/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17728822]

What books should I read to BTFO right wingers in debates? Also post any debates where right wingers get BTFO if you have any

[Anonymous No.17729767]

>>17728822

Debates on what?

[Anonymous No.17731358]

>>17729767
Communists have low self esteem, and seek self validation through "debates" to cope with the fact they have no ability to enact their beliefs.

[Anonymous No.17731371]

>>17728822
Just read any book, leftists don't seem to read at all so it's a start

[Anonymous No.17732236]

>>17728822
there are none because leftists ideas can only survive in a heavily moderated environment. their arguments can't survive in the crucible of public forums.

[Anonymous No.17732246]

>>17731358
This is true of all extremists

[Anonymous No.17732290]

>>17728822
here you go

[Anonymous No.17732297]

>>17728822
>help me btfo the right wing gais lmao
>help me btfo the left wing gais lmao
Fuck both cuck wings. Dems and reps are fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.17732468]

the right died after ww2, having basic knowledge will let you BTFO the vast maority of them

[Anonymous No.17732486]

>>17732246
eeh not really. fascists can and have created a fascist state, there will never be a functional anarchist or communist state even if leftists win a thousand more revolutions

[Anonymous No.17732520]

>>17728822
Not possible. We have leaned so far into leftist errors that any argument to maintain this or accelerate into it have to be irrational. You just have to be content with the powers that be enforcing your sensibilities onto sociey by suppresing the opposition.

[Anonymous No.17732592]

>>17732468
Only when you consider liberal-conservatives as "the right" but they're really lefties in denial, it's not hard to btfo those, you're correct that the true popular right died after WW2 though. There's only retarded leftism, liberal wokeism, and leftism-in-denial left now.

[Anonymous No.17732600]

>>17728822
Just bring up the 2008 financial crash. That literally showed the massive holes and greed in American capitalism.

[Anonymous No.17732607]

>>17732486
Ask me how I know you're a fascist.

[Anonymous No.17732614]

>>17732486
By that measure commies are the best. The USSR alone btfo any fascist state so far.

[Anonymous No.17732623]

What books should I read to BTFO left wingers in debates? Also post any debates where left wingers get BTFO if you have any

[Anonymous No.17732644]

Arent leftists supposed to be the smart ones? I think you can fogure it out big boi

[Anonymous No.17732797]

>>17732486
You fucking retard. You couldn't have come up with a worse metric if you tried. The communists quite literally btfo facist italy and with 3 times the longevity of the state.

[Anonymous No.17732809]

>>17728822
I'm more well read on the anarchist side of things so I will contribute with that.

Malatesta's At The Cafe and Anarchy are together the best introduction to anarchist thought and there are responses to common misconceptions and critiques.

Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread is basically the same and it destroys the "muh human nature" and provides practical answers and kind of a blueprint for communism - although likely obsolete today. His essays are also very good.

An Anarchist FAQ is a glorified cheat sheet and that's why it's good.

If all else fails, read the spooky book(and Stirner's Critics too because you're a sperg) and laugh at every single argument they throw at you for the rest of your life.

[Anonymous No.17732823]

how to censor the opposition

[Anonymous No.17732860]

>>17732486
>>17732486
>Anarchist
>State

>Communist
>State

[Anonymous No.17732886]

>>17732797
The difference is communists were funded by international finance, fascists were opposed by international finance.
>>17732614
The USSR wasn't communist for very long though lmao

[Anonymous No.17732888]

>>17732860
You can't enforce anarchist communism, or even Marxian communism without a state. You have to be retarded if you think you can enforce consumption, property, and exchange limits without coercion. Full unemployment would require the militarization of labor, and historical, that has been the in every communist experiment.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17732908]

>>17732888
You won’t have to. That’s what blows everyone’s mind. It’s a replacement and the masses take a good look at it and throw the statists over and say “forget you”.

[Anonymous No.17732920]

>>17732908
>Why do I have share my goods in common when I can just what I want for myself?
Socialists are so stupid. Like, you guys do realize that Marx, Engels only became communists because they saw a bunch dumb Christians in the United States sharing goods communally, and thought it would be a good idea to do it on a national, international scale?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17732932]

>>17732920
>Fuck you mom. I’m’a eat five slices of cake, and you can’t stop me!

