/wg/ - Writing General

[Anonymous No.16788147]

Burning passion edition

previous: >>16763090

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Suggested books on getting your fucking work done you lazy piece of shit:
>Deep Work
>Atomic Habits

Other Resources
>General grammar/syntax/editing help
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
> When/where/how should I write?
https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
> What software should I write with?
https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
> Be like Charles Dickens and write serially
https://www.royalroad.com/
> Basic overview of the Screenplay format
https://screenwriting.info/

[Anonymous No.16788176]

btw, hardest part about writing is putting yourself in a writing mood

everything else will come easy as long as you're in the mood to put the work in

[Anonymous No.16788240]

>>16788176
>btw, hardest part about writing is putting yourself in a writing mood
Beginning of the project that was true. Right now at just over 67k words I'm finding my problem is all my other responsibilities are falling by the wayside because I'm writing so much. I mean, its great, didnt really get in the zone until like 25k words in, but its been solid drafting since then for the past like 2 months.

[Anonymous No.16788372]

>>16788176
For me it's the actual subject and the quality of it. I can sit and write every day, and can easily reach a thousand words. But I'm out of ideas, and I'm tired of writing a diary about my feelings or my past. Sure, growing up in South America was kinda based, but I don't know how to make it less personal and more interesting to the reader. I feel like I want to mentally transport to that era that's so remarkable to me and somehow branch out some sort of story out of there but I don't know where. Life isn't all that complex as a kid so there aren't that many serious topics to explore.

[Anonymous No.16788714]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08KQCTHTD?ref_=dbs_dp_wim_sb_tkin&binding=kindle_edition

Thought on my books, /lit? Anyone else publish via Amazon?

[Anonymous No.16788738]

I actually like the thing I'm doing for NaNoWriMo and now I'm scared I'll fuck it up

>>16788372
Can't speak for everyone but personal things are interesting to me. If you don't want the story to be about yourself you could make it about a character who has similar experiences to you.

[Anonymous No.16788913]

>>16788147
hey anons, I've had this idea of compiling my wartime experiences as an infantryman into the written word, but I'm not sure in what form. I don't know if it should be a collection of episodic short stories or a full blown novel. If I go the novel route, I don't know if I should fictionalize or stay true to life. What do you guys think? Anyway, I suppose in the meanwhile I actually need to sit down and write stuff in order to be any good.

[Anonymous No.16788916]

>>16788913
As long as its not your memoirs guarding a supply depot then it should be cool.

[Anonymous No.16788930]

I'd wager that only 1% of people can actually write, as in not making a grammatical error every other sentence. I got a job as an English tutor for my college and it's been eye-opening.

[Anonymous No.16788941]

>>16788916
no it would mostly be funny events, killing and getting killed, futility of our mission, horniness, and culture/people.

[Anonymous No.16788943]

>>16788913
If you’re debating between the two, the best bet would probably be somewhere in between, where each chapter is like a self-contained short story, but when combined they give a thorough picture of each character’s arc.

Don’t worry about facts; see what Werner Herzog has to say about facts vs truth vs illumination.

[Anonymous No.16788989]

>>16788943
thanks, that sounds like a reasonable middle path.

[Anonymous No.16789016]

I didn't write for the last few days, but I will tomorrow. I promise.

[Anonymous No.16789507]

>>16788714
When is your free day

[Anonymous No.16789602]

>>16788913
I've also served and I want to do something like this but from the other perspective. The military member who sits at a desk all day doing IT or administrative work and is generally very boring. But contrasted with the other end where combat is happening and even though things seem unimportant to one person, there is a long logistical line that makes the 'boring' work valuable in the long run.

[Anonymous No.16789808]

>>16788930
That's what editors are for.

[Anonymous No.16790215]

>>16788714
Love the titles and the covers. Reminds me of horror books I read as a child. Might actually buy.

[Anonymous No.16790426]

Is this good dialogue? How do I improve it?

“I see you.” it said.
Mother opened the door. “Sorry about that.”
“He was very rude.” The mailwoman replied.
“Who? Oh, my son. He is just too lazy to open the door.”
“I saw him – and he saw me, and he just led there! How rude.”
“Well, he tells me he’s busy working on a novel. I guess now I know what that means.” Mother nodded and shut the door.
“Turn it down!” She shouted from the kitchen.

[Anonymous No.16790459]

>>16790426
>he just led there
What does this mean?
Overall it's a bit stilted. Like how a robot thinks people talk. Are you a native English speaker?

[Anonymous No.16790472]

>>16788930
I agree, though not to that extent. I think that most people can't write two paragraphs without shitty pacing and lack of flow between sentences, but remember that your experience is inherently biased, as most intelligent people don't visit tutors.

[Anonymous No.16790485]

>>16790459
I am but I am a khv schizo with no friends. Every critique I have received has complained of my dialogue being unnatural. Perhaps being a writer does not exclude you from having to interact with people after all: ie, it is not the incel profession.

[Anonymous No.16790523]

>>16790485
I would recommend watching TV scenes that are dialogue heavy, TV dialogue is designed to seem realistic without actually being too realistic (because in reality people speak like idiots). Think about not just the words being used but how it is said and what's being conveyed. You should try and read it out loud to try and get a feel for what people would and wouldn't say.

[Anonymous No.16790580]

>>16790485
It reads like an ESL wrote it. The formatting of dialogue is off.
> "I am saying something," said person. "The first dialogue ends with a comma, and the second one ends with a period."

> The pronouns are ambiguous
I still don't know who or what "it" is

> It's also jumpy
How does the mailwoman know the son was supposed to open the door but didn't? How did the mother get from the door to the kitchen so fast

[Anonymous No.16790605]

>>16790485
This isn't just a problem of it being "unrealistic", it straight up makes no sense. The lines don't connect, there's no common topic, it looks completely incoherent and random. I think you should see a doctor, there might honestly be something wrong with your head.

[Anonymous No.16790628]

>>16790605
Now that you mention it, that guy might be clinically crazy. I thought it was an ESL writing down grammar exercises from his textbook because none of the sentences had anything to do with each other

[Anonymous No.16790831]

>>16788240
Sounds like you're living the dream, friend, if you can go a solid 2 months ignoring your responsibilities and yet not be in a crack shack right now.

[Anonymous No.16790894]

>>16788176
babby's first procrastination. push yourself to write.

[Anonymous No.16791019]

>>16790605
lol you are right. I have ocd and psychosis - so should I just not write dialogue?

[Anonymous No.16791039]

>>16791019
you should take your meds

[Anonymous No.16791044]

>>16788147
This is a part of a prologue that I wrote. I would love to know your opinions. Thanks!

I begin to open my eyes to the dull noise of the distant echoes of my own existence wrapped in a forgotten night. The water in my refuge vibrates in unison with my heartbeat drowned out by the roar of a distant drum. My body surrounded by thick warm moisture levitates in this interior. I look without seeing, I move without touching, trapped in the safety of without knowing without abandoning being. I am a slave to peace, I am dominated by tranquility, dominated by the love of unconditional essentiality. The infinity of the whole does not overwhelm me, nor the abyss of this nothing scares me. And by realizing it, by giving it a word, by possessing the truth without depending on its presence, I free myself from this reality.
A light is invoked over the center of my head that penetrates the impervious darkness of my enclosure, dragging me towards its source. Its intensity blinds more than the nonexistence of my consciousness, forcing me to cover my sight. The much intimidates me, the little intimidates me. The answers are replaced by unknowns, and my tongue learns by itself to ask questions.
Two stars shine blue, pointing the way. I crawl through an undergrowth of meat, looking for my way out. I smell the autumn leaves at the end of the journey, and a hand grabs mine. ‘’ It's a boy ’’ They sing from above. I cry in a daze, panic and cold and desolate. Everything terrifies me, nothing consoles me, until I feel his embrace; takes me in after being banished.
His eyes were the stars in the sky that I always tried to climb. The orange of her hair cleanses my skin, envelops my body, marking the coming of spring life. I am a spectator of my birth, being my preconceived word to my emergence. I understand, but I do not understand, I hear, but I do not listen, I detail, but I do not see. His youthful smile is the only aspect that seems genuine in this contrived dream. My will deaf and numb by an overstimulated sensorium comparable to that of an infantile puppy raises my arms and takes out of my mouth an unintelligible and premature sound. She responds by bringing my body closer to hers, brushing her face with mine, reaffirming the security of my newborn being. Happiness is a contrasting rush, a fading flash in its own intensity, and in its present durability, I am subdued. I am contained in emotion, still with my reason seeking to escape. No concept is an anchor that gives weight to my existence, so I look for a rope that leads me to knowledge.

[Anonymous No.16791045]

>>16791039
i have already. Please dont discriminate against me just because i have a condition.

[Anonymous No.16791162]

>>16791019
You just need to practice. And study more dialogue. I assume you're the guy writing about the older brother learning responsibility? Is it autobiographical by any chance? Did you drop out of university?

[Anonymous No.16791171]

>>16791162
no not that guy. I am writing about a shut in neet learning to take responsibility.

[Anonymous No.16791201]

>>16791171
how does he learn to take responsibility?

[Anonymous No.16791249]

>>16791201
his brother chokes on his own vomit after a night out. He wakes up to his mother screaming and climbs down his bunk bed to find him dead.

[Anonymous No.16791695]

>>16790472
>as most intelligent people don't visit tutors.
Some professors require their students to use our services. There was only like one paper that I thought was decently written.

[Anonymous No.16791726]

How do I deal with the fact that my writing sucks? Just power through until I become better?

[Anonymous No.16791857]

>>16791726
Why do you think it sucks? Has anyone ever told you it sucks?

[Anonymous No.16792169]

>>16791726
Think about it as a positive. If you can see the reasons it sucks, that means you can improve and are already actively doing so just by picking it apart.

[Anonymous No.16792265]

>>16791857
Not really, but I doubt many people would be that rude.

[Anonymous No.16792322]

>>16792265
Post it and I'll tell you whether it's good or bad

[Anonymous No.16792336]

>>16792322
I will pass on that. Maybe I will ask for advice here in a month or two. After I have become a bit more confident in my writing.

[Anonymous No.16792577]

https://pastebin.com/sjWa9Qh7

Can someone comment on this? I feel like I am failing completely. I just succk so fucking much

[Anonymous No.16792608]

>>16789507
I was giving them away for free, around Halloween. Amazon lets me give them away, every 90 days, so I'll do it again once I can.
>>16790215
Thanks. I hope you enjoy them, if you decide to read them.

[Anonymous No.16792665]

>>16788176
You must write DESPITE the mood.

[Anonymous No.16792743]

>>16792577
It's better than before (assuming you're the same person). But still quite incoherent.

[Anonymous No.16792852]

>>16792743
im not. HOW THE FUCK DO I WRITE SOMETHING COHERENT?

[Anonymous No.16792880]

How the FUCK do I sit down and write

[Anonymous No.16792912]

Can someone unironically read this, removing the memery, and tell me if it's any good? I've been writing a story which has several letters by a victorian madman and they're done in a similar style.

[Anonymous No.16792924]

>>16792912
Whoops, forgot the quote it
>>16791164

[Anonymous No.16792930]

>>16792912
Isn't there a crit thread? These are usually more for the craft

[Anonymous No.16793300]

>>16792930
Those are usually dead, critiques for prose are free to come here
fuck poems though literally a dead (and boring) art form

[Anonymous No.16793363]

>>16793300
I hate poems so fucking much. Why is that? Am I brainlet or are your words true?
It just seems such an obtuse art form.

[Anonymous No.16793420]

>>16793363
I'm not sure whether it's because I'm a zoomer or not, but I agree that poems are just incredibly boring. I love a good book and love analyzing it to see the layers beneath the writing, but even the prettiest poems fail to draw my attention. Maybe forster was underestimating the power of a story - the story is the fundamental aspect of all writing, and most poems lack more than an incredibly basic story with pretty words on top.

[Anonymous No.16793514]

>>16792912
It is very good, and without the memery, the possibilities of being even better multiplies. Could you summarize the plot? Or your general ideas about the direction of the story.

[Anonymous No.16793575]

>>16790831
Run my own business. Normal slow period end of august and month of october. Just picked back up 2 weeks ago and starting to get behind now. Bunch of holidays at the end of the year, hopefully my draft can be done, or at least very far along, by January.

