/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16854900]

Was the French Revolution an incidence of proto-social justice? Were French revolutionaires proto Social Justice Warriors?

[Anonymous No.16854914]

They thought so at the time, but in reality they were only capitalist running dogs bringing down the old feudal hierarchy to make way for the new capitalist ruling class.

[Anonymous No.16854984]

>>16854900
Yes.

[Anonymous No.16855029]

>>16854914
So yes.

[Anonymous No.16855036]

>>16854900
maybe

[Anonymous No.16855050]

>>16854914
>in reality they were only capitalist running dogs bringing down the old feudal hierarchy to make way for the new capitalist ruling class.

That's an interesting thesis. What are the SJWs of today then? They sure aren't ushering in any new elite so they seem to have transplanted the clericalists of old, they are now the buffer-zone for defending the capital elite against the plebs.

[Anonymous No.16855120]

>>16855050
See
>>16850867

[Anonymous No.16855296]

>>16855120
that doesn't help at all

[Anonymous No.16855304]

>>16854900
>ere French revolutionaires proto Social Justice Warriors?
SJW doesn't mean what you think it means.

[Anonymous No.16855369]

>>16855304
>is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism.

All of this has its roots in Enlightenment and French Revolution. French Revolution is just masses manipulated by people who subscribed to views that were either very similar or directly lead to SJW views of today.

[Anonymous No.16855382]

>>16854900

>Does the past influence the present

Yes

[Anonymous No.16855389]

>>16855369
The difference is, those French guys actually acted on it, they were revolutionaries, not SJWs.

[Anonymous No.16855469]

>>16855389
Who would SJWs revolt against? The elite is their elite.

[Anonymous No.16855547]

>>16854900
The motives are incommensurable. The FR was motivated by a desire to purge a government that broad sections of the public were aggrieved by, led and organized by an educated middle class of lawyers and journalists who wanted more power than the hereditary Ancien Régime allowed for, and who had read Enlightenment theories and polemics about jurisprudence, democracy, and anticlericalism. It was also a massive revolt against the corruption of the catholic church.
In sum, most people were revolting to correct the social injustice of their empty bellies.

Modern "social justice warriors" are considered to be a parody of revolutionaries. Usually coming from privledged backgrounds themselves, they are motivated by some awkward shame about their own advantage in society. They pick and choose small, localized pet issues to champion, such as transgender pronouns or bathrooms, rather than attempting to change the broad parameters of the social system. Their is more often than not a subconscious attempt to maintain moral superiority and symbolic status within leftist circles than any strong desire to change the system.

[Anonymous No.16855646]

>>16855369
>French Revolution is just masses manipulated by people
Manipulated by who? All the potential manipulators and "great leaders" of revolution were devoured by it. There was no manipulator of masses, it was the urban masses that led the revolution. French revolution is one of the only revolutions truly from the people. Napoleon was a reactionary that subdued the masses. So if we were to look for people manipulating masses it is the counter revolutionary forces, not some proto SJWs.

[Anonymous No.16855806]

>>16854984
Risible. They weren't 'proto' anything but civic justice actual warriors out of which emerged the Grand Armée.

[Anonymous No.16855921]

>>16855469
They revolt against the middle. The traditionalists, the silent majority, white men, small business owners, etc.

[Anonymous No.16855971]

>>16854900
Obviously not, stupid question, but I'll grant that they both share a certain similarity in the belief that the past can be dispensed with in order to shape the future they want. The loss of French prestige and influence in the 18th century led to a desire among philosophers to reform the state and restore the country to greatness. Except these philosophers, especially Montesquieu, were too friendly with the English, and thought it would be a good idea to apply English ideas to French people, providing a good early example that universal doctrines under which every people must live do not work. They thought they could abandon centuries of French monarchism, the idea of which had become firmly entrenched in the French consciousness, and replace it with English parliamentarianism at the drop of a hat.

[Anonymous No.16855978]

>>16855921
It's actually the silent majority revolting against the elite. The SJWs just act as buffer zone for rich capitalists behind them.