[Anonymous No.17732934]

>>17732920
You're arguing with fake butterfag, anon.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17732938]

>>17732934
He’s still losing even if it isn’t me.

[Anonymous No.17732999]

>>17731358
>no ability to enact their beliefs
Their utopia is a textbook power vacuum. The best they get is a couple of years of an unorganized shitshow before a dictator takes advantage of the public's fear of instability. Why they keep trying is beyond me, but it takes some serious doublethink to delude oneself into the ideology

[Anonymous No.17733013]

>>17732938
Acting like a retard isn't winning in any way, fake tranny

[Anonymous No.17734208]

>>17732886
>It was joooooos
Cringe

[Anonymous No.17734236]

>>17734208
>It was joooooos
Yes?

[Anonymous No.17734248]

>>17732486
>there will never be a functional anarchist or communist state even if leftists win a thousand more revolutions
Why would anarchists want a state? Left anarchists want unions and federations and shit like that.

>>17732886
The USSR was never communist and arguably never socialist. It was just capitalism but they killed rich people that weren't of benefit to the state.

[Anonymous No.17734260]

>>17734248
>The USSR was never communist and arguably never socialist. It was just capitalism but they killed rich people that weren't of benefit to the state.
It wasn't /just/ capitalism, it was a totalitarian and extra retarded form, but otherwise true I guess

[Anonymous No.17734272]

>>17732797
which country turned over the means of production to the proles and defeated fascists? the ussr were basically just pseudo fascists

[Anonymous No.17734274]

>>17734248
USSR was good become it killed communist, and showed the word how shitty their ideology is

[Anonymous No.17734276]

>>17734248
>Why would anarchists want a state? Left anarchists want unions and federations and shit like th
oh PLEASE you know exactly what i meant autist

[Anonymous No.17734280]

>>17728822

[Anonymous No.17734287]

>>17732297
OP did not mention either party.
Or his nationality for that matter.

[Anonymous No.17734301]

>>17734260
Yeah, I agree. It also wasn't pure unregulated free market capitalism obviously.

>>17734274
k brainlet

>>17734276
k brainlet

>>17734280
This would be funnier if the dude who made it knew how to use photoshop but still effective in concept.

[Anonymous No.17734308]

>>17734301
have sex

[Anonymous No.17734337]

>>17734280
based /lit/ gay antifa bro

[Anonymous No.17734349]

With Ben shapiro

[Anonymous No.17734362]

>>17732290

[Anonymous No.17734414]

>>17734236
I’ve checked the first three of these and they are wrong. Assuming you don’t consider News Corp/Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch (which is dumb but anyway) the CEO is Robert Thomson, Time Warner is owned by AT&T whose CEO is John T. Stankey, the Sony one is kinda correct if you consider Sony America (the CEO of Sony worldwide is Japanese) but then again if we are sub-dividing divisions of Sony to make this table then you actually want the CEO of Sony entertainment which is Tony Vinciquerra who has an Italian surname. I didn’t bother going on after this so maybe the last two are right. But even if they were the image is still full of shit.

[Anonymous No.17734458]

>>17728822
If leftists knew any economics, they would be multi-millionaires by now.
However, it's the neoliberal capitalists who are multi-millionaires.
Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe they are the ones who actually know how the world works?
Why would you pay attention to some loser who claims to have solved economics but didn't even manage to make big money out of it?
It's like taking writing advice from a bad author. You don't want advice from Paulo Coelho, you want advice from Aristotle and T.S. Eliot.

Pic related.

[I2 Supremacist No.17734465]

>>17728822
You could try raising your IQ above the leftist average of 85

[I2 Supremacist No.17734472]

>>17732614
The USSR was a fascist state you absolute mongoloid.
>no it was Communism
It wasn’t real communism and it wasn’t communism at all. It was literally a fascist imperialist Slavic superstate.

