Are literary critics fraud? If they know so much about what constitutes good literature, why don't they start producing? They just need to take the same pen they write critical pieces with and write stories.

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Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:32:29 2020 No.16880940 [Reply] [Original]

Are literary critics fraud?
If they know so much about what constitutes good literature, why don't they start producing? They just need to take the same pen they write critical pieces with and write stories.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:33:46 2020 No.16880948 >>16880940 What a dumb question. Almost as dumb as that man's face.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:35:44 2020 No.16880959 >>16880940 No, not fraud, grift.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:35:54 2020 No.16880960 >>16880940 Dumb question. Literature needs 4 elements to exist: the author, the work, the reader and the interpreter or transducer. The critic is the transducer. But yeah, Bloom was a fraud.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:35:58 2020 No.16880961 >>16880948 what's dumb about it? Give me one strong reason why someone would know what constitutes good literature but wouldn't know how to create them?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:37:44 2020 No.16880967 >>16880940 Bloom tried and churned out the damndest thing imaginable.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:37:51 2020 No.16880968 art critics are all frauds. they have neither the talent to produce great works nor the guts to put themselves so honestly on display. it's much easier to sneer from the sidelines than lace-up and play.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:39:09 2020 No.16880978 >>16880961 Because certain people lack creativity and find more satisfaction in talking about what already exists. Even a kid can understand this.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:39:12 2020 No.16880979 They do produce literature. Literary criticism is literature.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:42:37 2020 No.16880998 >>16880960 Based and Maestropilled

Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:42:56 2020 No.16881000

Critics made sense before The Information Age. You didn’t have time or money to try it all, or even the resources to discover its existence. That’s all gone away now. There’s no reason to take anyone’s word for anything when you can just experience it yourself immediately

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:45:42 2020 No.16881018 >>16880978 To assess if a literary work is good or not, you'd need to know what elements make a work good. It doesn't make sense that you'd know everything about the elements of good writing but somehow you can't write it yourself

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 15:46:01 2020 No.16881020 >>16880961 Why can niggers talk about being human despite not being humans?

Anonymous Thu Nov 26 18:07:35 2020 No.16882082

>>16880940
Are literary critic critics fraud?
If they know so much about what constitutes real knowledge of what constitutes good literature, why don't they start criticising. They just need to take the same pen they criticise critics with and write literary critiques.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 21:13:52 2020 No.16883189 >>16880940 Bloom lied about being able to read a page a second.

Anonymous Thu Nov 26 21:19:33 2020 No.16883231

>>16880940
They just love reading and the spiritual progress it gives you (like Bloom and Frye, the good ones) and hopefully contribute something worthwhile as a signpost and guide for others who enjoy reading. They may or may not acknowledge that they don't have the talent or drive to actually contribute excellent creative literature, which is a very hard thing to do and to admit

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 21:20:57 2020 No.16883241 >>16881018 If you've ever tried seriously writing you'd know the toll it takes on someone to create.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 21:27:49 2020 No.16883274 To think of all the strange things that have been read, and the breadth of mind that has occupied your hallowed hall. This is to recognize criticism. Not an effete review of the latest bilge, but as a true survey of the important stuff.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:18:59 2020 No.16883629 >>16880960 Best post in the thread

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:22:07 2020 No.16883650 >>16881018 You can understand how to build an engine but be unable to build it yourself. Same idea.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:22:34 2020 No.16883652 >>16880960 Maestro is so disingenuous when he says this and proceeds to place the critic at the center. But of course, just as he'd say, why the fuck should we care about anything that he has to say?

Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:23:18 2020 No.16883654
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>>16880940
Harold Bloom only knew English, Hebrew and Yiddish. This guy wasn't in a linguistic position to judge the "Western canon." He could've at least learn French, fuck. What a hack. If you want good literary criticism, read poets like Ezra Pound and Baudelaire, who knew several languages and read much of the canon in the original.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:25:05 2020 No.16883667 >>16883652 Art needs theory although there's probably something to say about people that are solely critics

Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:25:45 2020 No.16883671

>>16880940
Bloom was definitely a fraud. People have spotted him sitting in university libraries autistically flipping through multiple pages a second just to cement his persona. He’s also on record complaining about Harry Potter by criticizing passages that aren’t even in the book. Also he got filtered by DFW.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:30:44 2020 No.16883688 >>16883241 so they're just lazy, not incapable?

Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:31:06 2020 No.16883692

>>16880968
>the sidelines
Anon.. literary criticism is a discipline just like painting, professional horseshoes, neurosurgery, etc., are disciplines. Each discipline is a 'field of play,' and no one engaged is 'on the sidelines'. Were Bloom (or any other literary critic of note) 'ots' we would not be discussing him.. Like Biography, the Familiar Essay, the Novel, etc., Literary Criticism is just another form of literature, the one Bloom happened to be best at. Your idea of criticism is absolutely off the mark.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:32:13 2020 No.16883696 >>16883629 >>16880960 I don't get it

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:33:11 2020 No.16883702 >>16880960 >a fraud You're wrong. What have you read by him?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:33:23 2020 No.16883703 >>16883671 >he got filtered by DFW. how

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:44:56 2020 No.16883768 File: 34 KB, 400x386, 1594949128282.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16883671 >People have spotted him sitting in university libraries autistically flipping through multiple pages a second just to cement his persona

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:46:05 2020 No.16883775 >>16883696 it's pure elitism, he's suggesting you need someone to explain to you what it is that you're reading. like an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:47:20 2020 No.16883784 >>16883671 >People have spotted him sitting in university libraries autistically flipping through multiple pages a second just to cement his persona Fucking based autistic larper

Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:55:23 2020 No.16883832

>>16883671
>Asked about novelist David Foster Wallace, who took his own life in 2008, but who has a new book out, “The Pale King: An Unfinished Novel,” put together from manuscript chapters and files found in his computer, Bloom says, “You know, I don’t want to be offensive. But ‘Infinite Jest’ [regarded by many as Wallace’s masterpiece] is just awful. It seems ridiculous to have to say it. He can’t think, he can’t write. There’s no discernible talent.”

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:56:07 2020 No.16883840 >>16883832 Didn't he say this because DFW said he sounds like an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:57:22 2020 No.16883851 >>16883650 >You can understand how to build an engine but be unable to build it yourself Not really. If you understand how to build an engine, you should be able to build it yourself

Anonymous Thu Nov 26 22:58:23 2020 No.16883857

>>16883667
On the contrary, theory needs art, not the other way around. Writers do everything theory and criticism judge without being aware of it. But an onanistic fuck like Maestro can't see that. And it's a shame, because his analysis are good, but his theory is very much flawed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 23:06:38 2020 No.16883910 >>16883857 Question: is Maestro a poet or novelist as well? If so, any recs?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 23:10:12 2020 No.16883927 >>16883910 No, but he has translated novels if I remember correctly. I know that he works as a translator too.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 23:20:30 2020 No.16883986 >>16883910 >>16883927 who is this maestro??

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 23:22:19 2020 No.16883992 >>16883986 Spanish literary critic who wrote a 3000 pages long treatise on literature and uploads his lectures to youtube.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 26 23:22:49 2020 No.16883996 >>16883840 Yes. Bloom is a fraud retard. All his polemic statements show a good deal of bias.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 01:05:18 2020 No.16884512 >>16883996 AT least he was "big ups" for the western canon at a time when it would have been very easy to be another post modern communist subversive.

>>	The dead Fri Nov 27 01:13:10 2020 No.16884553 >>16884512 Look between the lines. Bloom wasn't a based jew like some here like to think.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 01:50:44 2020 No.16884697 >>16884553 Well I've never read his lines first hand anyway I mean, I dunno. Does he go into some protocols of Zion stuff on page 150 of his major book?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 01:53:39 2020 No.16884709 >>16884553 >Look between the lines. Bloom wasn't a based jew like some here like to think. Tell me more. To me he is pretty useful with his ideas of "The Canon and the Classics".

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 02:23:19 2020 No.16884833 >>16883857 Pretty much every good author doubles as a theorist

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 02:45:59 2020 No.16884954 >>16883851 Wrong. Only correct if you meant assembling an engine.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 02:48:53 2020 No.16884970 >>16883671 No shit. Anyone claiming to have a photgraphic memory is a fraud.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 02:53:43 2020 No.16884990 File: 13 KB, 207x300, The_Flight_to_Lucifer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16880967 it's probably genius, but only enjoyable if you read 1000 pages per hour with an IQ of about 150 +

