/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17235591]

What books will give me a decent insight into Marxism and it’s criticisms?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17235607]

>>17235591
There’s layers and layers of it.

[F. Gardner No.17235663]

>>17235607
stupid tranny

[Anonymous No.17235672]

>>17235607
I’m interested in primary texts ideally but know very little about socialism in general.

I think Capital is the only text I’ve heard of in passing.

[Anonymous No.17235688]

>>17235591
Kolakowski's main current of marxism, you won't find something more.in depth than those books

[Anonymous No.17235738]

Marxism and Christianity by Martin D'Arcy

Written by a thomist it goes through marxes history, influences, his dialectical materialist thought and politics beliefs, and contrasts them with Catholic thought

[Anonymous No.17235847]

>>17235591
Michael Heinrich's Introduction to Capital and then read Capital. Capital is long but Marx wrote it with a working class general audience in mind, so it's all laid out in a very straightforward (and rigorous) manner.

After that read his more political texts like the 18th Brumaire and the Critique of the Gotha Program. Frederic Jameson and David Harvey also have valuable companion texts to Capital if you want more insight than just what Heinrich gives. Heinrich also has a multi-volume biography of Marx that I've heard is pretty much the definitive bio (but I haven't read it yet). After that you can start digging into Marx's influences. Hegel is obviously the big one, but you should also read the German Romantics, Ricardo, Smith, Proudhon, Engels, Bauer, and Stirner if you want to understand Marx's contemporary milieu.

And then there are literally hundreds if not thousands of thinkers who develop/interpret/utilize/criticize Marx, including pretty much every Critical Theorist from the 20th century, so you'll be much more informed when you read those :)

[Anonymous No.17235858]

>>17235688
This is very good and more than enough.

[Anonymous No.17235867]

Thomas Sowell - Marxism

[Anonymous No.17235871]

>>17235867
nah

[Blarty Hongo !WegkZP4tiw No.17235900]

>>17235591
This is the only book you need. No need to read confusing and probably boring source texts; all you need to do is remember the relevant death tolls so that when someone starts defending Marxism, you can shut them down by saying, "Oh yeah? Well, Stalin killed 200,000,000 people!"

[Anonymous No.17235906]

>>17235871
Kill yourself retard.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17235916]

>>17235672
There’s Luxemburg’s
(The critiques I’m more familiar with are from the specifics or Stirner and Bakunin, but they don’t refute his economics any)
And then I just skipped to modern thinkers like David Harvey, Paul Cockshott and Wolff. Whatever worth that is to you.

[Anonymous No.17235921]

>>17235916
Oh yeah? Well, Stalin killed 200,000,000 people!

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17235925]

>>17235906
>Posts Sowell
>calls someone a retard

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17235932]

>>17235921
I’m not a fan.
Bakunin knew shits like him would come along.

[F. Gardner No.17235936]

>>17235932
tranny

[Anonymous No.17236163]

Read Marx's actual works.
Economics:
-Das Kapital
-Wage Labour and Capital
Philosophy:
-Theses on Feuerbach
-The Holy Family
-The German Ideology
Politics:
-The Communist Manifesto
-The Critique of the Gotha Program
-The Civil War in France

For criticisms of Marx's politics, I recommend Bakunin's writings. Anarchists haven't really critiqued his Philosophy or Economics tho

[Anonymous No.17236164]

>>17235900
>literally filled with falsehoods that have been debunked years ago
>still being recommended by hogs on the right
Every. Fucking. Time.

[Anonymous No.17236517]

>>17235900
Imagine still believing that anticommunist piece of misleading shit. That book is a desperate try of making the capitalist society believe that the communism and the URSS are a creation of the Devil. But a lie told 1000 times becomes a truth.

[Anonymous No.17236527]

>>17235932
>>17235925
>>17235916
>>17235607
Do you want to bounce up and down on my cock? :3

[Anonymous No.17236539]

>>17235925
He's one of the few good thinkers who have not only been a Marxist in his youth but turned around, but also read read Das Kapital in its entirety and then refuted it.

If you are looking for an insight into, and a critique of Marxism, Sowell is a good place to begin.

[Anonymous No.17236545]

>>17235672
Get a Marx/Engels reader if you want primary texts without doing all the reading.

