/lit/ - Literature

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/wg/ - Writing General Anonymous Wed Jan 20 11:46:30 2021 No.17335156 [Reply] [Original]

prev:>>17307744

Any progress on your novels?

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Suggested books on getting your fucking work done you lazy piece of shit:
>Deep Work
>Atomic Habits

Traditional publishing
> Formatting manuscript
https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-format/
> Write a query
https://www.janefriedman.com/query-letters/
> Track your query
https://querytracker.net/

Other Resources
>General grammar/syntax/editing help
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
> When/where/how should I write?
https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
> What software should I write with?
https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
> Be like Charles Dickens and write serially
https://www.royalroad.com/
> Basic overview of the Screenplay format
https://screenwriting.info/

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 12:23:16 2021 No.17335414 File: 180 KB, 878x683, Instinct bad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] How to into comedic timing?

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 12:38:40 2021 No.17335580
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How long should chapters be? My first was 1800 words, second was 1500, and third is now clocking in at like 2600. Thinking of ditching chapters altogether for now and inserting them later on.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 12:41:33 2021 No.17335613 >>17335580 I average at 3k words per chapter atm

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 12:47:34 2021 No.17335666 >>17335613 Do your chapters encompass single scenes, combinations of scenes? I think the issue is I'm writing a chapter consisting of a single scene, then a chapter of exposition, then hopping back to a different scene.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 12:49:17 2021 No.17335682 >>17335666 It's usually a bunch of stuff that happens in it, no single "scene" is long enough for a whole chapter, but some single events are.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 12:55:25 2021 No.17335715 Anons, making up a believable world is so much harder than I thought. I have to come up with thousands of names and years of history and 90 percent of it isn’t even going to show up in the book.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 12:59:13 2021 No.17335755 >>17335715 That's what you get for writing genre fiction dummy

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 13:02:58 2021 No.17335786 >>17335156 Where are you getting pictures of these nice sweater girls?

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 13:04:12 2021 No.17335796
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>>17335715
>90 percent of it isn’t even going to show up in the book.
Then you don't need to actually come up with it. Beginners love to "worldbuild" because they hate actually putting words down on the page, since they haven't developed the habit yet. Just plan ahead for what you need in the actual manuscript.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 13:32:46 2021 No.17336078 File: 475 KB, 1080x2092, Screenshot_20210120_183203.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Would love any impressions or feedback, lads. Part of a chapter I wrote today, still first draft.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 13:45:07 2021 No.17336186 >>17335580 usually 2-3k words, sometimes highest is 6k. If it's 6k I might break it up into several chapters if it makes sense to do so. But really, the chapter should be as long as needed to tell a story.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 14:00:35 2021 No.17336304

>>17336078
I think it's really good. On it's own I wouldn't be too interested in the crushes of what I presume is a teenage girl, but I'm guessing it's part of a larger story and makes sense in context. Excellently written, really liked the flow. Better than most things I've read in these threads. Gj anon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 14:01:41 2021 No.17336313 >>17336186 Aren't uneven chapter lengths off putting tho

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 14:07:01 2021 No.17336343 >>17335156 This artist needs to learn anatomy holy shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 14:17:31 2021 No.17336403 >>17335156 Why aren't you writing your book much faster by dictate method, /wg/?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 14:40:15 2021 No.17336563 File: 28 KB, 140x148, nicetry.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Hmm, something about the OP image. Enhance, enhance. There it is, I knew it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 14:51:21 2021 No.17336647 >>17336313 I'm not sure what you mean

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 14:59:53 2021 No.17336727 >>17336647 Having a 3k chapter, then a 1k chapter, then a 4k chapter etc will be jarring, won't it? Maybe I'm thinking too much into things. I always assumed chapters had to be roughly equal length.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 15:10:27 2021 No.17336825

>>17336727
Not to regurgitate what I said, but so long as there's a reasonable stopping point for a chapter then I doubt your readers won't care. Now, if you had chapters that are like 500 words, stops abruptly right in the middle of a scene so to speak, and you that consistently and then have random chapter lengths over 1k, then yeah, readers might stop following your work.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 15:14:54 2021 No.17336854 >>17336825 I was thinking more expectations of agents, industry standards in traditional publishing, etc

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 15:22:18 2021 No.17336914 >>17335156 rot in hell animeposter

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 15:30:25 2021 No.17336977 >>17335755 But I like genre fiction.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 15:39:54 2021 No.17337069 >>17336078 Pretty good anon. Flows really well and it’s written eloquently enough without being overly flowery. Good job, I’d read more.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 15:56:34 2021 No.17337218 File: 107 KB, 1243x1080, 1582803761482.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >he uses semicolons in his 4chan posts

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 16:00:52 2021 No.17337253 >>17337218 That's very cringy; autism.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 16:01:16 2021 No.17337257

>>17335715
This: >>17335796
A believable world isn't about all the names and history, it's about consistency. A world that the story you're trying to tell could reasonably happen in. The only information you need to provide the reader is that which is pertinent to the story. Any extra details you've got that you don't use can be added as an appendix.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 16:15:29 2021 No.17337378 >>17337218 Never gonna make it—"senpai".

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:07:03 2021 No.17337826 Just how hard is it to get a literary novel published? I mean, it can’t be that hard, right? The number of people who manage to finish novels, let alone start writing them is vanishingly small. How much competition can there possibly be?

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:12:53 2021 No.17337879

The whole alcoholic writer thing is a dangerous meme. Nothing could be more destructive to your perspicuity and cogency as a writer. Take it from an alcoholic writer. Don't drink and write! You'll dumb yourself down and given enough time forget that you were once capable of seeing beyond your new dumbed down level, thoughts that were once possibilities sober simply vanish and you become an impaired troglodyte who deludes himself into thinking that smacking rocks and twigs together is theoretical physics.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:19:08 2021 No.17337930

>>17337826
I don't know if you're being ironic but it's not that hard. As long as they're of reasonable quality and between 80k - 110k words. Don't believe the retards who claim you have to be a black transgender Muslim etc etc, plenty of straight white guys get published every year. Just look at Shuggie Bain, debut novel of a straight white guy, won the booker prize and now being adapted to a miniseries.

I doubt that 99% of people in these threads (and life in general) have the combination of talent, discipline, and drive to ever finish a competent draft, though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:19:39 2021 No.17337939 how do i describe my main character's tits in a story that isn't meant to be erotic or really have anything to do with tits?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:22:34 2021 No.17337954 >>17337930 Thanks, anon, this gave me some hope. The author of Shuggie Bain is gay, though

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:23:06 2021 No.17337959 File: 196 KB, 1024x851, 1_jvrVlH-ky0CCK8cHk_Mg5g.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17337939

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:23:07 2021 No.17337961 >>17337939 why bother?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:23:40 2021 No.17337966 >>17337961 i just feel like it's kind of important you know. i don't want readers to get the wrong idea.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:25:05 2021 No.17337975

>>17337879
I've always felt that it is a correlation versus causation thing. Writers who drink do not drink because they write or vice versa, it's because they were already damaged or vulnerable enough to be alcoholics and the isolation that writing requires pushed it forward. You often hear it, heavy drinking writers like Faulkner or Hemmingway swearing that they would not be able to do it without booze. Speaking of Faulkner in particular, he would drink after finishing a project to celebrate or in his off hours, never while writing. Does anyone think someone who just downed a fifth of bourbon could produce such interrelated webs of complex language? Or you have Dylan Thomas, who drank himself to death, who was always more of a feeler than a thinker and who probably viewed the sauce as a means to access repressed memories rather than as a source of intoxicated oblivion.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:27:16 2021 No.17337992

>>17337954
There's always hope. You just have to write something good enough. A lot of people in these threads like to claim that quality of a manuscript isn't enough to get it published, but that's not true and simply a massive cope. People like to self publish, which is all very well if they just want to while away time writing as a hobby, or to try and churn out schlock to try and sustain themselves (which means they lack the true artistic temperament necessary to create great literature). Royal Road, amazon self pub, these are all copouts, failures, sub-par pieces of work that just weren't good enough to be traditionally published, or lacked the balls to even try. It's okay to keep to your corner, but don't go pretending you're somehow superior.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:37:44 2021 No.17338064 >>17337961 Why are women so afraid of female characters having their bust size mentioned?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:38:09 2021 No.17338073 >>17337966 it isn't. what wrong idea could they possibly get? and does it really matter if they do get that idea?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:39:13 2021 No.17338079 >>17338064 i don't think most body descriptions are particularly necessary at that level of detail. we all know she has tits, why do we need to know the size?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:41:33 2021 No.17338101 >>17338073 just trying to plan ahead you know. one day i'll be famous and have fans. and fans like to make fan art.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:45:19 2021 No.17338125 Does having problems with my stories mean I'm leveling up, or I'm just shit? >inb4 both

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:56:38 2021 No.17338216 >>17337879 It helps me stop overthinking sometimes. Really a lot of the roadblocks I hit when I'm writing are due to overthinking things. When I'm drunk I can just say fuck it and write something.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 17:59:11 2021 No.17338236 >>17337879 It helps my attention span. Mine's been utterly ruined and I usually can't do something for more than a few minutes at a time without switching to something else. It's much easier for me to get in the zone if I'm a bit drunk.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:06:08 2021 No.17338288 >>17338101 Fanart of novels is pretty rare. I will usually just say a character is busty. It is just a simple way to put it without being gratuitous.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:12:13 2021 No.17338334 File: 69 KB, 628x503, Thirteen_4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] If anyone has anything to say on this passage from my short story, I'd love to hear it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:12:57 2021 No.17338335 >>17338288 >Fanart of novels is pretty rare. Depends on how popular, surely? Probably should include the characters on the cover to help fans.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:19:47 2021 No.17338378

The first thing I did after deciding not to try and get my novel published was add in lines about my female characters' bodies. It felt so freeing.