[Anonymous No.16793742]

>>16793514
Thank you for the kind words. First person, male viewpoint, main character lives in an old house and tries hanging a nail and the wall basically crumbles, and when he's repairing it he finds a stash of letters from a mentally unhinged man. Main character has very strong feelings of connection when reading them and so after reading the first, he sets it aside and tries to research the history of the house and who the letters were from. He gets obsessed with finding the man's identity, finds his name, his living relatives, tries pressing them for information and when he reads the final letter, realizes there are no leads left and he'll never know more about the person he felt such a connection too. All the while it's implied he is writing a journal to keep track of his findings and (I'm not done so I'm not sure how exactly to end it) he will probably put the journal back into the wall with the letters or something. The main character's viewpoint is done in a tight straight-forward style similar to Banana Yoshimoto - as I've been re-reading her books lately - but the letters are each around seven pages of me trying my damnedest to write olde style.

[Anonymous No.16793897]

How does one find himself on a spectral pirate ship?

[Anonymous No.16793918]

>>16793742
What do you want the reader to learn about? What do you want to convey? I love the mystery and the scenario, yet I don't know about the intention, your intention.

[Anonymous No.16793953]

>start writing a story after thinking about writing a lot
>im just as bad as i thought i'd be , if not worse
feels untalented man

[Anonymous No.16794019]

>>16793918
I don't worry about that stuff till the rewrite, if I decide it's good. I write for me and I like watching things unfold. If it's good, I'll decide on the theme that best suits it and tweak everything so it feels natural. Probably add some tension to a few scenes which implies he's taking things too far and ignoring friends, or maybe make it seem like he's losing it in a similar manner as the letter's author to tease his possible insanity in a loop of sorts. But most of my lit fic stuff like this I just finish the first draft and then put aside eternally.

[Anonymous No.16794048]

>>16793953
tfw don't know this feel
but really everyone hates their starting stuff but the trick is to keep writing and enjoying the process without thinking about the product
dont get discouraged and write for the journey not the destination

[Anonymous No.16794110]

progress: 120 pages done

[Anonymous No.16794150]

>>16794019
Understandable. Good luck and have fun!

[Anonymous No.16794254]

>>16788714
Is this cringe or based

[Anonymous No.16794291]

>>16794254
100% cringe

[Anonymous No.16794334]

>>16788714
what did you mean by this

[Anonymous No.16794405]

>>16794254
based if that's actually him and not a picture he found online
cringe if it's not him

[Anonymous No.16794513]

Alright anons, if you have any work you want critiqued I'll be monitoring the thread and posting line edits, narrative advice, prose rewrites, and general feedback. I'll be here for a few hours, so if you don't have anything at the moment but want some feedback on your writing feel free to write something based on the rhino prompt from the last thread found here:
>>16779454

[Anonymous No.16794520]

>>16794513
Incorrect prompt, here is the real prompt:
>>16777944

[Anonymous No.16794561]

>>16794513
Posted this last thread but reworking it a bit, any thoughts? Beginning to a short story, planned to have like 10k words

[Anonymous No.16794663]

891 words in 1 hour and 20 minutes. After three days of inactivity this feels like an accomplishment, but it's not. I need to do better. Been listening to a collection of the Silent Hill saga's soundtrack while I write; it's been very helpful so far.
Report of the day, over.
Keep up the good work, anons; you've got this.

[Anonymous No.16794733]

>>16794561
Keep in mind this is only my opinion and you shouldn't take it as fact. But I'm just being honest, as you want an opinion.
The first sentence should have no comma, it needs to be solid.
The first sentence of the next paragraph needs work. Firstly, starting your story with "in the biz" just seems like a bad choice unless you're intentionally making things overly casual. You would lose nothing and gain interest by changing it to 'business' instead. Because nothing is established yet, the first half of the sentence says graduates, which would imply someone who has earned something, then you proceed to explain that graduate is actually being used in a slightly derogatory way, which is the opposite of the words normal connotation, so you should probably add an adjective before graduate to imply that meaning to prevent the wrong assumption from being made. The usage of 'to be' also feels a bit off tense-wise with the rest of the sentence. Maybe something like "line of work was" "that the line of work was" or even "who imagined a more exhilarating experience" to remove the necessity for the particle altogether.
I didn't read the rest because I'm lazy and got disengaged because I'm a prose snob.

[Anonymous No.16794837]

>>16794561
Since this is the beginning of a short story I would suggest that you cut the first two paragraphs. Open the story on, "Harrison Brooks, Senior Artifact Inspector..." Why? You tell us later that the light "found him quiet" so we don't need the first paragraph, "It was quiet, the day they found light." Next you have the paragraph who's work it is to tell us how strange and rare it is to find light, and how so many so-and-sos can't hack it in Avysselos. What should be included are the facts, those things which place the reader on their feet in this strange sci-fi world so that they can move on reading the story and understanding what the names and jargon words represent; Avysselos, 'finding light', 'FAA', and the term 'artifact' (which can refer to anything at any time but seems to hold a specificity in the context of the story). This doesn't need to be drawn out in exposition, since some of this can be given through context. The way it is now you're playing a sci-fi version of the pro-noun game. "He is coming" "I'll have to use 'that' move" are some examples. "They found light" is meaningless to the reader and is more likely to annoy than interest at this stage.

Here is my take on a re-write from the start:
"Harrison Brooks, Senior Artifact Inspector for Federal Artifact Acquisitions, or FAA, considered himself a garbage man. He worked in the Avysellos proto-dimension, a universe filled with the refuse of ancient aliens. Harrison's job was the categorization and archival of ancient materials for presentation back home. He was currently fourteen micro-parsecs and two weeks into a month-long expedition, still listening to the rhythm of the ship's propulsion engine as turned in his cot."
This cuts things back a bit. Now there is a sensible term that places Harrison's position in the "FAA", the Avysellos is sold to the reader in a more up-front and factual manner, and Harrison's motivation, location, and situation are folded up nicely for consumption. There are reasons for the re-situation of some phrases, for example, "a universe once absolutely empty, but now filled with all varieties of refuse, dumped by the endless multitude of alien raced who lived and died long before humans..." becomes, "a universe filled with the refuse of ancient aliens" which is shorter and more direct. It also lacks the present tense "now filled" for a descriptor of trash that existed "long before humans" which sounds contradictory. How did the ancient aliens fill the dimension with trash "now"?
I removed all mention of 'finding light' so that it could be introduced later on. If I knew what this meant or how it fits thematically and contextually I could make a more informed decision on whether or not to include it in the first few sentences, but the explanation would bloat the immediate information the reader needs to know to decide if they want to keep reading or not.
Feel free to ask more questions or post more. Thanks for the contribution anon.

[Anonymous No.16794873]

>>16788714
The writing is terrible

[Anonymous No.16794945]

>>16794405>>16794334

lol it's me, but a bit outdated. From when I was in college.

[Anonymous No.16794992]

>>16794873
How so?

[Anonymous No.16795023]

>>16794733
No problem anon, any amount of feedback is really appreciated and I would rather someone call me a retard and actually point out what is wrong than a simple "pretty good". Even if it's pretty good, which I don't think it is, I need to know where to focus on. So thanks for your thoughts on the first bit.
And the fact that you were disengaged tells me I need to try harder. Because the reader certainly isn't going to give me time if you won't!

>>16794837
So if I'm understanding correctly, you want me to focus more on the details that immerse the reader into the world, rather than a descriptive, vague monologue that doesn't tell too much about the world. How is that different than an info dump (which I understand and agree is very boring)?
I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I think you're right that I'm being too wordy and descriptive. But your rewrite seems bland to me, and that was what I'm trying to avoid. My biggest fear is being boring, and so I was trying to imitate some mixture of modern-day "minimalistic" writing and wordy, older-styled prose with this bit.
One thing that comes to mind is the quote where "have your character look for a glass of water, if nothing else: make sure there's conflict to begin your story to keep your reader interested". I didn't do that with what I wrote, but I'm also not seeing it with that info dump example you posted either.

[Anonymous No.16795031]

What I thought was a "short story" idea turned into 20,000 words and I'm only halfway through. My biggest problem right now is keeping track of all the characters at once. I keep accidentally focusing on 2 or 3 and then the rest disappear because I forget they exist.

[Anonymous No.16795074]

can someone take a look at this? https://pastebin.com/SnyMBJrN

i really don't think it's finished but it's more complete than before and i want an impression. it's very personal and is about a friend of mine who went from bff to stranger over time by pickling his brain with lsd and becoming an /x/phile. so some of it might not make sense

[Anonymous No.16795112]

>>16794992
Where to start?
You don't know basic grammar or how to form a paragraph. Ellipses are used constantly. Paragraphs will feature multiple characters speaking. Tense switches from past to present. Simple numbers are written in their decimal instead of spelled out.
I gave up by the second page when your character wakes up from his nightmare, goes to sleep after some nonsense, and then has the same nightmare again for some reason. This is the first page and a half here.

[Anonymous No.16795184]

>>16795112
Hmm. It's not that I don't understand basic grammar, I just tend not to get too caught up in those things. I'm more focused on making sure my twist endings are built up enough/entertaining. Things like that.

As for the nightmare sequence, I intended that to be a bit satirical.

[Anonymous No.16795207]

>>16795023
Depends on the details. I want to focus on what is important, but the facts of the situation must be presented for the reader to know what is going on. In that sense details like what FAA stands for are needed because Brooks works for this thing. The reader needs to know what 'finding light' means because you set it up as the most important aspect of the story, otherwise the first sentence of your story is meaningless.
The rewrite is supposed to be bland. The point of my rewrite is that I strip the superfluous from the writing and show you what you have 'actually' said. Some people fluff a whole page or two with nonsense to say one thing. In this case you have four sentences of information that moves the story.
There is a man. He has a job. He is in a place. He is doing this.
Sentences like these push the narrative forward. The reader knows more about Brooks, where he is, and what he wants.
A paragraph like, "In the biz of artifact hunting...deep space internet." Contains no important information because Brooks isn't a starry eyed new hire. It doesn't explain what finding light is. It suggests that some people can't stand working where Brooks works, from which the reader is to extrapolate an understanding of Brooks' character. The problem is that every vocation has people who can't hack it. There is no specificity in the information that gives the reader an understanding that pushes forward the story.
You could spend a paragraph telling us more about Brooks, as long as the information or action is characterizing. It is best to 'show' us Brooks' character instead of 'telling' it to us, however, so you preferably want to do this through action. This is why so many good stories start in media res. In this way the setting, plot, or character are revealed through action.
When I say action, I don't want you to think explosions and gunfights either. A character who is starving hesitates when trying to steal food from the store. This is characterizing action. Then you move forward. Due to his hesitation he is caught and sent to jail. Consequence of action. Follow with the question of story. Will the character 'learn' from his mistake by abandoning his morals to survive in prison or will he hold to his integrity through adversity? Conclusion, he holds to his integrity though it costs him his life.
As long as it holds the most basic information of 'what happens next' it moves the story forward.
If you want any more, just ask, it's what I'm here for. I want everyone to leave with an improved story.

[Anonymous No.16795223]

>>16795184
Cool I guess, but it doesn't really change my criticisms. Kudos to you for putting it out there. You asked for opinions, and I reciprocated.

[Anonymous No.16795226]

I just want to write a simple story that could plug the hole in my life. There are just some things I'll probably never have in this life, so I write instead.
My ideal novel is just a conversation between two people. Like "A Lover's Discourse" or "Our Souls at Night."
I'm really lonely and I just want to share my fond wishes of companionship with a few reader.
Fantasizing is how I get by, though these days I am frustrated with my inability to focus long and deep enough to relate my dreams in language

My ideal book is somewhat like "Love Story" and somewhat like "South of the Border West of the Sun.
I hope to make a little money someday writing things that melancholy single women, sad-hearted college students, bored housewives et cetera will enjoy

Is this a bad idea? I'm pretty cerebral and unexpressive but I'm intellectually interested in the lives of emotional, passionate people. I want to write a book about people who are different from me.
I'm also interested in the subject of marriage, or at least courtship.
I like marriage-plots.

Hopefully I'm hermaphroditic enough to make money as a writer. Teaching high school is fun but wears me out. I dunno how long I can last with this day job.

[Anonymous No.16795237]

>>16795226
you sound passionate about it so go for it

[Anonymous No.16795260]

I'm going to write a screenplay about the life and times of Wallace Stevens and it will be like "Midnight in Paris" but ten-thousand times better
A contender for Great American Novel and a recovery of Stevens for centrality to the American canon as against vagrants like Whitman and Dickinson

[Anonymous No.16795270]

>>16795223
Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. Hopefully I can address those types of things, in my future works.