If you want a short introduction, Marx's Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844

[Anonymous No.17236550]

>>17235591
Unironically pic related. It’s a very objective and unbiased book, and if not for the last chapter which contains all of the criticisms, it’d be easy to think he’s a Marxist.

[Anonymous No.17236563]

>>17235871
Have you actually read it?
If you want a concise introduction to Marxism, it's pretty much the best book on the market
It explains the definitions of things like value as Marx would have understood them at the time
He goes over how Marx understood and interpreted Hegelian dialectics to build his own
He dispels a lot of dumb myths about and against Marx
He goes over basically every aspect whether it be his interpretation of history, the economics and even Marx's views on Democritus
He reserves his criticisms for the very end, he's neutral for the rest of the work

[Anonymous No.17236679]

>>17236550
>very objective and unbiased
>Thomas Sowell
doubt

[Anonymous No.17236782]

>>17236679
The only thing resembling a bias against Marx except for the last chapter is that be is occasionally epigramic when he should have been more detailed (this is in reference to das Kapital)
He is the only author I've seen actually delve into what Marx had in mind when speaking of the "dictatorship" of the proletariat

[Anonymous No.17236810]

>>17236782
Marx wrote very little about the DotP

[Anonymous No.17236827]

>>17235591
Read Bordiga. You'll see what Marx was writing about and how nearly all leftist movements (of the communist/socialist type) are bastardizations of Marx and aids in the integration of the outcasts into the value form.

[Anonymous No.17236849]

>>17236550
>Marxist economics
imagine reading that and not just throwing it in the trash. Marx's entire writings were a criticism of political economy and this retard wrote a book about Marxist Political Economy fucking kek. It doesn't matter though Marx has been dead for so long that it doesn't matter what he thought anymore. He's just an idea. Nobody reads Marx anymore just what more recent people had to say about Marx.

[Anonymous No.17237429]

>>17236679
lmao don't take my word for it, read it for yourself

[Anonymous No.17237441]

>>17235591
Eugen Bohm von Bawerk, Karl Marx and the Close of His System

[Blarty Hongo !WegkZP4tiw No.17237813]

>>17236517
>>17236164
I was joking. I despise argumentum ad death toll.

[Anonymous No.17237859]

>Workers! Join us!

[Anonymous No.17237870]

>>17237859
Snopes debunked this

[Anonymous No.17238196]

>>17235591
For main criticisms within the socialist frame, I'd set about learning of the contrasts between Marxism and collectivist anarchism (Bakunin).

>>17235738
and this for contrast with old-world order. You should give the then ruling class their chance to explain their view for a broader context.

[Anonymous No.17238249]

>>17237870
debunked what

[Anonymous No.17238317]

>>17235591
>If you have the time
Kapital, and Karl Marx and the Close of his System, by Bohm Bawerk
>quick rundown
Marxism, by Thomas Sowell, covers both aspects.

[Jesus No.17239006]

>>17235591
DSM-5

[Anonymous No.17239983]

>>17235591
Gramsci - Prison Notebooks

[Anonymous No.17240218]

From Marx: an analysis of how capitalism works and why it is a dynamic but irrational system; and of class struggle as the motor force of history. Marx and Engels believed that working people are capable of overturning capitalism and creating a society based on human need not profit.

From Lenin: an understanding of imperialism — of the revolutionary potential unleashed when oppressed nations struggle for self-determination, and of the tendency of socialists in imperialist countries to fall into reformism. Lenin also emphasized that the capitalist state must be completely destroyed and he made breakthroughs in building a revolutionary party.

From Mao, the methods of the mass line and the united front — how to learn from the experiences and insights of workers and broad masses to formulate demands and build struggles that are as broad and inclusive as possible yet also really challenge the system.

[Anonymous No.17240253]

>>17235688
>>17235858
Question: does one need to have read the Capital before reading Kolakowski?

I haven't and won't read the Capital for the same reason I haven't and won't read Newton's Principia: even if it were correct (which Marx isn't and Newton is), it would still be seriously outdated.
What I have read and am willing to read further are Marx's minor writings, but time is precious and I could learn to read a new language (namely Romanian) in the time it would take me to read Capital.

[The wise one No.17240267]

If we are talking about marxist economics and you want just one book then pic related is your best bet, there BB makes a "what if Marx was right" analysis of Kapital.

