/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16875956]

>Starts a jihad that kills sixty-one billion people
Nothing personnel, kid

[Anonymous No.16876198]

[Anonymous No.16877445]

>>16875956
Is Dune the only Western fantasy/sci-fi not inspired by Christianity but instead Islamic/arabic ideas instead?

[Anonymous No.16877644]

>>16877445
I’d be shocked if no western writers were influenced by Arabian Nights.
But exclusively Arab/Muslim influence and NO Judeo-Christian influence would probably be rarer

[Anonymous No.16877647]

>>16877445
Well, it's also inspired by Christianity, hence all the references to the Orange Catholic Bible.

Which is kind of hilarious because the big two religious mergers of the distant future are a) Islam merges with Zen Buddhism and b) the Irish finally settle their religious differences

[Anonymous No.16877684]

Junger has a book (that I haven’t read) called Aladdin’s Problem. And he did discuss Arabian Nights in his Paris diary.

[This isn't a gorillionpost(...) No.16877984]

>>16875956
Who else has inappropriate chuckles at the part where whatsisface says that Hitler's death toll was "pretty good for its time".

[Anonymous No.16878115]

>>16877984
So even in the future in another planet the hoax continues...
It seems like the juden is like cockroaches, unending

[Anonymous No.16878122]

>>16878115
>It seems like the juden is like cockroaches, unending
4000 years and counting, goy

[Anonymous No.16878327]

>>16877445
The Arabic references are entirely superficial and strictly used for exotic picturesque purposes (no one cared about Islam in 1960).

[Anonymous No.16878640]

so this book is pro-religion, and pro-jihad right? how is the movie going to handle that

[Anonymous No.16878657]

>>16878640
What the fuck does that even mean?

[Anonymous No.16878684]

>>16878657
well in a post 9/11, secular and democratic age how can popular culture approach a story about a guy that is a hero for installing a theocracy and wiping out all opposition in a holy war.

[Anonymous No.16878706]

>>16878684
Sounds like the Iranian revolution in space.
Iranian Dune movie adaptation when?

[Anonymous No.16878743]

>>16878706
Based Imam Effendi Khamenenienienenoenineneo

[Anonymous No.16879161]

>>16878640
>so this book is pro-religion, and pro-jihad right?

No and no. It is utterly cynical about religion.

[Anonymous No.16879175]

>>16878684
The secret, of course, is that Paul Atreides is not a hero.

[Anonymous No.16879178]

The Dune sequels were so fucking bad they retroactively made me hate the first book.

[Anonymous No.16879237]

>>16879178

How does it feel to have set a new record for worst opinion ever? I can't even comprehend how someone could be that wrong about anything.

[Anonymous No.16879269]

>>16879237
Well, it depends on what he meant by "sequels". If he means Brian Herbert's work, I can only agree.

[Anonymous No.16879281]

>>16879269

Why would Brian Herbert's work be relevant to a thread about Dune novels tho?

[Anonymous No.16879353]

>>16879281
There are madmen and heretics who claim he wrote some alleged novels with titles like "Hunters of Dune" and "Sandworms of Dune" but no reasonable man believes that

[Anonymous No.16879379]

>>16875956
Dune
>shitty book full of 2D cardboard characters and plotholes the size of Brazil all serving a really shitty 'American Capitalism and Jews = bad, Palestinians = good" narrative
Why is anyone surprised the sequels suck so bad?

[Anonymous No.16879472]

>>16879379
Assblasted kike detected.

[Anonymous No.16879487]

>>16879472
No, just someone with a reading comp above 5th grade level that can remember what I read 3 pages ago.

[Anonymous No.16879525]

>>16879487
What did you read 3 pages ago?

[Anonymous No.16879552]

>>16879379

[Anonymous No.16879560]

>>16879525
At this instant, I know not what sudden self-possession came over my spirit. Staggering as far aft as I could, I awaited fearlessly the ruin that was to overwhelm. Our own vessel was at length ceasing from her struggles, and sinking with her head to the sea. The shock of the descending mass struck her, consequently, in that portion of her frame which was already under water, and the inevitable result was to hurl me with irresistible violence upon the rigging of the stranger.