I didn't describe them using metaphors either. I just said they had big breasts and wide hips and big asses.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:23:57 2021 No.17338403 File: 573 KB, 680x797, 1605566733929.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338378 Based feeler of the forms.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:24:52 2021 No.17338412
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>>17338335
Not really no. Depends on the target audience more than popularity. If you're not making a children's or YA book, fanart from books is basically unheard of.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:25:28 2021 No.17338415 >>17338378 That's how I felt when I started writing porn.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:37:29 2021 No.17338496 >>17338412 but i dont want to write YA just to get fan art but i also suppose that its not too early to retool what im working on into YA

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:42:54 2021 No.17338527

>>17338496
Wait, is your goal for writing just to get fanart? If that's the case, literally just write porn on hentai-foundry. Commission one or two yourself to get the ball rolling and then you'll be drowning in it if your story's not complete garbage.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:45:33 2021 No.17338549 >>17338527 no i want to be a respectable writer. i just want to make sure no one gets the wrong idea.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:45:43 2021 No.17338551 >>17338527 Make sure it's shortstack porn.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:08:56 2021 No.17338733

>>17337939
It's really weird how Powdermage kept describing women's bustlines in military uniforms, especially when they aren't supposed to be big or noticable
>Hey! Look at this chest right here! There's nothing to talk about! Ignore it!
>okay so why did you write this line then

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:11:49 2021 No.17338755 >>17337959 She had a butt like a tempestuous bedsheet and I refused to teabag her

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:14:40 2021 No.17338779 >>17338733 >>okay so why did you write this line then >Because I wanted to.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:15:11 2021 No.17338784 >>17338779 Like it's clear the author has a flat chest fetish it's just kinda weird to force it

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:16:46 2021 No.17338802 >>17337959 She had a complexion like a wrinkled fish and I intended to insult her.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:20:12 2021 No.17338839 >>17338549 There is nothing non-respectable about writing smut, anon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:51:27 2021 No.17339117 >>17337959 She had curves like a tempestuous lemon and I shuddered to ravish her

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:53:48 2021 No.17339132 >>17336078 The content doesn’t interest me, but you are clearly a strong writer.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:32:29 2021 No.17339388 >>17337992 >lacked the balls to even try. It's okay to keep to your corner, but don't go pretending you're somehow superior. Ironic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:37:20 2021 No.17339418 >>17335156 how is she sitting on the chair?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:49:08 2021 No.17339518 >>17339418 With a broken spine. Can't you see the wonderful 90 degree curve?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:50:44 2021 No.17339527 >>17339418 very carefully

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:52:20 2021 No.17339538 File: 231 KB, 836x1200, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] reposting for the last time, would love to hear some thoughts

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 21:04:24 2021 No.17339647 >>17338839 i guess you're right, but then people will definitely get the wrong idea you know.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 22:03:01 2021 No.17340049

I wrote a short poem, I wanted it to be longer but I was running out of ideas and having trouble rhyming, no problem though since I wrote a decent poem yesterday, not everyday is good, this one was more for fun though:

At edge of millenniums
In Crown at chaos’ toss,
Mounts the old imperiums
All of the Cross,
But eons from same
In the picture of it all,
Why has He not came?
The legions of Luther, wood and meager
In tan and red stood
The sons of Keys, gold and eager
In robe and white hood
The men of the Sun, monochrome black
Teethed, metaled, and grinning
Oh why is it mercy, they all lack
Who will triumph, who takes the winning

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:04:53 2021 No.17340517 >>17339538 >husband shot himself >house fell into the sea >took a year to cut down a tree >Don't know how to get a piano, journal found on how to build a piano As an average anon, I'll give it a 5/10.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:55:54 2021 No.17341127

>>17338334
I'm assuming that there is only one character in this passage, speaking aloud to himself, but the 'You' in his first line of dialogue immediately made me picture two people. Realizing he was alone after further reading was kind of awkward. Is it important for this character to be speaking aloud?

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 03:01:52 2021 No.17341646
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My epic fantasy based on African mythology is now finished. I've gone through three drafts now. Had feedback from friends, and also some fans from my self publishing days. I'm so happy bros. I think I'll try trad publishing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 03:10:22 2021 No.17341665 >>17341646 Good luck.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 04:21:38 2021 No.17341913 >>17338334 Apocalyptic. I like it!

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 04:30:22 2021 No.17341945 >>17335786 That is Shirogane Noel, a Vtuber in her second outfit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 05:34:57 2021 No.17342208 >>17341127 You don’t talk to yourself out loud?

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 06:51:06 2021 No.17342501

A ballad i wrote, let me know what you think

Chapped lips and charred caps
Tired feet and trashed boots
'tis the land of the sand
empty of fruit, berry and root

Living still and loving true
Creed of steel, crude and cold
The mercs of Gorn in the dawn
Dressed in blue, green and gold

Riders strong and raging loud
Clanking hooves and creaking bows
The weeny town turned all brown
Soldiers neither brave, strong or close

Bloody hands and butcher’s knives
Screaming child stitching wounds
Now he mires smoke of pyre
Under wind, star and moon

A flame starts takes the place of his heart
Gleaming eyes, holding cries
Sword of old, kingly owned
Shining mail without fail
Banner red for all that bled
Shall I sing thee of this Dune’s king?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 08:33:49 2021 No.17342953 Yesterday I passed the 40k words mark on my novel after having a long period of not writing anything. I also expanded the outline and that solved a lot of problems within the story and characters. Feels nice.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 08:44:48 2021 No.17343015 >>17342953 I look forward to joining you at that threshold in February

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 09:00:12 2021 No.17343105 >>17341646 I like the concept. Best of luck anon. Also, don't beat yourself too hard if your novel is rejected; trad publishing can be a pain. I'd recommend you research some agents if you haven't already.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 09:12:13 2021 No.17343174 >>17343015 Well done anon, keep it up

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 10:49:14 2021 No.17343828 >>17341646 Got any favorite African myths or stories? All I really know of is anansi the spider, but I always like mythology.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 11:10:38 2021 No.17344010 >>17340517 peace

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 12:24:51 2021 No.17344602 >>17341646 Aztec myth is better.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 14:26:31 2021 No.17345791 >>17343828 >anansi the spider Explain that one to me?

>>	Roy Thu Jan 21 15:47:22 2021 No.17346534 File: 161 KB, 713x730, 50B19E28-8AB2-43C5-9407-691E56622AB5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I’m around again. I work in the industry yadda yadda. If you Got questions I got awnsers. My fingers hurt however.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 15:49:06 2021 No.17346545 File: 100 KB, 502x493, 1543697629137.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17346534 will you please publish my book thank you

>>	Roy Thu Jan 21 15:51:51 2021 No.17346561 >>17346545 Listen anon-kun. I more than likely cannot publish it. But that doesn’t mean you should stop going for it, because someone out there will. Keep working hard at it, and you’ll find someone. I highly recommend micropresses

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 16:12:32 2021 No.17346738 >>17346534 Which kind of books are looked for in the industry and which kind of books you looking for? In other words, what are the common traits, unknown to the public, of the books that are getting published, and what's your take on it?

Roy Thu Jan 21 16:30:33 2021 No.17346920
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>>17346738
Truth is, there isn’t any. It all depends on what publisher or imprint you are with. And then it depends on what editors/accusitioners you have.

As an example, if you throw your manuscript at a horror imprint, they obviously will look for horror pieces, but may also look for thrillers as an example. Now the editor A has it, and they look for specifically horror/thriller pieces that feature deeper themes about society. If your piece has that you are in, if you don’t, then it’s tossed. But if Editor B has it, they look for a story that just scared the shit out of them, and sticks with them. So if your piece achieves that, you’re in.

The truth is, each publisher and press is different, and the best way to get an edge is to see what they usually publish, and what their mission statement is. As for the big bois, they publish what they think will make them money. But you’ll need an agent for sure in that case.

All that being said there are a few general rules to follow.

>have a finished manuscript before throwing it in
No one wants your unfinished, unedited manuscript. We want something you’ve worked on for a fair amount of time and that shows some level of polish. It will never be perfect, but it shouldn’t base level.

>that you’ve been published before
Being published SOMEWHERE means that you are at least workable and not a complete asshole when it comes to working with others. So getting published, literally anywhere, is better than nowhere

>we want someone who likes their work
If we get excited about it, you better damn well be excited about it.

As for some commen trends right now:
>no one wants to read quarantine/pandemic related material. People are generally burnt out on it and so if you’ve been spending a fuck ton of time writing around that, tough luck. Sit on it for a bit.
>the push for diversity is becoming a large movement at the moment, so if your piece deals with such, or you’re what’s considered diverse, you might have an easier time atm.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 16:49:58 2021 No.17347066

>>17346920
Thanks for the expansive answer mate, really appreciate it.

