Why has nobody, in more or less two millenia of Christian history, responded satisfyingly to the problem of evil?

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Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:17:56 2020 No.16744452 [Reply] [Original]

Why has nobody, in more or less two millenia of Christian history, responded satisfyingly to the problem of evil?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:23:27 2020 No.16744485 >>16744452 Evil exists cuz men get bored. Solved

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:24:44 2020 No.16744492 Evil only means "things I disagree with."

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:25:05 2020 No.16744494

Whitehead has:

God bestows the initial subjective aim for an actual entity as a lure for its concresence and the experiential intensity it evokes. It is God’s purpose to enjoy the experiential intensities provoked.

God is not omnipotent as actual entities and their societies have their own teleology.
God is not omniscient because the future does not yet exist because novelty emerges from actualities via their subjective aim and the infinity of eternal objects.
God is not omnibenevolent because morality is subordinate to aesthetic appreciation which is God’s desire.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:26:35 2020 No.16744500 >>16744492 You're confusing it with fascism

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:27:11 2020 No.16744504 >>16744500 I am going to kill you. If you disagree with my choice, you're a fascist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:27:28 2020 No.16744506 Nietzsche responded satisfyingly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:28:57 2020 No.16744522 File: 387 KB, 1052x1312, 1516615668899.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16744452 Oh but there was one guy...

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:29:32 2020 No.16744526 This story was all the more grueling for me because she kind of looks like my mom when she was younger

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:29:48 2020 No.16744530 >>16744504 and if he's a fascist then he deserves to die! it's like we're back to germanic trial by ordeal, if antifa burns down your business and you don't resist you weren't fascist, if you do resist and then you were a fascist and deserved it

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:30:32 2020 No.16744534 >>16744530 based

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:31:02 2020 No.16744537 >>16744506 This. Embrace evil.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:31:02 2020 No.16744538 >>16744526 yeah same

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:31:09 2020 No.16744540
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>>16744452
>She was known to be popular and good looking, which made some of her classmates envious.
>However, she was looked down upon by the "gangster-like" teenagers since she refrained from smoking, drinking alcohol and drug usage. Hiroshi Miyano (now Hiroshi Yokoyama), a known school bully with connections to the Yakuza, had a crush on Furuta but she turned him down since she was not looking for a relationship. With the exception of Furuta, nobody dared to oppose Miyano due to his Yakuza connections.

tfw she was murdered for being virturous

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:31:54 2020 No.16744544 >>16744504 Fascism is one of the few exceptions as far as bad opinions go that requires a bullet in the head, unfortunately.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:32:56 2020 No.16744553 >>16744452 Read Carl Jung

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:33:13 2020 No.16744555 >>16744544 luckily we have a committee of white guys with dreads who will determine who is a fascist or not

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:33:38 2020 No.16744560 >>16744540 Damn, if she was a practicing Catholic she would almost definitely be canonized by the Pope

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:35:19 2020 No.16744568 fascism is great and if you disagree you're evil

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:36:45 2020 No.16744587 >>16744540 fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:38:52 2020 No.16744606 >>16744560 the commie pope doesn't care about virtue he cares about scoring woke points with rich american liberals

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:41:46 2020 No.16744627 >>16744540 >this is a 10/10 in japland

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:42:10 2020 No.16744629 >>16744606 the church still loves to canonize people who died brutally and were virtuous, I think one of the recently canonized saints was a young mexican boy who had his hands and feet cut off

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:43:06 2020 No.16744643 >>16744452 Somebody post THAT soijak.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:43:15 2020 No.16744645 >>16744537 You don't really think this was Nietzsche's message? Please tell me it ain't so. What do you think 'Beyond' means?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:44:45 2020 No.16744656 >>16744452 St. Augustine did in book 2 of the City of God Against the Pagans. Now commit self millstone.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:46:02 2020 No.16744670 >>16744494 this sounds exactly like what some lady on youtube who had a NDE says

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:48:20 2020 No.16744684 >>16744645 >What do you think 'Beyond' means? It means disregarding slave morality and becoming yourself, which is both good and evil. Plenty of his writing embraces evil, he was a self-proclaimed immoralist after all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:48:45 2020 No.16744688 >>16744670 NDEs are so diverse and hard to reconcile that I have trouble believing they could be representative of any one truth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:54:35 2020 No.16744739 >>16744688 I feel like they are all we have that would serve as any sort of evidence of what happens after death even with all the flaws just interesting that this idea is repeated by someone who I doubt has ever heard of Whitehead

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 11:54:39 2020 No.16744740

The only plausible explanation for the apparent fine-tuning of the universe for the existence of life is that a moral agent deemed it the right thing to do.

Let’s start with the assumption that life— intelligent life in particular— is of great objective value. Lust, aggression, altruism and benevolence are rooted in our nature because of the long process of evolution by natural selection — it is the reason we are the beings we are. It may be possible to create intelligent life by some other means, but it would not be us.

My suggestion (paraphrasing Keith Ward) is that God designed the universe to produce intelligent life, but a foreseen, regretted yet inevitable consequence is the existence of pain. Suffering is an unwelcome consequence of the pursuit of a good purpose. God could not achieve exactly the same purposes without creatures suffering, because no purpose could be exactly the same if it was in a possible world markedly different from this one. In other words, an omnipotent God could not have created better laws or a better universe with us in it.

Why doesn’t God interfere now that we’re here to reduce suffering? This question supposes that we are currently outside of the processes that made us what we are. I have already argued that human beings would not be human beings were it not for universal order and natural selection. If we assume human beings are of objective value today and in the past, why not in the future? Pre-human apes were intelligent and surely capable of empathy and benevolence. God did not intervene then for the same reason he does not intervene now and will not intervene in the future. The statement “God could not have created better laws or a better universe with us in it” is true at any point in time. Creatures are always of intrinsic value.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:00:00 2020 No.16744780 >>16744485 >>16744492 >>16744494 >>16744506 >>16744522 >>16744553 >>16744656 >>16744740 Not a refutation. Plantinga gets closest but even he has to resort to an original sin cope.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:01:08 2020 No.16744791 >>16744780 yeah yeah, "If I don't like it, it's not valid", we get it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:02:26 2020 No.16744803 >>16744452 Who is Schelling? Who is Heidegger?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:03:58 2020 No.16744817 >>16744540 2 nukes wasnt enough

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:04:31 2020 No.16744823

>>16744688
I feel like the majority of them are the same, usually just with a coat of paint of whatever that person believes. So if they were christian it goes the same way as an atheist except they see jesus instead of maybe a loved one. In the west they are told "it's not your time, there's still much for you to do" In the east when they have an NDE they are told "it's not your time it was a bureaucracy error, your name's not on the list". Which shows the difference between cultures of individualism vs ones of collectivism. The core of the NDE seems to always be the same with a different way of conveying that information based on their beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:06:38 2020 No.16744838 >>16744684 No, he embraced virility, not evil. Americans should be banned from reading philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:07:49 2020 No.16744849 File: 10 KB, 276x182, 1538605614143.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16744540 >Thanks for saving me anon. I almost got kidnapped by those bullies if it weren't for you!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:08:16 2020 No.16744858 >>16744494 Yeah, the more intelligent a person is the more they enjoy dark things like dark humor God is the most intelligent and life is to god's taste but not to ours.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:08:24 2020 No.16744859 >>16744838 >he embraced virility, not evil. It's the same shit, dude. The latter word is just what slave moralists call it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:10:20 2020 No.16744875 >>16744780 Schopenhauer solved the problem of evil in On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason and On the Basis of Morality but he didn't believe in your kike on a stick so I guess that disqualifies him in advance

>>	Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 Mon Nov 9 12:11:31 2020 No.16744884 They have it’s just not satisfying to you or to humans in general because god isn’t bound to human Conceptions of good and evil.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:12:14 2020 No.16744888 >>16744452 >Why has nobody, in more or less two millenia of Christian history, responded satisfyingly to the problem of evil? Because they need evil to sustain their confidence game.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:12:46 2020 No.16744893

>>16744858
>Yeah, the more intelligent a person is the more they enjoy dark things like dark humor
I dont necessarily agree with this assertation. I have known some incredibly intelligent individuals who were also pretty reserved or even sanctimonious when it came to what they find funny.

>>	Jesus Mon Nov 9 12:13:14 2020 No.16744895 >>16744452 ask scientists. ministry of good and evil.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:15:23 2020 No.16744911 So far no cohesive answer itt. Rather disappointing I must say.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:16:02 2020 No.16744916

>>16744823
Are you sure about this? I admittedly have only watched about three or four long NDE reports and read about half a dozen more so I don't really know what I'm talking about, it appears to me that NDEs do not have any overarching organization and that the only recurring element is that the person is convinced to "go back".
But contrast something like Amy Call's experience to Dolores Cannon's videos, their contents are not the same at all. Can the true substance of the afterlife really be grasped by NDEs?
There's also the somewhat misleading or almost deceptive aspect of this "you have to go back" thing that bothers me but I can't really bring it up anywhere since it's off-topic on here and /x/ is garbage.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:16:39 2020 No.16744924

>>16744452
Is your professor or drill instructor evil because he grills you, tests you and generally makes your life living hell? The earth is not meant to be paradise so ofcourse it has evil in it, on Judement day all the wrongdoers will get their punishment and people who believed in god and did good shall be rewarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:16:42 2020 No.16744925 >>16744893 I'm just going on what I read https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jan/29/dark-humour-high-intelligence-study

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:17:52 2020 No.16744937 >>16744924 >on Judement day all the wrongdoers will get their punishment Soon™

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:19:17 2020 No.16744949 >finally start to accept the possibility that the eternal recurrence is literally true >remember >>16744452 pic related >the greatest weight crushes me again

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:19:26 2020 No.16744952

>>16744924
So God is a drill instructor?
Why is God so vindictive and vengeful in the OT? Contrast Job to the gospels, it's like light and day, why the sudden change in behavior?
People often say that Christianity is just flavored platonism, or even that it's entirely compatible with neoplatonist teachings, but I don't see it at all. How do you link the OT God to Plato's ideal of truth, justice and beauty? Never mind to the One

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:19:53 2020 No.16744955

>>16744740
I would also say in addition, the problem is greatly lessened when one adopt an idealist metaphysic. If one abandons any notion of separateness from God, we no longer have to think about suffering in terms of something God lets happen to others. Suffering becomes something he lets happen to himself and affirms as part of his life.