[Anonymous No.16795276]

How difficult is it to write while depressed?

[Anonymous No.16795393]

>>16795276
I can't even get out of bed when depressed

[Anonymous No.16795400]

>>16795276
Honestly, it's easy-mode. Why do you think all of Stephen King's most famous books are the ones he had written when coked/boozed out of his mind? Or why the whole alcoholic writer trope exists in general? Or why so many authors end up blowing their brains out?
The truth is the more fucked up you are = the higher chances of your writing being amazing.

[Anonymous No.16795722]

Abraham Van Helsing arrives

aka Abrafo Van Hassain

[Anonymous No.16795848]

>>16795074
I've taken a look anon and have some feedback for you.

My first piece of advice is to cut some of the characters or fuse them together. The story is about 2200 words long and involves Jules, Dave, Anthony, and Will as well as background characters like the musicians, Jessica, and Jane. For a short story this long I would recommend 3 characters. I would probably drop Will as his character is too similar to Dave's. It might be better to play up Anthony as a stabilizing force in this dynamic, creating tension as his eventual absence will notably alter the dynamic between Dave and Jules. There are plenty of routes to take in regards to plotting the story out in a more dramatic fashion, but I'll leave that for now to talk about the writing.

Generally I don't have a problem with the writing but there are times where narrational color is added in a way that I think weakens the telling of the story. You also heavily use cliche and slang that feels dated, not in the "Will was always using old words" sense either. It sounds like an odd mix between middle-school, beat generation, and online slang. There are also ways in which you could be more direct in and natural in your writing that would save on the word economy. For example, the first paragraph, "Dave was a pal..." could be rewritten to:
"Dave was a pal of mine. He was hosting a big bash and I had gone to get the shrimp and hash brownies, which is why I was late. Dave didn't care. We entered arm-in-arm" or "My pal Dave was hosting a big bash. I had gone out for shrimp and hash brownies and showed up late. Dave didn't care. We entered arm-in-arm."
Following the same reasoning I would cut the second paragraph to, "Dave had transformed his flat into a temple for the arcane. He set out lava-lamps in the garden balcony, candles in the kitchen, and hung beaded curtains in every doorway. Transient wallflower musicians tuned their strings as I put the shrimp and edibles on the table and found Will."
I'm not trying to adjust these sentences to my taste, but making cuts where possible to tighten the structure of each paragraph. You also tell the reader information when it isn't required. Such as """Hmm?" He had my attention."" The 'hmm' expresses to the reader that Jules has given his attention, it doesn't need to be said. For the same reason you can cut everything in the third paragraph after the quotation, link it to the next paragraph of dialogue and then break into 'hmm' and break again into 'It's true.'
If you are still here, feel free to ask for more critique. Thanks for the contribution, and good luck with your writing anon.

[Anonymous No.16795947]

>>16795207
So this is what I got from your post, please point out if I misunderstood anything:
- I to need think about the meaning of every sentence in relation to the plot: is this description advancing the story? If it isn't, then it is superfluous, and I have to consider what purpose it has as a superfluous sentence: is it characterizing someone to deepen our understanding of them? Is it building a world to entice the reader? Etc.
- I need to characterize Brooks through telling the reader about his actions. I should almost certainly start in the middle of an event since it's easier that way.

>A paragraph like, "In the biz of artifact hunting...deep space internet." Contains no important information because Brooks isn't a starry eyed new hire. It doesn't explain what finding light is. It suggests that some people can't stand working where Brooks works, from which the reader is to extrapolate an understanding of Brooks' character. The problem is that every vocation has people who can't hack it.
So in this case I have my sentence describing how many people enter the field of business and leave after they are disappointed in what it really is.
It is a superfluous sentence, as you said. I think I wanted to show how Harrison would try and encourage these kinds of people, even though he knew they would leave after seeing how mundane the job really is, but I never found a good way to put it in because my first two paragraphs are just abstract description: I would just be telling the reader "Harrison was the guy who did that" and that's uninteresting. To make it interesting and still get my point across, I could, for instance, start off the story with Harrison comforting a guy who was angry he had wasted years in uni for this shit job. This keeps the reader interested, characterizes Harrison, and gets the information across.

My question is: what place do you think abstract, superfluous description has in prose? Is there any reason for me to do long paragraphs describing XYZ like I did? I recall many books describing some location for many paragraphs with vivid imagery, so what's the purpose in that and when should I do it?

And to what extent do you think I need to elucidate the reader on every unfamiliar bit of information? Do you think it is bad to leave some things up in the air and have the reader speculate as to the meaning until later? I understand terms like "FAA" and "finding light" may be confusing, but I feel like the reader can infer enough to understand what's going on: FAA is some kind of business, "light" in "finding light" refers to something rare.

I really appreciate your help here. I've never taken a real writing or English course - writing is just a favored hobby of mine that I would love to get good at - so I'm very novice in many aspects. I feel like I've read much of this advice on blog articles before but it just went in one ear and out the other, and whenever I think "what should I write after this?" I'm usually clueless.

[Anonymous No.16796166]

>>16795276
Easy. You want to write some nightmare like Blood Meridian, be fucked up. The more time in maniac isolation, the more fucked up your ideas are. Refine that into a product, and near the end of your creation you will find some small modicum of joy to add human and whimsical elements to your nightmarish hall of mirrors.

[Anonymous No.16796171]

>>16795270
Your work ethic is admirable. Get a marketable product. Critique Circle. Start there to refine craft.

[Anonymous No.16796198]

>>16796171
This, I have to respect someone who can pump out ALL those books with that level of quality.

[Anonymous No.16796203]

>>16795947
The first and best advice I can give you is to read the "For Prose" books in the OP. Those are my recommendations and they can tell you more about writing than I can.
In a way, yes, you should think about every sentence in relation to 'plot'. Think of it like this. Every word you say is the story. You control every factor, idea, and sensation that marks the page. Every one of those things, in a great book, is purposeful and cohesive. Not every book needs to be a 'great book' and it is an unrealistic expectation to have as beginners or even intermediate writers. However, not every sentence which is not plot is superfluous. This is hard to explain and kind of contradictory if you don't know the reasoning, considering what I have said earlier. A characterizing sentence is a narrative/plot sentence. A superfluous sentence contains no relevant information in a way that doesn't influence the reader's perception of the plot, character, setting, or theme. I use a kind of writer workshop slang/shorthand when I critique so when I say superfluous it may or may not be 'completely' irrelevant. For example, had your "In the biz..." paragraph included something about Brooks helping or feeling bad for the kids, it would have been characterizing. The problem is that it doesn't relate to Brooks as it is written.
Yes, preferably by showing the reader his actions and not telling. This 'show don't tell' advice is standard beginner writing advice. You don't need to start in the middle of an even, but it can be a handy tool. Often I will see writing samples start long before anything happens in the story. The most cliche form is for the character to be asleep and then wake up to an alarm clock, and then go about the morning routine. It really is impressive how many samples start this way. That doesn't mean it never works though. I'm sure you could find some professional work that starts this way. Brooks could be asleep or in bed and then awake to an alarm going off on the ship, which quickly thrusts him into action but doesn't start in the middle of it. The idea is that you don't want to waste the readers time.

As for your question, ideally nothing is superfluous. You wouldn't want the construction workers who built your house to have left over parts. You'd feel as though they were required when you saw them and wonder why they were there at all if they weren't needed. You can write a beautiful sentence about the sun going down, and it can be an indication that time is running out. You can write a vivid image of an elk drowning and it can be a metaphor or a thematic representation of a character. At some point you may describe every object in a room because later that will be all the character has at their disposal to survive. Like the opening of "The Things They Carried" you may have a large list, and like O'Brien it may let those items reflect the characters. Describing a setting isn't superfluous because it tells the reader where they are.
1/2

[Anonymous No.16796209]

>>16793953
>>16794048
I know this feel. I can write 80k words in a month easy, but it's all garbage. The plot is there but every bit of prose is just so stilted and telling rather than showing. I also hate editing so once finished I'll usually only pass for grammar and spelling stuff, a few word issues here and there too.
I'll try to be better though.

[Anonymous No.16796234]

>>16788714
jesus christ, who are these nigger reviewers? rude

[Anonymous No.16796270]

>>16793953
The reality of it is that it takes 5 years of steady work to learn to write. Sanderson says it takes 10, but kit and resources are so good now that writers can improve craft much faster.
There is a simple flowchart:
Absorb craft videos/books.
Write.
Use tools like PWA, AutoCrit, Grammerly, etc.
Critique other writers on critique sites.
Read the critiques of others on said sites.
Submit your work for critique.
Learn from your critiques.
Read well-written books and see what the author does.
Start this again.

After a few rounds and years of this, you're ready.

[Anonymous No.16796302]

Poetry is the realm of pseuds no matter how good you are at it.

[Anonymous No.16796368]

>>16788714
Fuck off

[Anonymous No.16796384]

>>16791044
>I begin to open my eyes to the dull noise of the distant echoes of my own existence wrapped in a forgotten night.
I shouldn't have to tell you this major cringe

[Anonymous No.16796399]

>>16792577
It's super stiff, unnatural, and you use too much punctuation

[Anonymous No.16796413]

>>16795947
>>16796203
2/2

As to the extent to which you should elucidate the reader, the answer is (again) dependent on context. In this case the reader should know what FAA means. They should also know what 'finding light' means or not be told about it until the information is relevant. Gardner has a bit about the writer's tendency to want to hoodwink the reader and how this is bad form. There are ways to trick the reader that are satisfying to them. Think of it like a mystery. You want the reader to be ahead of Watson but behind Holmes. To do this you do not lie about information, the reader will find it unfair and it is poor showmanship. Instead you withhold critical information or give it contextually in a way that only a genius or a person willing to suspend their reading in order to do actual research will know before the Holmes reveal.
I will tell you now that in reading, especially in sci-fi, the reader will not be likely to guess your intentions or your context. You might be shocked to know what some readers think about the things you ARE giving relevant information for, let alone those things you obscure. To quash those strange assumptions you must get information out ahead of the reader or reserve the information until it is necessary. When I read that characters were trying to find light I assumed that, because they were in a "proto-dimension" that they might literally have no light and that they were out in all this refuse searching for a single point of illumination. Perhaps they navigate using visually occluding uniforms that allow them audial or kinesthetically-enhanced navigation. I imagined a world of complete darkness in which ships might take the shape of large reaching fingers which are wired to pilots heads to allow them to feel and 'crawl' through the expanse of space. These are the kinds of strange imaginings the reader might have if you refuse to denote the meaning of terms that carry so much importance in the narrative.

I'm glad to hear it anon. You've done well and you shouldn't be afraid of failure (and I don't think this excerpt is a failure), it is informative and it will make you better. If you want to make noticeable progress I advise you to read more while paying attention to the sentence and paragraph level construction, but also to challenge yourself with prompts (like the rhino prompt in this and the previous thread) and post your work here for feedback.

[Anonymous No.16797082]

>>16796413
Thank you for all the advice. I actually bought Gardner's On Becoming a Novelist (and 7 aspects to a novel) way back when I was 16 but they've just been gathering dust on my bookcase, I should crack them open.

You seem like an excellent writer and tutor, your knowledge of the craft definitely shows. I hope you'll hang around anon, I'm hoping to finally finish this short story, for better or for worse, so I can either be happy enough with my work enough to publish or continue improving (the latter, probably).

As for your advice, I have an interesting question. Can't you just add something pretty, like a pretty description of a flower pot, and your readers will find meaning in it, regardless of whether there was intention or not while writing it?
I was also looking through some books I liked and one thing that struck me was the opening to "Anxiety is the Dizziness of Freedom". The author doesn't describe what a "prism" is for a few pages, despite the scene involving a man buying a used prism from a shopper. It is revealed that it is, in fact, a computer-like device that allows you to facetime an alternate dimension of yourself. I'm sure this is the exception to the "stop withholding important information from your readers", not the norm, but I thought that was interesting.

Also, if you're curious, the story idea is that this "trash dimension" has been a junkyard for all alien races since long before our universe came to be, and humans open portals into a random location into this dimension (thus they can only ever find the remnants of aliens long dead). Anything emitting light after these trillions of years are artifacts of immense value to scientific communities. I enjoyed your interpretations of what light meant.