If you are talking philosophy then read Hegel, Marx and Gramsci

[Anonymous No.17240332]

>>17240267
Dilate and kill yourself, tripfaggot.

[Anonymous No.17240341]

>>17235607
>>17235663
>>17235900
>>17235916
>>17235925
>>17235932
>>17235936
>>17237813
>>17239006
>>17240267
You will never be a woman.

[Anonymous No.17240348]

>Workers! Join us!

[Anonymous No.17240362]

>>17240341
>>17240332
Not a tripfag, forgot the name from another thread. Also, fuck you too you fucking niggers

[Anonymous No.17240368]

>>17235591
>marxism
Capital and Communist Manifesto
>its criticisms
None valid so far. Other than being called "cope, tranny, seethe, you'll never be a woman" etc. on 4chan and pictures of transgender assholes accompanied with "this is you!"

[Anonymous No.17240405]

>>17240368
You will never be a woman.

[Anonymous No.17240415]

>>17240368
>none valid so far
USSR going strong? North Koreans have full bellies? Poverty erased in China?

[Anonymous No.17240416]

>>17240332
newfag

[Anonymous No.17240420]

>>17236810
>He didn't read the Marx Engels correspondence

[Anonymous No.17240427]

>>17240416
>>>/r/eddit

[Anonymous No.17240444]

>>17240420
I did and don't care.

[Anonymous No.17240508]

>>17235900
>Be Stalin in the early 1930s
>Take grains with force from peasants
>S͟e͟l͟l͟ those grains on the international m͟a͟r͟k͟e͟t͟ in exchange for m͟o͟n͟e͟y͟ (USSR exporte 3.3 millions of tons of grains each year during this period).
>Inject this money into the industry, in order to make it grow, like any Capitalistic Capital accumulation
>Communism r-right?
>>17237813
Okay you were joking. Anyway, i'll post for stupid righoids who unironically believe this.

[Anonymous No.17240576]

Go back to /leftypol/ you fucking losers. Disgusting subhumans.

[Anonymous No.17240582]

>>17237813
>>17240508
You will never be a woman.

[Anonymous No.17240648]

>>17236550
well at least he's smarter than every other conservative

[Anonymous No.17240657]

>>17236810
If he did he might've come up with a better term than dictatorship

[Anonymous No.17240742]

>>17240253
>Question: does one need to have read the Capital before reading Kolakowski?
you only need some basics in philosophy so you don't get lost in the first chapters, Kolakowski will explains to you the major ideas in the Capital so you don't need to be acquainted to it beforehand

[Anonymous No.17240755]

Also if you want a fine understanding of Marxism I would suggest avoiding any book recommended by butterfly as it's obvious they haven't done the job correctly

[Anonymous No.17240771]

>>17235591
Reminder if your critique of capitalism is grounded in instability, unfair rent distribution, or struggles between sociological classes, you're to marx essentially utopian & advocating for the sort of socialism the schumpeters of the world found reconcilable with capitalism. if you think the real meat of the problem is simply that surplus value extraction is unfair you'd be much better adjusted being a georgist or roemerian coupon socialist type, a lot less to figure out.
a critique of capitalism is properly grounded in all human life becoming through its embedding in commodity relations merely an appendage of unthinking capital sitting over us and brooking no escape.

[Anonymous No.17240776]

>>17240771
Marx reading list:

Brumaire
Manuscripts
Value, Price, and Profit
Gotha
Grundrisse
Capital 1, 2, and 3 (yes you need to read all of them. 1 is not self-contained.)