In the film Arrival (based on Story of Your Life by Ted Chiang, though I haven’t read it) aliens land on Earth and Amy Adams’ character, Louise, is tasked with translating their language. [spoiler alert] As she becomes more fluent, the language “rewires” her brain and allows her to see the future – her future. By seeing the future, or rather, actually living in the future and the past simultaneously, she is able to understand the aliens, quell rising international tensions and bring humanity together. But she also has a child who dies who dies of cancer at a young age. The film asks, if you could see the path ahead, would you take it? In the end, Louise embarks on a relationship that she knows will end in tragedy and pain. One interpretation is that she sacrificed her happiness for the good of the world. Another is that she simply could not decide otherwise and that her free will was an illusion. But I think a better interpretation is that she simply affirmed her life on a motivational level – this is how I understood her choice. And watching the film, I felt admiration for the character, even if it might be difficult to justify total affirmation according to an act-based or end-based theory. It is plausible to me that the more good a person is, the greater the suffering they might affirm. My suggestion is that a maximally-perfect and good being is also maximally-affirming.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:20:03 2020 No.16744957 its easy >why is that evil? gaytheists literally cannot cope themselves into any convincing argument for why something is actually evil

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:20:06 2020 No.16744958

>>16744911
because there can be no satisfying answer, christianity backed itself into a corner with omnibenevolence
the only response christians have is to try to gaslight you by saying evil doesn't really exist, this is how bad the problem of evil is to the core of their belief... outright delusion

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:21:16 2020 No.16744965

>>16744916
I think if NDEs are real there are also a shit ton of fakes going around

But most I've read follow the same structure
>death
>white pinprick of light
>head towards it
>it gets bigger
>enter it
>gain a full understanding of everything
>meet with dead relatives/jesus/some other significant figure
>life review is shown
>there's a wall or barrier which they're told they can't go beyond yet
>told it's not their time
>wake up

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:21:54 2020 No.16744966

>>16744452
1. We live in a transitory, impermanent world. Nothing that we do here that isn't tied to our salvation matters, the next life is the real one
2. God gave us free will to either follow his word and teachings or not. It wouldn't be free will if people who chose to be evil were not capable of committing evil deeds. Of course, when judgement day comes this will be weighted against the evil-doers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:22:41 2020 No.16744976 File: 327 KB, 461x350, sonic_the_hedgehog_3___promo___sonic_3_and_genesis_by_paperbandicoot_ddsl578-350t.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] suzanne capper in the UK is worse than this. you are all just faggots obsessed with muh japan

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:26:07 2020 No.16745004 >>16744924 lame >>16744957 insipid >>16744966 puerile

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:26:18 2020 No.16745008 >>16744684 He was an amoralist, not immoralist pseud

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:26:44 2020 No.16745014 >g-guys, the judgement day is totally happening, believe me!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:27:41 2020 No.16745027 >>16745014 The problem of evil only exists if you believe in God, which means you believe in judgement day by extension. If you don't believe in God then the problem of evil doesn't exist either.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:27:44 2020 No.16745028 >>16744952 >Job Drill Instructors are harder good soliders becaus they can take it. and it says in the hadith that the more God loves someone the harder he tests them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:28:40 2020 No.16745033 >>16745004 tell me what makes something evil

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:28:51 2020 No.16745037 >>16745028 lol literally divinized masochism. pathetic

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:29:37 2020 No.16745043 >>16745014 It's better to believe in Judgement Day, imagine if all the psychos who kicked the bucket get eternal rest. Makes me sick !

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:30:38 2020 No.16745050

>>16744965
>there are also a shit ton of fakes going around
I don't know, Call's seemed very authentic to me, I really recommend you watch it if you have the time, regardless of one's opinion on the validity of NDEs, it's a touching story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX803D_cofI
Putting that aside, I'm still not comfortable with the idea of being forced to "go back". It's not a disturbing idea in itself, but the fact that whatever entities people meet during NDEs often use emotional pressure and coercion to force the person to go back (showing them relatives who'd miss them, telling them they have "things to do" but not mentioning anything else than that, giving vacuous justifications in general) doesn't sit well with me. What could be the implications of this?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:31:03 2020 No.16745054

>>16744952
Just like in Platonism, Christianity posits that Evil does not exist, but evil does. Both maintain that all things are Good in that they all partake of what is Good. See: evil is not good, not being good it is not existence itself for existence itself is good, it is not life itself for life itself is good, it is not intellect itself for the same reason. Thus evil is completely parasitic and dependent on good (while, before any idiot reply to me ''uuuuh why good is not dependent on evil'', good is independent and self-subsistent because it is good itself, much life existence exists by itself not dependent on another existence).

>OT God
OT God is an aspect of the numinous, it is common among all ancient traditions, it is the awareness of the relation between creature-creator and the latter's omnipotence.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:31:40 2020 No.16745060 >>16745004 >puerile How so?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:31:45 2020 No.16745063 >>16745037 >Not giving up in the face of adversity is masochism Ok hedonist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:32:27 2020 No.16745070 >>16745027 >The problem of the horizon only exists if you believe in flat Earth, which means you believe in the visual vanishing point by extension. If you don't believe in flat Earth then the problem of the horizon doesn't exist either.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:32:39 2020 No.16745072

>>16744952
I would say God is so because He reveals Himself as the personal God of a certain population, urging them to be Spartan and wholly intolerant of any weakness, disobedience, or defeat. Then He just moved into stage 2 of His plan, no need for there being a "change of Gods" or just God "changing His mind on a whim." The aforementioned are just the preferred reading of gnostic and atheist drones

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:32:49 2020 No.16745073 >>16745028 This seems like a shoddy justification, God didn't have to do what he did; why would an omnipotent and omnibenevolent being create a man whom he would need to test through pain?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:33:07 2020 No.16745075 >>16745027 Why are you being so dishonest? Why do you and everyone like you like to be such a fucking sophist?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:33:25 2020 No.16745078

>>16745008
Nietzsche, Ecce Homo: "I am the first immoralist: that makes me the annihilator par excellence."
Also Nietzsche, Genealogy of Morals: slavery is good, inequality should be increased.

Amorality is like agnosticism. It's fence-sitting. What it means is that you will play the part of both the moralist and the immoralist on different occasions, so long as you stay true to yourself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:33:57 2020 No.16745083 >>16745063 imagine believing life is full of pain and adversity and then worshipping the author of that adversity instead of scorning him with your whole mind, body, and soul.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:33:58 2020 No.16745084 >>16744452 the longer you stare at her picture, the more her smile seems to fade.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:34:25 2020 No.16745086

Anyone who thinks there is a problem of evil and thinks that because of this either there is no God or that God is a sort of evil creator is a materialist retard who lacks any degree of profundity of spiritual understanding and is a proud narcissist thinking that God must be dictated by your own ethical, moral, rationalistic conducts.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:34:53 2020 No.16745089

>>16745054
>OT God is an aspect of the numinous
Where is this stated explicitly? The OT is unambiguous in the way it depicts God as the one, true, omnipotent deity and not an aspect of a greater entity. Yet God in the OT is completely different from the neoplatonic One, ontologically and phenomenologically.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:36:14 2020 No.16745098 >>16745086 you're still a child worshipping a divinized parent who you really, really... need to believe wants what's best for you. just pay your taxes and shut the fuck up lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:36:34 2020 No.16745101 >>16745072 So God in that context was playing a role, to sum things up coarsely?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:37:02 2020 No.16745106 >>16745086 I have a feeling that you're not over 18

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:37:41 2020 No.16745113

>>16745027
If you don't believe in a God (translation: lack belief but say you don't believe for the bad boy atheist cred), the problem of evil still remains and drags you down into its natural consequence, which is anti-natalism, pessimism, misanthropy, efilism. If life bears evil, it should be wrong to bring someone into a world where they will suffer because, had you not had them, there would not be any suffering. Additionally, you must solve the problem of evil for all living beings. Of course, this is an anti-utopian view parallel to the transhumanist utopia most people propose, but both are pipe dreams that will never happen. How many utopians have massacred, surveilled, maltreated? How many anti-utopians haven't ever effected their life-denying ideas, instead living in an ineffectual slump? The only way forward is to affirm what happens, and to call "evil" good, thereby annulling the idea of good and evil altogether. At that point, only preference for Heaven or for Hell remains, and you'd be a fool or weakling to prefer Hell, or self-annihilation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:38:25 2020 No.16745117 >>16744976 It's not a competition. Both acts were horrific. But if it was, Furuta's was way worse. Have you looked up what they did to her?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:39:55 2020 No.16745128 >>16745113 lol what zoomer tradtuber did you steal this from? do you even know what the problem of evil is?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:40:15 2020 No.16745129 >>16745073 Job gets etarnal rewrd so it works out in the end. Those who enter heaven feel like they have never went through any pain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:41:05 2020 No.16745135 >>16745129 Yes, but that doesn't really answer my question. God could have made it so that Job never went through that pain and still got eternal reward.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:41:55 2020 No.16745142 >>16745129 I know for a fact you'd never tell Furuta's mother this you simping little pussy

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:43:09 2020 No.16745154 >>16745129 I thought there was no heaven pre-Jesus so that doesn't really make sense?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:44:26 2020 No.16745163 >>16745117 I know, suzanne capper was worse, a lot worse. Its just pathetic orientalism and fetishism, obsessing over this shit because its got a japanese aesthetic is more repugnant

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:44:51 2020 No.16745169 >>16745135 it's basically the same thing. 0 pain + infinite reward vs infinitesemal pain + infinite rewrad. the point is all the pain that happens on the earth doesn't matter becaus the evil will be punished and the good will be rewarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:45:17 2020 No.16745174 >>16745169 >the point is all the pain that happens on the earth doesn't matter becaus the evil will be punished and the good will be rewarded. shut the fuck up already

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:45:32 2020 No.16745176 >>16745129 Prove they enter heaven. >inb4 bible

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:45:55 2020 No.16745180 >>16745070 These two are not equivalent at all

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:46:05 2020 No.16745182 >>16745142 She doesn't need to hear it. I am apragamtic person. You on the other hand will do well to hear it and belive in God.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:46:20 2020 No.16745184 >>16745169 Why is the evil punished if the pain doesn't matter?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:46:30 2020 No.16745186
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>>16745073
It is not necessary for this to be proof of a non-omniscient or benevolent God; perhaps that is the consummate way to create a perfect man. Why doesn't God just "test us" in an instant, why do we have to wait? Who's to say that we wait? If God is not bound by time, time is an illusion; He's already living in the best possible world which awaits us, the deluded.

>>16745078
So he's just an unconventional moralist? What is the aim of morality?

>>16745083
Imagine being so weak you don't pray for adversity, and conquer nonetheless. The greater the difficulty, the more glory in surmounting it. Here is just the primary difference between the two of us, a difference of natures- one hates his creator for challenging him, the other bears those challenges as best as he can and affirms life, affirms his maker. If you do not have self-interest, continue with this defeatism. Is God unjust for making this world? What makes you man can judge God so absolutely? You scorn Him, you scorn yourself- dai in mine, dai in tine.

