

>>18161527
Spengler saw Russia as a new Civilization that was being confined by imitating Western Civilization. The spring phase of civilization isn't defined by being "based" but rather by working out the Civilization's ur symbol in different areas of life such as mathematics and music.

[Anonymous No.18161561]

>>18161538
That pic is wrong. The sheep need to be herded. Look at them now, fucking degenerates deserve a rope. We need 1984, just a based version instead of the globohomo one

[Anonymous No.18161571]

>>18161561
I agree. Tradition, reaction, king, castes and honor.

[Anonymous No.18161584]

>>18161548
>You can't have a worldview about charting all of reality and not end up with Niggers in your capital cities.
I fucking hate the West and Christianity for this. Fucking nigger lovers have been steering the ship since the beginning. Wish I wasnt born into the gay losing team. I am resentful, and that is justified as hell. I didnt ask for this. Wish I was Chinese or Russian
>>18161556
I can see that but they still imitate the west with gay shit. Also this doesn't account for the jews, we all know what good they bring to a society.

[Anonymous No.18161591]

>>18161548
Thank you for your detailed reply.

>You can't have a worldview about charting all of reality

Please tell me if this is a silly question, but does Spengler ever talk about the possible connection between the Indian (all-encompassing "Brahman") and Antique/Faustian "all-charting" world-spirit through its shared indo-european roots?

[Anonymous No.18161599]

>>18161556
Splengler believed in ethnomathematics lol. Probably would of called ebonics beautiful poetry

[Anonymous No.18161616]

>>18161599
>ethnomathematics
That term makes it sound weirder than it truly is. Few would deny that the world-view of cultures influences the course of their inquiry of the unknown and unexplored.

[Anonymous No.18161618]

>>18160781
duginism

[Anonymous No.18161647]

>>18161616
Ethnomathematics is an excuse people made up for black people failing math class. If Spengler believed in crap like that he's retarded. Math is math

[Anonymous No.18161659]

>>18161647
That's as charitable a view as saying ethics is about not being mean to brown people.

[Anonymous No.18161667]

>>18160563
>No we aren't. Spengler tells you exactly what to do: take up Technics.
Can you elaborate? How exactly can one use Technics for good?
I ask this as someone who has contributed to a federated FOSS project and taken an interest in decentralised protocols. It always feels like a losing battle, but if any good can be achieved by it then it would make the whole experience worthwhile. Also I have dozens of books to get through already, but if pic related has broad civilizational implications then I will happily add it to the list.
>Elon Musk is doing this as we speak.
Just him or any other big tech investors? What do you think about Thiel Capital?

[Anonymous No.18161672]

>>18161591
It's not a silly question at all. Anyways, not to my knowledge. Remember, World-Spirits aren't related to each other. Faustian Man isn't "descended" from Apollonian Man. The people in whose minds World-Spirits "live" are obviously related, but the actual World-Spirits aren't. But then, there's no actual borders around who can "partake" in a World-Spirit. A coal black Bantu in the congo can be Faustian, as can a banana-yellow Chink, or a ghostly white Scandi. A White man can partake in Chinese Man just fine.

Secondly, in Spengler, India is focused on the illusory nature of difference and disparity in favor of a universal One-ness. Faustian Man doesn't think everything is One, he thinks that the universe is a big 3D grid in which things take place and move around, and that God has a pocketwatch going in the background. The "all-charting" is about the fact that because everything exists in a grid that exists independent of the things in it everything has four values (X, Y, Z, and t) at minimum. This also means that you can have other values (something's heat, it's color, etc). So, Faustian Man isn't realizing some universal Oneness between the Frenchman and the Somali, but is instead moving the Somali into the same "bucket" as the Frenchmen. The obvious problems that result from this abound, and many of these are genuine problems (Somalis aren't wrong for realizing their lives suck when they're shipped into France), and Spengler foresaw that this sort of thing (the moving of the Coloreds into Europe, or rather the expansion of Europe to swallow the world).

>>18161599
No, there's just one mathematics. Rather, different World-Spirits care about different aspects of mathematics. You could teach an Ancient Greek calculus, he'd get it just fine, he'd just think it boring compared to the beauty of geometry.

[Anonymous No.18161684]

>>18161561
>>18161571
anglos be like

[Anonymous No.18161698]

>>18161538
Spengler's understanding of China was his weakest faculty, but his coverage of the West is excellent and correct.

[Anonymous No.18161710]

>>18161667
Make the biggest rocket. The biggest gun. The longest road. The fastest car. It's all about the numbers. When Rome was where we are (heading), they were making the Colosseum, Hadrian's Wall, the Roman Roads, the Aqueducts. It's the age of making big vast projects that show off what your World-Spirits values are. The Internet is actually one of these.

People make fun of Musk for his Mars shit. "You'll never colonize Mars, the radiation", "where will you get food", "what about the return trip?". It's not about that. It's about the fact that in five thousand years people will know him as "the man who put the first human foot on Mars". That's all that matters. He doesn't have to fill that space, he just has to chart it.

[Anonymous No.18161735]

>>18161672
Thank you again. I knew that "world-spirits" were not blood-bound races or anything, I didn't mean to make it sound like aryan mysticism lol.

Does he ever say something about Iran? It's at the crossroads of many cultures, I can't think of any other culture that is connected to as many differing cultures (Magian, Faustian, Indian, Chinese) as it is.

Another question. This might be just my idiosyncratic reading, but it seems to me that the awareness of the ephemerality of things, of the passing of time more often than not occurs at the end of the proactive, culture-creating phase of a civilization. Think of Mann's Magic Mountain, Buzatti's The Tartar Steppe, or Proust's ISoLT : reflecting on the past, becoming aware of their own ephemerality, and having an uneasy relationship with the future features in all of them. Saint Augustine's meditation on the nature of time in his Confessions could also be said to be the Apollonian equivalent of this phenomenon. Does Spengler ever talk about this, how civilizations don't tend to concern themselves much with their embeddedness in cycles and processes until they start to feel its effects?

[Anonymous No.18161773]

>>18161698
There was a dramatically lower amount of professional literature available about China at the time, so at least he has an excuse.

[Anonymous No.18161811]

>>18161684
I'm Italian and Polish.

[Anonymous No.18161875]

>>18161811
the catholics got you then. or probably, more specifcally, the "tradcaths." aka british conservatism that is pro global empire but with a "based" catholic aesthetic.

[Anonymous No.18161996]

>>18161875
Nope. Not a catholic. Not even a christcuck

[Anonymous No.18162045]

>>18161538
I hate tradfags so much

[Anonymous No.18162084]

>spengler predicts that western civilization will fall by ~2200
>tfw we have another 179 years of tranny SJW BLM warfare

[Anonymous No.18162104]

>>18161996
do you like nietzsche?

[Anonymous No.18162105]

>>18161710
>Make the biggest rocket. The biggest gun. The longest road. The fastest car. It's all about the numbers.
Interesting that you put it this way. I've been thinking a lot about tech obsolescence recently. Every technology gets perfected just as or even after it is replaced. The curta came a few decades before the electric calculator. The best crossbows were built when firearms already existed. The minidic arrived around the same time as flash drives.
Most modern people don't like the idea of scientific progress stopping, but I was thinking maybe it will be a good thing. When you're on the cutting edge you have to improvise a lot and end up creating something buggy and flawed. When you work with retro technology, however, you can actually create a grand design from the ground up. You take something you already know will work and increase the scale and precision until it is the best it can be.
Is this the kind of thing that we can expect? Bigger and better versions of what we already have?

[Anonymous No.18162294]

>>18162104
Havent read much of him. Philosophy is mostly fake and gay. Exceptions exist that capture my interest

[Anonymous No.18162406]

>>18162084
I really fucking hope he's wrong. Unless this means there will be a century or two of pushback before the fall

[Anonymous No.18162435]

>>18162406
he has been wrong very few times but he predicted that by the year 2000 an age of caesarism would finally be upon us, yet 21 years have passed and I don't see anybody that fits that description
maybe trump was the closest thing so far? Berlusconi?

I have no idea

[Anonymous No.18162452]

>>18162084
I think that shit will end with the decline of the American empire, which will happen at some point this century. After that it will be a peaceful, mostly uneventful senescence where the West is intact and its insane liberal ideology finally humbled but fossilized and not accomplishing anything.

[Anonymous No.18162453]

>>18162435
Well we can hope. Trump honestly could have been a Caesar of he didnt pussy up on the 6th. that shit got heated. However, he's a puppet to jews and a weak boomer bitch so not him. I'd give it another decade and a half before giving up on a Caesar appearing.

[Anonymous No.18162535]

>>18162084
>tfw we have another 179 years of tranny SJW BLM warfare
>>18162406
>I really fucking hope he's wrong. Unless this means there will be a century or two of pushback before the fall
Decline of civilization doesn't necessarily mean the worst of that civilization persisting right to the end. Dying empires can have a period of consolidation where they shed their worst excesses. Look into the Julian Reforms if you want to see what I mean.
>>18162452
This. The rest of the world is driven insane by either imitating or resisiting American norms. As the US turns inward her allies will no longer have to participate in clownworld and her enemies won't have a "Great Satan" to define themselves in opposition to.

[Anonymous No.18162562]

>>18162294
does it suck having no way to actualize your fantasies of honor and monarchy?

[Anonymous No.18162608]

>>18162452
The American empire will have to decline. Its reach will shrivel, eventually, but it won't be due to external forces, i.e. internal issues will cause its demise.

Funnily, mere suggestion of the US shrinking its powers and becoming, perhaps, isolationist is met with cries of nationalism and Nazism, the latter being hilarious; but this clearly signals the overarching system of Americanization is far from accepting its end. This is also signaled by how much push there still is for immigration into the system -- of course, that's also consumerist in nature.

If the US caged itself, it would be better off.

[Anonymous No.18162653]

>>18162562
What do you mean?

[Anonymous No.18162665]

>>18162608
>Funnily, mere suggestion of the US shrinking its powers and becoming, perhaps, isolationist is met with cries of nationalism and Nazism, the latter being hilarious
This is always amusing to watch. Regardless of what you thought of Trump, the total meltdown over him being a fascist for supposedly wanting to reign in the empire (which didn't even happen) was absolutely surreal. The last four years were like a fever dream and it's definitely going to continue. The senile old Uncle Sam has plenty of insane outbursts left in him.

