/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17916568]

I don't understand Peterson. He'll be shilling Nietzsche one moment, then Christianity the next.

[Anonymous No.17916574]

Deep down Nietzsche was Christian.

[Anonymous No.17916587]

>>17916568
Psychology is a sad fraud.

[Anonymous No.17916591]

>don't complain about anything unless your life is spotless, this doesn't apply to me of course since I can dish judgment on everything despite being a drug addict with problems

[Anonymous No.17916607]

>>17916568
My take is that he hates materialism. That's it. I'm down with that. He inspires manchildren to not be manchildren, so he's doing society a service.

[Anonymous No.17916614]

>>17916568
It's okay to just fixate on one single ideology if that's what makes you comfortable, after all, not everyone has the IQ required for philosophical eclecticism, where you take the best of every thinker and school you encounter.

[Anonymous No.17916635]

>>17916614
And how exactly does one reconcile conflicting views between opposing ideologies? Nietzsche and Christianity hold fundamentally opposing views.

[Anonymous No.17916802]

>>17916591
pseud detected
clean your room

[Anonymous No.17916819]

>>17916635
To say that either Nietzsche or Christianity is a single idea, such that they would be irreconcilable, is absurdly reductive on both sides.

[Anonymous No.17916821]

Peter Griffinson is a pseud if i've ever seen one, he seems to base his idea on the wikipedia articles of the thinkers he pretends to know

[Anonymous No.17916845]

>>17916819
The core of Nietzsche's philosophy is defining your own values, while Christians believe in objective values. Nietzsche and Christianity and irreconcilable. Some of Nietzsche's peripheral ideas may be compatible with Christianity, the central aspect is not.

[Anonymous No.17916856]

>>17916845
This need of yours to be reductive is exactly what I meant earlier about how not everyone has the capacity for eclecticism. That's fine. If you can't hold multiple ideas in your mind at the same time then just pick one thinker or ideology to tack on to. Nothing wrong with punching at your weight

[Anonymous No.17916870]

>>17916856
How exactly is what I said reductive? It sounds like you're just a midwit trying to cope with cognitive dissonance.

[Anonymous No.17916879]

>>17916607
I would say that benefit is evened out by all the edgelord right wing faggots he inspires to continue being edgelord right wing faggots

[Anonymous No.17916897]

>>17916870
What you're saying is Reductive because you're trying to Reduce two complexities, one of which is a person who wrote hundreds of pages of material, the other of which is a system unto itself with thousands and thousands of pages of material and hundreds of major contributors, down to a "core" on each side that, like a math equation, can cancel each other out. The reason I sound like a midwit to you is because you don't have the cognitive abilities to understand what I'm saying, but this is still worth pointing out for the benefit of our audience, I suppose.

[Anonymous No.17916902]

>>17916897
What you're saying is Reductive because you're trying to Reduce two complexities, one of which is a person who wrote hundreds of pages of material, the other of which is a system unto itself with thousands and thousands of pages of material and hundreds of major contributors, down to a "core" on each side that, like a math equation, can cancel each other out. The reason I sound like a midwit to you is because you don't have the cognitive abilities to understand what I'm saying, but this is still worth pointing out for the benefit of our audience, I suppose.

[Anonymous No.17916916]

>>17916568
it's just 21st century LARPing. people are so used to seeing life as meaningless and if you can't distract yourself it starts to consume you, so any reasonable weltenschaung becomes attractive.
notice how many new philosophical lifestyles have pervaded mainstream culture in the west in recent years: identity politics has led to people devoting themselves to their identity group, far right politics is bringing in those who don't follow that, and even though less people are religious overall those who remain are becoming more devout. meanwhile semi-fads like buddhism and wiccanism are going in and out of style.
there's no real reconciliation between nietzsche and Christianity (i think you can take some of his ideas into the fold of Christianity but not nearly enough to say that you've subsumed his philosophy) but there doesn't need to be when the goal is just to find any smidge of meaning.

[Anonymous No.17916918]

>>17916902
Now you're having an emotional reaction in the form of a meltdown, nice.

[Anonymous No.17916923]

>>17916879
Juden Peterstein is not right wing lol.

[Anonymous No.17916924]

>>17916918
>Now you're having an emotional reaction in the form of a meltdown, nice.

[Anonymous No.17916958]

>>17916923
I know, but try explaining that to the 50% or more of his audience who never got past his refusal to use preferred pronouns

[Anonymous No.17916969]

>>17916958
Which he didnt even really do, that was corporate media spin. He just opposed that law making it compulsory. I recall him saying when specifically asked in some interview that on an interpersonal level he would use someone's preferred pronouns. He just didnt want to be forced to be. Very milquetoast guy to paint as hitler.

