Are /z/s the first fully oversocialized generation?

[Anonymous No.16772414]

/Zoomer/. Are we the first fully oversocialized generation? Can we do anything without outside approval? Was he right?

[Anonymous No.16772452]

>>16772414
Oversocializtion is a characteristic of individuals. I'd say we're the most socialized as a whole, but the fact that we're on here talking about le ebin ludite shows that we're a bit deviant.

Most of 4chan is oversocialized, with some exceptions. /lit/ being one of them.
People on here are still retarded though.

[Anonymous No.16772469]

4chan seems a lot less oversocialized than most of the cultural mainstream. But we should talk about how to assess this. People here don't accept the authority of the system or feel guilt at not accepting its values, but they're also passive towards its presence and have no real desire to fight back, which could be characteristic of oversocialization.

[Anonymous No.16772478]

>>16772414
Ted is starting to remind me of don Quixote. I read "oversocialization is the Boogeyman" as a flipped around version of "chivalry is the most important thing."

Basically, it's a vague concept which implies the average man is weak, and that society must be resisted. This idea turns into a neurotic obsession for some. Its an old idea. I don't see how he strays from it

[Anonymous No.16772480]

>>16772414
Yes he was right. Talk to any zoomer girl and see how adamantly they defend what society tells us is right and how distraught they become over heretical thought

[Anonymous No.16772483]

>>16772469
Part of it is that there's no effective way to fight back or create change in the system

[Anonymous No.16772487]

>>16772469
People here are oversocialized AF.
Make a mention that you like lolis and watch how people jump at you.
Wasn't that way before 2009

[Anonymous No.16772489]

>>16772478
idk dude have you ever talked to someone and their minds just drop out of their head as they become hysterical. people will break bonds over this. it's rather alarming. brainwashing is a better word.

[Anonymous No.16772498]

>>16772469
4chan is just Neverland. There is nothing radical or transgressive to be found here.

[Anonymous No.16772505]

>>16772478
Frankly I disagree, though I have yet to read Quixote; oversocialization is awful for a society, a society where you can only support the norm as you would either become a pariah or filled with short term guilt is no society to live in.

[Anonymous No.16772521]

>>16772498
Almost nothing is radical or transgressive in general anymore

[Anonymous No.16772528]

>>16772487
Moar

[Anonymous No.16772599]

>>16772528
go on 2chan. Tons of loli threads there. Russians don't give a fuck
Or better yet, onions. If you know what i mean

[Anonymous No.16772675]

>>16772478
>and that society must be resisted
It seems intended to convey that social systems are fundamentally flawed, and it's near impossible to always act in accordance with the system's values, so when a man inevitably fucks up he blames it on himself rather than the system. In other words, it's a battle between the man's will and the societal machine's will, and the man always loses. Contrast this with the normally socialized man, who accepts the system only out of necessity rather than something inherently valuable, and will play by its rules but probably feels no guilt in exploiting it. To Ted this is the natural human reaction to existing in a social system. However, this kind of thing is not new. Modern Leftism still is, but going by the definition, oversocialization has certainly existed throughout history, and it might not even need technology to exist at all. I've read the manifesto only recently, but I find it interesting how much more popular the term oversocialization is online when the notion of surrogate activities feels much more important in showing how our values have changed with the tech revolution.

[Anonymous No.16772720]

>>16772452
>Most of 4chan is oversocialized
I only hang out on /lit/, /his/, /ck/, and /pol/ but it does not seem to me like those who frequent this website are oversocialized in the slightest. I'd say the opposite is true. 4chan is more or less a nice Goldilocks zone where people are autistic and don't care about social norms but aren't liable to commit crimes. If you called someone a nigger on Twitter or Instagram you'd get purged instantly due to the overwhelming tide of common opinion favouring decorum and propriety. If your name was attached to your account you might even attract a few zealots who'll aim to punish you IRL via getting you fired or expelled. 4chan is a respite.
>>16772480
This is true. It is definitely much worse with Zoomer women.

[Anonymous No.16772740]

>>16772720
>but it does not seem to me like those who frequent this website are oversocialized in the slightest.
You're oversocialized.

The rest of what you said is true, but there are incorrect opinions on 4chan that you'll even get mobbed for. Group think is still extremely prevalent on this site. If you don't see it then you're part of it.