[Anonymous No.18162724]

>People itt think the United States is a part of Western Civilization
???
Like Russia, we are our own thing, thank you very much. The chaos you see in American politics today is us shedding the fetters of Western civilization and embracing our otherness at last.

[Anonymous No.18162752]

>>18162724
>embracing our otherness at last.
You mean niggers? Are niggers our otherness? I'd be fine having an otherness, but why does it have to be niggers?

[Anonymous No.18162798]

>>18162724
>is us shedding the fetters of Western civilization and embracing our otherness at
aka muttification

[Anonymous No.18162907]

When the fuck will arktos publish it

[Anonymous No.18163011]

>>18162907
I don't think its coming, /lit/bro

[Anonymous No.18163110]

>>18160781
America holds itself together through "public relations". Public relations came to be roughly during the war years as a result of the decaying of democracy. The "idea" of america was that by fleeing the continent and leaving behind old religious and national dogmatisms a new society of enlightened people in the pursuit of truth could uphold the historically troublesome system called democracy. But suffrage grew, the civil war occurred (with the british backing the south), the US grew wealthier, etc., leading to a decline in the intellectual quality of the voting populace.

This lead to a collapse of faith in democracy amongst the elite. There had already been much corruption so a new ideology was formulated popularly known as "neoliberalism." The basic idea is that there is too much information floating around for citizens with limited time to come to a sane conclusion and then vote about. Therefore, experts must collate and construct this information in a way people can quickly understand.

The result of this is a supposedly apolitical group of people creating the policy and then a "show" played for the proles for the purpose of "manufacturing consent." The show isn't limited to stuff like John Oliver, it's the whole electoral process, the presidency is largely a public relations position, if an outsider miraculously attains it he will find he possesses little power to affect the country at large. This is because the power is very dispersed, and in turn difficult to locate and control.

This is all basic stuff, but what is America's future? I think it's reasonable to expect more of the same but gradually shittier. Spengler's model is correct but his timing is off. We had our caesars with Lincoln and FDR. Now we're transitioning into a sort of neofeudalism as many have already pointed out. It's an attempt at doubling down on neoliberalism. Neoliberalism has spawned problems, but our elite's imagination is depleted, so as a response they're pushing the existing system further rather than making a fundamental change. This will suck.

Displacing America is the modern chinese system. America is reactionary compared to China. Why? Because in America you have the *specter* of freedom. Through public relations, we are convinced of The American Dream, democracy, a "free market." But our material ability to actualize these things is limited. The next step of this is something like Schwab's "stakeholder capitalism." While it sounds communistic it will more likely be an extension of the current order. Oprah will go to davos to represent "black voices." Greta Thurnberg will go to represent "environmentalism." These media figures will go to represent all the different identity groups (those identity groups cultivated and organized by media "experts") and that representation will make things fair, at least if you take the public relations propaganda to be reality.

[Anonymous No.18163119]

>>18163110
The chinese meanwhile, are actualizing stakeholder capitalism in that communistic sense. The ccp will explicitly invest in your business if they measure their doing so to be beneficial to the country. The better the company is, the more support it has from the government, workers are able to benefit in a meritocratic proportion to their labor. Workers have a greater stake in their labor, they have greater rights. It is for this reason China is more progressive, because the hierarchy of class is less existent than in the US. The US feigns separation of industry and state. It hides it's investment in industry in an occulted network of elites who claim class doesn't exist in America. Public disapproval of this is ameliorated through media.

Also consider the social credit system. Yes it uses surveillance technology to monitor people's actions but you are also able to improve that score. The US too has surveillance technology and people get burned because of it. Yet the government acts like the internet is free. It's another example of freedom as defined via public relations. The reality is this technology is now widespread and I think it is wise for the chinese to institute it fairly before it gets into the hands of people who will use it dishonestly and more perniciously (which I think will increasingly happen in the West.)

You may have noticed in history reactionary states are superseded by progressive ones. The NRXism "cthulhu swims left" gets at this but has some false connotations. This is one thing spengler doesn't mention when talking about civilizational rise and fall. Some things carry over. Like rights. When slaves are freed they are humanized. Attempts to dehumanize them don't last long (see the holocaust.)

I do not claim china to be the perfect state. It too will eventually decay and fall. But politics is about best maximizing what you can with the materials you have. To think otherwise is an ideological pitfall.

[Anonymous No.18163132]

>>18162724
Nah we're not our own thing yet, we'll die with the West, but we can create a more unique identity via the dreamlike sleep we'll pass through in death.

[Anonymous No.18163139]

>>18160401
more like the rickroll of the west

[Anonymous No.18163141]

>>18163119
forgot my image for modern china

[Anonymous No.18163147]

>>18161548
Central Asia (Khorasan) and Eranshahr/Persia were not culturally a part of Semitic world. Calling the Semitic world "Magian" is insulting and historically illiterate.

[Anonymous No.18163190]

>>18162653
Reaction, kings, and soldierly honor is gone. It remains only in the minds of certain “right wingers” as a larp.

[Anonymous No.18163215]

>>18163190
I agree. The only way that could be brought back is the enslavement of mankind by people who believe in it.

[Anonymous No.18163224]

>>18163110
>>18163119
So what you're saying is that I should impregnate a nice Chinese girl?

[Anonymous No.18163238]

>>18163215
That won’t happen

[Anonymous No.18163243]

>>18163224
sure

[Anonymous No.18163248]

women are supposed to be sexed in the rear, it's the antinatalist way

[Anonymous No.18163273]

>>18163248
Only uglies, sluts and feminists. If you have a good wife, keep her pregnant at all times.
This is the only way to actually make eugenics work btw. As soon as the state gets involved it goes to shit.

[Anonymous No.18163557]

>>18163110
>Oprah will go to davos to represent "black voices." Greta Thurnberg will go to represent "environmentalism." These media figures will go to represent all the different identity groups (those identity groups cultivated and organized by media "experts") and that representation will make things fair, at least if you take the public relations propaganda to be reality.

you have described fascism. Corporatism.

[Anonymous No.18163564]

>>18160401
>>18162084
>Why did I have to be born at the end of Rome!
>Born around the same time as Julius Ceasar.
Perhaps things are not as you think they are.

[Anonymous No.18163589]

>>18163564
Fingers crossed

[Anonymous No.18163634]

>>18163589
Yes, you're likely to live through the greatest events in history, but most people will sleepwalk through them.

[Anonymous No.18163684]

>>18163634
Lets hope. This century (and lifetime) will either be based as fuck or gay as fuck. One or the other, no middle ground.

[Anonymous No.18163695]

>>18163684
Nothing could be gayer the the 20th century... right?

[Anonymous No.18163705]

>>18163695
Well it started off alright but yes, it was the worst century by far. That said at least it had some based figures (like Uncle A). The 21st century will have to start bad and become good or stay bad. It might surpass the 20th if nothing changes for the better

[Anonymous No.18163717]

>>18163695
Look up the Julian reforms, then think about why someone would feel the need to enact them.
>Hint: Rome got giga-gay before regaining her sanity.

[Anonymous No.18163793]

>>18161527
Spengler talks about "Russia" but he really means Eurasia, this sort of cultural milieu spanning from the Danube to the Amur. According to Spengler this Russia's Spring is essentially delayed by LARPing as the West, which they've been doing since Peter the Great.
Ironically, the Great Break probably began with the Russian Revolution. Marxism might be a strongly Faustian ideology, but it's failure elsewhere left Russia alone and isolated in the world, what was meant to make Russia the center of internationalism instead "inoculated" it with a deep hatred and mistrust of the West.
Even then, Russia essentially has to mimic the West in order to survive and compete (again, this started with Peter so it's not new behavior, and China is now doing this too), the way the Germans developed their societies to deal with Rome. As the West's power and influence recedes then Russia will come into its own and their "real" Springtime can start (which is also what happened with Rome and the Germans).
Spengler says of Russia that Tolstoy is its past and Dostoevsky is its future.

[Anonymous No.18163823]

desu spengler sounds like he was making shit up as he went along

[Anonymous No.18163864]

>>18163557
Are you saying China is corporatist? If so, yes, corporatism is based

[Anonymous No.18163889]

>>18163864
Corporatism only makes sense if you have a fairly static economy with little to no innovation. Could work as a winter retirement plan, but trying to implement it early is probably not the wisest idea.

[Anonymous No.18163896]

>>18161505
>Russia is just entering its spring phase
So what you're saying is that if I want to write great literature I need to write it in Russian

[Anonymous No.18163904]

>>18161538
>rise of China
Spengler's discussion of China is weak, but he never said a civilisation couldn't be powerful.
Rome was far beyond its cultural peak but it was still a superpower until like the 5th century and experienced a massive military (but not cultural) resurgence as Early Byzantium.
Heraclius kicking Persia to the kerb and Justinian smashing the Germans didn't suddenly mean the Apollonian culture wasn't dead.
>>18163864
>>18163889
Yeah, corporatism is essentially asset management, it's hard to innovate in such a system.

[Anonymous No.18163920]

>>18163896
You're not acculturated. Your kids might, though.

[Anonymous No.18163941]

>>18163889
>>18163904
Sure, corporatism isn’t perfect, and it’s not like the Chinese are corporatists although they are similar sometimes

[Anonymous No.18164445]

>>18163557
>>18163889
Sounds more like technocracy. Fascist Corporatism is about solving conflict between employer and employee
Figures like Oprah and Thunberg are mouthpieces that the masses must put all their trust in on behalf of the technocratic elite

[Anonymous No.18164676]

>>18164445
What do you mean by “technocracy?” Every government nowadays must be able to wield technology effectively or else it’ll be displaced by a more technologically capable regime.

[Anonymous No.18164695]

>>18164676
Technocracy has nothing to do with technology, it means the government is ran by scientists and engineers and shit (depending on their responsibilities).
So China might put a mechanical engineer in charge of a car factory, etc.

[Anonymous No.18164714]

>>18163110
>>18163119
I've taken to reading the CPC's theoretical journal (run through Google Translate) and it's pretty interesting. Happy 100th.

https://youtu.be/l3T1q-W_2nM

[Anonymous No.18164763]

I laugh a lot when I look at you thinking that the western Golden age was eternally like this.
It wasn't. And it's an outlier. Things are not declining. Things are returning to NORMAL.

[Anonymous No.18164844]

>>18161684
While I, the other poster, am a Croat with some Hungarian admixture. I am also pr*testant.