>>that you’ve been published before
>Being published SOMEWHERE means that you are at least workable and not a complete asshole when it comes to working with others. So getting published, literally anywhere, is better than nowhere

What are the things that qualify as 'somewhere'? Does self-publishing count? Cause it sounds a bit like asking for experience on an entry level position. Though I suppose getting an agent skips this step (or do agents also seek this?)

Thanks again for your answers, very insightful!

Roy Thu Jan 21 17:09:18 2021 No.17347233

>>17347066
Self publishing wouldn’t really count in this case. (The exception being chapbooks/your own micropress.) What would count is anything else however, with the higher esteemed publishing, and the frequency of you being published mattering more.

As a quick example having a short story published in a local magazine is much much better than nothing, and is looked upon favourably. But if you were published in a magazine that is region or say nation wide, that will obviously mean more. Same thing with frequency. Being published once is great, but being published four or five times is even better.

And again, it can be anything. A short story, a poem, a drama script, etc etc etc. Start small and get the ball rolling. Being published elsewhere shows that you can work with an editor and that someone else has screened your work before, and found it find. It makes you a safer bet essentially.

As for agents, being published elsewhere would help. But something I always talk about again and again is that you should have an agent working for you, rather than the other way around. You shouldn’t be trying to satisfy an agents checklist, or trying to do the right things to impress them. Rather they should be trying to impress you.

You want an agent who is just as excited for your work as you are, because that way they will fight for you in meetings with publishers. You want them excited about your work so that it isn’t just another pay check to them. So if it means bringing it to an agent, and then rejected them because you aren’t confident in their abilities, do it. And if they reject you first, even better because they aren’t the right person for the job. All of this will sound really entitled, and it kind of is. But it shouldn’t matter if you are a big author or a small one, this should be your line of thinking when it comes to representing your work. Because you get one good first impression, and if the agent fucks it up, it makes it super hard go from there.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 17:16:54 2021 No.17347296

>>17341127
He's addressing the sky, but he's really talking to himself about how he hopes it snows. Might not be very clear, though. Either way, thanks for help!
>>17341913
I appreciate it anon, thanks for reading!
>>17342208
I certainly do. One of the reasons I included it.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 17:29:26 2021 No.17347371

>>17346534
I'm not a burger, and I know that the industry differs between countries, but your insight would be valuable nevertheless.

I'm writing a book about the hopeless millenial experience, and I wonder if you (publishers) get plenty books like that? Is this topic oversaturated or not?

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 17:33:57 2021 No.17347391

>>17339538
I think your simple prose works very well with the tone of the story anon. But, I think, there is some room for improvement.
Some sentences could be better structured.
>Their savings were not enough, and she would not sell any furniture because they kept the house in perfect balance, so Anamaria turned to God.
This runs on a bit long. I might phrase it like; "Their savings were not enough and she would not sell any of the furniture because every piece kept the house in perfect balance. So Anamaria turned to God."
You also say Anamaria's husband "fell to his death" at the start but say he shot himself later. I don't know if this was intentional or not.
I really loved the detail you threw in towards the end that their house would eventually fall to the sea, though I'd take out the second reference to it with the firefly nest.
Hope this helps, I liked it a lot more than that other guy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 17:54:41 2021 No.17347533 >>17341646 Based fantasy novel finisher

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 18:20:33 2021 No.17347762 >>17337257 >>17335796 >how to make an absolute shit fantasy: the posts I notice it every time when an author didn't actually have his world planned before starting his story. Hint: Be Tolkien.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 18:25:21 2021 No.17347790 >>17347762 sanderson is behind this post don't listen to him he's part of big fantasy

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 18:26:57 2021 No.17347805

>>17347762
>how to waste time instead of writing: the post
I made a reference map of my novel's country and surrounding countries, but I'm not going map out what's going on in AmericaLand if my novel is set in EuropeLand. I have enough to work with to maintain consistency.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 18:40:56 2021 No.17347900

>>17347805
>but I'm not going map out what's going on in AmericaLand if my novel is set in EuropeLand
But what if your novel is about a war between EuropeLand and AmericaLand and the MC is a war criminal that needs lay low in SwitzerLand? You'd at least then need to pay lip service to why these two are at war and why the third country is safe, wouldn't you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 18:57:06 2021 No.17347992 >>17347900 "He fled to Switzerland after America declared war on Europe." There. Done. Going forward this single sentence serves as a reference for what's happening outside the story and can be built upon later if necessary.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 19:03:47 2021 No.17348037

>>17347805
Of course you need to have a rough knowledge of every aspect of society in all countries that are at all, or could, or should be relevant.
Like, I can't believe I have to say this on the writing board.
What do you think why Tolkien will never be forgotten? His world is "real". You can feel the depth behind every single thing, you know every stone has a history.

People who say "just say something general" or "you can expand on it later" are vastly overestimating the human brain's capacity to simulate outcome without a proper model.
I 100% guarantee, if you map your AmericaLand and its cultural, historical and political landscape, you will come up with things that are relevant to your story, even if the story itself has nothing to do with AmericaLand. In the real world, like in good fiction, countries, places cultures and people aren't island isolated in the nothingness of space. If you don't simulate the surroundings of an open system, you can never hope to archive parity with the real system.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 19:32:29 2021 No.17348231 File: 157 KB, 1000x1000, 14462901_295896997461062_6969745178566443087_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338125 Any feedback on this?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:14:54 2021 No.17348557 >>17338125 just believ in urself :)

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:22:13 2021 No.17348603 >>17348557 If you believe in yourself you will know how to ride a bike

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:26:55 2021 No.17348622

>>17348603
Well writing story is a lot like riding a bike. Your brain is a muscle like any other so if you want to be able to consistently write good stories, you're going to have to exercise. Once you've learned the skill you'll never forget how to use it, but if you don't keep training it you'll have trouble.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:29:48 2021 No.17348639 >>17348622 it was a reference, my guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaIvk1cSyG8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OTUrwC_DVw

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:32:26 2021 No.17348650 >>17347391 thanks for the great pointers mate, appreciate your thoughts

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:34:06 2021 No.17348658 >>17344010 didn't like the rating?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:36:05 2021 No.17348672 >>17348658 nah you made some great points there as well. i used them to change things up a bit

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:39:53 2021 No.17348685 >>17348672 don't take them to heart, i'm just an anon learning how to write like others. the story was bretty good.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:45:19 2021 No.17348710 File: 1.76 MB, 202x268, 1516625430768.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17348685 thanks for reading, anon

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:46:02 2021 No.17348716 >>17335156 OP consistently picks terrible pics

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 20:52:03 2021 No.17348742
File: 65 KB, 677x678, 1610154352703.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I have a hard time writing in third person. First person narration and descriptions feel so natural because its like writing my own internal monologue.

My third person writing whenever I read it feels clunky and unnatural.

Is it natural for third person narration to be unnatural feeling or am I just retarded?

Is their any tips for writing in the third person other then the obvious "practice"?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 21:11:32 2021 No.17348842 Why aren't there any sites that allow erotica with high school characters? Everybody knows high schoolers have sex and everybody had sex in high school. How come when you become an adult people act like it shouldn't be acknowledged?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 21:13:05 2021 No.17348853 File: 44 KB, 422x550, D7hRTALUYAA5Cd6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17348842 I didn't have sex in high school... a gf though, but no sex.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 21:20:10 2021 No.17348901

>>17348842
because it's probably legal stuff. At least in the states, it's kinda a big no no to fuck those underage, and anything remotely connected makes folks uncomfy.

And just because something happens doesn't mean it should, or be talked about/promoted.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 22:04:53 2021 No.17349176
File: 104 KB, 876x492, Dirty-Elantra-copy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

“Immanuel Kant is the greatest thinker in history,” Harry said, “there is no question in my mind that, were he living today, Kant would denounce virtually everything about our modern society.” Harry made a fist. “On his first day in the 21st Century, were he transported here, let’s say, Kant would seek out the intellectuals of our time. He could search every apartment in every city, every farmhouse across every countryside, and the best he would find are sloven hypocrites. In a matter of hours he would rip out his hair. No, in earnest, the best one could do for Kant, to explain the sickness of the 21st Century, would be to lend him a copy of Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World.”

Everyone sat quiet. It was the first time Harry had spoken in class.

“Not exactly the answer we were looking for,” the professor said, “the input is really appreciated, though. Anyone else?”
Harry stood up. “Kant would walk through this campus and feel the centuries of decline weighing on him. I’m sure the weight, however massive it truly is, would almost crush him! ‘Where are the standards?’ he would cry, ‘Where is the rigor?’ Well, the truth is: more than fifty years ago our Universities forgot their purpose. Our Universities gave up their standards, gave up rigor, to become businesses. Businesses that exist solely for profit!”

Everyone watched Harry walk out. He walked down the hallway and tossed his balled up test in the trash. He had failed another midterm. This time it was philosophy.

As he stepped outside, Harry ripped his vaporizer pen. “Why should I put effort into a system that puts no effort into me? Why should I care when I’m seen as disposable? I don’t hold a stake in anything!”

The weather was calm and sunny. Students crossed back and forth around campus in a pattern that probably involved Euler’s number. Harry looked gray. He ripped once more and sat in his Mitsubishi sedan. He turned the key and bass-heavy trap music began rattling the interior.