[Anonymous No.16772748]

>>16772720
>>16772740
Oh and /pol/ especially. Like reddit without upboats.

[Anonymous No.16772758]

>>16772740
Yeah but 4chan's status quo doesn't represent society's.

[Anonymous No.16772772]

>>16772758
Yeah it has its own morality. I prefer it over society's but it's still influenced by normalfag slave morality shit.
I.e too influenced by society
2006 4chan tho...

[Anonymous No.16772785]

>>16772740
>You're oversocialized
Considering I'm a misanthropic shut-in autist with no human contact outside of mummy I don't see how this could possibly be the case.
>there are incorrect opinions on 4chan that you'll even get mobbed for
I see this on /pol/ when the topic of racemixing comes up ever other thread.

[Anonymous No.16772794]

i wish i was over socialized. it must feel good being protected by a herd.

[Anonymous No.16772798]

>>16772794
I'd feel suffocated by all the social regulations and conventions that you MAY NOT transgress upon.

[Anonymous No.16772800]

>he thinks oversocialization means constantly interacting with others

[Anonymous No.16772801]

>>16772785
>Considering I'm a misanthropic shut-in autist with no human contact outside of mummy I don't see how this could possibly be the case.
you can be all those things and still be oversocialized
I bet /r9k/ is more socially retarded than you but hold views much more closer to that of the status quo
>I see this on /pol/ when the topic of racemixing comes up ever other thread.
It's mostly when they brand everything they don't like as degeneracy and fail to do any actual reading on philosophy and end up parroting retarded views they don't even understand
It's been shit since /pol/ harbor. 2016 elections were cool for the memes and the shia trolling but this one was an absolute nightmare
r*ddit morality

[Anonymous No.16772815]

>>16772798
but if you were properly oversocialized then you would embrace those values and would find peace in the conformity, right?

[Anonymous No.16772820]

>>16772815
You'd think so but I don't think the average norman is very happy, which is why they lean so hard into surrogate activities like Ted suggests. They feel anxious in their powerlessness, whereas we (or seemingly many people on 4chan) have resigned ourselves to it.

[Anonymous No.16772826]

>>16772414
Lol you retards are undersocialized

[Anonymous No.16772831]

>>16772826

[Anonymous No.16772851]

>>16772675
Good post but I have to disagree with your last point, I have seen many instances on this board for example where the mere mention of the phrase "surrogate activity" is used as justification for not bothering to engage in any recreational hobby or similar activity often touted in threads where the OP asks for other people to help him fix his life with the exception of reading (reading Ted of course). This might just be because, like with almost anyone memed on here, people are under the impression that he might just have the answers to everything. You might have a more nuanced understanding that you can share.

[Anonymous No.16772856]

>>16772414
oversocialization is based, just not when it's pro faggots.

[Anonymous No.16772867]

>>16772801
Socialization is ultimately just a function of being in a group, so you can be oversocialized to one group but not another. So like /r9k/ fags are definitely not oversocialzied within mainstream society but they are oversocialized within the whole incel-sphere of thinking which is sort of a closed group with its own distinct worldview.

[Anonymous No.16772983]

Lit is not oversocialised imo
Truly oversocialised people become hysterical once you even hint at slightly unorthodox ideas such as a correlation between race and iq
Not oversocialised people can at least hold a reasonable convo with you

[Anonymous No.16772991]

>>16772469
>Change the system
SPOOKED. Why would I destroy a church to build a new one? If the church truly displeases me, I'll tear it down and use the bricks to smash in the skulls of those trying to build a new.

[Anonymous No.16772993]

>>16772983
>Truly oversocialised people become hysterical once you even hint at slightly unorthodox ideas such as a correlation between race and iq
Yea this is what I mean. I don't think I've ever seen someone on lit get HYSTERICAL over something like this like an actually oversocialized person would.