[Anonymous No.16879570]

>>16875956
Yes

[Anonymous No.16879583]

>bores humanity nearly to death
>humanity gets so fucking bored they have to expand across the entire galaxy
>only weakness is a genetically crafted turbo-waifu
>keeps his best buddy around for shit and giggles
>makes all female army as a joke

[Anonymous No.16879588]

>>16878640
The book is about how all these horrible things were a necessary thing, no matter how objectively bad they or their perpetrators were.

That's still not something I can imagine modern society accepting. It may be even more corrosive to the current ideology than apologism for theocracy.

[Anonymous No.16879591]

>>16875956
If you look around you can find some early pre-Tolkien stuff like Dunsany and other writers of “Oriental Stories,” but the Inklings really Christianized fantasy.

[Anonymous No.16879628]

>>16879591
But the whole pulp tradition predates Tolkien. Every sword-and-sandal hero quaffing big flagons of wine and stealing jewels from the serpent-priests exists before the Inklings.

[Anonymous No.16879629]

>>16879552
Not bait.
Look, the most obvious plot hole is Yueh.
Suk Imperial Conditioning as described in the book
>Mental, emotional, and psychological conditioning so thorough, so complete, and so strong that no one any where, any time, ever has even been able to compel a graduate to purposefully harm another person - ever! It is so complete that if the Emperor learned that someone was able to break the conditioning the Emperor would annihilate the entire noble house that did it out of fear and horror.
How they convinced Yueh to kill innocent people in order to betray his employer, causing the deaths of thousands, all in a plot to murder the Baron?
>"Be a real shame if something were to happen to your wife".
Fucking.
What?
I mean, this is so fucking stupid I had to be convinced to keep reading.
In REAL LIFE there are multiple instances where people WITHOUT such conditioning allowed their own children to die rather than betray a trust.
'Threaten his wife' is the first thing a two-bit thug from Cleveland would do on a guy that owed him $500 and we're expected that not only does
>the highest level of conditioning against harming another
not cover cover 'even if they threaten a loved one' that but that in centuries no one else had ever tried it?
Shitty fucking writing and if you DIDN'T realize that was a really, really obvious plot hole and story problem you need to be checked for brain damage.

[Anonymous No.16879635]

Almost finished with Chapterhouse Dune, will be glad when its over. Everything past Children of Dune was a nosedive in quality

[Anonymous No.16879637]

>>16879629
Minor correction - they did not "threaten" Yueh's wife.

They straight up just started torturing her and promised him that if he did what they said, they'd STOP.

[Anonymous No.16879656]

>>16879635
Fucking THIS. By God-Emperor, Herbert was actually writing in broken fucking English. In GE, someone actually says "This is two books," and yet Herbert has the GALL to pretend as if his psuedo-intellectual babble has any actual merit.

[Anonymous No.16879662]

>>16879656
SOunds based.

[Anonymous No.16879673]

>>16879637
I don't have a stake in this since I've never read Dune, but I have to say, I really fucking hate how morbid literature has become in the past few decades.
>"hmmm today I'm going to read about some assholes torturing someone's wife and blackmailing her husband with it"
No thanks.

[Anonymous No.16879686]

>>16879175
>Paul Atreides is not a hero.
That's a dumb theme.

[Anonymous No.16879702]

>>16879637
So fucking what?
When JP Getty's received his grandson'e fucking ear in the mail with a ransome demand and promises he would slowly be tortured to death the untrained, unconditioned man said,
>"No. All the rest of my grandchildren would be immediately targeted for kidnapping, condemning my entire family to eternal terror. And they would likely kill him immediately on receipt so he could not identify them. Never."
Just one of many such examples from real life from guys WITHOUT 'the best possible conditioning'.

[Anonymous No.16879756]

>>16879686
>terrorist that routinely killed innocents to strike fear into his enemies
>hero
pick one

[Anonymous No.16879777]

>>16879756
That's heroic as fuck. It's also not moral or ethical.