Harry reclined in the driver’s seat. He lay back his head and stared into the fabric ceiling, letting go a puff of vapor. “My life was over before it ever started. My life’s course was dreamed of centuries ago and was engineered as part of a plan to enslave the global populace. I am simply unfortunate to have been born around the time the realization of this plan became nightmarishly efficient.” Harry shut his eyes. The trap beat and the rapper’s shouting and moans were not nearly cathartic enough for the occasion. “Most days I can give myself over to distractions. Let my senses be numbed. But some days the truth rears its head and I’m reminded. There is no rebellion to join. There is no solace to be found. There is no point even dying to spite them. They do not care.”

The last drop of vape juice was gone. Harry rummaged through the trash in the passenger’s seat until finding a package of mango vape juice, and he replaced the pod in his pen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 22:05:40 2021 No.17349184 >>17335156 God damn I LOVE big anime titties

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 22:18:57 2021 No.17349271 >>17335156 >https://querytracker.net/ lol, scamtracker more like

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 23:02:17 2021 No.17349530

YA novel about cats
looking for feedback

Charlie had been missing for two days.
Smudge the cat sat underneath a bush, resting. She had spent a long night surveying the neighborhood for Charlie’s trail. Her green eyes glistened in the light cast by a distant amber streetlight. Night air filtered in through her pink nose, and her white sides moved gently, in and out, as she breathed in the smell of the evening. There was a strange scent on the wind, and it reminded her of evil.
Her apprentice, Charlie, had been missing for two days now, and it was unusual. He was a rambunctious kitten but never strayed far and always returned to his people at night. He was a good cat.
Smudge shook her head, trying to shake the past-tense thoughts from her mind. He is a good cat; she corrected. And she would find him, somehow. She had surveyed the neighborhood all of the previous day, searching for clues and trying to track his scent, but the trail stopped cold at the park nearby.
After some time, a van pulled up on the street and sat in front of the bush she hid beneath, idling, tooting exhaust from its behind. It was an acrid smell that threatened to burn her eyes.
A man sat behind the wheel of the van and lit a cigarette. The smell was even worse than the car.
Not wanting to move, Smudge sat still and continued to watch as the man got out of the car, cigarette dangling from his mouth.
At the sound of his footsteps moving along on the sidewalk, a muffled barking came from the back of the van.
“Quiet, ya noisy animals,” the man said hoarsely, looking over his shoulder, checking if he’d been seen or not.
He opened the back door, and two large dogs jumped out. Their dark coats shone in the warm streetlight in streaks of muted orange.
“So glad to be out of the back of that van. It smells like pee,” said the larger dog.
“You’re one to talk. You’re the one who peed there,” replied the other dog.
“It was only once.”
“That’s all it takes, obviously.”
“Quit your yapping, the man said, shushing them. He fastened a leash on each of their collars.
“Let’s check the boxes, boys,” he said to the dogs. They were both slobbering, and their tongues lolled out of their mouths as they sniffed the night air and surveyed the area.
Smudge shuddered in her hiding place.
The man walked the dogs up the street toward the park at the opposite end of the road, by the cul de sac.
Could the man have something to do with Charlie’s disappearance? Her instincts told her it was worth investigating. He was the first stranger she had seen in the area in the last few days.
Smudge crept up to the van and sniffed around it. The heavy, toxic smell still lingered, making her eyes water.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 23:03:42 2021 No.17349535 >>17349530 https://www.inkitt.com/stories/adventure/653669 for the rest of the chapter

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 02:19:37 2021 No.17350436 >>17349535 Thanks, will read later.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 03:18:32 2021 No.17350670 >>17338236 Concentration meditation I hear helps with attention span. Might be worth trying

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 03:23:04 2021 No.17350683
File: 25 KB, 500x500, external-content.duckduckgo.com.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>writing ground to a halt for weeks cause I got stuck reconciling the frivolity of the material and the politically charged setting
>decide to completely change the setting
>spend a month trying to rewrite the 20000 words I've done so far, so slow going because I'm working full time and an alcoholic and I lack any ability to think critically instead of instinctively about what I want to do in any given chapter/section/paragraph
>a month later decide to just keep the original setting

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 03:26:56 2021 No.17350694 File: 47 KB, 512x512, Barbara Crampton.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17350683 I don't have time for writing until after February because schoolwork just went from manageable to unreasonable. Feels bad, man.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 03:30:55 2021 No.17350712

>>17342501
For some reason as a totally unmusical person I spend time when I'm at work trying to come up with lines for a Paul Mccartney/Elliott Smith kind of thing.

Baby, you don't know what you're doing to me
I swear sometimes you look right through me
And I can't take it any more
Lately, I swear you do it just to hurt me
That look you give me's just so dirty
And I don't know why you don't leave

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 03:33:09 2021 No.17350725 >decide to let online friends be beta readers >sent to 5 different people over the last month or so >no one has read it still >only 7 pages How do you people find beta readers FUCK

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 03:36:19 2021 No.17350738 >>17346920 Do you know of any fiction (possibly fantasy) publishers that don't care about diversity or pandering to leftists?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 03:45:48 2021 No.17350792 >>17350725 post it here, I've read like 2 posts, and some anon read my stuff and there are a lot of anons giving feedback.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 03:58:40 2021 No.17350842
File: 495 KB, 750x1172, A59AE0EF-336F-45A5-822D-1B1FBA623271.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17350792
I have a few times, have gotten good feedback. My weakest link is phrasing. I’m on mobile right now so don’t make fun of me but here’s a cap of what I’m working on. I used grin/grinning too close together here and need to substitute the first with something else.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 04:11:55 2021 No.17350900 >>17350842 Think you meant alleviate instead of attenuate

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 07:41:40 2021 No.17351801 >>17350725 Pay for them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 08:00:17 2021 No.17351886 >>17346920 >>the push for diversity is becoming a large movement at the moment, so if your piece deals with such, or you’re what’s considered diverse, you might have an easier time atm. well shit

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 08:39:24 2021 No.17352159 >>17350842 can't blame your beta readers, if I opened a text document and had a word like "circumambulating" in front of me, it'd be pretty hard not to immediately close it.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 08:45:33 2021 No.17352214
File: 14 KB, 239x211, FA25613E-A5E1-42AF-AE8B-FC410B05F289.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17345791
Hrs one of those trickster gods. I learned about him for black history month in, like, elementary school. He was also in an episode of Static Shock.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 09:00:29 2021 No.17352292

is there any point in trying to do traditional publishing as a white guy? from what I can tell agents only ask for a full on 1-2% of queries, and then only sign 10% of the fulls. assuming most agents are focused primarily on diverse authors (according to lit agents' twitters this is true for around 60%), why not just go straight into self-publishing? not trying to bait here, if could take advantage of the diversity thing I would

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 09:08:20 2021 No.17352337 test

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 09:14:11 2021 No.17352372 File: 319 KB, 1080x1080, 1590225134638.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17352292 self-publishing is absolutely the white man choice desu, just don't expect to become rich from it

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:00:29 2021 No.17352643
File: 44 KB, 559x548, 1608682723806.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17352292
Your assumption is false. Since you've looked into those statistics, you can just as easily look up all the straight white men who have been published in the last few years. If your writing is good, your story is good, then you have a shot at getting published, which is a fact a lot of people on /lit/ don't like because they assume the schlock they post on royal road or self-pub on amazon really is good, and it's comforting to think they're the victim of oppressive diversity principles rather than simply mediocre. I have never ever seen a good self-published work that remotely compares to the best traditionally published fiction each year. For what it's worth, I'm a straight white 25 year old male in the UK, and I've had 4 short stories published in good journals, and 2 essays, and in December an actual real-life agent said they wanted to represent my work. Am I an outlier? Or did I just work very hard, write well, and be recognised for doing such?

In terms of self-publishing - the answer should be obvious. If you want to write as a fun little hobby without seriously working on improving your craft, sure, go ahead. If you're only focused on trying to make money (which I think precludes you from making any meaningful art anyway), then sure, go ahead - although churning out erotica will make far more than your derivative, breathtakingly insipid addition to the fantasy, sci-fi, horror, or other such genres.

But let me give you a warning, as someone who, autistic though I am, lives in the real world, in reasonably literary circles (I am an English Lit graduate student, have had the above published and secured an agent, and my uncle and a family friend both have their novels out in stores). At a gathering last summer some classmates and I encountered a man who was proudly babbling about having been published. It was, typically, a fantasy book, and he clearly was proud of the world he'd thought up. Who published it? someone asked. Oh, he replied, I self-published. Ah, the first girl said. And at that moment there was a change. Everyone smiled at him, patted him on the back, gave him the praise he so clearly craved, but nobody believe in any way that he had really been published. There are no barriers to entry, and that's a bad thing, because traditional publishing functions as a great net through which the mountains of schlock generally cannot pass. It shows that you have reached a standard few writers reach, that someone sees enough quality in your work to invest money and time in printing it and bringing it to the world.