[Anonymous No.18164889]

>>18164763
This is the most reatarded graph I've ever seen. None of those countries existed 1000 years ago, let alone 2000 years ago

[Anonymous No.18164898]

>>18164763
>>18164889
Also:
>USA
>Bigger GDP than UK and Germany combined in 1900
>Japan
>Bigger GDP than Spain in the 1600s
Who the fuck made this graph

[Anonymous No.18164899]

>>18160563
Elon Musk is a bored billionaore with a severe midlife crisis going on. Regardless the man is nothing more but a snake oilsalesman if you've kept track on him

[Anonymous No.18164903]

>>18164898
>>18164889
The graph is correct and you're just seething because you think you're some kind of master race. But you're not

[Anonymous No.18164929]

>>18164903
Imagine projecting this hard because someone criticized the shitty graph you downloaded from visualcapitalist.com

[Anonymous No.18164932]

That chart is using GDP per capita. I don't know if that chart is totally accurate, seems hard to measure when going back centuries, but the U.S. was a massive economic powerhouse at the turn of the 20th century and the U.S. apparently became the biggest in the world via PPP by the 1890s. This started translating into other areas.

[Anonymous No.18164943]

China is not the future, China took a few decades to get to where the west needed hundreds of years to get, they already have a demographic problem they've destroyed themselves with only one generation of western style of life. Maybe they can rectify but I doubt it

The next civilization to dominate will be Israel, and it will be the last before Jesus returns

[Anonymous No.18164963]

>>18164929
The west is declining because it has to return to the mean. The west isn't supposed to be most of the world's economy and culture. Simple for anyone who knows history. All estimates of trade from the past point to that the west was never more than one third. The Era of Colonialism is a severe outlier which will taken care off like when we take care of outliers with replicates in pca research.

[Anonymous No.18164964]

>>18164695
Ok you’re right that is the correct definition of technocracy. This isn’t the ccp though, they’re interested in the art of statecraft, not rule by cybernetic loops (aka the western way.)
>>18164714
>I've taken to reading the CPC's theoretical journal
Very nice, and merry reading! I’ve been checking out Jiang Shigong, excellent stuff

[Anonymous No.18164982]

>>18164943
I think Westerners project onto China their own histories / ideologies / pathologies and mistakenly think China is going to replace the U.S. or the West in a hegemonic role. I don't think that is going to happen, but the West continues to play the hegemon while the costs of hegemony are beginning to outweigh the benefits -- that is one reason why there is a political crisis in the West.

Western ideology is based on it being the universal standard that everyone else must follow. This is not just something the elites believe but common people too. They're used to seeing themselves as like Captain Kirk and always giving the orders. But if that is no longer true, then they freak out and don't know how to deal.

https://youtu.be/WugEKDZF5I4

[Anonymous No.18165029]

>>18164964
>I’ve been checking out Jiang Shigong, excellent stuff
Bayysd

[Anonymous No.18165113]

I don't care for civilizations. You gotta become an unique individual who's beyond cultural and historical bounds.I use the language I've received to realize the language is trash, culture to realize the culture is trash etc...

[Anonymous No.18165160]

>>18160401
His philosophy is a reductionistic shtick of cherry-picking. His model does not accurately represent how civilisations work, and his understanding of the Roman Empire is laughable.

[Anonymous No.18165174]

>>18160544
Write a book?
But you aren't supposed to think you pansy

[Anonymous No.18165181]

>>18162045
So do I, but I can atleast agree with them that consumerism ultimately makes us unhappy and indeed somewhat childish.

[Anonymous No.18165190]

>>18164929
>PPP
Read: statistic poor people use to make themselves feel better.

It follows raw productive power (i.e population) rather than actual economic efficacy. Just like how Britain stomped China in the 1840s in spite of their larger economy: what matters is HOW that economy is comprised; in the 19-20th century's this meant:'how much of our economy is made up of industrialised GDP vs agricultural'.

Remember: for most of history GDP=Population.

[Anonymous No.18165205]

>>18162724
As an Anglo-American I resent this comment and ask it be stricken from the record

[Anonymous No.18165248]

>>18164963
>supposed to
lmao

[Anonymous No.18165255]

>>18165181
Consumerism doesn't make you unhappy, unhappiness is normal adulthood. Only children are happy. You ever heard of the "search for happiness"? It's a concept all adults are familiar with, because it can't ever be found.

[Anonymous No.18165269]

>>18160401
>ed to resent being born at the ass end of our civilization
but we are at the beginning of the civilization period you retard

[Anonymous No.18165404]

>>18162435
>>18162453
Trump seems like a Miguel Primo de Rivera/Sulla figure- a foreshock preceding the actual Caesar

[Anonymous No.18165407]

>>18165248
Yes

[Anonymous No.18165418]

>>18164763
>>18164903
Just admit that the graph is shit.

[Anonymous No.18165436]

>>18165404
>biden is caesar

[Anonymous No.18165492]

>>18165418
The graph is correct though. All graphs point to the same conclusion. That white civilization was never supposed to be some kind of miracle that outperforms everything.

[Anonymous No.18165535]

>>18163717
I cant really find a lot about it. Would you care to explain a bit more about it? What reforms did he do and how does it parallel to the times we are living in right now?

[Anonymous No.18165818]

>>18160563
>Elon Musk
KYS

[Anonymous No.18165844]

>>18160401
Learn to surf the Kali yuga. It's a vibe

[Anonymous No.18165855]

>>18160401
He doesn’t even say this. He even makes a distinction between culture, which blooms and decays, and civilisation, which has been part of different epochs in different forms.

You’re also showing yourself as a retard because he says the modern culture is going to bloom again in a spring after the winter of decline.

[Anonymous No.18166199]

>>18165492
Prior to the modern era it essentially reflects population size, but the population of (Northern and Eastern) Europe and the Americas is far, far larger as a percentage of the global population than ever before while China and India combined make up barely a quarter of the world (used to be something crazy like 65% at the peak).
So you implying the West will return to what it was at the year 1 as per the graph is simply retarded.

[Anonymous No.18166236]

I wish you "Western Chauvinists," would actually read Hegel or Plato. Maybe then you could evolve beyond Manichean good versus evil thinking and stop bitching about "muh globalhomo, muh Jooz." It's pathetic.

There is nothing new under the sun. The US has issues with inequality similar to ancient Athens and issues related to migration similar to ancient Rome. It needs a Solon to form a synthesis of ideals and bring reform.

What it definitely does not need is reactionary midwits.

[Anonymous No.18166256]

>>18166236
Meds, take 'em.

[Anonymous No.18166263]

>>18166236
>There is nothing new under the sun. The US has issues with inequality similar to ancient Athens and issues related to migration similar to ancient Rome. It needs a Solon to form a synthesis of ideals and bring reform.
You know this isn't a fair comparison.

[Anonymous No.18166273]

>>18165535
One of the most significant reforms that he introduced was legislation to support marriage and family as the glue of social stability. His successor continued this trend, outlawing adultery. He appears to have believed that an Empire that was seen to be interested in the health of its citizens would be easier to govern than one that exploited and neglected its people. There was a concern that families were disintegrating, that the traditional role of the father as paterfamilias or head of the household was compromised by women and children acting independently. Previously, men could do what they wanted with their children; in law, they owned them. Now, the idea started to emerge that while the father was head of the family, the best way to discipline children is through encouragement and use of reason. Roman men seemed to have preferred subordinate women, and complained loudly about women who were too powerful or wealthy, especially if they were richer than their husbands. However, Caesar knew that as the basic unit of society, the family was the microcosm of the wider empire. Harmony within the family could translate into a more peaceful empire. Moral families meant a moral empire. There was awareness here that moral laxity in one area, such as sexual relations, spills over into other areas and that leaders who were unfaithful in marriage might also be untrustworthy in public office.

[Anonymous No.18166306]

>>18160544
>Create something, write a book, take action.
God I fucking hate you so much. You are doing fuck all. People who try to do this immediately have to face reality, that is,
>ok now market your shit in the most ruthless slimy way imaginable or you will never exist
>cater to teenagers or you will never exist, even adults get to know shit through teenagers because they're the ones who scrool
>bend over here bend over there or you will never exist
>change every single little fucking thing that doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator or you will never exist
>be friendly with the establishment and people who support the establishment and everything that the establishment says and everything that the establishment wants you to sell or you will never exist
>literally become a fucking cog in this retarded drama-algorithm driven machine or you will never exist
So that YOU, on the far end of this, will download my shit off a pirate site or pay 0.2$ for it in a bundle or whatever the fuck and post on 4chan asking if it's worth reading it even if you have it right fucking there because you're too fucking lazy to even open a fucking PDF you pirated without making sure that it won't be a waste of time beforehand.
It's so fucking aggravating that people still have the nerve to spew this "be the change you want to see in the world" bull fucking SHIT.

[Anonymous No.18166356]

>>18165436
Biden is senile and his son is more interested in doing drugs and getting footjobs than ruling a nation.
A new Caesar will have to do all the stuff Trump's opponents were terrified he would do, but he never actually did. Keep the government shut down until you get what you want. Prosecute your opponents for the slightest misdemenour, but give the presidential pardon to your supporters. Break up tech and media giants with anti-trust law. Put opposition groups on the domestic terrorist list. Hire PMCs to enforce your rule.

[Anonymous No.18166377]

>>18166356
>Put opposition groups on the domestic terrorist list.
I thought America already took care of that lol

[Anonymous No.18166398]

>>18160401
If you're unsatisfied with your life, then you've gone astray from what it is you're meant to be doing. Protip: you very, very, very likely aren't meant to be thinking independently like you currently are, and instead should be working for somebody who is doing something more meaningful than you're personally capable.

[Anonymous No.18166414]

>>18166273
Augustus also enforced the new laws most strongly on his own family. He practiced fasting as a discipline. Basically he was the opposite of his detractors and willing to prove it by his actions.
This is how I imagine an American caesar might win the evangelical Christian base. After decades of broken promises, someone who actually does what he says he will do would inspire fanatical loyalty.

[Anonymous No.18166448]

>>18166356
Based on the memoirs of Trump's own appointees he actually did try some of that stuff, he just ended up with people threatening to resign and leak.

He pursued options to nullify the results of the election. He very clearly called the Georgia secretary of state with the intent of pressuring him to overturn the election, and he loved state legislators to overturn the election results and send Trump delegates instead of Biden despite him losing. He also leaned publicly on Pence to overturn the election.

