Michel Foucault: PEDOPHILE SUPERSTAR

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Michel Foucault: PEDOPHILE SUPERSTAR Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 12:17:08 2021 No.17788539 [Reply] [Original]

Early on in History of Sexuality, Foucault describes an incident between an adult male farm worker and a prepubescent girl named Jouy, wherein Jouy plays a game of "curdled milk" with the farmhand, aka, she jerks him off to completion. Foucault then remarks that she was probably not negatively affected by this, and probably enjoyed or gained from the experience, and that the response to it by her village (punishing the farmhand) is an example of western sexual neurosis.
Why does the entire modern left worship the ideology built in part by this pedophile apologist? (deconstructionism)

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:19:09 2021 No.17788555 >>17788539 how are people surprised about this? french fags have always been doing this and gays do it tenfold. The beats were also outed as pedos

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 12:20:45 2021 No.17788566 >>17788555 someone on another board thought it was a huge revelation that one of Foucault's old buddies recently came out as a pedophile, but I was just like homie, Foucault admitted that shit in his own books.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:22:08 2021 No.17788577 Because some of the things he wrote are useful to what 'the left' wants. This is really not worth a thread.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:25:17 2021 No.17788607

>>17788539
Look I'm not a fan of Foucault, but you haven't even read the damn book. The farmhand was mentally disabled, and by all accounts not some sort of sex predator. There are valid reasons to dislike the man, but I wish you people would actually critique his ideas.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:26:12 2021 No.17788615

>>17788539
He's right in the sense that not all experiences of that sort are traumatizing and often times "victims" don't think of themselves as victims at all until other people push that identity onto them.

Sex between adults and children should still be illegal tho. The utilitarian consequences of the opposite would be too much.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:29:56 2021 No.17788638

>>17788539
>entire modern left
Nah, there's always been a very small undercurrent of dislike for Foucault on the left, I went to a self-described "People's University" and was able to find a small group of teachers that hated him and I clung to them as much as I could.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:31:25 2021 No.17788647 >>17788539 Prove him wrong without just screeching and name-calling

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:34:00 2021 No.17788671 OBSESSED

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 12:34:22 2021 No.17788675 >>17788607 I have read the book, its how I knew about the passage without directly quoting it. >disagrees >YOU HAVENT EVEN READ THE BOOK didn't realize I was on reddit.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 12:35:25 2021 No.17788688 >>17788607 and the point isn't about the farmhand directly, its about Foucault dismissing the act as "no big deal" Reading comprehension this poor on a "literature" forum I really am on reddit

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:36:09 2021 No.17788693 File: 1.08 MB, 600x935, 62d7toc6udn51.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17788539 > Prepubescent french slut > Literally called Jouy ("Cumming") ...

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:38:24 2021 No.17788707 >>17788688 Explain why it's a big deal without screeching about how your premise should be blindly accepted

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:41:50 2021 No.17788732 >>17788675 >>17788688 What you posted above demonstrates no understanding of the text. Feel free to redeem yourself. If you really read the book then it should be easy for you to refute him.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 12:42:51 2021 No.17788738

>>17788707
because regardless of the biological facts surrounding fertility, there is a huge gap between an adult's psychological development and a young teenager's, and this creates such a chasm that abuse is pretty much inevitable.
Beyond that, children aren't just "individuals," they are the children of parents who care about their well-being. An adult beginning a sexual relationship with a teenager is taking them out of their developmental course and into something that their hormone-addled brains are not equipped to emotionally handle, and it has a high probability of lowering their prospects.
All in all, the potential consequences for the children have such a high probability toward the negative, that its immoral to allow it.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 12:44:03 2021 No.17788746

>>17788732
No, you don't get to argue that way. Explain how it demonstrates "no understanding of the text" (paraphrased the text directly). Then I will be happy to clarify. I read the text and paraphrased it, I'm not responding to petulant "b-b-but you didn't read it"

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:45:16 2021 No.17788756

>>17788688
On one hand he is probably correct. The public overreaction to the event itself may contribute more to the child's trauma than the act itself. To speak from personal experience, I got diddled with as a (very young) kid, didn't realize at all what the fuck was happening until later on, and when I did, since I knew my dad would bury the guy in the yard and didn't want shit to happen and anyways, I wasn;'t traumatized, I decided not to speak to anyone about it.
On the other hand, this is a specific event, that happened in a specific way, and I have no way to know if that fucker didn't escalate his predations afterwards. Other kids get diddled with and get buried afterwards. Some are fucked in the head forever because of it. Saying "in this case the trauma would only come from the public condemnation" can only be true afterwards, when you have all facts. A prohibition preventing these things to happens isn't a bad thing, because it also stop worst things to happen, and because if you are a rational adult you should manage to control your sexual urges enough so that you can find an appropriate way to satisfy them.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 12:47:16 2021 No.17788771

>>17788756
I disagree that this was his point though. I read the passage, I'm struggling to find it in full online for free; but, I remember that Foucault does make the point you're making, which is that society is so eager to "save" children's innocence that it exaggerates incidents like this, which is probably true; but he then goes on to further claim that adult-to-prepubescent sexual relationships really just aren't a big deal or something that should be persecuted.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:49:17 2021 No.17788784

>>17788738
>there is a huge gap between an adult's psychological development and a young teenager's,
Not terribly different from dating a slag with 40 IQ points fewer than you. If you are like me at 140 that means even average people comes off as somewhere between children and a retriever.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 12:50:34 2021 No.17788788

>>17788784
yeah it is probably on par with dating someone who is mentally retarded compared to you.
The potential for abuse in such an arrangement is similar, but is not as able to be practically legislated. You can pretty easily, practically legislate against the abuse that would happen with kids.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:53:03 2021 No.17788802

>>17788738
Does age = intelligence/wisdom? Why is abuse inevitable? If someone with a 140 IQ dates a person with an IQ of 90 is that automatically an abusive relationship?
Are parents slave owners and are children mere objects that have no autonomy? Does every parent know what is best for every child? If that is the natural development of their body how are they being taken out of their natural development? Wouldn't chastity at an age of peak hormonal influence be the aberration and not vice versa? Why are they unable to emotionally handle it? What is so strange and abnormal about sex (the most normal thing on the planet) that it shatters the mind?
What consequences? Most of these assertions are made with the idea in mind that they are incontrovertible truth and read as religious rhetoric.
What is the age, then, that one should be allowed to engage in sex? Is everyone the same? Is there some magic moment that you are suddenly capable?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:54:37 2021 No.17788815

>>17788771
If all his point is is "it isn't a big deal", Jesus fucking Christ, that's fucking dumb.
I always hated the man because I thought I could feel the sadomasochistic homosexuality sticking to my fingers from the page and I often thought early on, maybe I'm just really deeply homophobic, lol.
Thing is too, I didn't get a choice to get diddled with as a kid. I compartmentalized it well, and usually I felt more sadness and pity for the dude than anger, but I probably would have prefered not to be presented with that whole experience either.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:57:15 2021 No.17788827

>>17788802
The relationship isn't that simple, children can be wily and manipulative as hell, but sexuality isn't something they've integrated in their thought process, so they don't account it at all in their calculations. As such, an adult, often practically less "cunning" than a child, will easily manipulate the child because he values things that doesn't exist for the child, and knows what the child values.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:58:14 2021 No.17788839 >>17788756 >I wasn;'t traumatized >posted to 4channel dot org Anon, I...

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:59:18 2021 No.17788848 >>17788693 is that Valentina Nappi?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 12:59:20 2021 No.17788850

If adult does something sexual to a kid (and its not physically harmful) its literally just physical objects interacting, since the kid does not understand the significance of it, so it cant be traumatic. The meaning comes from outside of the situation. And the predominant meaning was created and pushed for by feminists, where the act is automatically seen as bad and the child is victimized in all cases. Ergo trauma is symbolic construct and not inherent property of the hand touching pussay or whatever. Dunno how blind are people to this fact.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:01:41 2021 No.17788871

>>17788539
I think its to try and say that modern sexual values are arbitrary in the sense that you can have a sexuality before you're 18. In my country you're legally allowed to have sex when youre 15, one of my friends were 13 when he had sex the first time (with another 13 year old). So I can see Foucault's point, but the thing is when these sexual encounters become between adults and children that it becomes problematic as these adults do not consider children their equal, it is much more like the child is an object of desire that the adult manipulates. This is like in adults, only I don't think a child is mentally capable enough, to counteract or manipulate back in a sophisticated way. Also there is a large physical aspect being ignored, that is the adult can physically overcome the child which plays into their interaction as well, it is much more threatening to disagree with a large man twice or thrice your own size, than some child your own age. So yeah, Foucault was a product of his time when the idea of children developing their sexual identity on their own was new and fascinating, but it led to some hasted conclusions and theories that took it a step too far. His criticism of modern sexual morals isn't without merit though.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:01:54 2021 No.17788872

>>17788802
I'd say the age of consent should match up with brain maturization cycles. Somewhere between 16-21
Not every parent knows what is best for every child; but there is no way that the State knows what is best for EVERY child, and the probability that an adult who is looking upon the child with sexually hungry eyes has better intentions for them than their parents is nil.
The traumatic consequences of sexual abuse, especially when this occurs in the sexually undeveloped, is extremely well-documented. I would recommend opening your eyes.
A sexual relationship is a chemically complex phenomenon. The chemicals involved impair judgement. A child with little experience in this state of mind, is a ripe target for an abusive, older person with more experience.
Basically, everything you wrote is retarded to anyone with
>common sense
>basic psychological knowledge
>genuine love for children
So, even though it can all be argued against rationally (as above), just know that it doesn't really matter how you *theoretically* feel about it; practically, if you try to throw out these "skeptical questions" out to 90% of the public, especially those with children; they will beat your ass and threaten your life rather than take the fucking risk.
All of you midwits are a fucking liability. Just intelligent enough to be manipulated using the most effortless degenerate shit I've ever seen. I hate you, I mean it.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:04:25 2021 No.17788890
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>>17788839
Nah I'm good. Shit happened 30 years ago, the dude was already old, he might be dead now, so in the end I win.
Thanks for the concern though, fren.
>>17788848
Victoria Dawn Justice

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:08:06 2021 No.17788915

>>17788871
>Foucault was a product of his time when the idea of children developing their sexual identity on their own was new and fascinating
Freud wrote about infantile sexuality half a century ago and Foucault knew this, so it was not a novel thing. His point was not so much to throw away all of the cultural restrictions to free natural sexuality, but to investigate how discourses limit our ideas about what sexuality is in the first place

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:09:43 2021 No.17788929 >>17788872 >but there is no way that the State knows what is best for EVERY child That's kinda Foucault's point though...

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:09:53 2021 No.17788931

>>17788539
>Foucault then remarks that she was probably not negatively affected by this, and probably enjoyed or gained from the experience, and that the response to it by her village (punishing the farmhand) is an example of western sexual neurosis.
Is he wrong? Where is the evidence that incidents like this are harmful? The Ben Shapiro crew always wants to pass off this shit off as some sort of modern lefty degeneracy, completely ignoring the fact that pederasty is a noble tradition that literally predates humanity. If it was really that toxic, how did it (or we) manage to stick around for so long?

This is as silly as the people running around screeching "but you can't just go out in the sun for 10 minutes and let its DEADLY RADIOACTIVE RAYS touch you like that! You have to rub these modern chemicals into your skin that have never actually been tested with any amount of scientific rigor or you'll DIE of CANCER!" Really? Are you fucking serious? We evolved on this planet over the course of hundreds of thousands of years and somehow aren't prepared to face the sun that rises every single day?

I'm not saying that everyone should just start spending all day directly out in the sun, the same way that I'm not saying everyone should go out and fuck the nearest child. What I'm saying is that all of the hysterics about solar radiation and pedophilia are unfounded, and actively harmful as the results are spooky vampire people who wear SPF10,000 indoors, and 15 year olds sent to prison for "distributing child pornography" after sending a dick pic to a classmate.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:10:46 2021 No.17788941

>>17788915
Foucault is not a bad intellectual per se. Out of all the deconstructionist trash, I like him the most, because I see him as the last politically animated.
This pedophile apologia shit disgusts me, but all of his books including History of Sexuality, are full of insight. He seemed to have no goal beyond inquiry and I can always respect that.
The problem with these purist thinkers, though, is they often dwell into uncanny valley on subjects in the interest of thought-experimentation, comfortable in the knowledge that they won't ever act on these things.
But, they do write about them...and then the more impressionable act upon them.
Its something I see often. High IQ people can handle uncanny valley, but the public cannot.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:11:27 2021 No.17788950

>>17788872
Children are required to participate in many things they don't understand. Church, the polar opposite, for example is indecipherable to a child. Why is sex different?
>>17788872
What if the child wants the adult too? What if they are at an age of hormonal maturity that they want to have sex, and it is not just the adult looking with 'hungry eyes' the teenager is looking back with the same eyes? Parents want their kids studying and being good at all times, but has anyone ever been completely obedient of their parents, and would being 100% obedient to your parents have good results? Or would the child be a slave to their parents?
Rape can be very traumatizing, when it is a forced act of penetration on a completely unwilling person, of course that is traumatizing, but what of willing participation? Is some of this trauma not from the reaction of the people surrounding the situation?
Are everyone's chemicals not impaired then by sexual desire? Why is it any different, and once again, if the desire is there, where is the harm?
>Just intelligent enough to be manipulated
>hey will beat your ass and threaten your life rather than take the fucking risk
Once again, you're stating your case as if it's religious truth and if I don't completely agree with you I'm Satan, but somehow I'm the one who's being manipulated/brainwashed?
Come on now.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:11:53 2021 No.17788952

>>17788915
I see your point and you're right. I was thinking more in the way of sexual liberation happening in for example the USA and Europe. But you're right, Freud was already developing these concepts and I agree on your second point as well, I don't know enough about Foucault to disagree, but I heard that is sort of the point he was trying to make.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:13:16 2021 No.17788962

>>17788931
pederasty is about as noble a tradition as "wives-as-property" was. You historical fetishists are so fucking retarded man. Go look again at institutionalized pederasty again genius, this "noble tradition" lmao. The boys in question were typically pressured the entire time and then the noble privileged faggots molesting them just called the whole thing a glorious privilege because of course, getting molested by such an important person had to be a privilege.
The boys probably didn't like it since they were basically submissive women in that role, but not much of that is written because nobody fucking cared.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:14:09 2021 No.17788969

>>17788950
>Children are required to participate in many things they don't understand. Church, the polar opposite, for example is indecipherable to a child. Why is sex different?

Yes, which is why you probably shouldn't take your kid to a voodoo chicken head ripping festival or some shit.
Kids don't get the meaning but they also don't get scared to death if the ritual involves eating some bread and getting sprinkled with water.
Circumcision on the other hand...

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:14:11 2021 No.17788971 >>17788941 He was a bit more than your average "apologist" - he was a committed pedophile, really raping real children.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:15:00 2021 No.17788984

>>17788950
a whataboutism regarding church isn't much of an argument here. I never defended indoctrinating children at birth through church practices

As for all of this:
>What if the child wants the adult too? What if they are at an age of hormonal maturity that they want to have sex, and it is not just the adult looking with 'hungry eyes' the teenager is looking back with the same eyes? Parents want their kids studying and being good at all times, but has anyone ever been completely obedient of their parents, and would being 100% obedient to your parents have good results? Or would the child be a slave to their parents?
Rape can be very traumatizing, when it is a forced act of penetration on a completely unwilling person, of course that is traumatizing, but what of willing participation? Is some of this trauma not from the reaction of the people surrounding the situation?
Are everyone's chemicals not impaired then by sexual desire? Why is it any different, and once again, if the desire is there, where is the harm?
>Just intelligent enough to be manipulated
>hey will beat your ass and threaten your life rather than take the fucking risk
Once again, you're stating your case as if it's religious truth and if I don't completely agree with you I'm Satan, but somehow I'm the one who's being manipulated/brainwashed?
Come on now.

All I can really say to any of that is that you should kill yourself.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:16:06 2021 No.17788999

>>17788890
I have never told anyone this in my life ever, but my grandmother stroked my penis when I was kinda little, like between 6-8 I think, maybe younger I can't remember.. Its a bit weird to me and I don't really know what to do, I don't think it was traumatizing, but I can't help wonder if it has done something to me...
Oh well, it wasn't really in a complete sexual way I gueds, just her pointing finger going up and down my little erect peepee and she said she would rather I turn around so she could stroke my bum instead..
Over all I don't even think of it as sexual, just strange really. No idea why I am telling you this, guess I just kept it inside all my life and felt like sharing it with someone.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:16:25 2021 No.17789000

>>17788971
I've never seen any proof of this, but many of his friends were, and I know he at least supported NAMBLA from a distance. I think that was to stick up for Ginsberg, though.
Still, the star-studded cast of pedos he hung around with doesn't bode well for him here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:16:51 2021 No.17789003 File: 15 KB, 300x300, 1614954314199.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Oscar Wilde, Andre Gide, William Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg, the prophet Muhammad, most of the ten disciples and Walt Whitman were all paedophiles. It was a different time

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:17:46 2021 No.17789014 >>17788999 >>17789000 checked and acknowledged

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:17:51 2021 No.17789016 >>17789003 none of those people are admirable "different time" my ass.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:20:58 2021 No.17789037

>ISIS literally train children to chop off heads of people and torture them in the name of Allah and they do it easily, no traumatic flashbacks
>a man touches pp of a child and he HAS to be traumatized for life and its worse that murder
twitter victimization kind of logic

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:21:17 2021 No.17789041

>>17788984
Why were age of consent laws implemented and why are they set at the age they are? What age is the age of consent around the world? Why have you settled on the number 16? Does it have anything to do with where you're from? Have you been brainwashed into adopting current cultural dogma? How can you know something with certainty if you refuse to even question it?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:25:42 2021 No.17789068

>>17788962
Where's your evidence? You're projecting modern sensibilities into people who lived thousands of years ago. One of the main findings of the Rind report was that even in studies that claimed to have found clear and pervasive evidence that sexual interactions between adults and children always result in psychological harm, more men who had sexual experiences with adults as boys actually thought that being "abused" actually made their life better than thought it resulted in lasting harm. And if that's true today, when these things happen in secrecy and the children is question are often threatened in some way to ensure their silence, what does that say about a time when pederasty was generally accepted, but being a selfish lover was not?

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:28:36 2021 No.17789089

>>17789037
use that logic to justify a sexual attraction to children on your part and let me know that works out for you.
People say a lot of shit in theory, that they refrain from in practice; because they intuitively know that their theory is wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:29:38 2021 No.17789096 >>17788688 >I really am on reddit Who's gonna fill this newfag in?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:31:21 2021 No.17789107

>>17788539
>Why does the entire modern left worship the ideology built in part by this pedophile apologist?
Marxism-Leninism and milquetoast Social Democracy are the two largest (by far) tendencies of the modern left, neither endorse Foucault. Unless you’re just thinking about hyper online 20-something radlibs that make up less than 1% of the American population. Stupid amero-centric anglo.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:31:32 2021 No.17789109

>>17789089
>intuitively know
How long ago do you think age of consent laws were invented? If we are going on intuition, is it not the people who were going by instinct who were going on intuition rather than the modern people who made these laws up for reasons unrelated to the ones you claim?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:31:46 2021 No.17789112 >>17788999 You might want to read The Trauma Myth and/or Harmful to Minors for a bit of perspective on how others in similar situations reacted to those events. At the end of the day though, if it's not a big deal to you, then it's not a big deal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:33:07 2021 No.17789124 File: 32 KB, 641x450, 1586132772287.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17789037 >child soldiers are psychologically healthy, please let me fuck 8 year old boys >>17789107 He's literally the most cited person in academia.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:33:47 2021 No.17789129 >>17789124 >in academia Doesnt contradict my point at all lmao

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:34:10 2021 No.17789131

>>17789041
I am not advocating for sixteen, I already said between 16-21 and laid out my reasoning earlier in the thread.