[Anonymous No.16773020]

>>16772993
Well then you must have missed all of the Guenonfag threads

[Anonymous No.16773111]

>>16772469
You can't have socialization without individual identities. Your reputation and persona has to be on the line, so that it matters to you that you watch what you say and internalize that you are constantly being judged by an external audience. Anonymity prevents any of this from taking shape. Moreover the tone of 4chan, in contrast to a site like reddit, is one of cynicism and disillusionment. An oversocialized person is unable to question mainstream mores or values, because they cannot see outside of it. They are unable to admit they are unhappy, that they disagree with how things are, that they would like to opt out and not participate. This immediately flags them as deviants, creeps, nonconformists, buzzkills, or simply someone who is uncool and doesn't get with it. They are stuck in this collectivist, digital co-veillance (mutual surveillance) template .
Social media conditions you to engage in obsessive self-monitoring . It inhibits. Anonymity does the opposite: it disinhibits.

[Anonymous No.16773334]

>>16772414
everyone is oversocialized

[Anonymous No.16773447]

Doesnt oversocialized mean being too dependant on society, what it stands for and what it provides?

Why are you people pretending that defending society's values somehow is the deciding factor of oversocialization? Can you faggots walk into a forest and live there for a month with the simple provisions you could carry there yourself?

[Anonymous No.16773460]

>>16772487
Kill yourself

[Anonymous No.16773489]

It mostly depends on the gender un-ironically. Males either don't give a shit about the status quo or are straight up against it, females on the other hand worship the status quo because that's the only thing that gives them validation in life. Sure there are some pro-status-quo sōyboys and anti-status-quo women but those are mostly a minority especially the anti-status-quo women.
>>16772740
There are incorrect opinions on 4chan but you won't get banned if you say them. Sure, some sperg or other will call you a faggot and tell you to kill yourself but you can continue waste time with him, he can't ban you from social media, he can't get you fired, he's literally just reeeing.
The closest thing to correct opinion on 4chan is probably the freedom best and fuck censorship shtick but that's pretty much the shtick that got this site created.

[Anonymous No.16773547]

>>16772740
>>16772748
>>16772772
>>16772801
You are extending the word oversocialization to mean any kind of agreement, even tacit, between people.
4chan is one of the least socialized place. It isn't just about not caring about decorum or being able to say nigger. People give very little shit about their status thanks to anonymity and its effect on the "subcultures" of these boards. The propensity to troll, shill, etc only further breaks socialization processes.

[Anonymous No.16773571]

>>16772414
I'm a zoomer and saw this tiktok the other day which I think perfectly demonstated that this is true.

Basically there was this challenge (not very popular, it kind of came and went) involving people singing this song with the n word in it, but singing all the words except for the n word (along with other things).
Then I saw this other tiktok responding to the trend with a zoomer chick saying something like "OMG guys imagine I bet someone attempting this challenge accidentally said the n word and then deleted the video". She seemed genuinely concerned with the idea of someone saying the n word, on accident, in an empty bedroom on their own.
The need to get rid of the n word has moved past the idea that people shouldnt be racially vilified and has become just this forbidden thing, with its own negative moral value outside of any effects on any actual human.

In other words, in the mind of an oversocialized zoomer if a tree says the n word in the forest and theres no one there to hear it, it still makes a racist sound.

[Anonymous No.16773587]

>>16772720
>4chan is more or less a nice Goldilocks zone where people are autistic and don't care about social norms but aren't liable to commit crimes
This is a great description.

>If you called someone a nigger on Twitter or Instagram you'd get purged instantly due to the overwhelming tide of common opinion favouring decorum and propriety.
This is why I hate modern forums like reddit. Not that I can't be racist but the "BE NICE EVERYONE" attitude means your comments get removed so easily. It just makes everyone passive aggressive.

[Anonymous No.16773593]

>>16772478

I really don't see the connection. Ted is referring to the effect of media and technology on psychological development.

[Anonymous No.16773602]

>>16772414
"kaczynski, t"
Is it in the bibliography of an SEP article? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion

[Anonymous No.16773604]

>>16772469
It’s just because 4chan is anonymous.

[Anonymous No.16773612]

>>16773571
Funny how you call it the n word instead of saying nigger.

[Anonymous No.16773621]

>>16772851
>the mere mention of the phrase "surrogate activity" is used as justification for not bothering to engage in any recreational hobby or similar activity
I agree with Ted that they are distractions but distractions from what? I don't this subsistence living is more fulfilling. What is our ultimate goal?

Reading philosophy has just made my hobbies seem more hollow than they were before but I've nothing to replace them with.

