I've dropped out of my PhD in philosophy. Holy fuck how did I waste my time with this shit? What should I do next, bros? Did any of you go the academic route in the humanities and saw how crazy it is?

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Anonymous Thu Nov 5 15:22:54 2020 No.16719493 [Reply] [Original]

I've dropped out of my PhD in philosophy. Holy fuck how did I waste my time with this shit? What should I do next, bros? Did any of you go the academic route in the humanities and saw how crazy it is?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 15:28:37 2020 No.16719546 >>16719493 Tell us more. How crazy is it? Which country?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 15:34:10 2020 No.16719577 >>16719493 i got a Ph.D. in linguistics... finish it fag, maybe you'll not find the job you want but your virtually never to be unemployed

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 15:35:13 2020 No.16719584 >>16719577 how does a phd in phil guarantee constant employment

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 15:41:50 2020 No.16719609

>>16719546
I'm not from Germany, but I was doing my PhD at Frankfurt (Philosophy of Law). When I talk about craziness I merely talk about the insanity of throwing one's life away at this useless subject. Don't get me wrong, I won't stop reading philosophical texts, but the contemporary scene is entirely crazy. You have to subspecialize, as if philosophy were a scientific subject, and you can only publish in your narrowly defined area. I focused on deontological commitments and positivistic normativity. Colleagues in the philosophy department were also pretty sad with their outlook, they were all writing about some weird position in metaethics, intuitionist logic, etc. You have to cite dozens of articles in your paper, they all have to be from the last 5 years or else you're called "outdated". And all this for what? For a useless subject outside of academia, currently suffering from a (rightful) dwindling number of students. You study philosophy in order to become a professor, and you teach people who want to be professors. The state of academic philosophy is crazy.

>>16719577
lol wrong

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 15:45:21 2020 No.16719626 >>16719609 That sounds like a nightmare. You did the right thing anon. What do you plan to do with your life now?

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 15:55:25 2020 No.16719690

>>16719493
The whole discipline has been reduced to absurdity. Attending conferences broke my back, it's a bizarre game of play pretend where academics present and discuss absolutely irrelevant, garbage papers whose sole purpose is to fulfil some quota. I don't know how anyone sane could possibly have the stomach for taking part in such a vile circus. Philosophy shall either abandon the academia or perish.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 15:59:38 2020 No.16719724 >>16719609 >>16719690 Holy shit But what should be purpose of academia?

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:01:29 2020 No.16719738

>>16719609
What's wrong with Germany? It's much more chill in France. In France, the selection to get the "aggrégation" allowing you to teach in universit is hell, and almost no one gets it, but if you have it and you have a good thesis, a few papers, you can more or less focus on researching in a more personal way and you don't have as much of a publish or perish mentality. I wonder if we're special there or if it's Germany that's particularly integrated with the Anglo-international system to the point where there's no breathing space anymore.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:10:32 2020 No.16719799 >>16719738 Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden and Norway are all integrated to the Eternal Anglo. I wish I were joking.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:11:32 2020 No.16719808 >>16719609 >you can only publish in your narrowly defined area the point of a PhD, THANK tha tha thank you anon

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:22:02 2020 No.16719905

I have an interview for a doctoral position in philosophy next week. I do ancient philosophy, focusing on Aristotle's virtue ethics, and i actually love reading narrow papers, attending conferences and hanging out at the classics department with the Homer loving Hellenists. If i get the job i can spend four years doing what i enjoy the most at least. It is what comes next that scares me, how to survive in academia guys?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:25:35 2020 No.16719924 >>16719905 So you're asking for "If A occurs then B occurs", future positivism?, how would anyone on earth assist you when the experiences coming your way are entirely different, no one true answer anon, Good luck on your endeavours

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:33:36 2020 No.16719989 >>16719577 Seconding that other reply. I have a PhD in English and outside of academia, I have no idea how to find jobs.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:37:02 2020 No.16720015 study something concrete and with actual bearing on the real world, like math. Combine it with a science field of your choice. Philosophy and it's study is largely a pseuds errand

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:37:43 2020 No.16720018 >>16719989 Then what you do for a living?