>>17789068
there are textual evidences in Greek literature that pederasty was not universally accepted in private, even if it was enforced as social practice; because Greece was a rigid patriarchy where landed classes of men and skilled craftsmen were granted a lion's share of the autonomy and rights. Pederast boys were often apprentices who got molested as part of their craftsmanship tutelage or were basically preyed upon by aristocrats.
But even still: ancient historical texts are largely written by the privileged classes in those societies, rarely if ever do you hear the unconstrained voices of the slaves or the oppressed. To assume that this silence was indicative of them enjoying it, is retarded and arrogant.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:35:35 2021 No.17789138 >>17789107 you believe that ideological die-hards are a bigger constituency than modern nu-left kiddos, and you're using this belief to label me retarded? Literally just look out into the world for five minutes holy fuck man

>>	hungryman !!5BI0oSV9uvS Mon Mar 15 13:36:41 2021 No.17789150 >>17788555 Outed?

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:36:43 2021 No.17789151

>>17789124
that's the thing; deep down we know what separates the wheat from the chaff on this issue.
One side thinks its unequivocally wrong to take advantage of a child for selfish sexual gain, and the other doesn't.
Who's even buying this shit? Let's just start making these people afraid again.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:36:53 2021 No.17789153

>>17789089
no, my theory is right. Children to get victimized, but it happens because of our predominant narrative. If we lived in ancient Greece and sexual relations were explained as a part of education, then it would not be traumatic, or would be for different reasons. Trauma is symbolically determined and you talk like it depends on some psychological development or on the bad act itself which is common sensical, but untrue.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:37:45 2021 No.17789157

>>17789131
>I'd say the age of consent should match up with brain maturization cycles
So why that age? What happens at 16 that magically makes someone ready for sex? Why is it that sex hormones kick in at a much younger age if we aren't ready for it? Are you smarter than the billions of years of evolution that went into creating your hormonal clock?
>>17789151
You are such a dumb normie and your ancestors are all collectively laughing at you.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:37:48 2021 No.17789158

>>17788539
Michael Jones called his ass out and everyone like him. More than half of philosophy is rationalization of desire
>Why does the entire modern left worship the ideology built in part by this pedophile apologist?
Because they're freaks too its as simple as that. They'll grasp any academic framework that'll let them project their fetishes onto children or validate their perversion

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:37:58 2021 No.17789161 >>17789112 The Trauma myth, interesting. Thanks for the rec anon, will look into this and try to get perspectives on it. Would you say one of the books is better than the other?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:38:35 2021 No.17789164

>>17788539
A prepubescent girl may desire and even 'enjoy' the act in the moment but her innocence will be prematurely interrupted, causing trauma in the process. The little girl does not understand this, but the adult man does, hence his responsibility.
Degenerate coomers such as Focault refuse to admit that 'feels good' =/= is good. Plenty of things that feel good lead to permanent damage, as he himself found out in the flesh when he contracted HIV. It's like the obese woman who insists she eats just like everybody else, while her very body bears testimony of the truth.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:38:56 2021 No.17789167 >>17789109 Age of consent laws have existed since the 1200s in the West at least, and were originally drafted specifically to protect children from unwanted sexual advances, typically young girls from adult men.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:39:25 2021 No.17789170 File: 236 KB, 750x1334, 1596956578873.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:40:07 2021 No.17789177 >>17789164 we all understand this, the one's who pretend not to, speak in a different language and its the only one they understand.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:40:42 2021 No.17789180 >>17789164 What is innocence?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:40:42 2021 No.17789181 >>17788850 Take it easy atom clump.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:40:51 2021 No.17789182 >>17789161 I'm not that anon, but every one should read The Trauma Myth before talking about sex being traumatic for children

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:41:12 2021 No.17789185

>>17789157
it doesn't matter when their hormones start kicking in, we estimate an age bound that approximately measures when someone is at their capacity to make their own decisions safely and of their own accord (not being gaslit or manipulated by older people like yourself). the only people interested in changing that are the people who want to fuck children i.e. you faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:41:32 2021 No.17789187 >>17789167 and what age did they pick and why? What was the punishment and how strictly enforced were these laws?

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:41:38 2021 No.17789189 >>17789180 the opposite of being a pedophilia apologist

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:42:33 2021 No.17789192 >>17789181 tell me how different a man touching pp is from a man touching a childs ear. There is only difference if you suppose genitals are somehow ontolgically different from the other parts of the body.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:42:40 2021 No.17789193 >>17789187 they picked the age of 12 back then that law appears to have been rather seriously enforced

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:43:05 2021 No.17789194 >>17789180 The most beautiful thing is this horrible world.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:43:17 2021 No.17789197

>>17789131
Once again, the evidence right now, at this moment, is that these types of relationships are more likely to be rated as beneficial than as causing lasting harm, *by the "victims" themselves*. And that's despite confounding the results by conflating willing relationships and violent rape.

One thing I want to make very clear here is that exactly *no one* here is advocating for rape. All we're saying is that the criteria for throwing someone in prison forever should be changed from a child saying "he touched me," to a child saying "he touched me and I didn't like it."

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:43:56 2021 No.17789200

>>17789192
they literally are. they serve a different biological function. that is a direct ontological difference. you don't actually understand philosophy and just bastardize its concepts to buttress your long decided-upon conclusion of "I should be allowed to do the things that society wants to kill or jail me for doing."
Kill. Your. Self

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:45:01 2021 No.17789207

>>17789197
wow a child who was psychologically traumatized by an adult sex partners who is now serving a surrogate parent/authority figure role in the mind of the child, doesn't think that the relationship was harmful. case fucking clossseeeeddd

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:46:02 2021 No.17789214 >>17789200 >they serve a different biological function the act is traumatic, because the child somehow intuits the function of his pp? So he is knowledgeable or innocent, which is it?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:46:25 2021 No.17789217

>>17789193
In France you could marry your children away as of 8 (for a boy) and a bit later (iirc 10) for a girl. Was like that also in the french colonies like Quebec until fairly recently (the law was never used but technically it was there until the Civil Code revision of the early 90s).

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:46:44 2021 No.17789219 >>17789192 The intention is different, obviously. If a parent touches a child anywhere for a non sinful purpose then obviously there is no problem. Lust is not a good reason to do anything, which includes, most of all, sexually abusing children.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:46:52 2021 No.17789220

>>17789197
I like the way the law works now, here's how it works:
>we assume children don't know how to make adult-level judgements because they don't
>we assume that most parents love their children and seek to keep them from harm
>parents want to kill the people who try to treat their children as adults as a backdoor way to rationalize preying upon them sexually, but will settle for imprisonment and social chastisement writ large
Consider yourself lucky that things work as they do and stop pushing lest you wish to see them work even more efficiently.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:47:36 2021 No.17789222 >>17789185 If biology, essentially reality, is saying it's okay, and you are saying no, who is the real gaslighter? >>17789193 So, why are you picking 16? and are you sure about that serious enforcement? Also, how many places adopted this law?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:47:40 2021 No.17789224 >>17789197 >the evidence right now, >Literally the only evidence are accounts by pedos justifying themselves.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:47:56 2021 No.17789226

>>17789129
Politicians spring up from the ground fully formed. The president of France did not receive a graduate degree in philosophy, Obama did not major in political science. The only people influenced by Foucault are professors.
>>17789153
>Come then, suppose we grant that this practice is now legalized, and that it is noble and in no way ignoble, how far would it promote virtue? Will it engender in the soul of him who is seduced a courageous character, or in the soul of the seducer the quality of temperance? Nobody would ever believe this; on the contrary, as all men will blame the cowardice [836e] of the man who always yields to pleasures and is never able to hold out against them, will they not likewise reproach that man who plays the woman's part with the resemblance he bears to his model? Is there any man, then, who will ordain by law a practice like that? Not one, I should say, if he has a notion of what true law is. What then do we declare to be the truth about this matter? It is necessary to discern the real nature of friendship [837a] and desire and love (so-called), if we are to determine them rightly; for what causes the utmost confusion and obscurity is the fact that this single term embraces these two things, and also a third kind compounded of them both.
I would say that Plato has a better understanding of the harm pederasty causes than most here. One has to wonder why he never married and hated the sophists so much.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:48:06 2021 No.17789229

>>17789214
him having his pp touched elicits feelings of sexual excitement that he does not understand yet, and those feelings and associated psych phenomena will now be mixed up with images of the abuser in ways that are confusing
He is innocent, but not retarded or incapable of being influenced by his body? Are you retarded, though, while we are on the subject?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:48:28 2021 No.17789233 File: 114 KB, 1024x818, Hags on suicide watch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17788539 Lefties would get triggered by this remark if they actually read and would try to get him cancelled.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:48:48 2021 No.17789236

>>17789219
so the child knows sinister motives of the adult? or is the sinister motive itself somehow traumatic? can you please explain in more detail the relation between sinister motives and trauma? If I would to touch a childs ear with evil intentions, would that traumatize him?

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:49:08 2021 No.17789238 >>17789217 Quebec is a backwater shit hole proves nothing except that I'm correct

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:49:20 2021 No.17789241 >>17789180 It is the very essence of childhood. I cannot think of something more evil than destroying the innocence of a child. If there was any justice in this world, degenerate pedo apologists such as Focault would be hanged at the public square.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:49:45 2021 No.17789244 >>17789233 This. OP is a dumb feminist normalfag and he's too stupid to even realize it.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:50:05 2021 No.17789248

>>17789214
they can retroactively reinterpret the event in the future, which can hurt them. that, and a child isn't afforded the mental or informational capacity to consent appropriately. you're a fucking freak who wants to be justified in diddling kids and you should off yourself its really simple actually

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:50:15 2021 No.17789250 >>17789238 Lemme guess, Haitian?

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:50:21 2021 No.17789252

>>17789222
I am picking 16 based on current-day studies regarding brain maturization cycles
but I didn't pick 16, I picked 16-21, because these cycles don't finish at the same age for everyone, but for most they finish up within that range.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:51:52 2021 No.17789261 >>17788539 >(deconstructionism) The fuck is this here for? Foucault, pedophile that he may have well been, was not the originator of deconstruction, nor one of its proponents.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:52:25 2021 No.17789265

>>17789244
No, I am a peak omni-autist. Normies hate child sex because they haven't thought deeply about it. faggot degen-autists think child sex is A-OK because they have *begun* to think deeply about it.

Peak omni-autists *know* child sex isn't okay because we have thought deeply about it. Do not act so foolishly just because of the intimidation it brings with it, the presence of your superiors. It is unbecoming.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:52:26 2021 No.17789266 File: 1.26 MB, 1206x936, Jouy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17788539 >Frère Pierre, ce lait ne goûte pas trop bon

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:53:58 2021 No.17789273

>>17789252
and yet throughout human history people were fucking at a much younger age. Even now, with our infantilized youth, they still fuck at an earlier age. Why is it that sex is this monstrous and super serious act and why must we be shielded from it?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:54:06 2021 No.17789277

>>17789229
>and those feelings and associated psych phenomena will now be mixed up with images of the abuser in ways that are confusing
okay, lets say that (which isnt obvious). So what is so traumatic about confusion? Children get confused all the time when trying new non-sexual things. How is sexual confusion different from lets say a child tasting a new dish? Why the former is automatically bad and the latter okay?
>>17789233
this, and Foucault was explicit about being fed up with lefties

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:54:14 2021 No.17789279 >>17789261 Not OP, but deconstructionism is in essence the questioning of the Moral Law/natural order, and that quote is a clear example of it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:54:31 2021 No.17789281 >>17788746 >paraphrased the text directly Paraphrase is an indirect citation of the ideas in a text.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:54:32 2021 No.17789282

>>17789261
he wasn't an originator, or even a conscious advocate, but he is absolutely bound up in the school of thought; all of the fans of deconstructionism consider him as being one, and its justified by the fact that he literally uses deconstructionist methods in all of his books.
This is like saying that Aurelius wasn't a philosopher because he considered himself an emperor. When you say "deconstructionist," 9 out of 10 people will say "Derrida and Foucault," and that's not just their mistake.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:54:57 2021 No.17789283 >>17789277 >why are you upset at me assraping your son, it's like eating Lasagna for the first time!

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:55:43 2021 No.17789287

>>17789273
sex isn't bad, the people are bad. Nothing on God's green Earth is bad if the people engaging in it have restraint.
Sex isn't bad. Unrestrained sexual impulse is bad. But you wouldn't know the difference because you are a weak degenerative garloid.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:56:08 2021 No.17789290

>>17789248
>they can retroactively reinterpret the event in the future, which can hurt them
agree, but then you acknowledge its socially constructed
>that, and a child isn't afforded the mental or informational capacity to consent appropriately.
the man who initiates can provide concepts and information to understand the act, just like children learn all of the things

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:56:08 2021 No.17789291

>>17789236
Seems to me you are inserting your own thoughts into what I have said. You should take some time to organize your thoughts, they might be getting a little bit too complex and profound for a mortal brain to process in an orderly manner. Here is what happened:

>How is act S different from act b?
>They are different due to intention.

I do not know how my answer relates to:
>the child knows sinister motives of the adult?
>or is the sinister motive itself somehow traumatic?
>the relation between sinister motives and trauma?

As a matter of fact, I never mentioned the child's level of awareness or any trauma.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:56:50 2021 No.17789296 >>17789281 I am glad someone noticed my spiteful remark figured 4chan.org/reddit would be too stupid to call me out. but you did it. Proud of you boy

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:57:09 2021 No.17789297

>>17789161
They're similar, and both pretty okay. Clancy spends a lot of time reiterating that she condemns pedophilia and thinks we should make it even more illegal, but we should stop creating victims out of people who don't really feel affected by it. Levine is a little more sympathetic to the concept of healthy adult/minor relationships, without endorsing them. I think both books do a pretty good job of addressing the topic fairly, though Clancy tends to come off to people as being disingenuous, since her opinions (gas all pedos) don't really match up with the logical conclusion of her research (maybe pedophilia isn't really something we should sensationalize and freak out about).

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:57:28 2021 No.17789301 >>17789279 >deconstructionism is in essence the questioning of the Moral Law/natural order No.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 13:57:55 2021 No.17789303

>>17789291
this anon you are arguing against is so eager to support his forgone conclusion of "molesting kids is fine" that he's not even listening to any of us. He was doing that same shit to me too. Guy's just a pedophile, ignore him.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:58:03 2021 No.17789306

>>17789265
Your arguments aren't those of someone who has thought deeply about it, anon.
Your posts reek of virginal, autistic anti-sex rhetoric and a moral superiority complex to mask your insidious need to punish.
>child
A horny teenager is not a child.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:58:51 2021 No.17789311 >>17789301 What is it then?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 13:59:43 2021 No.17789315

>>17789265
>Peak omni-autists *know* child sex isn't okay because we have thought deeply about it. Do not act so foolishly just because of the intimidation it brings with it, the presence of your superiors. It is unbecoming.
have you read The Trauma Myth? all you have been saying is absolutely BTFO by that book. You dont know how stupid you look.
>>17789283
I'm talkign about touching, not rape, you're avoiding my point

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:02:18 2021 No.17789328 >>17789287 Is your impulse to punish and to demonize not unrestrained? Which is the more destructive force? Why assume that the sex is not in moderation? Back when people were married at 12, was this bad?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:03:12 2021 No.17789334

>>17789207
There's no evidence of that, you're literally inventing feelings for people you've never met.

>>17789220
I don't see a problem with that.

>>17789224
The evidence is from studies claiming to show that sexual experiences are always profoundly harmful to children. The problem is that their data doesn't actually back that opinion up. It's literally the opposite going on here; anti-pedos desperately trying to justify their beliefs in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:03:29 2021 No.17789337

It's always hilarious to see coomers desperately try to justify their perversions as "good". They simply can't say "yeah I'm a degenerate" and go on with their lives. They simply MUST rationalize their behavior.
That's why intellectuals are worthless. Everything they say is elaborate mental gymnastics to avoid the feeling of guilt.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:03:55 2021 No.17789341

>>17789282
>but he is absolutely bound up in the school of thought
For this claim to even begin to be compelling, you'd need to dig into what Derrida was doing and compare it to what Foucault was doing. On pass, I think you'd find your claim unsubstantiated.
>all of the fans of deconstructionism consider him as being one
They certainly do not.
>he literally uses deconstructionist methods in all of his books
Name one.
>When you say "deconstructionist," 9 out of 10 people will say "Derrida and Foucault," and that's not just their mistake.
No, it absolutely is. When I think of deconstruction I think of Derrida and Paul de Man, maybe Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak at the margin. That's it. People who think Foucault advocated for or employed deconstruction (and it's arguable that it can be employed) tend to fall into one camp: people who haven't read any Derrida and vanishingly little Foucault. They also tend to be readers of Stephen Hicks and maybe Jordan Peterson, two writers who've been shown to not know very little about their philosophical subjects.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:04:38 2021 No.17789348 >>17789241 Children are literally a modern social construct

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:05:00 2021 No.17789350 >>17789296 Have you ever measured to learn how far your head is up your ass?

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:05:13 2021 No.17789352

>>17789306
>A horny teenager is not a child.
You fuckers ALWAYS reveal yourself. The problem isn't me, its your desire to trivialize the line between adult/teenager/child because you want to have sex with them.
"A horny teenager is not a child." Untold thousands of your compatriots all told the judge the same thing when their time came, but it didn't stop them from being gangraped in prison.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:05:59 2021 No.17789359 >>17789315 >I'm talkign about touching, not rape, you're avoiding my point >Dude I'm just rubbing my throbbing hard cock all over your sons thighs calm down I'm going to give him some baked ziti later!

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:06:00 2021 No.17789357 >>17789311 plato.stanford.edu/entries/derrida/#Dec

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:06:00 2021 No.17789358 >>17789265 oh so you're a creepy nomap

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:06:08 2021 No.17789360 >>17789341 man, dont effort post when you talk to literal brainlets. You will waste your time and they will cope harder. He probably has read one book of Plato and thinks he is smart.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:07:03 2021 No.17789368

>>17789303
He seems to be of the belief that we (and reality itself for that matter) are(is) no more than the atoms that make us up, which is why my original response was simply calling him an atom clump, as opposed to a human or some other sort of classification. If one takes a position like that it is easy to see why they veer off into any number of monstrosities. Having said that, the above assumes he is an ideologically consistent clump of atoms (how is it even possible to say such a statement???) however considering the lack of philosophical comprehension, we never really know the full extent. In short, I agree.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:07:36 2021 No.17789372

>>17789315
>have you read the book about sexual trauma written by an academic-hypnosis female? Academic-hypnosis females have really sane and legitimate views on sex, and sex trauma. Just look at all college-educated western women today, they clearly understand this stuff and aren't manipulated against their own well-being. The book written by an academic-hypnosis female about sexual trauma absolutely BTFOs what you are saying, you look stupid because of academic-hypnosis female writings about sex.
Lol, ok

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:07:51 2021 No.17789374 >>17789359 still, you appeal to common sense. Provide me with detailed explanation how trauma occurs in the case of pp touching? What is traumatic? Child's confusion? The touch of the pp itself? Be more specific or gtfo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:08:03 2021 No.17789375 >>17789352 >there is no distinction to be made between post pubescent and pre pubescent when talking about sex Absolutely braindead take.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:08:40 2021 No.17789376

>>17789328
Buddy, I don't give a fuck that you've read Discipline and Punish. Any book that tries to reduce all phenomena to one narrowly defined set of impulses is fucking retarded babble, and you should have realized that by now. Someday you will grow up

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:09:00 2021 No.17789380 >>17789352 teenagers are an invention of the 1950s, the same Coca-Cola capitalism you ""trads"" so badly want to go back to

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:09:21 2021 No.17789381 >>17789372 literal ad hom, can you stop moralfaging and seething for one second to formulate a normal argument?

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:09:59 2021 No.17789384 >>17789334 No, I am just not forfeiting my good sense to indulge in horse shit like midwits such as yourself are eager to do >>17789341 >I think you'd have a hard time comparing Derrida to Foucault This board is T.R.A.S.H.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:10:02 2021 No.17789385 >>17789376 >reduce all phenomena to one narrowly defined set of impulses is fucking retarded babble Kind of like what you're doing now?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:10:10 2021 No.17789387 https://thecritic.co.uk/is-foucault-responsible-for-identity-politics/

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:10:25 2021 No.17789390

>>17789167
Early age of consent laws only applied to virgin girls; it wasn't a crime of rape against the girl, but a crime of depriving a man of his daughter's virtue. It only really applied to wealthy families, and it was possible to get out of a conviction by saying "but she was so damn good at it, there's no way she was a virgin."