[Anonymous No.16773624]

>>16772452
/lit/ is very oversocialised.

[Anonymous No.16773676]

>>16772414
Yeah it seems that way. I just don't really understand who's driving it this way or what's causing this.

Like in such an advanced economy I would've free association would mean personal freedom. Guess I was wrong

[Anonymous No.16773710]

>>16773676
>who's driving it this way
Now you're just begging for it.
>Guess I was wrong
You were correct, but the current socialization zeitgeist is against free association.

[Anonymous No.16773907]

>>16773710
>the current socialization zeitgeist is against free association.
Which is odd because it's supposedly a time of free expression but only within tightly constrained bounds.

In reality the expression is typically limited to aesthetics (look as wacky as you want (so, pink hair then)) or just consuming as many drugs as possible which no one cares about (unless it's no-no drugs like heroin because again you have to do in-group approved drugs like weed or ecstasy). Heroin is only okay if you want to LARP as a jazz player and intend to write a book about your no-doubt harrowing experience later.

[Anonymous No.16774012]

>>16772851
That really has to be people misunderstanding the aim of the manifesto and using it as a springboard for calling other people slaves. The purpose was never to insult leftists or conservatives or academics, but to point out that the societal institutions and trends we accept as normal are both not normal and quite new, and also appear to be working against the greater good. Like with oversocialization, surrogate activities aren't to be avoided, but rather understood as a symptom of tech slavery, and in an ideal world no one would have surrogate activities since the natural process of subsistence satisfies all their needs.

It's important to distinguish though between a surrogate activity and a hobby, or pastime. People have enjoyed hobbies throughout history, but a surrogate activity is more than a hobbyーit's a purpose for existence. Whether you accept Ted's theory or not, this observation is true: We live for our hobbies. A lot can be dissected from this related to the death of religion and the atomization of individuals. It's an important idea, but just going around accusing people of participating in surrogate activities is retarded, partly since we all unavoidably do it now anyways.

[Anonymous No.16774014]

>>16772414
>Are we the first fully oversocialized generation?
That's Baby Boomers.

[Anonymous No.16774025]

>>16773447
Did you read the book?

[Anonymous No.16774031]

i just finished reading his manifesto. I agreed with almost everything but use of violence to achieve your goals. Hw can he justify taking an innocent life to disrupt the economic society?

[Anonymous No.16774034]

Imagine thinking 4chan as a whole isn't as conformist as any other social media site. Do you think Guenonian Traditionalists are a more accurate representations of the site's populace over /v/edditors and Trump voters?

[Anonymous No.16774035]

>>16774034
So many people here misunderstanding what the term is supposed to mean

[Anonymous No.16774041]

>>16774031
>I agreed with almost everything but use of violence to achieve your goals. Hw can he justify taking an innocent life to disrupt the economic society?
Because he's not a moralist.

[Anonymous No.16774163]

>>16772414
"oversocialized" in a bastardization of what socializing is supposed to be (i.e. social media) where everyone knows who's dating who, who's on what and everything in-between that happens to be none of your business.

[Anonymous No.16774171]

>>16774163
it's the microwave generation

[Anonymous No.16774177]

>>16774025
yes.

[Anonymous No.16774179]

>>16773460
T. Oversocialized

[Anonymous No.16774192]

>>16772798
>that you MAY NOT transgress upon
lmao beta af

[Anonymous No.16774193]

>>16773571
This is definitely true. I’ve seen Tiktoks and comments on Tiktoks of people talking about how even thinking the word is a bad thing. Another video by a black girl saying “I know white people say/think “nigga” when they’re listening to this song”. It’s absurd how a slur can have such a mythical, demonic status attached to it and even thinking it is a crime against human decency.

[Anonymous No.16774213]

>>16772489
kek, good visualization, I think there's gonna be a bit of a pushback with gen z, from what I've observed of the world as of yet it seems most things are a pendulum and the following gen or two will be more conservative, independent and resilient. Which may very well be a good thing, seeing as the danger zone being trod right now for privacy, security and freedoms is probably at it's historical ath.
>t. 2001 zoomzoom

[Anonymous No.16774228]

>>16774213
>seeing as the danger zone being trod right now for privacy, security and freedoms is probably at it's historical ath.
I had a debate with a friend who advocated for "90% free speech" as they called it because they felt that people were too stupid to decide things for themselves so the state should censor things to stop a repeat of Nazi Germany and the like. They probably view themselves as progressive and free-thinking at the same time.