[Anonymous No.16797095]

>>16796234
>half the book is references to other media
I read the arcade one and that’s fair. The whole plot was just the Polybius urban legend meets Stranger Things. It’s very gimmicky

[Anonymous No.16797290]

>>16792577
there's definitely something there but the dialogue still needs serious work. Also when his mom says something about his "bloody parcel" and he immediately follows with "none of your bloody business" it's a bit repetitive maybe just have him say none of your business without the bloody. I don't know though after reading those lines a few times it doesn't come off so bad.

[Anonymous No.16797327]

>>16797082
Thank you too anon, I'll be around for a while. I might even try starting a writing group/workshop for anons that is a bit more involved in the next few months. I hope you have a good time writing your story and get to a place where you feel ready to submit it for publication.

The simple answer is yes. This gets into a larger conversation about authorial readership and intentional fallacy among other things. But, yes, especially in poetry workshops. The idea is that by the time you've read and revised that sentence or paragraph about something pretty that you have seen and interpreted that connection yourself and that you nudge it towards meaning as you revise. This is another aspect of writing that might not be clear to those starting out or those that have written stories in classes where the end of the assignment is the end of life for a piece of work. Writing is revision. At the end of revision you might not even recognize a piece as the same story.

As for Ted Chiang's "Anxiety is the Dizziness of Freedom", the focus on the prism reveals through context what he doesn't want to say through exposition. This is 'showing' instead of 'telling'. He could have written,"The orange sweater man walks in holding a prism, a computer that allows you to communicate with your paraself" but he instead wrote out the characterizing action that gives the reader an understanding of the device, the orange sweater wearing man, and Nat all at once. This is what I meant when I said,
>This doesn't need to be drawn out in exposition, since some of this can be given through context.
I'm glad to see you already looking through samples of professional writers for ways to circumvent problems you encounter in your work though. That's a large part of becoming a better writer. If you want to try other exercises I recommend writing word for word a story by your favorite writer. It sounds strange but it may help you in ways you don't expect. You can also break down sentences they write or see how they construct scenes in their writing. Chiang for example, starts his story with the character's name and moves into the circumstances. There are things Nat doesn't know how to explain. Nat must negotiate (which is a type of 'action' or 'conflict) with a stranger. The first paragraph has only four sentences. And so on. There are lots of things you can glean from critical observation of stories, and the things that stand out to you, the things you like, can help teach you about the kinds of stories you want to write and the ways in which you think.

That sounds interesting anon. I'll be glad to review other parts of the story when you feel they are ready for critique. Good luck with your writing and analysis.

[Anonymous No.16797778]

>>16797327
Well here's the beginning of my next attempt at it. Before I go ahead and continue writing I'd like to see whether this is the right direction. I touch on how they're artifact hunters, but never describe really what that means. Should I remove it entirely? Is it descriptive enough, too much dialogue and not enough imagery?
My next plan to advance the plot is to continue by having them attend a crew meeting where they announce that they've found light, then after that describe what light is and what an artifact hunter is by describing how Isiah and Harrison perform a task related to capturing the light artifact.

Thanks for all your help, again.

[Anonymous No.16797989]

>>16788147
Can anyone tell me what word I'm looking for?

>Like all children, they don't have a personal investment in religious ___, for to them, it's only a curiosity of those who are older.

[Anonymous No.16798315]

Little late,

Still would like anons thought and advice on how I should continue what I am currently writing right now.

>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I4eKHEs0edy4rkrDpRSZ21ifmxl5tzbuJnusjymTyyo/edit

[Anonymous No.16798418]

>too obsessed with muh nuance and symbols
>can't come up with plot for shit
i want off this ride

[Anonymous No.16798591]

>>16797778
Does this scene contribute to your greater goal?
Does Isiah exist only in relation to Harrison? What is his purpose?
Only to provide you a few sentences, or is this presented to give the reader insight into the characters?

This is not criticism, just an encouragement to keep your purpose in mind when writing, writing only things that need to be written.
It may be vague, but the development of a careful attitude is the only way to write something worth being written.

>>16797989
I disagree with the premise of the sentence, but perhaps you could simply edit "religious" to "religion".

>>16798315
Are you a native speaker of English?
In your writing, there is an abundance of grammatical errors and constructions that sound unnatural.

As for content, I would repeat the advice I wrote earlier, that you should have a purpose for writing in mind and work towards its fulfillment.

[Anonymous No.16798614]

>>16798591
Im entirely ESL

[Anonymous No.16798726]

>>16792577
people don't talk like that, anon. is this translated into english? anyway, just picture two people acting out this scene. it sounds jarring, does it not? like they're reading off a script? i suggest imitating other people's speech -- not necessarily IRL, but from real life moves/scenes.
some things to pick out:

>and you could have just taken
people tend to say 'could've'. you don't take the time to spell shit out especially when you're angry

>"...next time, get your own bloody parcel.” she wagged her finger. “What did you get anyway?”
so she paused, wagged her finger, then continued talking?
"...next time, get your own bloody parcel.” She turned away and opened the door. “What did you get anyway?”

beyond dialogue, there are also the actions to think about. the mom didn't seem angry. if anything, it almost seemed like a parody of the stereotypical nagging mom. would she really knock on his door? she would've slammed it.

>The thundering footsteps grew louder and the door cracked open violently. His mother was fuming.
>"Pick up the door you lazy sack of shit!"
>Anon exhaled with audible irritation, taking off his headphones but not his eyes from the screen.
>"What are you doing in here all day? Those games make you happy? Get off your ass and grow up for once. I'm sick of your crap."
>"Was that my parcel?"
>The black plastic wrapped box flew over his hair and hit the wardrobe with a bang. "Next time you buy things with my money, I'm throwing it in the trash." She slammed the door with such force that Anon felt his chair shaking. Hope the book's okay, he thought.

not the best rewrite and it's in third person, but you get the point.

it's good that you realize this is not good, but it's important to have at least some confidence in yourself. you need confidence to take critique and learn from your mistakes. i love that final sentence, though.

[Anonymous No.16798741]

>>16798418
Watch some David Lynch before a writing session

[Anonymous No.16798752]

>dive deep into various life situations for years in order to have what to write about
>the most interesting situations are too personal for other people to write about them as is, and can only serve for inspiration

[Anonymous No.16798902]

I present my writing only after having offered critique previously in the thread

does my work have value bereft of a disciplined poetic style, or should I try developing such a thing?
I do not write much and the things I have written are not meant to be performed, so my inclination has been that stylistic rigor is less important

[Anonymous No.16799000]

>>16798902
Sorry for laying it out so cruelly, but in my ESL eyes this reads as something written by an edgy high schooler.

[Anonymous No.16799033]

>>16798902
Your poem reads very contrived and overwrought. Your post itself also sounds totally affected. You use the words "bereft of" instead of "without", and the words "developing such a thing" instead of "to develop it." More words to say the same thing is not more intelligent, nor more poetic.

[Anonymous No.16799041]

>>16798752
Use your imagination

[Anonymous No.16799051]

>>16798902

[Anonymous No.16799056]

>>16799033
>More words to say the same thing is not more intelligent, nor more poetic.

Sometimes it is.

[Anonymous No.16799057]

>>16788147
Why do I love my writings, when no one does? Am I too confident?

[Anonymous No.16799067]

>>16799057
yes, or you simply have shit taste

[Anonymous No.16799071]

>>16799056
>Sometimes it is.

No, it literally never is. If your idea is more complex, or more nuanced, then you can elaborate to illustrate that. Simply replacing words with slightly more obscure synonyms or wordy phrases is how high schoolers write essays. It's transparent.

[Anonymous No.16799094]

>>16788147
This is a dialogue I wrote. Opinions?

'' What are you doing here? Are you a civilian? An ottoman? Answer back! ’’ She warns me aggressively, glaring at me through what he's holding. She has reddish hair and blue eyes, a flat nose and a small complexion, with high cheekbones and an oval face. She reminds me of someone, and his beauty mesmerizes and disturbs me. "You do not understand me, do you?" Damn Turk .''- '' I understand you, excuse me. I think I know you. "" "" Speak English? You don't look like English. No, you don't know me, and I don't know you. Tell me who you are, you shouldn't be here. '' - '' Hey, I've seen some four-legged things coming closer, and they don't look very friendly. '' - '' What do you say? The jackals? But they are less than foxes. Answer, Who are you and what are you doing here? '' - '' I do not know. ’’ - ‘’ Get up, now. ’’ She orders me, bringing what she is holding. - '' I can't, I'm hurt. '' - '' Injured? I don't see blood. Is that thing about the shawl you're wearing vomit? ’’ - She asks with deep disgust. - ‘’ Yes, I don't know why it happened. I am hurt, I have nailed my nail in my big toe. Look. "- I answer her, showing her my foot. Her scowl and tight mouth don't inspire much conviction. - "It hurts". - I insist. And her answer is to hit me on the head with the back of what she is carrying ... '' Get up, Turk! '' - I compose myself from the daze, and try to stand up without supporting my big toe much. I get up, and I see that I am bigger than her. - ‘’ Now tell me who the hell are you and what are you doing here or I will execute you right here. ’’ - ‘’ I tell you I don’t know. Please believe me. I have appeared here, I don't know how I got there. I only know that I have arrived. "" - "" Do you take opium? "-" "What? -‘ Do you take opium!?’ ’-‘ ’I don’t know what that is, so no.’

[Anonymous No.16799107]

>>16799071
Word placement, and line length is important in poetry, some of the time.
If they were trying to get the flow of the poem to run smoother, then more words or 'obscure synonyms' can work better than just saying what they mean.

[Anonymous No.16799142]

>>16799094
Are you ESL? It all seems very unnatural to me.

[Anonymous No.16799192]

Every ESL is based

[Anonymous No.16799251]

>>16797989
Practices? Traditions? Doctrine? Teachings? Rituals? Ceremonies? Legends?

[Anonymous No.16799261]

>Everyone wants to read classical poetry
>Contemporary poetry is being run by influencers

Why live?

[Anonymous No.16799290]

>>16799000
it was first drafted when I was younger and considering suicide, so your criticism is not without merit

>>16799033
this is the earnest manner in which I communicate through writing; feigning sophistication is not my intention
I was not educated well, so maybe that is the source of perceived unnaturalness, but I am unsure how to remedy it
I do, however, enjoy older forms of writing, and think that the English language has become a vulgar monstrosity

thank you for your responses, I will flagellate myself with a thesaurus and hope my next writing is of greater quality

[Anonymous No.16799296]

>>16795848
it’s me. Thank you so much for reading it and critiquing . I agree with a lot of what you said and will keep that in mind when taking another crack at it.

Also in regards to bit characters like Jane in was thinking of doing a series of short stories linked by characters and themes so Jane would get her story later . Still not sure what I’ll do, but I have a better what I should now. Thanks again Anon

[Anonymous No.16799364]

>read la crítica de la razón literaria
>realize most of what I consider literature isn’t literature and the standards for writing literature are so fucking high that only a literal genius could do it

This fucker ruined it for me; maybe I can make it as a ya writer but I will never write something that can be called literature. How do you all cope with this?

[Anonymous No.16799396]

Can anyone seriously critique my first scene of my short story?

https://pastebin.com/bR2bg8Gp

[Anonymous No.16799439]

>>16799142
Yes. The original text is in spanish, I just did a fast translation with google kek

[Anonymous No.16799469]

>>16796384
To me it is pretty based

>>16799067
Probably both.

[Anonymous No.16799493]

>>16799396
Learn how to use punctuation with dialogue correctly. You don't deserve any more critique than that at this point.

[Anonymous No.16799504]

>>16799493
what's wrong with it?

[Anonymous No.16799527]

>>16799504
Read a book and look at the dialogue punctuation.

[Anonymous No.16799669]

>>16798902
This is good for song lyrics. As poetry, it doesn't really stand alone as having direction or meaning.

>>16799504
>"Here," she said, "I'll give this to you"
is one proper sentence.
>"Here." she said. "I'll give this to you."
is three sentences, one which is improper.
>"Here," she said. "I'll give this to you."
is two proper sentences.
>"Here." She said the word flatly. "I'll give this to you."
is three proper sentences.

Note the punctuation and capitalization used.

[Anonymous No.16799680]

>>16799669
If it's not obvious, there should be a period after the "you" in the first example. That was just a typo.

[Anonymous No.16799704]

>>16794945
no offense but do you have some sort of mental affliction?