So will the world always react to self-publishing. Friends, family, acquaintances will say how great it is, pat you on the back, and even offer some approval of self-publishing, how freeing it is, how you're your own boss. But they'll never read your book, never regard it as anything more than a pet project, and will always secretly believe you weren't good enough to make it otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:09:23 2021 No.17352719 >>17352643 >traditional publishing functions as a great net through which the mountains of schlock generally cannot pass lol

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:13:45 2021 No.17352753 >>17352719 There are exceptions to every rule but he's right anon. Self publishing is cringe and a painfully obvious cope.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:26:14 2021 No.17352832
File: 2.88 MB, 2976x3968, IMG_20210122_152542.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17352643
I agree with you, but I think the prevalence of self-publishing nowadays is a symptom of a bigger problem - the dangerous fallacy that 'anyone can be a writer'. Everyone should write, yes, ideally through journaling, to encourage introspection, communication and personal growth. But NOT everyone should try to be a writer. There are literally hundreds of thousands of deluded young men and women who start dabbling with writing in their early twenties, but they have nothing to say. Like all crafts, the jump from 'shit' to 'mediocre' is vastly bigger, and happens much more quickly, than the jump from 'mediocre' to 'good', which is still easier than going from 'good' to 'excellent' and 'publishable'. But people land somewhere between 'mediocre' and 'good', fool themselves with trite stories about grief, sexual awakening, or some other such topic, and decide they have what it takes to be a writer. Everything is derivative, or an imitation of something that's gone before, rather than true self-expression. And because they make 'being a writer' and 'reading books' such a big part of their personal identities, and pick up lots of (ultimately shallow) knowledge while browsing this board, it becomes harder and harder for them to admit they don't have what it takes. There are children who were on the gifted and talented register for English at the age of 8, who wrote and dreamed all through their childhoods, and are simply better than late-blooming dilettantes will ever be. These are the people who will get traditionally published, and seething amateurs, desperate to maintain their own self-image, resort to self-pub.

Take literally any one of the examples posted in this thread (with the possible exception of >>17336078 which is very strong, but impossible to judge fully without seeing context). Compare these with the first page of Quichotte, published by Salman Rushdie in 2019...

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:27:36 2021 No.17352835 File: 3.46 MB, 2976x3968, IMG_20210122_152640.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17352832 ... Or 'A Heart so White', by Javier Marias...

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:31:10 2021 No.17352860 >>17352643 >If your writing is good, your story is good, then you have a shot at getting published Your assumption of what is "good" is false.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:32:59 2021 No.17352873
File: 2.57 MB, 2976x3968, IMG_20210122_152800.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17352835
... Or 'Chess Story' by Stefan Zweig. These are simply books I have physically close to hand, but they are all good, traditionally published, and - most importantly - although their writing styles vary considerably, they all have that FLOW, that RHYTHM, that MUSIC behind the prose that simply makes the words sing. It's found in all good writing. And in comparison the writing of amateurs - the writing of 99% of excerpts I have ever seen on the board - are flat and tuneless. People can't accept that it will take them potentially years of work to get from 'okay' to this level of quality - or, quite possibly, that they will never get their at all, because in writing, as in all art, hard work can never fully compensate for a lack of innate talent.

Stop thinking everyone can be a writer. And if you want it badly enough, believe fiercely enough that you have the raw talent AND work ethic needed to succeed, then get off the writing general of a literature board on 4chan and actually finish that first draft.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:34:34 2021 No.17352884 >>17352873 I can't hear any music on these pages, maybe your neighbor has their radio on really loud.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:36:57 2021 No.17352899

>>17352860
No, good writing is objective, and almost every single thing posted in these threads are shit, and I have never read a good modern self-published work (believe me, I've looked). Zadie Smith's white teeth is hardly outstanding literature, but it's still better than anything I've ever read self-published. Same goes for Colson Whitehead. You just see they're black and assume that's what got them there. Look at the author of shuggie bain - a white male who still beat out 4 minority contenders to win the booker prize. You're coping because your own writing isn't good enough, like most people. This above all, to thine own self be true. I urge you and every poster in these threads to conduct an honest, objective assessment of their own writing. And to ready more contemporary novels, rather than masturbating to Dostoevsky and Henry James. Many are actually very good.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:38:52 2021 No.17352915

>>17352899
>And to ready more contemporary novels, rather than masturbating to Dostoevsky and Henry James. Many are actually very good.
I have, and most of them are rubbish. I'll agree with you only on the point that they flow well which requires a good degree of practice and skill in itself, other than that they may as well be printed with fecal juices as ink.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:41:13 2021 No.17352935 >>17336078 Very good, leave this board >>17338334 Okay but have a long way to go >>17339538 Okay but have a long way to go >>17349176 Not good >>17349530 Mediocre but you're limited while writing YA

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:44:33 2021 No.17352974

>>17352915
Not him, but same goes for self pub. the best self published novels are comparable to bad trad published novels. The very good stuff is trad published. And let's be honest, nobody in real life will ever consider self publishing as a real achievement or respect it in any way. I certainly won't. They're already teaching, studying, lecturing on Kazuo Ishiguro, Cormac McCarthy, Ian McEwan, even Knausgaard (all white male modern writers) but no self published novel is every going to be treated seriously and will inevitably be forgotten. I would honestly rather be unpublished than sell my self respect and self pub.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:48:23 2021 No.17352996

>>17352974
>I would honestly rather be unpublished than sell my self respect and self pub.
Do you think anyone respects you for publishing with commercial parasites? I don't. I don't particularly respect self-publishers either. What I respect is people who write books that are not rubbish, self-published or not. Your attitude is honestly quite sickening. The funny thing to me is that if Nietzsche had not existed in his time, but only came around now to publish his work, he would probably have to self-publish due to the hardline political and philosophical biases of publishers.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:50:45 2021 No.17353016 >>17352996 The people who matter do respect it, and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:51:20 2021 No.17353021 >>17353016 The people you think matter do not matter.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:55:26 2021 No.17353052

>>17353021
They absolutely do, because I'm referring to the people who actually have good taste, who preserve, read and teach good literature. You think they have disappeared, but they haven't, and it shows you've bought into the exaggerated corruption of academia by post-modernists.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:55:53 2021 No.17353060 >>17341646 They will consider it for the diversity shit alone

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:56:18 2021 No.17353064 >>17353052 >actually have good taste According to you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 10:59:14 2021 No.17353083 >>17352643 The tone changes if you're making good money. Respect from people for self-publishing comes from the business side of it. Respect for trad publishing comes from the prestige.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 11:00:39 2021 No.17353100 >>17336078 Not a good passage to judge your writing. Just listing characters and describing them. Not hard. Let's see more.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 11:02:05 2021 No.17353114

>>17353064
Quality in literature is objective. Entering a debate over this, and the Western Canon, would be a different matter entirely. Blood Meridian, Remains of the Day, Atonement, Austerlitz, The Peregrine, 2666 - these are all examples of modern novels recognised as being of high quality, by the people whose job it is to recognise and extol objective value in literature. I do not believe these tastes have been entirely corrupted, and on this point we may have to agree to disagree. But I've read each of those books, and they are all very good, and not one of them would have been self-published because they're simply too good for that. My main point is that the best traditionally published literature is manifestly superior to the best self-published literature, and that this will always continue to be the case.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 11:03:20 2021 No.17353121 >>17353083 Well yeah, I'd agree with that. But the prestige is there for a reason, as a marker of quality. I'd rather be penniless, with a critically lauded trad pub novel, than filthy rich with mediocre writing.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 11:10:21 2021 No.17353189

>>17353114
>Quality in literature is objective
I happen to agree, but that doesn't mean everyone is capable of distinguishing sufficiently between fancy prose and meaningful content. What a midwit or halfwit finds interesting is just fodder to someone already above the heap.
>this will always continue to be the case.
It's hard for me to comprehend how you are so optimistic about the state of the modern world. I've seen books that should have been bestsellers only published by an obscure company because it was not "in vogue." The entire industry is so caught up in its own sentimental flurry of themes, often times a mixture of "neo"-romanticism and various kinds of emotional humanism, that everything of real worth appears to be left behind, whether it's published traditionally or not.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 11:11:10 2021 No.17353199 File: 105 KB, 893x1059, cloud children.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Meme story I wrote on a plane

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 11:15:02 2021 No.17353227

>>17353189
Perhaps I am just optimistic, or perhaps you incorrectly thought those books masterpieces. Regardless, anon, we are clearly on the same side. We are passionate enough about good literature to be having this debate. Maybe it will be recognised more consistently within our lifetimes, maybe not. I hope we do though

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 11:29:49 2021 No.17353352 [DELETED]

>>17346534
Hello fren. Please destroy my preconceived notions. (Publishers/agent is interchangeable.)
>publishers only want light hearted stuff, not depression core or grimdark/gritty or tragedy
>publishers only want stuff that appeals to women, sjw, poc, and woke
>publishers only want chicklit and cottage cozies, unless you're brown (then they'll publish anything you write no matter how self-masturbatory and """""literary"""""-esque
>if you're doing literary fiction they only want MFA style
>publishers only want you if you have your own social media following, which helps with their marketing
>publishers only look at the first 3 pages and you need to have hook and action and style all crammed in there to the point it sounds like you wrote it on speed

How overly pessimistic am I being?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 11:37:35 2021 No.17353418 >>17352643 I want to say this is a good post, but when I walk into a bookstore everything on the shelves is garbage. Thank you for effortposting though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 11:38:12 2021 No.17353425 >>17353199 >water atoms Jesus christ, just noticed that

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 12:26:45 2021 No.17353820 My sequel novel's wordcount is about to surpass the original's.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 12:42:08 2021 No.17353955 Day Jobs - Authors and their Employment (chart by Lapham's Quarterly) https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/arts-letters/charts-graphs/day-jobs Faulkner, Fielding, Bronte, Kafka, Eliot, Trollope all had day jobs. Kinda of interesting to see.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 12:51:36 2021 No.17354019 >>17350900 >>17352159 I was trying to go for postmodernism :0

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 12:57:17 2021 No.17354070 My story is dumb and it makes it hard to write How do I tear down the walls and write it even though it's dumb. I need to free myself of inhibition

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 13:13:34 2021 No.17354177 >>17354070 figure out why it's dumb, and make it not dumb. If it's purposely dumb, then it should be for a reason and you need to figure out what that reason is.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 13:14:06 2021 No.17354180 >>17354070 The story may be dumb but your writing style doesn't have to be.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 13:14:45 2021 No.17354185 >>17336403 Sounds interesting, do you actually do it?