[Anonymous No.16774235]

>>16772414
Zoomers just suffer from internet addiction. Limit childhood use of the internet, and abolish social media, and most of the neuroses prevalent in society today would fade. Humans aren't equipped to deal with being part of a global community, it isn't healthy.

[Anonymous No.16774238]

>>16774228
People like your friend there sound like they would be the biggest enemies to freedom.
Would probably be accusing people of witchcraft in the 1600s

[Anonymous No.16774239]

>>16774213
>conservative, independent and resilient
these are just abstract word with which you paint your visions of society, you must have no concrete idea of what that even means in practice. you're adhering to the hollywoodization of politics, people can enjoy it like a movie and associate these "symbols" (e.g. "resilient", "independent") to the "characters" (political figures/countries).
read plato haha

[Anonymous No.16774253]

>>16774235
based and truthpilled

[Anonymous No.16774269]

>>16774228
>people were too stupid to decide things for themselves so the state should censor things to stop a repeat of Nazi Germany and the like.
That was exactly what nazi Germany thought

[Anonymous No.16774304]

>>16774228
>>16774238
Whenever I hear people talk about free speech they always contradict it by believing in some variant of hate speech that nullifies the concept. It pisses me off that people fail to realise that hate speech is a buffer for their idea of "free speech", if you can't say nigger, odds are you can't say something else
http://www.paulgraham.com/conformism.html one of my favorite short essays and a fun read
>>16774239
>conservative, independent and resilient
these are just abstract word with which you paint your visions of society, you must have no concrete idea of what that even means in practice.
What would you have me use to explain my belief on what future generations will be like? I'm using those words because they best encompass the memetics of what I'm trying to convey
>read plato haha
Got a recommended introductory text?

[Anonymous No.16774309]

when you have control of what people are exposed to, and when you know they will routinely be exposed to it, you can create a "matrix" for everyone. a matrix of information, a matrix of entertainment. and these matrixes are controlled by AIs (symbol: absolute fucking superintelligences) that are engineered to give you whatever will keep your attention for the longest amount of time.
now could you imagine the effects of routinely exposure to something that sucks your attention with ridiculous efficacy, on the grand majority of first world countries' populations?
that's what's happening.
everyone is spending 3 or more hours completely not thinking and being fed a bunch of mental sugar.

[Anonymous No.16774314]

>>16774213
>I think there's gonna be a bit of a pushback with gen z
Unfortunately I doubt it. Even gen z “conservatives” are content to just drift along with it because they have no power anyways.

[Anonymous No.16774317]

>>16772498
Very weird take. Go outside and quote basically any 4chan post and people will think you're a lunatic.

[Anonymous No.16774318]

>>16774304
pic related >>16774304

[Anonymous No.16774324]

>>16774318
>>16774304
however, you could just start with the republic, I think you'd like that

[Anonymous No.16774338]

>>16773547
Exactly this. Being part of a social group doesn't make you over socialized. Plenty of people in everyday life who interact with mainstream pop culture and have stable lives aren't over socialized. The issue is a rising prevalence of over socialization in a) academia and b) people who would've been well-adjusted in earlier generations.

[Anonymous No.16774363]

>>16772720
>and /pol/
You need to go back.

[Anonymous No.16774364]

>>16774012
I certainly agree with what you're saying. There's a lot of people here who are quick to jump the gun or to ascertain superiority over other posters in one way or another and this likely leads to such outbursts. I wouldn't want to claim I know these people or what they do with their time and there is some truth to it but very few people I feel are genuinely committed to the point of following through with Ted's idea that the only thing that ultimately matters is the destruction of the techno-industrial system. I know of one on this board but he's been pushing his stuff for 5 years allegedly and has fairly idiosyncratic ideas.
Nevertheless, glad to see someone level-headed in the general turbulence of chan shitposting.