>>16745098
Stupid, bovine mischaracterization. You think these depictions give you power over others, but you don't know anything about people's personal relationships with their God. And you shoot yourself in the foot by implying you have daddy issues

>>16745101
Yes, but by His own volition.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:49:02 2020 No.16745210 >>16744540 reads as the story of a catholic saint

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:50:57 2020 No.16745230

>>16745186
>Why doesn't God just "test us" in an instant, why do we have to wait? Who's to say that we wait? If God is not bound by time, time is an illusion; He's already living in the best possible world which awaits us, the deluded.
I'm retarded, what does this imply exactly?
If He chose for things to be this way and not another, more "convenient" way, there must be a reason. Just assuming that this reason is ineffable to us by virtue of being part of God's plan seems like a copout.
But what you said about time and waiting seems to imply this world to be some kind of illusory manifestation, can it be likened to the eastern concept of maya or are you talking about something different?
Either way, why are we in this illusion?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:52:44 2020 No.16745244 >>16744492 and there is nothing wrong with that

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:53:56 2020 No.16745255 >>16744452 Is that Nevada-tan?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:55:41 2020 No.16745264 File: 71 KB, 800x765, flat,800x800,075,f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >No one ITT has mentioned redemptive suffering

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:55:41 2020 No.16745265 >>16745072 >gnostic and atheist drones I mean, assuming that a being who causes suffering is imperfect or misguided makes more sense and requires less mental gymnastics than assuming he was playing a role for some reason we can't understand

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:55:55 2020 No.16745268

>>16745186
lol you're just rationalizing brutality and pain as being part of a divine plan. you're the one swimming in copes. your type always responds with the same cringe statist hysteria - j-just do what they say, I'm sure they have our best interests at heart. pathetic

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:56:05 2020 No.16745269
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>>16745128
You didn't address any of my points. I proposed not seeing the problem of evil as evil. There you go- poof, it's gone.

>>16745174
It's a fair point. The pain doesn't matter, you are just biased, thinking it is all-important because you live in this life and have suffered only a little.

>>16745180
Completely equivalent. That which can be called "evil" by a Christian still exists in the atheist's world. Suffering, children dying, miscarriages, rapes- these things don't go away when you become an atheist. Either you propose some kind of "utopia" where all these things go away or the opposite, where life, being inherently evil (having suffering), needs to be destroyed. Both of these can never happen. Even if they do, utopias aren't built to last, and life will just form once again (if you're an atheist). Best thing to do is accept what suffering there is on earth as necessary and justified by virtue of its consequence- all just people going to a deserved Heaven, the unjust to Hell, the resurrection, and all that.

>>16745184
It's not necessarily a punishment, as if the suffering they caused to their victims is being returned unto them or something. It's not a punishment in the petty, human sense (that kid banged my daughter and left her a single mother, I'm gonna go PUNISH him), it's just the destination you chose through your life style. You're not "punishing" the chaff by throwing it into the fire, you're just putting it where it belongs, for obvious reasons (you can't mingle wheat and chaff, godliness and ungodliness).

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:57:18 2020 No.16745279 >>16745072 >stage 2 of His Plan >historicizing a transcendent Absolute >thinks this is cleaner and less shameless than just a hard dualism lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:58:49 2020 No.16745291 >>16745264 redemption from what? what did i do?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:58:57 2020 No.16745295

>>16745269
little /lit/ babies just read aquinas and cs lewis and now they've come back down from the mountain with their brainletjacs and mass posting to show us the fruits of their labors lol.

every single one of your points is demolished in an introductory lecture to the problem of evil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvbcgilfTgA&t=2s

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:58:57 2020 No.16745296 >>16745279 Not him but can YHWH even be called a transcendent absolute? He has a personality, desires, whims, finds some things tasteful and others distasteful, is capable of love and wrath. YHWH is not the Monad.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:59:55 2020 No.16745304 File: 136 KB, 660x880, 1600270794335.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16745269 Wow, you really don't even know what the problem of evil is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 12:59:58 2020 No.16745305 >>16745269 >you're just putting it where it belongs Why would God create people just to throw them away? Why create something that is destined to be trash?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:01:03 2020 No.16745315 >>16745269 Funny thing is a lot of the people who complain about suffeeing have mever siffered theselves. They are all sheltred whoteboys !

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:02:22 2020 No.16745329 >>16745305 You gave them a choice of where to go. Now you're arguing free will and that's a whole other matter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:03:05 2020 No.16745334 >>16745186 >What is the aim of morality? Power.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:03:18 2020 No.16745337 >>16745291 You likely sin every day, even if the sins are only venial like lying to your mom that you enjoyed her casserole, or shitposting on /lit/.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:03:27 2020 No.16745340

>>16745329
Your post seemed to imply God created beings who were destined to go to hell anyway.
Although it does raise a valid point, if God is omniscient, he knows what we are going to do, even if we have free will, so why create individuals whose free will will condemn them to eternal suffering?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:03:31 2020 No.16745342

>>16745315
No, it's actually the complete opposite. People who downplay evil and suffering are typically pampered and underage. ESPECIALLY the retards who think suffering is soul-making, because they still believe suffering exists for THEIR benefit - that there is no such thing as gratuitous suffering.

narcissistic capitalist consumers try to tackle Job and fail miserably

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:04:39 2020 No.16745349

>>16745269
>and life will just form once again
It depends. We got very lucky. And even if live would have emerged, it could be drastically different from ours, and the problem of evil would simply be beyond them. And Universe itself is not eternal, so no life might emerge ever again.
>Best thing to do is accept what suffering there is on earth as necessary and justified by virtue of its consequence- all just people going to a deserved Heaven, the unjust to Hell, the resurrection, and all that.
So just coping and reveling in fairy tales. To prove existence of heaven and hell, prove the existence of soul as a separate entity first. Everyone is sick and tired of your copes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:06:10 2020 No.16745362 >>16745340 You can believe in destiny and free wil at the same time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:06:24 2020 No.16745364 >>16745362 How?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:07:14 2020 No.16745372 >>16745342 What have you suffered, whiteboi?!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:07:42 2020 No.16745378 >>16745304 >That pic You merit an eternity of punishment with every mortal sin you commit, since you choose to offend a god of infinite majesty; a god who is infinitely good, infinitely loveable, and infinitely worthy of love.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:07:44 2020 No.16745379

>>16745230

>>16745265
It would an add a sense of meaning to everything, as opposed to "life sucks and then you die," all for no reason whatsoever. Everything you do would be playing a role, whether good or bad.

>>16745268
Exactly what I'm doing. "Cope" means nothing to me, but I'm not actually justifying those actions I see as evil, saying that "nothing should be done about them." The point is that whether I fail or not against these transgressive things doesn't matter, because the ultimate consequence of this life will always lead to something good. I think you're trying to strawman me by saying "if everything leads to goodness, why should you fight evil? Why shouldn't you do evil?" Ultimately, you fight evil and abstain from evil because you wish to do so. You going to Hell because of it would also be good, but not preferable to you because it's a deathly place. Perhaps I can't articulate it perfectly, but by all means I'm not proposing "statist hysteria"

>>16745230
>If He chose for things to be this way and not another, more "convenient" way, there must be a reason
No, there doesn't need to be a reason because the reasons of a supposedly omniscient God cannot be found out by limited creations with non-holistic, limited views of things. We can only put forth hypotheses, or theories.

That assumption may seem like a copout, but that doesn't make it wrong, but it's not a satisfactory answer, I agree.

>But what you said about time and waiting seems to imply this world to be some kind of illusory manifestation, can it be likened to the eastern concept of maya or are you talking about something different?
It's just an idea I thought up, that if God is not bound by causality or time, it is just an illusion created for us and for continuity's sake, so God isn't "sitting up there in Heaven, watching years go by, children starving in African and holocausts burning Jews to ashes" and callously doing nothing- I assume He experiences all of reality in its totality, with His interactions with us being a part of the play (as He must give us supernatural experiences, visions, etcetera on our own terms, so that we can understand and use them- they can't be transcendental like Him) without making Him only an actor.

Of course, "why doesn't God do it this way over another" is a poor question because any way seems as good as the other, if all can possibly lead to the same consequence. Perhaps there is more than arbitrariness at play in His choice of one path over the others, but I cannot say, with my limited reading and thinking

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:08:26 2020 No.16745381 They did nothing wrong. Women are animals, they have no souls and cannot feel pain. They are here for us to do with them as we wish.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:08:35 2020 No.16745384 >>16745378 Not him, but what if I do believe in the existence of a God of infinite goodness, but am simply skeptical as to the God of Israel's claim to that title?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:09:36 2020 No.16745390

>>16745163
I can't speak for anyone else, but it's not fucking that. They tortured Capper for a week and then set her on fire. They tortured Furuta for 40 days. More than 100 people knew about it and participated. They gangraped her, used her as a punching bag. They shoved a lit lightbulb into her pussy. They beat her then raped her. They set her on fire and raped her again. They beat her then raped her again. Then they set her on fire again. Then they raped her again. Then they beat her until she died. The Furuta case is objectively more horrific.

You're the one obsessing over this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:10:12 2020 No.16745395 >>16745364 Prople who belive that the world is predetemined still belive that people are responsible for their actions.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:10:43 2020 No.16745399 >>16745395 How can you choose to do something when it is already written that you will do that thing?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:11:31 2020 No.16745404

>>16745379
Why would you fight evil? It is willed by God. If anything, it's the people not coping like you are who are in the greatest position to fight evil. Lol the universe maximizes the Good? Is that because you're fat and comfortable inside civilization somewhere and are naive enough to believe GDP has cosmic significance?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:11:31 2020 No.16745405 File: 117 KB, 771x1000, 1600275212880.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16745378

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:13:09 2020 No.16745410 >>16745405 >OH NO CHRISTBROS HE POSTED SOME LITERAL WHO CAVEMAN'S DEPICTION OF GOD, WE GOT TOO COCKY

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:14:06 2020 No.16745419 >>16745379 >all for no reason whatsoever. Not necessarily, there can be other explanations than the one provided by the Bible, NDEs have been mentioned ITT for example.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:14:45 2020 No.16745422 >>16745399 It is written taht you will choose to do said thing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:15:08 2020 No.16745426 >>16745422 Then it's not a choice.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:16:23 2020 No.16745435

>>16745089
You can read actual books on the phenomenological consciousness, experience of the sacred. Rudolf Otto's Das Heilige is a good starting point. The OT and NT were not rationalistic philosophical treatises like late platonic ones (even though plato's dialogues were rationalistic they still had the form of drama and poetical means which in this aspect is closer to the OT and NT and the sacred writings of other traditions). Thus it is obviously not expliclty stated that OT God is an aspect of the numen, lol.

>The OT is unambiguous in the way it depicts God as the one, true, omnipotent deity and not an aspect of a greater entity
yes and this is the kind of consciousness of the sacred I told you.

>Yet God in the OT is completely different from the neoplatonic One, ontologically and phenomenologically.
ontologically no since both are concerned with the divine, but phenomenologically yes for the reasons i told you like 3 times.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:18:24 2020 No.16745451
File: 169 KB, 1044x869, 1598946864897.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>16745295
I haven't read anything, mate, so stop trying to have power over me with liberally-applied labels. Posting an hour long video isn't a response, summarize the arguments therein.

