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17731921 No.17731921 [Reply] [Original]

Can Stoicism really help you get rid of emotions? Or atleast control them to an extent that they stop affecting you? Can it make completely apathetic?

>> No.17731944

>Can Stoicism really help you get rid of emotions?
No.
>Or atleast control them to an extent that they stop affecting you?
To some extent yes. Just as other forms of mindfulness can help with this.
If you really want to mute the effects of emotions you should raise your testosterone levels.

>> No.17732051

>>17731921
Yes.

>>17731944
>If you really want to mute the effects of emotions you should raise your testosterone levels.
You're the dumbest person that ever walked the earth.

>> No.17732390

No because that's not what stoicism is about. Stoic practices can help you overcome the fear of death or the loss of material goods, it can enable you to act heroically, but they would never claim to be able control emotions. Instead they'll help you control your impressions because that's actually within your power.

If you're standing on a sinking boat it's perfectly natural to feel fear, but you don't have to add anything to that. Instead of telling yourself "I'm on a sinking boat, and this is bad" you can simply say "I'm on a sinking boat" because that is what's true. There's nothing truly evil about drowning at sea. This can have the effect of calming you down but that's not important. What's important is right judgement. That will make you happy.

>> No.17732475

>>17732390
thank fucking god some one on this god forsaken board actually understands Stoicism

>> No.17732684

>>17732475
Exactly. It's not that hard to browse r/stoicism every now and then.

>> No.17732805

>>17731921
Stoicism is about finding inner peace through virtue and contemplation. If you want inner peace, then you must stop being a degenerate. For that, read St Augustine's Confessions.

>> No.17732855

>>17731921
No. And “controlling” emotions like they mean doesn’t matter. You’re going to react however you do and anything else is an awkward act.

>> No.17733623

>>17731944
>If you really want to mute the effects of emotions you should raise your testosterone levels.
But doesn't testosterone make you more aggressive?

>> No.17733713
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17733713

>>17731921
so you want to get rid of natural reflexes. body bad! body is wrong! god is wrong!

>> No.17733760

>>17733713
Yet, you're the same person who would claim that premarital sex is a sin.

>> No.17733804

>>17733623
Yes. It removes the cloud of internal emotional debate - and reason - and replaces it with a motive force to spring into action. But this is a far cry from the “apathy” that OP (a faggot) desires.

>>17733713
Based. A strong mind is built on the foundation of a strong body.

>> No.17733895

>>17731921
Stoicism is an exercise. Some of the best quiet times of my life would be reflecting on the thoughts of Seneca's letters in a journal. That goes away when you don't do it but at the time it feels good. It's not something you read once and you're fixed, it's continuous.

>> No.17734111

>>17731921
Yes, everybody here saying they can’t control their basic emotions are low intelligence, they refuse to acknowledge the small time frame between stimuli and reaction, this small time frame determines everything. But be warned apathy can be self destructive. And Ill admit, sexual arousal is harder to dominate than anger.

>> No.17734193

>>17731921

Stoicism is a tool anon no secular philosophy is going to turn you into a monk who can set himself on fire and not flinch.

>> No.17734207

When I get anxious or scared when spending too much time outside I run home, eat a bowl of Fruit Loops, jack to BBC porn then nap for hours. When I wake up I blind rage post SJW talking points and about Hitler's likely return any day now while drinking beer and smoking weed until the alcohol and weed calm me down. By then I'm hungry again due to a diet of almost exclusively sugar. I'll usually eat some pseudo meat flavored shapes from 7/11 then promise myself I won't dehumanize black men by frantically fapping to MASSIVE BBC while imagining said MASSIVE BBC thoroughly destroying my would be gf (I don't have a gf irl). How could Stoicism help me at this point, I'm 33?

>> No.17734215

>>17734207
Jesus dude just kys nothing can save you at this point

>> No.17734234
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17734234

Try trauma.
I hate you all, more than you could ever know.

>> No.17734242

I wish I could feel again

>> No.17734279

>>17731921
Try becoming depressed or just cut out pieces of your brain to induce anhedonia.

>> No.17734313

>>17734207
>pseudo meat flavored shapes from 7/11
I'm sorry you can not be saved.