[Anonymous No.17916982]

>>17916969
When did anyone in this thread paint him as hitler

[Anonymous No.17916994]

>>17916982
Huh?

[Anonymous No.17917033]

>>17916994
Sorry I misread your post and thought you were accusing me of painting him as hitler

[Anonymous No.17917143]

>>17916856
If you read his post you'd notice that he stated that there are peripheral ideas in the two that are compatible, but that the central aspect to them isn't. This is the opposite of a reductive analysis.

[Anonymous No.17917430]

>>17916845
>The core of Nietzsche's philosophy is defining your own values
I've defined my values as accepting or disinterested in contradiction. What now?

[Anonymous No.17917473]

>>17917143
Splitting the complex unity of each side into "peripheral" and "central" is, of course, reductive. Had you read further in the thread before replying, you would have seen this explained.

[Anonymous No.17917491]

>>17917473
What would not be reductive then? Because saying that Nietzsche is a Christian is very reductive.

[Anonymous No.17917501]

>>17916802
Oh ok, well then I plead exceptional circumstances too.

[Anonymous No.17917512]

>>17916897
>>17916856
No, he's right. You are a midwit. Nietzsche and Christianity are irreconcilable on multiple levels, even without any reductionism. Your argument would be valid if Nietzsche were not opposed to Christianity at almost every possible level (not just the "reduced" level that you're trying to assert).

[Anonymous No.17917542]

Canadians suck. Peterson is Canadian.

[Anonymous No.17917549]

>>17916568
Reported for rakeism.

[Anonymous No.17917580]

>>17916897
Let me give you an example. I could claim that nominalism and realism are compatible because they're both OK with the existence of sensible matter, even if one denies an abstract basis for formations of that same matter. That is a genuine similarity between the two positions, but that similarity is not inherent to the meaningful content of their assertions. Likewise, obviously there are a few small similarities between Christianity and Nietzschean thought, but the point is that none of them are meaningful similarities. For example, trying to assert a meaningful link between Christianity and Nietzsche because they both agree that values exist, whether subjectively or objectively, is just silly and grasping at straws.

[Anonymous No.17917599]

>>17917491
Who said that?
>>17917512
You're another dummy throwing around "Nietzsche" and "Christianity" as if they are single terms when they are actually multiplicities of ideas. Just refrain from posting man, you're too low IQ to really grasp what's being discussed here.
>>17917580
Doing a little better than these other cats, but still falling into the undergrad trap of trying to find refutations, cancel things out in broad strokes, etc. It's okay for you to just pick your team and be on it. Not everyone is cut out for eclecticism, and even for those who are, they sometimes just need time to grow into it. Everyone else is usually more comfortable being a fanatic of this school or that thinker because then they don't have to arrange their knowledge rhizomatically but can stick to a simple arborescent dogma.

[Anonymous No.17917623]

>>17916916
In all fairness Nietszche is not reconciled with liberalism, market capitalism, socialism, fascism or Christianity. Nietszche is explicitly at odds with the idea of a “common good” for man or alleviating the suffering of all men.

It’s like you guys haven’t even fucking read Nietszche. He’s not even difficult to understand imo and fairly accessible if you have an IQ over 90. If you can read Twitter posts, not be autistic, make inferences you can read Nietszche and understand what he’s saying. You stupid fucks who don’t read infuriate me.

[Anonymous No.17917787]

>>17917599
If you want to remain a Christian then so be it. Just know that combining Christian values with Nietzsche's philosophy makes you a Frankensteinian monster that is barely coherent.

[Anonymous No.17917807]

>>17917599
>not everyone is cut out for eclecticism
It's a troll.

[Anonymous No.17917825]

>>17916568
Don't care, raked

[Anonymous No.17917839]

Fiat does things like that to people.

[Anonymous No.17917840]

>>17916568

[Anonymous No.17917865]

>>17916568
Arguably the form of Christianity commonly practiced in America can be referred to as Nietzschian Christianity. You have people like Paul Ryan, who claims to be a Catholic, yet worships Ayn Rand. You have people like Mitt Romney, who claims to follow a Christian heresy, yet works to cannabalize companies and destroy lives for profit. It certainly deserves more study, but it's possible that this new unspoken Christianity could be simplisticially described as "God loves the little Ubermensch, and the Ubermensch shall inherit the earth."