>>16745304
Non-argument. Also,
>from what I'M going to do to you, and not from what YOU'RE going to do to yourself

>>16745305
They made their choice. He created them for them to exercise their will, and they chose to become trash.

>>16745315
I have suffered greatly, and not all suffering needs to be spectacular to be great. If you are fragile, or weak, you can kill yourself over a bad grade, while a stronger man might go through a war and subsequent PTSD without doing the same.

>>16745334
Life is power

>>16745340
So that there can be individuals whose free will led them to eternal life. Unless all individuals get second chances at redemption, but I don't know about that.

>>16745349
>It depends. We got very lucky. And even if live would have emerged, it could be drastically different from ours, and the problem of evil would simply be beyond them
Think in eternal terms. If the cosmos are always going to exist, it's likely for life like ours, even if it suffers or is anguished in a different way, to eventually arise through abiogenesis, thus rendering efilism futile.

>And Universe itself is not eternal, so no life might emerge ever again.
I'm pretty sure most atheists don't believe that, but I don't know the science surrounding this. If the Universe is not forever lasting, then surely it must have had a beginning. From what?

>So just coping and reveling in fairy tales.
Yes

>To prove existence of heaven and hell, prove the existence of soul as a separate entity first.
It will be proven (or not) to everyone in death. I'm just banking on it for the sake of justifying so-called evil.

>everyone is sick and tired of your copes
The point is not to just cope, but to also try and make the world a better place. The point of the cope is to assure that the war is won even if the battles are lost

Awful lot of "copes" being thrown around, too few arguments.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:21:35 2020 No.16745471 >>16745451 >Life is power Exactly, but how is this related to the posts you're replying to, you mass-replying retard?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:22:02 2020 No.16745478 >>16745410 >you choose to offend a god of infinite majesty; a god who is infinitely good, infinitely loveable, and infinitely worthy of love >NOOOOOO YOU CANT LAUGH AT HIM YOU WILL SUFFER FOR ETERNITY NOOOOOOO

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:22:11 2020 No.16745481 >>16745451 What are you talking about a war you fucking retard lol. it is your God that wages a war against its creatures dipshit

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:22:14 2020 No.16745483

>>16745426
If there was a superpoweful computer on the other side of the galaxy predicting evrthing that each of us will ever do. And we have confirmation that said computer exist, do we stop being responsable for our actions? are we robbed of our free will just because of the existance of said computer? You'd still belive that people who do bad things should be punished right?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:22:34 2020 No.16745486

>>16745435
I'll take a look at the book you recommended.
>The OT and NT were not rationalistic philosophical treatises
>Thus it is obviously not expliclty stated that OT God is an aspect of the numen, lol.
I find this to be slightly disingenuous, because even if it is not explicitly stated, it should permeate through what is shown in the OT. A being that does not appear to possess any of the qualities we are talking about can be assumed not to possess them, especially when its actions are not only devoid of such properties but also contradict what you would expect from one that possesses them.
>yes and this is the kind of consciousness of the sacred I told you.
What I meant is that the Bible tells us that God is transcendent, omniscient and omnipotent, but God's actions do not point towards it being so, see >>16745296
>both are concerned with the divine
Yes, but to varying "degrees".

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:25:14 2020 No.16745505 >>16745451 >Awful lot of "copes" being thrown around, too few arguments. Your fairy tales can hardly be considered an "argument".

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:27:13 2020 No.16745514 >>16744540 She deserved it. >NOOOOOO NOT MY POOR KAWAII ONNAKO-RINO

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:28:41 2020 No.16745525

>>16745471
Because God is life, so wanting God is wanting power, as God is all-powerful.

>>16745405
>>16745405
>some polytheist's drawing of Bes with an inscription "Yahweh and his Asherah" added on after the drawing

>>16745478
It's not that your action "hurts his feelings" but rather that it hurts you by distancing you from Him. How can you be a Godly man if you hate or disrespect God?

>>16745481
Point being that losing a battle (e.g.,not eradicating the corrupt, Satanic institution controlling us and causing us pain) is as good as winning that battle. Anything that happens leads to an all-good consequence.

>God wages a war against its creatures dipshit
Fuck yeah. But what do you think is the point of that war, smart guy? And what's the point of Satan's war? And is "allowing pain to exist" really "Him waging a war against us," or rather allowing us to wage a war against Satan? Don't bungle things up, you can't ever make sense

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:29:25 2020 No.16745529 File: 22 KB, 324x499, job.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16744452 nigga read this

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:31:41 2020 No.16745550

>>16745486
>What I meant is that the Bible tells us that God is transcendent, omniscient and omnipotent, but God's actions do not point towards it being
oh yeah you probably think that the Wrath of God is literally biochemical reactions in a bearded man in the sky being enraged with some shit in the earth and not an analogy to the consciousness of the omnipotence of god, to his aspect of superiority and his eternal Law commanding everything?
the post you quoted probably thinks it, but do you, really?

>but to varying degrees
this is exactly my point

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:31:53 2020 No.16745554

>>16745050
I'm with you on the emotional pressure thing and forcing you to go back. The worst part of existing to me is the feeling that I had no choice in this, it just seems messed up and even if I did choose it this current version of me, in this human body, is it really the same guy as the guy who apparently chose this? And just what did I choose? this one life? thousands of lives? and for what reasons? the fact that I don't know anything makes it feel unjust to me. it just doesn't seem right.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:32:52 2020 No.16745556 >>16745529 tldr please seems interesting

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:33:45 2020 No.16745563

>>16745296
A God for humans must have human attributes ascribed to Him, even if they are analogous. Keep in mind that all throughout the Bible, God is also described as ineffable and mysterious, and that He does not have those things you mentioned but rather is described by humans composing a religious/poetic/philosophical text as having those human attributes. How can a God interact with humans without stooping to our level? Ours will always be a human understanding of a God, even if it is a Monad, or else it cannot be known (with the heart) at all.

>>16745505
As opposed to more scientific fairy tales? At least those change every decade or so, keeps them more interesting. Tell me more about those totally reproducible experiments based on what some enclave of laboratory rats have found in a microscope's lens. Whether their findings are true or not, the problem of evil still exists for atheists, and it's a problem they need to address as much as Christians because it's a problem that has consequences.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:33:53 2020 No.16745564

>>16745525
>wanting God is wanting power
People don't "want God" when they sit with their hands clasped in prayer, though. To want God would be to want to BE God, not pray to God — you would be striving to emulate God rather than look up to God like a child to a parent if you actually wanted God. And isn't God a bit of an immoral tyrant in the Bible?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:36:03 2020 No.16745572

>>16745525
>It's not that your action "hurts his feelings"
I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me
>but rather that it hurts you by distancing you from Him
how can you measure distance from something that is transcendent lmfao
>How can you be a Godly man if you hate or disrespect God?
when "godly man" means "sycophant" why would anyone but a slave aspire to be a 'godly man'?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:38:15 2020 No.16745589 >>16745378 >I'm so good that I'll damn you to eternal punishment lol

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:38:46 2020 No.16745592
File: 501 KB, 1170x1170, job.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>16745556
>The Book of Job is a book of lament, similar to other books on suffering and woe in the Bible. Jung uses the suffering of Job to draw a parallel between man’s shadow and self, to the dark and light in God’s nature. He reflects on the opposites that existed in God’s nature and explores this as it relates to the duality of his own nature. He says, God rages against Job because of Job’s conscious reflection. God’s weakness, according to Jung, is that God does not reach full consciousness in his interaction with Job. Jung believes, Job defeated God and had the moral high ground and was in a superior position to God. Even though this idea is considered blasphemous by some critics, it serves as a metaphor for the questions Jung and the world were asking about the existence of evil, questions Jung felt God could not answer.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:39:05 2020 No.16745593 >>16744884 What makes you think so?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:40:51 2020 No.16745603

>>16745564
You become divine and Godly, which is the consequence of wanting God.

>And isn't God a bit of an immoral tyrant in the Bible?
According to modern human moral ideas, sure. We don't emulate God, we emulate Jesus Christ's life, He who was both man and God (IIRC theology correctly). His life serves as the example Christians ought to follow. His life and doings because He lived as a holy man, not as a transcendental God whose actions more readily approach amorality or real, though difficult to understand consequentialism

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:41:30 2020 No.16745604 >>16744924 >Is your professor or drill instructor evil because he grills you, tests you and generally makes your life living hell? Yes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:42:39 2020 No.16745610 >>16745603 >We don't emulate God Then you don't want power. Simple as that. Now fuck off with your extremely shitty rhetorical attempt to reverse the meaning of what I'm saying.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:43:03 2020 No.16745612 >>16744924 What about people that did good but that did not believe in god or that believe in another god?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:43:03 2020 No.16745613

>>16745550
>biochemical reactions in a bearded man in the sky
Where did I imply this?
The Monad, by definition, cannot be encumbered by "states" such as emotions because it is unqualifiable. So how can God be the absolute One?
Is the God of the Bible just an emanation of the One? In which case gnostics aren't entirely wrong, putting aside their conception of evil.
>an analogy
Isn't the OT supposed to be taken literally? Maybe I'm wrong on this one.
>this is exactly my point
So your stance is that the God of the Bible is an absolute, transcendent, unqualifiable One that "dumbs itself down" in order to become intelligible?
This poses the question of why the One would make such a thing happen.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:43:24 2020 No.16745614 >>16744494 I've always meant to get around to reading Whitehead. If this is actually what he thinks I'd rather not bother.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:44:26 2020 No.16745618 >>16744957 There being a Phenomenal world, actual or ostensible.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:44:40 2020 No.16745621 >>16745592 holy shit thank you so much, this is terrible, thank you for sparing me time.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:45:29 2020 No.16745625

>>16745572
>I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me
Curious how science-heads always leave out the "but showing steadfast love to thousands[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments." afterwards. Not only that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that He does that because His feelings are hurt.

>how can you measure distance from something that is transcendent lmfao
It's not a physical distance, Einstein. It was an analogy on my part. You deny Him, you distance yourself from Him, whatever you want; of course, His energies suffuse all, warming the holy man and burning the unholy man. It's like the sun that burns basement trolls and warms healthy men alike

>when "godly man" means "sycophant" why would anyone but a slave aspire to be a 'godly man'?
Sycophant to who, dear anon? And is your relationship to this individual sycophantic, or healthy?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:47:18 2020 No.16745636 >>16745621 no problem. a low IQ retard like you wouldn't even understand the text anyways.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:47:49 2020 No.16745641 >>16745063 Yes, that is exactly what it means, there is all but no distinction between "not giving up" and "liking it".