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 13:23:49 2021 No.17354233

>>17336403
I wrote about 200k words that way (one novel, one novella, one short story). It's not a bad method and I could easily get 5k/day or more. The trouble is converting the audio to text without it being a major pain in the ass. It also requires more editing and the pacing isn't as good, for me anyway. I've given up on it for now and just aim for 3k/day typing, which overall is less output and more painful to do but better prose.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 13:24:45 2021 No.17354236 >>17340049 I dig it. Last four lines have a noticeable dip in quality imo.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 13:39:39 2021 No.17354349 >>17335156 Any place to get book sales numbers? We can get numbers for movies, tv, video games etc and verify if they were hits or failures. But where are the book numbers? I think even comic books have numbers but where are the normal book numbers?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:08:03 2021 No.17354528 I've written like 2000 words just rewriting the intro paragraph to this one story a dozen different ways. Most of them seem adequate but none seem to fit perfectly. What do?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:10:03 2021 No.17354544 >>17354177 It's because I started when I was younger and happier and my mind was more liberated. It is hard to keep the tone and spirit of the story alive now that I'm coming back to it as an adult.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:10:33 2021 No.17354548

>>17354528
It's sci-fi/solarpunk. I just don't know how to begin, start with an explanation of the setting (a lab), start in media res before anything happens, as it happens, after it happened. Start with a monologue to form the MC's personality? Some combination of all 3 things. Ahhh the possibilities are killing me

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:11:31 2021 No.17354555 >>17354528 Come back to it later, focus on the first draft. You're not supposed to be editing right now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:12:50 2021 No.17354572 >>17354548 I suggest starting in media res for now. If you decide it doesn't work and you need to go back and add more of an intro it will be easier once you're a good ways into your book and have more perspective on how it's shaping up.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:17:18 2021 No.17354605 >>17354572 Cool, thanks for the advice. I've got it all outlined I just need to have a foundation to build it on.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:23:01 2021 No.17354643 >>17354572 >I suggest starting in media res for now. In media resolution? Like 1080p or 4K?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:30:17 2021 No.17354690 >>17354544 Find a way to work that into your story. I'm sure there's something you can do that both captures your original story but with added maturity.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:40:11 2021 No.17354739

When do I get to walk away from a project and work on other stuff? It's been three days now and I still can't figure out how to fix this one story that is just kicking my ass and I haven't written anything in that time.

I usually finish things, and it's really only my completionist autism that's stopping me at this point from feeling okay working on something else.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:45:45 2021 No.17354769

>>17354739
Start thinking of another project while having this one in the background or as a secondary project. Allow yourself to begin something new but still have this problematic one in your mind.
By distracting yourself with another thing, you relax your brain from your current one which may open your brain for new possibilities within the problematic story. You may end up solving the problem.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:51:27 2021 No.17354804 >>17354769 That would be the plan. Thanks, Anon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:51:47 2021 No.17354806 >>17335156 Is Art Of Fiction the one by David Lodge?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 14:55:36 2021 No.17354828 >>17354806 Help I’m a newfag

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 16:04:35 2021 No.17355270 File: 18 KB, 474x315, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17335156 Should I try to spend time around real criminals if I wish to become a writer of crime fiction? How does one ingratiate oneself to the criminal class?

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 16:14:41 2021 No.17355332

>>17355270
In contrast. Should I write criminal characters because I've spent a lot of time around criminals? I often think about how it'd be a shame to not put my extensive knowledge on dealing with drug dealers to some use.

It's easy to get in with druggies. Have cash (but not too much cash $100 tops) and then pick up and do stuff with them. Make sure to get across that if all goes well there is a lot more money where that came from. If you hit a crack pipe anyone will trust you, even if you're white.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 16:17:01 2021 No.17355349 >>17354806 Writing the Breakout Novel by Donald Maass is the best book I've read on the subject. It's entirely filled with short concise tips for making a gripping novel. Including exercises to develop more fleshed out characters.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 17:16:30 2021 No.17355830

>finally finished my notes and get a good few hours to myself to write
>can barely concentrate because of a gym injury in my shoulder that's left me in chronic pain for the past 3 days.

ffs bros. I feel like I'm wasting time if I don't write but I'm struggling a fucking lot to get anything down. I've done like 200 words in the past hour.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 17:23:02 2021 No.17355892 >>17355332 Yeah, presumably by spending a lot of time around these people you create a lot of novel memories that provide an additional (though it should never be the sole) source of material to craft with.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 18:01:07 2021 No.17356212

Here, I just wrote this very subtle poem.

The only judge in the true marathon is the finish line
Regardless of whether you're upfront or behind
The end is a place that you may never see
We don't even know where it might be
Yet for some who've fallen far to the back
Their position is seen as an offensive attack
The gap between us is unreasonably far
Maybe I should be given a car?
But here there is no judge to be seen
To say well now I see what you mean
And so the only target of these appeals
Is the other runners, see how he feels
And to target his deeply held fears
About who he is and how he appears
So the others now call to the front
You've got strong legs, you take the brunt
Slow down your pace, turn down a gear
So that you might drop to the rear
And let them climb up on your back
And then both of you can rejoin the pack
Yes you'll have to give up your lead
For which you cry, sweat and you bleed
Your legs now carry double the weight
But can't you see how it will be great
That because they who are now using your work
Will, without any more suffering enjoy the perk
And get all the benefits of an upgraded pace
And only you have to give up your race

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 18:01:33 2021 No.17356218
File: 336 KB, 1920x1080, pacific-northwest-wallpaper-1920x1080-wallpaper.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

https://pdfhost.io/v/EqeYmESRq_Chapter_Onepdf.pdf

This is kind of nothing but I tried to at least START my novel. Shit on it if it deserves it, I guess.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 18:13:30 2021 No.17356308 >>17355830 >Chronic pain >Three days Pick one

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 18:27:09 2021 No.17356430 >>17356308 How about I pick both, you cherry-picking cunt?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 19:06:18 2021 No.17356785 >>17355830 It's ok, don't rush. Aim to write a little bit every day and over time slowly increase the amount. Momentum and consistency are important

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 19:31:06 2021 No.17356971 What's the most important aspect of an engaging story?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 19:33:42 2021 No.17356992 >>17352974 >Ishiguro >white

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 19:41:17 2021 No.17357059 >>17356971 explosions

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 19:47:32 2021 No.17357115 File: 381 KB, 1469x942, BZZDKxhB6.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >self pub vs tradpub Seriously? Just write and do what you feel like /wg/, stop doom and glooming.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 21:10:37 2021 No.17357635 >>17356971 tension on every page. The distance between your character and their goal always being hinted at till they get it and the reader can finally climax

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 21:18:45 2021 No.17357715 >>17357635 what are the traits of a good climax?

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 21:40:13 2021 No.17357886

>>17357715
It has to feel earned and complete. You are writing IOU's to the reader that eventually they want to collect or they will hate you for your intellectual thievery, So fulfill their demands. Promise them a fight with stakes, not just personal stakes for the MC but bigger ones. A whole family, a whole town, the whole world could be affected if they lose. Promise them a character who grows to his full potential. Show moments during the story of your hero acting the opposite of how he should, at least in his mind. Create inner conflict. This allows your hero to overcome the inner conflict, creating more tension and higher stakes during the climax. Promise the reader that your MC is capable of saving everyone. Have a well developed side character be threatened by the antagonist and your hero save them spectacular way.
and so on and so on. Set up the bowling pins of a gripping story and then knock em down, the reader will appreciate your hard work.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 22:00:40 2021 No.17358002 >>17357886 >Have a well developed side character be threatened by the antagonist and your hero save them I was with you until I read this

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 22:07:59 2021 No.17358063 >>17358002 its just an example there is a near endless amount of things you can do, I just picked a tropey one. The important thing is that you set it up in the story before hand so it feels natural and not asspulled which is the just the worst

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 22:28:09 2021 No.17358201 >>17348901 I didn't have sex until 26, and that was with my husband. Americans don't need to read about degenerate filth.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 22:30:02 2021 No.17358215 >>17350738 Baen is kinda libertarian leaning. It publishes some very loud conservative types.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 22:34:02 2021 No.17358236 >>17348742 Which tense? Past simple should be easier: imagine instead of monologue that you're recanting a story to someone. Storytelling. Maybe just one friend, maybe an audience (you're on stage)

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 22:38:45 2021 No.17358265

>>17335156
Hey I'm a tourist, never come here but figured this is the best place to ask. I have lots of ideas swimming around the old noggin and I have a compulsion to get them out and into the world, I feel like it may clear up my head a bit and help me focus more on real life and less on fantasy, but at the same time I feel like it's a waste of time.