That's pretty far removed from modern age of consent laws, it's a stretch to consider the two the same thing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:10:52 2021 No.17789392 >>17789374 Please respond to >>17789291 Why are you ignoring me? Please respond!!!

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:11:42 2021 No.17789399 >>17789384 >the election tourist /pol/ normie comes to /lit/ and calls everyone a midwit AAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:11:59 2021 No.17789403 >>17789170 God the French language makes everything sound hotter.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:12:43 2021 No.17789409

>>17789357
>Simply, deconstruction is a criticism of Platonism, which is defined by the belief that existence is structured in terms of oppositions (separate substances or forms) and that the oppositions are hierarchical, with one side of the opposition being more valuable than the other. The first phase of deconstruction attacks this belief by reversing the Platonistic hierarchies: the hierarchies between the invisible or intelligible and the visible or sensible; between essence and appearance; between the soul and body; between living memory and rote memory; between mnēmē and hypomnēsis; between voice and writing; between finally good and evil.
>between finally good and evil.
Thank you. After reading that I'm even more convinced that deconstruction is exactly what I thought it was: a fancy term to describe the questioning of objective morality, aka coomers justifying their perversions as not inherently wrong.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:13:03 2021 No.17789411

>>17789381
ad hom, or absolutely true?
The reason academics never win anything is because their theoretical arguments exist in a vacuum. What is a "normal" argument, to you? One that totally eschews things like biological determinism, instinct, social economy, etc when analyzing human beings? One that lives and breathes "social constructions?" Then no, I won't, because that shit is as useless as a wall made of doors.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:13:08 2021 No.17789413 >>17789392 Provide me with detailed explanation how trauma occurs in the case of pp touching? And how the bodily function plays a role in that? What your model of trauma?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:14:11 2021 No.17789421 >>17789384 you obviously havent read Foucualt nor Derrida and you got btfo so hard by that anon you resort to crying about lit, this is beyond pathetic. Really, probably another /pol/ trash

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:14:36 2021 No.17789426

>>17789399
are you the guy who, with a straight faced, typed "comparing Derrida to Foucault would be hard?"
Lmao, I wish I were a /pol/ tourist, at least then I'd be a retarded ideologue engaging with other retarded ideologues. Instead I'm just a high IQ person engaging with my inferiors, but those who aren't inferior enough to see it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:15:07 2021 No.17789431 >>17789411 You're on the side of social construct here, homes. Age of consent is a social construct and fucking when your body tells you to fuck is common sense instinct and biological reality. This fuckin' guy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:15:39 2021 No.17789433 >>17789411 >ad hom, or absolutely true? ad hom, since you ignore her argument. Nor does she ignore biological aspects. You're fighting with shadows

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:15:48 2021 No.17789434

>>17789421
I've read both at length, lmao that's why I'm in such shock, amusement and disgust over the remark. Its probably not even worth engaging with people who seriously think there's no theoretical link between Derrida and Foucault, I may as well just start sitting in the back section of PHL 101 classes and probing those students minds for insight instead. Holy fucking crap

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:15:50 2021 No.17789435

>>17789290
>agree, but then you acknowledge its socially constructed
it is partially social because sexual stigma exists, but this idea that its totally social or that the stigma has no hypophysical basis is delusional. your argument (i assume) is that sexual puritanism is constructed to control people, but then you say
>the man who initiates can provide concepts and information to understand the act, just like children learn all of the things
how is this *not* a form of control? the adult male who knows more leverages his situatedness to convince a child its ok to have sex with him. he constructs the rules and ideas that validate what they're doing. the problem is that its a one way street; the adult man is always the authority, the writer of the rules, and as such, the child cannot really participate equally. he is getting what he wants out of the relationship while the child is helpless to know any better if its what they want, and that is what is traumatic.

there is no one more power hungry than a pedophile, which is the irony surrounding focault

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:15:59 2021 No.17789437 >>17789194 >>17789241 I think innocence and childhood just stems from Christian Original sin mythology, and how immaterial things are seen as more pure than material. Hence "children are pure, but are defiled by the world".

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:16:08 2021 No.17789440

>>17789374
>provide me with detailed explanation... in the case of pp touching?
I think I'll appeal to "common sense" once again and stop responding to an obvious pedophile.
>>17789380
>teenagers are an invention of the 1950s
sick high school history lesson. The scientific and psychological studies on what a teenager is have been going on since the turn of the century.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:17:16 2021 No.17789449

>>17789431
its a social construct informed by the consequences of biology, that's the difference. My side recognizes that sexuality is often predatory, that males are stronger than females and adults stronger than children, that there are amoral people in the world; we recognize a variety of biological factors that would necessitate a socially constructed safeguard against abuses.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:17:53 2021 No.17789457 >>17789384 >my disingenuous paraphrase totally shows what a brainlet you are Marvelous strategy, my man!

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:18:24 2021 No.17789462

>>17789433
*her* argument? You mean Clancy's? Calm down, I'll read the book, I've already been looking into it. Seems fucking stupid desu but I'm not about to claim "good intellectual" and then refuse to read a book that goes against what I intuit.
Still seems like the ramblings of a hypnotized cunt, though.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:18:42 2021 No.17789464

>>17789413
My response was unrelated to trauma, it is fully irrelevant and unnecessary if one wishes to demonstrate the difference between a congratulatory pat on the back and sexual abuse. Can you explain to me why it is absolutely necessary to create a model of trauma to achieve the above? Or are you incapable or unwilling to move beyond your particular paradigm into the universal?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:19:43 2021 No.17789473

>>17789434
>who seriously think there's no theoretical link between Derrida and Foucault
then provide the link, you can do it. Or will you really go out and lie about having read them on /lit/ to appear superior to strangers on the internet?
>>17789435
I really didnt have in mind that providing symbolic framework trough which the child understand the act is control or somehow bad. Children learn about sex fro mthe internet in a way nastier ways you could imagine. I see absolutely nothing wrong if a child learns it from someone who has a good will. Thats why I would not be for decriminalizing pedophilia, because there are a lot of people who are just retarded and have no good will towards children.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:20:00 2021 No.17789475 >>17789409 If you're going to quote snipe hundreds of words and then tease out the message you wanted, that's on you, but don't conflate what you've done with what that secondary source is trying to say.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:21:59 2021 No.17789488

>>17789440
>I think I'll appeal to "common sense" once again and stop responding to an obvious pedophile.
why, there's a lot of data on the trauma studies currently that show how our common sensical notion of trauma is misguided, since the subjective and symbolical interpretation of the act plays bigger role than the act itself. But whatever helps you sleep better at night.
>>17789462
nah, she builds her argument in a decent way. I know youll have bad feelings in the tummy tummy when reading her since she is 180 degree opposite of your views, but with enough lube you will let the truth into your heart

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:22:03 2021 No.17789491

>>17789449
If both parties enter in willingly, and no coercion is involved, then how is this predatory? If the girl is attracted to the guy, and the guy the girl, why is this wrong?
Why is the assumption that this is predatory?
If a girl is 5'2 90lbs and has an IQ of 80 is she off limits for life? Is she only allowed to date short retards?

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:22:11 2021 No.17789493

>>17789473
I'm not lying, but I don't feel especially motivated to prove a link that's about as obvious to anyone in the know as the link between fucking Kant and Hume. Seems like the person who doesn't see that link is just a retarded novice that I'd be better off ridiculing and then ignoring. Holy shit

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:22:17 2021 No.17789495 DARE I SAY BUH-BUH-BUH BASED !!!

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:23:21 2021 No.17789498

>>17789297
>>17789182
Thanks guys, sounds like good reading material. She does sound like she is adding fuel to the pedo boogeyman fire, which I find has become the new justification for many asinine things (Qanon and the like), so I will have to keep that in mind when reading her book.
It sounds good though, thanks for the recs once again, and its very tiring having a lot of faggots ITT give their neo Christian opinions and LARP as experts about things they don't know anything about.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:23:41 2021 No.17789503

>>17789434
Perhaps you should reread them at length, with a secondary text this time to improve your comprehension.

Whatever theoretical links exist between Derrida and Foucault, they occur upstream in history. Links do exist—let's be clear—but that's a far cry from saying Foucault is working within Derrida's theoretical apparatus, which you've claimed, and which he's not.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:24:03 2021 No.17789504

>>17789488
I'm more nuanced when in srs mode than I'm being in this thread, if she's just making the case that not literally every adult-to-child sex act under the sun results in what we typically call "trauma," then I can buy that without even reading the book. I already believe that that's probably the case, and I could see how, neurochemically, it'd be possible.
But, if she's arguing that these traumatic cases simply don't exist at all, or are not truly traumatic, then she'd best produce an airtight case because I already don't buy that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:24:09 2021 No.17789507 >>17789437 Innocence is not an abstraction but an reality that is experienced personally by all human beings, particularly evidenced in how it feels to lose it. Christianity did not arbitrarily invent it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:24:47 2021 No.17789508 >>17789464 then I dont know what we are talking about, from what other perspetive should we judge touch of the pp if not from the harm/trauma? >>17789493 okay, so you did lie about it, pathetic. but funny!

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:24:53 2021 No.17789509 >>17789498 >the pedo boogeyman fire This. OP has swallowed a boogeyman to chase to get his hate-rocks off. Many such cases.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:26:06 2021 No.17789515

>>17789503
they're both deconstructionist/post-structuralist. Nowhere in the academic world is this controversial, and nowhere in the normal world is it controversial except for in this thread and in your mind.
I claimed that they're both deconstructionist/post-structuralist, and that this is an orthodox view. Both things are true. Your ignorance of them is embarrassing for you, but not much else.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:28:12 2021 No.17789525 >>17789504 just read her, no point in fighting shadows

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:28:17 2021 No.17789526

>>17789509
You will be destroyed by the fury of the righteous, and your fear will satisfy our pangings for justice.
The time has not come upon us yet; as of now, we still endure the YOUR respite.
But with each second, the hand draws closer...
Tick, tock, tick, tock.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:28:49 2021 No.17789530

>>17789473
>Children learn about sex fro mthe internet in a way nastier ways you could imagine
and therefore some sex-staved adult should educate them, right? lol
>I really didn't have in mind that providing symbolic framework trough which the child understand the act is control or somehow bad
isn't that how stigma and "demonization" are wrought? look, you're not escaping the fact that the child has no choice but to consider the adult as an authority figure and therefore have full faith in their intentions
>Thats why I would not be for decriminalizing pedophilia, because there are a lot of people who are just retarded and have no good will towards children.
>but I have a good will
this self-framing as the virtuous erastes is so screwed up. the difference between a relationship between another adult vs another child is that an adult stands on equal footing with you and can consent of their own accord without your tutoring. its so simple, the relationship between a child and adult cannot be ethical because you are an authority figure and they must listen. its exploitative.
>inb4 a semantical discussion on what constitutes and adult vs child is thrown in
you know exactly what you're doing. you don't need some air tight definition to know you're exploiting someone more helpless than yourself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:28:52 2021 No.17789531 >>17789003 well yeah, nobody had any problem with 12 years old getting fucked pre 1800

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:29:16 2021 No.17789537 >>17789526 Same to you, you fear-mongering twit

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:29:18 2021 No.17789538 >>17789525 Already in the process anonymoose

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:30:31 2021 No.17789550

>>17789530
>kids are already having their innocence destroyed through the top-down imposed internet apparatus that no normal citizen asked for, so you might as well let me fuck your kids
the best way to defeat the pedophile is to allow him to speak in public without fear of the people around him.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:32:08 2021 No.17789560

>>17789537
nothing to be afraid of except the mob, anon. Nothing to be afraid of except the mob.
In times like this, barely anyone can agree on who the enemy is. But no matter who I speak to, the thinking on pedophiles doesn't seem to have budged.
Rule by the majority = MOB rule
MOB rule = rule under the beliefs of the majority
Nothing to fear but the mob, anon.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:33:53 2021 No.17789573

>>17789530
>isn't that how stigma and "demonization" are wrought?
yes, my point is that our predominant narrative is what essentialy traumatizes the children, not the power disbalance between children and adults or they lack of development or other common sensical cliches. and there is good amount of scientific literature that supports this.
>the relationship between a child and adult cannot be ethical
well good thing we are not in ethics class. Whether its ethical or not is irrelevant. Its relevant only to the degree if its harmful or not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:34:06 2021 No.17789574 >>17789550 Based thought-crime police >>17789560 So, you're literally just a cowardly faceless asshole in a sea of unthinking torch wielding maniacs who want to see blood? Yeah, you're definitely the good guy.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:35:01 2021 No.17789582 >>17789573 kids actually don't mind being raped its just that society has societized them to see being raped as a bad thing Does anyone buy this when you argue it elsewhere, pedo-anon?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:35:16 2021 No.17789584 >>17789291 this >>17788850 post was talking about the trauma the child faces retard

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:35:35 2021 No.17789587

https://forensicpsychologist.blogspot.com/2016/07/book-review-trauma-myth-by-susan-clancy.html

Looking at this review, and this >>17789226 it seems that she's come to the same conclusion as Plato did in regards to the confusion the introduction of sexuality by a more formed person brings to a youth.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:36:19 2021 No.17789594

>>17789582
most of CBA cases are not rape, but harmless touching, so it makes sense that trauma comes not from the act itself.
>Does anyone buy this when you argue it elsewhere, pedo-anon?
are you a woman? because they usually socially shame when they have nothing to say. Beyond pathetic.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:36:32 2021 No.17789596

>>17789574
I am not a member of the mob, but every thinking man aims to steer the direction of the mob. That's all that separates us from them, really.
And I have been pleasantly surprised to see that the mob, despite all efforts, still hates pedophiles with a murderous passion.
I won't be *in* that mob, anon, but I'll be waving along.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:37:16 2021 No.17789603

>>17789475
In OP’s quote, Foucault questions the very idea that there is something inherently wrong with pedophilia; he is, as it is, “deconstructing” the old structure: the Western understanding that there is a metaphysical Moral Law, and we are subjected to it.
Why is he doing this? Because he is implying that because the prepubescent girl felt good and had fun, no evil was done. This implication only makes sense with the tacit denial of the existence of an objective, metaphysical standard of goodness. If there is no objective right and wrong, then the only measure is subjective (aka feels good or bad), and any attempt to punish people for doing what feels good to them is just collective neurosis.
He is just defending himself for being a faggot, don’t you see? It’s so obvious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:38:33 2021 No.17789613 >>17789507 What exactly is "lost"? Any why is it a bad thing, if a person is supposed to grow up? People who are mentally stunted think like children, are they innocent as well?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:38:56 2021 No.17789619

>>17789596
You've adopted the attitude of the mob, a recent attitude with no basis in reality that is actually counter-productive. Your intentions don't matter, results do, and you fear-mongering assholes only make things worse for everyone, including the children. This is what the data shows.
You're a misguided fool, anon.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:38:57 2021 No.17789620

>>17789594
I take great pride in socially shaming pedophiles and pedophile apologists such as yourself.
But, let us not be confused: this is not "social shaming," we are on an anonymous imageboard, and I am not under the impression that my comments elicit shame within you.
What this is, is me calling out your "rational argument" as a mish-mash of horseshit that always leads back to "fucking kids isn't bad and is only bad because we societized it into being bad"
why do the arguments of your ilk, no matter their content, always lead back there? I think everyone who isn't buying it, knows why.
Pedophile freak.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:38:57 2021 No.17789621 >>17789594 Why don't you actually read the Trauma Myth instead of NAMBLA gushings?

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:39:59 2021 No.17789626 >>17789619 Idk man. A mob will never try to kill me for being a pedophile. You don't seem equally secure about this. Who's misguided?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:41:11 2021 No.17789632 >>17789626 So you're a coward who will steer everyone else off a cliff out of fear. Got it. You're super smart and awesome. Good job.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:41:21 2021 No.17789633

>>17788850
>If adult does something sexual to a kid (and its not physically harmful) its literally just physical objects interacting, since the kid does not understand the significance of it, so it cant be traumatic. The meaning comes from outside of the situation.
That’s just not true. The trauma exists whether the child is aware of it or not, often manifesting in obvious ways years after the fact.
Children are not meant to be involved in sexual behavior. They are not ready for it, both physically and psychologically. There are stages of physical and psychological development they must go through first if they are to become healthy.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:41:44 2021 No.17789635

>>17789603
>Why is he doing this?
because he wants to conceptualize the shifts in how the power functions, you would know that if you have read him, but you choose to project your own psychoanalysis into a limited excerpt. Please dont embarass yourself.
>>17789620
you are too just psychoanalysing. You would literally refuse a sound argument only because of your fantasized intention about the opponent youre arguing with. I'm not even a pedophile.
>>17789621
I've read it and thats what Susan argues for

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:42:15 2021 No.17789639

>>17789515
>deconstructionist/post-structuralist
These aren't even the same thing, which your forward slash implies. Never mind that you've consistently gotten the term wrong: it's deconstruction, no -ist, no -ism. Anyway, Post-structuralism is a moving beyond structuralism, a response to it. Deconstruction is a contending with structuralism. Deconstruction doesn't move past structuralism so much as constantly engages with it. You'd know this if you'd read (and understood) even the barest hint of the primary or secondary texts.

So yes, your claim would be very controversial in the academy. Admittedly, I can envision a version of your argument with some interesting merits (though, with which, I think, most scholars would ultimately disagree), but you've thus far failed to deliver such a version. You haven't really substantiated your claims at all.

Maybe your claim would fly in the world outside the academy. I don't see why that has any relevance in a conversation about prickly academic shit.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:42:41 2021 No.17789643

>>17789508
As I said the first time: the intention is key.

>from what other perspetive should we judge touch of the pp if not from the harm/trauma
You ignore the fact that intentions exist, and can either be good or bad.

>parent touching child on body anywhere for parenting reasons
>good
>anyone touching a child on body anywhere for lustful reasons
>bad

Because lust is bad, and doing things for the sake of lust is bad. This includes doing so with any person, but especially so in the case of a child.

>>17789584
Don't care, I was responding to:
>>17789192
Retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:43:43 2021 No.17789652 >>17789613 Ironically, people who are sexually abused in childhood are the ones who often become mentally stunted or “stuck”. Their psychological development gets interrupted by the trauma.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:44:36 2021 No.17789659 >>17789643 >Because lust is bad is it morally bad in itself or because of its consequences?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:45:42 2021 No.17789669 >>17789652 That's not really how it works anon, trauma doesn't mean your mental development is halted...