[Anonymous No.16799731]

>>16799704
shit, not him but he's probably just a massive casual desu

[Anonymous No.16799810]

>>16795276
You can write about your depression. My diary from circa 2017 is 109 megabytes of suicidal thoughts, bitter tears of hatred and broken dreams.

[Anonymous No.16799813]

>>16799810
post it

[Anonymous No.16799831]

>>16788714
How many words are each of your books roughly?

[Anonymous No.16799863]

>>16799813
Honestly it's incredibly repetitive and even if I stripped it of all personal identifiers it wouldn't make for an entertaining read.

[Anonymous No.16799881]

>>16799863
how about posting a paragraph/summary of what you think is the most interesting/meaningful?

[Anonymous No.16799916]

>>16799251
>Practices?
Yes! Something like that. Maybe more like customs? Thank you for your help, anon

[Anonymous No.16800034]

>>16799881
Why do you want to know? One of the things I grew to understand is that people today look at each other as entertainment. Even getting interested in someone's suicide logs to see if you can say something helpful is surrogate entertainment, like interacting with a character in a stupid videogame. If I posted a paragraph you'd just think that the thoughts in it are too offputting to prompt the canned advice of seeking a therapist.

[Anonymous No.16800184]

Anyone read anything on Royal Road? Post anything? I'll be posting my first book a scene per day when it's ready in a few weeks.

[Anonymous No.16800229]

How do you name your characters?
Do you just give them random generic names, or do you try and put some thought into the meaning behind it?

I have a few characters, but no name seems to fit them.

[Anonymous No.16800240]

After getting roasted for my first scene, should I just give up?

[Anonymous No.16800294]

>>16800184
I started posting a web novel that got some views but I stopped uploading stuff because I'm bad with pressure and deadlines. I'm still writing the story between other books, but I probably won't upload more until I have another 60k finished.

[Anonymous No.16800301]

>>16800229
The setting usually begs the question of the name. For my fantasy series I tend to lean on whatever sounds English but a bit unusual.

Haggerton. Lannerleigh. Knighthaven.

For more important names I take two words that describe I associate with them and mix it up.

For instance.

Lady Hat. Could be Hady Lade. Just has a bit of a ring to it with minimal effort.

[Anonymous No.16800308]

>>16800294
Did you get much in the way of a following?

[Anonymous No.16800317]

>>16794254
>Shitposter in author form

[Anonymous No.16800337]

>>16800308
Nah, not really. I expected nothing but ended up getting a few hundred views each time I uploaded a chapter. One guy always commented on them, which was nice but made me feel horrible when I stopped uploading.

[Anonymous No.16800455]

>>16799396
Have you changed anything at all since last time you posted this? Seems like people are giving you genuine feedback already and you aren't implementing.

Like the other guy said, work on your grammar first of all. Then your sentence structure and construction. Then the dialogue.

[Anonymous No.16800534]

i wrote a short story for class and am trying to manage the edge for it. here's two paragraphs from it so far
>Wind is nothing, Barabbas thought, no color, no object, and its biting cold is not even its own. Yet no other thought could enter his mind with each trudging step but that this wind was blacker than night and filled with violent hatred for him. This had been the only song he’d ever heard for at least two moons, this abhorrent orchestra of wind between the limbs of dead bushes on ground hallowed by salt and blood. In his youth the Caucuses had been his father and his education, but returning with his white coat still on his shoulders had turned the land against him. His map must have hated him too for having cursed it every half-kilometer since he entered Armenia. He found serenity in thinking that He who gave him this day would also give him all things necessary for it.

and

>Through a winding stair of glowing amatia he walked, holding to himself closely his satchel of notes and books that had so failed to prepare him for what he saw as the banality of his vertebrate form in the eyes of God. Through their fountains and gates of moss he walked, not feeling a single step, only aligning his tempo with an ingrained Hesychast plea for “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” The canyon he entered had such beautiful bioluminescence to light the choir before him. Man had lived here as intended for millennia without consideration of what it meant to reject and hate God. Their song will be beautiful, in spite of their forms, he thought. Even if not fulfillment of his work, glory or honor in the scientific world, he’d become elated once he heard their song. He had dug his fingers into his palms to the point of drawing blood in anticipation, hoping his maddening rage and throbbing head would come to an end. He’d waited months for a new song, and he’d finally found it. And almost sensing this, they began to sing.
Though their mouths lie open as though in song, Barabbas heard nothing but their thousands of wings beating like drums that had shaken his core when he’d entered Eden. They’d been singing the whole time, he realized, singing for and adding to the beauty of all creation. Singing to welcome a form that, to them, looked as disfigured as they had to him. And he’d heard none of it. And he heard none of it now. And he would never be able to hear any of it. And he wept.

[Anonymous No.16800639]

>>16800534
Love it except the last part. Instead of using ''And'' in the last three phrases to add a dramatic effect, connect them with a rational conclution so it is more ''dispairing''. I mean, it would be fine if it wasn't the end. If you continue writing, then, keep it like that.

[Anonymous No.16800669]

>>16800534
Get rid of the two moons crap, it ruins it and makes it read like you’re trying WAY too hard

[Anonymous No.16800737]

>>16800669
That part is perfectly fine. Faggots who argue that a detail/part ruins the whole thing, or that ''it reads like you're trying WAY too hard'', aren't genuine and deserve the rope for being dense pseuds.

[Anonymous No.16800780]

>>16800639
How does
>He realized he'd heard none of it, and he would not hear it now, and he would not hear it ever. And he wept.
sound? I really want that part to be short so its close to John 11:35, but I don't like the other full stop lines either

[Anonymous No.16800871]

>>16800780
Much better. For the third phrase, use ''nor'' so it is less repetitive. ''Nor would heard it ever.'' For the last phrase, eliminate the ''and'', and use his name instead of he. ''Barabbas wept''. Then, it is even closer to John 11:35. Again, if you continue writing after that, do not change anything, because as a premise for more, it is better like it is.

[Anonymous No.16800904]

I do not really write, but is it better to be dry/simple or would you rather be purple? A lot of the prose here reads way more elaborate than how I'd write. Maybe it's because I'm ESL but I have a hard time even following it. Is it really that bad to write in a simple way?
>There was no chair, but the fireplace was still red with embers. He sat down on the bare stone floor and placed the books to his side. Everything in the room was covered in a thick layer of dust. He imagined the smell of blood that at some point in time had filled the room's every corner. He recalled the smell from his visit to the other temple. He recalled the sights. The rituals would eventually only leave behind a blanket of dust like that he was now standing on. The thought comforted him as he started drawing the ritual circle.

[Anonymous No.16800922]

I write 1000-2000 words of bad literature a day. It is thematically what I am aiming for but:
1. I am theory heavy and plot light
2. Relationships are too subtextual but how do I avoid personal exposition?
3. I keep oscillating between caring if someone wants to read it and the intrinsic joy of writing. How do I choose a path?
4. I get esoteric too much. Not big brain just bicycle design or neuroscience through the ages or something. How much is no longer charming?

[Anonymous No.16800928]

>>16800534
Preddy good, really! Sounds very McCarthy-ish to me, in a positive way; not an imitation, but a style you've made your own. You're clearly familiar with the setting and have a firm vision on where you're taking things. A few little hiccups, but nothing that would detract from the whole. I'm frankly impressed.

[Anonymous No.16801021]

>>16800904
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with writing in a simple style, and you should definitely keep things simple if you know you'll lose your horses trying to get crafty. But you should be aware that the fewer words you use, the more important each of them becomes. Nobody wants to read a book that's both plain and boring.

[Anonymous No.16801028]

>>16792880
drinking helps but be careful with it

[Anonymous No.16801039]

>>16800922
>but how do I avoid personal exposition?
I don't understand why you need to. The details may seem on the nose to you, but readers have no idea what you're thinking. As long as you don't overly describe everything, outright telling stuff every now and then is fine.
>How do I choose a path?
Stick with writing for yourself. If you ever decide you want to publish stuff ten years from now, all you'll need to do is look through your mountains of trash and decide which would be the easiest to rewrite into something that would sell.

[Anonymous No.16801053]

>>16801021
>But you should be aware that the fewer words you use, the more important each of them becomes.
This is great advice, I'll keep it in mind.
Were you referring to that paragraph specifically, or in general?

[Anonymous No.16801056]

>>16800922
Write for yourself but limit to a format (short story, novella, novel). Need tension. Some exposition is fine.

[Anonymous No.16801068]

>>16800904
>it better to be dry/simple or would you rather be purple?
It is better to be genuine with what you want to say. Sometimes, it is purple, sometimes, dry an simple. It has to be truthful, and loyal to itself.

>Is it really that bad to write in a simple way?
Not at all. What you wrote is pretty good. A direct/dry narrative isn't really ''simple''. Simplicity is more about superficiality, therefore, false and disloyal to its identity. To be respectful, a piece of writing work has to be like a piece of a living person: Prepared to defend himself from everything that might go against it. Your writing has integrity, and that's what matters.

[Anonymous No.16801099]

>>16801056
What's the best way to give exposition.

[Anonymous No.16801179]

>>16788714
I just finished Crocodile. I’ll give you credit where it’s due that I don’t think I’ve seen a twist like that before. Pretty original. You should get a professional editor. Do this asap.

[Anonymous No.16801233]

>>16801068
I winged that part while I wrote the post, so I didn't really know what I was doing. I agree that one should be true while writing, but since I'm ESL I wasn't sure if I defaulted to simple, passable prose or I was actually just inarticulate.

[Anonymous No.16801269]

>>16801053
>Were you referring to that paragraph specifically, or in general?
Kind of both. I'd rather not judge a short passage without knowing the context, but you should consider if a sentence like,
>Everything in the room was covered in a thick layer of dust.
is worth typing out, or if you could convey the same by just saying, for example, "dust-coated floor" in the previous sentence. If the floor has dust, then reader will understand that everything else must be the same way, and you can delete this sentence of low information value entirely, in favor of something more essential.

Also, be careful with how you construct your sentences. Like here,
>There was no chair, but the fireplace was still red with embers.
The absence of the chair has no perceivable connection to the fireplace, but including them in the same sentence gives the impression that there is a link, and makes me wonder if I didn't miss something. Maybe not the effect you want to give.

[Anonymous No.16801289]

>>16801056
>>16801039
Thanks based advice givers.

I'm aiming for an average novel.

I will try to exposition some of the vagueness away.

[Anonymous No.16801299]

>>16792880
I keep my laptop next to my bed. When my alarm goes off and it's too cold to take my legs from under the cover, I write on my lap for a couple thousand words before work. It helps that my gf brings me am espresso.

[Anonymous No.16801313]

Should I edit a scene after I write it, or should I finish the story before editing it?

[Anonymous No.16801325]

>>16801269
>is worth typing out, or if you could convey the same by just saying, for example, "dust-coated floor" in the previous sentence.
In my mind, the character was looking around and observing that everything was coated in dust. Is it not worth it to sacrifice some economy for the sake of time? I pretty much think in terms of camera takes when I write a sentence. Maybe I should be more descriptive when I do that.

[Anonymous No.16801331]

>>16797095
Stranger Things? Did you read the whole book? Book goes in a much different direction than first chapters. I read this book in addition to Crocodile but it was significantly better.
>>16788714
Again at least hire a freelance editor. Start going to critique circles. You also repeat a lot. "Character walked down a dark hallway." Change things up. You must have a better vocabulary than that.
Your books aren't bad. But as others are pointing out DESPERATELY need editing.

[Anonymous No.16801340]

Is this a good scene?

There was a loud knock on the front door, adjacent to my bedroom, followed by another soon after, and then another on my bedroom window, and then another soon after; And a louder, slower thud thereafter. And after that, the impatient stretch and squeeze of the plastic wrap, and its subsequent scratch of fingernails, and then the slap and pull of the window frame, followed by the peel of the blinds – and the volume of the television culminated with that eye.
The front door opened, and both the television and the rain muffled my mother’s voice. Soon after, she knocked on my bedroom door.
Derek strolled in and dropped his suitcase onto the floor; he held his head in his hands and sighed. Mother stood behind him, patting away the trailing water droplets on his suit like she was grooming her pet dog for fleas: it was sickening.
He planted himself on my chair and booted up the PS4.

[Anonymous No.16801356]

>>16801233
In that sense, the best way of improving is learning grammar. But, then, it isn't about being simple or purple. Bee yourself.

>>16801269
>"dust-coated floor"
That would be better if the narrator was a non-omnipresent third person, but, in this case, ''Everything in the room was covered in a thick layer of dust.'' gives a sense of individuality, like it's from the eyes of the subject.