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:39:54 2020 No.16720033

Hmmmmmmm.Since you used witty as a pfp, I'll give my 99% uneducated opinioin. I feel like academic philosophy for the most part is just a strange language game, where people shuffle words around in patters based on agreed upon rules as to which words go where, but where the word have no language-external meaning, and where most academic philosohpers, have zero aspirations of transcending that. I also think almost all so-called metaphysical problems, while not being invalid, have so many epistemic barriers to being communicated, that it's only up to each individual subject to figure it out for themselves. Ie, reading books and papers about metaphysics is not useful as a way to get arguments that you evaluate rationally. They only work to give you some ideas you maybe can use meaningfully. I think the tractatus is a great example of this, and wittgenstein pretty much sums up the position in the intro. Essentially him self-publishing an introspective diary.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:42:33 2020 No.16720051 >>16719808 No, fuck you. Look at what people did back in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:42:50 2020 No.16720056 >>16720018 I've been scraping by with some adjuncting, but it's not long-term viable.

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:54:25 2020 No.16720121

>>16720056
You should consider transitioning into technical writing/community management while you learn another skill. There are several technical writing jobs available now, use LinkedIn to find them. I wish you good luck, Anon. I was in your situation a couple of years ago (I'm 29yo now) and was able to overcome the hurdle. If you've gotten your phd in the last year, consider applying to a consultancy role at PwC, Deloitte, McKinsey, KPMG, EY etc.

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:55:24 2020 No.16720127

>>16719493

Would it help to enter into acedemia and think of it as not an end in itself? I am moving toward that path (although I have many backup plans) and, no matter how bad I hear it is, it seems to me the price if pesuing what I love. I need to talk to the experts and know the contemporary scene-- how else could that be accomplished? That crap seems to be the price of being a philosopher.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 16:58:42 2020 No.16720151 >>16720121 Thanks, Anon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:00:40 2020 No.16720164 >>16719493 >spends years learning how to "reason" >can't even understand his own motivations or make an independent decision Nice

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:01:22 2020 No.16720168 >>16719799 Very sad...

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:01:22 2020 No.16720169

>>16720127
How old are you? I'm assuming you're like 21 or 22. If you absolutely MUST get into philosophy, only go if you receive funding and a sizeable stipend. Have a backup plan, and that doesn't mean just dreaming about what you can do in the future. Acquire actual skills, I recommend SQL and basic python for data analysis. If you didn't go to a good school for your bachelor's, don't fall for the master's meme. DO NOT PAY TO STUDY PHILOSOPHY FOR YOUR MASTER'S. If you didn't go to a good college you won't get into any of the Leiter Report top 20 schools. Consider going to Europe, preferably Sweden or Denmark. Good luck, and think this shit through. Don't do a PhD in philosophy if "you like to think", only do it if you can see yourself talking about metaphysical tropes or some other bullshit for 30+ years.

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:10:28 2020 No.16720216

>>16719690
But where would philosophy go? It's worrying to me to see such an interesting subject reduced to boring and esoteric papers and studies which only serve to fund the academic departments that they are a part of. Personally I think that philosophy should be better integrated as its own subject in high school rather than being only just mentioned in english and history classes.

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:13:23 2020 No.16720233

>>16720169
Thank you for your reply. As we speak I am in fact doing some (stupidly basic) data analysis with python, so that's pretty good. But my solid backup is being a high school physics teacher. It's very grounded and all I need is a masters in teaching. But unfortunatly I do go to a crappy college right now. I hear you about the stipend; my current plan is to make friends with some faculty in Stanford or Berkley. Perhaps nepotism can work for me. But why do you mention Sweden and Denmark specifically? I've interrogated a few people about good programs but those two countries never came up. (but to be honest there are no possible worlds where I can convince my fiance to move to Europe. She's been on the move her whole life and wants to stay put with me.)