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:45:56 2021 No.17789670

>>17789507
Yes, but the value of innoncence has its base on something even deeper for christians, but it doesn't seem to be that way for atheists.
Let's say there's a 30 yo male and a 10 yo girl, two people who were born and grew up together in an island. Would you expect the guy to try to have sex with the girl? Yes, because his instincts would tell him that this female looks attractive enough to mate. Would he be wrong, if he feels that the desire to have sex is an indication of what ''good'' is, even if he would be ruinning the girl's innocence?
So it seems like you just have to choose what is your highest value, which is very arbitrary when you take a God out of the picture.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:46:03 2021 No.17789673 >>17789659 is it morally bad in itself

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:46:33 2021 No.17789677

>>17789632
no, I just hate pedophiles and midwits; and recognize that pedophiles and apologists are now using some of the same core midwit arguments/appeals that have been used to mainstream other forms of twistedness, currently destroying our societies and which is always imposed despite protests from the majority of people. And I'm well-versed enough in your own academic horseshit, and intelligent enough myself, to put an end to it in your own arena. The public is often not able to do this, they don't know the esoteric obstacle course of "reasoning" that you use to get to "let me and my boys fuck kids." But I do.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:46:46 2021 No.17789680 >>17789673 why?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:47:04 2021 No.17789684 >>17789659 >>17789673 Oops. I meant: it is morally bad in itself.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:47:14 2021 No.17789689

>>17789573
or maybe you could simply not diddle kids instead, a little self discipline will cause a lot less trauma than trying to entirely uproot naturally inferred social norms don't you think
>my point is that our predominant narrative is what essentialy traumatizes the children, not the power disbalance between children and adults
is another way of saying
>if we gaslight children into thinking its ok for me to "educate them on their sexuality" then they won't feel bad / won't be harmed
can't you see how fucked up that is? your entire premise is that you can use kids to gratify yourself sexually as long as you trick them into thinking its ok. its unethical and frankly it is harmful, as they'll eventually realize what you did to them was something they had no control over.
>Whether its ethical or not is irrelevant. Its relevant only to the degree if its harmful or not.
stay away from people's kids. your entire philosophy is sophistry and trickery

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:47:32 2021 No.17789691 >bunkerchan faggots desperately trying to defend pedophilia many such cases

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:48:01 2021 No.17789693 >>17789677 there was not a single claim made about fucking children. All we are talking about is where does the harm/trauma stem from in sexual relations among children and adults. You really should tone down your paranoia.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:48:32 2021 No.17789696

>>17789635
>because he wants to conceptualize the shifts in how the power functions
What people say they want is not what they actually want. This is common sense. By their fruits you shall know them. I don’t need to read hundreds of pages of a faggot’s blabbery to know he is just rationalizing his own perversions.
In the end the truth is he died of AIDS.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:48:49 2021 No.17789699

>>17789639
Deconstructionism is assuredly a thing, lmao. You are making yourself sound functionally retarded. Deconstructionism is the method used to "deconstruct" a series of social constructions that it claims society consists of. Post-structuralists are thinkers who see this idea as valid, and, having accepted it, are working on building new structures in the place of the deconstructed ones, or, working on a system that avoids unnecessary social constructions altogether.
They are different, but inextricably linked, which is what my forward slash implied.
You're just not ready for this yet kid, what're you like, 21? 22? A few more years and you'll be there but not yet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:49:04 2021 No.17789702 >>17789677 You are an extremely deluded and silly individual. Good day.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:50:02 2021 No.17789710

>>17789689
I dont want to diddle them. I think feminsits gaslighted as you say, children into trauma. I'm not for pedo relations. I'm for changing the predominant narrative in a way that would minimize their trauma and at the same would not enable pedophilia

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:50:15 2021 No.17789713 >>17789696 if 2000 different arguments with different premises all conclude with "so in summation, fucking kids isn't really a big deal and I should be allowed to do it," then you know what's actually going on there.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:51:18 2021 No.17789723

>>17789603
OP is not quoting anything. He's paraphrasing. I would suggest you break out a copy of the History of Sexuality Vol. 1 to compare the original text to how the OP has portrayed it. That's not to say the OP is trying a sleight of hand here. I just wonder how your mileage my vary were you to read the actual text.

Furthermore, questioning a historical understanding of metaphysical moral law is not a deconstruction of it. Deconstruction is a bit more finicky. And if your claim were the case, then quite a few people who aren't considered users of Derrida's theoretical apparatus would need to be inducted into the club. Literally everyone who has ever questioned said law, by the way you've framed deconstruction.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:51:19 2021 No.17789724 >>17789702 we will see who is silly and deluded when the public finally snaps and stops humoring your delusions. I think it will be crystal clear by then

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:51:33 2021 No.17789730

>>17789696
Okay, so youre writing all of your stuff only because youre a closeted pedo who is not sure about his sexuality and vents off at his own projection of his forbidden wishes. I will ignore your argument and will jsut repeat youre closeted pedo

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:51:58 2021 No.17789734

>>17789691
>questioning current christ fag moral values
>defending pedophilia
Yeah no man, you guys just can't accept that your highest and holiest moral values can be social constructs. Not that this makes them any less valid, but it jsut means we can discuss them and see what is best, but it means you bitches need to stop thinking God will smite you for wrongthink.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:52:37 2021 No.17789741 >>17789699 >Deconstructionism is the method used to "deconstruct" Derrida specifically says not to udnerstand deconstruction as an method that "someone" uses. You have not even read his letter to japanese friend, which is literally 10 pages~ long

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:52:40 2021 No.17789743

>>17789680
"Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes." - Catechism of the Catholic Church

>disordered desire
>sought for itself
>isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:53:44 2021 No.17789755 >>17789699 >Post-structuralists engage in structuralism I think that says about everything we need to know about your expertise with the subject matter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:54:04 2021 No.17789757 >>17789734 >God will smite you for wrongthink Obviously nobody thinks that. The punishment is to wallow in filth while on earth (by choice) and then finally severed from God in the afterlife.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:54:14 2021 No.17789758 >>17789743 sorry I dont talk to people who base their arguments on spooks. Especially on cat*olic spooks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:54:29 2021 No.17789760 >>17789741 Source for the letter? Not the guy you're arguing with, just interested.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:54:29 2021 No.17789761 >>17789730 It always comes down to this >I choose to imagine that they want exactly what I want and it has to be that way because I'm right and not a bad person this is when you know the argument has ended

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:54:56 2021 No.17789767 >>17789724 >People place too much importance on x >well people would kill you for x such convincing arguments

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:55:14 2021 No.17789769 >>17789758 Would Plato or Aristotle suffice? I can probably dig up the same exact thing from them LOL! Or is nothing acceptable unless it conforms with your particular paradigm?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:55:41 2021 No.17789775 >>17789760 https://grattoncourses.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/letter_to_a_japanese.pdf its a good intro to the notion of deconstruction, you will know more than 99 percent of lit about derrida after reading this text

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:56:22 2021 No.17789780 >>17789760 grattoncourses.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/letter_to_a_japanese.pdf

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:56:30 2021 No.17789782 >>17789757 >slave morality Have fun friend

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 14:57:24 2021 No.17789788

>>17789734
social constructs are legitimate entities. they're legitimate concepts. they can have good reasons for being constructed and enforced. zero social constructions is anarchy. Its not profound to point out that most social institutions are socially constructed. It only seems profound to people who then want to use this truism as a weapon for saying that all our current institutions are bad, so that they can replace them with institutions more amenable to them. Most of our institutions are safeguards against criminals, predators, etc. What type of person would then want to oppose, "deconstruct" and replace them? ;)
This is not rocket science lol. Its just the enemies of society trying to create a society based on their socially-antagonistic views, enshrined as social constructions.
If you applied deconstructionist logic to all the remedial proposals suggested by deconstructionists; it would all still apply, because its a truism, and not a criticism, to say that something is socially constructed.
So you wind up in a position where the issue isn't a lapse in logic, or a lack of theoretical coherence, or anything academic; its just that these people are a bunch of freaks who don't see anything wrong with it, and we disagree, so we have to assert ourselves against them and that's it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:57:57 2021 No.17789791 >>17789782 >fun I will let the children play while I concern myself with serious things.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:58:50 2021 No.17789801 >>17789775 >>17789780 Thanks friends, learning a lot here.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 14:58:55 2021 No.17789802

>>17789761
stop being so angry and just acknowledge your repressed sexual feelings towards the children
>>17789769
Plato and Aristotles are good thinkers, brainlets like you should not mention them. But their words cant be taken as an absolute authority and they would agree with me. Truth is what we should seek, not daddy's affirmation. And for Plato, lust was not bad in itself. Its bad only if it avoids its relation to logos. Plato wasnt your every day christian cuck.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:00:09 2021 No.17789812 >>17789788 or you would want to "deconstruct" the predominant social constructs because they literally harm children you fucking stupid moron, read >>17789710

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:00:22 2021 No.17789814

>>17789741
Derrida said a lot of bullshit, doesn't mean any of it is true. He literally uses this method himself throughout most of his works lmao. The Work of Mourning is full of it. Every Derrida book is just the guy trying to find specks of nihilism in institutions and concepts by revealing how they are "socially constructed." There may be no written or stated method, but he clearly has an inborn calculus he's applying when he's making these judgements.
Unless, of course, one wants to simply admit that its just a series of subjective, polemic ramblings hiding under "objectivity." I'd happily accept that, too.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:01:00 2021 No.17789816

>>17789734
>but it jsut means we can discuss them and see what is best
That's disingenuous, considering that it's obvious that practing christians don't just follow God's morality regardless of how they feel about it, even if most of them them do not comprehend good and evil is their entireties.
If people were instrospective as possible, then they would fully agree with the christian God in everything.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:01:22 2021 No.17789821

>>17789791
>living his whole life, just waiting to die
Yep, have fun

>>17789788
That's exactly my point, they're social construct and therefore can shift and change. Not some given standard by some God or anyone else, so therefore we can do like Foucault and discuss them, analyze them, shake them about and see what is up. Again, this is not about everyone fucking small children, its about rethinking our moral values, because they might actually hurt people in unintended ways.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:02:04 2021 No.17789827 >>17789755 >the members of an ideology engage with elements of its direct ideological antecedent >thinks that pointing this out is a "gotcha" You're not intelligent, anon.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:02:04 2021 No.17789829

>>17789670
>which is very arbitrary when you take a God out of the picture.
Exactly. When you reason with God out of the picture, your reasoning becomes morbid. Reason was the only god in the French Revolution, and it only lead to calamity and bloodshed.
All evil can be traced back to man abandoning God.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:02:29 2021 No.17789833 >>17789814 Well, if you claim deconstruction is one thing and Derrida clearly says its not, no amount of cope will prove that right. Maybe I'll trust Derrida.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:03:14 2021 No.17789838

'Deconstruct', alas, is no longer a neologism but sounds, to lay ears, like it just means dismantle. Hence when woke liberals want to 'decolonise' or get rid of 'whiteness' etc., their (equally) uninformed opponents actually add a bit of jargon on top of it, and think they're busy 'deconstructing' ('western civilisation')...

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:03:42 2021 No.17789842 >>17789821 The people who are capable of doing this, should do it, anon. Midwits aren't capable, they wind up being sweet-talked into supporting pedophilia and child hormone therapy as a civil rights issue.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:04:02 2021 No.17789846 >>17789816 Wait what? What the fuck are you arguing, that if people were introspective they would agree with everything in Christianity? Are you insane?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:04:02 2021 No.17789847

>>17789633
Where is your evidence for any of that? Kids have to be trained out of constantly touching their (and others') genitals. For thousands and thousands of years, people lived in caves and then single room huts where kids would have seen and heard adults having sex. Sex between adults and youths is common among animals, particularly primates. The only source for the idea of pervasive harm from childhood sexual experiences is from modern feminists in the last 50 years or so, much of it discredited and most of the rest resulting from conflating uncoerced sexual encounters with literal violent rape.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:04:55 2021 No.17789853 >>17789833 Derrida can claim all he wants that the exact method he used to do his methodological work "shouldn't be seen as a method," but that's only evidence that the guy was a disingenuous, pompous ass-hat, and not that its true.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:05:25 2021 No.17789855 >>17789842 I think that's an argument for more education, and not more dogma. Ironically Foucault would probably say something about power here and classrooms, but I don't care.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:07:33 2021 No.17789870

>>17789855
Nah. That's an egalitarian argument. It isn't possible for everyone or even the majority to be intellectually elite or specialized, nor would it even be desirable. No matter the amount or quality of education you throw at these people, you will never defeat the chimera of genetics and apathy.
Some people aren't built for it, most others do not care; which, in the long-run, means they weren't built for it either.
This "educate the wurld" shit is just academics projecting on to everyone else and one of the main reasons I hate the class I come from. Nobody hates intellectuals like an intellectual who can see what's worth hating about intellectuals.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:08:13 2021 No.17789874 >>17789853 whatever helps you sleep at night, cope harder lol. You are wrong and I'm right. Understanding deconstruction as a method is the biggest meme you can say about it.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:08:41 2021 No.17789876

>>17789802
>But their words cant be taken as an absolute authority
Obviously

>they would agree with me
What would they agree with specifically and where can I read their agreement?

>Truth is what we should seek, not daddy's affirmation
r/atheist tier take on Christianity

>And for Plato, lust was not bad in itself
That would depend on the definition, however when I use the word lust I mean: "Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure." It is certain that the sort of man who is led around every which way by his disordered and inordinate cravings for pleasure for their own sake is a man who would be harshly condemned by Plato.

>Its bad only if it avoids its relation to logos
By definition it avoids its relation to logos.

>Plato and Aristotles are good thinkers
>Plato wasnt your every day......
Actually they are extremely similar. Sounds like you might like Christianity if you gave it a fair shot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:09:18 2021 No.17789880 >>17789816 What does the Christian God have to say about the proper age to begin having sex?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:12:39 2021 No.17789904

>>17789870
No, but we can change what we teach in schools.
We used to teach a lot of nonsense, academics analyzed it, changed the curriculum and culture and society shifts. We can do the same with stuff like this, create a more nuanced view on things than just "everyone who has sex before 18 is a fucking psychopath", and the whole pedo scare that is being used as a crutch for many neo Christian values and nutter stuff like Qanon and pizza gate. Is harming children bad? Yes. Has the discussion on what harms children been blown out of proportion? Yes. I think we can combat this by education, not that everyone becomes an academic, but what we teach in schools have a big effect on society. I realize you can't avoid dogma completely, but you can train the ability to critically think, and change what is taught at schools so it is less dogmatic like "sex bad!" and instead "sex is complicated and has many facets, let's discuss and explore them".

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:13:17 2021 No.17789910

>>17789827
Engaging with structuralism for a post-structuralist would be pointing out how the structures are artificial and not representative of the the realities they purport to represent. Engaging with structuralism for a post-structuralist would be pointing out that structuralist narratives are grand narratives, which exclude or misrepresent the vast majority of lived experiences. Engaging with structuralism for post-structuralists would not not be engaging in the creation of new structures. Has it happened? Possibly. An unconscious reconstruction or erection of a new structure isn't even improbable; but I wouldn't characterize an critical and theoretical movement by its antecedent and opposite because of it. And you went even further.

>You're not intelligent, anon.
It's cute how you do this every time you feel unmoored from your limited understanding of your subjects.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:13:28 2021 No.17789914

>>17789876
>What would they agree with specifically and where can I read their agreement?
with the sentiment that truth is more preferable than an appeal to authority, was talking about it when I said
>Truth is what we should seek, not daddy's affirmation

>That would depend on the definition
then lets use Plato's words and talk about eros and not your cucked christians. Eros has its roots in physical sexual striving and can be sublimated for the greater "good", virtue, philosophy etc. So it is not bad in itself. Just like thymos is not bad in itself, because it can be sublimated into andreia.
>By definition it avoids its relation to logos.
if you read Plato trough your christcuck paradigm
>Actually they are extremely similar
in what way?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:14:38 2021 No.17789924

>>17789846
How would you know that, unless you haven't looked deep enough into your consciousness?
I know that many other religions claim the same, but just because they do it doesn't no religion is objectively right.
And I wonder what's so shocking about that statement, when there're people who believe that your deepest moral instincts come from evolution. If that was the case, the world would be much worse right now.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:17:46 2021 No.17789944

>>17789847
>The only source for the idea of pervasive harm from childhood sexual experiences is from modern feminists in the last 50 years or so
Are coomers just intentionally disingenuous or is it some desperate unconscious attempt to protects them from guilt?
The sheer mental gymnastics you can come up with is honestly fascinating.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:20:25 2021 No.17789967 >>17788802 >Blah blah blah look just let me fuck children (((arguments)))

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:20:26 2021 No.17789968 >>17789944 Once again, where is your evidence? If harm is so common and so profound, it should be easy to come up with concrete data.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:20:58 2021 No.17789979 >>17789880 Age of consent depends on the individual. It is only wrong when a baby can't come out of the sexual act and also if the decision is not based on the right discernment of character.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:21:51 2021 No.17789992

>>17789924
What the fuck are you rambling about? Looking deep enough into my consciousness to find what? Some tales from the Middle Eastern desert?
How do you make the connection that becoming introspective can only result in us becoming Christians? Like you say, many other people live introspective lives, but they become Buddhists, Hindus or whatever their region's philosophy is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:22:15 2021 No.17789999 >>17789967 >In order to determine whether we can know anything with certainty, we first have to doubt everything we know >skipping the first rule ngmi

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:23:06 2021 No.17790009 >>17789979 Wait, isn't this sort of what Foucault is saying? Is Foucault and Christianity the new intellectual paradigm?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:23:38 2021 No.17790014 >>17789979 Okay, so God agrees that age of consent laws are bullshit and thinks that having sex with children is a crime on the same level as masturbation.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:25:18 2021 No.17790029

>>17789914
>with the sentiment that truth is more preferable than an appeal to authority, was talking about it when I said
I agree with you.

>then lets use Plato's words and talk about eros
"In general, Plato did not consider physical attraction to be a necessary part of eros. According to Plato, eros could be diverted to philosophy (inclusive of mathematical, ethical and ascetical training), rather that dissipated in sexuality, for the purpose of using erotic energy as a vehicle for the transformation of consciousness, and union with the Divine.[17] In Symposium, eros is described as a universal force that moves all things towards peace, perfection and divinity.[18] Eros himself is a "daimon", namely a creature between divinity and mortality.[19]" -Wikipedia

"The de-eroticization of the world, a companion to its disenchantment … seems to result from a combination of causes—our democratic regime and its tendencies toward leveling and self-protection, a reductionist-materialist science that inevitably interprets eros as sex, and the atmosphere generated by the death of God and of the subordinate god, Eros." -Allan Bloom

"As Aristotle expresses it, pleasure is the natural accompaniment of unimpeded activity. Pleasure, as such, is neither good nor bad, but is something positive because the effect of pleasure perfects the exercise of that activity. Even so, Aristotle emphasizes that pleasure is not to be sought for its own sake." -Google

Eros, properly speaking, seems much more so like "love" rather than "lust", in a more modern perspective. In Christianity lust is the perversion of love. You should read more Allan Bloom.

>if you read Plato trough your christcuck paradigm
Plato and Aristotle believe in order and if you do something for the wrong reason this makes you disordered. Doing something for the sake of pleasure, and not for the sake of the good is disordered. Therefore lust is disordered, because it is the pursuit of sexual pleasure for its own sake.