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:47:50 2020 No.16745642

>>16745554
I don't know. It's a scary thing to think about that we might be coerced into this. The worst part is the question will never be answered until we get there, at which point it may be too late.
I just hope that whatever comes afterwards has our best interests at heart, but why would they be manipulative in such a way then?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:48:28 2020 No.16745647

>>16744452
Evil as in men and women? I would imagine most Christians would argue that no one is born evil. Since if someone was born evil that would mean God created evil. It would also make a mess of the idea of forgiveness/salvation which is central to Christianity. Punish the act not the person sort of thing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:49:01 2020 No.16745650 >>16745563 Being incomprehensible doesn't mean we cannot worship God.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:49:11 2020 No.16745652

>>16745621
Not him, but the redpill on Jung is that he's pretty much worthless, and people only namedrop him because it's part of their five minutes of hate on Freud. But despite all of his problems and his terrible jewy behavior Freud actually has some diamonds buried in his excrescences.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:50:16 2020 No.16745659 >>16744966 >the next life is the real one What does this imply, that the afterlife is the dissolution of the self into God, the dissolution of divinity into the self, or something else?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:50:21 2020 No.16745660 >>16744452 >he seriously thinks that he has read all of the two millennia of Christian history necessary to make such a dumbass claim keep reading buddy

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:50:38 2020 No.16745663 >>16744452 They have, but you're spiritually deaf and blind and philosophy can't fix your vision or your ears.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:51:34 2020 No.16745670 >>16745660 >>16745663 Not arguments.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:51:52 2020 No.16745673

>>16745613
let's go, again.
you did imply that in thinking that a psychological metaphor was meant to be taken literally. yes, god is the monad, the ot god is the same god as the nt god, but the relation with man through revelation is different, thus there are different aspects, degrees of the numinous.
the God of the OT does not speak literally, does not show emotions literally, is not enraged literally. taking everything written in sacred scriptures literally can only show a lack of critical sense so great as to impair spiritual discernment as well.

>OT supposed to be taken literally?
in the sense of adam and eve, paradise, fall, moses, exodus, abraham etc.. yes, and these all at the same time have an intellectual, theological and metaphysical signification through symbolism too. but god literally being a man, no.

> that "dumbs itself down" in order to become intelligible?
no, the intelligibility of god is done through degrees and by human consciousness. we can even see that in the OT there is already explicit indications of a much more sophisticated and profound consciousness of god as apophatic Being.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:52:47 2020 No.16745678

>>16745117
Reading that story did worse things to my mind than any of the videos I've seen of people being dismembered or even tortured and burned to death. I don't think I've encountered anything more disturbing.

In fact, after reading it I started to fantasize about becoming a time-traveling superhero who trained in martial arts and went back to 1989 to save her. I even imagined elaborate weapons and technologies I would use to dissuade her assailants, the various contingency scenarios I might have to deal with, and even the masks and body armor I'd wear. I still do sometimes. I'm not a weeaboo or anything, just autistic.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:52:57 2020 No.16745680

>>16745604
Then it's a problem on your end

>>16745610
We emulate Jesus Christ, who is God. We don't emulate God's actions, we emulate Jesus Christ's actions, because he is God made man, and we are men who must follow the examples of men. "If you don't want to become God then you don't want power." But no one can become God, that is not the power we can attain, nor is it a power that a creature can comprehend

>>16745621
I second. Seems very rabbinical to me
https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19900616&slug=1077402

>>16745613
>encumbered by "states" such as emotions because it is unqualifiable
Perhaps God in His essence is unencumberable, but He can encumber Himself to become intelligible to humans.

>isn't the OT meant to be taken literally?
You're just muddling things here. The accounts are literal, but God or His actions being described as "wrathful" could be analogous, and are not necessarily literal descriptions of God. Keep in mind that human emotions need an archetype.

>So your stance is that the God of the Bible is an absolute, transcendent, unqualifiable One that "dumbs itself down" in order to become intelligible?
>This poses the question of why the One would make such a thing happen.
To be understandable. The way I see it, it doesn't matter how it achieves this, all that matters is that it makes itself understandable.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:53:04 2020 No.16745682

>>16745625
>Curious how science-heads always leave out the "but showing steadfast love to thousands[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments." afterwards. Not only that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that He does that because His feelings are hurt.
so his feelings are hurt by people not keeping his commandments, meaning my actions hurt his feelings, meaning you are wrong and trying to trash around with more sophist nonsense
>It's not a physical distance, Einstein. It was an analogy on my part. You deny Him, you distance yourself from Him, whatever you want; of course, His energies suffuse all, warming the holy man and burning the unholy man. It's like the sun that burns basement trolls and warms healthy men alike
so how am I "distancing" myself from a transcendent being which created me in his image? who would care that I distance myself?
>Sycophant to who, dear anon? And is your relationship to this individual sycophantic, or healthy?
>sycophantic, or healthy?
there is no "or" here christcuck, the question is whether or not being a sycophant corresponds to some true state of affairs with the universe and the consequences of behavior
but we both know there is no truth content in these claims, only the extension of your wishful thinking and nostalgia for childhood traditions

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:53:48 2020 No.16745685

>>16745673
>taking everything written in sacred scriptures literally can only show a lack of critical sense so great as to impair spiritual discernment as well.
Yet the overwhelming majority of believers including the catholic and orthodox churches take scripture literally.
>god literally being a man, no.
Obviously, since this is never stated.
>there is already explicit indications of a much more sophisticated and profound consciousness of god as apophatic Being.
I'm not questioning your honesty but I don't remember such a passage, could you point me towards it?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:54:54 2020 No.16745692

>>16745636
>I am intelligent, I read JUNG.
hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha

>>>16745652
yeah i have an ambiguous response to Freud, I think he may have very pertinent things to say about modernity but he had know idea about another fundamental side of reality.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:56:47 2020 No.16745701

>>16745642
yeah and even if we did "choose" to be here under what context was this choice? was it a choice between everything or a choice between 2 or more things that we had to do? I can choose what to eat at a restaurant but I can also walk out if I don't like any of what's on the menu, can the same be said here? we don't know the context or anything. I sense a sinister nature to all this but I hope I'm wrong

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:57:04 2020 No.16745704 >>16744452 .. hell?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:57:16 2020 No.16745707
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>>16745642
According to human conceptions, a good God wouldn't put us through this, giving us paradise immediately. Then would an evil God immediately send us all to Hell? These not being the case, God, in essence, cannot be good or evil. If you were coerced into this, why do you still exist?

>>16745650
Yes, you just need to appeal to something less rigorous than the mind. Something irrational, or preternatural

>>16745678
What would happen if you didn't regret anything that happened in the past? If you just let it go and resolved to make the future better? Not for instrumentality's sake, but because you accept it all as good?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:58:02 2020 No.16745712

>>16745680
>Keep in mind that human emotions need an archetype.
If the way God is depicted is the result of human emotions distorting His true nature, why is there such specificity in the way God is meant to be worshiped? I'm talking about things such as venial sins, liturgy and such. Why would God care?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:58:27 2020 No.16745714 File: 79 KB, 992x744, Brendt Christensen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16744817 Amerimutts do this kind of shit all the time. Take you smug attitude and shove it up your ass, mutt.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 13:58:33 2020 No.16745716 >>16745704 Spook. Prove the existence of soul first.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:00:42 2020 No.16745733 >>16745589 Your choice, bro.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:02:42 2020 No.16745748 >>16745680 >Then it's a problem on your end Yes? This is the original question.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:03:28 2020 No.16745754

>>16745678
Yeah. That case made me revalue a couple very deeply held beliefs about violence and punishment.

I used to be against the death sentence. I still am, mostly, but there are some people who just need to beaten to death with a hammer for the greater good. There are some people I would relish beating to death with a hammer. Who knew.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:04:25 2020 No.16745763

>>16745680
>We emulate Jesus Christ, who is God. We don't emulate God's actions, we emulate Jesus Christ's actions, because he is God made man, and we are men who must follow the examples of men.
This is not what being "beyond good and evil" means. It means being true to your will and not following a religion which paints certain aspects of your own will as "evil." I really have no idea why you responded to me, because your replies have had nothing to do with my posts.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:07:02 2020 No.16745789

>>16745707
>Then would an evil God immediately send us all to Hell?

Not really. The argument that things could be worse is worthless.

>sure we're in hell but like would an evil god really just send us to hell bro like he could easily make superhell and send THERE instead! HA!

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:08:00 2020 No.16745795

>>16745682
>so his feelings are hurt by people not keeping his commandments, meaning my actions hurt his feelings, meaning you are wrong and trying to trash around with more sophist nonsense
Doesn't "steadfast love" just mean giving salvation, or giving gifts?

It's just a petty way of looking at things, that God only wants you to follow the commandments because He'll get mad if you don't, as if you have any power over Him.

>so how am I "distancing" myself from a transcendent being which created me in his image? who would care that I distance myself?
By marring yourself, and making yourself against His image. Who would care? Ideally, you, but if you don't care you have no right to complain about Hell or Heaven.

>there is no "or" here christcuck, the question is whether or not being a sycophant corresponds to some true state of affairs with the universe and the consequences of behavior

>but we both know there is no truth content in these claims, only the extension of your wishful thinking and nostalgia for childhood traditions
You HOPE it is so, but in truth, you know just as little. I am cultivating a spiritual life for the purpose of knowing God, so the claims I start out with are verifiable. You can only ever find the truth by beginning with a hypothesis, with a guess. In this case, I have more than a guess, I have years of accumulated spiritual experiences, biographies, saints, etcetera; if you wish to reduce all to "swamp gas" or convenient mental illnesses, you seem to be in the same camp of wishful thinking. No evidence is good enough when that is involved.

>>16745701
Could you even choose to be here? Did you have a personality and mind before this reality? There are only two choices that matter- for or against life; there is no need for variety, as seen in quotidian indulgences like restaurant menus. Can you walk out? Would it be in your best interests to walk out? If you don't want to fight and overcome, then you perish, and that is good because that is your deserts

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:08:24 2020 No.16745797 >>16744452 You mean the problem of suffering. Evil is not an issue

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:09:19 2020 No.16745805

>>16745707
>Yes, you just need to appeal to something less rigorous than the mind. Something irrational, or preternatural
My point is that the intelligibility of God is not a prerequisite to his worship, so the supposedly "dumbed down" manifestation of God in the OT is not necessary.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:09:38 2020 No.16745808 >>16745797 Suffering is not evil?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:10:12 2020 No.16745811 >>16745733 what an hypocrite

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:10:45 2020 No.16745813 >>16745707 >If you were coerced into this, why do you still exist? There could be various reasons why someone who keeps you imprisoned would want to keep you alive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:11:19 2020 No.16745815 >>16745808 >inmendham has joined the chat

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:11:44 2020 No.16745817

>>16745685
they take literally in the way i told you, they don't think god is a person like us being enraged; they know that these when discribing god is meant to be in a ''godly'' way. i cant speak for every person that reads the bible and is a christian, but they know god is transcendental even if they think spatially transcendental that is a metaphor.

>>16745685
>Obviously, since this is never stated.
you implied that in your posts and quoting posts that literally questioned his divinity and took his love, wrath, and other metaphors literally in the sense they are known in man.