Now, don't get it twisted, I'm not trying to shit on yall and tell you that writing is pointless, you do you, and do what you enjoy, but I personally can't think of a reason why I should write. I have no intention of trying to make a living doing it and ultimately fiction is completely devoid of purpose and value, and only gives people a cheap escape from reality for a short time, or day dream fuel, and that's pretty much it.

Am I right, or am I wrong? I kind of do want a reason to believe that writing isn't a waste of time because I feel like I'll enjoy it, but I can't find the motivation to move past that first phase of embracement at how retarded what I'm writing is.

What do

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 23:25:18 2021 No.17358548

>>17358265
I know you said you personally think writing is dumb but it seems more like you're afraid of others judging your writing. I don't think you would call something you actually tried your best to write retarded. It is actually possible to write something good with just a bit of practice. And reading counts as practice to an extent,

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 23:27:02 2021 No.17358555 >>17358265 Just open google docs and get to it. You don't need to set anything up and it autosaves your work every second

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 23:32:41 2021 No.17358582 https://pastebin.com/DJhjNMkW First chapter of a science fiction anthology I intend to publish someday. If anyone reads, let me know what you think and please excuse my piss-poor attempts at character dialogue.

Anonymous Fri Jan 22 23:35:20 2021 No.17358589

>>17358265
You are confusing writing as a means to an end and not an end in and of itself. Like with any creative endeavor, many people from the outside, or some within that sect, see the creation of art as something within the process of selling and publishing the thing. It's not enough to paint a painting, it must be put on coffee mugs and an entire website dropshipping process must be made. It's not just writing and playing a song to yourself, it's about recording and mixing it and putting it on spotify so that a producer hears and and buys licensing rights to the song. You are buying into the capitalist vocabulary of commodification. That the end goal of making anything is to extract value from others for one's own. This is simply not what most people do here. Most of the writers in these threads write because they need to. Because without getting the ideas out or performing the action they will go crazy or depressed or kill themselves. Sometimes people derive joy and pleasure from creating. Some people seek the sweet release from a clogged imagination. Some people find the escapism of world building the most beautiful thing. Some people use it as an exercise in learning about themselves. But the thing all these things have in common is that the creation of art is the end itself, it is not about anything else.

I'm not saying that it's unimportant to get your work in front of other people. Far from it. We are naturally communal beings and art is an expression, which is a form of communication, which requires a second party. (even if sometimes that second party is just yourself in the future) But first and formost the creation of art is an action. And that action will not be as "good" as it could be if you aren't creating for yourself.

If you want to write, then you should. Just for yourself. For the pleasure of it, for the mental benefits, for the catharsis. But you won't know why you like to make art until you actually make art.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 23:38:29 2021 No.17358611 >>17358265 You're not entirely wrong, but it sounds like you don't like to read. If that's the case your writing is going to be atrocious. Beyond that you sound like a child, maybe grow up a bit, lose some of that unwarranted self importance.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 23:50:39 2021 No.17358660 >>17358265 How can writing and storytelling be a waste of time when it's been a crucial part of all human cultures since we became a species?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 22 23:51:31 2021 No.17358667 >>17358582 I will read it in a bit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 00:47:22 2021 No.17358962 how do you weave a thematic moral argument into a story?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 00:54:26 2021 No.17359005 >>17358962 >assign different philosophical stances to each character >make characters clash in a way that showcases the main arguments in favor and against their ideologies

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 01:07:46 2021 No.17359082 File: 878 KB, 750x626, aza5oVQJ_700w_0.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] My writing has gotten worse with time and practice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 01:11:00 2021 No.17359104 >>17359082 has it gotten worse, or have you just gotten better at noticing bad writing?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 01:21:36 2021 No.17359148 >>17335414 That bag is going through the frame of the window

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 01:29:44 2021 No.17359196

>>17358582
I only read like two pages but its fine. I'm not normally into hard sci-fi but this was completely inoffensive. Totally effective at getting across the plot. A minor criticism would be that the POV feels a bit jarring and unrefined. There were times I was confused where the narration had switched to and who the MC actually was.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 01:54:44 2021 No.17359322 File: 143 KB, 669x622, 1571399323932.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Reminder to describe your female characters' breasts and legs to make the losers on reddit pissed!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 01:57:56 2021 No.17359347 what's the consensus on the /lit/ quarterly?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 02:02:17 2021 No.17359367 >>17359347 It hasn't accepted my submissions so it can burn, burn in Hell!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 02:02:21 2021 No.17359368 >>17359347 there's a /lit/ quarterly? what's in it? I wanted to propose a small short story /lit/ magazine that we post every month or so.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 02:04:47 2021 No.17359383 >>17359322 yeah thanks but im still trying to figure out how to do that without people getting the wrong idea

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 02:19:10 2021 No.17359447 >>17359368 thats what it is, lurk moar they have threads every like two weeks. There was one like two days ago, it may still be up with links to purchase it. Just google lit quarterly and you will find the website

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 02:22:34 2021 No.17359460 >>17359367 Well I was in the first one, so I don't agree!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 02:22:44 2021 No.17359461 >>17359367 now, now, anon ...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 02:30:44 2021 No.17359508 File: 603 KB, 640x680, 1583904233597.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17358215 Thank you!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 04:01:27 2021 No.17359882 >The pianist plays badly. or >The pianist plays bad.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 04:07:12 2021 No.17359896 >>17359882 The pianist's play was poor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 04:13:37 2021 No.17359910 >>17359882 >The pianist plays. Fix'd. No adverbs, you must be hemingway

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 04:19:46 2021 No.17359923
File: 1.32 MB, 1920x1080, Cyberpunk-Metropolis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Have several ideas for novels
>Scrutinize each idea
>Each have their own strength and weakness
>No matter how I try to work around it, the weakness and flaws are highlighted no matter what I do.
Should, I honestly fuse each idea into separate novels that share the same universe? It'll lessen the flaws, but I'm having cold feet about it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 05:33:41 2021 No.17360206 >>17359882 The pianist plays, his eyes pale, sullen, disturbed. Fix'd. All ad(jectives)verbs, you must be faulkner

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 05:38:15 2021 No.17360223 >>17358589 Very good post.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 06:04:43 2021 No.17360343 >>17335156 I sent my therapist over email my biographical novel where i talk to my therapist

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 06:22:21 2021 No.17360427 >>17360343 Why would you ever do that?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 06:29:48 2021 No.17360468 >>17360343 Does it contain graphic descriptions of the main character's fantasies about banging his therapist?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 06:44:54 2021 No.17360518 >>17360468 No, just my sister.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 06:48:52 2021 No.17360528 >>17360518 You have my full attention.

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 07:17:45 2021 No.17360631

>>17360528

Just nothing important, anon. Just a story of my Father, mother, and older sister, mostly about my older sister on how she was always been kind to me, even though we are few years apart. Really, I thought we had a normal relationship, or so I thought. I don't know what to say, other than at one point, she would start to visit me at night when I was seven around the time our parents were asleep.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 07:35:32 2021 No.17360695 >>17359005 I mean you could but it is often very clunky to do this. Dan Brown style.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 08:11:11 2021 No.17360837 File: 63 KB, 480x360, 488641364.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17360631 And then?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 08:15:04 2021 No.17360857 File: 135 KB, 420x438, 1601743820658.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17359910 >>17360206 i like the sound of both

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 08:22:41 2021 No.17360902 My main characters really need to stop dying.

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 09:14:56 2021 No.17361156
File: 168 KB, 338x476, 1604300501783.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I am totally cumbrained.

I have no problem writing shit and coming up with ideas, but when it's coomer fantasies it's like everything is totally elevated. Same with drawing. I massively improved just from being super autistic about little details being off, where as with a normal drawing I wouldn't even think about it even when I'm trying to get better. I wonder how many writers embrace this and remove the fetish stuff in post. It's obviously it's all over anime/manga/etc, but I remember hearing about it being in random western movies/games/etc as well. And those are just the guys who admitted to it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 09:18:04 2021 No.17361170 >>17360902 make a character who can't die

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 09:25:36 2021 No.17361203 File: 1.14 MB, 1920x1200, starless_wallpaper2_1920x1200.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17361156 Why remove it? High quality porn is nice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 09:26:39 2021 No.17361211 >>17360902 >>17361170 This seems like the thing to do. Write about The Wandering Jew or something.

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 09:57:18 2021 No.17361342

In my story I have a break of two months where two of my characters travel from one pivotal location to another. Some interesting things occur during this time, but it is not where I want to focus the story. Rather, I would like to bring up these things as they become relevant later. However I can't just say to the reader 'don't worry about this middle bit, I'll get to it later'.

I'm not sure how to address this time jump in a good way. The story isn't about travelling from A to B, it's about the characters in relation to the grandeur theme of the plot. Telling this middle portion would include drama, but it slow down the larger narrative.