>in what way?
In more ways than not. Just read some Augustine (more Platonic) or Aquinas (more Aristotelian)

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:25:48 2021 No.17790034

>>17789874
Understanding that Derrida is the exact type of masturbatory douche who would use an unstated set of criteria for making judgements as he "deconstructed" concepts in his books, and then claim that "this shouldn't be understood as a method" is simply evidence of a functional, non-cultist mind.
Pro-tip: even really famous, celebrated people who all those kewl hipsters told you to read, can be full of shit, too; and this can be missed by huge swaths of people because they are also incompetent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:26:29 2021 No.17790040 >>17790014 He forgot to mention that there are marriage laws and you can't have sex outside of marriage. Also see the new testament for what Christ has to say about those who scandalize children.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:27:02 2021 No.17790046 >>17789967 It is literally the same every time

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:27:06 2021 No.17790047

>>17788539
The actual passage (History of Sexuality vol. 1 (Pantheon), pp. 31-2):

>One day in 1867, a farm hand from the village of Lapcourt, who was somewhat simple-minded, employed here then there, depending on the season, living hand-to-mouth from a little charity or in exchange for the worst sort of labor, sleeping in barns and stables, was turned in to the authorities. At the border of a field, he had obtained a few caresses from a little girl, just as he had done before and seen done by the village urchins round about him; for, at the edge of the wood, or in the ditch by the road leading to Saint-Nicolas, they would play the familiar game called "curdled milk." So he was pointed out by the girl's parents to the mayor of the village, reported by the mayor to the gendarmes, led by the gendarmes to the judge, who indicted him and turned him over first to a doctor, then to two other experts who not only wrote their report but also had it published. What is the significant thing about this story? The pettiness of it all; the fact that this everyday occurrence in the life of village sexuality, these inconsequential bucolic pleasures, could become, from a certain time, the object not only of a collective intolerance but of a judicial action, a medical intervention, a careful clinical examination, and an entire theoretical elaboration. The thing to note is that they went so far as to measure the brainpan, study the facial bone structure, and inspect for possible signs of degenerescence the anatomy of this personage who up to that moment had been an integral part of village life; that they made him talk; that they questioned him concerning his thoughts, inclinations, habits, sensations, and opinions. And then, acquitting him of any crime, they decided finally to make him into a pure object of medicine and knowledge--an object to be shut away till the end of his life in the hospital at Mareville, but also one to be made known to the world of learning through a detailed analysis. One can be fairly certain that during this same period the Lapcourt schoolmaster was instructing the little villagers to mind their language and not talk about all these things aloud. But this was undoubtedly one of the conditions enabling the institutions of knowledge and power to overlay this everyday bit of theater with their solemn discourse. So it was that our society--and it was doubtless the first in history to take such measures--assembled around these timeless gestures, these barely furtive pleasures between simple-minded adults and alert children, a whole machinery for speechifying, analyzing, and investigating.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:27:09 2021 No.17790048 >>17789999 Because your sophistry is obvious to everyone. The debate takes place while you try to chip away at everything until someone finally lets you fuck children. It's a dishonest dialog from the start.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:28:10 2021 No.17790052

>>17790047
(cont.)
>Between the licentious Englishman, who earnestly recorded for his own purposes the singular episodes of his secret life, and his contemporary, this village halfwit who would give a few pennies to the little girls for favors the older ones refused him, there was without doubt a profound connection: in any case, from one extreme to the other, sex became something to say, and to say exhaustively in accordance with deployments that were varied, but all, in their own way, compelling. Whether in the form of a subtle confession in confidence of an authoritarian interrogation, sex--be it refined or rustic--had to be put into words. A great polymorphous injunction bound the Englishman and the poor Lorrainese peasant alike. As history would have it, the latter was named Jouy.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:31:21 2021 No.17790084

>>17789904
schools for the general public will always be dogma. The majority of humankind are dogmatic thinkers. Civilization requires gigantic masses of dogmatic thinkers to function properly. Its impossible without it, and also impossible to conceive of in any other way; the bulk of the public is not capable of surmounting dogma.
When you change dogma to open-ended "big boy" thinking for general public education, the result is not better discussion, but simply confusion. "Sex bad" doesn't become "sex is complicated and has many facets," it just becomes "sex good." Nothing will EVER be "complicated" for most of humankind. It already is black and white, they are waiting to be told how. This will never change no matter how much you want it to or hold it up as an ideal. Is "sex bad," or "sex good," the truth? No, the truth is "sex is complicated." But society literally cannot handle the truth, so we fashion some purely functionalist dogma to get them to behave the way that either "we" (the elites) want, or that is most beneficial to maintaining the status quo.
Truth is not the goal of public education, the goal there is more like molding clay. Introducing truth into public education, especially in the sexual sphere, just results in OnlyFans and all the other bullshit we have going on today.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:31:48 2021 No.17790088

>>17790048
My quads say otherwise.
Also, read the thread. The evidence is on the side of being skeptical of the hysteria. All you have is superstitious hysteria based on faulty claims that have been disproved.
Stop buying into hysteria and think before you grab a pitchfork, ya dummie.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:34:03 2021 No.17790106

>>17789910
Post-structuralist literally incorporates structuralist concepts into its overall framework, it accepts these assumptions as true. Its differentiated by what it disagrees with. This makes sense since its part of the exact same fucking corollary with the exact same foundational premises.
Two ideologies, one of which is the other's direct antecedent, are "opposites" despite agreeing on so many things that they share a namesake.
Oh, ok.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:34:04 2021 No.17790107

>>17790029
>According to Plato, eros could be diverted to philosophy, ethical training rather that dissipated in sexuality, for the purpose of using erotic energy as a vehicle for the transformation of consciousness, and union with the Divine
>Pleasure, as such, is neither good nor bad, but is something positive because the effect of pleasure perfects the exercise of that activity. Even so, Aristotle emphasizes that pleasure is not to be sought for its own sake."
But thats exactly what I'm saying. It doesnt necesarily have to be sexual, because it can be sublimated, and this point is explicit in Symposium, Phaedro, Republic etc. But the primary force is what motivates the later forms and this is unthinkable in christian worldview. Imagine saying that luxuria is what drives people to God or truth.
>Plato and Aristotle believe in order and if you do something for the wrong reason this makes you disordered. Doing something for the sake of pleasure, and not for the sake of the good is disordered. Therefore lust is disordered, because it is the pursuit of sexual pleasure for its own sake.
yes, that is right and brilliantly put. Pleasure, sexual drives are bad only because they disorganize individuals, which is the worst things that can happen. And they are not bad in itself.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:36:17 2021 No.17790125

>>17790009
Not really. The sexual act in Foucault's book was not a reproductive act and was done before the confirmation through marriage. But the mentally ill guy(if that's the case. I haven't read the book) was not at fault.
>>17790014
For catholics, age of consent is mostly to guide people. It considers the average age of the first period in girls and first ejaculation in boys, but also how mature are the average boys and girls in a certain country, which can vary. So a catholic must have a good reason to break this law.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:36:21 2021 No.17790126

>>17790052
Okay, Foucault doesn't go into how this is not some "pure" sexual interaction, but is actually a financial transaction, which is in itself "disrupting" the sexual experience.
What a fucking retard, I was beginning to like the guy, but now he is brainlet.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:36:32 2021 No.17790129

>>17790034
you probably think hegel talked about thesis antithesis and synthesis too lol
>Post-structuralist
for starters, no french thinker identified with this term. It literally was created in anglosphere and has not grounds in what actually happend in french philosophy

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:37:27 2021 No.17790135

>>17790084
Except that OnlyFans is a product of an era where kids *are* told that sex is bad in school. Maybe there's a way to keep it simple without contributing to the witch hunt that's having profound harmful effects on society as a whole: "sex with unwilling people is bad."

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:40:24 2021 No.17790159

>>17790129
Then drop the term, it doesn't matter what they identified with or not. What matters is why people identify them with each other, and they do it because of theoretical and methodological links. Then they make up terms to describe that, but certainly, you are aware the naming conventions aren't "real?"
I find you, extremely pedantic and annoying. Its just a series of fake "gotchas," and you feeling smug despite not really making any dents in what I've been saying.
I used to deal with people like you on campus, all day long. I have a special level of hatred in reserve. You have ruined everything.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:42:18 2021 No.17790181

>>17790159
>and they do it because of theoretical and methodological links
which you fail to provide and jsut keep being emotional like a fucking woman. Just say exactly in what way derrida and foucault are similar you fucking retard. They even fought against each other irl. Stop reading secondary literature filtered trough burgerized academia about them.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:43:23 2021 No.17790189

It is simple really. Sex below a certain age is inherently destructive due to the fact that a child does not desire it and cannot process it. However at differing times through the puberty process children can have real sexual urges and consent to sex. It's not ubiquitous and if someone is not ready for sex they will not consent to it making it rape. The danger lies in the inherent vulnerability in pubescent teenagers that they are not as world understanding and can be manipulated into sex by older and more assertive people. This is still rape. Also the power dynamic of older and teenage people is skewed. These can happen at any age but teenagers and such are vulnerable. But at any age people can be raped. All you are doing is placing procedures of power around sex in an attempt at a general welfare when you have age of consent laws. I think age of consent legislature is good because it allows us to avoid the situations entirely of trying to determine the true nature of consent for individual young cases.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:44:17 2021 No.17790197

>>17790135
College students across the West are pummeled with "sex good" dogma, to the point that they now constitute an enforcement class for the dogma, which has no bled through to the rest of society via media stranglehold and complicity and persecution from the enforcement class.
I sat through those classes. They were not literally teaching "sex good," they were teaching "sex is complicated." The more naive among them sounded just like you, and I'm sure they really thought they were expanding the conversation.
The sadists among them knew exactly what they were doing, and now my peers, who would have been good, functional worker-normies, are now bad, dysfunctional psycho-normies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:45:57 2021 No.17790216 >>17790197 Isn't there studies that indicate that young people around college ages actually have less sex?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:46:05 2021 No.17790218
File: 97 KB, 1024x819, 1615788290087m.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17788539
Deconstructionism has it's uses

When you break it down and look at nature as this thing that can be steered any direction, you see it is naturally a heterarchy.
It is based on our will that we choose certain directions to go and grow. One that offer us broader and more resonant connections to the many possibilities we may be interested in.

Messing with kids is a big no no with Europeans.
I don't think so much with other cultures.
How we feel about it has everything to do with our conditioning, identity, and who we wish to be.

I knew a girl who was molested once.
She was very sexually active, a total ray of psychotic sunshine who always needed more and more life. More stimulation. It made life a very exciting and fast paced thing and we always had to seek out more.

I'm not justifying these things. I'd never socially advocate any type of stuff like that.
Foucault would have to define what is right, what "benefit" means, what's the standards are etc. It's all personal projection at some point
Everything is normalization, and it's really then about who's going to stop someone like him. Why do you think they're breaking white men more and more culturally? There's numerous reasons... pic rel?
Law, rule, order is really no place for an artist or someone who leans more into art than into discipline. The more artistic the more feminine. The more feminine the less rules.

Plain and simple, most leftists are not European. Euros are like the dad of the world. No one else has proven to be quality leaders in a massive cultural scale.

What is right is just about what's accepted and normalized and who's standing in your way.
You get what you put in though. There's a "trade off" to any direction.

Deconstructionism isn't wrong and can be useful, but you can deconstruct anything. It's so fucking easy to do and it's for women and fem types. Building something and unifying identity is significantly harder. The deconstructionist types want their cake but never understand what gets traded off in the process

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:47:05 2021 No.17790228 >>17790216 sorry i didnt finish that post *less sex than the same age groups did in the past

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:47:29 2021 No.17790233

>>17790107
>But the primary force is what motivates the later forms and this is unthinkable in christian worldview
"In Symposium, eros is described as a universal force that moves all things towards peace, perfection and divinity."
"...but nevertheless it is different from a purely sensual love in being the love that tends towards the sublime."
Stop inserting lustful behavior where it does not belong. Lust and love are indeed connected, but in the way I mentioned before, lust is the perversion of love.

>Pleasure, sexual drives are bad only because they disorganize individuals, which is the worst things that can happen. And they are not bad in itself.
I said lust was bad in itself. Pleasure, as I pasted from Aristotle, is neutral, and not a factor in decision making. However, when you abuse a child for the sake of your own sexual pleasure, this is disordered, because "...pleasure is not to be sought for its own sake". Lust is bad in itself because lust is seeking pleasure for its own sake.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:48:49 2021 No.17790241

>>17790181
I've read the primary sources. I've already listed out their links several times ITT. Each time I do, you just reeeeeeeeeee for six years about technicalities and bullshit. They come from the same ideological strain, even if this was not conscious on their part. I described how. You negged me about technicalities and bullshit.
>like a fucking woman.
Irony award of the year. Please leave me be, you are annoying and dumb.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:49:00 2021 No.17790242

>>17790218
>Deconstructionism isn't wrong and can be useful, but you can deconstruct anything. It's so fucking easy to do and it's for women and fem types. Building something and unifying identity is significantly harder
please read >>17789775 before claiming deconstruction is when you deconstruct the thing

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:50:36 2021 No.17790252

>>17790216
I've seen that, and they may be, although I doubt those stats (the huge increase in inceldom likely counterbalances the massive increase in whoredom) but even if its true, it doesn't change what they're being taught and the social effects of it. Even if these kids aren't having sex, they are all virtue-signaling in public about how great every form of sexual paraphilia is and how we should alter the pillars of society to reflect this fact. And they're doing that because of what they were taught at college, and what is reinforced on the internet and popular media.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:51:10 2021 No.17790258

>>17790189
>Sex below a certain age is inherently destructive due to the fact that a child does not desire it and cannot process it.
Many children also don't desire to go to school and cannot process what it means.
You're seeing sex as something separated from the experience of sex, which as a catholic, I agree. But appeals to something ideally moral doesn't make sense when coming from an atheist.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:51:41 2021 No.17790263 >>17790242 better yet; anon, don't do this, and just know that Derrida was a self-fellating faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:53:15 2021 No.17790276 >>17790242 I'll read this but I don't really need derrida to define what deconstructionism is for me. You can be contrarian against or subvert any standard. Verbally breaking down the empiricism of a concept.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:54:17 2021 No.17790283 >>17790258 >Many children also don't desire to go to school and cannot process what it means The education system is also bad for children

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:54:46 2021 No.17790288 >>17790276 Derrida would say that real deconstructionism is when deconstruct, but the goal is the promotion of insert Derrida's actual beliefs about things here

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:54:59 2021 No.17790290 >>17790276 or you can be respectful to the philosophical concept idk, your choice

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 15:57:09 2021 No.17790309

>>17790290
>be respekkful
The hallmark of a midwit. Fuck this nerd, be an iconoclast. A thinker shouldn't have weight in your eyes until you've set your critical sights on him, chewed him up, spat him out and chewed him up again until there's nothing left to spit. If his argument survives that, then he's in. If not, then he's another lying puke.
Any other approach will get you fooled, the same way so many of my "compatriots" have been.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:59:09 2021 No.17790335 >>17788539 God I wish I was the farmhand

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 15:59:32 2021 No.17790340

>>17790258
I mean to not get into the weeds here, if a child before a certain age does not desire sex then the act of performing sex with them would inherently be rape? No? Do you think children prior to an puberty can have genuine sexual urges prior to physiological maturity? Can you prove it?
> You're seeing sex as something separated from the experience of sex
I don't think I necessarily understand what you mean. I think the issue is that I am equating rape to something as traumatic and destructive, rather than a legal construct about rights and consent. Which might be wrong for me to do. I also think I might have been assuming sex is not traumatic and painful when there is consent, which could also not be true.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:00:30 2021 No.17790354

>>17790233
>"In Symposium, eros is described as a universal force that moves all things towards peace, perfection and divinity."
this is only one aspect
>"In the Symposium, Eros is recognized both as erotic love and as a phenomenon capable of inspiring courage, valor, great deeds and works, and vanquishing man's natural fear of death"
>"Before Socrates gives his speech he asks some questions of Agathon regarding the nature of love. Socrates then relates a story he was told by a wise woman called Diotima. According to her, Eros is not a god but is a spirit that mediates between humans and their objects of desire. Love itself is not wise or beautiful but is the desire for those things. Love is expressed through propagation and reproduction: either physical love or the exchanging and reproducing of ideas"
>However, when you abuse a child for the sake of your own sexual pleasure,
but if you do it to teach him virtue and understanding about sexual relations then its the opposite of chaos and provides him with understanding. Pleasure itself as a bad thing is christian cuckery and has no relation with greeks no matter how hard you cope

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:01:44 2021 No.17790363

>>17790290
Okay
Lol
First of all someone made this concept up
This concept of deconstructing, the process of removing the bricks
Second of All, the way this individual expresses it is through a cultural, language, individual, and ancestral lens
Third, philosophy is all either the projection of identity or the semantics of language
Fourth and, I would put forward, the most apt expression of the concept, would come from India and concepts like emptiness which cannot even be defined to begin with
The fucking arrogance of the philosophical community is a huge part why Europeans are having their identities broken right now
t. European

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:02:19 2021 No.17790370 >>17790309 >be an iconoclast so thats how you cope with your illiteracy now lol

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:03:23 2021 No.17790380 >>17790370 even a cursory glance at my responses on this thread would prove me to be among the most literate posters here diction alone

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:03:31 2021 No.17790381 >>17790283 There're many instances in which people are ''forced''(''compelled'' is a better word) to do something that don't like or don't understand by people who simply have more power(parents, government). Is that rape?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:04:02 2021 No.17790388

>>17789910
>Engaging with structuralism for post-structuralists would not not be engaging in the creation of new structures. Has it happened? Possibly.
you are naive here. this just, simple and sincere "possibly" is the reason why post-structuralists and structuralists go hand in hand. and you are so academic pilled you dont want to see it.

>im not the namefag

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:04:18 2021 No.17790389

>>17790258
>>17790340
Okay I think I get what you mean with the school example. I was building my statements out of the idea that rape was bad because its destructive and traumatic rather than it was a violation of individual autonomy. So I think thats where what I was saying falls apart. So maybe I am wrong here.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:05:16 2021 No.17790399 >>17790381 >people are forced to do all sorts of things. How is forcing them to have sex with my penis any different? Be aware of who you are dealing with when you see arguments like this.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:05:28 2021 No.17790402

>>17790288
Exactly. Because you can't really define what it is
I'm working under the notion that it's just either A. Removing any standard and letting the body act politics based on its conditioning (which is already what's happening and the brains just making up stories), and B. Finding any way to critique the standard that the standard (it's representatives) prove to have an Achilles heel in.

You can be contrarian against anything. Everything is a trade off and normalization based on the wants and needs of the mass of energy relative to their competency and action, and what they've conditioned to accept.
It's all bodily.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:06:21 2021 No.17790410 >>17790218 Decent take. The left hand path isn't meant for the herd, and it's basically like walking through hell, but someone's gotta do it or else the right hand path will stagnate and die due to its rigidity and never being challenged.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:06:23 2021 No.17790411 >>17790380 what I meant is that you're a philosophical illiterate. No amount of verbal knowledge will compensate for that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:07:08 2021 No.17790417 >>17790381 Violation of autonomy can be permitted depending on the outcome of the violation. Going to school will have a different outcome on life than getting held down and fucked because they are two different acts.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:07:17 2021 No.17790421

>>17790363
Further. This is part and parcel why euros are fucked rn.
Philosophy is identity is philosophy. What CAN you do based on your context and the direction you and a bunch of people want to go.
Sitting here arguing direction while everyone else ACTS

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:07:27 2021 No.17790423 >>17790380 You are quite possibly the most delusional poster I've ever seen here. Kudos.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:12:09 2021 No.17790476 >>17790411 I am literally a scholar of philosophy

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:13:15 2021 No.17790485 >>17790421 Philosophy is the enumeration of conditions and intent, while politics is an attempt to manifest these intentions as a set of conditions in the external world.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:13:43 2021 No.17790489

>>17790410
Absolutely agree
It depends on the times and the people
Too much law can stagnate us
Too much freedom can collapse us
It's an oscillation between these poles at any given time. The more we swing towards one, the more the economy of interest grows in the other.

I'm of the mind that nature produces what it needs when it needs to maintain a shifting balance based on how her children feel about the state of things.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:14:17 2021 No.17790492 >>17790423 well so far I have exhibited: >better diction than most posters ITT >better intimacy with the topics at hand than most posters ITT so you can say this to feel better despite the evidence

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:14:30 2021 No.17790495

>>17790340
>I think the issue is that I am equating rape to something as traumatic and destructive
Ok. But you must realize that you're choosing what you value here. If the sexual act itself feels good to both parties involved or even just to one, then one could say that it wasn't really a bad thing, because the ''bad'' consequencies of an action are less important than the pleasure they gave.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:15:36 2021 No.17790509

>>17790476
me too, thats why I can see trough your pseudery. Even if you read so called pomos you havent understood shit and you compensate that with appeal to common sense, moral sentiments and rhetorics. All I can suggest is to read them again, in a good faith.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:15:36 2021 No.17790510

>>17790354
>Love is expressed through propagation and reproduction: either physical love or the exchanging and reproducing of ideas"
>reproduction = physical love
The church itself says reproduction is the primary purpose for sex. It seems to me Socrates and the church are in alignment.

>but if you do it to teach him virtue and understanding about sexual relations then its the opposite of chaos and provides him with understanding
You can not and should not reproduce with a child therefore you are not expressing love in any way shape or form by having sex with a child. The other option is propagation (of ideas), which is what parents do with their children.

>Pleasure itself as a bad thing is christian cuckery and has no relation with greeks no matter how hard you cope
I literally just told you pleasure is neutral and the Catholics do not say pleasure is bad, they, as far as I know, agree with Aristotle. Seems like you're coping.