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:17:09 2020 No.16720247 >>16720216 That's still sad, though.

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:23:22 2020 No.16720274

>>16720233
>my current plan is to make friends with some faculty in Stanford or Berkley
Anon, I need to tell you something very serious. You will not make friends with any of these people as they will either ignore you promptly or give you minimal attention and ignore you. By all means, send your e-mails and stuff, but don't expect much. If you do not go to a good school, you will ____NOT____ get into a top 20 program. It's literally impossible unless you're the new Kripke and this fact can be extracted from your writing sample. It seems you're very young and don't know the philosophical establishment, if that's the case (sorry for assuming but you didn't give me your age) I urge you to read this ranking: https://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/overall-ranking/ and reading this other link: https://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/applying-to-graduate-schools/

Philosophy in the US is based on paper: if you go to a prestigious program, you'll teach at a mediocre one, if you go to a mediocre program, you'll be unemployed. You won't enter a top 20 program, please take this in consideration.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:31:26 2020 No.16720310 I'm an undergrad rn doing phil of physics hoping to get into rutgers... is it really that bad? It seems that quite a few schools are into interdisciplinary shit rn, can you really only publish in your subspecialization??

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:32:48 2020 No.16720313 >>16720274 man I hate Leiter so much. I started to get my MA in phil and dropped out. I now work as an engineer. sorry boys but STEM gets the jobs (and not the girls)

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:33:47 2020 No.16720315

>>16720274

I believe you and I will need your warnings. You're right that I'm young, and I won't stop until I bleed. But I will promise you that if I don't get into one of the top 20 programs, i will quit philosophy. But you have to understand that I must try.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:34:53 2020 No.16720319 >>16720315 It's fine, man. Why dou you like philosophy so much, if I may ask? What have you been reading? Maybe I can offer you some recs and pointers.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 17:36:16 2020 No.16720325 >>16720313 Yeah, Leiter is full of shit but his ranking is taken seriously. It's a damn shame.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 18:05:07 2020 No.16720447 >>16720164 how will philosophybros ever recover

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 18:31:13 2020 No.16720577

>>16720315
>I will promise you that if I don't get into one of the top 20 programs, i will quit philosophy.
Your attitude is as anti-philosophical as it gets which implies the paradoxically reasonable assumption that you might as well succeed in the contemporary academia!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 18:37:48 2020 No.16720601 I'm writing a philosophy book for fun. The bibliography probably has 100+ citations. It may never see the light of day but it's better than 95% of what these hacks put out.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 18:42:18 2020 No.16720619 >>16719493 The military is waiting anon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 19:50:09 2020 No.16720912 >>16720619 I'm going to law school lmao

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 19:59:25 2020 No.16720952 >>16719493 >another victim of the humanities Should’ve went the STEM route, kiddo

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:03:11 2020 No.16720965 >>16720056 >>16720121 Yeah, start freelancing. Buy a web domain and make a Wordpress site to act as a portfolio. Copywriters can make real good money. t. copywriter for a year now with no degree

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:03:12 2020 No.16720966
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>>16719493

A few years ago I dropped from a philosophy phd in a top-10 program in the US. (I was "abd") I spent a year getting into software engineering and have zero regrets (as well as a great job).

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:04:09 2020 No.16720972 >>16720966 Age? Which languages did you learn?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:09:24 2020 No.16720990 >>16720601 Share it on Mega pls

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:10:08 2020 No.16720992 >>16720972 I'm now in my 40s. Modern C++

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:13:07 2020 No.16721008 >>16720965 Should I make the page more of a personal website or invent a company brand?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:19:11 2020 No.16721044 >>16720992 there are still c++ jobs out there? I thought everything was on the web nowadays

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:41:12 2020 No.16721152 >>16719493 Lol filtered

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:48:13 2020 No.16721179 >>16719493 Join me in inpatient psychiatry. All the fun of psychiatry with none of the "do these people really need my help or should they just get the fuck over themselves"

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:54:18 2020 No.16721198 >>16721044 There are lots of C++ jobs, and will be for a long time. It's the backbone of pretty much everything (except the Linux kernel).