[Anonymous No.16774367]

>>16774309
worst of all, we are all technically in charge and we're responsible for adhering to these things, but they play with your "below" (in the context of as above, so below; pic related), the below being the big biological system which is your body, the "spaceship of the consciousness". humans are not historically great at dealing with the pitfalls of the below, and it requires a lot of dedication to master disciplinary action. everyone is digging themselves further down, so to say.

[Anonymous No.16774376]

>>16774367
forgot pic

[Anonymous No.16774413]

>>16774304
>What would you have me use to explain my belief on what future generations will be like? I'm using those words because they best encompass the memetics of what I'm trying to convey
I think you are explaining yourself correctly, but have a superficial view of the world. What could "resilient" mean in modern society? What does "independent" mean to you? These are just words which paint a vivid picture, but what does a "independent" society do that separates it from the rest?

[Anonymous No.16774421]

"Oversocialization" as a concept is just Ted K not being willing to come to terms with the fact that the majority of people are very stupid and easily manipulated. "It must be someone else's fault."

[Anonymous No.16774425]

>>16774413
>>16774304
I'm not trying to attack you or anything btw, I've just been there too, you know?

[Anonymous No.16774471]

>>16774367
which is the main study of religion, if anyone is following my ramblings.

[Anonymous No.16774477]

>>16774304
Great essay, thanks for posting.

[Anonymous No.16774532]

>>16774421
and should we not strive to advance our species' weak spot of manipulability rather than play on it every opportunity we get? Is that not the practice of social media moguls? We're applying casino tactics which play on manipulability and "addiction" to social media, video games, everything.

[Anonymous No.16774538]

>>16774421
If people are stupid and easily manipulated then it is indeed someone else's fault.

[Anonymous No.16774542]

>>16774532
It's either humans are all evil by nature and play on other people's weakness every opportunity we get or someone wants this to be the main course.

[Anonymous No.16774550]

>>16774532
Video games, social media and all of those other things don't matter until the human species is capable of not just blindly believe whatever they are told by the people who feed them scraps from the table, which will never happen because nothing has ever created an evolutionary pressure where high IQ was the optimal strategy.

>>16774538
Yes, their own, for being stupid.

[Anonymous No.16774581]

>>16773907
>it's supposedly
There is a world of difference between what the current social norms actually are and what they proclaim themselves to be.
Peasants in 19th century enjoyed more "free speech" in practice than citizens of cosmopolitan big cities today. I guess you'd get into trouble for being a faggot or trashing Jesus Christ. Indeed people can now be proud gaytheist while complying with the socially expected opinions on a million subjects.

>limited to aesthetics (look as wacky as you want)
To be fair, this was historically the norm outside work related aesthetics (lawyers, priests, etc). The idea of most men wearing formal and dull dry cleaned suits is a mid-20th century anomaly. For most of history the mass of the people had disjointed looks because cloth was comparatively much more expensive. Those that could afford it certainly looked wacky, and I'd argue more than what is done today, especially for men.

>>16774338
Academia has always been a nest of social cowardice and conformism. If any difference has been introduced, it lies in the fact that academia was the ultra conservative segment of society from their inception around the 12th century up to 1950 then became the ultra "progressive" segment of society. It made the conformism even worse because the progress crowd is typically oversocialized, but the trend was already there.
Just read 17th century French authors raging against the Sorbonnards, or Schopenhauer's piece on University Philosophy. You'd think they are from a 2020 Anglo campus, aside from not praising negroes and socialism. The same fear of looking ridiculous to their "peers", the habit of compliance from having administrators above you, the very restricted direct audience making you dependent on the goodwill of a few, the emphasis on commonality (scientific community), the petty bourgeois terror of appearing lower class, the disdain for people not affiliated to one of their guilds (the "uneducated") no matter their information or natural intellect.
t. stuck in academia

[Anonymous No.16774588]

>>16774550
>Video games, social media and all of those other things don't matter until the human species is capable of not just blindly believe whatever they are told by the people who feed them scraps from the table
these people feeding them scraps are fully aware they are feeding them poison
so until we reach that point, we'll just keep willfully digging ourselves into deeper holes to cause the effect of taking one step forward and two steps back on humanity.
truly some crabs in a bucket type of shit if you ask me.

[Anonymous No.16774593]

>>16774550
>Yes, their own, for being stupid.
That's not always something you can help, especially if you have all of society fighting against you. Society shouldn't be structured in a way that takes advantage of this.