Anonymous Fri Nov 27 02:55:20 2020 No.16884993

>>16880940
Every person who reads a work of literature has a reaction to it and an interpretation of it.
A critic is a person who makes it their career publishing their reactions to the art of others. Its possible that some of them have created and will continue to create responses that enrich the artistic experiences of others by providing them with insights or ideas they otherwise might not have had. By this measure, a critic does not need to be able to make art independently, rather, to be a good critic is to have a response to art that others in the audience find compelling. The majority of critics are pseud hacks who will never create a good piece of criticism, but that is true of everyone in every field.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 02:57:36 2020 No.16885000 >>16883652 He puts the author as central but recognizes that the transductor is the person who has the most power over how people interpret a work "Cervantes está más vivo que Dios"

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:01:18 2020 No.16885019 >implying you can write good literature without being favoured by the muses or God

Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:07:40 2020 No.16885043

>>16880940
Because writing great literature means writing something that has not been written before, and that's a whole different beast than analyzing the concepts objectivated in already produced literature.

But yeah, I think that any critic that has bothered to look at what they read and understand it instead of using a text to produce propaganda for their shitty ideology of preference is capable of writing mediocre/good literature (see Pound); and, of course, any great writer is also an amazing literary critic, but the critics they deliver are implicit in what they write.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:18:11 2020 No.16885075 >>16880948 >that man Do newfags really

Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:21:02 2020 No.16885081
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>>16883840
DFW shat all over him in this Infinite Jest endnote. So if Harold Bloom accepts that DFW is a great writer, he only increases the odds that this passage will be cemented forever into the Western canon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:22:06 2020 No.16885084 File: 74 KB, 633x288, bloom.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16885081 Wrong Bloom image.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:44:26 2020 No.16885172 >>16885084 Bloom BTFO

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:46:46 2020 No.16885178 >>16880940 Read his novel. Trash just like anything else he wrote.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:53:04 2020 No.16885208 >>16880961 Lack of ideas, creativity and intuition but analitical ability.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:55:42 2020 No.16885218 >>16881018 You can know the form but that doesn't necessate the ability to create the content

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:57:22 2020 No.16885227 >>16883231 Bs comparison. Lit crits praise lit Lit crit crits don't praise lit crit

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:58:29 2020 No.16885233 >>16880940 your judgment is clouded by modern sensibilities. The client of a restaurant does not need to cook to be able to say what tastes good or not. He just needs experience in taste.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 03:58:51 2020 No.16885235 >>16885227 Intendet to tag >>16882082

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 04:01:05 2020 No.16885243 >>16883851 If you don't have the parts?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 04:01:42 2020 No.16885248 >>16883775 Pretty sure he says somewhere that reader and interpreter can be the same person. He's describing two separare actions, reading and critique.

Anonymous Fri Nov 27 04:12:46 2020 No.16885300

>>16881000
The absolute opposite is the truth. Because of the information age now critics are the single most important entity on deciding what to read, becasue dozens of books are shat out every day. You need a a critic with a good taste who spends his time reading shitty books, so you don't have to. A critic is first and foremost a curator.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 04:15:11 2020 No.16885312 >>16883851 How about microprocessors? There's crowds of PhDs inventing, designing and simulating microprocessor architectures, but none of them could build it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 04:15:56 2020 No.16885313 Another literary criticism thread where I see Frye mentioned once and Bloom nearly twenty. Hopeless. For the love of God, go and read anatomy of criticism - it will do you more good than arguing about bloom's fraud and other such biographical nonsense

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 04:18:35 2020 No.16885327 >>16880940 Same reason why Red Letter Media has 1,23 million subs, but their movie Space Cop flopped. It's an own profession to critique and provide insightful and/or entertaining insights into a work.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 04:19:43 2020 No.16885330 >>16880940 >why don't they start producing? Maybe they don't want to. Not everyone wants to write fiction.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 04:20:05 2020 No.16885332 >>16885313 Garbage. That faggot hasn't written a single literary work in his life. I'd much rather read Wordsworth's literary essays.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 04:59:33 2020 No.16885496 >>16885332 pretty sure the thing Northrop Frye wrote about William Blake is pretty /lil/erary my duderino

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 08:11:12 2020 No.16886280 >>16884990 This is a blight on fiction. How can somebody read fiction all his life, yet can't write even a skeletonwork in it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 08:13:11 2020 No.16886289 >>16884993 Bloom is definitely in the majority, much as he would deny it.