[Anonymous No.17917889]

>>17916568
>Western civilization is grounded on a belief in the logos
>without that, we descend into nihilism and chaos
>that would be bad
>if Christianity were true and we could return to it, the problem would be resolved
>Christianity is true and we should return to it, qed

He's a damn dirty Pragmatist.

[Anonymous No.17917933]

>>17917865
>this new unspoken Christianity
Also known as just ‘being a hypocrite’

[Anonymous No.17917996]

>>17916568
(((Peterstein))) is a (((psychologist))) who knows little about philosophy or religion.

[Anonymous No.17918015]

>>17916587
your mum is a fraud
psychology and therapy are based and have helped me both mentally and with my business

[Anonymous No.17918697]

>>17917501
So long as you know how to fix it when you're ready ;)

[Anonymous No.17918703]

>>17918015
Cope harder bigger.
Literature is for niggers ,now go flip my burgers wagie.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OJc9vTfkteI

[Anonymous No.17918705]

>>17918015
Placebo

[Anonymous No.17918724]

>>17917599
It would be helpful if you were not a faggot and looked down upon others.
Start by saying why they are not irreconcilable and not sperg out saying
>I am smart lalalala you dum! Why you dumb? aaaaaaaahhhhh poopookakak
Say what you fcking mean.
have a conversation for fuck sake.
Learn how to speak with others

[Anonymous No.17919056]

>>17918724
Learn how to listen.

[Anonymous No.17919072]

>>17919056
Listen to what? He's just spouted garbage about how he's smarter than everyone else without actually giving any content.

[Anonymous No.17919116]

>>17916568
Its fine to listen to, even adopt, a junky pseud’s theories
If you take his “advice” youre as retarded than he is and deserve what you get.

[Anonymous No.17919123]

>>17917501
Being a tranny is exceptionally retarded, I agree

[Anonymous No.17919137]

>>17916568
Nietzsche would say that you shouldn't idealize his philosophy. And that jumping from one philosophy to the next isn't a sign of weakness

[Anonymous No.17919150]

>>17919072
Nah.

[Anonymous No.17919164]

>>17916568
Peterson has a philosophy undergrad’s understanding of Nietzsche. He actually thought reading the communist manifesto the night before a debate on Marxism would sufficiently prepare him to refute it.

[Anonymous No.17919168]

>>17916568
Ffs can we stop with Jordan Peterson

[Anonymous No.17919190]

>>17916879
Why would anyone give a fuck about political views? As long as men create cohesive family structures, are honorable, and maintain healthy masculinity why should I care what his opinion is on immigration?

[Anonymous No.17919210]

>>17916568
In his insane struggle to find meaning he just adopts anything that can give meaning to life, be it Christianity or Nietzsche.
Kinda like how right wingers adopt Spengler purely for his pessimism, not because they find the study of his historic theory that neither describes the past nor predicts the future accurately particularily compelling.

[Anonymous No.17919230]

>>17916568
The amount of seething from lefties this man causes is staggering, they make a thread about him everyday. How do you get to live in all their collective heads rent free?

[Anonymous No.17919401]

alright petersonfag here. what do i read then?

[Anonymous No.17919432]

Have you watched or read anything he's ever said? Peterson is one of those rare individuals who will give credit where it's due. Nietchee brings out the problem our existence and Christianity, as a tradition, gives guidance out of it. You know, chaos and order.

[Anonymous No.17919691]

>>17916568
>I don't understand Peterson
That is very, very sad. It's not rocket science

[Anonymous No.17919739]

>>17916607
He inspires a certain type of manchild to be another type of manchild

[Anonymous No.17919757]

>>17916802
Lmao, the ultimate cope

[Anonymous No.17919796]

I love how he is a midwit detector.
If someone likes him, I know what to expect from their midwit commonsense "hot takes" (retarded opinions).

[Anonymous No.17919815]

>>17919164
I rewatched that debate and cringed even harder at thst remark. Also Slavoj succinctly told him "if you really read Marx closely, not just the manifesto", which is the nicest way of saying "you haven't read Marx you fucking faggot".

[Anonymous No.17919852]

>>17916568
>>17916574
not even that deep down, he just was

OP is an actual stupid faggot, stop making Nietzsche threads if you don't understand his fucking point idiot.

[Anonymous No.17919875]

>>17919852
/leftypol/ has lowered the IQ of this board significantly

[Anonymous No.17919876]

>>17919150
Yes.

[Anonymous No.17919900]

>>17919796
I know more midwits who are vehemently opposed to him and will go out of their way to bring up Snopes articles on why Peterson is wrong about x/y/z whenever he's mentioned.