The problem for Trump is that no one was particularly loyal to him. They were scared of him and his ability to wield the mob (see "hang Mike Pence" chants by rioters as soon as Trump turned on him) but he was widely seen as a corrupt baffoon by members of his cabinet and McConnel and the party leadership.

No one is going roll the dice big for someone who doesn't really stand for anything outside his own ego, and who isn't loyal to his followers. Trump's problem was his top level cabinet picks, like Tillerson have come out on record saying they thought he was a retard, and people don't revolt for retards. It wasn't lack of trying to see what he could get away with.

Anyhow, a Ceasar type figure needs a wide base. Something class based, not race based since even if immigration stopped tomorrow, America will soon be minority white and the whites that are around skew quite old and old people don't fight wars. As a conservative, I'd like to see them get their shit together. Bush took 50% of 18-24 voters in 2000. It was even. Trump lost them by 15 points. He lost under 55 voters by 9 and 11 points. Old people don't fight wars. They don't revolt. We need a conservative party with a vision outside "run the country like a going out of business sale for the Boomers). We borrowed 25% of every dollar we spent before COVID. More than half the budget is direct cash payments to seniors, universal senior healthcare, or debt payments, which is taxes older voters chose not to pay and to offload onto their kids. There is no future in a Boomer party.

Day of the Pillow is something everyone can rally around.

[Anonymous No.18166462]

>>18165492
Are (You) braindead? There was no
>India (it was formed in 1947)
>Germany (it was formed 1871)
>Italy (it was formed 1861)
And China as been wobbling in territory for thousands of years
Not to mention that cronology of the first graph is simply not accurate in terms of time representation; going from 1 to 1000 A.D. and then doing weird jumps.
Also, how did the person who made the graph calculate the GDP

[Anonymous No.18166469]

>>18166263
It's a perfect comparison. Athens and other Greek cities were continually torn apart by civil strife because returns on capital, in the absence of war or major reforms, almost always outstrip economic growth. This lead inexorably to an elite that controls more and more of society. The rise of strong kings, or of the Roman Emperors? All tied to the poor and middle classes wanting protection from rapacious nobility.

We have the same thing going on in the US now and we need reform or war to fix it.

As to foreigners, foreigners were a far greater share of the Roman and Persian Empires than any modern state. Actual Romans were a minority in Italy. Latins were a minority in the Empire. Persians were a minority in Iran proper, and Aryan peoples were a slim minority in the Persian Empire. Maybe 2 million tops, likely less, whole Egypt and Babylon alone boasted 5 million+. They were able to rule by bonding nationalities into a whole.

[Anonymous No.18166472]

>>18166377
Sometimes. It all depends who the opposition group are and whose pocket they are in. Going after Antifa rioters or Alt-right rallies is fairly easy. Shutting down a corporation or university department would be much harder, even if they are objectively doing more damage.

[Anonymous No.18166498]

>>18166462
>Distinct cultural/economic regions such as India or Italy didn't exist until their modern forms were created.

This is brainlet tier. It's obviously an attempt to estimate production by historical geographic/cultural regions.

[Anonymous No.18166526]

>>18160743
The final battle between Ahura Mazda and Ahriman

[Anonymous No.18166546]

>>18166448
Good post. I just don't think class and race are mutually exclusive. Multiculturalism is in the interest of the ruling class.

[Anonymous No.18166568]

>>18166498
>Distinct cultural/economic regions such as India or Italy didn't exist until their modern forms were created.
Yes, they didin't. India only exists because of civic nationalists like Gandhi; and you can look at places like the "Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam" that wanted independence until very recently (2009) BECAUSE of the cultural differences.
Sicily and Venice are also very distinct in culture (maybe not to the degree aforementioned)
>obviously an attempt to estimate production by historical geographic/cultural regions.
It's shit. Just admit it. I get the kernel of what you're saying (economic hegemony of the West was always meant to short lived; I disagree with it), but the graph is absolutely awful.

[Anonymous No.18166646]

>>18162084
For what its worth it seems like anti-vax sentiments are mutating into a new religiosity. There are millions of Americans who believe that they are ruled by a pedophiliac cliche of satanists who will genocide them at the first opportunity (I mean, can you blame them?). Thats a very potent ideology and if any serious negative side effects appear as a result of MRNa technology or the scared boomer ruling class becomes even more totalitarian trying to force them on people the movement could potentially grow exponentially.

[Anonymous No.18166689]

>>18160743
converting the entire planet into a factory farm for human biomass

[Anonymous No.18166690]

>>18166646
American religiosity really has plunged. 2008 were are among the most religious nations on Earth. 2020, among the least.

Politics has become the new source of meaning for millions of people. Republicans stopped going to church and started watching Q videos instead.

The result is that the Wokeilati and Q Tards both see political opponents as servants of Satan, pure evil, whole seeing their leaders as stand ins for God. Q in particular seems to be going almost Rastafarian levels in deifying Trump; plenty call him a prophet and I've seen at least a few Great Awakening posts insinuating that Trump may be Christ.

[Anonymous No.18166696]

>>18166448
Trump had the presidency, and therefore the presidential pardon. This allows you to have people do your dirty work with the promise that you will pardon them after. He also had the Prince family on his side, which allows for some truly spectacular levels of dirty work. He had (and still has) the money to build entire news channels, social media platforms or university departments. He had more publicity than anyone in the world. He had the most fanatic base in over a century. As we saw toward the end, people were even willing to storm the capitol and get shot for him.
In other words, he had Caesarian levels of opportunity. He just wasn't willing to cross the Rubicon.
Conservatism doesn't really exist to change anything. It functions largely as a sinecure to capture and pay off potential opposition to the actual ruling class. Same goes for socialists within the left. If you're not a neoliberal globalist, you don't get the backing of a major party except as controlled opposition. If you want to make the comparison to Rome again, remember Caesar ran with the Populares.
I think you're basically right about Day of the Pillow, but that would require an extreme break with the past. It's the kind of thing one could do having consolidated power already, but you wouldn't run with it as a campaign promise.

[Anonymous No.18166697]

>>18160401
>How are we not supposed to resent being born at the ass end of our civilization
yeah original amercans certainly would have had this attitude

adapt and stop being a whiny bum
you dont need to conform
the left is retarded, uninspiring, redundant, shame projecting, overly verbose, draining, lacking in creativity
really not hard to figure out how to move forward when these establish open economies to seize
also go outside and get off the internet
the west isn't "declining", it's just changing

[Anonymous No.18166703]

>>18160743
We dont know. The culture of the future hasnt been born yet

[Anonymous No.18166708]

>>18166306
>waaahhhhhhhh defeatism waahhhhh
you just suck dude stop projecting and get good

[Anonymous No.18166725]

>>18161538
the rise of china proves spengler's thesis. china "rose" by copying western civilization wholesale and yoking its fortunes to the winner of the cold war to great success. there's nothing chinese about modern china, it's a nation that only got to this point by rejecting every single organic element of its culture. their world is even more dead than ours

[Anonymous No.18166757]

>>18166725
lol hence why america and europe will never fall
the world relies on their fruits too much

you guys are cry babies
learn to adapt and work with whats happening
>go touch grass

[Anonymous No.18166767]

>>18163119
>Also consider the social credit system. Yes it uses surveillance technology to monitor people's actions but you are also able to improve that score. The US too has surveillance technology and people get burned because of it. Yet the government acts like the internet is free.
If you read Wang Huning's America Against America (there's a translated copy in the archive somewhere) he pretty explicitly states that the inspiration for social credit scores comes from regular credit scores and university admissions programs.
We've already been living in the supposed totalitarian state that China is turning into for several generations now. Only difference is that here we're expected to pretend it doesn't exist or face social cancelation and blacklisting.

[Anonymous No.18166799]

>>18166767
this social credit scored in America is just decentralized

[Anonymous No.18166807]

>>18166448
It's absolutely amazing to me how seniors bitch and complain and talk about how good we have it. They literally had the greatest period of prosperity in human history given to them and they still ran up $26 trillion in debt to pass us and didn't save enough to retire. They get UBI and universal healthcare, but slashed taxes for them to pay for it.

An honest political I'd vote for would say we have to cut welfare, including for seniors, AND raise taxes, and that we all need to dig ourselves out.

[Anonymous No.18166817]

>>18160401
Cry more incel. Today is the greatest time in human history and it will only get better.

[Anonymous No.18166821]

>>18166807
>An honest political
lol, not within liberal democracy

[Anonymous No.18166839]

>>18166690
Isn't this also what Spengler predicted? Second religiousness filling a world devoid of meaning.

[Anonymous No.18166875]

>>18161710
the great roman monuments were signs of decadence and the passage of culture into civilization. an active power doesn't have to reassure itself that it's a power with huge monuments, that's for declining powers who've lost faith in their imperial project. the french and british only felt the need to build big monuments when their powers began to recede

[Anonymous No.18166904]

>>18162105
the retro look as best suited for the miyazaki patchwork future, where the global logistics systems required for our current technological civilization have begun to permanently falter requiring people to begin relying on local resources more but with the ability to maintain pockets of high technology in a sort of bricolage. example: you live in the country and there's a steel bridge from the 20th century that's beginning to fail. no authorities will come to fix/replace it and no one local has the engineering know-how to design a replacement, but the locals use 3rd printers to make spare parts to keep it limping along. a situation very similar to medieval europe (especially considering how the manor system had its roots in the disruption of the roman trade network during the 3rd century crisis)

[Anonymous No.18166911]

>>18162435
the global elite have thrown everything at the wall to shore up the neoliberal consensus, just look at the circus that was last year. the economy died in 2008 and we've been living in a simulated version of it that gets more expensive to maintain with each passing year

[Anonymous No.18166934]

>>18164714
Links to this journal? Sounds interesting

[Anonymous No.18166946]

>>18164676
all politics is reduced to economics

[Anonymous No.18166964]

>>18164943
israel is being eaten alive by the cancer of hassidism, and israeli arabs will make up the majority of the country sooner rather than later

[Anonymous No.18166980]

>>18165190
most of history didn't have a crisis of overproduction so severe it required actively breeding homo consumerus

[Anonymous No.18166990]

>>18166946
Other way around

[Anonymous No.18167010]

>>18165492
>America didn't exist until white people showed up
We'll probably never accurately understand the past because most of the data has been destroyed. Don't forget that most colonialism was followed by a mass burning of books and persecution of educated classes.