Anonymous Fri Nov 27 09:50:26 2020 No.16886727

>>16885000
He states in the CRL that "there is no literary artwork without a critic" because only the critic knows how to interpret a literary work in order to make it an artwork. Of course, that's absolutely onanistic, to say the least, because for him a critic can only exist within Academia (with a capital A) and Academia needs a State to function. His ideas are so hierarchical only because they place him at the top, without realizing that literature goes beyond the State and most of the time goes actually against such hierarchical political authority. Art doesn't need a professional critic to interpret it in order to be so. For Maestro, if Cervantes is more alive than God himself, it is only so because Maestro himself, not any other critic, can read Cervantes. Or so he seems to think. I needn't point out how ridiculous such a notion is.

Anonymous Fri Nov 27 09:57:09 2020 No.16886761

In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 09:58:28 2020 No.16886768 Who are some good critics other than him

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 10:04:51 2020 No.16886815 >>16880960 Does this apply for other arts too? Music criticism for example?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 10:07:27 2020 No.16886830 >>16886761 >We risk very little Wrong. Critics get shit all the time, if they like or don't like something. Not to mention the majority of people think your job is pointless and constantly try to invalidate you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:20:34 2020 No.16887909 >>16885043 So reading books about literature by writers is better than reading critics?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:22:26 2020 No.16887919 >>16887909 Yes, obviously.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:22:30 2020 No.16887920 >>16885233 Food is different. It's a simple yes/no answer of whether it's good. Critics don't just issue yes/no answers about literature

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:23:36 2020 No.16887926 >>16880940 Depends. Nabokov was based.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:24:21 2020 No.16887933 >>16885243 That is a matter of lack of resources, not capability. Critics have all the resources they need to produce literature

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:27:14 2020 No.16887953 >>16885313 The lack of Frye readers on /lit/ is disheartening.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:33:10 2020 No.16888008 File: 1.05 MB, 1200x1200, the critic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16880948 Oh really?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:34:19 2020 No.16888022 >>16881020 You looking to get fucked up, boy?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:35:49 2020 No.16888036 >>16887953 In fact, there's probably a lot of overlap between Frye and /lit/'s sweetheart Maestro

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:36:01 2020 No.16888037 >>16880960 How is this an argument in favor of critics who are not themselves authors? The fourth ‘element’ isn’t required

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:36:32 2020 No.16888039 >>16888022 >niggers once again displaying their gorilla instincts

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:36:52 2020 No.16888044 Not only is James Wood a better critic than Bloom, he also writes his own novels.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:40:10 2020 No.16888062 >>16888044 His fiction is better than Bloom for sure, but still trash.

Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:40:29 2020 No.16888064 [DELETED]

>>16888039
Well, we can discuss the meaning of 'fucked up' or you can go ahead and show proof of the claim that niggers are not human and your subsequently implied gorilla inference. I'll wait, I've literally nothing to do today except for giving you the attention and the beating you deserve and you're going to enjoy it perhaps, we shall see.

Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:49:38 2020 No.16888125 [DELETED]

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>>16888064
Humans are conscious (i.e. they have qualia). Niggers don't have qualia and hence aren't humans, but rather p-zombies. Source: am a nigger.
Additionally, niggers look like gorillas and procreate by raping horses.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:51:59 2020 No.16888141 >>16880960 >Literature needs 4 elements to exist: the author, the work, the reader and the interpreter or transducer. it only needs the first 3

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 13:55:48 2020 No.16888166 Literature needs 4 elements to exist: the author, the work, the reader and the netflix adaptation

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 14:59:34 2020 No.16888624 >>16888125 >>>/pol/

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 15:08:27 2020 No.16888684 File: 36 KB, 500x469, 1603600140574.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16888039 embrace monkey, faggot ass white boy

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 15:18:02 2020 No.16888755 >>16888039 >>>/pol/

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 15:19:17 2020 No.16888765 >>16881020 >>>/pol/

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 15:40:24 2020 No.16888890 >>16885313 >>16887953 what's the difference between Norry and Trilling? Please, no shitposts or uninformed bashing, i am asking sincerely

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 16:50:11 2020 No.16889390 >>16885300 Most shit books can be identified with less than a paragraph of investigation.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 27 17:02:53 2020 No.16889474 >>16887920 Have you ever, even once in your life, read a real food review? Or do you just like the sound of your own keyboard?

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/lit/ - Literature