/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17771065]

So pic related series has left me a bit confused.

So the first book is your typical adventure with some philosophical/religious? undertones.

The second book, Messiah, get's bit messier. Lot's of politics and Paul's struggle with his visions. He want's to make his own destiny and decides to abandon his Golden Path (as we see in the 3rd book).

The third book, is the most confusing. It's full of political intrigue which is fine, but the religious aspects in Leto's journey after he leaves the Sietch left me confused.

So what's the deal with the second and third books? What is the message that Herbert tries to convey? Is it about the struggle of humans finding a purpose and making their own destiny? This is the most brainlet I've felt reading a book since I've read Seneca.

I've just started the 4th one so I can't tell much about it.

[Anonymous No.17771252]

>>17771065
>Is it about the struggle of humans finding a purpose and making their own destiny?
I view the series is Herbert's commentary on Asimov's Foundation trilogy, which Herbert also mentioned in one of his essays -- he liked to take a work by other writers and flip their themes / assumptions around, which is something sci-fi writers loved to do to each other back then.

In the Foundation, a mathematician comes up with a new form of mathematics that can predict the future on large scales, and predicts that the galactic empire is going to collapse and lead to a dark age lasting thousands of years. His followers then create an organization called the Foundation that seeks to preserve human knowledge and then once things settle down for a bit, they'll voyage out to spread the knowledge and shorten the dark ages so it's only a few thousand years instead of 10,000 years (or something, can't remember). In the second book, a powerful antagonist appears in the form of a mentalic warlord called The Mule who wasn't foreseen in the Foundation's mathematical futurevision.

I think Herbert is flipping those themes around. He was an old-school American libertarian type and didn't like the idea of a group of scientists having all this power, like the Foundation. He thought it would lead to disaster. In Dune, the Bene Gesserit are like the Foundation, but serve as Herbert's antagonists, and Paul is like "The Mule," the unforeseen variable who throws those plans into disarray. He flipped Asimov's themes on their head.

It's funny that both a Dune movie and a Foundation series are coming out around the same time, since they're kind of like the same story but are the "opposites" of each other.

https://youtu.be/FZd3xUDudy8

[Anonymous No.17771619]

>>17771252
Interesting, hadnt realised this anon

[Anonymous No.17771677]

>>17771252
>Foundation adaption
God this looks like trash

[Anonymous No.17771795]

>>17771619
Yeah, it is interesting. Like, the Bene Gesserit have all kinds of plans. There are plans within plans within plans, but one unexpected variable causes everything to blow up in their face. In Foundation though, it's almost like if the Bene Gesserit were the good guys.

Herbert distrusted centralized authority and conspiracies by powerful cliques and so on. If Herbert was alive today, politically I think he'd probably support Gary Johnson or someone like that, the American libertarian, and he would think Trump was good insofar that he caused people to be suspicious of a would-be tyrant. I think Herbert was a "little-l" libertarian type from the Pacific Northwest. Liberty is for the brave and risk-taking. The Fremen were masters of their own fate because they were willing to take the risks that others weren't. It's summed up in the idea that liberty isn't safe.

That's my theory anyways, whatever anyone here thinks of Herbert's political views or whether he's right/wrong. I actually love Dune -- it's one of my favorite novels of all time -- but I would probably would agree with Asimov more about things. Which probably shows how compelling Herbert's vision was, at least for me.

[Anonymous No.17771818]

>>17771252
>https://youtu.be/FZd3xUDudy8
I'm so tired of seeing black people.

[Anonymous No.17771845]

>>17771795
Its seems to be his intention. Constrast the Bene Gesserit with the Freman. The Freman has a strange system of on the one hand being utterly obdient to thier tribal leaders for the sake of the community, but simultaniously consider it a important right to be able to challange thier leader for any potentially wrong choice. An interesting system of anarchy within order, and order within anarchy. Personally of the two authors, I agree more with Herbet than Asimov on this issue, but each man is entitiled to his own interpretation

[Anonymous No.17772064]

On a somewhat related note, In children of dune, was there any point to the reveal at the end where it turns out leto is actually an abomination possesed by that one guy I can't remeber the name of who's literally only mentioned one or two times on the last page or so of the book?? It felt like that was supposed to be important, but It's never brought up again in God emperor. A lot of the plot develepments in children of dune felt kind of pointless.

[Anonymous No.17772076]

Are any of the books after the first one worth reading? Or are they just mediocre?

[Anonymous No.17772116]

>>17771065
>So pic related series has left me a bit confused.

Human struggle is the only sacred thing in this universe.

[Anonymous No.17772122]

>>17772076
God emperor is commonly considered the best of them. It takes a turn into more bizarro fiction, and its worth reading through messiah and children to get to. That said messiah and children are still good.

[Anonymous No.17772149]

>>17772076
It really depends what you want out of them, but I would say the first 3 at least are worth it

[Anonymous No.17772593]

>>17772122
>>17772149
Thanks anons, the original is on my to-read list and if I enjoy it I'll go on with the few after it then

[Anonymous No.17772616]

>>17772593
Keep a good note of the impressions you got from the original, it will inform you well of what to read of the series after. Afterall, you may not like it all, which would be unfortunate but each to their own

[Anonymous No.17772639]

>>17772616
Yes that's possible but I think I'll enjoy it, I'm familiar with some of the screen adaptations and have been recommended it by friends who know my tastes. I think most of them have only read the first though.

[Anonymous No.17772662]

>>17772639
Hope you do enjoy it anon, its excellent

[Anonymous No.17772882]

>>17772149
Retarded guide, no one is going to stop at 2 it would be very unfulfilling