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File: 62 KB, 768x448, 1853px-Giovanni_Domenico_Tiepolo_-_The_Procession_of_the_Trojan_Horse_in_Troy_-_WGA22382-b82832fff0cd43c692587ac382105fd4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
17111679 No.17111679 [Reply] [Original]

>can only defeat the trojans with the help of deceit and trickery
how is this guy supposed to be a hero again?

>> No.17111686

>>17111679
Is he jewish by any chance?

>> No.17111695
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17111695

>>17111679
By using superior strategy.
This is Athenas boy. The poster boy for European monarchy

>> No.17111705

>>17111695
>The poster boy for European monarchy
that would be Aeneas sweaty

>> No.17111719

The Greeks didn't see those traits as a bad thing, the Romans did

>> No.17111727
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17111727

>>17111705
Aeneas is the model for Superman, the ideal monarch, and how they see themselves. Odysseus is how they are. At best

>> No.17111737

"...his excellent grandfather Autolycus- who was the most accomplished thief and perjurer in the whole world..."
Odyssey book 19, describing Odysseus' grandfather
And all through the Odyssey Odysseus is constantly lying and making up stories.
This is why Plato banned poets from the city in the Republic

>> No.17111738

That's Odysseus' entire character: being the best liar ever, he even it for no reason at times. The funniest thing in the Odyssey was when Athena comes to him in disguise and he makes up a bunch of bullshit to her and she knows it's bullshit but finds it charming.

>> No.17111742

>>17111727
That would be Agamemnon, brainlet.

>> No.17111775

>>17111737
holy based

>> No.17111788
File: 55 KB, 595x897, BC-Plato-LesHip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
17111788

>>17111679
Read Hippias Minor. I shilled that book and you fucks all said you had it out already.

>> No.17111902

Stay mad, Vergilcucks. Odysseus chads win again.

>> No.17111921

>>17111788
never seen it shilled here but thanks for the recommendation

>> No.17112078

>>17111738
>That's Odysseus' entire character: being the best liar ever, he even it for no reason at times. The funniest thing in the Odyssey was when Athena comes to him in disguise and he makes up a bunch of bullshit to her and she knows it's bullshit but finds it charming.
Remind me of this passage.

>> No.17112088

>>17111679
Maybe your conception of a hero and how they behave is retarded?

>> No.17113048

The greeks correctly understood cleverness as a heroic virtue

>> No.17113063

>>17111679
>diomedes and odysseus literally killed a spy

>> No.17113083

>>17111679
Dante put Odysseus in Hell for a reason.

>> No.17113175

>>17111788
I got physically mad at Socrates while reading this

>> No.17113260

>>17111679
Well, the war started because of Trojan deceit and trickery.
It's fair revenge for what Paris did. Twice. (Aside from the abduction of Helen, there was also that time when Paris and Menelaus fought and Paris refused to admit his clear defeat.)

>> No.17113304

Hermes was a god of trickery and deceit. He steals Appolo's cattle on the day of his birth, walks them backwards to make Apollo think he went the other way, and winked at Zeus when pretending he didn't do it, which is why people cross their fingers or wink when telling lies today. The belief in the noble lie goes deeper than just the character of Odysseus. Don't forget Lycurgus' reforms in Sparta, where boys were encouraged to steal but were punished harshly if they were caught.

>> No.17113507

they ain't christian knight ideal you retard

>> No.17113517

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arete

>> No.17113526

>>17113304
Man I loved reading Greek mythology. It is so fun.

>> No.17114843

>>17113063
they literally kill a man in his sleep (Rhesus)

>> No.17114853

>>17111679
>how is this guy supposed to be a hero again?
he isn't
t. Philostratus

>> No.17115166

>>17111679
Ajax literally addresses this in Posthomerica and kills himself because of it

>> No.17115173

Greeks, like the ancient Chinese, understood that craftiness and guile were virtues

>> No.17115185

>>17113304
Also Odysseus is Hermes great grandson, so his cleverness is a divine aspect.

>> No.17115328

>>17111738
He was testing waters. This man literally went through hell

>> No.17115844

>>17114843
did not get to that part yet im on book XI. that's messed up. yep im siding with the trojans

>> No.17116577

bump

>> No.17118187

>>17113063
spy isn't very accurate i shouldve said a disarmed scout

>>
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