[Anonymous No.17919927]

>>17919852
He was a Christian up until he read Schopenhauer. After that, he wasn't.

[Anonymous No.17919949]

>>17919900
He is a midwit himself, and he doesn’t understand postmodernism. See below
https://youtu.be/cU1LhcEh8Ms

[Anonymous No.17919960]

>>17919949
I know, but what I was saying is that people like yourself are even midwittier than him. You just did exactly what I mentioned in my post.

[Anonymous No.17919963]

>>17916802
>OY VEY IT'S DIFFERENT FOR ME
This is why everyone hates Americans

[Anonymous No.17919967]

>>17919949
cope

[Anonymous No.17919973]

>>17919963
>Americans
Americans chads really do live in leaftoids head rent free

[Anonymous No.17919987]

>>17919967
Clean your room bucko

[Anonymous No.17919989]

>>17919949
>>17919900
>>17919960
This exchange is kinda funny, yeah.

[Anonymous No.17919990]

>>17919987
have sex

[Anonymous No.17919991]

>>17916607
I dont get what materialism has to do with manchildren

[Anonymous No.17919993]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeL-Fn0V8iU

[Anonymous No.17920007]

>>17916856
>hold multiple ideas in your mind at the same time
>just believe contradicting ideas at the same time bro! I swear you won’t get mental illness from cognitive dissonance! what are you? a brainlet?

[Anonymous No.17920025]

>>17916879
Edgelords hate Peterson

[Anonymous No.17920027]

Why would anyone read Peterson when they can just read paglia instead

[Anonymous No.17920032]

>>17918015
>helped me
Abolish the nafs, as our Prophet Muhammad S.A.W commands
>my business
Bugman

[Anonymous No.17920051]

>>17920007
You're gonna have a meltdown when and if you ever get to Hegel.

[Anonymous No.17920058]

>>17920032
>Abolish the nafs
what do you mean by that my akh?

[Anonymous No.17920059]

>>17919949
FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME he understand it all too well, postmodernist just deny the its logical conclusion

[Anonymous No.17920085]

Peterson is like a distilled version of what happens when the adherents of specific ideology can't cope with the ideology no longer being useful, they show up and tell you that you are in reality violating some time-tested religious truth by abandoning it, but in reality nothing happens.

[Anonymous No.17920087]

>>17920059
Nah

[Anonymous No.17920092]

>>17920032
>Bugman
>does Middle Eastern yoga 5 times a day for the promise of endless sex with transparent skinned virgins and rivers of milk

[Anonymous No.17920109]

>>17919739
bugman detected

[Anonymous No.17920305]

>>17916568
Because hes ab obscurantist pseudophilosopher and you should feel bad for taking him seriously

[Anonymous No.17920338]

He's a midwit who's totally out of his depth. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Anonymous No.17920389]

>>17919993
KEK

[Anonymous No.17920793]

>>17919949
>he doesn’t understand postmodernism

This is the typical midwit complaint. Just bringing it up exposes you as a completely brainless leftist. I guarantee you watch Hasan Piker.

[Anonymous No.17921813]

>>17916574
>>17919852
based
>>17919927
wrong, read "A God Torn to Pieces: The Nietzsche Case" by Giuseppe Fornari, or "Dionysus versus the Crucified" by René Girard, or even Jung's seminar on his Thus Spoke Zarathustra. Nietzsche becomes especially Christian in the last 15 years of his life.

[Anonymous No.17921840]

>>17916568
Plenty of reactionary catholics appreciate nietzsche. Someone like Voltaire is a lot more hated by them than Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.17921846]

Nietzsche hated atheism with more passion than he did Christianity

[Anonymous No.17921849]

>>17916568
>psychologist
Imposter Syndrome meets intellectual fraud as self-help cult in therapeutic state litanies

[Anonymous No.17921850]

>>17921813
>Nietzsche becomes especially Christian in the last 15 years of his life.
Define Christian.

[Anonymous No.17921923]

>>17921850
Consider these words from Jung:

> That an atheist is particularly concerned with God is not understood with us because we are still unspeakably barbarous in that respect, but the East is a bit more differentiated in such matters. Thev have the sav- / ing that a man who loves God needs seven rebirths in order to be redeemed or to reach l\irvana, but a man who hates God needs only three. And why? Because a man who hates God will think of him much oftener than a man" ho loves God. So the atheist hates God, but he is in a way a better Christian than the man who loves him; l\'ietzsche is a better Christian and far more moral than the Christians before and after him. You see that explains a great deal of Zarathustra, which is a highly moral book. If anybody should try to live that teaching, he would have astonishing experiences. He would certainly feel himself to be a better Christian than all those before him.

and

> The Christian symbol of Christ carrying the cross means that he carries his own body, his own corpse. We have here a sort of Christian symbolism, therefore. Zarathustra carries his own humanity, his human body, Nietzsche, as the rope-dancer who has been killed, a kind of paraphrase of the Christian sacrifice. As I have said before, Nietzsche was in a secret way more Christian than anyone would expect.