[Anonymous No.16879784]

>>16879777
>'Know that guy that killed all those innocent people to cause fear?'
>'Yeah?'
>'That makes his a hero'
>'So you think suicide bombers are heroes'
>'Fuck yeah'
>'Stay away from my family, gaffot'

[Anonymous No.16879812]

>>16879784
Heroism is just the fact that you're elevating yourself above normal inactivity. Paul isn't a hero because he can never elevate himself above the psychopathic euphoria of billions.

[Anonymous No.16879828]

>>16879777
>>16879812
You're an actual retard. Just because something is daring, doesn't mean it is heroic. Heroes don't have to follow slave morality - it is better if they don't - but Machiavellian brutality is the farthest thing from heroism. It's just being a calculating, cold bastard.

[Anonymous No.16879929]

>>16879784
Suicide bombers and kamikaze fighters are heroic. Cope, seethe, etc.

[Anonymous No.16880085]

Gets eyes destroyed by illegal atomics but can still see like a fucking chad

[Anonymous No.16880093]

>>16878640
You didn’t read it did you

[Anonymous No.16880098]

>>16879379
My Jewdar is going crazy

[Anonymous No.16880147]

>>16880098
Joke's on you - I'm a devout Catholic with a foreskin

[Anonymous No.16880157]

>>16879929
Hero
>a person admirable for noble qualities
>Moron that kills people by blowing himself up
pick only one

[Anonymous No.16880180]

>>16878327
It's really just base orientalism.

[Anonymous No.16880184]

>>16877647
>the Irish finally settle their religious differences
HOW

[Anonymous No.16880199]

>>16880085

still too pussy to take the troutpill tho

[Anonymous No.16880219]

>>16875956
>>16878706
Based

[Anonymous No.16880245]

>>16878327
well, other than the references to Mahdi, al-Dajjal, and Sufyani, sure.

[Anonymous No.16880258]

>>16879812
Heroism includes the concept of being and acting noble.
Blowing yourself up to murder 14 year olds eating pizza ain't noble

[Anonymous No.16880259]

>>16880184
On that note, don't literal fucking Jews show up in Heretics/Chapterhouse? And isn't their religion completely unchanged after what, 30,000 years?
What the fuck was Herbert smoking?

[Anonymous No.16880263]

>>16879784
Anyone would do good for their people. Heroes do horrible things for the sake of their people.

[Anonymous No.16880268]

>>16879702
>all these Dune lovers avert their eyes as they walk by the truth

[Anonymous No.16880347]

>>16880263
False. Ends and means cannot be separated. Evil is evil.
I'm a decorated combat vet. If a general had
told me to kill civilians on purpose, I'd have arrested him.
grow up

[Anonymous No.16880395]

>>16877684
Not really, he actually reads the Bible twice during the war.

[Anonymous No.16880412]

>>16880347
I'm sure you would've enjoyed being thrown into a military prison and court martialed for undermining a general. Those civilians would've died either way.

[Anonymous No.16880446]

>>16880347
The US military bombed well over 100,000 civilians on purpose with the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and in doing so prevented probably millions of deaths. "Evil" is very much subject to circumstance.

[Anonymous No.16880467]

>>16877684
Aladdin's problem has very little to do with Islam. Dune is only tangentially about Islam; it's really about the Chechens fighting the Russian empire, as Herbert read "Swords of Paradise" before writing it.

[Anonymous No.16880801]

>>16880259
He knew

[Anonymous No.16880887]

>>16875956
I read Dune, it's start was ok, but it's ending was horirble, should I bother reading the other books?

[Anonymous No.16882410]

Bump

[Anonymous No.16882454]

>>16879673
Lol. Fucking retard. You’ve probably never read anything written before the 20th century.

[Anonymous No.16883695]

>>16879629
The subtext is that Yueh's wife had seperately conditioned *him* as a Bene Gesserit pawn- Jessica notes this in the scene where she talks to him soon after they get to Arrakis.
So Piter levaraged this, and apparently the Bene Gesserit conditioning won over the Suk School conditioning.

[Anonymous No.16883865]

>>16883695
That's why Jessica is so sensitive about the subject when talking to Yueh. She understands the level of psychic damage dueling programming can do to a mind.