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:55:26 2020 No.16721207 >>16721179 Isn't it depressing seeing all of the "just get the fuck over themselves cases" wind up inpatient because of years of needless medication?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 20:56:29 2020 No.16721215 >>16719493 You should've finished it. You went that far—having a phd lets you mog with your credentials alone. You get to be called Dr.

Anonymous Thu Nov 5 21:19:56 2020 No.16721330
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I'm sorry anon, I was in a similar situation once. I think you should also be happy that you got out early. Academic philosophy is probably as soul-sucking as it gets, since the reality of meticulously citing papers and hyper specializing is so far from the romantic and grand ideas which get most people interested in philosophy.
Many phil professors that I have talked to or worked under (from university of michigan) have told me that they understand this feeling, but they got so far that they cant really turn back. There are many who do enjoy academic type philosophy but ususally these people have a very exacting personality which enjoys the specialization.
Get a job that pays money. Do something that you want to do. philosophy is something that is far too large to be confined to peer reviewed journals. I felt that as I moved away from academic philosophy, I was able to appreciate philosophy more, and the philosophies which I read had much more concrete impact on my thoughts and actions. I was able to stop thinking about how one author fit within the context of the philosophical tradition, or artificial arguments that were much more mental sport than philosophy.

Hopefully you have other skills. If not, then learn CS. There are are unique angles which you can get with your philosophy degree. For instance, learn basic coding and then learn some artificial intelligence. This field is quite murky and so they are more interested in hiring interdisciplinary people (for instance, AI ethicists) than more straighforward fields like web design.

>>16720601
share pls

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 22:53:21 2020 No.16721704 >>16721207 Straight up not how it works. It's good fun, schizos and catatonic depressives improve a lot with proper management. Nowhere else in medicine do you see that kind of leap. Maybe acute stroke care or something.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 23:03:04 2020 No.16721752 >>16721207 Anyway, it's like applied philosophy. Power is never more obviously exerted than in the psychiatric setting.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 23:04:12 2020 No.16721759 >>16719493 Take up a trade and do something useful

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 23:04:37 2020 No.16721762 File: 31 KB, 400x400, WKgBcrEL_400x400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Gave up on school? Good.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 23:20:58 2020 No.16721821 >>16719493 >>>/adv/ It's amazing that people who can't even tell the term "literature" from "my personal life" are on a literature board.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 5 23:49:36 2020 No.16721939 >>16720051 What do you mean?

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 00:15:58 2020 No.16722070

>>16720319
Sorry for the late reply; I had an assignment due at midnight. It's hard to say why I like it so much. Dynamics of Reason by Micheal Friedman has been occupying my thought recently. I am also very compelled by Quine, although I know I can't appreciate all the intricacies of his arguments. But I am seriosuly sheltered from contemporary philosophy and I have had some diffuclty breaking through. Broadly, I would say my interests are in understanding how we make sense of the world in all its complexity.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 00:19:22 2020 No.16722081 >>16720912 The military is waiting t. quite law school for military because the pay and job security are better when debt is accounted for

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 00:43:28 2020 No.16722179 >>16719493 Philosophy is gay. Good riddance for you. Too many worthless philosophy books take space up in my library. Only 2 or 3 do I actually care for.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:10:22 2020 No.16722548 >>16721198 >There are lots of C++ jobs, and will be for a long time. Not necessarily a good thing if you're speaking in terms of investment and prospects.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:14:52 2020 No.16722562

tldr; what should a diet autist do after studying philosophy?