>but I don't remember such a passage,
Genesis, Exodus (specially). off the top of my head. the tetragrammatton, god in darkness, ''whoever sees my face shall not live'', etc. not to mention the allegorical interpretation of the exodus as analogy to divine kenosis and its ascetical counterpart of self-negation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:12:10 2020 No.16745819 >eternal punishment Isn't hell just being in a state where God is not present? In a way, it's a natural consequence for someone who distances themselves from God: to end up in a state where they are infinitely distant from Him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:13:39 2020 No.16745824 >>16745701 >under what context was this choice? Some NDEs point towards deception. I hope this is not the case. I'm not a gnostic but I'm skeptical of the belief that there are no other forces at play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v79lVNKthCw

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:16:54 2020 No.16745842

>>16745712
>Why would God care?
I'll add to this: why would God not want us to know Him through all means possible?
Yet listening to the Church will have you dissuaded from attempting to stray from the prescribed path by studying esotericism, shamanic practices and so on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:17:13 2020 No.16745846 >>16745824 >NDEs Literally a meme, no? You are not dead, your brain still functions under extreme pressure, that it is able to provide you with hallucinations, some interpret as "divine" experiences.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:18:22 2020 No.16745856 >>16745819 So God is not omnipresent?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:18:32 2020 No.16745858

>>16745795
>Doesn't "steadfast love" just mean giving salvation, or giving gifts?
No. Why would it?
>It's just a petty way of looking at things, that God only wants you to follow the commandments because He'll get mad if you don't, as if you have any power over Him.
Yes, this petty ethics is the basis of christcuckery
>By marring yourself, and making yourself against His image. Who would care? Ideally, you, but if you don't care you have no right to complain about Hell or Heaven.
Ah, so god cares to punish me, and just like that we are right back at your transcendent being somehow not being above petty anger and resentment.

>You HOPE it is so, but in truth, you know just as little. I am cultivating a spiritual life for the purpose of knowing God, so the claims I start out with are verifiable. You can only ever find the truth by beginning with a hypothesis, with a guess. In this case, I have more than a guess, I have years of accumulated spiritual experiences, biographies, saints, etcetera; if you wish to reduce all to "swamp gas" or convenient mental illnesses, you seem to be in the same camp of wishful thinking. No evidence is good enough when that is involved.
I'm not claiming to know more than I do. Perhaps there is an omnipotent child pulling the strings of all existence, but I do know that you pretending this being is "omnibenevolent" is simply an extension of your fear rather than reason. You just play at doublespeak because the game you are in requires this sort of dissonance, not because you are communicating truthfully.

The problem of evil holds. No one outside your game feels compelled to put their fingers in their ears and hum that everything is for the best.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:19:07 2020 No.16745866 >>16745856 He's omnipotent, he can create a place where he's not present despite being omnipresent, he does what he wants

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:19:55 2020 No.16745871

>>16745712
It seems to me as being expedients and ideas constructed by men who have known God (e.g., saints, monks) to more quickly know God, or come closer to Him despite living in a weaker, more decadent world. Really, denying these things or promoting heresies just gets you excommunicated. You can't say whether or not it sends you to Hell.

>>16745748
It's a problem of how you look at things, a view which leads to absurdity. "It's evil to be harshly instructed" Why? "Because it hurts." So what? Are you willing to extend this thinking to your daily life (that it is always bad to cause suffering, no matter the consequence)?

>>16745716
Spooks are a spook. There is no ethereal body that needs to proving, it's just the idea that life persists after death that needs to be proved.

>>16745789
That's not the argument I was making, There's no such thing as a superhell, that would just be like infinity X2 or infinity + 1. The argument remains the same, an "evil God" would send everyone to a state of maximum suffering immediately, regardless of people. Basically, it's like an AI simulating infinite suffering, forever. That's not God, and that's not Hell.

I wasn't trying to justify the suffering on earth by virtue of it possibly being worse, I was just trying to show that the same argumentation that leads people to believe that God is not good can be used to show God is not evil.

>>16745763
It has everything to do with your replies, mate. You say that we don't want power because we don't want to become equivalent to God. I say that we do, but in the only way creatures can follow.

>not following a religion which paints certain aspects of your own will as "evil."
Evil in that they lead you away from God. I don't see what's wrong with such a religion, it just depends on what aspects are considered evil

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:20:55 2020 No.16745877 >>16745866 then why would he willingly deprive some places of his presence if being with him is the apex of existence? does he do that just to punish those that disobey him? what a psycho god.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:21:20 2020 No.16745879 >>16745659 Anyone?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:21:56 2020 No.16745882 File: 9 KB, 235x215, gr.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16745866 >sky man big strong, can definitely make rock too heavy for him!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:22:22 2020 No.16745887 >>16745877 The only way hell makes any sense is if it is self-inflicted. Which is what permeates through pretty much every single religion.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:22:56 2020 No.16745891

>>16745871
>It's a problem of how you look at things, a view which leads to absurdity. "It's evil to be harshly instructed" Why? "Because it hurts." So what? Are you willing to extend this thinking to your daily life (that it is always bad to cause suffering, no matter the consequence)?

Yes, of course.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:23:36 2020 No.16745898 >>16745817 Thanks for your answers, I understand your point of view more clearly.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:24:06 2020 No.16745903

>>16745871
>I say that we do, but in the only way creatures can follow.
Let me correct myself: you're right, you do want power. But so do Nietzsche and "the sinful," and there's no power to gain for such people by following such a religion.

>Evil in that they lead you away from God.
There is no God other than the self. Your commandments lead certain people away from themselves. Your "objective morality" is a mask for your own will to power.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:25:23 2020 No.16745911 >>16745887 you know, this answer actually makes a lot of sense. thanks, anon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:29:28 2020 No.16745933 >>16745887 Does this go against church dogma?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:37:11 2020 No.16745968

>>16745805
>My point is that the intelligibility of God is not a prerequisite to his worship, so the supposedly "dumbed down" manifestation of God in the OT is not necessary.
If God is omnipotent, why would anything be necessary to Him? How can you worship something you don't have an inkling of an idea about? Some intelligibility is needed to first grasp God, to have something to direct yourself towards. Even the "Monad" is an idea, and bound to human conceptions, which is a "dumbing down." You must conceive of the Monad as something to know how to follow it, and through what.

>>16745813
Most of these reasons can be discounted. It would be easier to say that we exist to undergo the trial of life and attain salvation, or (if God is a big meanie) to undergo the trial expecting salvation but to get spurned and punished instead. It would be impossible to prove that God wants to trick us, and the only communicable evidence of God's intentions can be garnered while we are on this earth; this evidence points to no trickery, and the remuneration of the worthy.

>>16745842
Because those means would either be outmoded (if God spoke to other civilizations through them in order to seed precursor religions anticipating Jesus Christ), or uninspired by God and thus dead, open for possession by spirits. Of course, this assumes a lot that needs appealing to specific cases to justify

>>16745846
Apparently there have been NDEs while people have been braindead, and descriptions of things that could not have humanly been described while brain dead. It would be easier to just say it's fake wherever these accounts contradict the current dogma of science

>>16745858
>No. Why would it?
How else would it "show steadfast love," if it does not have human emotions? "Steadfast love" could just refer to the benisons it dispenses

>Yes, this petty ethics is the basis of christcuckery
The petty name-calling and strawmanning of someone who hasn't told me of their beliefs, yet. Probably another humdrum agnostic, how original

>Ah, so god cares to punish me, and just like that we are right back at your transcendent being somehow not being above petty anger and resentment.
Really, you punish yourself by marring your image. He doesn't need to punish you.

A better description: https://www.orthodoxroad.com/heaven-hell/
Start at the heading titled "THERE’S NO PLACE CALLED HELL…OR HEAVEN"

>that you pretending this being is "omnibenevolent" is simply an extension of your fear rather than reason
Point to the evidence that makes this being anything but omnibenevolent, unless you disconsider all the experiences of men, from saints and gurus to supernatural dilettantes. You can always keep asking "what if? what if?" "What if God is trying to trick us into thinking He's good, so He can make us suffer even more?" However, He doesn't really seem to be tricking us into thinking He's good, He seems to have convinced more people that He's bad or impassive, implying that the opposite's true

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:40:32 2020 No.16745988
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>>16745670
you want a quick and easy argument? well it doesnt fucking exist, but ill give you bare bones
plato said that every man aspires to do good, and that evil men are simply ignorant, christians echo this, ie proverbs "a fool is wise in his own conceit," i simply cite this example because it is popular
therefore there is no evil but only ignorance
and since op is an ignorant twat who won't read or study anything and just shits up this board looking for quick and easy answers, he is evil

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:44:08 2020 No.16746014

>>16745877
He is present everywhere, but His presence oppresses those who hate Him, brings joy to those who love Him. It's not a matter of legalistic punishment, it's a matter of Him being the creator, we being of Him, and choosing either friction (to set ourselves at odds with Him) or accordance. If it is not done out of coercion, but rather out of your own will and desire, it is not compliance but accordance.

>>16745903
>and there's no power to gain for such people by following such a religion
Perhaps there's not much worldly power, but people who believe in Christianity believe it, supposedly, because of the power that is to be gained in doing so. Besides, I'm sure Christianity became so influential because of its power; the worldly power to be gained today, however, is closer to having a community of interconnected relationships, alleviation of fears, a telos, etcetera.

>There is no God other than the self. Your commandments lead certain people away from themselves. Your "objective morality" is a mask for your own will to power.
Of course, we are "made in the image of God," we have that divinity within ourselves. Either we loose that fire and join it in eternity, or we cover it, become like cold coal, and burn up instead.

>Your commandments lead certain people away from themselves
Which ones in particular, and how?