[Anonymous No.18167018]

>>18166236
>There is nothing new under the sun. The US has issues with inequality similar to ancient Athens and issues related to migration similar to ancient Rome. It needs a Solon to form a synthesis of ideals and bring reform.
Solon plays the roles of the founding fathers in the US. How could America today possibly create a founding myth without its complete destruction and re-constitution?

[Anonymous No.18167036]

>>18166646
it works both ways, TDS became a religion also, with severe cases reversing positions on deeply held lifelong values sometimes 3 times in just a few weeks based on media messaging. i know a guy who went from loving james comey to hating james comey to loving james comey and buying his book

[Anonymous No.18167061]

>>18166807
It would be better by far to crash the dollar economy while giving the poor a way out. Land distribution would allow a distributed means of production where people could be autonomous and free.

[Anonymous No.18167080]

>>18167061
Distributionism?

[Anonymous No.18167083]

>>18166990
no, economics reduced to politics is actual communism. we live under a regime where every economic question is already decided by risk management experts and there is no place for discussion or compromise. that's why the american manufacturing sector was wiped out despite basically nobody wanting to see that happen. ditto our population growth for 30 years coming entirely from hispanic immigrants, has that ever been put to a vote?

[Anonymous No.18167091]

>>18167061
from a certain perspective high inflation would hurt the creditor class far more than the average worker (who lives hand-to-mouth anyways).

[Anonymous No.18167092]

>>18166807
What pisses me off more is that their final generation act has been to crash the world economy and scrap constitutional rights in order to save their own decrepit asses from a virus which presents barely any risk towards people under sixty.
Truly the worst generation.

[Anonymous No.18167114]

>>18160401
Adamastor, vai
pau neles Adamastor

[Anonymous No.18167165]

>>18166799
Exactly, which is why its even more nefarious. For all the many faults of Chinese social credit (and don't get me wrong I think it would be hellish to live under that), at least it is subjected to normal political forces. The social credit system in America is completely unaccountable, and for the most part the bulk of your social credit (university affiliation) has been determined by the time you turn twenty.

The last president that didn't attend college was Truman. The last president that wasn't 'prestigious' was Nixon, and look how that ended. With the current woke movement taking over institutions (and their complete attachment to credentialism) I doubt that anyone without the proper credentials will be allowed to enter civil service in twenty years times.

[Anonymous No.18167214]

>>18167036
I disagree. People have always had their five minutes of hate concerning political enemies, and wokism is very much (in my opinion) a form of class consciousness above anything.
Notice how most woke people come from privileged backgrounds, run in the same stratified university circles, automatically differ to 'authorities' (despite positioning themselves as revolutionary), and actively use cancellation as a form of economic terrorism against the lower classes (don't agree with us? we'll crash your career, take your job, and deprive you of social mobility for life). Its a paternalistic moral justification to an increasingly stratified and competitive economy-- one where you play the game and are allowed to have social mobility or you don't and get permanently cancelled.

[Anonymous No.18167243]

>>18166199
Yeah prior to the modern era everyone was equal and after it reflects that europeans took advantage of the industrial revolution and nobody else could. Now we're returning to a world where everyone is equal

[Anonymous No.18167244]

>>18167080
Exactly. At least, I take an Aristotelian view towards slavery: anybody not capable (mentally or financially) of independently setting and achieving their own goals is a slave. Without private property providing the means to self-sufficiency every man is a slave, and we need to do everything we can to end this system... if crashing the dollar to the ground with no survivors could accomplish this then I say do it. Nietzsche once said thatif you see something off balance then give it a good kick.

>>18167091
Exactly. I mean, it definitely hurts the average worker too, but that can provide the momentum to create a better system while also destroying the creditor class.

[Anonymous No.18167246]

>>18167214
i agree that wokeism is just a reactionary formation by the elite and aspirational class. i meant TDS specifically took on a religious dimension wherein the person of donald trump came to be the apotheosis of all the world's sins, a sort of negative sacredness. even the most hardcore Q-boomer never worshiped trump as a literal god (proxy for christ, yes) but those who were totally consumed with TDS literally thought that the evil of the world emanated from him directly. essentially an unconcious neo-manichaeism pretending to be coherent political positions

[Anonymous No.18167258]

>>18162105
>Most modern people don't like the idea of scientific progress stopping
I really wish it would just slow down, i hate the current pace of technology it's too goddamn fast and it's terrifying and also impossible to keep up with

[Anonymous No.18167282]

>>18160711
"We regard ourselves as the inheritors of Greek culture when in reality we are merely it's admirers."

-Spengler

[Anonymous No.18167292]

>>18167258
My problem is that its all behind pay-walls. It would be easy to deterritorialize technological advancement by making university research (which is already publicly funded) freely accessible and making it easier to browse patents online, but instead we get a situation where unless you're paying 40k a year or part of a big company you're effectively locked out of the future and forced to participate purely as a bystander and passive consumer.

[Anonymous No.18167298]

karting and formula is taking off in the US right now, get into motorsports. Work with your hands, your heart, and your mind

[Anonymous No.18167322]

>>18167165
how did we become China with these dumb government tests

[Anonymous No.18167324]

>>18167298
in the USA we have heterosexual motorsports like stock car racing and demolition derbies

[Anonymous No.18167342]

>>18167246
>>18167214
I am reading Revolt of the Elites and I feel like Lasch predicted a lot of this in the 90s. An international cosmopolitan elite class that allows entry through ideological compliance.

[Anonymous No.18167461]

>>18167342
the recent anti-police movement is absolutely a symptom of the greater secession of elites from civic life, private security for me none for thee

[Anonymous No.18167491]

>>18167322
The real blackpill is that China became Us. Read America Against America, the chapters on credit score, Huning expressly talks about how the

>>18167246
Idk, if you look at some of the vaccine threads on /pol/ people are starting to embrace eschatologies where the entire western world is ruled by satanists and vaccines are either the mark of the beast or a mass sterilization program that will directly proceed the end days. TDS can be stretched and exaggerated to be viewed as a religious event, but Q-friends are starting to literally adopt the kind of rhetoric you'd expect from ISIS or the Yìhequan. If there are unexpected side effects from the vaccine (which are completely likely, this is probably the biggest biotech trial in human history) I wouldn't be surprised to see convoys of Toyotas driving across the rust belt leaving mass slaughter and salted earth in their wake. This could especially become the case if, as >>18167342 says, an increasingly international elite makes it impossible for people to exercise even local power without total ideological compliance.

When the ruling class shuts the door on everyone else (and lets be realistic there's about as much social mobility now than there was during the so-called dark ages) then its inevitable that the powerless will turn to fanatical violence and physical destruction as their only means of fulfilling the power process.

[Anonymous No.18167510]

>>18167324
stock car racing, at least nascar, hasn't been heterosexual since the early 2000s and even then it was declining. right now it's the most boring shit to watch on planet earth. I've never raced an oval before so I can't comment on how fun it is, but formula is 10 times as heterosexual as gay shit going on in nascar right now. Also, formula 4 is actually affordable right now. Demolition derbies are cool.

[Anonymous No.18167576]

>>18167010
Native Americans often had barely any writing and its not like colonists went out of their way to burn libraries.

[Anonymous No.18167623]

>>18167491
>says, an increasingly international elite makes it impossible for people to exercise even local power without total ideological compliance.
Don't we already have that through the vehicle of money? Blue cities and states got bailed out. They're insulated from financial reality as a reward for their loyalty.

[Anonymous No.18167650]

>>18160401
Eastern Europe Gang Rise Up!

[Anonymous No.18167669]

>>18167576
They slaughtered the entire ruling class of the Aztecs and burned every scroll they could come across to the point that there are only a handful of codexes left (one of which contain astronomical information that wouldn't be "discovered" till several hundred years later).

In Algeria and Tunis many libraries were burnt and the entire administrative class was either killed or forced to flee to Turkey. Alexis de Tocqueville (who witnessed this firsthand) compared it to the emperor of China invading France, burning every French university to the ground, and killing every member of the civil service.

The use of residential schools in Canada wiped out about 90% of oral traditions, while the US went even further and genocided entire races of people so that they could build strip-malls over their bones. The USACE specifically targeted many Native American historical sites for 'development' so that they could continue to push this idea that Natives in the US were basically insentient cattle for whom "domestication" (ie, being reduced to a servile class in relation to the Yankee elites) was an inevitability.

You're standing on a mountain of lies and if you dig just a little bit into the history of what's really been happening over the last 500 years you'll start to see just how tremendous the 'known unknowns' of our time really are. We live in a period of profound ignorance.

[Anonymous No.18167687]

>>18167623
Yes, but the state is currently insulated from the shock of this by a supportive generation of baby-boomers who grew up during a time of unprecedented growth and prosperity and project these (highly localized) norms onto their children while dismissing current woke-ideologies as just some wacky but harmless generational equivalent to their hippy movement.

[Anonymous No.18167710]

>>18160743
The Atlantis-Hyperborea war. That is to say; WW3 between globohomo technocapital singularity in the West and the infra-psychic forces of Chaos in Russia.

[Anonymous No.18167811]

Am I not sure what's worse, being born in time to watch as the west slowly dies or be born in time to bear witness as it collapses. I kinda want to skip the foreplay and have the west die now, consequences be damned. At least then I can see the fallout and not have to guess.

[Anonymous No.18167814]

>>18166273
Thanks for responding anon. I have to say, i am skeptical about the family reemerging as the basic unit in western society. Not only culturally have we adopted individualism to an extreme degree, but also our environment has changed in a big way in recent years. Internet has allowed people to forge an identity beyond place of residence. Cities, especially in america, have become extremely disconnected by bad urban planning (suburbias). And the pace at which culture is moving has grown to a degree where generations have a bigger disconnection than ever before. In 1940 young people were fighting a world war, in 1960-70 young people were fucking and taking drugs out in the open. Today young people are on social media. If anything, i think the role of family will diminish even more in the coming years.

And another thing that has strongly changed is the little influence politics these days has on culture. Media and marketing has taken that over to a large degree. If some new leader comes up that supports these values, it will not be taken by the populace unless media supports the idea. We have seen time and time before that media does not like communities, it likes individuals. Individuals are easier to sell things to than strong communities.

