/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17946622]

Say what you want about him but he is right that what made Western Civilization so great was individualism and that moving away from it to collectivist marxism has brought nothing but problems.

[Anonymous No.17946629]

spot on anon

[Anonymous No.17946633]

have you read Marx? Marx is individualistic - his idea of freedom is freedom of one (freedom of one is the requirement for freedom of all). His collectivism is to solve collectivistic issues, but communistic utopia is individualistic, mate.

[Anonymous No.17946643]

>>17946633
Wrong. communism aims to make everyone the same, same pay for jobs, same possessions, some places even went so far as to make everyone where the same clothes (see pic). No great achievements or art has ever come out of a communist nations and even commies will admit that themselves.

[Anonymous No.17946644]

Individualism is a cancerous, ideological prop.

Calling anything other than extreme individualism "Marxism" is another sorry prop. According to Peterson, Jesus would be a marxist.

[Anonymous No.17946647]

islamophobia aint cool dawg

[Anonymous No.17946659]

>>17946643
Asked if OP actually read Marx.
response: Communism bad.
Mate, I am not here to tell ya communism good nor bad, I am here to tell ya that Marx is individualistic. Even the fucking mottoo Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen is individualistic.

[Anonymous No.17946675]

>>17946659
Is Kropotkin individualistic?

[Anonymous No.17946677]

>>17946622
What is western civilization and why is it so great?

[Anonymous No.17946691]

>>17946675
Is that somehow answering my first question?

In the case of Kropotkin, depends. His writing is mostly about giving a counter-argument to Darwinism and giving an alternative explanation to human behavior with his principle of solidarity. His utopia is a set of communities and collectives, so saying that he is individualistic doesn't sound right.

At the same time, he was looking into individualistic motives. But if I follow the case with Marx and I judge based on the ideal state, the idea of freedom in this state, he seems more collectivístic than Marx.

[Anonymous No.17946700]

>>17946677
[western civilization] is an encryption of "American exceptionalism" and "manifest destiny" for the uneducated and European art, music, literature, philosophy, and statecraft for the highbrow

[Anonymous No.17946703]

>>17946622
>Say what you want about him but he is right that what made Western Civilization so great was individualism
Substantiate this.

[Anonymous No.17946705]

>>17946643
>No great achievements or art has ever come out of a communist nation
Nigger you just went full retard.

[Anonymous No.17946710]

>>17946691
No, I was just curious. I haven't read Kropotkin and assumed that, since you're familiar with Marx, you'd also have some other knowledge about theory. I've read a lot of Marxist stuff but haven't branched into anarchism beyond Spooner and Bakunin, so I'm just curious. I appreciate the reply

[Anonymous No.17946733]

>>17946705
name one

[Anonymous No.17946736]

>>17946710
In that case, I suggest reading Kropotkin. His questions are outdated, however, they can give you a good starting point into more thinking.

If you read Spooner, try Saint Max (part of Marx's German ideology), which is basically Marx going ape-shit on poor Max.

Or give a Nechayev's Catechism of a Revolutionary a read. Kinda "end justifies the means" revolution for revolution tautology, but he gives a good insight to some aspects of anarchism

[Anonymous No.17946742]

>>17946733
hmm... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_realism, rings a bell? or Palace of Culture and Science ;)

[Anonymous No.17946745]

>>17946622
>to collectivist marxism
Where in the world is collectivist marxism happening? Not even China is marxist anymore.

[Anonymous No.17946757]

>>17946736
thank you very much anon

[Anonymous No.17946758]

>>17946742
That art style was stolen from nazi Germany

[Anonymous No.17946759]

>>17946758
any proof for that?

[Anonymous No.17946772]

>>17946622
>what made Western Civilization so great was individualism

Individualism is precisely what's wrong with the west, Peterson would do well to learn from the works of Rene Guenon

>BY INDIVIDUALISM we mean the negation of any principle higher than individuality, and the consequent reduction of civilization, in all its branches, to purely human elements; fundamentally, therefore, individualism amounts to the same thing as what, at the time of the Renaissance, was called 'humanism'; it is also the characteristic feature of the 'profane point of view' as we have described it above.

>Indeed these are but different names for the same thing; and we have also shown that this 'profane' outlook coincides with the antitraditional outlook that lies at the root of all specifically modern tendencies. That is not to say, of course, that this outlook is entirely new; it had already appeared in a more or less pronounced form in
other periods, but its manifestations were always limited in scope and apart from the main trend, and they never went so far as to overrun the whole of a civilization, as has happened during recent centuries in the West.

>What has never been seen before is the erection of an entire civilization on something purely negative, on what indeed could be called the absence of principle; and it is this that gives the modern world its abnormal character and makes of it a sort of monstrosity, only to be understood if one thinks of it as corresponding to the end of a cyclical period, as we have already said.

>Individualism, thus defined, is therefore the determining cause of the present decline of the West, precisely because it is, so to speak, the mainspring for the development of the lowest possibilities of mankind, namely those possibilities that do not require the intervention of any supra-human element and which, on the contrary, can only expand freely if every supra-human element be absent, since they stand at the antipodes of all genuine spirituality and intellectuality

[Anonymous No.17946782]

>>17946772

>Individualism implies, in the first place, the negation of intellectual intuition-inasmuch as this is essentially a supra-individual faculty-and of the knowledge that constitutes the true province of this intuition, namely metaphysics understood in its true sense. That is why everything that modern philosophers understand by the word metaphysics-if they admit the existence of anything at all under this name-is completely foreign to real metaphysics; it consists indeed of nothing but rational constructs or imaginative hypotheses, and thus purely individual conceptions, most of which bear only on the domain of 'physics', or in other words of nature.