>> No.17734454

>>17731921
It can help you not get overwhelmed by them, but the point of stoicism isn't really about not caring, but arriving at a right judgement about situations in your life like others have said.

>> No.17734518

>>17733760
>this much atheist fedora tipping
its gotten worse
one would think images of boys with katanas would scare people like you into shutting your garbage mouth

>> No.17734530

>>17734454
I always thought the point of stoicism was analogous to the feminist worker.

She doesn't work to work, she works to prove she can work like a man.
Stoics do not teach the same crap that God-fearers believe to teach it, they teach it to prove that you can do well in life without God as you can with Him.

What are all these people trying to prove? Hint: the concept of an inferiority complex is very relevant...

>> No.17734560

>>17734242
oh that phase when you’re 19

>> No.17734655

>>17734518
>No argument.

>> No.17734682

I just blasted my anger at this poor delivery driver and I feel so so bad

>> No.17734730

>>17731921
That’s not what stoicism is retard

>> No.17735239

>>17734730
What is Stoicism, then?

>> No.17736790

>>17735239
Read the thread

>> No.17736803

Haha epic tits

>> No.17737096

>>17732684
or just read stoic philosophy

>> No.17737110

>>17736803
based pewdiepie poster

>> No.17737117

>>17735239
it's this >>17732390

>> No.17737290

>>17731921
>Can Stoicism really help you get rid of emotions?
No, emotions are human, we are (still) humans

>Or atleast control them to an extent that they stop affecting you?
>It can help you command and control your emotions. But thats a second-layer stoicism. First, it will help you understand what emotions and affects are, and that are not different from what you are (in other words, it will show you that your actions and your emotions are simultaneous).

>Can it make completely apathetic?
No, it would not. The stoics were materialists and stoicist metaphysics thinks affects (and pathos) are transcendental (were transcendental = in all things = in being =/= beyond all things [which is transcendent]).

If you want to get rid of everything that is affects and passions, you should go to your favourite cope (christianism or some guenonian form of esoterism) --or you could also kill yourself; thats easier.

>> No.17737516

>>17731921
>another anon who doesn't understand stoicism
Like pottery.

>> No.17738424

>>17734193
>no secular philosophy is going to turn you into a monk who can set himself on fire and not flinch
How did he do it then?

>> No.17738487

>>17733760
>premarital sex is a sin.
Not the guy but simply put yes. I don't want engage with a woman who constantly releases Oxytocin from guy to guy. It's not only unhealthy, it affects future generations.

>> No.17738531

>>17738487
You can't find a virgin woman who's also sane, these days.

>> No.17738583

>>17738531
Both really.
You can't the a virgin who's sane, and you can't find a sane person who's a virgin.

>> No.17739438

>>17738531
Then it's better to be celibate. This is not something to compromise on because there is no better predictor of future divorce and other dysfunction than a woman having previous relations.

>> No.17739490
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17739490

>>17732390

>> No.17739512
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17739512

>> No.17739563

>>17739490
>>17739512
These are actually pretty good.

>> No.17739973

>>17739490
>>17739512
Interesting.

>> No.17740045

>>17731921
why dont you just drill a hole in your brain? trepanation is still trendy in some circles

>> No.17740281

>>17739490
So what exactly did he do different compared to others on the boat? Seems like he was picnicking just like everyone.

>> No.17740650

>>17740281
He recognized that what was happening to simply an event that was happening to him. He did add the moral judgement "this is bad" because there is no moral judgement to be made. The ship is caught in a storm, and that's it. Training your mind to simply recognize what these events are will go a long way in helping you maintain or regain your composure.

It may sound simple but this is actually some very powerful stuff. A while back my neighbors house caught on fire and I was able to keep my head and take action and rescue some dogs while everybody else was panicking and didn't know what to do. I really don't think I could have done that without this technique.

>> No.17740792

>>17734530

Idiot, stoicism was a huge influence in Christianity. Not the other way around.

>> No.17742289

>>17740650
What do you when the situation is inescapable?

>> No.17742679

>>17742289
That's exactly the point. Most of the time our circumstances are inescapable, at least in part. You can accept it and do what remains in your capacity, even if that is just an attempt to remain peaceful or focus on something happy while you die

>> No.17742710

>>17742289
All that is going to happen will happen whether you want it to or not. Everything is inescapable.