[Anonymous No.18167824]

>>18167669
>In Algeria and Tunis many libraries were burnt and the entire administrative class was either killed or forced to flee to Turkey.

They could have just, you know, stopped the whole piracy and enslaving hundreds of thousands of europeans thing at the barbary coast.

[Anonymous No.18167846]

>>18167814
>individualism to an extreme degree
Not him (sorry to butt in) but every time people say that we're hyper-individualistic I can't help but feel that our individualism is really just atomization rather than "individualism" proper. Nobody in western society is truly a man of his own making and free to do as he pleases as long as he does not impose himself upon the rights of others, we're getting the worst aspects of both collectivism (schizophrenic mob rule and strict conformism) and individualism (atomization) rather than getting anything good out of either of them.

[Anonymous No.18167918]

>>18167846
>we're getting the worst aspects of both collectivism (schizophrenic mob rule and strict conformism) and individualism (atomization) rather than getting anything good out of either of them.
It does feel like that. It used to be that individualism was understood in the Aristotelian sense, that anyone who doesnt need others is either a beast or a god, but that this was seen as a rare exception, and not something to be thrust upon all people. By doing so, it's now obvious that most people are beasts, and not gods.

[Anonymous No.18168029]

>>18167824
The real reason France invaded was because the French King at that time owed a lot of debt to the King of Algeria, the height of piracy had been a hundred years previous and had mostly dropped off by then.

Not that that's relevant. The issue isn't if the war was just, the issue is what was lost in the process. Namely, several thousand years of written history. Imagine if Mexico invaded the US and burned ever university to the ground, don't you think there would be a permanent loss of knowledge in the event?

In particular, if you look at the Turban styles of the Cherokee on the East coast of the US, they are almost identical to the styles in North Africa. The official story is that turbans were adopted from Europeans, but its unlikely when you consider that I. Europeans don't wear turbans, and II. No other native American groups "adopted" turbans. There's also the whole lost Atlantan civilization which lies just off the coast there. The history we read about in school could have nothing to do with the actual facts, but any record which would have spoken otherwise was systematically destroyed.

[Anonymous No.18168030]

>>18167814
You speak of extreme individualism but then demonstrate how individualism has disappeared. Pic related argues that the saturation of politics goes hand in hand with the saturation of individualism, so the decline of politics must coincide with the decline of individualism. What we are seeing today is tribalism in feminism, LGBT, BLM, etc,. All are intangible urban tribes that absorb individual identity and force roleplay masks on those who partake in them. The whole thing is a charade in which a few individual cult leaders are raised above the faceless masses and direct the tribes like a filmmaker directs his actors. We call them influencers, Spengler would have called them Caesars.

[Anonymous No.18168113]

>>18168029
>invaded the US and burned ever university to the ground
That would be an improvement top kek

[Anonymous No.18168116]

>>18167846
Well in theory we really have an hyper-individualistic society. Unless you break the law, you can really be who you want to be to a large extent without being lynched or something similar. Maybe in practice you are right in saying it manifests itself more like atomization. The way i see it, is that in contemporary western society an individual has been given the limited freedom to choose his identity, regardless of the family he has been born in. In theory this would be good since everyone can specialize his identity to his nature. Problem is however that identity is always related to some group. Your identity only holds meaning in the context of the group you are part of. So instead of everyone forming their own specialized identities, most individuals flock to certain groups/tribes and conform to those ideas. In that way i agree to your last sentence.

[Anonymous No.18168145]

>>18160401
>completely cut off from either taking part in it or steering it to a better fate?
Less true of this generation than any generation before it, only we've reached the stage where each opposition is specialized to the point of self-cancelation, as none take the whole of the network into account, and each is in denial of the critical function of the other.

But never before has the individual, rich or poor, had so much power for change at their fingertips.

The irony is palpable.

[Anonymous No.18168182]

>>18167491
>The real blackpill is that China became Us
I’d say China took the surveillance technology being covertly developed by the US and did a Hegelian aufheben with it.

[Anonymous No.18168207]

I read 300 pages of volume 1 and lost steam when I realized I had no idea what the hell he was even saying for 90% of it.
How do I understand this book?

[Anonymous No.18168219]

>>18168116
>in contemporary western society an individual has been given the limited freedom to choose his identity,

The key issue here is that this tolerance only extends as far as it doesn't clash with the status quo, for example when it comes to religious tolerance, it is only tolerant as long as it remains a mere lifestyle choice rather than a collective effort that seeks to mold the world around it in the image of their vision.

[Anonymous No.18168287]

>>18168182
More than that, its the fusion between science, economy and politics that the chinese have adopted.

[Anonymous No.18168316]

>>18168287
Yet they seemed to have left all that individualism and appreciation of good samaritans lying there on the table, and somehow manage to forge the worst of both communism and capitalism into one beast.

Thankfully don't seem too interested in spreading their design much beyond their disputed borders, so much as demanding it never be criticized.

[Anonymous No.18168333]

>>18168219
You are free to convince other people to mold in the image of your beliefs. The reason it fails is because it has become less convincing than the gospel of science and money.

[Anonymous No.18168370]

>>18168287
>its the fusion between science, economy and politics
Is this not every government?
>>18168316
>manage to forge the worst of both communism and capitalism into one beast.
What makes you say this? The Chinese are polled as the happiest people on earth and support for their government consistently hovers at 80%. What you’ll find is that expats decrying China as “literally 1984” are almost always US funded propaganda pawns.

[Anonymous No.18168440]

>>18168316
>Thankfully don't seem too interested in spreading their design much beyond their disputed borders, so much as demanding it never be criticized.
How so? Their design is a direct copy of credit systems and university admissions systems in the West. I'd argue that the only major difference is that their social credit system is fully centered within the domain of politics (which is good and bad, but creates a level of accountability) whereas that in the west is entirely in the hands of unaccountable private interests.

[Anonymous No.18168461]

>>18168333
That's disingenuous. There are real power structures at work, and most of "common opinion" is formed as the result of billions of dollars of investment from state and private actors capable of printing money as they need it.
As far as I know it's illegal to print tens of millions of dollars and use it to pay media conglomerates to push your particular viewpoint as a private citizen.

[Anonymous No.18168655]

>>18168207
To read a polymath it is necessary to be a polymath. The bar of entry is extremely high, not just anyone can pick it up and understand it.

[Anonymous No.18168707]

>>18168207
Well first you have to read, and this is not a joke:
The Greeks (for philosophical foundations)
The Bible (to better understand the morals of the people. but it isn't necessary)
A bit of european history
A bit about the french revolution
And you should be set

[Anonymous No.18168731]

>>18168370
>The Chinese are polled as the happiest people on earth
no they arent

[Anonymous No.18169079]

>>18167243
Yeah, but if everyone is equally productive Europe and America will still be very strong simply because they have far more people relative to the world than they did before.
China and India aren't gonna reach ~70% of the world GDP again with 25% of the population unless they have their own new industrial revolution that the West somehow misses out on.

[Anonymous No.18169084]

>>18160544
that's not how it works

[Anonymous No.18169089]

>>18160563
reddit moment

[Anonymous No.18169095]

>>18168370
>Is this not every government?
It has become by far the dominating culture yes. But no this wasnt the case for governments prior to the rise of the west. Just look at china when the english came on their doorstep. Or the japanese who adopted the model rapidly in the meiji era, because they knew they wouldnt be able to keep up and protect themselves without it.

[Anonymous No.18169139]

>>18168461
Ironically your hold the same opinion on the power of money and science (of marketing).

[Anonymous No.18169146]

>>18169079
Yellow asians and brown asians will reach 50% of the world gdp though. And the rest will be americans, whites and blacks.

[Anonymous No.18169152]

>>18168370
>What makes you say this? The Chinese are polled as the happiest people on earth and support for their government consistently hovers at 80%. What you’ll find is that expats decrying China as “literally 1984” are almost always US funded propaganda pawns.
Not going to deny that framing of the ex-pats, but I think you've gone off the deep end in the opposite direction. They have no real oversight, and making everyone appear happy is kind of their modus operandi.

If the transparency the failed 1989 revolution demanded came to pass, and they hadn't, additionally, shifted away from pure technocracy by setting up their president for life, I might be more hopeful for them, but as it stands now, they really do seem to be the worst of both worlds. All the disheartening domination of the bottom line and none of the personal freedom, or even the socialism, to show for it. National syndicated corporate slave state, doubling down on its own model every day.

Not the worst government ever - not by a long shot - but the shear scale of the thing is terrifying, and its success begs to make it the norm, without it even trying, even with its strong interdependence on international trade. Sadly, the most successful states are not necessarily the most pleasant to live under.

[Anonymous No.18169173]

>>18169139
Say that in english please?

[Anonymous No.18169234]

>>18169173
I tell you there is freedom in identity formation in our culture as long as it is within the law. You tell me there is a limit to the tolerance of your identity formation outside of law and mention collective religious efforts as an example. I tell you that no one will prevent you from doing so, but that it probably will not be succesfull, because the gospel of money and science have become stronger in our age. You tell me thats unfair because a lot of money and science is used to push money and science.

[Anonymous No.18169257]

>>18166934
http://www.qstheory.cn/

That's actual CPC stuff. My browser autotranslates it which works well enough to make it readable but sometimes misses or mistranslates a few things. I also use a plugin called Zhongwen. I'd also recommend the website Utopia which is part of the Chinese New Left and is not representative of the party core (they are further to the left than the core) but these websites have a discursive influence in Chinese politics, and some have said Xi Jinping has borrowed from them:

http://www.wyzxwk.com/

>>18167669
I'm almost going to commit to American socialism with ancient American characteristics like Shadowrun or something:

https://youtu.be/C59oy6hUd4A

[Anonymous No.18169268]

>>18160401
>The West
Oh you mean Egyptian, Greek, Roman Jewish and Persian civilization?
>Nords adopted and carried those things forward, it's accurate to call it the Western Tradition, dont be a commie!!
Ok, so what you're complaining about is the Western Tradition having taken over the world then? Is that what you mean when you're talking about the "decline" of the West?
>.........

[Anonymous No.18169305]

>>18169268
>>18169268
>>Oh you mean Egyptian, Greek, Roman Jewish and Persian civilization?
>implying Spengler was a Eurocentrist
>insinuating Classical and Western culture is a continuum in the context of a Spengler thread
>misusing the word "civilisation" in the context of a Spengler thread
You're a barely human mongoloid who has no idea what you're talking about, at least most of the fags who come in here to deboonk at least bothered to skim his Wiki page.
Get the fuck out of this thread and don't come back.