[Anonymous No.16774594]

>>16772414
What the fuck does oversocialized even mean?

[Anonymous No.16774601]

>>16774594
add "over" to:
>Psychologists use the term “socialization” to designate the process by which children are trained to think and act as society demands. A person is said to be well socialized if he believes in and obeys the moral code of his society and fits in well as a functioning part of that society.

[Anonymous No.16774604]

>>16774594
it's an ersatz of the concept of spectacle applied to society

[Anonymous No.16774610]

>>16774604
fantastic explanation, sir

[Anonymous No.16774612]

>>16774593
>Society shouldn't be structured in a way that takes advantage of this.
Society literally CANNOT be structured in any other way. The very BASIS of civilization is that the smart and strong protect the stupid and weak from themselves and the natural world in return for being exploited heavily. That's immutable law. Even when you call it communism or socialism or humanism, it all boils down to this. The only difference is whether you have control of the stupid and weak or your enemy does.

[Anonymous No.16774628]

>>16774612
But exploited for what purpose? That's what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.16774634]

>>16774610
are you being ironic? I know I was a bit obtuse but Ted mostly regurgitate other concepts and is a lot easier to understand if you are familiar with thinkers such as Debord or Ellul

[Anonymous No.16774648]

>>16774634
I meant it.

[Anonymous No.16774668]

>>16774628
For whatever purpose they need. Usually to prevent the people on top from having to do too much work. Often for will-to-power projects that even today we praise. See: the pyramids.
Civilization IS slavery, but it can be nothing else. Even if we go back all the way to primal times, it is simply a return to matriarchal longhouses and tribes where even your current meager freedoms do not exist.

[Anonymous No.16774685]

>>16774668
So how were you saying this is their fault? I'm not sure I follow you. This seems to be a common liberal conception. That the way things are is immutable and it's your fault that you're stuck in it.

[Anonymous No.16774696]

>>16774685
To add to this, it's like you take both ends of the field to protect liberalism from criticism. For anyone who is adversely affected by it, it's their fault. But it's also something that cannot be changed, so you must submit to it.

[Anonymous No.16774702]

>>16774648
you're welcome then

[Anonymous No.16774719]

>>16774668
by now, there's no going back. is that what you're saying?
you're implying there is absolutely no way humans can work for one grand cause, now that we have world-wide connection through the internet?
I think it's possible, but we as a species would have to be exposed to "positive propaganda", so to say. Play on people's manipulability and manipulate them in the right direction, rather than what is done now, which is manipulate them into digging themselves in a straight line to their own personal hell.
I believe this is what religion wanted to achieve.

[Anonymous No.16774723]

>>16774696
>>16774685
I'm not defending liberalism, I'm defending the very conception of human organization itself. Whether you call it liberalism, communism, capitalism, monarchy, or whatever, it it largely the exact same thing. The only meaningful difference is the myths that are told to the proles to keep them in line.
And no, I frankly don't give a shit what happens to the proles, because I've spent enough time among them to know they are no great moral population. They are just as cruel, just as petty, and just as willing to destroy everything around them for almost no reason, they just aren't allowed to.

[Anonymous No.16774732]

>>16774604
That's pretty much how it feels.

[Anonymous No.16774740]

>>16774723
>And no, I frankly don't give a shit what happens to the proles, because I've spent enough time among them to know they are no great moral population. They are just as cruel, just as petty, and just as willing to destroy everything around them for almost no reason, they just aren't allowed to.
and is this not caused by the world they are put into? do you think they are born like this? is your environment not responsible for this?
so technically, it would be possible to do the inverse, no? set them up to be "Übermensch" rather than hellspawns

[Anonymous No.16774751]

>>16774740
or instead of ubermensch, at least make them moral sheep. china's good-boy-point system is the modern take on this issue. I think it will be interesting to see the effects it has.

[Anonymous No.16774753]

>>16774723
Your brain is tainted by liberalism to the point that you equate it with human society in toto.
>>16774740
It's like I was saying. "There's nothing you can do about it and it's your fault." That's the logic of liberalism that he is applying. It can't be any other way for him.