>The absence of the chair has no perceivable connection to the fireplace
It has. ''There is no chair but, I will sit in the floor because there is a fireplace''.

[Anonymous No.16801386]

>>16801331
I almost forgot. Here's another one of your biggest issues. Who exactly are you trying to market these books to, Gardner? Your covers make it seem like they're children's books. They're way too fucking depressing and edgy for them to succeed if that's your audience.
You also use meta shit a lot. There's nothing wrong with that. But it's an extremely small part of the horror demographic. I don't want to be discouraging but your books seem like a marketers worst nightmare. Tone down the weirdness and consider hiring a cover artist to better match your targeted audience.

[Anonymous No.16801413]

>>16801325
The problem is, the sentence is common and boring. "Everything" is a very vague and weak word. Camera gives a detailed image. What is "everything", what is in the room, how does the dust cover it?

>>16801356
>''There is no chair but, I will sit in the floor because there is a fireplace''.
That's fair, but why not just write it like this then? So much more effective.

[Anonymous No.16801455]

>>16801413
>That's fair, but why not just write it like this then? So much more effective.
Because the narrator is an omnipresent third person (It sees from everywhere, yet, it sees inside others). If it was in first person and the narrator was the subject, sure.

[Anonymous No.16801483]

>>16801455
You do realize there is a way to tell the same in third person too?

[Anonymous No.16801564]

>>16800184
I post stuff. I'm at 170K words and have been posting daily for about ~100 days.

[Anonymous No.16801578]

>>16801564
So how's your statistics?

[Anonymous No.16801588]

>>16801483
But it would be worst in comparison because of the narrator. ''There was no chair, but the fireplace was still red with embers.'' is better than ''There is no chair, but he sat down on the floor because there is a fireplace''. because the first gives us an individual insight while being in third person, which is appropiate for a omnipresent narrator. The second is more external, more of a non-personal description, more according to a non-omnipresent third person. ''He did that because of that'', like someone is processing as a witness what other person is doing. Still, minor details that vary on the intention of the writer.

[Anonymous No.16801590]

>>16801578
Almost 100 followers. About 33K views. I'm getting about 300 views a chapter on average, but I'm getting 450-600 views a day. On the weekend it increases on the upper end and it's where I get most of my followers, I think.

[Anonymous No.16801622]

>>16801590
What's worked in terms of broadening your audience?

[Anonymous No.16801645]

>>16801622
Posting every single day at the same time, that's all I did.

[Anonymous No.16801654]

>>16801413
>''There is no chair but, I will sit in the floor because there is a fireplace''.
I'm interested in this and the discussion because I deal with this a lot while I write. I tend to omit stuff or leave it between the lines but I'm not sure if it's too much. In this case I thought that a lit fireplace implied that someone had been sitting in front of it. That the character decided to sit was not planned, he just did because I imagined he would do so. He was carrying books so maybe he just wanted to take them off his back. So he put them down and observed the room for a while before starting the ritual.
When I imagined the room I was thinking of a gargoyle or some kind of stone figure with its mouth agape, framed close up in wide angle, but I didn't want to give too much visual detail so I avoided describing that specifically because I felt like it would take away from the image of a room covered by really thick dust.
This is the mental process, sort of

[Anonymous No.16801758]

>>16801654
Your narrative style seems to be a mix of omnipresent and individual insight. Like a god-like being is living what the character/subject is living at the same time that it is a third person. A normal person doesn't process with heavy details the scenario in which he is, so, such third person that experiences the first person of the subject shouldn't either. This narrative is probably more used in broad and intimate scenarios, like an epic type but with much more focus in the character, his emotions, struggles and development.

[Anonymous No.16801780]

>>16801588
Your argument is a straw man. I said the same information could be conveyed in the third person, not that the sentence should be that word-for-word. It's obviously up to anon himself how to spell it.

If you insist to know, I'd do it like this,
>The fireplace was still red with embers. There were no chairs, so he sat on the floor and put the books down beside him.
No confusion, logical continuity.

[Anonymous No.16801781]

>>16801758
>This narrative is probably more used in broad and intimate scenarios, like an epic type but with much more focus in the character, his emotions, struggles and development.
Yes! This is what everything I make is about. It's all huge individualistic epics. It's cool that the writing gives off this impression since I rarely write prose and I don't know what I'm doing.

[Anonymous No.16801798]

>>16801780
>There were no chairs, so he sat on the floor
Not to object, but I feel that leaves out the part where someone lit the fireplace but didn't have a chair to sit on. I think it cuts off that thought about the past, and that passage was entirely about the consequences of the past.
How would you do it if you wanted to keep that?

[Anonymous No.16801812]

>>16801654
>When I imagined the room I was thinking of a gargoyle or some kind of stone figure with its mouth agape, framed close up in wide angle, but I didn't want to give too much visual detail
What I don't get is why'd you decide omit the one detail that gives your room real character, and leave it just "a dusty room" instead.

[Anonymous No.16801819]

>>16801798
>I feel that leaves out the part where someone lit the fireplace but didn't have a chair to sit on.
It doesn't? It's implicit.

[Anonymous No.16801846]

>>16801812
Every time I've seen something covered by a lot of dust and/or abandoned for a very long time, it was difficult to make out single objects. Everything looks a bit more uniform, like objects under a blanket. My mental image was murky so I didn't feel like going into detail.
Again that's the mental process. I didn't want the character to be interested in anything specific either, because I imagined he wouldn't be curious to know if those things on the ground were dust-covered bones or something else.
What I wanted to convey was that things happened in this place and only dust is left.
Also I think the more you describe, the longer the "take". Going in detail about something gives me a sense of heightened time.
Again that's the process in my head.

[Anonymous No.16801944]

>>16801781
I love these types of narratives. Like autism, it is in a spectrum: Sometimes focuses in heavy detail, specially if it confronts the individual in some sense (to contrast him with the external) and sometimes focuses in a more casual flow, specially if it's monotonous for the character. Dynamic, yet, personal and unique.

>It's cool that the writing gives off this impression since I rarely write prose and I don't know what I'm doing.
Only for those who care enough. Have Faith in your work as an extension of yourself, do not trust others to treat it as it should, because the majority of people are a bunch of egomaniacs who don't care about Truth. Fuck readers, fuck writers, and glory be to words.

[Anonymous No.16801959]

>>16801846
Well, if the room is not important, then the room is not important. But you should worry more about your reader's perspective than that of the fictional character. I don't know what goes through your or the dude's head, unless you present it properly.

[Anonymous No.16801982]

>>16788714
JK Rowling and Stephen King are characters in your book?? You must have some ego.

[Anonymous No.16802000]

>>16801780
>The fireplace was still red with embers. There were no chairs, so he sat on the floor and put the books down beside him.
Much less intimate. That type of narration is great too, but I don't think it is compatible with anon's. Yet, if it is for you, that's good.

>>16801959
>But you should worry more about your reader's perspective than that of the fictional character
If the reader doesn't like the perspective of the fictional character, the reader isn't worth to meet such fictional character. If the fictional character worries more about the perspective of others than of his own, the fictional character is a faggot who has no self-respect, and his existence isn't worth.

[Anonymous No.16802119]

>>16801982
Sounds like the retarded plot devices he does. His books somehow have a decent amount of ratings. Kinda jealous that this retard is like the most noteworthy writer from here.
Gardner why did you publish all of these books in a month? I cannot for the life of me rationalize the logic any writer would do so.

[Anonymous No.16802957]

>>16788913
>my personal experiences
you should compile them into a big bin

[Anonymous No.16802983]

Always wanted to write a novel about fatalism of genocides (being from ethnicity that experienced it first hand) and accepting and adapting to new normal after atrocity like death of a loved one.
Both macro and micro, several characters, level and social consequences of it translated (projected) into fiction.

Perhaps one day.

[Anonymous No.16802988]

>>16802983
Though none of that edgy war is bad, more like it happened life goes on faggot.

[Anonymous No.16803515]

>>16801590
>>16801645
Sounds really nice. But on average what is your average word count per chapter? I can shit out 5k words every week and that's it since I have other projects going on, so I divide that amount into two chapters per week. But around 2k words a day is not too insane if you devote all your free time to one single project.

[Anonymous No.16803547]

is prose or poetry better for writing about love?

[Anonymous No.16803594]

Hey anybody use Amazon ads for their stories? I don't seem to be getting sales based on them. What am I missing?

[Anonymous No.16803686]

How do you not self insert when writing and start cringing. Im not self inserting but then i think what if I were and then its too cringe for me to continue.

[Anonymous No.16803763]

>>16803547
Whatever you feel works best, anon

[Anonymous No.16803777]

>>16803686
Just make your self-insert say the n word, so you're based and not cringe.

[Anonymous No.16803797]

>>16803777
>He viciously said the n-word

[Anonymous No.16803806]

>>16803777
Godly trips. Checked.

[Anonymous No.16803825]

>>16803515
1-3K, average of 1.5K.
I at least write that chapter for the day, but I have many more projects I write for.

[Anonymous No.16803954]

>>16800034
just curious and desperate for >inspiration, man

[Anonymous No.16804053]

>>16800184
I've been posting my web novel there starting 6 months ago. I had a bit of an awkward beginning but I rewrote early chapters so that the early chapters don't give me permanent anxiety anymore. I'ma t 153k words. 96 followers and 16k views, hit over 300 views average views recently.

[Anonymous No.16804100]

>>16804053
As for webfictions I've been following about 9, all of them except for 2 went on hiatus which is a shame, but it is what it is.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/35123/cybernetic-dragon - This ones fun, it's some dragon-protag isekai that I've been enjoying.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/33024/a-fractured-song Another isekai with a focus on a protag and her trauma. A real rollercoaster of feels for the first few arcs.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/34777/hilda-finds-a-home - There's also this fun little thing, a D&D spoof that's a bit on the mature side. Sadly the author got hit with life so it entered hiatus. Philly best girl.

[Anonymous No.16804456]

>>16804100
Maybe there's a few gems in the genre, but I can't help but detest anything with the isekai tag, or anything that based on video game/tabletop games trope. Most of the times people who employ those tropes are lazy writers

[Anonymous No.16804523]

>>16804456
I had a general dislike for isekai but I warmed up to it partly because of Saga the Tanya the Evil. I only started reading Dragon and Fractured because of offers for review swaps, but I started following them out of interest even after I finished reviewing them. The other fics I follow are mostly urban fantasy, with a few anons from here writing burgerpunk and wuxia—both anons fell into hiatus, sadly.

[Anonymous No.16804562]

Death of a father.

The Ford Falcon trudged along to the hospital through roads of streets and avenues. The local parish school that occupied the corner of the street was just let out causing traffic to come to a sluggish pace. A sea of children in little blue and grey uniforms swarmed the street. I heard high pitched squeals and laughter of school kids as I drove to the lollipop crossing. Mandy’s phone was blaring in its uncanny robotic voice. “Left turn. 30 meters. Don’t stop.” I stopped at the command of the man wearing a High-Viz shirt and waited for the children to cross. I glanced at Mandy in the passenger seat and evaluated her outfit. She was wearing a creased SafeMart shirt with a black skirt and nylon stockings, my personal favourite. I was wearing my checked collar shirt and black suit pants as well as my SafeMart name tag. I didn’t know if my outfit was appropriate for death. I turned left at the roundabout, just as Mandy’s phone had instructed. The sun had come out behind the clouds revealing a half-night.
Various health specialist buildings that were once homes to an older generation were littered along the street road. Anything from Phillip’s Prime Dental to Dick’s Psychotherapy Intuition, all the way up to Jane’s Clinic for the Clinically Depressed, which was adjacent to the Nephrology clinic, ran by an old school classmate of mine Doctor David Bergman, who incidentally himself suffered from Autosomal dominant polycystic kidney disease which in turn caused him to suffer kidney stones. This intimate bit of information was made known to the me by his Facebook page. He likes to post black boarded pictures of the jagged stones accompanied by quotes from Emil Cioran. He is able to consistently garner 30 likes per picture now. His posts about his own self diagnosed life expectancy of 5 years are sometimes able to produce 50! We are the same age.

[Anonymous No.16805737]

>>16802000
>If the fictional character worries more about the perspective of others than of his own
Why can't the people on /wg/ understand what they read?

[Anonymous No.16805760]

>>16804562
Is dialysis not available?