[Anonymous No.18169328]

>>18169305
your uncontrolled rage tells me I hit the bulls eye, and I didnt even have to read this faggots wikipedia page to do it

[Anonymous No.18169387]

>>18169152
>All the disheartening domination of the bottom line and none of the personal freedom, or even the socialism, to show for it.
That depends on what you mean by socialism. I think Western socialism has been influenced by a kind of Christian welfare charity view, but I don't think they view it like that over there, and are in a curious way more Marxist. The Communist Manifesto says right away that everyone has to work. The wealth disparities in China are a huge contradiction though and potentially destabilizing, but the logic behind their thinking (I think) is that the working class can benefit from their production in the form of, say, bullet trains despite the existence of billionaires who also have to grovel before party officials and watch their asses.

Like, just look at how Elon Musk flouts the SEC's rules in the U.S. but has to be careful not to piss off the Chinese government if he wants to sell cars there. There was a protest at a car show targeting Tesla in Shanghai last month, a woman climbed up onto a car with a sign attacking Tesla's safety record, and the Global Times (state newspaper) covered it in positive terms... which means the Chinese government supports the protester. It's funny how that works.

About "socialism" though, I was reading some Chinese internet comments, and it was kinda funny, one person said they studied abroad in Germany and was talking to their German roommate about poverty alleviation, and the Chinese person explained that the way the Chinese government is addressing poverty is to make people work and they'll send you to vocational training. And the German roommate was like "you can't do that, that's forced labor." Then the Chinese person was asking others "...but that's the government's responsibility... I don't know how to explain this..."

It's just a different mentality. But I think it's very communist in fact except they've dropped the almost utopian Judeo-Christian Messianic thing for communism as an intuitive ideal which Jiang Shigong here >>18164964 has reconfigured, while keeping the dialectical method of analysis which is also a thing in some traditional Chinese philosophies.

https://youtu.be/ojpN6PjRcQc?t=991

[Anonymous No.18169416]

>>18169257
Nice. Thanks anon, very interesting stuff.

[Anonymous No.18169427]

>>18166817
Neoliberalism has been dying since 2007, it's basically a fringe view in Europe (for example) nowadays and the last great hope Biden is essentially copying all of Trump's policies (retreating from the world stage (Afghanistan), increasing protectionism, stronger border defenses/outright telling Haitians and Mexicans to gtfo, etc).
I genuinely don't know how you can choose such a mild, centrist ideology and still end up with egg on your face, but neolibs are 3 for 3 (Trudeau ended up being a racist global laughing stock, Macron ended up being a nationalist and strong protectionist, while Biden I've just explained).
Not that Ted schizos aren't retarded, too.

[Anonymous No.18169440]

>>18169268
>>18169328
Just embarrassing.
>I didnt even have to read this faggots wikipedia page
Yeah, and it shows. You're actually arguing in favor of Spengler'view on history and don't even realize it.

[Anonymous No.18169568]

>>18169427
>I genuinely don't know how you can choose such a mild, centrist ideology and still end up with egg on your face, but neolibs are 3 for 3
I think neoliberalism as an ideology has become a careerist thing. It is an ideology of course, but it presents itself as non-ideological, and legitimizes itself by saying "well it's the worst system except for all others." But that's very cynical and people are not wrong to react against it.

India has a sorta similar situation where the Congress party has collapsed because it was just a machine for career politicians and didn't stand for anything. It was a big-tent party, but if you're a right-winger, now you're just going to join the BJP. On the left meanwhile, it has become a coalition of regional parties while the Congress is a shell, but Congress still has a lot of leftover infrastructure so people will still vote for them in some areas as infrastructure glue for this bigger coalition.

The other force on the left is the Communist Party, but only electorally in a few areas yet they have hundreds of millions of people in mass organizations they control and wield power kinda like the movement around Bernie Sanders does (roughly speaking) where the point isn't really to win elections, you contest them but that's inherently bourgeois so it's just a tool while the real effort is on the ground game and building mass organizations and cooperatives and so forth:

https://youtu.be/UzwCBnYZgbE?t=2320

[Anonymous No.18169635]

>>18166817

[Anonymous No.18169666]

>>18169095
Right, it’s a must for today’s governments.

[Anonymous No.18169744]

>>18169387
Think a fair example is the lack of universal health care, in a nation run by a "communist" party. They have a similar patchwork of insurance programs to the US, and while their coverage is certainly better than the US (because whose isn't), they lack true universal health care, even in emergency rooms, and don't have nearly the coverage of many European nations.

Meanwhile the bottom line has become everything for the government and half of everything they make ordered for export for foreign interests, all of which makes me sure they could end all their power needs, just by finding a positive and a negative as Mao spins at the speed of light in his tomb.

[Anonymous No.18169916]

>>18166306
Yet despite all of it you would have done infinitely more than the man who sits by and watches civilisation fall through their hands like sand.

Is fighting against a greater enemy useless if you are bound to lose? Or is it better to fight against it out of duty to yourself. For surely it is better to at-least have tried rather than to succumb to defeatism without even the first breath of revolt. It's not being the change you wish to see in the world, It's not "be the change you want to see in the world" It's about overcoming a self idealising notion that you can do naught and still watch the world burn, and it's most certainly not (in function perhaps) about preventing the world burning its about the effort of done something against it. For at least you would've brought a pale and threw water onto the fire.

It could well be ultimately futile but still an endeavour worth taking and furthermore is it not greater to be the man who doesn't wish to appeal to a lowest common denominator and simply does it out of love for themselves? Or should they simply succumb to commercialism for "wider appeal" as you abhor.

[Anonymous No.18169994]

>>18160401
If it makes you feel any better, you would have never had a chance to do anything to steer your civilisation to a better fate, regardless of the era.

[Anonymous No.18170180]

>>18160401
The west was irrevocably broken by the time of the enlightenment. Be happy that it has permanently stamped the history of this world with it's mark, but it's time to let it go. Europeans and their obsession with tolerance and equality have done this, and it won't stop until that has collapsed, there can be no smooth transition that will save everyone. Europeans will continue to live and given time under the new system may even prosper. Though they are declining, do not believe they will just up an disappear. Even today there are Jomon, native americas, aboriginals, Europeans will not disappear, but they will lose the power they once wielded. The candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long.

[Anonymous No.18170437]

>>18169916
It might be more constructive to set up a Youtube channel, than to storm Elon Musk's estate.

Fight smarter, not harder. Any old mook can capture the public's imagination, with a few choice moments and a little luck.

[Anonymous No.18170480]

>>18170180
Half a millennia is a pretty good run... Not that I expect to see the results of the influence of western culture vanish within another half millennia. Even if the Europeans themselves are bred out of existence, as this domain so often claims will happen, the other races have merely picked up the torch, and are using all the same methodologies we gave them. The enlightenment western ideology isn't going anywhere, anytime soon, and may even be spread among the stars before we see any real evidence of it fading here, even Asia and the Middle East seem to be drowning themselves in its inevitable success, and have far more in common with the west than they ever had in the past.

[Anonymous No.18170504]

>>18166306
>>18166306
Try or cry faggot.
Or you could just stop caring. Civilisation is seriously a bullshit notion invented to justify the slave trade. Your taking it way to seriously imo. Read like Epictetus or Lao Tze or something.

[Anonymous No.18170505]

>>18166817
Cringe, shut the fuck up asshole. And I fuck regularly so no, your dumb idea doesn't work.

[Anonymous No.18170540]

>>18170437
Certainly, and in truth I'm more against the attitude of "well I can't go and change something so I shouldn't try", because that form of thinking is horribly constrictive and is the anathema to any form of real change found within yourself or elsewhere.

Certainly if you wished to sway public opinion being someone who has half a brain on YouTube will probably help far more than being the man shit posting on a rip-off of some Japanese anime forum.

[Anonymous No.18170554]

>>18170480
>Enlightenment western ideology isn't going anywhere
No you got it completely wrong, no one will pick up the torch which burned it's previous owner alive. Europe is more anti-semitic than ever before and it's not because of Europeans ironically.
>inevitable success
it's failing, if it weren't we wouldn't be at this stage

[Anonymous No.18170663]

>second religiousness
this is why there's hundreds of Christianity threads on this site, right?

[Anonymous No.18170697]

>>18160401
"The West" has been over several times before. The Peloponnesian War, the crisis of the third century, the Muslim conquests, Black Death, 30 Years War, etc.
Yes one phase is over. But you know what all the books will be preserved. A new phase will come in 200, 500 or 1000 years.
As for us, have kids, read books, enjoy the spectacle.

[Anonymous No.18170742]

>>18160563
based

[Anonymous No.18170830]

Spenglers theories are pseudo scientific drivel

They’re unfalsifiable, outlandish and literary. There’s no such thing as a “world spirit”. The Chinese aren’t going to magically stop imitating the USA once they get their “spring” going. Our reality is fundamentally material and changes in culture are the result of material changes in technology. Discussion of metaphysical world spirits reveals nothing. The western enlightenment, or the Faustian spirit or whatever is a result of the printing press. The dissemination of technology across the globe is what’s causing homogenisation of our culture, and nothing going to to stop it

Marx was mostly right and Spengler is a retard.

[Anonymous No.18170889]

>>18170830
>Spengler is pseudo-science
>Marx isn't
Whew boy.

[Anonymous No.18170923]

>>18170554
>>18170697
Alright, ya got me - what stage is over, specifically?

[Anonymous No.18170944]

>>18167461
You guys have a bit of a disjointed view of elite
They don't want to play babysitter to the species. They want people to claim their independence. Otherwise we are not evolving.
They've secured their position enough to not feel threatened.

[Anonymous No.18171004]

>>18170830
>The Chinese aren’t going to magically stop imitating the USA
?????
the fuck are you talking about nigga

[Anonymous No.18171084]

>>18171004
Maybe you've been under a rock, but the "communists" are beating the capitalists at their own game now.

[Anonymous No.18171093]

>>18171084
And it's great

https://youtu.be/WF_q_vLEBLg?t=58

[Anonymous No.18171105]

>>18171084
>all capitalist countries are imitating America
Christ almighty man get a grip

[Anonymous No.18171164]

>>18170923
the massive expansion from 1500 onwards - colonisation of the New World, science, the enlightenment, industrial revolution, etc. Remember in the year 1900 there were still literal unsettled frontiers being incorporated into the zone of European man (western USA, outback Australia, etc). That is all ended and the contraction is in full swing.