[Anonymous No.17734474]

>>17734308

[Anonymous No.17734492]

>>17732886
>The difference is communists were funded by international finance, fascists were opposed by international finance.

based reply anon

[Anonymous No.17734769]

>>17732908
>That’s what blows everyone’s mind. It’s a replacement and the masses take a good look at it and throw the statists over and say “forget you”.
The state is inevitable. It is the ultimate form of human social organization. It was an inevitability the moment the first primates with higher mental capacity and complex social structures evolved. Everything in the history of human social organization demonstrates this, from the transition from hunter-gatherer bands to tribes to villages to cities. Whatever your gay LARP of an ideology says be damned, wherever you see complex political organization there are the seeds of the state. And you will get the state, regardless of whatever moronic euphemism you make up to let you get off to your moronic LARPing in perpetuity. In order to impose your LARP on the rest of humanity and even just to make sure you can actually run your gay commune, you will discover that you will need to impose a monopoly of legitimate force. And thus, you will created a state. You can call it whatever stupid shit you want, but the fact remains it is a state and the fact remains you are a gay LARPer who just wants to coom in your CHAZ or whatever stupid thing you pawns of Capital are up to these days.

>>17734248
>The USSR was never communist and arguably never socialist. It was just capitalism but they killed rich people that weren't of benefit to the state.
Irrelevant because true communism (as presented as the end state of historical development by Marx) is a fetishistic fantasy LARPing as millenarianism. 'True" communism will never be real, outside of eusocial insects and potentially bathyergid rodents (the Damaraland blesmol and naked mole-rat to be specific).

>>17734272
>the ussr were basically just pseudo fascists
>>17734472
>The USSR was a fascist state you absolute mongoloid
>It wasn’t real communism and it wasn’t communism at all. It was literally a fascist imperialist Slavic superstate
These are closer to the truth, even if "red fascism" wasn't real.

[Anonymous No.17734897]

>>17732486
braindead take. it's so fucking easy to establish a fascist state that the US government could do it right now if they wanted to, but with communism, it's a much more complex ideology with more actual academic literature behind it. Communism has never truly been established because every time a socialist transitionary state as been established, it has had imperialist, capitalist states breathing down their neck to the point where they end up collapsing from all the pressure.

[Anonymous No.17734903]

>>17728822
Any intellectual book.

[Anonymous No.17734920]

>>17734897
To add onto this, fascist states do not experience the same pressures that socialist states face in a capitalist world. See pic related.

[Anonymous No.17734947]

>>17728822
Books by right wingers. You need to know their arguments.
Then listen to discussions, where right wingers won. You want to be prepared against the succesful arguments.

[Anonymous No.17735000]

>>17728822
follow logo and kantbot on twitter they seem to have provoking right wingers down to a science

shit they even annoy me

[Anonymous No.17735033]

>>17732908
>every single human being is the same and will react precisely as i predict

this is a really good way of saying your ideology relies on waving a magic wand and making trillions of chaotic variables into place precisely

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17735237]

>>17735033
Every single human wants food and safety.
Only bourgeois and “petit bourgeois” brainwashed dipthongs like you would die on a cross for state-capitalism

[Anonymous No.17735406]

>>17728822
Ight then,time to shit on Communism
Let's start with some literature,Industrial Society and It's Future by Ted K is a great introduction,after reading more of Ted K's works you can read The Technological Society by Jacques Ellul.

Even at the time Ellul wrote his text,he noted that Technique had already become independent of the machine,for Technique had transcended the limits of (economic) production to encompass all activities.
Blaming Capitalism is therefore not at all sufficient,since the Machine encompasses far more than capitalism does.
Technique causes everything to have to be considered in terms of the Machine.
Progress is far broader than Capitalism because even its supposed antithesis Communism still fits within this same expectation that the only ''truth'' about human society is the technical operation to make it function more efficiently as a giant social machine.
In a perverse re-deffinition of the term,growth was once instinctive but is now rational (economic growth,technical progress,social progress etc..)
Both Capitalism and Communism accept this re-deffinition and only disagree over which method will yield a better result from a strictly technical level.

Communism will,like any technophile ideology,create a nightmare/end the human race,since anarchism requires a post-scarcity world to even stand a chance,and post-scarcity requires immense technological progress,anarchism is unachievable.
And yes,this applies to many right wing ideologies aswell,but not all.
The imagined technological utopia will in reality be a nightmare where humans are reduced to cogs.
Please also consider that I am not an anarcho-primitivist,nor a supremacist(I have to specify this on 4chinks).