Shit. Currently studying a BA on philosophy/social sciences and been loving it thus far. Not planning on dropping out although I’m not sure what to do next, would really like specializing on either rationalism, or a branch of metaphysics or ontology, but learning about academic life makes me doubt, also add the fact I live in a third world country which only has like two decent programs (the one I’m at is not bad, just kinda bland) so going to Europe would be the best course of action. Anyways, I do have the option of studying another career, but I’m the type that’s always daydreaming, is only able to think in abstractions and gets easily distracted, so it’s kinda hard finding something else I enjoy. What should I do?

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:18:13 2020 No.16722567

>>16721330
>"Academia is so soul-sucking guys!"
>"So you should be a good bugman and get into computer science instead"
I don't understand this meme. Is it because Computer Science is a field that underachievers can do well in because of how much time they excessively spend on their computers in the first place? Obviously it's not nearly as respectable nor challenging as hard sciences. The pay? Average. Job openings? Sure, but Indians will easily oversaturate your market in the foreseeable future.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:20:11 2020 No.16722570 >>16721759 >trades t. naive 50 year old

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:25:28 2020 No.16722585

>>16719609
Most of your post sounds as if you shad the wrong expectations. My frown lines rippled violently when you complained about having to quote "dozens of articles" that must be up to date. Are you annoyed that scientific standards are applied to philosophy?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:26:57 2020 No.16722588 Imagine wasting your time getting a college degree to get a "good job" at all >NOOOO I HAVE TO PAY THE HECKIN' ELECTRICITY BILLS NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:36:08 2020 No.16722608 >>16722567 Not the anon you responded to, but computer science comes very naturally to people who have studied advanced philosophy. It's like child's play especially if you have done some work on logic.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:37:22 2020 No.16722612 >>16722608 >but computer science comes very naturally to people who have studied advanced philosophy. I was under the assumption CS guys were /v/ and /g/ not /lit/

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:41:49 2020 No.16722630

>>16722562
I don't know either. I'm doing philosophy/Greek classics in Europe, so I'm kind of thinking it won't be as bad for me if I specialize in Ancient philosophy, since specializing in an obscure ancient author seems very of comfy and even noble compared to contemporary rat race.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:44:38 2020 No.16722637 >>16722612 CS is just applied logic. You write logical procedures for the computer to follow. In a way, it's very similar to constructing proofs.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 02:54:15 2020 No.16722659 >literature board >no one wants to get into professional writing which actually does have demand everywhere

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 03:00:38 2020 No.16722680
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>>16722567
I think that I understand this viewpoint so I will try to explain. I have a master's degree in math and decided not to go to graduate school to pursue a PhD, and instead work in industry.

In academia, the reason that it may have felt soul sucking is because it is very personal and it is much more than a job. In academia, you are taking something you love and harnessing it as your career. If one's love of philosophy is direclty antithetical to the work that one does in philosophy (citing papers, specializing, etc), then one can feel that it is particularly hurtful since it is one's passion. In contrast, it is clear to most people that CS is a job like any other job, so the expectation is different, and the things that one is interested in remain unsullied.

Anothe reason which was that it was very disheartening to see the future careers of people who studied pure subjects in academia, in my case, math. Mediocre graduate students (at a top university) who were still very talented and hard working were relegated to teaching for a low salaries at small local colleges. It is a particularly disheartening shift to go from working with very advanced math at the cutting edge of your field to repeatedly teaching kids calculus and linear algebra. Academia feels very much like a winner take all game. If you are not at the top of your undergraduate class, you wont get into top graduate programs. If you are not the best in your graduate cohort, you won't get good postdoc positions / professorships. In the end, most people leave academia for this reason. The reason that academia can be soul crushing is the fact that a love of knowledge and natural curiosity is crushed in this way by the great machine.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 03:26:06 2020 No.16722750

Since maybe one of you would know. How hard would it be to become an academic later in life? It’s something I’d like to do, but barring some sort of major educational reform/student loan forgiveness, there’s I way I’ll be able to afford to return to school until I’m in my latte 30s.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 03:29:10 2020 No.16722761 >>16722585 >Are you annoyed that scientific standards are applied to philosophy? Any non-bugman should be.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 03:31:28 2020 No.16722768 File: 8 KB, 56x56, 232.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16722761 Ok, Übermensch.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 04:52:52 2020 No.16723031 File: 71 KB, 912x1024, 48fwwztmk3c41.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Came to these conclusions in first semester of phil degree >Already got most of the philosophical canon under my belt in hs years >Switch to finance instead Life is good