In this one post we see two examples of the similarities between the Greeks and the Christians.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:15:38 2021 No.17790511 >>17790388 don't bother with him, but you were right on the money with this >academic-pilled that's what it is. Past a certain point, academic "training" just fucks these people's brains up beyond repair.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:15:46 2021 No.17790518

>>17790354
>but if you do it to teach him virtue and understanding about sexual relations then its the opposite of chaos and provides him with understanding
Plato says this is not possible in Laws
>The friendship which occurs between opposites is terrible and fierce and seldom reciprocal amongst men, while that based on similarity is gentle and reciprocal throughout life. The kind which arises from a blend of these presents difficulties,—first, to discover what the man affected by this third kind of love really desires to obtain, and, in the next place, because the man himself is at a loss, being dragged in opposite directions by the two tendencies,—of which the one bids him to enjoy the bloom of his beloved, while the other forbids him. For he that is in love with the body [837c] and hungering after its bloom,1 as it were that of a ripening peach, urges himself on to take his fill of it, paying no respect to the disposition of the beloved; whereas he that counts bodily desire as but secondary, and puts longing looks in place of love,2 with soul lusting really for soul, regards the bodily satisfaction of the body as an outrage, and, reverently worshipping temperance, courage, nobility and wisdom, will desire to live always chastely in company with [837d] the chaste object of his love. But the love which is blended of these two kinds is that which we have described just now as third. Since, then, love has so many varieties, ought the law to prohibit them all and prevent them from existing in our midst, or shall we not plainly wish that the kind of love which belongs to virtue and desires the young to be as good as possible should exist within our State, while we shall prohibit, if possible, the other two kinds? Or what is our view, my dear Megillus?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:16:09 2021 No.17790525

>>17790381
Rape is what you define it as
It is in the masculine principle to drag others into it's direction
I could say at best, you simply put something competent and generative forward and let people decide if they want to insert the program
But even this can be manipulated by creating some volatile insecure environment to contrast it.

This r word is just a word

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:18:31 2021 No.17790548 >>17790399 I was only attacking the idea that compelling a more innocent and ignorant person to do something is not bad. >>17790417 Seeing the consequencies of an action as the basis of how it is good or evil is only an arbitrary choice.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:19:24 2021 No.17790557

>>17790509
I "compensate" with appeals to common sense, moral sentiments and rhetorics? Lmao, perhaps you just don't understand my methods, which is precisely why you are the way you are and say the things you say.
Consider that a man of the intellectual cloth who wants to affect reality will need to employ non-intellectual methods to do so.
I hate pedophiles. My reasons are a bit more nuanced, jargon-heavy and academic than the public's, but they're not convincing to the public. So, rhetoric works fine. ;)
For thousands of years, western philosophers wrote books for other philosophers to read and got little to nothing done, beyond the refinement of logic to be better utilized as a tool by the elite classes.
Not until Nietzsche did anyone ever cause them to doubt; did anyone ever point out "nobody is listening to you!"
And they still call him crazy today, while echoing across the chamber, dumbfounded by their own practical, social impotence.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:20:51 2021 No.17790578

>>17790548
>I was only attacking the idea that compelling a more innocent and ignorant person to do something is not bad.
You can do this shit all day with words
It's like saying getting an ear piercing and cutting off your nose are both transhumanist

There's a difference between sending a kid off the boarding school and convincing them to engage in acts of sex with you. You are arguing language semantics for the most part.

Euros have no tolerance for fucking with children.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:23:54 2021 No.17790605 >people still buy into Habermas's spook of french philosophers

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:25:37 2021 No.17790612

>>17790510
>I literally just told you pleasure is neutral and the Catholics do not say pleasure is bad
then what are we talking about. I asked if pleasure/desire is bad in itself or because of its consequences, you said in itself, then all of the examples that you provide show that Plato, Aristotle and christians talk about pleasure and eros being bad when when it disorganizes, harms the individual etc. and not bad in itself.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:27:15 2021 No.17790629

>>17790421
Also, anon, I thought I should be more precise since I'm being accused of pseudery here: philosophy's official, standard definition is philo- -sophia, "the love of wisdom." but if you read most philosophers, you'd never get that idea, seeing as they're so fucking retarded.

I like my definition better because I think it accounts for the problem you've described. A philosophy can be an engine, or a fuel, for action, but it is not an action itself. Philosophers aren't actors by default and rarely become actors in practice. There are a number of reasons for this, but academicfags worship thinkers too much without taking proper stock of this.
All they do is write. Its not useless, but it is what it is. Other men take these ideas and run with them, they act, they engage in "politics" because of their "philosophy."

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:27:24 2021 No.17790632 >>17790518 Plato is not an authority on adult-child sex. His notion of desire that can be sublimated for the greater good is what interests me, thats all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:27:49 2021 No.17790640 things just happen the rest is opinion who do you want to be what can you do

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:28:23 2021 No.17790648 >>17790605 spook? Its in Foucault's own book, fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:29:14 2021 No.17790655 >>17790557 you method is seething and appealing to social mob lol, what an intellectual

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:29:21 2021 No.17790657

>>17790578
>It's like saying getting an ear piercing and cutting off your nose are both transhumanist
Why do you think debates about morailty are much more frequent than debates about the what is transhumanism or not? Seems like humans are a lot less sure about what is truly good and evil than what is transumanism and what is not.
>There's a difference between sending a kid off the boarding school and convincing them to engage in acts of sex with you
Sometimes there isn't.
Anyway, you are just choosing that losing innocence and other consequencies of child sex is a bad thing while others don't, and you can't prove them wrong.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:30:17 2021 No.17790661

>>17790557
You're echoing the sentiments of the mob, using the exact same rhetoric and appeals to 'common sense' (the opinion of you and the mob being baselessly assumed to be common sense) and the virtue signalling moralfaggotry of an SJW while claiming to be a turbo-genius who's going to change everything (again, while echoing the current sentiments of the mob).
God I hope you're baiting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:31:04 2021 No.17790669 >>17789214 leftists are truly disgusting.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:33:39 2021 No.17790692

>>17790629
>A philosophy can be an engine, or a fuel, for action, but it is not an action itself.
Fair enough but all thought is creative and programs you to some depth.
Flirting with it still bakes into your action

Monitor yourself. Your current thoughts and feelings.
Then go find yourself immersed in some new philosophy. As you read It, assume it's POV is 100% "right". Validate all aspects of it and take it as truth. Don't avoid any of it or say "no" to any of it. Completely drink it in. Energize it. Muse on it.
Then go act.
Monitor your behavior and relationship with reality.
It will have changed.

The problem with knowing what you guys all know through this "philosophy tm" is that you rarely see outside this language or lens of perception.
Different approach or language on the same topic will give you different inSIGHT

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:34:15 2021 No.17790699

>>17790632
I actually think Plato and Aristotle were mostly retarded when it comes to their social ideas. Well, okay, that's not true; I think they are overly celebrated, overly praised.
But, Plato's ideas about sublimation are among his best, they are so obviously true. Our animal nature is at odds with our social nature, but simply repressing one ensures the worsened expression of the other. By sublimating rather than repressing, one negates this possibility and actually produces a better outcome for both society and individual.
The irony is that modern post-whateverthefuck (who can keep up) leftists actually use a similar idea to justify their insane social proposals (don't jail drug addicts, give them an outlet/space for doing drugs; don't outlaw sexual paraphilia, embrace it so that there are outlets, etc.) but what they fail to recognize is that their version of "providing outlets," is usually just the undesired consequence itself and not a sublimated outlet.
I.e., a sublimated outlet for sexual paraphilias would be, perhaps, regulated pornography access or the tolerance of private, regulated sex clubs. It would be the toleration of these practices in private, as a sublimated outlet for these people, so that they can still abide by the code of conduct agreed upon in public without breaking apart.
It wouldn't be saying fuck it and just letting them do this shit in the streets.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:35:43 2021 No.17790711

>>17790692
I agree with all of that, it is sort of what I was saying, but I suppose a "political actor" in my scheme would be someone who is consciously employing a philosophy. What you are saying is that if you internalize any philosophy unconsciously, it will affect your actions unconsciously, too.
And, while this is much harder to judge, I would tend to agree.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:37:26 2021 No.17790728

>>17790657
If I define it as bad then it is bad. That's what matters.
Semantics and arguing this is just arguing what program and identity I wish to harbor.
I choose an identity that doesn't fuck children because I wish to see a world where children aren't molested.
I've seen enough results of that to know it is a direction I wish to not take, therefore I'll act to prevent it.

However you wish to semantically defend child molestation is really your bid
And if I saw you engaging in the practice I wouldn't for one second hesitate, so no 4chan post is going to weasel that out of me.

Everyone's trying so desperately to break European soul.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:37:29 2021 No.17790731

>>17790612
>I asked if pleasure/desire is bad in itself or because of its consequences
>>17789659
Literally wrong, you asked about LUST, not pleasure/desire.

>then all of the examples that you provide show that Plato, Aristotle and Christians talk about pleasure and eros being bad when when it disorganizes, harms the individual etc. and not bad in itself.

>pleasure and eros
The two are different things.

>being bad when when it disorganizes
Eros/Love is good. When it is perverted it becomes lust, and is bad and disordered, as I have demonstrated earlier. It is not the disordering agent (that would be the will of the decision maker), it is the disorder itself.

>then what are we talking about.
I said that the desire of the person touching the child is what makes it either okay or not okay. Whereas you were saying what difference does it make its just flesh touching flesh and something about trauma.

For example the desire of the doctor is to heal, and thus of course it is a welcome and good touch regardless of where on the body. On the other hand, I have demonstrated that sexual activity with a child is lustful (from your own quotes), and lust is bad in its own right as I have also demonstrated.

None of that involved trauma or awareness on the part of the child, yet demonstrates the disorder and evil within sexual acts towards that child.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 16:38:54 2021 No.17790745

>>17790655
That is partially the method but it is not an intellectual method
As I said, I am an intellectual employing non-intellectual methods.

>>17790661
Common sense is intellectually defensible, and it should be defended more often. Intellectual midwits are some of the most insufferable fucks walking the face of the Earth, but the commoners don't have the needed ammunition against you people. You speak in a language they don't know how to contend with; you do it BADLY, but how could I, as an American, ever know if a Chinese man was speaking Mandarin BADLY? I don't know the language, but his boss may refer to his dialect as that of a common yokel's; he knows the language.

Common sense is, largely, a function of biological determinism. It is, in a very real way, "God's wisdom." The people are stupid because they don't know the why or the how, but not because they believe in common, cross-cultural universals.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:40:10 2021 No.17790763

>>17790340
>if a child before a certain age does not desire sex then the act of performing sex with them would inherently be rape?
There's two problems here. The first is assuming that children *can't* want sex; there are plenty anecdotes of people wanting to engage in sexual activities as children, I can provide you with some sources if you're genuinely interested. The second is this common nonsequitur that goes like this:
>Sex is harmful for children because adult appendages don't fit in immature orifices
>All genital touching is sex
>Because touching genitals is sex and sex is harmful, performing cunnilingus on a child is harmful
In general, people aren't interested in injuring their lovers, and pedophiles in particular, while they might fantasize about penetrative intercourse, in practice are overwhelmingly more likely to engage only in non-penetrative acts. While there's fucked up psycopaths out there who don't give a shit about anyone but themselves, these people don't really get stopped just by making things illegal.

>I think the issue is that I am equating rape to something as traumatic and destructive, rather than a legal construct about rights and consent.
So when we're talking about rape in the sense of violent, coerced sex, I think just about everyone everywhere will agree that rape is bad. But in this context, we're talking about "statutory rape," where the actual willingness of the "victim" isn't considered because it's not whether they consented that's at issue, but whether they have the legal capacity to consent. No one is talking about legalizing violent rape, we're talking about removing or modifying the laws that deny minors the ability to legally consent to sex.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:42:02 2021 No.17790786 >>17790088 We still see you, child molester.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:42:28 2021 No.17790791 File: 73 KB, 736x490, bf7cbaedd8b2fb5f0239607d3f56e94a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:44:12 2021 No.17790810

>>17790728
>If I define it as bad then it is bad. That's what matters.
No, it simply isn't. You can just invent a concept and claim that this concept is real. You can only say that you're convinced that it is ''bad'' based on whatever you choose to care or value, but that you don't truly know what ''bad'' is.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:47:18 2021 No.17790840

>>17790810
>No, it simply isn't.
Yes it simply is
If all is subjective and relative to imposition of will, then if I say it's bad it's bad, and you are merely trying to impose your will over my own

People trash on colonization but it's really just one over another.
Good luck on spreading your campaign of normalizing child molestation though
Suppose I'll see you on the battlefield

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:49:00 2021 No.17790854 >>17790840 Chad response to relativists.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:49:14 2021 No.17790859

>>17790745
Using your own premise we should go with instinct, which is have sex when your instincts (body) tells you and not let dipshit pseuds (like you) tell us when and to not trust artificial conditioning (like laws and social stigma).
Your own premise advocates what you claim to be against.
Common sense up until very recently was that it was cool to marry 9 year olds. Which common sense do we trust? According to you, we should just blindly trust you, because you're right. Why are you right and what evidence do you have? Common sense, of course.
Your argument is basically "I'm right because I think I'm right"
You're a dipshit.
>>17790786
Thought police do not belong on 4chan.
What's so irritating is that you idiots value punishing child molesters more than you do protecting children. You, while good intentioned (at least you claim to be), are accomplishing the opposite.
Your hysteria surrounding sex abuse only makes the situation worse for everyone since it's based largely in myth and hysteria.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:54:19 2021 No.17790913

>The two are different things.
you yourself cited aristotle on pleasure and plato on eros in the same comment so I took that you liken them, lets not talk about pleasure then
>Literally wrong, you asked about LUST, not pleasure/desire.
but I understand lust as a sexual desire. Greeks and Plato understood it the same. Lust is eros. And eros can be used for many things. Just because sexual drive plays a role when you interact with a minor does not make the situation bad. That was my point. Since it can be used to teach the child (a practice common among greek elite). Now you say that sexual desire is itself chaos and bad and whatever. Okay, then you cant see how a child-adult sexual relationship could be good. Is that it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:55:25 2021 No.17790919 >>17790731 >>17790913 meant for

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:55:37 2021 No.17790923 [DELETED]

>>17790840
So you're combating subjectivety with more subjectivety?
I'm a catholic so I'm obviously not in favour of moral relativism. I'm just here to point out the flaws in the idea that you can be an atheist and in be objectively moral but also to make other catholics realize that their morality shouldn't come from ''common sense'' and their feelings only.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:57:20 2021 No.17790940

>>17790859
>Thought police do not belong on 4chan
Battling ideas is part of the environment.
We still see you.
>you idiots value punishing child molesters more than you do protecting children.
Patently false
>Your hysteria surrounding sex abuse only makes the situation worse
Words riding on nothing
>based largely in myth
Child molestation is not based on myth. Are you aware of the thread you're In?
>hysteria
Yes I'm fine with hysterics surrounding even the prospect of child molestation

Is this really how you want to spend your life? In some moral argument attempting to validate child sex abuse?
You should really talk to people who worked in the Hollywood industry and ask them if they think their molesters benefited their lives.
Get a grip.
If you want attention on the internet just say so.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 16:57:47 2021 No.17790943

>>17790840
So you're combating subjectivety with more subjectivety?
I'm a catholic so I'm obviously not in favour of moral relativism. I'm just here to point out the flaws in the idea that you can be an atheist and be objectively moral but also to make other catholics realize that their morality shouldn't come from ''common sense'' and their feelings only.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:03:42 2021 No.17791006

>>17790940
Most people who experience abuse as a child didn't even think much of it at the time. Part of the damage that comes from the abuse is the attitude that it's "literally the worst thing ever" so they feel ashamed that they either didn't think much of it or actually enjoyed it. I never said it was entirely benign, just that the cultural hysteria surrounding it actually makes it worse for the abused since they feel a disconnect in the message and the reality. They think there's something wrong with them rather than with the myth.
It also creates a situation where the abuser is more likely to kill the child rather than let them live to tell the tale. What would you prefer? Being raped then killed, or just raped? Your vitriolic need to punish has overridden your rationale and your protection of the child. You're approaching it with the fervour and zealotry of a frothy mouthed fanatic. That does not bring good results.
Your virtue signalling helps no one but yourself.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 17:05:19 2021 No.17791022

>>17790859
>Your own premise advocates what you claim to be against.
Does it, now? Let's look at your example of "common sense."
>have sex when your instincts tell you to, which is when you are fertile biologically.
I see why you started there, but why did you stop?
>Another one of our instincts is survival, and among some human groups, there is an instinctual propensity toward long-term thriving/delayed gratification, as well.
As humans develop consumer economies (as is within their instincts), they develop social strata to distribute resources, because there is not enough to go around, and some people do more valuable/harder work than others.
As this continues, people observe that the people who have sex often and with multiple partners, are more likely to have children out of wedlock. Children born out of wedlock tend to fare worse in life, and if this goes on unrestrained, these surplus children will become a huge drain on resources. So, utilizing common sense, traditions regarding marriage, and the birthing of children within the confines of those marriages, became popular throughout most of the world. As a method of preserving that institution, another common sense imposition was to regulate public displays of sexuality, because it would increase the temptation to infidelity.
You stop at "DUR MY BODY FEEL GOOD LIKE IT WANT SEX TIME SO NOW SHOULD BE SEX TIME AND IF BAD MAN SAY NO SEX TIME THAT JUST BECAUSE HE BAD MAN AND NOT GOOD MAN."
Why do you assume that, for most of humanity and for our ancestors, this was "common sense?"
Our "arbitrary" institutions are the result of centuries of the application of biologically-informed common sense, but biological instinct goes beyond literal reptilian drives.
You're a fucking ape. Don't project that on to the rest.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 17:06:28 2021 No.17791031

>>17790940
>Thought police do not belong on 4chan
is the gayest cope ever lmao. Who was calling for censorship? We just told you that you're a fucking pedo or pedo apologist, we hate you, and then called you a gaylord. Cry moar, that's not thot police.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:08:20 2021 No.17791042

>>17790943
Their feelings on the matter come down to background conditioning and reflect the world they wish to see.

It's all a choice about identity and reflective environment
When you begin to enable or accept an idea you begin to normalize it. Do you really expect them to entertain these ideas for no reason
Your arguments are just +1 child molesters and leads me to deduce you've flirted with the idea.
What is your relationship with sexuality that something like this is questionable.
There is absolutely no "togetherness" about having sex with someone that hasn't shape themselves in any way. It is pure and unequivocal exploitation.

I'm beginning to think you're just an op or a shill.
People who have been molested almost always end up fucking like crazy as they get older, and most the ones I've known have got into drug abuse. Suicide rates are higher than average. Do you want to discuss the merits of drug addiction and suicide to escape pain as well?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:09:00 2021 No.17791045

>>17791022
>You stop at "DUR MY BODY FEEL GOOD LIKE IT WANT SEX TIME SO NOW SHOULD BE SEX TIME AND IF BAD MAN SAY NO SEX TIME THAT JUST BECAUSE HE BAD MAN AND NOT GOOD MAN."
Pretty much sums up this entire thread and post-modern philosophers at large. Based.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:09:29 2021 No.17791050 >>17791006 A girl getting a penis in her vagina before she is menstruating will seriously hurt her.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:10:09 2021 No.17791054

>>17791006
>Part of the damage that comes from the abuse is the attitude that it's "literally the worst thing ever"
Give me a fucking break
That could never be deduced and is such a completely massive leap

It sounds more like you projecting rationale to justify your own impulses.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 17:11:22 2021 No.17791064 File: 9 KB, 252x233, GodSpeed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17791045 it really does, doesn't it? I really am based, aren't I?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:12:17 2021 No.17791075 >>17791054 I'm not that anon, but read The Trauma Myth retard

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:13:43 2021 No.17791084 >>17791042 >Their feelings on the matter come down to background conditioning and reflect the world they wish to see. and yours ins't? Everything you've wrote I already addressed.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:13:45 2021 No.17791085

>>17791006
>It also creates a situation where the abuser is more likely to kill the child rather than let them live to tell the tale. What would you prefer? Being raped then killed, or just raped? Your vitriolic need to punish has overridden your rationale and your protection of the child.
This is probably one of the most manipulative posts I've ever read on this site
>normalize child rape or the child will be murdered. Your unwillingness to normalize the child rape is why the child died. You're evil and vitriolic
What a disgusting and manipulative way to discuss ideas
Another weasel trying to rationalize exploitation.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:13:54 2021 No.17791088

>>17790913
>but I understand lust as a sexual desire
different definitions were used which explains the confusion.