Further Reading:
Michael Heinrich's Introduction (note: not an introduction)
Heinrich's 3-4(?) volume biography of Marx that he is still writing (vol 1 is out)
Love and Capital (another biography)
Isaak Illich Rubin's Essays on Marx's Theory of Value
Time, Labor, and Social Domination by Postone
Value by Diane Elson
Workers and Capital by Tronti
Law and Marxism by Pashukanis
Notebooks by Gramsci
The Principle of Hope by Bloch
Arcades Project by Benjamin
The Production of Space by Lefebvre
The Making of the English Working Class by Thompson (also read his essay on time.)
Poverty of Theory by Thompson
The Black Jacobins by C.L.R. James
Antiquity to Feudalism and Lineages of the Absolutist State by Perry Anderson
The Essential Lenin
The Essential Stalin
On Contradiction and On Practice by Mao
Dialectical Logic, Intelligent Materialism, and The Dialectics of the Abstract and the Concrete in Marx's Capital by Ilyenkov
Lenin and Philosophy and Other Essays, I and IS Apparatuses, and Philosophy of the Encounter by Althusser
H and CS by Lukacs
Marx: Towards the Centre of Possibility by Karatani
Eclipse by Gilles Dauve
What Was the USSR? Towards a Theory of the Deformation of Value Under State Capitalism by Aufheben
Reading Marx Politically by Cleaver
Marx's Inferno by William Clare Roberts
Moneybags Must Be So Lucky: On the Literary Structure of Capital by Robert Paul Wolff
In the Long Run We Are All Dead: Keynesianism, Political Economy, and Revolution by Geoff Mann
Crack Capitalism by John Holloway
The Origins of Capitalism as a Social System: The Prevalence of an Aleatory Encounter by John Milios
Critical Theory and the Critique of Political Economy: On Subversion and Negative Reason by Bonefeld
The 4 volumes of Open Marxism
There's No Such Thing as "The Economy": Essays on Capitalist Value by Samuel A. Chambers
Marx at the Millennium by Cyril Smith
Critiquing Capitalism Today: New Ways to Read Marx by Frederick Harry Pitts
The Dialectical Imagination by Martin Jay
Money and Totality by Moseley
The Constitution of Capital: Essays on Volume 1 of Marx's Capital by Bellofiore
The Origin of Capitalism: A Longer View by Ellen Meiksins Wood

[Anonymous No.17240782]

[Anonymous No.17240783]

>>17240771
>>17240776
"Capitalism does not always get what it needs, including from capitalists, because capitalists do not necessarily do what capitalist society needs. Hence the needs of capitalism do not explain the actions of capitalists. Capitalists are not capitalism; they are themselves market-dependent actors within — which is to say, subject to — capitalism. This means in part that the needs of capitalism are a concept of limited explanatory power: needs can go unmet, breakdown is possible. “Interests,” as the economic sociologist Karl Polanyi explained, “like intents, remain platonic unless they are translated into politics by the means of some social instrumentality.” That is to say, how social needs are met is itself in need of explanation. That meeting of needs is heavily constrained by the weight of history and social forces — path dependency is real; people do not make history in the manner of their own choosing. At the same time, whether or not capitalism’s needs are met is in important respects a contingent outcome, taking place in historical time through the behavior of contending social actors — people do make history, using partial, situated, and fallible knowledge."
Injury Impoverished: Workplace Accidents, Capitalism, and Law in the Progressive Era by Nate Holdren

[Anonymous No.17240841]

>>17240648
>>17240742
>>17240755
>>17240771
>>17240776
>>17240782
>>17240783
You will never be a woman.

[Anonymous No.17241093]

>>17235591
>All of Marx work
>All the work by the Frankfurt school
>Bakunin
>Proudhon
>Early 20th Century Anarchists like Goldman and Burkman
>The entire critical theory canon

[Anonymous No.17241099]

You are retarded and shouldn't participate in conversations you know nothing about. Maybe you shouldn't get your understanding of history from right wing Youtubers.

[Anonymous No.17241125]

>>17235672
Capital is a very hard read, I must admit. Actually took me a long time and multiple books to understand marxism deeply.

[Anonymous No.17241136]

Why does everyone hate butterfly so much? What’s the story behind this poster

[Anonymous No.17243244]

>>17240648
Holy based

[Anonymous No.17243265]

Mein KAmpf

[Anonymous No.17244572]

>>17240648
Is this immanent critique?

[Anonymous No.17244670]

>>17235591
The black book of Communism.

[Anonymous No.17244673]

>>17235591
Road to serfdom by Hayek

[Anonymous No.17244916]

>>17244673
>>17244670
>>17243265
trash

[Anonymous No.17244945]

>>17244916
Y chromosome.

[Jesus No.17244956]

>>17240341
sure. you will never be a man.

[Anonymous No.17244959]

>>17244945
you have klinefelters

[Anonymous No.17245007]

>>17235591
If you read all of Main Currents of Marxism you’ll have more than a decent insight into Marx. It’s very thorough, and includes long discussions on ideas and figures related to Marx as well as comprehensive looks into Marx himself. Moreover it discusses the historiography of Marx and socialism and dissenting views and interpretations of his works.