[Anonymous No.16774767]

>>16774751
The concept of social credit is already being applied in the west, but by corporations and financial institutions rather than the government. If you advocate the wrong ideas you are deplatformed, have your bank accounts cancelled, etc.

[Anonymous No.16774774]

>>16774740
>>16774753
>>16774751
You people are coming from a "man as pure angel, tainted by the material world" framework, and until you shake that you will be unsalvageable.
You cannot create a society of all ubermensch because ubermensch desire to rule, not to be ruled, and cannot cooperate. And they already are "moral sheep," just your morals are different from our current common conception.

[Anonymous No.16774784]

>>16774774
>You people are coming from a "man as pure angel, tainted by the material world" framework, and until you shake that you will be unsalvageable.
I am not. I believe all humans are innately evil.

[Anonymous No.16774785]

>>16774774
I don't think there's anything you can do to shake off my perception that animals evolve based on their environment/surroundings, I'm sorry.

[Anonymous No.16774790]

If an individual is already oversocialized should it be pushed further in hopes they find themselves among a fringe / outlier group that actually opens their eyes to some things?

Is that even a possibility for someone past a certain age?

[Anonymous No.16774810]

>>16774785
>I don't think there's anything you can do to shake off my perception that animals evolve based on their environment/surroundings
Yes, and the environment/surroundings select for cruelty, both in nature and civilization. If you dislike this you could attempt to find a small island with no predators like the quokka live on, but man has already evolved for cruelty, so it is more likely they will kill themselves before they evolve to suit the environment.

[Anonymous No.16774818]

>>16774031
t. retard

[Anonymous No.16774836]

If you buy Ted's books do you get put on a list?

[Anonymous No.16774850]

>>16774810
Ok, I see what you're saying. The metaphorical amoral, egoist chad who gets away unscathed and under the radar is the one who rises in society and sets a role model because of his high likeability and so on and so forth.
I recommend you Plato's Republic, I think you'd like that. I'm open to any suggestions you might have

[Anonymous No.16774852]

>>16773621
>What is our ultimate goal?
Doing psychedelic drugs, meeting your guardian angel, attaining ataraxia, not necessarily in this order.
At least to me, it seems that purely material activities are just a hurdle/distraction, and spirituality (not of the organized religion meme kind, although organized religion can do a lot of good, and does have its reason to be—I mean at an individual level) is the true endgame of humanity. https://youtu.be/jCg8ET1h4YA

[Anonymous No.16774856]

>>16774850
Read Machiavelli, but don't stop at the Prince. Read his entire canon.

[Anonymous No.16774863]

>>16774856
ah! I've read 48 laws which is similar in a way, I'll give Machiavelli a go

[Anonymous No.16774865]

>be me
>le born in le wrong generation
>misunderstood genius
>hate everyone who has not shared my unique experience
>but I want them to be impressed by me
>tfw

[Anonymous No.16774875]

>>16774863
Machiavelli gets a lot of shit because people call him cruel because he plainly and frankly lays out how power works in The Prince, but the rest of his of canon involves how to use power for good, even if power itself is not inherently good.

[Anonymous No.16774886]

>>16774836
You only get put on a list if you send him fanmail. If you buy his books the feds get money, not him.

[Anonymous No.16774918]

>>16774324
I'll make an effort to check it out
>>16774413
>>16774425
I think I follow you now, yeah I'm probably in my head too much of the time and those words are flavored to how I perceive them. When I think of "conservative" it's in the literal sense moreso than the traditional sense, I think modern society should make a conscious effort to hit the brakes on what they aren't content with, such as intrusion of privacy through surveillance, forced thought through social groups, expanding state control / dependence. With that in mind I believe the next gen will be more resilient to things they don't want, they will see people currently passive about these issues and how nothing's being done, realizing how parasitic and debilitating to ones own interests groupthink and the like can be.
I'm not sure if you're the same anon I was responding to initially, but what helped you to stop having superficial views?

[Anonymous No.16775017]

>>16774594
Hivemind basically

[Anonymous No.16775164]

>>16772414
>Can we do anything without outside approval?
We can but if its anything meaningful there will be Consequences. They could be social, financial or physical. It depends how far you deviated from "society's demands." Some of us are sheep sure but others are captive. Able to think but unwilling to publicly express there true opinions. Is that difference meaningful IDK.