[Anonymous No.16855993]

>>16855646
>Manipulated by who?
Enlightenment intellectuals, freemasons and Jews.

[Anonymous No.16856004]

>>16855646
They were all dead decades before it started.

[Anonymous No.16856020]

>>16854900
Do you hear the people sing?

[Anonymous No.16856031]

>>16855646
>Manipulated by who? All the potential manipulators and "great leaders" of revolution were devoured by it.

If a few public faces perish that doesn't mean it wasn't orchestrated by them and others. Often in violent chaos things tend to get out of the envisioned control. But that's what happens when you fuel people's ressentiment. It'd be a bit like pumping gas and lighting a match into a closed chamber and then being blown the fuck out. Does that mean that you didn't pump gas or light the match?

[Anonymous No.16856068]

>>16855547
It's a superficial difference generated by the fact that the ideals of Enlightenment and French Revolution won. Modern SJWs as you correctly note repeat their predecessors in a parody but that's only because they legitimately have nobody to revolt against. The SJWs are a parody as byproduct of total victory of the French Revolution and Enlightenment ideals.

[Anonymous No.16856088]

>>16855971
This is a superficial political reading, almost totally meaningless.

[Anonymous No.16856101]

>>16854900
Not literature. Kill yourself

[Anonymous No.16856108]

>>16856101
You will never be a woman.

[Anonymous No.16856194]

>>16856031
Dunno, seems to me that people like Hébert, Danton, Marat or Robespierre were shitty manipulators if they got themselves manipulated to death. Your gas tank example is wrong in that gas isn't human. More apt parable would be a guy who went to a angry mob and called them faggots. Ok, you could say he manipulated the mob into beating him to death but would you really call him a master manipulator in control of situation? Likewise in early French revolution different factions vied for power and it was the chaotic masses that controlled the situation. There were no master manipulators in control, leading the revolution towards their wishes. It was during the directory and Napoleon's whiff of grapeshot that situation got turned around but they weren't any proto SJWs with agendas like abolition of slavery, they were reactionaries against it.

[Anonymous No.16856206]

>>16856108

[Anonymous No.16856209]

>>16855050
>That's an interesting thesis
proof that class consciousness has been erased. this was common knowledge just fifty years ago. marx couldn't have dreamed of the current levels of alienation. capital reinvents history every instant now, we're under real subsumption. no more hippie generational division psyops pushed by cybernetic agencies to jam consciousness. the CIA is almost archaic in the face of total commodification. the real movement of capital has subdued everything. The bourgeois revolution is now propped as THE revolution. Debord expands greatly on this.

just read debord and kaczynski. urgently.

SJWs serve the purpose of integrating and assimilating the forgotten assets of capital; women and niggers. It serves the purpose of neutering revolutionary potential. Give a nigger the prospect of superficial restructuring of political economy to accomodate his needs and desires and he will never think of revolt, ever. Of course these are lies.
This an admission of the west's own weakness though; China doesn't need to do so because it has implemented refined techniques of domestication (technology) coupled with the authoritarian regime, there is no need for SJW political corectness and all that, you either assimilate or you're discarded. permanently.

[Anonymous No.16856213]

>>16854900
This might be the first time I've ever asked someone to take their conversation to /his/. Good on you, anon, for breaking the rules in a creative manner.
>>>/his/

[Anonymous No.16856228]

>>16856209
Critical works of debord?

[Anonymous No.16856264]

>>16856108
i'm trans btw

[Anonymous No.16856267]

>>16856213
history is false consciousness, why do you think /his/ is retarded? they don't even discuss history.

>>16856228
society of the spectacle. the english translation I skimmed through is shit (the one on anarchistlibrary) but then Debord isn't particularly pleasant to read even in french.

[Anonymous No.16856398]

>>16856194
>he doesn't know

[Anonymous No.16856619]

>>16854900

Yes

[Anonymous No.16856967]

>>16856398
Also, unironically, the illuminati.