>> No.17742828

>>17731921
The point of Stoicism is not to become completely unfeeling, it's to feel the feelings you always had felt, but to not let them define you or control you. Seneca says this in his letters.

>> No.17744683
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17744683

Are reading just the main three books, starting with epictetus enough? Or is there any additional material?

>> No.17744853

>>17734682
Why anon. You can make certain people's day with just a smile. It really is that simple.

>> No.17744863

>>17744683
It depends on what you're looking for. If it's how to live then the big four (counting Rufus) are enough but if you're looking to dig into the individual metaphysics and logic of stoics throughout antiquity then you have a lot of different things you can read. Cicero, Plutarch, Hierocles, Diogenes Laertius, I don't know. There's a lot of people I can't think of right now.

>> No.17746162

>>17744863
>Rufus
Which book exactly?

>> No.17746302

>>17746162
We only have a short series of lectures and some fragments and they can be found online if you look hard enough. If you really want a physical book then I would get the Cynthia King translation because that also includes the Greek.

>> No.17746348

>>17746302
>>17746162
Actually I think I'm mistaken about the Cynthia King translation having the Greek. I made an ebook out of his lectures one time and it included the Greek. I thought it was from her book but I guess not.

>> No.17746365

>>17734682
Work it out in other ways, it is not expected you never get angry at first. Exercise, get productive hobbies, or get a wife to beat in a game of checkers

>> No.17746878

>>17746302
>>17746348
Thanks. I think I found it. In what order do you read the stoics(the big four)?

>> No.17746998

>>17746878
There's no order. You could even jump around from a single chapter of one writer to a chapter of another if that's what works for you.

>> No.17747070

>>17746998
Thanks again.

>> No.17747315

>>17739512
>>17739490
My problem with stoicism is that it stops halfway, and can be used to simply endure the reality in which we live, rather than change it. While it's true that our perception and reaction depend on us, the circumstances that put us in this situation initially still exist. Paradoxically, Stoicism can lead us to more suffering.

For example, let's take the plight of a lonely man with no gf. Stoicism can help him with his despair without getting a gf. But, he could also focus his energy to get a gf by improving his life and circumstances. Similar to those slaves. They could revolt in an effort to become free, rather than just accepting their plight and directing it inwards

>> No.17747364

>Daughter is horrifically killed
Ok stoics.
what now? how does one cope?

>> No.17747414

>>17747364
Did you think she was going to live forever?

>> No.17747456

>>17747364
how do you know she isn't happier now?

>> No.17747457

>>17747414
Of course not

>> No.17747486

>>17747457
Then why does it bother you?

>> No.17747546

>>17747486
Because a child was ripped from her mortal coil and suffered horifficially while it happened. Does it matter that she would have died eventually anyway?

To me stoicism's biggest problem is that it's mainly focused with avoiding pain. Which is good - up to a point. Where it falls short is the human need for attaining peace and happiness, avoiding pain and accepting the hardships meakly as they come will only serve to rot your humanity and empty you of anything human. Marcus was so void of carnal pleasures he had no care for music, dancing, art - it was all hollow to him. I can't see how a philosophy that does that to a person can be good to devote oneself to.

>> No.17747577

>>17747546
Well said. I have the same issue. Stoicism is not life affirming

>> No.17747775

>>17747546
If you want to be an emotional idiot and rant against stoicism then go do it, but don't waste peoples time pretending to look for stoic answers to your grief. "Ripped from her mortal coil" actually did make me laugh though because it sounded so forced. Dying and pain is no evil and wrapping it up in hamfisted rhetoric isn't going to change that. It's perfectly normal to get upset when people close to you die but you can get on with your life easily if you drop the sophistry and recognize these things for what they are. You won't find a single word from the Stoics about avoiding pain because that isn't possible, and I would love to know how you know so much about Marcus considering the rest of us know so little about his day to day habits, hobbies, and relations. I see him constantly talking about love and joy but apparently the guy was a robot.

>> No.17747962

>>17747315
There's a fundamental stupidity hidden in this post that I can't quite put my finger on. I will, however, say that the point of stoicism completely escapes you.