>>17735237
>Every single human wants food and safety.
Yes,and the System will try to provide for these material needs and more.
Your enlightened non-brainwashed materialists will put their needs over your revolution.

[Anonymous No.17737147]

>>17732486
Entire thread of Leftists rattled by one post

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17737222]

>>17737147
The depths of stupidity do rattle.
But he can learn

[Anonymous No.17737237]

>>17737222
Insanity... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. My dear sir.... you are a victim of brainwashing, you use your leftist ideals to give a sense of purpose to your life.... but the truth is.... you are cattle

[Anonymous No.17737253]

>>17734920
Boo hoo you faggot

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17737316]

>>17737237
Hmm?
I’m the one advocating a total social Revolution. Anyone not is advocating return to the old ever failing models.

There will never be an anarchist state. That’s what we’re after.

[Anonymous No.17737381]

>>17737316
>anarchist state
So a power vacuum?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17737597]

>>17737381
No.

[Anonymous No.17737602]

>>17732486
How's Nazi Germany doing?

[Anonymous No.17737645]

>>17737597

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17738318]

>>17737645

[Anonymous No.17738367]

>>17738318
>things don't get done unless you do them
Congrats, anon. What a revelation. Anarchists are great at toppling the current ruling class. What they completely suck ass at is making a system that doesn't fuck them over worse than the previous rulers.

[Anonymous No.17738451]

>>17737602
The same as any nation that opposes usury and international finance

[Anonymous No.17738463]

>>17738367
>Anarchists are great at toppling the current ruling class.
Proof? Anarchists have only ever piggy backed on and attempted to co-opt revolutions started by others. Nobody likes anarchists

[Anonymous No.17738534]

>>17728822
What kind of right wingers exactly?
>>17732614
And yes -- this is exactly why they are some of the few leftists I truly respect.
t. Fascist.

[Anonymous No.17738562]

Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti

[Anonymous No.17738640]

>>17738562
this, that fascist anon itt should read it too

[Anonymous No.17738818]

>>17737602
how is literally any state that transferred control of the means of production to the working class doing? whats that? they never even got 1/100000th as far as national socialism did?

[Anonymous No.17738822]

.

[Anonymous No.17738854]

>>17728822
chomsky

[Anonymous No.17738859]

>>17734897
>Xi will use the infinite power we bestowed on the party to transfer the means of production to the working class and give up his position any day now, we just have to deal with the capitalists first, just trust me bro

you dont even get this level of cope from qtards on /pol/

[Anonymous No.17738890]

>>17737222
off course i can learn, teach me by proving my statement wrong

[Anonymous No.17739138]

>>17728822
>Reading to win arguments
So, you want to learn politics to humiliate your opponents in debate spectacles and to stroke your own ego, and not out of genuine intellectual curiosity. Let me ask you this, does it matter if you believe your own arguments, or do they not as long as they help you win the debate?

[Anonymous No.17739360]

>>17738463
They tend to be the useful idiots that provide the muscle for the initial revolution, but are often rewarded for their efforts with a bullet or a trip to the gulag.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17739384]

>>17738463
Talk about revisionism.
Honest socialists hear “revolution” and they come to help. The vanguardists then recruit the reactionaries to shoot them.

>>17739360
*coup.

>>17738890
‘Kay

[Anonymous No.17739393]

>>17739360
yea, It seems to me like anarchists tend to be even more unhinged and radical than the average leftist and thus make good canon fodder

[Anonymous No.17739399]

>>17739384
im waiting

[Anonymous No.17739427]

Start by reading this

[Anonymous No.17739433]

>>17739384
Talk about revisionism.
anarchists hear "someone else is effectively challenging the established power structure" and see the only possible opportunity they have to gain some ground since they are incapable of doing so on their own accord lol

[Anonymous No.17739661]

>>17739427
>"critique of political economy"
nigga just read basic economic book plse!

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17739772]

>>17739433
Lenin always doubted and was surprised that revolution was happening in his country. Have you ever heard of the Potenkin? Lenin was in Switzerland or something at the time.