So yeah any advice would be appreciated on this issue.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 09:59:00 2021 No.17361360 >>17361170 >>17361211 Not a bad idea really

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 10:02:18 2021 No.17361375

>>17361342
It's kind of hard to say what would work best without knowing the story but normally I wouldn't address it at all. The reader is not stupid, he will follow along, so as long as the skipping doesn't antagonize him, in the sense that he doesn't feel tricked by not being told what happened—I'd say it's fine.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 10:27:16 2021 No.17361484 File: 83 KB, 332x288, 1584616812769.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Which style do you follow, /wg/?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 10:31:02 2021 No.17361510 >>17361484 Chicago is aesthetically superior

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 11:46:18 2021 No.17361967 >>17360223 :( thanks. I realized that effort posting in response to a tourist was probably dumb and wouldn’t get any (you)s a little too late.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 11:55:29 2021 No.17362021 Book 2 has now surpassed Book 1 in length at ~89k words.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 12:14:37 2021 No.17362139 >>17362021 way to go, anon

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 12:32:46 2021 No.17362277

I've been writing a lot and I really like a lot of it, but I don't know exactly where to go from here, I mostly just wrote short stories that don't usually finish and I definitely think something is missing but idk exactly what, but I feel like I'm close to making something amazing. It doesn't seem like a lack of inspiration, it just seems like I don't know how to form a longer story.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:05:29 2021 No.17362499 >>17362277 What genre do you write in?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:12:40 2021 No.17362553 How do I phrase this gramatically correctly? Or is it already? >“And this girl who you’re waiting to phone you?” I want it to mean the same thing as, "And this girl you're waiting for a call from?" But it doesn't sound right as is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:13:08 2021 No.17362557 >>17362277 >don't usually finish Finish things. Edit/rewrite things. Learn from your mistakes. Go write more. Rinse and repeat.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:14:32 2021 No.17362566 >>17362553 Sounds good to me, especially as dialog. Also, unless it's a legit reason(time period, setting, etc) or the person just talks a little funny, use "call" instead of "phone"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:17:03 2021 No.17362587 >>17362566 Character's a middleaged 90s English dad, talking about calling someone feels too American. I guess technically it'd be like >this girl for whom you're waiting

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:17:31 2021 No.17362590

>>17362553
That sentence doesn't have to be grammatically correct. It's dialogue so it should just be how someone would say it.

Technically, the "who" should be "whom", but almost no one would use "whom" in real life. The "who" can even be taken out entirely.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:27:41 2021 No.17362668 >>17362587 >middleaged 90s English dad yeah, that makes sense then.

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:39:29 2021 No.17362752

>>17342501
I'm not very familiar with poetry so take this with a grain of salt, but I quite liked it. There were a few awkward lines. For instance, "Soldiers neither brave, strong or close" was a good line but it felt a little off after the last one. Worth working on some more, in my opinion.
>>17348650
No problemo bro, hope it helps.
>>17352935
Thanks for reading anon. Any specific ideas/suggestions for improvement?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:55:22 2021 No.17362876 >>17362499 usually fantasy, I don't really think about it

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 13:57:16 2021 No.17362888 >gatekeeping cunt >english lit major Every time. What do they pump into your heads over there?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 14:17:16 2021 No.17363065 >>17352873 "Writers" make me sick

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 15:31:38 2021 No.17363672
File: 47 KB, 632x852, 1506566942154.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>it's another "stuck writer ends up talking with a personification of his character/muse story"
I know this is cliche bullshit, but it got me writing again after being stuck for a long while. And I'm having fun with it, which I guess is a plus.

>>	Sage Sat Jan 23 15:41:39 2021 No.17363759 >>17362888 Seethe. I bet you think everyone should be allowed to go to university, and that everyone should be allowed to interpret the bible however they want, too

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 15:42:52 2021 No.17363777 >>17363672 What actually is your story about? I'm interested

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 15:48:08 2021 No.17363810

>>17363777
>stuck writer
>gets drunk and passes out
>wakes up to his muse "alive" and walking around his place
I literally just started it, and there's a number of pieces and I'm learning a lot about the characters still, but that's the basic gist so far.

Taking some inspo from how I feel like some of my characters are literally standing next to me, staring me down and cursing me out as I write the bad stuff happening to them and also my own relationship with the psychopath of a muse I have.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 15:54:38 2021 No.17363861 File: 125 KB, 259x804, 1578167587176.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17363810 Cringe masturbatory garbage. Not even other writers like seeing people wank about the struggles of being a writer.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 15:55:38 2021 No.17363868 >>17363861 Why?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 15:58:15 2021 No.17363891 New thread is up, for anyone who wants to move there. >>17363872

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 15:59:04 2021 No.17363900 >>17363810 Dont listen to that other anon, he's just seething that someone else has an idea they're running with. Is it a short, a novella, a full blown piece, just an exercise?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 16:01:40 2021 No.17363916 >>17363861 I like seeing people fight with personified parts of themselves. Also, you've clearly never seen Adaptation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 16:02:01 2021 No.17363919 >>17363900 >he's just seething that someone else has an idea they're running with. It's an unoriginal idea, and also a bad one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 16:03:58 2021 No.17363935 >>17363900 It's a story. It'll be however long it needs to be. That sounds pretentious as FUCK, but idk how to make it not cringe.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 16:39:50 2021 No.17364196 >>17363919 lol, dimwit. Execution is all that matters here the idea is clearly fine

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 17:01:51 2021 No.17364349 File: 184 KB, 1080x1080, pictureofme.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Give me your very best PROTIPS on the art of storytelling. Do it now, I'm waiting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 17:10:19 2021 No.17364412 >>17364349 Add deadlines. They don't just go on a road trip, it's the last road trip with the boys before the one gets married and they have X number of days to get to the wedding. Add a sense of urgency to everything, and thus adds tension.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 17:33:58 2021 No.17364611 >>17364412 its all about the tension, the essence of the page turner. When people ask for books they can't put down they are asking for books with a constant tension at least until the resolution

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 17:53:17 2021 No.17364731 >>17364611 this. the important thing is to make sure the reader always feels the need to know what happens. always

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 18:11:24 2021 No.17364866 >>17364611 >>17364731 so how come I love rereading/rewatching good stories when I already know the entire plot? how come I enjoy a good story that has been spoiled for me before I had the chance to read it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 18:17:02 2021 No.17364916 >>17364866 comfort. but you probably wouldn't do that it you hadn't been gripped the first time. spoilers are different because it only spoils plot not emotions, you big autismo

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 18:36:08 2021 No.17365040 >>17364866 Because this is the /lit/ board where people have attention spans long enough to enjoy something for a purpose other than mindless entertainment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 18:51:15 2021 No.17365128 >>17365040 cope

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 20:32:03 2021 No.17365770 >>17364866 unironically cause its about the journey, not the destination. A good payoff only works if there was a good setup.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 22:48:53 2021 No.17366564 Is it fine to start writing without an ending or a beginning in mind?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 23:02:01 2021 No.17366625 >>17366564 >an ending You're fucked without one >a beginning I dunno how you can start without one

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 23 23:06:48 2021 No.17366647 >>17362587 middleaged english dad ama. 90s were rubbish.

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 23:26:49 2021 No.17366747

>>17366625
>You're fucked without one
Really? Why?
I do have an idea of what I want for the ending but it's not all that clear. The epilogue is pretty clear on my mind, though.

>I dunno how you can start without one
Technically, I have one but I had to move it forward for character reasons.

Anonymous Sat Jan 23 23:30:01 2021 No.17366769

>>17366747
>Really? Why?
You'll end up doing exactly what I've done a bunch of times, and that's write a story where the ending is massively unsatisfying or contrived as all fuck. The two most important parts to a fictional story are the ending and the beginning, in that order.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 24 00:30:22 2021 No.17367127 File: 235 KB, 181x179, 1592496683138.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17352214 THIS BOOK WAS THE SHIT

Anonymous Sun Jan 24 00:34:23 2021 No.17367148

>>17360427
It was therapeutic. Duh.
>>17360468
No, just implications that i had sexual desires for my platonic sister, ignore this guy>>17360518

>>17360837
Again, that was not me.

The real story is just me going through my traumas, for therapeutic purposes. I don't have a blood sister but I had a very brother-sister relationship with a girl and i did have sexual desires towards her. So the novel is just me being fucking honest about everything that i ever repressed. So I can work out my trauma.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 24 02:09:44 2021 No.17367523 File: 447 KB, 666x565, Ancient Egypt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] My story about frogs turned into a lot of navel-gazing. Going to let my mom read it today to see how she reacts to it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 24 03:11:32 2021 No.17367719 >>17363861 This. It's like comic artist making a comic about making a comic, or a director making a movie about a director trying to make a movie. Just by the synopsis, you know the creator is a creatively bankrupt hack

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 24 03:25:35 2021 No.17367759 >>17367719 >or a director making a movie about a director trying to make a movie. So you're telling me Fellini's 8 1/2, Tim Burton's Ed Wood or Orson Welles' The Other Side of the Wind are all creatively bankrupt?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 24 03:27:41 2021 No.17367768 File: 243 KB, 680x709, yes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17367759 There's no creativity required to portray the reality you're living.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 24 03:30:04 2021 No.17367782 >>17367768 >has not seen any of the movies mentioned I see, so you're just an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 24 03:45:43 2021 No.17367841 >>17363672 You’re right it’s a well worn premise, but not necessarily a bad one. If you’re having fun, then that alone is reason enough to write it.

Anonymous Sun Jan 24 05:24:08 2021 No.17368225

>>17335715
if you are into heavy worldbuilding, then keep it up, lots of people have fun just building the world in the first place. If this isn't your thing, I suggest taking the advice of >>17335796 by just putting down what you absolutely need to have fleshed out.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 24 09:16:34 2021 No.17369360 >>17367782 >premise x is bad >b-b-but muh famous once-in-a-million exception You're the idiot, idiot

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