>Greeks and Plato understood it the same.
>lust = sexual desire = eros
It was literally demonstrated that the above is an incorrect understanding of eros:

"Its main characteristic is permanent aspiration and desire. Even when it seems to give, eros continues to be a "desire to possess", but nevertheless it is different from a purely sensual love in being the love that tends towards the sublime."
>"...it is different from a purely sensual love..."
>"Love is expressed through propagation and reproduction: either physical love or the exchanging and reproducing of ideas"
>"...propagation and reproduction..."
>"In Symposium, eros is described as a universal force that moves all things towards peace, perfection and divinity."

The only place I see sex fitting in here is in reproduction, and in the case of reproduction the sexual pleasure is not the point, but rather the reproduction. The pleasure is just there, just like Aristotle says... neutral.

>Just because sexual drive plays a role when you interact with a minor does not make the situation bad.
I demonstrated earlier based on the content you cited, why sexual drive can not play a role when you interact with a minor, while remaining a good interaction.
See:>>17790510

>Since it can be used to teach the child (a practice common among greek elite).
Sir, Socrates explicitly condemned this practice and denied it himself when a young man offered himself (I believe this was explained in the Symposium) - and he instead opted for the proper expression of love, which is propagation (of ideas).

>Now you say that sexual desire is itself chaos and bad and whatever
I said MY definition of lust is itself disordered, that definition being: "Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure."

>Okay, then you cant see how a child-adult sexual relationship could be good. Is that it?
Me and Socrates (and the Christians) both.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:14:44 2021 No.17791098

>>17791050
That happens in very few cases. Obviously when there is bodily harm involved it's far more traumatic, but as soon as anyone even tries to talk about this subject without just virtue signalling about how "it's the worst thing ever" they get shut down and no discussion can be had. It's insufferable since you're not even entertaining the idea that you might be wrong.
Most shit that people believe dogmatically to be right is wrong. No one is immune to this fact.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:16:05 2021 No.17791104 File: 94 KB, 768x768, 1615341801948.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17791045

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:16:56 2021 No.17791114 >>17791042 >>17791084 ok, I may have made a mistake. I assumed that ''condicioning'' is something you think is bad.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:17:54 2021 No.17791121

>>17791084
Hence why I said it's all imposition of will and I won't when it comes to child molesters
If I wouldn't let it happen to my own kids I wouldn't let it happen to others

>sure environment, do whatever you want with my kid and tell them it's okay
I exist

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:18:55 2021 No.17791127

>>17791104
What goes on in here and in the intellectual environment as a whole is even worse than that image. It’s the addict trying to convince everyone that there is nothing wrong with what he’s doing and that anyone who questions it is a “repressed neurotic”.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:21:19 2021 No.17791144 >>17791098 >Most shit that people believe dogmatically to be right is wrong. So now youre claiming moral empiricism? Can a child consent to sex? Once the disincentive to act in a certain way is removed, it's open season for exploiters.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:25:20 2021 No.17791168

>>17791088
>It was literally demonstrated that the above is an incorrect understanding of eros:
but you ignore my excerpts:
>"In the Symposium, Eros is recognized both as erotic love and as a phenomenon capable of inspiring courage, valor, great deeds and works, and vanquishing man's natural fear of death"
>"Before Socrates gives his speech he asks some questions of Agathon regarding the nature of love. Socrates then relates a story he was told by a wise woman called Diotima. According to her, Eros is not a god but is a spirit that mediates between humans and their objects of desire. Love itself is not wise or beautiful but is the desire for those things. Love is expressed through propagation and reproduction: either physical love or the exchanging and reproducing of ideas"
Plato's idea of Eros is not limited to sexual desire, but can mean it also. You just quote those parts, which accent the sublimated Eros. Its obvious that Plato wants to keep Eros as primal force in Phaedro and Republic, which is then subordinated to logos, the interpretation does get murkier in Symposium.
>I demonstrated earlier based on the content you cited,
you just said love plays no role in sex with minors, which is an assumption that has no ground. If love can play a role in sexual relations with other adult you'd have to specify why they cant in relation to the child. Even if there is no love, there can be virtues, learning etc. Which makes it sublimated. Also, there is nothing wrong with pleasure for the sake of pleasure, since children want it.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:26:04 2021 No.17791173

>>17791022
>polygamy and gratification are bad
You're arguing against an idea in your head of lefties instead of addressing what I'm saying. You're confusing what I'm saying with polygamy and unrestrained gratification of urges. That's not what I'm saying.
>Why do you assume that, for most of humanity and for our ancestors, this was "common sense?"
Because that is what they did. For countless millennia people were fucking during/after puberty. They still do it now. Do you not remember high school? This is only a recent phenomena due to feminism that the age of consent is so high. Is their reasoning of giving the girl a chance to go to college instead of being married off reasonable? Sure, but it isn't necessarily an objective evil to be married at 12. This is only a recent phenomena we've adopted because feminists wanted to give girls a chance in the workplace rather than having them be stay at home mothers/wives.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:26:59 2021 No.17791182

>>17791127
Everything is personal projection
When you sit back and view everyone as not having a debate about ideas, but instead projecting their own internalization, you really get a feel for the type of person.

Dgmw some people just want to see if they can subvert a standard
Some people are just looking for communication
Some people are here for entertainment

But everything in some fashion is a projection of the selfs internalized belief system.

Spaces like these aren't so much a discussion about ideas for intellectual growth. They're now political battlefields about normalizing certain behaviors that the individual has normalized.
And yes identity in the modern day is more a result of addiction than it is things like abilities, passion, growth, etc.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:28:08 2021 No.17791187

>>17791144
I never said any of that. Only that the data indicates that much of this is hysteria rather than anything based in reality.
I never said we should legalize child molestation, only that things have become so hysterical surrounding the crime that it's only made things worse.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:31:19 2021 No.17791209 >>17791182 Most people are also full of shit.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:35:39 2021 No.17791235

>>17791173
>For countless millennia people were fucking during/after puberty
You're such a disingenuous, manipulative person.
I can absolutely tell you're a groomer.

In a European canon, this was always coupled with marriage if it wasn't during times of pillaging and war (which was acknowledged as rape).

Way back before we developed any type of civilization or standards, rape was just something that happened. It wasn't bad or awful or horrific, it just happened. Welp gonna go rape that female over there. It wasn't traumatic for the female. She just accepted the rape because that's just what was normalized.
It's not "bad", it's just those dang feminism standards.

We're self identifying as a species you midwit molestation apologist. The bulk of us maintain that we don't want to normalize exploiting fucking children.
Again
There is NO TOGERTHERNESS about having sex with a barely formed child.

This is what happen when you let men get weak in your society. They get envious and seek to project this inferiority over something which can easily be controlled.
You cannot both love and exploit something, nd a child cannot ever consent.

You can't come to grips with your own impulses.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:37:32 2021 No.17791252 >>17791187 How many times do I have to say anything can be normalized It doesn't mean it's worth normalizing

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:40:31 2021 No.17791283

>>17791168
>but you ignore my excerpts
The only one I ignored was:
>"In the Symposium, Eros is recognized both as erotic love..."
I used the other one because it clearly demonstrates why I am correct. I am confused about the above excerpt because "erotic love" in a Platonic sense is very different from erotic love in a modern sense. That is up to you to demonstrate.

>Its obvious that Plato wants to keep Eros as primal force in Phaedrus and Republic, which is then subordinated to logos
"Its main characteristic is permanent aspiration and desire." It makes sense that it ought to be subordinated to logos because desire alone can be either good or bad. In this way I think I was off base: love in the Christian sense is not exactly the same as eros. Nonetheless, when it is subordinated to logos the end result is - "...the object of eros is beauty, and the greatest beauty is eternal, whereas physical beauty is in no way eternal."

In short - someone who is both erotic and subservient to logos will desire God. Someone who is erotic and not subservient to logos will crave bodies.

>you just said love plays no role in sex with minors, which is an assumption that has no ground
>If love can play a role in sexual relations with other adult you'd have to specify why they cant in relation to the child
It has ground because you yourself provided the two ways in which love is expressed: reproduction and propagation. Okay, so you think that the good choice to express love to a child is by reproduction????? Or, is it actually what Socrates literally does, which is propagation.

With an adult you can both reproduce and propagate.

>Also, there is nothing wrong with pleasure for the sake of pleasure
Yes there is, read Plato and Aristotle.

>since children want it.
Why are the desires of children, who do not contain the capacity to reason, relevant when talking about what is right or wrong?

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:42:57 2021 No.17791300

>>17791235
>You can't come to grips with your own impulses.
>You're such a disingenuous, manipulative person.
>I can absolutely tell you're a groomer.
>They get envious and seek to project this inferiority over something which can easily be controlled
I can say the same back to you that you cannot restrain your impulse to go with the herd, demonize the 'other' and virtue signal. You are unrestrained in your ability to rein yourself in and consider things more rationally and without dogmatic belief and agreement with the herd.
You're taking what I say to an extreme I don't mean because you can't get past your NPC coding to demonize.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:45:14 2021 No.17791319

>>17791252
I never said it should be normalized.
If I say that maybe the SJWs are going a little too far with the racism hysteria does that mean that I'm saying racism is okay?
Just because I said one extreme is too extreme, that doesn't mean I'm saying we adopt the inverse extreme.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:46:08 2021 No.17791330
File: 85 KB, 643x372, huxley on coomers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17791182
>Spaces like these aren't so much a discussion about ideas for intellectual growth. They're now political battlefields about normalizing certain behaviors that the individual has normalized.
Right. Most people want their worldview to become the official narrative because they genuinely believe it to be the Truth. The problem with coomers, however, is that their entire worldview is nothing but a rationalization of their own desires/passions. They are not interested in the True and the Good; they are interested in their coom.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:46:12 2021 No.17791331 >>17791300 Pedos get the bullet

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:46:23 2021 No.17791334 I would like to take a moment to rejoice that pedophilia will never be accepted and that disgusting pedophiles and their apologists will always be labelled as the disgusting vermin that they are your very existence is repulsive

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 17:47:14 2021 No.17791339

>>17791173
My argument did not bar polygamy, or gratification. It argued for the institution of *marriage,* not monogamy, and for restraint. Islam, for example, preaches both, for similar common sense reasons regarding the preservation of society. But, they are polygamous.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:51:40 2021 No.17791388 >>17791300 >demonize the other boohoo, won't anyone think of the poor pederasts? you're barely even human to most normal people

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:53:38 2021 No.17791411 >>17791339 The faith founded by the guy with multiple child brides. One who was 6. Cool.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 17:54:16 2021 No.17791416

>>17791173
The age of consent being high is also one argument, which I have more flexibility toward, but I would argue that the AOC should be 16-21 still. What I am railing against specifically is the notion that common sense does not make a good justification for an idea. It certainly does if one understands what it actually is, how it shapes events and lead us here.
I believe that having a woman be able to choose is probably reasonable, because the prior custom assumed ownership over their person. I am anti-slavery as an ethos.
However, today is merely slavery of another sort, because this lifestyle is not merely available to women, but imposed upon them by a variety of media-oriented stimuli and real social policing mechanisms. In short, today's women are not organic manifestations.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:55:04 2021 No.17791422 File: 5 KB, 143x132, 1609832627266.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw coomers and pedos will NEVER recover from this thread.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:56:03 2021 No.17791431

>>17791283
You take my citations of Plato as my own position. My own position is different from Plato. For him, desire was only good when it.... well... was aimed at the Good and the Beauty. Or at the sex with the intent of reproduction. I think its a narrow idea of the Good. But I understand why Plato would use it, since he wanted to build the society according to the philosophical worldview. I think that he desire without an aim can be Good, since it is no longer attached to anything else and is self-sufficient. Reproduction is base and contemplation is philosophical. We should not be philosophical nor base when it comes to sex (or sometimes, why not). Thats why pleasure is good on its own. But it can also provide the child with symbolization of sex, which is also good.
>Why are the desires of children, who do not contain the capacity to reason, relevant when talking about what is right or wrong?
it is relevant to the question of how we should regulate adult-child relations. They lack the reason, but they should be provided with the tools for it.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 17:56:27 2021 No.17791434

>>17791411
Well yeah, Islam's view of "agency" is incredibly backward in some areas today, but especially back then, with the burden of blame being almost entirely focused upon the woman as an inferior. I also don't find polygamy to be a superior marital structure. However, flawed as polygamy and Islamic "chastity" may be, they were functional institutions for upholding some form of social order.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:57:30 2021 No.17791446 >>17791422 idk, all pedos seem to be cool and collected, whereas anti pedos itt are seething and moralfagging

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:58:15 2021 No.17791455 File: 185 KB, 512x467, 1467323228318.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17791446 >all pedos seem to be cool and collected

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 17:59:59 2021 No.17791469

>>17791300
>You're taking what I say to an extreme I don't mean because you can't get past your NPC coding to demonize.
Liberalism is stretched itself far enough. Normalizing and tolerating child molestation is another notch on the belt.
I would ugre you to communicate with people whom have actually been abused.
And again, when you remove disincentive, you create incentive for those who are pure impulse with no code to do whatever they feel like.
Financial benefit to single mothers having loads of kids? Tons of single mother babies.
Saying immigrants can come in and will get welfare? Tons if immigrants who coast on government handouts

Normalizing everything isn't the answer. Look at the behavioral results of those whom were molested, even without hysterics.
Prone to extreme behavior and rampant promiscuity. Less stable relationships.

This is a complete shill post. I'm sure you believe what you've said but it's a continual spiral into breaking any sort of stability in family and thus societal life. Everyone becomes a commodities impulse and those whom design the environment reign over what does or doesn't happen

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:00:37 2021 No.17791476 >>17791446 >all pedos seem to be cool and collected t. totally not a pedo

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:05:03 2021 No.17791522 >>17791476 Oh no anon don’t be prejudiced. He is clearly a completely unbiased and sensible onlooker.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:07:08 2021 No.17791541

>>17791469
>Liberalism is stretched itself far enough
Your scope of history is extremely shortsighted
>Normalizing and tolerating child molestation is another notch on the belt
It's because of recent changes (liberalism) that you take this dogmatic stance.
It's strange and ironic that every anti-"""""pedo""""" poster takes the stance because of conservatism (so they claim) when in reality the current dogma on the issue is all liberal dogma.
>Normalizing everything isn't the answer
Never said to normalize. For the millionth time.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:13:11 2021 No.17791586

>>17791431
>You take my citations of Plato as my own position.
You are telling me what Plato says, and I correct your interpretation using both my excerpts and your own.

>I think its a narrow idea of the Good
>I think that he desire without an aim can be Good, since it is no longer attached to anything else and is self-sufficient
>We should not be philosophical nor base when it comes to sex (or sometimes, why not).
>Thats why pleasure is good on its own. But it can also provide the child with symbolization of sex, which is also good.
First of all, you are clearly demonstrating that you do not agree with Plato, despite saying Plato agrees with you:
>>17789802
Well, based on the above we now both know you and Plato are in no way in agreement.

Having said that you made a lot of (very revealing) statements about your personal beliefs there, all of which require substantial support. I don't really want to hear your support because to me they seem to be extremely shallow and unimpressive beliefs.

>Reproduction is base
He does not say that, and I do not say that. Reproduction is a part of life, and according to Socrates, a way to express love, at least when it is subservient to logos (meaning you cant reproduce like a crazed ape).

>it is relevant to the question of how we should regulate adult-child relations
No, because children lack the capacity to reason. It does not matter what they want, it is unreasonable and therefore they do as they are told by their reasonable elders.

>They lack the reason, but they should be provided with the tools for it.
It comes as they grow and also through propagation, not through pleasuring yourself on them.

The main thing is this - I have now demonstrated to you from a Platonic (per your request, non Christian) perspective, why it is that sec with kids is bad. You disagree with Plato, okay, but you know a good case now from a man who you consider intelligent.

The truth is I consider you disgusting and clearly I have good reason for that opinion. You got messed up by a corrupted academia, and I am sorry about that. If you live out your poorly thought through beliefs you will be handled accordingly.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:23:52 2021 No.17791644

>>17791541
>>Normalizing everything isn't the answer
>Never said to normalize. For the millionth time
You are though

>what happened to you is okay
>what happened to me is okay

Or

>what happened to you is not okay
>what happened to me is not okay

Choose one

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:32:32 2021 No.17791696

>>17791586
>despite saying Plato agrees with you
you dont understand me. I agree with Plato to the extent that eros can be sublimated for something else and is not bad in itself, which you posited at the beginning. Now to what aim it can be sublimated I and Plato we differ. Christianity mostly views carnal desires in itself as base and bad, unless they are aimed at reproduction. I dont think there are other alternatives in christianity.
>Reproduction is a part of life
it is base as in it is immanent as opposed to transcended (idea of the Good), it can be sublimated though, then of course it becomes something else (trought marriage rituals etc).
>No, because children lack the capacity to reason.
and philosophers could provide them with means to reason, since it inevitabl requires a certain paideia. My idea was that the current paideia of sexuality views adult-child sex as wrong and this idea harms children (The Trauma Myth). Teaching them about sex would revert this.
>It comes as they grow and also through propagation not through pleasuring yourself on them
why not both? greek elites would not oppose me on this point. Their whole society was grounded in pedophiliac relationships between mentor and the student
>You disagree with Plato
nowhere did I claim that for Plato sex with kids is good. It's clearly not. And he says this in Symposium, Phaedro and Law explicitly.
>The truth is I consider you disgusting and clearly I have good reason for that opinion
I think you're intelligent, but you lack individual thinking. Study other cultures and how they regulate sex. Study ancient greek, renaissance, rome sexual culture. There might be alternatives to the one we currently have. Also, read The Trauma Myth. Children become traumatic mainly because of culture. People invest too much into "pedophilia inherently bad" argument, so its nice to at least have a semi intellectual discussion without resorting to straigh ad homs. Bye.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:32:57 2021 No.17791701

>>17791644
No. My point is that this is largely hysteria, and going by the victim's account, they aren't as traumatized as the myth will lead you to believe. It's you, someone who wasn't abused, and a bunch of idiot psychiatrists, telling the victim how they should feel rather than asking them how they feel. It's unscientific.
Does this mean I'm saying it's okay? No. Just that the current hysteria is out of proportion and actually damages the victims that it claims to help.
It stems from a Christian idea that sex is evil. Add a child into the mix and suddenly the moral framework implodes on itself and everyone's whipped into a religious frenzy screaming about how it's the worst thing ever.
It's bad. Not saying it's good.
Your reaction and your attitude is just out of proportion and doesn't line up with reality.
Read The Trauma Myth and learn a little about history and cultures that aren't American.
Tiresome, desu.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:41:47 2021 No.17791768

>>17791644
>“Due to themorally reprehensible nature of child sexual abuse, re-searchers have an understandable tendency to projecttheir adult fears, repulsion and horror onto child victims,to assume they react like they do when faced with sexualsituations.” Their anger is barely contained: “Amid theadult posturing, children’s views are seldom heard,”
Here's an excerpt from the book. Virtue signalling assholes make it worse for the victims. It's just like middle class white women screeching about racism thinking they're helping.
They're not. It's just virtue signalling and manufactured hysteria.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:50:02 2021 No.17791839

>>17791701
>anything that has a negative reaction to child abuse is because of hysterics
Zero way to define this either way.
How someone feels about something comes down to acceptance or rejection. Be it the abused or the society at large.
And again, it's about normalization.
If people don't have strong emotional reactions to it, it's an act of normalization or passively allowing it because it's not high up on our hierarchy of alarm.
Expecting parents to not have potent emotions for how their child is treated is absolute buffoonery.

And all I've got to say is what does this result in
What's the outcome of those whom are molested as children
Most of the time they go on to molest themselves or become extremely sexually active. This promiscuity bleeds into the result of their life and they jump from thing to thing. It's absolutely akin to our liberal commoditization culture.
This had nothing to do with hysterics and everything to do with how the body is programmed to experience reality.