> Nietzsche burns up the lower man, the anatomical or physiological man, and he becomes a spirit. I have often said the he was plus papal que le Pape, more Christian than a Christian; one could call him the last real Christian. He is led straight back through the identification with the spirit and he doesn't realize it.

> And now, in the moment when the dogmatic ideas are discarded, they suddenly reappear in a psychological attitude. That is the tragedy of our time. Whatever was a creed in the Middle Ages, whatever ideal people kept before their eyes, was lost, and it is now in the flesh. So we see a whole nation really becoming Christian in a way, but without the idea of Christianity-with even an anti-Christian idea. But the idea that everybody must now be a sacrifice is essentially Christian. Never mind all the things you miss and that life is very hard anyway: everybody must sacrifice himself. That is plus papal que le pape, more Christian than ever before. We know of no time in history when a pope or a bishop would have educated his nation as Germany is now being educated under a so-called anti-Christian rule; it is much worse than it has ever been, without mercy, without redemption, without explanation. It is done in the name ofthe state, but it is a thoroughly Christian attitude. Now that is Nietzsche's logic, and that has come off as a political or sociological condition. In these paragraphs we have the same kind of thought, the same development. The Christian imagery is abolished, yet the psychological fact of Christianity remains.

[Anonymous No.17921944]

>>17921850
>>17921923
and consider
- the fact that Nietzsche continued to praise Christ, as well as Dostoevsky (Christians without ressentiment) throughout his life
- the fact that Nietzsche went mad around the same time he equated Dionysos and Christ (see Fornari and Girard for this)
- Heidegger calling Nietzsche the last Platonist/last Metaphysician (while Nietzsche considered Christianity to be Platonism for the people)
- his femme fatale Lou Andreas-Salomé called him a "christian mystic," read her psychoanalysis of him.
- reread Gay Science §125 in this light
- look into his family-dynamic, what was his relation to his father, who was a preacher
- read his fragments / nachgelasse

[Anonymous No.17922243]

>>17921923
>>17921944
Thanks for sharing. That's an interesting take and I agree with most of it, especially the last paragraph by Jung. That is pretty much who Nietzsche's "good Europeans" were, beings in which the ideals of the Christian Middle Ages have become psychologically perfected and physically embodied, and he was aware of that too, as he talks about it in Genealogy of Morals and, for example, you can see it in this critique from Twilight of the Idols:

>When the English actually believe that they know "intuitively" what is good and evil, when they therefore suppose that they no longer require Christianity as the guarantee of morality, we merely witness the effects of the dominion of the Christian value judgment and an expression of the strength and depth of this dominion: such that the origin of English morality has been forgotten, such that the very conditional character of its right to existence is no longer felt. For the English, morality is not yet a problem.

This is also why he makes it a point in his later books to establish new ideals that are both anti-Christian (such as the will to power) and post-Christian (such as the revaluation of good and evil). He sees what the efforts of the Middle Ages created, what strengths they created (e.g., modern science) and also what weaknesses they created (e.g., the morbid gravitation towards comfort). He also believes in evolution, so he sees two major possible outcomes based on these strengths and weaknesses, the latter leading to the "last men" who will force evolution to a standstill in the service of their own comfort, which disgusted him.

[Anonymous No.17922303]

>>17919991
Manchildren tend to be spiritually stagnant and not strive for any higher meaning. Instead gaming their life away and complaining that women, the system etc. are against them

[Anonymous No.17922343]

>>17921944
None of this makes his Christian. He certainly respect for Jesus Christ, but now you are being reductive of what it means to be a Christian.

[Anonymous No.17922359]

>>17922343
What does it mean to be a Christian?

[Anonymous No.17922377]

>>17922343
>but now you are being reductive of what it means to be a Christian
holy self awareness, anon

[Anonymous No.17922379]

>>17922303
To be fair, there are almost just as many spiritually barren women today as there are men. Not all of these so-called manchildren are self-made or self-perpetuated. Society as a whole has a lot of problems.

[Anonymous No.17922400]

If anything, picking and choosing parts of different ways of thinking without an overarching coherence between them makes him very much a part of the postmodern cultural logic he criticises (sometimes validly).