[Anonymous No.18171309]

>>18170663
Not really no, its a precursor to it but not it at all. People on this website want to be trad like why Evola was in search of Tradition. Religion backs up a worldview, which is reason being in control of religion. Second religiousness is the opposite. It is the death of the intellectual soul of a culture and its return to irrationality. A good example of this is Islam today in the middle east.

>>18170697
>"The West" has been over several times before.
For Spengler "the west" does not include the Greeks/Romans who to Spengler is a different culture entirely. He separates classical Apollonian culture with western Faustian culture who are different in their metaphysical quests of expression. Ex: Greeks/Romans sought out to prefect the moment while western man seeks out an infinite space.

>>18170830
>They’re unfalsifiable, outlandish and literary
They are easily falsifiable. In fact its not hard to break Spengler's model. India and China have a ton of instances where they deviate from his model after their original imperiums form.
>The Chinese aren’t going to magically stop imitating the USA once they get their “spring” going
Okay your issue is you just don't understand his model.
>Our reality is fundamentally material
Okay your are high on ideology. I shouldn't waste my time anymore but I'll bite. Even if reality is material (which it may not be read Kant) that doesn't mean we cannot analyze things in a morphological scene. And lets get past this your model is wrong talk. All models are wrong. Some are useful. We judge models not based upon assumptions that go into the models but upon its explanatory power and predictive power.

In fact lets take a look at Marx vs Spengler in this regard. Marx's Hegel over material aspects breaks fundamentally in several instances. First it does not work at all in a non-western (non-spenglerian western that is) senses. Why is it that China's class relations have till recently been extremely stable, why has it been that Meso America and the middle east have reverted in terms of Material conditions and class within their history (around the time of the aztecs and the time of the expansion of Islam respectively.) On predictive power Marx outright fails. Nothing on the historical outlook has come true for Marx. The societies that did progress in the dialect did so in extremely odd ways counter to Marx in fact. China and Russia feudal areas leapfrogged while the west has more or less stayed stagnate in terms of class relations.

Now for Spengler. Spengler breaks when it comes to India and China a bit. Both who were civilizations past their point of creativity still produced creative men after their imperiums came forward. Spengler argues it was just repeats or foreign influence but it breaks the rule a ton so he was likely wrong in these cases somewhere. Otherwise he does well on this front. On predictive power his model has yet to be wrong in a meaningful way. I'm not left waiting unlike Marx.

[Anonymous No.18171323]

>>18171093
China is busy doing this shit and our leftists in America are busy screeching on twitter all day about abolishing capitalism and giving America back to alcoholic native tribesmen.

It's fucking hard to not feel a little envy

[Anonymous No.18171349]

>>18160401
isn't Spengler's whole thing cyclical? why so fatalistic...sounds very abrahamic to me

[Anonymous No.18171389]

>>18171164
So we're out of shit to take over on the planet, and civilization is over. Okay then. I guess that is a valid win in Sid Meier's world. Dun think it works quite that way in real life though. If anything, that's the beginning of a new game.

[Anonymous No.18171392]

>>18171105
The west invented capitalism with the East India Trading company, and the "communists" nation's only reason to exist was to oppose that model. Suddenly they decided, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, and it worked, in the worst way possible.

[Anonymous No.18171420]

>>18171309
>Ex: Greeks/Romans sought out to prefect the moment while western man seeks out an infinite space.
I guess that's why the Romans were always so eager to stay in Rome, and never went out and conquered more land for the empire.

Oh wait, they did the other thing.

Not that I'm not a little sick of every western and eastern empire trying to be "new Rome", and Europeans considering themselves the empire's in inheritors despite the fact that both the Greeks and Romans saw them as the worst of all the barbarians. Hell, the Roman empire was still running at its peak by the time those "master race" Vikings managed to pick up a writing system.

[Anonymous No.18171430]

>>18171084
China is more capitalist than the modern American left. It's not communists beating capitalists at their own game, but capitalism still triumphing over communism, ironically.

[Anonymous No.18171442]

>>18171105
>>18171430
You're pretty delusional to think that American leftists, who do nothing but protest alongside Obama in BLM rallies and change their gender every weekend as a form of protest, are closer to actual Communism than China is.

[Anonymous No.18171446]

>>18170830
Okay, sure, I can acce-
>Marx was mostly right
LOL

[Anonymous No.18171459]

>>18171442
>China is more capitalist than the modern American left.
That's not what he said... Though I'd go further and say they're also more capitalist than the American Right, save they have no qualms with the government running the corporations, and indeed, see it as the ideal. On a national scale, however, more capitalist than even the tea party would dare dream of (who really just wants to return to mercantilism).

[Anonymous No.18171590]

How much does living in a entropic universe play a role if at all in decline? To me it sounds too perfect of an answer, but there's no proof.

[Anonymous No.18171656]

>>18171590
Absolutely none, on this scale. Intelligence and life are organizing principles anyways, and anti-entropic by nature, save the energy that goes into it.

If there were a lack of social energy and it were a closed system, one might be able to make that argument of the collective psychology, but ain't none of that happening. Everyone's more at each other's throats than ever. It's true, we're only now we're beginning to accept war is now hardly an option, but the war of opinion seems to have no end and is hotter than it's ever been.

The Internet has had the effect of putting everyone in the world smack up against each other's faces, and we're only just beginning to deal with the consequences of that.

[Anonymous No.18172341]

>>18165113
Behold, a woman!

[Anonymous No.18172374]

>>18165205
Request accepted

[Anonymous No.18172378]

>>18162724
You are a retard. Are you a coping immigrant to the US or are you just a retard? Perhaps you should read up on the founding of your nation.

[Anonymous No.18172380]

>>18165113
>You gotta become an unique individual who's beyond cultural and historical bounds
This is impossible, no matter how much you try, you won't exist on a vaccuum, besides, what does being a unique individual means to you? some pretentious bullshit no? Civilization and society don't take away your individuality nor your personality every single time.

[Anonymous No.18172405]

>>18165113
A woman or a 14 year old

[Anonymous No.18172416]

>>18165492
>The quality of American education
Who do you think ruled 'India' for a very long time?

[Anonymous No.18172420]

>>18167669
Who cares. The United States as we know it was built by European settlers, Canada too.

That's what happens during colonisation and then settling.

[Anonymous No.18172422]

>>18172416
Musalman

[Anonymous No.18172427]

>>18172420
The United States was established by European settlers, Canada too.
Not built. It was built by blacks and chinese.
The state essentially changes when you change the head of state and purge lots of officials

[Anonymous No.18172428]

>>18168029
Schizoid Reddit tier posting

[Anonymous No.18172433]

>>18171349
>Cyclical
>Abrahimic
Holy fuck the absolute state of /lit/

[Anonymous No.18172451]

>>18172422
The British you fat yank retard

[Anonymous No.18172456]

>>18172427
>Not built. It was built by blacks and chinese.
You understate the contributions of the European settlers, they built it too. Classic Reddit.

[Anonymous No.18172468]

>>18172451
>100 years is a long time
From 1850 to 1950 is nothing. Like the mongol empire

[Anonymous No.18172469]

>>18172427
The North Africans, Arabs, Argentines (and many other nations) you wank over also had slaves, and still do. Do you know what they did with them?

[Anonymous No.18172471]

>>18172456
Maybe the Irish did (they're not white, you fucking racist brits)

[Anonymous No.18172489]

>>18172468
Hahahaha, my man just did a quick Google search and opened Wikipedia. The British controlled India for longer than that

[Anonymous No.18172494]

>>18172471
The presence of Irish ancestry in European-Americans is overstated because they hate the British. It's a cope, many more of them are English and lowland Scot than Irish

[Anonymous No.18172495]

>>18172489
It certainly wasn't 200 years.
Officially it was just 100. Unofficially it might be 190.

[Anonymous No.18172499]

>>18160401

[Anonymous No.18172509]

>>18172495
My point was that the East India company landed in India in the early 1600s, controlled it from 1757 to 1947, but had major economic power far earlier than that.

[Anonymous No.18172513]

>>18172509
Well your point clearly sucks. Major economic power means nothing. They couldn't stand up to Aurangzeb with that

[Anonymous No.18172520]

>>18172513
I was originally talking about economy in the post I replied to, you illiterate monkey

[Anonymous No.18172535]

>>18172380
>you won't exist on a vaccuum
But I do. Do you think the folks who rule over you care about some ideals or civilization bullshit? Nah. They are unique individuals who are wholly depraved of ideals and wholly cynical and pragmatic

[Anonymous No.18172561]

>>18172499
YWNBAW

[Anonymous No.18172567]

>>18172535
Not only are you directly affected by it, as you are indirectly, communicating with us, who are also directly affect by it.
>cynical and pragmatic
Those are their ideals. They have them. And if they truly rule us in a centralized and powerfull manner, those values leak into society, and affect us. But yes, even them are a product of our society and don't exist outside of it. Do you think people like Klaus Schwab would be anything were they born in Uganda?

[Anonymous No.18172599]

>>18161531
>Europe is literally imploding upon itself.
I live in Europe and naah. Lifes alright :)

[Anonymous No.18172742]

>>18161505
>Russia is just entering its spring phase
lol

[Anonymous No.18172752]

>>18172567
>Do you think people like Klaus Schwab would be anything were they born in Uganda?
Duh? What do you think the ruling class in Uganda is like? Nepotism is the 1 most important word that you need to know to understand everything about African rulers. Theyre even worse than Western leaders

[Anonymous No.18172829]

>>18172752
But they are people of lesser ambition as they are people of a lesser society.

[Anonymous No.18172841]

>>18172752
Besides, if they are as nepostic as you say, then Klaus would not rise to power. Only Western society made it possible.
You are a product of our society, and you denying that probably only reveals you as parasite.

[Anonymous No.18173572]

>>18172599
t. Hasn't been paying attention

[Anonymous No.18173705]

>>18171093
Cringe video

[Anonymous No.18173715]

>>18171656
Thanks for the good reply, anon. I would say collective psychology is a thing, but we're not the borg or a hivemind. As a species we create entropy, but this isn't unique to us.

[Anonymous No.18173827]

>ctrl + f
>no Pompeii soldier standing his guard quote
Pretty good thread.