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:08:35 2020 No.16723072 >>16720966 Cringe larping stemfags shitting up the thread as always, gtfo pls

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:12:59 2020 No.16723088

>>16719493
Polish PhD candidate in Literature Studies here. Shit is absolutely dope, I get cash for doing fuck-all in (((practical))) terms, maintaining my research and participating in some pretty cool classes. The path to post-doc and eventually teaching is pretty straightforward. Up until this month I also worked a side job in a smallish bookshop (now closed due to pandemic), which was comfy af, let me do a lot of reading and combined with my scholarship provided more money than I could reasonably spend.

Thanks for reading my blog.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:15:15 2020 No.16723095

It seems like LARPing, but anonymous internet boards seem like a good way to revive philosophy. No credentialism, unlimited discussion 24/7, no financial component. I actually think we should create a restricted board like sometimes suggested here. I unironically learned a lot from some effort posts about Plotinus, Kant etc. on here.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:19:10 2020 No.16723103 >>16720952 This. If you are European go for STEM or med.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:20:40 2020 No.16723109 >>16723103 >Go for Science, Technology, Engineering, Medicine or medicine

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:20:58 2020 No.16723111 >>16723095 Same. The pendulum between cocksuckery and effortposting on this boar is off-putting at times. However, I learned a lot in yesterdy's thread on Gnosticism for example.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:28:28 2020 No.16723135

>>16723095
This complete openness and anonymity is also why a lot of posts are shit. If we want to do that, we need to introduce a sort of ranking in which good effortposters are recognized. Otherwise, you would always be on equal grounds with any retard regardless of how much effort you put it, which is discouraging.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:31:13 2020 No.16723144 >>16723135 Excellent idea. Maybe people who get their posts upvoted can get more good reputation

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:33:11 2020 No.16723151 >>16719609 Schopenhauer spoke of the ills of academic philosophy almost 200 years ago

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:33:28 2020 No.16723153 >>16723095 the 00s blogosphere was close to this

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:33:41 2020 No.16723154 >>16723144 Lmao no thank you. I was thinking more like introducing a sort of badge for frequent effort posters.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:35:34 2020 No.16723162 >>16723031 I study finance and it's filled with the biggest bugmen on the face of this earth

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:36:36 2020 No.16723165 >>16723135 The site would just turn into Reddit

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:37:59 2020 No.16723172 >>16723135 Should have little gold stars and diamonds to put on these posts as well?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:38:38 2020 No.16723174 >>16723162 Literally all you have to do is harness your autism and you'll outdo 99% of the NPCs in your field.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:48:05 2020 No.16723203 >>16723174 Kek, gonna be a lawyer hopefully anyway. More /lit/ career

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:52:01 2020 No.16723214
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>>16723109
>Science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM), previously science, mathematics, engineering, and technology (SMET),[1] is a broad term used to group together these academic disciplines.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:53:04 2020 No.16723217 >>16723214 >SMET lmao this is a much more fitting word

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:53:10 2020 No.16723218 >>16723203 Thought about it, but law seems to bureaucratic imo. Goal is to live an autonomous lifestyle. Seems like an edge to have when the usual crow appears to just want to be able to lease a BMW

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:54:35 2020 No.16723222 >>16723218 *kek, new keyboard, sorry.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 05:57:50 2020 No.16723228