It’s a lot to fucking read, but they’ve condensed the three books into a single volume now. Like the other anon said it’ll help to have some basic understanding of philosophy before you tackle the first several chapters, as it opens with discussions on the nature of reality and the relation between mind and matter vis Aristotle, Plato, Plotinus through Kant, Fichte, and Hegel.

It also has some nice information on Marx’s character and he kinda was an edgy egomaniac. Lasalle made him seethe like crazy

[Anonymous No.17245012]

>>17235591
>>17235688
Nice dubs
OP he is right, this is the most definite work on the history and evolution of Marxism.

[Anonymous No.17245284]

we need to be reading marx more than ever in these fucked up times

[Anonymous No.17245402]

>>17245284
>>17245284
No. We need to be reading Ayn Rand, Thomas Sowell, Hayek, Rothbard, Friedman, Jefferson, Locke and open the god dang country up for business. Marx is what got us here.

[Anonymous No.17245447]

>>17244956
>>17244959
>>17245007
>>17245012
>>17245284
Dilate.

[Anonymous No.17245455]

>>17245402
redneck detected

[Anonymous No.17245648]

>>17240648
>if you are willing to read Marx's works & his Communist Manefesto or similar writers
You need to read mien Kampf vol 1& 2 and other National socialist works aswell...


Its a brainless move to not read about Both sides and only take in one side of the political debate/divide that is so rampant among these groups
It is important to know the true motivations behind a faction/nation and the viewpoints and not just take the victors propaganda to villan-ize the looser of the war as fact, true,or fair.
>Its only a warcrime if you loose, and its Justified Means & self praise for the victors
Its a matter of doing your due diligence for well rounded knowledge and understanding of history and general politics.

Sometimes knowing the era & background/influences can bring great insight to political contemplations/works of the past.

[Anonymous No.17245881]

communism got the best hoes tho

[Anonymous No.17245905]

Marx's entire is just "free will somehow exists despite everything being conditioned through the past and independent of our own abilities or action"

[Anonymous No.17245911]

>>17245455
You do know the etymology of 'red neck' right?

[Anonymous No.17245933]

>>17245402
Imagine being pozzed by neoliberalism so badly you read uncle Tom Sowell? Lmao

[Anonymous No.17245961]

>>17235591
Op you are asking too much of yourself. You should be more specific - do you want to learn philosophy, political science, economics, cultural studies, geography, methodology? Then break down Marx from there but also use Marxism to find answers to specific questions about society you have. Otherwise it's going to be a big blur that will be a waste of years of reading.

[Anonymous No.17246097]

>>17235591
Can /pol/ niggers and /leftypol/ trannies leave this thread? I want to read real criticism of Marxism that isn't biased towards left or right.

[Anonymous No.17246138]

>>17236517
>But a lie told 1000 times becomes a truth
Same as the 6 million

[Anonymous No.17246217]

>>17235591
Communist Manifesto^
Gulag Archipelago
Jordan Peterson.

[Anonymous No.17247048]

>>17245402
Name a single marxist politician in the US who's affected any significant policy

[Anonymous No.17247082]

>>17247048
Bernie Sanders normalized state run medicare policies

[Anonymous No.17247255]

>>17247082
Bernie Sanders isn't a marxist (probably, he legislates as a social democrat, there's the chance he might be a crypto-communist but that's conjecture), his policies are all socdem. State run healthcare is done in almost every liberal country in the world.

[Anonymous No.17247286]

>>17247255
I am pretty sure he is a Marxist and a Democratic Socialist given his Anti-capitalist rhetoric. His policies are SocDem because Socialism is outside the overton window.

[Anonymous No.17247301]

>>17247082
the us having an ass backwards employer tied healthcare system that no other first world country has is what normalized that

[Anonymous No.17247366]

>>17235591
This (my) post will be almost entirely irrelevant to this thread, probably.
Explain to me exactly what the lobster means, regarding Zizek.

[Anonymous No.17247776]

>>17247366
Lobsters are an inane analogy Jordan Peterson makes for hierarchy being natural and just.

[Anonymous No.17248265]

>>17245284
start with the Greeks faggot