> Your "objective morality"
It's more pragmatic than it is objective. You don't "know God" just by applying some basic set of laws that has allowed men to approach each other on common terms. Is it a mask for my will to power? Will to power is just a mask for will to pleasure. And Hell yeah, I do wish to enforce it upon others. What's with this identification of hidden "wills to powers" and ulterior motives, as if these give you power over your opponent?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:46:34 2020 No.16746035

>>Apparently there have been NDEs while people have been braindead, and descriptions of things that could not have humanly been described while brain dead
But they came back to tell their stories, so you can't rule out all the false memories that could have formed as they returned to normal neural activity. Even thermal randomness occurring in a braindead patient could play some part in false memory production. That is why I am so skeptical of NDEs as proof of any afterlife. If your brain was completely "off", you should remember nothing of the afterlife. If it was ever on, there is no reason to think your resulting memories are reliable.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:47:42 2020 No.16746047

>>16745988
Yeah, maniacs aspire to do good for themselves by receiving pleasure via torturing other people, because they can't get pleasure any other way. But that's hardly an argument. This is not the "good" Plato was referring to, or Christians. So I doubt OP's example, or Bittaker, or anyone else, you name it, aspired to the good you are referring to.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:48:57 2020 No.16746056 >>16745968 >Even the "Monad" is an idea It's a word. But the unknowability of the One didn't prevent neoplatonists from considering it as the highest object of worship, right?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:50:45 2020 No.16746070 >>16744452 your mistake is applying human notions of evil to to chinks, which are basically a soulless insectoid race

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:51:24 2020 No.16746073

>>16745968
>Most of these reasons can be discounted
How can you be sure?
Not to go full schizo on you but the theory of archons doesn't seem too out there
>this evidence points to no trickery
near death experiences indicate that there is some weird shit going on
>>16745968
>this assumes a lot that needs appealing to specific cases to justify
I think the most common examples of things that are outside of church doctrine but considered supernatural would be out of body experiences/astral projection and such, as well as the use of certain psychoactives for spiritual purposes

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:53:46 2020 No.16746093
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>>16746047
the only problem with evil is injustice, no one cares if an evildoer receives evil, because this is just
God is not unjust, by definition of course, but it can be further proved by thus
>good men cannot be hurt by bad men
>good men beget good, bad beget bad
>no man is good, all men fail in the sight of the Lord (only cringe subjective moralists like nietzsch and pagans/hedons like sade will disagree here)
>therefore all men deserve eternal hellfire and damnation (or whatever punishment is apt to your particular sin, we can infer that hell has degrees, along with dante, because paul tells us that each will recieve in proportion to what good he does on the earth in heaven [heavily paraphrased])
>since God does not give everyone hellfire (we know thie because He told us [God is not a man that he should lie]) he is not only just, but overjust, because he has zero obligation to do so, yet he does anyway. He is righteous and gracious.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:54:09 2020 No.16746097

>>16745968
Not the guy you were responding to but
>https://www.orthodoxroad.com/heaven-hell/
>to be consumed and healed
I don't like this interpretation of the presence of God as the abnegation of self or the destruction of the self through the assimilation of the soul into its source, it feels almost nondualist. Are there other interpretations or is this the Christian canon?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:56:03 2020 No.16746107

>>16746073
>that there is some weird shit going on
It's called lack of oxygen and glucose due to
cardiac arrest and cessation of blood flow. You hear noises and see flashes, feel high as fuck due to various chemicals your body is producing. Really weird shit!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:56:22 2020 No.16746109 >>16746107 Fuck off materialist bugman

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 14:57:47 2020 No.16746118 >>16746109 Do you have a better explanation? I'll wait.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:00:09 2020 No.16746127 Has anyone?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:02:45 2020 No.16746144 >>16744452 I just read the wikipedia article on this girl. what the actual fuck? this is why we needs atomic bombs holy those nipps are beyond..

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:03:13 2020 No.16746150

>>16746093
Whom did he tell again? How can God convey something to human beings, when he is by definition perfect and has no reason to lower himself to the level that human could comprehend? Do you really literally believe in the Bible? Please, be serious.
You proposed a number of things(hell, heaven), which I am supposed to take at face value, because?
>the only problem with evil is injustice
No, it is not the only problem. Mother, who lost her child, doesn't only care whether the murderer will be punished. That will not return her child. That will not take away the pain, that will last her entire life. That begs the question, whether life is worth the risk at all? What in life could justify its potential horrors?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:04:15 2020 No.16746155 >>16746109 ok caveman brain is literally magic xD

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:06:36 2020 No.16746165 >>16746155 >brain bugman

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:07:48 2020 No.16746169 >>16746165 Prove soul, caveman.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:09:13 2020 No.16746177

>>16745968
>How else would it "show steadfast love," if it does not have human emotions? "Steadfast love" could just refer to the benisons it dispenses
Not creating beings to be damned to eternal punishment is a very low bar this somehow omnibenevolent omnipotent to fail to meet.
>The petty name-calling and strawmanning of someone who hasn't told me of their beliefs, yet. Probably another humdrum agnostic, how original
the guy posting wojaks is complaining about name-calling and strawmanning, amazing how christcucks can maintain such a developed victim complex
>https://www.orthodoxroad.com/heaven-hell/
this fanfic makes no sense, you may as well post some mormon cannon if you are looking for an easy out
>Point to the evidence that makes this being anything but omnibenevolent, unless you disconsider all the experiences of men, from saints and gurus to supernatural dilettantes. You can always keep asking "what if? what if?" "What if God is trying to trick us into thinking He's good, so He can make us suffer even more?" However, He doesn't really seem to be tricking us into thinking He's good, He seems to have convinced more people that He's bad or impassive, implying that the opposite's true
Look at the OP of the thread retard. It's always some lazy teenager like you, with the theory of mind and empathy of an eleven year old, that tries to argue gratuitous undeserved suffering exists in the world. You have no answer other than 'haha but actually when she died she went to disneyland but BETTER and everything was okay forever and ever"

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:10:07 2020 No.16746182

>>16746150
>how can God convey something to human beings
He's God baka.
>no reason to lower himself
Solis Gratis my man. Read kierkegaards fear and trembling. I believe because it is absurd to believe and no other reason. You cannot reason with me, because i am absurd
>the classic muh bad things happen to good people
I deny you, as i did before, that anyone has the title of good man. we are all bad. in a sense, she deserved her child to be killed, for she herself was a murderer
also the murderer, as the evildoer in the republic, is punished by the fact that he did evil, evil does not hurt the good but only the evil
if youre an anti-platonist i have zero reason to talk with you at all
>muh pain, muh is life worth is, muh nihilism
nope, life isnt worth it. life is inherently meaningless and vain, it is filthy and wretched, of no good or use. it is death where true life begins
>what in life justifies the horror of itself
absolutely nothing, there is zero redeemable qualities to this shitshow, but your asking the wrong question again
>what in death justifies life?
everything
all of life is meaningless before death, all inconsequential, because it is the final consequence

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:10:25 2020 No.16746183

>>16746014
>Perhaps there's not much worldly power
There is no "otherworldly" power, so the word "worldly" is a meaningless addition. This is just another mask created by your own will to power for its own propagation in the world. It's pure drivel and you're a liar, in other words.

>the worldly power to be gained today, however, is closer to having a community of interconnected relationships, alleviation of fears, a telos, etcetera.
You don't speak for every will, you sneaky cunt.

>Which ones in particular, and how?
Any number of them, depending on the will in question, by regarding certain instincts of said will as "sinful" and then declaring that this will which seeks the path of its own will to power as having "strayed from God." But you know this already, and you don't care.

>Will to power is just a mask for will to pleasure.
How is it a mask? It's pretty straightforward, nothing is being obscured. You're the one who's been trying to obscure its meaning all this time, through lies.

>What's with this identification of hidden "wills to powers" and ulterior motives, as if these give you power over your opponent?
Your talk of God is exactly that: a tactic which gives you power over your opponent. I said that to you, but apparently you don't know how to read, or you overlooked it because you're a pretentious prick.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:10:25 2020 No.16746184 >>16746144 And yet the perpetrators walked away with little to no punishment. Pretty fucked up world we live in, isn't it?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:14:00 2020 No.16746208

>>16746182
>evil does not hurt the good but only the evil
>if youre an anti-platonist i have zero reason to talk with you at all
You are literally retarded. Punishment is meant to fix the evildoer, and it is not considered evil. If evildoer walks unpunished, that would be worse for himself. Did you even read Plato?
>You cannot reason with me, because i am absurd
Nice.
>all of life is meaningless before death, all inconsequential, because it is the final consequence
Why should we all just not an hero? Why didn't you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:15:35 2020 No.16746216 >>16746169 what moves by itself

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:17:13 2020 No.16746221

>>16746208
all things being meaningless is the the same as all things bearing meaning
why do i not an hero, because i am relegated to my lot, i eat, i drink, i enjoy the fruit of my labors, this is what i am given, and it is enough for a life
>punishment is meant to fix the evildoer
the punishment is the action, if you say that life is so tough, why do you assume that its not tough for them as well?
they suffer just as well as everyone else, and deserve as much pity

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:21:29 2020 No.16746241 >>16746216 Come again?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:24:59 2020 No.16746252

>>16746216
>>16746221
>all things being meaningless is the the same as all things bearing meaning
What a load of drivel.
>they suffer just as well as everyone else
Not everyone who suffers decides to go and bring more suffering to other people, suffering that would have never been experienced, if not for the evildoer that caused it.
Stop with the sophistry. This was extremely cringe, especially this bit:
>we are all bad. in a sense, she deserved her child to be killed, for she herself was a murderer

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:28:30 2020 No.16746271 File: 304 KB, 960x653, you can't just.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16745891

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:28:30 2020 No.16746272

>>16746241
refute it idiot

>>16746252
>>16746182
since you posit something that is not worth, and is ''evil'' i suppose you believe in evil or badness, since you believe in it you believe in its contrary, worthness and goodness. now i ask you, what is evil and what is good for you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:30:20 2020 No.16746285 >>16745514 you’re going to hell dude

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:31:15 2020 No.16746297 >>16746216 >>16746272 Nothing moves by itself. You just refuted the soul all on your own.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:31:43 2020 No.16746300 >muh eternal suffering >>16745887

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:33:43 2020 No.16746317

>>16746252
>heraclitus is a load of drivel
also how can you know they dont suffer? can something clean be brought forth from unclean?
like proceeds from like, therefore suffering proceeds from suffering
>suffering that would never have been experienced
most things are inevitable, humans have less freewill than they like to believe, but even without that admission, suffering is inherent in life so in time it would have come anyways, to the same extent? maybe not,but any suffering is too much, so degrees are rather arbitrary
also my allusion in she was a murderer was from mathew, but you havent read that, yet you consider yourself apt to have this discussion to any capacity
>muh sophistry
its only sophisticated because you dont get it
and if i said i was platonist, and thereby as socratist, you would presume i stand with socrates in his denouncing of sophistry for the love of knowledge
>>16746272
the world is evil and God is good
because God is good by definition, and the world killed God, meaning they ceased good, and the cessation of good is evil, hence why in luke Jesus rebuked the disciples sophistry when they brought a pagan healing and said denounce him. although the pauline interpretation of this makes it a more temporally relevant statement, than an eternal one that we in the present day should adhear to, i digress

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:34:07 2020 No.16746321 >>16746317 >the world is evil That's kinda gnostic bro

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:36:53 2020 No.16746339

>>16746321
gnosticism contains elements of christianity in it
God is good, and therefore his creation which proceeds from him is also good, but the creation which rebels against its creator is evil
hence Jesus submission to the Father and the demonization of patricide in every culture everywhere from all time, its pure evil
God hasnt left us, but given us a way out, the knowledge of the times is not given to us to know, so neither is the express intent in such
also way to point out one point rather than writing a full response

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:37:35 2020 No.16746345

>>16746272
You know that these questions are barely answerable and can be manipulated in any way you want. But I would say torture is one of the worst evils.
>inb4 so pain is evil?
No, pain is not necessarily evil. But when one inflicts pain upon other for the sake of pain, it may be evil.
What is good? Everything pro-life, I guess? That, which allows one to fulfill his biological programming.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:39:17 2020 No.16746353 >>16746345 not the guy but hes going to say something like life is suffering so pro life is pro evil also >biological programming reddit is thata way bucko

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:41:17 2020 No.16746370 >>16746339 >God is evil, and therefore his creation which proceeds from him is also evil, but the creation which rebels against its creator is good fixed

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:42:39 2020 No.16746378 >>16746300 This fixes the problem of hell but does it adress the problem of evil itself?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:42:42 2020 No.16746379 File: 365 KB, 240x213, 1596813776617.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16746370 wow so this is the power of retardation huh

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:46:40 2020 No.16746404 File: 2.71 MB, 640x360, 1603741168787.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16746379 >NOOOOOOO YOU ARE RETARDED IF YOU DONT WORSHIP A OMNIBENEVOLENT RAPIST SLAVER NOOOOO

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:48:15 2020 No.16746416

>>16744540
Jun-chan, welcome back. I have never dreamed that we would see you again in this way. You must have been in so much pain ... so much suffering ... The happi we all made for the school festival looked really good on you. We will never forget you. I have heard that the headmaster has presented you with a graduation certificate. So we graduated together – all of us. Jun-chan, there is no more pain, no more suffering. Please rest in peace ...