Again, what you're saying is to move it down some notches on the hierarchy of alarm. This is closer to normalcy.
If we didn't have hysterics about rape in our society, more rape would happen because there wouldn't be -as- strong emotions to compel more people into action.

You are either an extremely manipulative person, or you've sat back rationalizing this to insane lengths to your own self. And if you've committed that much effort and energy towards it, it absolutely holds value to you.
I have zero faith that you're acting in the interests of children.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:50:46 2021 No.17791847

>>17791696
>Now to what aim it can be sublimated I and Plato we differ.
Yeah.

>Christianity mostly views carnal desires in itself as base and bad.
All desire, according to both Plato and Christianity, must be subservient to logos.

>and philosophers could provide them with means to reason, since it inevitabl requires a certain paideia. My idea was that the current paideia of sexuality views adult-child sex as wrong and this idea harms children (The Trauma Myth). Teaching them about sex would revert this.
I think that sex has nothing to do with the capacity to reason. The capacity to reason becomes available naturally, and can then be cultivated through propagation (of ideas).

I have no idea why the biological process of reproduction has any bearing on this. Trauma is completely irrelevant as well. This is actually absurd and completely ungrounded. You keep saying sex will teach them, I have no idea why this would ever be the case.

>why not both? greek elites would not oppose me on this point. Their whole society was grounded in pedophiliac relationships between mentor and the student
Because reproduction is impossible if you're same sex, and immoral if you do it outside of marriage. Furthermore the Greek elite knowingly did it in the spirit of exchanging their wisdom to the young one for the pleasant sexual services. The sex itself and the wisdom they imparted on their apprentices are two different and unconnected things (aside from the fact that it was a trade). And again, this is something that Socrates was VERY MUCH AGAINST.

>I think you're intelligent, but you lack individual thinking.
You literally parrot the modern academic paradigm whereas I stand out against it. I am more individualistic than you in that sense. Furthermore I can substantiate my beliefs whereas so far you have merely stated them.

>There might be alternatives to the one we currently have.
When did I say I like what we currently have?

>Also, read The Trauma Myth. Children become traumatic mainly because of culture.
Irrelevant to my point, it does not matter.

>its nice to at least have a semi intellectual discussion
I agree with you on that, but unfortunately despite our common ground on that, I recognize that you contain evil, and it makes me genuinely sad.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:51:49 2021 No.17791857 >>17791839 >Zero way to define this either way. im not that anon, but literally read the trauma myth holy fuck

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:57:22 2021 No.17791900

>>17791768
>everything that goes against my hot take is virtue signalling
That assertion from the book is just any other projection

Kids experiences should be carefully listened to. There's still zero tolerance for pedophiles.
To say there should "Be less hysterics" is to say there should be less backlash against pedophiles. They'll go out and create more pedophiles.

Again this is all environmental construction and I'm not interested in the world you're putting forward.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:57:33 2021 No.17791903

>>17791847
>I think that sex has nothing to do with the capacity to reason
not with capacity to reason itself, but with capacity to reason about sex. I'm talking about sex knowledge .
>Trauma is completely irrelevant as well.
current sex knowledge is harmful to children,see TTM book
>Because reproduction is impossible if you're same sex
and I'm not talking about reproduction, but about sex knowledge
>You literally parrot the modern academic paradigm
please do source me on a text that talks similar things about adult-child sex as I do. And I do substantiate them.
>Irrelevant to my point, it does not matter.
relevant to mine, since I asked why adult-child sex is bad. You say its morally bad, I say its psychologically harmful.
>I agree with you on that, but unfortunately despite our common ground on that, I recognize that you contain evil, and it makes me genuinely sad.
what makes me sad is that youre intelligent, but your logos is subservient to arbitrary mores, wasted potential

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:58:17 2021 No.17791911 >>17789775 >>17789780 derrida have a hard time trying to convince himself (and others) that deconstruction dont pressupose a construction. charlatanish as always.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 18:58:55 2021 No.17791917

>>17791696
>eros....is not bad in itself, which you posited at the beginning
Also, no, I said lust is bad in itself. I do not know how many times I have to say it. Lust is by definition disordered. You were using a different definition, which is fine, but I did not contradict myself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:02:06 2021 No.17791942 >>17791411 hey man, Muhamed wasn't a pedo, he waited until she was 9 to fuck her

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:04:16 2021 No.17791966

>>17791839
>anything that has a negative reaction to child abuse is because of hysterics
Not what I said.
>Most of the time they go on to molest themselves or become extremely sexually active. This promiscuity bleeds into the result of their life and they jump from thing to thing
Not true.
Once again, you're parroting myth.

I'm acting in the interest of truth because truth never hurt anyone.
Your entire post is myth.

Like the excerpt says >>17791768
Everything you're parroting has nothing to do with the actual abuse or how the child feels.
Your view is clouded because you've accepted what you think you're supposed to think and it doesn't reflect reality. Then, as what happens regularly, people who were abused have their feelings discounted by idiot psychs and people who have no idea what they're talking about who won't listen to them.
>>17791900
>this is all environmental construction
No it isn't. I'm asking you to reject the dogma and conditioning and consider it from a more scientific viewpoint where the actual feelings of the victim are taken into account rather than prioritizing your virtue signalling and need for a boogeyman.
>I'm not interested in the world you're putting forward.
Preferring and perpetuating a lie is for cowards.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:06:11 2021 No.17791988

>>17791900
>>everything that goes against my hot take is virtue signalling
>That assertion from the book is just any other projection
It's the only 'hot take' that comes from the victims themselves rather than second hand virtue signalers.
Read the book.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:07:08 2021 No.17791996

>>17791903
>sex knowledge
First time you have used this key term, a bit late in the discussion. What does it mean? Sounds like something extremely unimportant when it comes to cultivating a good person. You put the penis in the vagina and embrace. lol.

>current sex knowledge is harmful to children,see TTM book
I am not concerned with "current sex knowledge" and never has it appeared in my argument. I have certainly demonstrated how to make a case against sex with kids without reference to trauma or current sex knowledge.

>and I'm not talking about reproduction, but about sex knowledge
And I am telling you why you can't do either, which is because reproduction and propagation are the proper ways to show love.

>please do source me on a text that talks similar things about adult-child sex as I do
This is literally modern academia.

>And I do substantiate them.
You pointed me to the book but the book is irrelevant. You have not substantiated:
>I think its a narrow idea of the Good
>I think that he desire without an aim can be Good, since it is no longer attached to anything else and is self-sufficient
>We should not be philosophical nor base when it comes to sex (or sometimes, why not).
>Thats why pleasure is good on its own. But it can also provide the child with symbolization of sex, which is also good.
All of those claims are absurd and in desperate need of serious substantiation. Furthermore you have only just mentioned "sex knowledge" which is a crucial part of your point!

>relevant to mine
The point you made was not what we were discussing though, we were discussing my point.

>but your logos is subservient to arbitrary mores
I do not know what that means. My beliefs are subservient to logos whereas you admitted you think desires can and should be severed from it. That is chaos and evil, literally.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:07:57 2021 No.17792002

>>17791857
>but literally read the trauma myth holy fuck
You can normalize, justify, or be contrarian against anything
No shit a book can rationalize a position. Are you new to language?
I'm asking what environment this results in.

A person is largely defined by situations that have had the most impact on their lives. The peaks.
These peaks are defined by what emotion they felt, the potency, and the situation that caused them.
This now becomes the channel under which an individual is largely programmed.
If a child is profoundly loved, they will have a lot of love in them. If a child is resented, they will feel resented. So on.

When a child has a sexual experience at a young age, they have a very potent bodily response that shapes the brain, often in such a way that the child disproportionately favors this behavior because it was very stimulating.
"Good" or "bad", it doesn't matter.
The child seeks out to get that "hit" again, as it's a vice. They grew up around it, and they receive satisfaction from it.
It's the same thing as people who get caught in abuse cycles, they enjoy it.

When you remove the potent negative connotation around child molestation, again, you slowly reduce the will to act. Kids will start to grow up enjoying it and they will then reflect the law of the land. These people tend to be the type to molest children themselves.

Of course a kid can tell you they are "okay with" or "enjoyed" their molestation. This is quite obviously normalization.
If that kid received high stimulation from the event, of course they're going to seek it out.

You're both either totally daft or completely manipulative.
This will absolutely normalize pedophilia.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:10:26 2021 No.17792018

>>17791966
>No it isn't. I'm asking you to reject the dogma and conditioning and consider it from a more scientific viewpoint
Seriously a very manipulative person
You are a groomer

I just said a kids experience can be carefully tended to
A pedophile deserves to be removed from society
>just like enable everything man
>read the book bro

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:11:28 2021 No.17792029 >>17791966 >Your view is clouded because you've accepted what you think you're supposed to think and it doesn't reflect reality Straight groomer projection

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:11:41 2021 No.17792030

>>17792002
You're projecting onto the book what you think it is in your head.
It's written by a psych who interviewed hundreds of abuse victims.
Stop being an intellectual coward.
>>17792018
Strawman after strawman.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:15:15 2021 No.17792048 >>17791996 At this point its just two monologues. Bye.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:15:30 2021 No.17792050

>>17792030
I've been around and seen many molestation victims
Most of them become sex addicts and molesters themselves and you're an utter moron if you think this comes from people's response and not from their early body and brain programming from the event

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:16:36 2021 No.17792058 File: 84 KB, 1000x1000, e08.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:18:52 2021 No.17792072 >>17792048 I agree, although I am literally responding to what you're saying with counter points. It's tiring, so I agree that we should just part ways. We sure did give each other a lot of time haha.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 19:19:24 2021 No.17792076 >>17792048 >>17792072 gay

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:20:52 2021 No.17792085 >>17792072 yeah, I would respond, but its late and I'm getting tired. We will probably meet someday on here anyway, I'll know you

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:21:56 2021 No.17792089 >>17792076 ur just jealous

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:23:01 2021 No.17792097

>>17792050
Not true and it varies based on the abuse.
Educate yourself instead of repeating myth.
No one is advocating pedophilia. I'm just saying you are ignorant about a lot of it and hysteria based on myth is a destructive force, arguably an even more destructive force than what it is hysterical about, and it can often exacerbate the issue that caused the hysterics.
>Sexual abuse is what psychologist Steven Pinkercalls a “dangerous topic”—one that arouses painful andintense emotions in people who are forced to thinkabout it. In the grip of such emotions, it is difficult formany people (even trained scientists) to think clearly.
Be more intellectually brave.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:24:03 2021 No.17792103 >why'd white people create laws A book by the rest of the world

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:27:41 2021 No.17792127

>>17792050
>I was also vilified by many in my own scientific com-munity. Some colleagues and graduate students stoppedtalking to me. A well-meaning professor told me topick another research topic because I was going to rulemyself out of a job in academia. Some felt my researchhad a political agenda, one biased against victims. I wasinvited to give a talk about my research at CambridgeHospital—home of the tremendously influential sexualabuse treatment program Victims of Violence. No onefrom the program showed up.
>Unfortunately, when people heard “not traumaticwhen it happens,” they translated my words to mean “itdoesn’t harm victims later on.” Even worse, some as-sumed I was blaming victims for their abuse. Such reac-tions made no sense. I never once questioned whethersexual abuse hurt victims. In fact, I spent years listen-ing to heartbreaking stories about how these childhoodexperiences left a lasting imprint on their lives, rela-tionships, and sense of self. I had never suggested thatsexual abuse was not a crime; from my perspective,there was no doubt it was a reprehensible one.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:29:23 2021 No.17792135 >>17792097 The data constantly expresses that about one third of abusers become abusers, which is a significant increase from those whom haven't been abused

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 19:31:48 2021 No.17792152 >>17792097 >intellectual bravery means repressing normal human sentiment to the point of roboticism we should really start calling you people out for what you are, you're just fools.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:35:02 2021 No.17792176 >>17792135 Yes, as I said, it can happen but that is usually in more extreme cases and isn't a rule. Please, stop shooting the messenger. >>17792152 >tell you the truth >you refuse to listen >somehow I'm the fool

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 19:36:08 2021 No.17792193 >>17792176 if people need to repress their gut instinct to levels that cause actual discomfort, then its not "the truth," you incomprehensible jackass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:36:38 2021 No.17792198 >>17792152 you are really proud of following your societal norms aren't you

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:38:08 2021 No.17792209 >>17792193 >my cognitive bias based on current social paradigms and myth are more valuable than the real first-hand accounts of abuse victims and a clinical psychiatrist who devoted years to researching the subject The arrogance.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 19:40:00 2021 No.17792222 >>17792209 what are current social paradigms and myth based upon? where did they spawn from? The universe's asshole?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:41:51 2021 No.17792233 >>17792222 from feminist movement who had to exaggerate the problem of sexual abuse to achieve recognition. This exaggeration in turn results in trauma for children.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:41:55 2021 No.17792234

>>17792176
>Yes, as I said, it can happen but that is usually in more extreme cases and isn't a rule
Lol WHAT
This is pedophilia enabling plain and simple
35% of sex abuse victims becoming sex abusers is not just something that "can" happen. It's not about "extremes".
It means 35% of sex abuse victims become abusers

Might I remind you that the entire context of this thread is centered at attacking an abuser. A literal child rapist.
If your approach is to work with children that's completely fine.
But someone still needs to hold abusers accountable and set an example for the rest of society to see.
Pedophilia should never be normalized. Period.

The data clearly indicates a large portion of the abused will become abusers and this is why it's absolutely imperative that pedophiles are not allowed to abuse children in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:42:31 2021 No.17792241 >>17792222 I don't know, where did cultural marxism come from? Where did identity politics? Where did political correctness? >The universe's asshole? Probably.

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 19:45:03 2021 No.17792259 >>17792233 >>17792241 no, but im too tired and hungry to go through this argument again today. So just know that you are retarded degenerates who should be catapulted into the sun.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:45:30 2021 No.17792264 >>17792234 Tiresome and thread's nearly dead. Either try to have some intellectual courage and question things, or don't. Up to you and how big your balls are.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:45:50 2021 No.17792265

>>17792209
Lol you're straight up a child rapist aren't you
The fact that you even approach this from the child POV but won't outright express passionate contempt for child rapist just screams that you want to get kids to accept and normalize their experiences

>it's just status quo bro
>it's all myth
Yeah and cretinous identities lurch about when you enable anything
People come up with standards in spite of weasels and snakes

>think of the children
I can definitely tell that's what you've been doing

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:48:30 2021 No.17792287 >>17792259 >gets btfo >avoids the argument lol as usual, carry on m8

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:48:41 2021 No.17792290

>>17792259
and you're a cowardly fool who prefers ignorance and falsehood
>>17792265
I already said a million times it's wrong.
>>Sexual abuse is what psychologist Steven Pinkercalls a “dangerous topic”—one that arouses painful andintense emotions in people who are forced to thinkabout it. In the grip of such emotions, it is difficult formany people (even trained scientists) to think clearly.
Not my fault you give into blind, unhelpful fervour and virtue signalling over truth.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:50:29 2021 No.17792303

>>17792264
You've jabbed at "intellectualism" and "bravery" like 3 times now, and you do it to frame manhood and gumption around willingness to accept YOUR premise
Nothing about what you're talking about is brave or intellectual
It has everything to do with long format grooming and enticing people to play your game so they can become enchanted by some verbal hypnosis that you yourself no doubt have huge stake in justifying with the terabytes of child porn on your hard drive

Trying to 'invalidate my manhood' because I don't tolerate pedophiles is again more groomer behavior

You wreak of this shit

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:52:40 2021 No.17792318 >>17792303 >spend the entire thread calling me every name under the sun >pedo >groomer >etc. >how dare you manipulate me into accepting your premise! Fuck off retard

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:53:10 2021 No.17792321

>>17792290
Honestly man. This stuff might work on 12 year olds but you're blatantly obvious
Again you've projected onto me that I am whatever this psych has said. Some empty comment he made applies to me because of some projection you put forward.
Nothing's brave about enabling pedophilia and my response to events are my own.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:54:10 2021 No.17792324 File: 53 KB, 432x768, 99a548eba995b8552d09602ec75adc1c00c9764a37027c81ad99292198f1e03d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17792193 >unironically trusting their gut instincts to know the truth of a situation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:55:41 2021 No.17792333 >>17792324 Guts the real brain

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:55:52 2021 No.17792335 >>17792321 >you're a groomer! >you're manipulating me! While the entire thread I'm called a sick fuck and that I should be killed just for suggesting (based on evidence) that some things surrounding abuse are wrong. Really sick of your shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:56:58 2021 No.17792342 >>17792335 Because you are a groomer It's laced all over your communication

>>	Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 19:57:29 2021 No.17792346 >>17792333 one day you will understand your own hubris, and the irony will be that it is this "intellect" of yours which will bring you there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:58:55 2021 No.17792359 >>17792342 Straight from your ass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 19:59:19 2021 No.17792363 >>17792333 >Really sick of your shit. fuck, i cant argue with trips and i am a gut guy too but i have to admit that guts have basic and miserable errors too. and when you mix that with one or two drops of pride then you are entirely lost.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 20:01:40 2021 No.17792376

>>17792346
Then you'll still accept your gut
Knowledge is in the body
Brain just makes up stories or accepts others stories so then get in the body
"And words become flesh"
Gut is self is ancestral knowledge
Prevents groomers like this guy from having their way

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 20:04:05 2021 No.17792393

>>17792363
A lot of your biome comes from your mother comes from your lineage
All your mitochondrial DNA comes from your mother
Brain is just stories, but it can allow you to play things out without having to go through it (less data but less potential for long lasting problems)

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 20:09:02 2021 No.17792426 >>17792393 >your gut is the truth is the same as >the stories of your brain are the truth

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 20:13:13 2021 No.17792451

>>17792376
The reason your 'gut' is telling you what it's telling you is because of some feminists in the 70s and propaganda. The issue was politicized and the science went out the window in favour of political agenda.
Your gut is (literally and metaphorically) full of shit and hubris.
You're not even bothering to listen to what I'm actually saying and respond as if you're only hearing what you want (or don't) want to hear.
>fucking groomer!
Idiots, man.

Ray Romano, Proud Black Man Mon Mar 15 20:25:28 2021 No.17792529

>>17792451
>we don't fuck kids because of feminists in the 1970s
your utter contempt toward everything vulnerable, women as well as kids, signifies all that we need to know.
by the way, that's a fairy tale: the reason you can't fuck kids is because the rest of us, the other men, will beat you within an inch of your life if you try.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 15 20:29:19 2021 No.17792562 >>17792529 >You're not even bothering to listen to what I'm actually saying and respond as if you're only hearing what you want (or don't) want to hear. Dumb virtue signalers.

Anonymous Mon Mar 15 20:39:34 2021 No.17792635

>>17792529
>Even if I was right and sexual abusewas not a traumatic event at the time it occurred, whatwas wrong with continuing to believe what we all be-lieve about it?
>Today, I am not surprised by this reaction. I realizethat many people committed to helping victims of sex-ual abuse do not really care about the truth surround-ing the actual event. The trauma theory’s inaccuracydoes not matter to them. We do not live in a scientificlab; we live in the real world. And in the real world,based on the paucity of inquiry into the topic, mostpeople associate our current thinking about sexualabuse with progress for victims. Given that assumption,who would want to risk even the hint of a return to atime when sexual abuse was ignored, when victimswere blamed for any sex crimes against them, and whenperpetrators got off the hook and went on to defilemore innocent children? I understand why we cling tothe trauma model. Any data that runs counter to itmight threaten the progress victims’ rights advocatesfought so hard to achieve.
>The reason the truth matters—the reason advocacyis, in fact, best based on truth—is that our lies aboutsexual abuse are not helping victims. As I discuss in thenext two chapters, based on what victims have to say, professionals in the mental health field have not mademuch progress for them. Unfortunately, the current cli-mate for survivors does not appear to be much differenttoday than it was in the past. Today, victims still feel ig-nored, they still rarely speak out about the crimesagainst them, and when they do, they are still disbe-lieved and blamed.
Virtue signaling does not help victims. Politicizing the issue for your own selfish need to play the big strong hero man doesn't help victims.

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/lit/ - Literature