[Anonymous No.16805780]

How to describe a scene where a female character suddenly becomes "milky"? As in, she produces milk from her "breasts," otherwise know as the lactation process.

[Anonymous No.16805814]

>>16805780
Make it clear that this is caused by a neurohumoral axis. Discuss the pathways through the body and end the section with a drip of milk beading on her nipple. Imbue the drop with the history of milk from the nascence of Mammalia.

[Anonymous No.16805932]

>>16804456
these days I automatically discard isekai or any other modern genre tag, lgbt or written by a woman

[Anonymous No.16805935]

how to get published in a literary journal? none meme answers pls

[Anonymous No.16805967]

>>16805935
does lit quarterly count?

[Anonymous No.16805973]

>>16805967
idk does it?

[Anonymous No.16806003]

>>16805973
if it does, you could try there. There might be less competition and you can participate in the dumpsterfire lit quarterly threads

[Anonymous No.16806015]

>>16806003
can i put it on my portfolio?

[Anonymous No.16806023]

>>16806015
yeah, it's actually respectable. Not like the other works that came out of /lit/, like hypersphere or the nigger story

[Anonymous No.16806031]

>>16806023
Yeah because it mostly accepts twitter and reddit fags now, the one or two anons are included only to keep lit name it its title.

[Anonymous No.16806034]

>>16806023
>the nigger story
is it the one with the guy at the gas station and "sweet dreams are made of these"?

[Anonymous No.16806037]

>>16806023
Okay I'll submit there then.

[Anonymous No.16806039]

>>16806034
He's talking about the novel that was like 40% the word nigger.

[Anonymous No.16806045]

>>16806034
I'm not sure, I only glanced at it

[Anonymous No.16806566]

>>16800240
no, you retard

[Anonymous No.16806588]

>haven't written anything in a while
>today had a long interesting dream great for a light novel about isekai
>want to start writing again
Pic rel is me
I'm going to make it bros

[Anonymous No.16806646]

I underestimated how valuable a good editor is. I thought an editor, well, edited but more for proofreading reasons. My editor does such a great job its like I can ready my own stories as if a professional had written it. Things like careful word choice, flow, etc, come from my editor.

Underrated desu.

[Anonymous No.16806670]

>>16806646
How do I find a good editor?

[Anonymous No.16806682]

>>16806670
I can recommend mine if you want?

[Anonymous No.16806684]

>>16806682
Yes, please

[Anonymous No.16806704]

>>16806684
Here's their website. If you look at the prices it's actually way cheaper than your average editor.

https://thefinishedlineedit.com/

[Anonymous No.16806766]

>>16806704
Not shitting on them or anything but I take this from an article on their website on self editing:
>Does your story have consistent themes running throughout?
>Is there a clear beginning, middle, and end (not necessarily in that order)?
>Does it develop gradually towards a conflict?
>Do the central characters have motivations?
>Does your protagonist drive the plot (as opposed to simply reacting to things to happen to them)?
>Is the resolution satisfying?
>Does it tie up the loose ends?

I only agree with the first and last point. They seem to think editing is making something marketable, which is not wrong, I guess, but it still irks me in a wrong way.

[Anonymous No.16806817]

>>16806766
I think these kind of articles are the sort of things people to do to pad out their site. I wouldn't take it too seriously.

[Anonymous No.16806826]

>>16806817
I would put this shit up just to drive off 99% amateur writers who don't know what they're doing.
I'd rather check how many women in the company are decision makers.

[Anonymous No.16806837]

>>16806826
Do you realise how bad the average writer is? Here we get a select idea of 4chan-centric writers. Typically men under the age of forty, but who knows for sure.

You need to account for people who have never written a story before. Someone might try their hand at a children's book, or some boomer wants to write their life's memoir. They have no idea what they're doing, which is a strong reason why they take the plunge early and get an editor to help them.

[Anonymous No.16806877]

>>16806837
What I means is that I would put that list up on the site it if helps filter people whose work would require a complete rewrite instead of just editing.

[Anonymous No.16806884]

>>16806877
That's what developmental editing is for.

[Anonymous No.16806932]

>>16791044
It's ironic, right? You can't be a 13yo who really thinks that this is deep and inspiring, right?

[Anonymous No.16806943]

>>16791044
>I begin to open my eyes to the dull noise of the distant echoes of my own existence wrapped in a forgotten night
bro I'm not going to read that, just write
>I woke up
for the love of God

[Anonymous No.16806965]

>>16806646
Could you post a before and after?

[Anonymous No.16807004]

>>16806965
This is before:

In the moment he ate the grapes they were little more than a novelty, the glistening violet marbles bursting with sweet juice. Maybe he knew even then it was destined not to last. What a garish sight he must have looked reclined on the king-sized bed that early evening dressed in that newly tailored ballroom suit, with all its glitters and sparkles like stardust caught in cream. There was a warm breeze from the window nearby tickling his bare feet; and beyond, framed perfectly, wisps of clouds ushering the sun to sleep and the pinkest sky he had ever seen. Hress Dunter was both tall and handsome. He was broad-shouldered, and barrel-chested, with large hands. As big as he was he retained a good deal of wiry-youthed muscle. His long reddish-brown hair was streaked back and tied in place like a pirate, with one long vanity lock of hair curling upwards at the front in defiance of gravity. His most distinctive feature was his strong jawline and large dimpled chin. What minimal threatening quality there might have been to Hress’ good looks was tempered down from his youth of farm and servant work, not to mention the more recent several month stint of living and travelling in a mule-led wagon.

[Anonymous No.16807008]

>>16807004

When he ate the grapes, the glistening violet marbles were a novelty. Maybe he knew it was destined not to last. What a garish sight he must have looked on the king-sized bed that early evening dressed in his newly-tailored ballroom suit with glitters and sparkles like stardust caught in cream. A warm breeze from the window nearby tickled his bare feet, and beyond, framed perfectly, wisps of clouds ushered the sun to sleep under the pinkest sky he’d ever seen. Hress was tall and handsome, broad-shouldered, and barrel-chested, with large hands. Big as he was, he retained a good deal of wiry, youthful muscle. His long, reddish-brown hair was streaked back and tied in place like a pirate’s, with one long lock of hair curling upwards at the front in defiance of gravity. His most distinctive feature was his strong jawline and large, dimpled chin. What minimal threatening quality there might have been to Hress’ good looks was tempered from his youth of farm and servant work, not to mention the more recent several-month stint of living and travelling in a mule-led wagon.

[Anonymous No.16807015]

>>16806943
>>16806932
Yes, this is deep and inspiring

[Anonymous No.16807025]

>>16806588
Don’t get too cocky, bro, you have 50 000 words ahead of you

[Anonymous No.16807028]

>>16807008
nice. How long did the editor take?

[Anonymous No.16807034]

>>16807004
looks overcomplicated to me

[Anonymous No.16807047]

>>16807028
A few days I think. It was a decent turnaround for the few pages I sent.

>>16807034
This is close to the start of my book, so I wanted to make it extra vivid for the reader before I got lazy in the middle and near the end of the book.

[Anonymous No.16807119]

>>16807008
i wouldn't say it's very good, but it is a massive improvement.

[Anonymous No.16807318]

>>16807004
>>16807008
Am I retarded or do most words here feel weird and unneccesary? Like too poetic details. Feels out of place.

I mean things like
>When he ate the grapes, the glistening violet marbles were a novelty. Maybe he knew it was destined not to last
He just ate some grapes
or
>What a garish sight he must have looked on the king-sized bed that early evening dressed in his newly-tailored ballroom suit with glitters and sparkles like stardust caught in cream

But I'm just a mediocre retard who writes shit for fun and doesn't publish anything so maybe I'm wrong.

[Anonymous No.16807336]

>>16807318
Why stop there?

"He ate fruit."

"He sat on the bed"

[Anonymous No.16807370]

>>16807336
this but unironically
simple is best if you want to make your story actually fun

[Anonymous No.16807376]

>>16806837
It's satisfying to realize that, as a new writer, the vast majority of people you are competing with for an agent have no idea what they are doing. They don't have technical writing skills. They don't have storytelling skills. They don't know anything about the publishing industry or marketing. Yet, one thing they can have over the autist is a natural charm, like a child or a person with Down's syndrome, which allows them to write unabashedly. They are innocent and retarded, and so they share the mentality of the general consumer. That is their advantage, and sometimes they get lucky with it.

[Anonymous No.16807395]

>>16807376
You forgot sharing/understanding the tastes of their audience, which will make or break you before any other factor comes into play.
You will not be able to write Twilight if you hate how Twilight is written and you don't understand why your target audience likes it.
Basically having any identity will kill your chances at getting anywhere. This is even more important than marketing.

[Anonymous No.16807408]

>>16807376
Why do you think you are better than those average dumb writers who don't know what they are doing?

[Anonymous No.16807433]

>>16807376
For example, imagine a typical female, at the age of twenty-four, with the temerity to write a novel. The YA romance trash flows from her fingertips. She never stops to think about it. Thinking is not required. The words keep coming, a regurgitation of marketing slop and braindead tropes that she has thoughtlessly adored since her eyes first focused on a TV screen. She writes for herself: a programmed consumer, finely attuned to the cheapest cultural mores. That is what a publisher desires.

[Anonymous No.16807450]

Here's a short story I wrote

https://pastebin.com/i4JNKs6J

[Anonymous No.16807535]

>>16807395
see >>16807433

>>16807408
Better is subjective. But I can tell you that I'm not an average, dumb writer because my writing has earned a modicum of attention and money, I have published a few books, novellas, and short stories, signed with publishers, and I benefit from several years of earnestly developing my skills. I'm not a great writer. I'm probably not even a good writer. I used to be an average, dumb writer. Now, I'm something in between. Additionally, I have witnessed the writing of workshop peers—keeping in mind the fact that attending a workshop indicates above-average commitment.

[Anonymous No.16808000]

>>16807535
So long as you base your worth on the inadequacy of others and the amount of attention you are given, you will only ever be a terrible writer

[Anonymous No.16808035]

>>16808000
This.

[Anonymous No.16808109]

I'm starting to get a little anxious over the lenght of my novel. I've barely started, I'm only around three quarters into chapter 1 and I already have written 7000 words. I thought that my premise would give me enough length for a novella, but I really seem to enjoy developing every scene. My main concern is that, at this rate, I might end up with an 800 page tome and I've heard that publishers don't take kindly to new writers who present them with extensive manuscripts.
Should I be worried? It's the way I enjoy writing the most and I'm telling a story the way I would like to read it, but I don't know if this is the "correct" way to handle it.

[Anonymous No.16808148]

>>16807450
>ctrl+F 'fuck'
>10 results
You failed one of the preliminary tests for a short story, sorry anon, gonna pass.

[Anonymous No.16808166]

>>16808109
Write the way you enjoy it. Worry about length and marketing value after it's complete. That said, 7,000 words is pretty damn long for a chapter, especially an opening one. If there aren't already, add some scene breaks to give readers places where they can pause naturally. You'll also thank yourself later if/when you decide to come back and edit it.

[Anonymous No.16808184]

>>16808000
Impressive mental gymnastics.

[Anonymous No.16808196]

>>16808166
There are a few scene breaks here and there, around three if I recall correctly. They came to me when I felt that a sequence needed a moment's rest before I continued; it felt more natural that transitioning into it through more narration. That makes me wonder if there will be a sense of disconnect when reading it as a whole. I'm pretty sure that when I show this off to some confidants they're going to ride my ass over the length. Thank God editing is a thing. At least I'm not being overly verbose, I just like to describe the train of thought of the protagonist, as well as her physical reactions to the world around her to make sure the reader really gets into her shoes.

[Anonymous No.16808203]

>>16808148
>https://pastebin.com/i4JNKs6J

It was actually 12, bro. Smh.

[Anonymous No.16808213]

>>16808203
But it's 10, anon...

[Anonymous No.16808239]

>>16808213
oops I was including the raw text copy xD take my upvote!

[Anonymous No.16808338]

>>16807450
Tiresome dialogues. No line is fluent, literally every single verse of dialogue has some description

[Anonymous No.16808381]

How do I write a horror story that is actually scary?

[Anonymous No.16808550]

>>16808381
Do you want us to tell you every single thing? Can't you even wash your ass after pooping without help and practical and theoretical instructions?
>How do I write a horror story that is actually scary?
Start fucking reading horror stories. Read them every day. Short stories, books, watch horror movies, play video games with horror stories. Alan Wake is a nice vidya, an actual horror + thriller story.
Read, watch and play, and look for the things they are doing. Why are their stories interesting? Why are they scary? Is it tension? Characters? Mystery? The unknown? We fear what we don't know after all, right?
You will always be shit if you have to ask how to write a story. Research and try it by yourself, faggot. You are better than that.