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:52:38 2020 No.16746441 >>16746404 that webm made me dry heave hard

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:53:35 2020 No.16746449 >>16746404 Christians do stupid things Atheists do stupid things I don't see what point you're trying to make with that webm

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:56:41 2020 No.16746469

>>16746404
ok the strawmans are really coming out today
im saying unless your an atheist, which is absurd and philosophically illiterate, you confess that a god exists to some capacity
and a god is by definition good, this isnt christian at all, do i seriously have to teach you fucking animism and basic pagan understandings? youre far from ready for christianity

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 15:57:35 2020 No.16746474 >>16746469 Not him but how do you arrive at the deduction that a higher power is necessarily good? I believe there exists something beyond what we can perceive that could be called God but why should it be good?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 16:02:45 2020 No.16746505 >>16744452 Because Job already solved it 1500 years before Christianity

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 16:03:05 2020 No.16746508 >>16746469 >a god is by definition good the person saying this calls others retards, everyone

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 16:19:25 2020 No.16746622 >>16744606 what, are you gonna cry about it?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 16:42:45 2020 No.16746776

>>16746297
if nothing moves by itself... whence movement anon?

>>16746345
i just wanted to know from him if there is anything such as good and bad (or evil).

>>16746317
you say the world IS evil but then say the world became evil... how can i talk to someone like this

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 16:47:19 2020 No.16746817 >>16746776 >if nothing moves by itself... whence movement anon? From other things?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 16:48:59 2020 No.16746831 >if nothing moves by itself... whence movement anon? Movement is relational, as Berkeley and Einstein proved. It is impossible for there to be motion without a frame of reference to compare it to.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 16:53:52 2020 No.16746866 >>16744540 I would enola gay that Chink! desu

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 16:55:39 2020 No.16746881 >>16746817 what other things? what about these other things? since they dont move by themselves, how do they move? by other other things? what about these other other things that dont move by themselves?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 16:56:42 2020 No.16746885 >>16746831 yes that is my point, you dont need to be very intelligent to perceive it

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:03:52 2020 No.16746930 >>16746885 >yes that is my point If that was your point, then you are terrible at conveying yourself. Not who you replied to, by the way. Also, "soul" still remains undefined / non-existent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:07:52 2020 No.16746970 >>16745714 relax ahmed, we won't even talk about your country

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:07:55 2020 No.16746971 >>16744544 This, but only for the next ten minutes, and within those minutes the term 'Fascism' will be defined as 'Being the user responsible for /lit/ Post #16744544.'

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:09:15 2020 No.16746980 >>16746404 Søyposting is the concession of the argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:09:31 2020 No.16746982 >>16745514 You're being a contrarian, but it still irked me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:10:34 2020 No.16746991 >>16745647 This. All is forgiven if you are being serious about the forgiveness. No forgiveness or search for it, will leave you meaningless and hollow.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:14:24 2020 No.16747011
File: 186 KB, 747x620, pas me vat shoota.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>16744452
Boethius answered the 'problem of evil' convincingly in 'The Consolation of Philosophy,' but of course no one reads so we have to have the same conversation 1500 years later.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:15:26 2020 No.16747020 >>16745291 Exist, you absolute scumbag.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:18:56 2020 No.16747041 File: 8 KB, 250x240, 1591294317562.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] how do I become abled enough to participate in /lit/ discussions like this thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:20:13 2020 No.16747052 >>16746971 Don't be facetious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:20:32 2020 No.16747055 >>16746970 relax jew amerimutt, we won't even talk about your country

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:21:16 2020 No.16747062 >>16747041 Read a book. Apart yourself from base human wants, and find what you truly NEED.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:21:46 2020 No.16747069 >>16747041 make sure to watch the entire church militant catalog and build up a formidable arsenal of wojaks

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:22:57 2020 No.16747075 >>16747041 This discussion does not have any depth to it. Just phrases picked up in class being flung around.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:23:59 2020 No.16747083 >>16747041 First step: Don't be an anglo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:24:49 2020 No.16747090 >>16746881 >what about these other other things that dont move by themselves? Such as?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:29:35 2020 No.16747124

>>16746930
the whole thing points to actualization and potentiality, things that dont move but moves, the ones that move and moves and the ones that moves and solely moved upon, which again lead to things that are changeable and unchangeable, etc.
all this is in soul, intelligence, consciousness, whatever you want to call it my friend. but yeah for your answers you cant be persuaded by nothing but what you want to believe. i cant help you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:31:02 2020 No.16747136 >>16747083 Don't lump Amerimutts with the British.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:31:16 2020 No.16747139 >>16747124 >>16746930 > the ones that move and move others and the ones that are moved and solely moved upon,*

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:32:18 2020 No.16747144 >>16747090 such as what you said, do you know how to read?

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:34:09 2020 No.16747164

Christianity's mistake was in the doctrine that declares humans separate from the One. Spinoza proved that the notion of God as a person is absurd, that God has no choice but to be anything other than what he is, and cannot will things into being other than what they are. To think that God is a person is to limit him to the finite, but that contradicts the very definition of God as infinite being. Once you accept that God is not a person who is separate from you and "wants" to bring reality to a state of perfection, everything makes so much more sense and the problem of evil disappears.

We cannot deny the reality of suffering, but two things are true:
1. Suffering is of finite duration. Every finite thing will die and return to the blessed calm of nonexistence, as Schopenhauer put it.
2. When we recognize ourselves for what we really are, finite beings living in the infinite mind of God, we become enlightened and cease to do evil towards one another. This can happen on a purely intellectual level as well as spiritual.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 17:34:28 2020 No.16747167 >>16747052 Sure, if you won't be a faggot.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 18:52:37 2020 No.16747815

>>16746508
>hes NAMECALLING
go back to fourth grade
i dont speak like this outside of this shithole
its just the culture
>>16746776
ah i see
you really havent read the bible
tell me when you get past the fall of man and the burning of the garden of eden, shouldnt take you too long

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 19:00:00 2020 No.16747851 >>16744884 Is he bound to the rules that he gives humans? The ones that are ostensibly a guideline to moral goodness?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 19:03:13 2020 No.16747867 >>16747815 yeah, in the bible it says one thing, but you say both (that it is and became evil), can you decide yourself?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 20:23:46 2020 No.16748326 >>16747867 no you dont have freewil

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 21:42:30 2020 No.16748743

>>16744452
To be fair, I'm not Christian, so I don't really have a horse in this race, but I always thought that Tolkien put it well. The initial disharmony in the great song was created by one entity (Melkor) who believed themselves greater than their own purpose, so he created a sort of discord in the song. Eru Iluvatar, in stead of simply removing Melkor and returning to the harmony of the song, decided to incorporate the disharmony and create something greater than before. This dogma is then echoed throughout the whole story, and I personally think it is the greatest reason for the existence of evil in a Christian mindset. Overcoming evil is far more powerful and virtuous than being born into a world of pure virtue, and so evil must exist to be overcome. It's like how you can't have a race without a finish line. We are born into an unfair world to overcome it and become virtuous in spite of the world around us, rather than because of it, and for that reason, I think Tolkien is a really good answer to this quandry

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 21:47:38 2020 No.16748766 >>16745592 Kek.Jung is a brainlet. Read Aquinas commentary on Job instead.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 21:49:21 2020 No.16748779 File: 47 KB, 470x652, smiling wagner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16745264 Based.

Anonymous Mon Nov 9 21:53:35 2020 No.16748799

>>16744452
In theocracy class I was told that evil is the lack of God in that evil acts are those which lack God's input in conceiving as a part of our world. God is aware of everything but is by nature a being of creation and love. Anything that is counter to that nature pushes people away from God and makes them less Godlike thus tainting them. Eventually you become so incompatible with God that you are no longer able to rejoin the creator upon death and instead are doomed to join those who are more like you in the dark place. Priest I talked to didn't believe there was a constructed hell so much as you choosing to become something outright evil by ultimately placing yourself before all else and refusing to accept the order of the universe. Was very different from what I was taught by my parents but fit me better personally.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 9 22:57:16 2020 No.16749132 >>16744875 Imagine the Schopenhauer was as popular as Buddhism. We would live in a better world. Schopenhauer is combines all the good things of religion without being a religion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 02:07:07 2020 No.16749893 >>16747164 >humans separate from the One. But this is not stated in the Bible >non existence >in Christianity What

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 02:13:53 2020 No.16749918 nearly 300 replies and only one person has mentioned St. Augustine

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 02:19:47 2020 No.16749946 Wow you NERDS gotta utiliza your cock sucking languange for everything huh? Well if lil ol billy decides to comit a holocaust on winter then he is bad, period.

Anonymous Tue Nov 10 02:40:40 2020 No.16750033

>>16747052
>>16744544
If you get emotional enough to kill someone over a word you can't even define and neither can the hundreds of other people who have used it for a hundred years as little more than a slur, then you are a retard and a menace to humanity. Literally brainwashed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 02:44:52 2020 No.16750049 >>16744540 >She wanted a BBC instead. Bros why are Japs so racist?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 02:50:32 2020 No.16750070 If you think the existence of pain is proof of evil then you are spiritually feminine

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 04:21:25 2020 No.16750349 >>16744452 Ah yes, I love Plastic Love too

Anonymous Tue Nov 10 04:38:24 2020 No.16750393

>>16745098
You’re a dumb faggot that thinks exercise is evil because pushing yourself is “painful”.
Here’s the problem of evil:
If an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent god existed I could exercise without getting a blister.
I got a blister.
Therefore god doesn’t exist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 05:36:31 2020 No.16750552 >>16745337 And?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 05:44:54 2020 No.16750588 >>16744858 holy cringe

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 07:25:46 2020 No.16750917 >>16744849 I wished I could save her in some sort of time machine.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 08:55:07 2020 No.16751306 >>16750917 ARE YOU RECORDING MEEEEEEE

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 10 09:01:27 2020 No.16751341 >>16744540 Goddamn her friends and family were such cowards japs man I swear

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/lit/ - Literature