>Even if any question is touched upon that could really belong to the metaphysical order, the manner in which it is envisaged and treated reduces it to the level of 'pseudo-metaphysics', and precludes any
real or valid solution. It would seem, indeed, as if the philosophers are much more interested in creating problems, however artificial and illusory they may be, than in solving them; and this is but one aspect of the irrational love of research for its own sake, that is to say, of the most futile agitation in both the mental and the corporeal domains.

>It is also an important consideration for these philosophers to be able to put their name to a 'system', that is, to a strictly limited and circumscribed set of theories, which shall belong to them and be exclusively their creation; hence the desire to be original at all costs, even if truth should have to be sacrificed to this 'originality': a philosopher's renown is increased more by inventing a new error than by repeating a truth that has already been expressed by others. This form of individualism, the begetter of so many 'systems' that contradict one another even when they are not contradictory in themselves, is to be found also among modern scholars and artists; but it is perhaps in philosophy that the intellectual anarchy to which it inevitably gives rise is most apparent

[Anonymous No.17946809]

>>17946622
>what made Western Civilization so great was individualism
Please go back

[Anonymous No.17946821]

>>17946643
Communism is when you live in a pod and eat bugs...oh wait no that actually never happened in communist societies but it is happening in our capitalist one.

[Anonymous No.17946823]

Marx would have liked entrepreneurship and small business.

[Anonymous No.17946827]

>>17946772
Guenonchad...I kneel...

[Anonymous No.17946828]

>>17946758
Commies also stole fashwave

[Anonymous No.17946837]

>>17946821
Because of marxist influence in our institutions

[Anonymous No.17946838]

>>17946782
>>17946772
based, Peterson is espousing the values that has undone and destroyed tradition and community as the value that has created, and now, must save it.

Typical rightoid brain, they want all the benefits of modernity without their consequences.

[Anonymous No.17946840]

>>17946622
>moving away from it to collectivist marxism
The midwit take I love the most is that we’re Marxist ackchually(somehow??)

[Anonymous No.17946845]

>>17946705
he is right, retard

[Anonymous No.17946846]

>>17946840
postmodernism and cultural marxism

[Anonymous No.17946848]

>>17946837
LOL please kys retard. Last time I checked Schwab isn’t a communist he wants hyper capitalism.

[Anonymous No.17946858]

>>17946837
Any particular influence? Also, if we again speak about Marx directly... His whole schmuck is to undermine the role of institutions (economy>institution, not the other way around).

[Anonymous No.17946860]

>>17946846
Postmodernism is explicitly anti Marxist. But this is probably a bait thread anyway so whatever.

[Anonymous No.17946862]

>>17946837
Where? Who? name them! or are you just spotting the same made-up bullshit as the notorious drug addict Jordan Peterson

[Anonymous No.17946866]

>>17946759

[Anonymous No.17946873]

>>17946848
Nah he means the jews. You know the people who are simultaneously radical marxist communist and the elite capitalist banker profiting off the global economy.

[Anonymous No.17946875]

>>17946860
I love when commies try to distance themselves from postmodernism even through practicelly every french post modernist was a self avowed commie

[Anonymous No.17946884]

>>17946862
Literally every university and school in the US. Major corporations don't even hide it. Look at how many have a rainbow flag in their logo

[Anonymous No.17946890]

>>17946873
Muh jewish bolshies(ignore the fact that Poles and Latvians were more overrepresented in the CPSU than Jews)
I assume you got your whole ideology off infographs?

[Anonymous No.17946894]

>>17946643
Just admitting you've never read him would have been less embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.17946909]

>>17946846
>cultural marxism
Look at this fucking brainlet. He actually fell for the lowest, most obvious /pol/ meme.

[Anonymous No.17946910]

>>17946866
Aestheticization of politics, and Walter Benjamin, as expected :D If you read him, then you see that politics as spectacle is something essential to totitarism. Which if we look chronologically is more Italian/Sovietian than German ;)

[Anonymous No.17946918]

>>17946894
the worst part is that there are collective Marxists. There is a lot of collective work of postmarxistic thinkers. But OP doesn't know schmuck, he just baits :D

[Anonymous No.17946926]

>>17946894
>reading literal propaganda
he lies right through his teeth. if you want to learn about communism look at history, not what lies they tell you

[Anonymous No.17946927]

>>17946622
Marxism is when capitalism plays out exactly like Marx said it would and breaks down social barriers and the more capitalism does that the more Marxist it is

[Anonymous No.17946940]

>>17946926
>Jordan Petersonfag
>Calling Marx propaganda
Rofl.

[Anonymous No.17946957]

>>17946622
>Another anti Marx thread where the OP is a retard who’s never even read Marx
It’s all so tiresome

[Anonymous No.17947095]

>>17946957
See
>>17946926

History teaches us much more than books ever could

[Anonymous No.17947177]

>>17947095
Please just kys. The “””history””” you think you know is probably some trash like Conquest or Solzhenitsyn

[Anonymous No.17947338]

>>17946884
Not that anon, take your meds.

[Anonymous No.17948728]

>>17946622
We should take the poison of insanity that individualism and hypercapitalism can offer us, and complete the total faustian myth, inducing an overdose of nihilism and in frenetic euphoria claim that the human body and entity is only the instrument of capital and nothing more, then by next accelerate ourselves with capital itself, generating markets for the body and mind and acquiring the totality of meaning that capital has. The privatization of language, hyper transhumanism, and the market of memory, all must come if humanity wants to survive.