[Anonymous No.16808566]

>>16808381
The only horror that scared me was disquieting horror that lingers. You should probably avoid putting the scares into the imagery, but use implications instead.

[Anonymous No.16808630]

>>16808381
Pick your favourite horror movie, and start writing the novelisation of it.
Unless its some King adaptation, or Hellraiser.

[Anonymous No.16808676]

>>16808550
Horror stories fucking suck. Short stories also fucking suck.

[Anonymous No.16808692]

>>16808381
>that is actually scary?
write a horror screenplay. books can't be scary. I'm not memeing.

[Anonymous No.16808709]

>>16808196
>I just like to describe the train of thought of the protagonist, as well as her physical reactions to the world around her to make sure the reader really gets into her shoes
This isn't always a good thing, anon. It's alright while writing but a lot of that will need to be cut during editing. Trust yourself to have conveyed what you wanted to without overexplaining. I used to have the same problem. Also, 2000 word scenes are still pretty long scenes.

[Anonymous No.16808754]

>>16808196
>physical reactions to the world around her to make sure the reader really gets into her shoes
The most boring shit I'm seeing in books. Instant drop.
I don't fucking care that Anna's legs feel like macarons. I don't care about overexplaining, about overcomplicating, about poetic descriptions of shit, it's boring.

[Anonymous No.16808772]

I'M FUCKING OUTLINING
AAA FUUUUUUUCK IT'S GOING TO BE GREAT BROS
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA THIS FUCKING IDEA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I'M THE BEST I'M THE BEEEEEST FUUUUUCK

[Anonymous No.16808923]

>>16808754
This is the what concerns me, how much of it is just personal preference and how much of it is objective?
>>16808709
I expect to trim it down a lot while editing.

[Anonymous No.16808983]

>>16808923
You'll have a much easier time if you train yourself out of bad habits. A lot of it is objective sorry.

[Anonymous No.16808991]

>>16808983
You're probably right. I don't know how to stop myself as of now. I just start typing and the words just come out like that.

[Anonymous No.16809010]

>>16808772
I thought the same until I realized that if my writing is ass not the greatest story in history story can my novel.

[Anonymous No.16809044]

>>16808983
>A lot of it is objective sorry
>too much explanation so boring!
People like this deserve to be shot. Worst than women

[Anonymous No.16809069]

>>16809044
not him but it's true, long explanations are fucking boring and readers don't care about that shit
why do you read books? to read that the sky is as beautiful and blue as X when this and that - and a long fucking 1000 thousand word story from when it was beautiful and blue - or a well paced fast book easy to follow? what do you enjoy more?
you see, only fucking autists enjoy the first thing, and 99% of readers are not fucking autists
you are not going to make this is if you describe every single shit

[Anonymous No.16809083]

>>16809069
Write what you want to write and what you personally enjoy. Trying to guess what the imaginary 99% of readers out there like will only result in guaranteed shit.

[Anonymous No.16809087]

>>16809069
I'm the anon who made the first query. I will defend my writing here a little and say that I go into detail when dealing with emotions and following the logic that leads to actions. At most I like to dedicate the environment only a few sentences, and always viewed through the lenses of the character, for example, being relived at seeing the night sky after spending hours underground.
I just want to make sure that my writing is criticized for the right reasons; if you still find this objectionable tell me so I can improve.

[Anonymous No.16809092]

>>16809083
>make fundamental errors because you personally enjoy them
books have to be enjoyable and entertaining
stop writing boring shit

[Anonymous No.16809105]

winds a wiser tripping through snow the water beams gracious to and fro. waters wiser lazer beams. looking out for gracious leaves. the wind picks up begins to soar. my light left on so sorry to and fro. water ripples ceasinglessly. beautiful graciousness, trip with me? the leaves and leaving the water is wising the ground is shaking to and fro. the water beams glittering shaking and bickering. my eyes see lights and dots and speckles.

[Anonymous No.16809114]

>>16809069
>muuh i'm so objective
>like harry potter is the best book evah!!!
99% readers probably deserve to be shot too. Autists are the true übermensch

>>16809092
>fundamental
>explaining things is a fundamental error when most of literature in history is dense as fuck
This is the state of our culture, everyone.

[Anonymous No.16809116]

Can miserable characters be entertaining, and likeable?

[Anonymous No.16809118]

marry go round time ticking, clicking. seldom delights in porrage. but butter beer and speckled spouts and candyland and ice cream crout. i love thee i need for thee i kneed thee bread for thee. my eyes see water my skin feels wind my ears hear leaves and leave a speckled grin. i still love thee oh so very much, will you take me out to lunch? munch!

[Anonymous No.16809119]

>>16809116
Define miserable.

[Anonymous No.16809123]

eyes glittering frosts littering snow sparkled glittering flithering slippering. the sky will be one with us tomorrow. the ground will shake and we shall burrow. till christmas time next year.

[Anonymous No.16809125]

>>16809119
A real grumpy fucker.
Has to grumble at everything, and keeps mostly to themselves.

[Anonymous No.16809132]

just smoke coffee and sigs bruhs...
just smoke coffee and cigs

[Anonymous No.16809131]

>>16809092
>books have to be enjoyable and entertaining
No, they don't.

[Anonymous No.16809138]

>>16809116
Sure. Raskolnikov was a pretty miserable man, and he was still relatively likeable. At least, I like him. Miserable people can also be pretty entertaining; I'd say most comedies have protagonists who are not exactly happy with their lot in life.

[Anonymous No.16809148]

>>16809125
of course. you either make bad things deliberately happen to them. not like, you know, awful stuff, but constant annoyances they have to deal with, parking tickets, barking dogs, not having enough change for the meter, lost registrations. or you bounce a happy character off them they get annoyed by

[Anonymous No.16809155]

>>16809131
Based

[Anonymous No.16809162]

>>16809044
I didn't say boring. You don't need to over explain. I get the picture. It reads like you have a word count to meet and you're just putting in the same sentence three times and phrased slightly different.

>deserve to be shot for saying something you don't like
so emotional, almost like you're the woman

[Anonymous No.16809197]

>>16809162
>>The most boring shit I'm seeing in books
>dindu
I'm not the anon who wrote the thing, faggot.

>implying that women want people to be shot
>no u XD
Worst than a woman, as I said.

[Anonymous No.16809233]

>>16809197
I think you're getting several people confused. Retard. I said you are emotional, try reading. Oh wait, this is /lit/

[Anonymous No.16809274]

>>16795223
Hey I have no opinion here but I sometimes switch tenses simply because it seems to work.

"the person looks at me, and I released a murmur"

that's not from my writing or anything but how doomed am I if I do this?
>>16795184
Friend, I just looked into your horror series the other day, and I am wondering if you have any tips for a writer who has been published for horror elsewhere but wants to publish multiple projects on Amazon?
>should I copyright (on my 86k word story I want to, but for some others is that even a big deal? I fear my content being stolen but I am not a greedy bastard for money, I just want to retain my own works as mine)

>how will I know when I am 100% done with my work? Did you hire an editor or something? How many drafts did you go through before completion?

>any tips on amazon publishing for fiction? Anything you wish you knew before starting?

[Anonymous No.16809294]

>>16808772
Anon, no! Stop before it's too late!

[Anonymous No.16809296]

>>16809125
I don't see a problem with that. Grumpy old grandpas, for example, are not uncommon characters.

[Anonymous No.16809301]

>>16809274
>the person looks at me, and I released a murmur
Is this a real example? Not sure "release a murmur" really works. As for the tense question, a lot of people will be put off by it and think that you are doing it because you don't know any better. Depends what your goals are but I can't imagine it sitting well if you wanted to trad publish

[Anonymous No.16809315]

prove to me you are real by writing me a piece of poetry

[Anonymous No.16809328]

>>16809315
poetry is an artifical shit
i fucking hate it

[Anonymous No.16809335]

>>16809233
You are the only one confused here, faggot. Being emotional is manly if it is against uncultured subhumans like you. Not worst than a woman, but worst than a fucking sheboon of the deepest jungles of niggerland. I will not tell you to read, because I am already impressed with the fact that a specimen like you is able of breathing without aid. What a waste of oxygen nonetheless. May God have mercy upon us, so He puts to an end the existence of such a degenerate and cleans the air of the most disgraceful presence I ever had the misfortune of interacting with. Holy Father deliver us from evil, amen.

[Anonymous No.16809338]

>>16809010
Pretty much this. I can write a lot. I can outline a nice plot, but my prose is garbage and my characters seem one dimensional half the time. I'm more interested in themes and ideas than people, but I know that makes for shit stories.

How do I get better? Just read more?

[Anonymous No.16809350]

>>16798902
My friend, we have something in common. I too make frequent use of 'flotsam' 'beasts' and my favorite, 'ethereal'
While I think you should write a short story and forget the lame pursuit of poetry, I genuinely liked it more than most of the stuff I see here.
I did not think you came off as 'trying to be intelligent' it's just that poetry is lame imo. If you incorporated your word choice proclivities into a neat little emo story, I would be into it. Make it about a man hunting pythons in the Florida Everglades, after sampling some Psilocybin cubensis and just see where your poetic style takes you! I will read your stuff if you put it up somewhere for free (cheapskate Jew here).

[Anonymous No.16809360]

>>16809335
>worst than
ESL detected. I'm not reading all of that btw.

[Anonymous No.16809367]

>>16809360
Nigger

[Anonymous No.16809410]

>>16809315
No migraine
Deadline close
Too lazy

[Anonymous No.16809412]

>>16809338
Just read more. Seems to be a fix all around here. I don't really know myself how to fix it yet, but I am currently trying to study up on writing in general, that might help me.

[Anonymous No.16809424]

>>16809315
>1 Sneed, to seed and fee
>It doesn't even matter how hard you seethe
>Keep that in mind, I designed this shitpost to make the trannies al cry
(Watch. Them. Cope.)
>Sneed is a powerful thing, watch it get posted as a tranny will swing
>From the ciel-ing, what a hilarious thing, trannies jannies and niggers are all the same thing
>...
>I SEETHED SO HARD, AND GOT SO FAR
>BUT IN THE END, IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER
>I TRIED TO COPE, I GOT THE ROPE; IN THE END, I'M A 45-PERCENTER

[Anonymous No.16809431]

>>16809424
SNEED

[Anonymous No.16809448]

>>16799396
>https://pastebin.com/bR2bg8Gp
Genuinely not bad at all. This main character seems like a psychotic NEET, and I would guess that you live in the UK? First sentence is very bold but it worked for me, although it may not for others. Some of the rhythm here is vaguely musical, and while I grew bored with the introduction of Derek, I was initially interested with how the postal worker interaction would go. I think more tension regarding being exposed as a porn viewer would strike a more.. idk, tangible note with modern readers (considering almost 100% of modern western men have seen porn).
Keep at it, fren.
>>16796384
Saying cringe in threads like these is funny but ultimately unhelpful to the writer, although I do agree that he should cool it with the emo factor. If he were describing something physical (instead of muh existence) then I feel as though we may latch on to the notion moreso, because the vague, abstract notion of 'my sad life is so dark' does not really imply a noise or specific visual representative.
>>16798418
Elaborate if you will.
>>16797778
Moderately curious as to what will happen next! This story being interesting to me personally will be contingent upon what the wider plot is, like, what is an artifact hunter and Paix?
>>16798418
Which symbols do you want to focus on? How can you illustrate those?

[Anonymous No.16809543]

>>16809448
>'my sad life is so dark'
>actually is about the mind of an adult emerging from a fetus inside of a woman who isn't his mother and about his resistance to impulses by overanalyzing them with concepts as an attempt to control them.
Not that hard to understand bro.

[Anonymous No.16809639]

>>16788714
Bravo anon. I just finished Arcade. At first I was confused how this book had so many high ratings despite some grammatical issues. It's because you actually wrote a really interesting story.

[Anonymous No.16809646]

>>16809315
rigged Drill
a new Mill
boring Still
hole you can't Fill
astounding Thrill
into the Nil

[Anonymous No.16810467]

is this where i get feedback on my screenplay? or should i go to reddit for that?

[Anonymous No.16810490]

New thread available:

>>16810449