>>16723218
I don't disagree. For me, a job is a means to an end. What I cherish is the ability to immerse in myself in aesthetic experience through reading and on occasion, writing. Nevertheless, I find the law to be a lot more cerebral than other white collar fields, especially in something litigious. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from a tightly woven argument or pleading.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 06:16:37 2020 No.16723295 File: 65 KB, 369x369, 1597954618202.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16723228 Based anon, based.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 06:38:45 2020 No.16723355 >>16719905 i hope you're not a white male or you're 169% fucked even if you spend every waking moment kissing the feet of the transgender blacks.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 06:49:11 2020 No.16723373 Become a chef?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 06:54:13 2020 No.16723386 >>16723154 Yes reddit gold

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 07:08:48 2020 No.16723430 >tfw peer pressured into STEM shit >always wondered how life is on the other side Come here bros, even if you're not that math oriented anyone can become some kinda technician and scrape by on an ok-ish salary

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 07:26:24 2020 No.16723486

Academic philosophy will have to bite the bullet and accept that the only chance for it to become more than a self masturbating circle jerk and become relevant again is to give up its scientific self-proclaimed standards and exchange it for the new position of philosophy as an art.

Now hold up, I already hear you say that in that case philosophy would become completely arbitrary and more of a joke than it is today. Fact is however, people already regard it as arbitrary and a joke. The only chance for it to redeem itself is to overcompensate aka presenting itself as art. The point is simply that it could still be an autistically precise analysis of terms and whatever subject, but the very Form of philosophical investigation would be included in the substance of what has been said - which is a quality of art, not of science where the Form should have no impact and is nothing but necessity.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 07:31:19 2020 No.16723503 >>16719493 >>16719609 >>16719690 How do I convince my sister to study something else. She Is stubborn and doesn't know what she's getting into.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 07:31:57 2020 No.16723504

>>16723430
lmao not in academia, it's even worse there because there are people who can make actual profit from research, meaning they want a lot of competition with high output, the humanities just adopted it from STEM because the people who run the institutions and don't understand the fields now have some deluded aesthetic idea of academic standards and progress. Academic papers all read and feel the same, regardless of the field, robotic products of machines.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 07:36:19 2020 No.16723519

>>16723486
dude, my manic delusion of a life goal is actually reviving the synthesis of poetry and philosophy (something like Parmenides or Goethe). The two are linked together, but with the decline of poetry, philosophy has kind of lost its grounding and outline.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 07:46:33 2020 No.16723561

>>16723519
I like the idea. However, I'm afraid that philosophers today are dependent on the academic circle jerk, they actually promote it because it makes their life's easy. They do not care about their public reputation as long as they keep their institutional privileges and publish for money (the second is insane to me, they publish expensive articles only read by other participants of the institution, no phil selfinterested guy on /lit/ would start with said articles).
That doesn't mean your idea is hopeless. But you will have to play along the rules.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 07:50:41 2020 No.16723578

>>16723561
Not him, but philosophy doesn't have to be entirely academic. Think about 19th century Germany. Schopenhauer thought academics are circling jerking themselves on nonsense, so he got out and did his own thing. A few decades later, Nietzsche did exactly the same. It does require genius, obviously, but I think in those rare cases it is possible to do revolutionary philosophy out of academia.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 08:02:37 2020 No.16723616 >>16719905 Write an essay about all the strong black women in Homer's works. If you don't find any, propose the thesis that Homer himself was neither one isolated poet, nor a group of poets, but rather a strong black lesbian couple himself.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 08:09:24 2020 No.16723639 >>16723561 this obviously excludes trying to market the idea to the academic consensus, that's why I wrote delusion. It's gonna have to be an intellectual counter culture like the Wagner/Nietzsche Leipzig days.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 09:16:48 2020 No.16723812

I double majored in molecular biology and philosophy. At first my goal was to go to med school. I scribed for a bunch of doctors of various specialties, and every single one told me it was a mistake. Not a single one of roughly 30 told me they were happy with their decision to become physicians - nearly all of them were divorced, out of shape, and generally miserable.
So then I doubled down on philosophy, started entering some essay contests and things like that. I really spending every waking second reading, thinking about, or listening to philosophy. Then I spoke to all the professors in my department, and again all of them told me it's only a good idea if I would be absolutely miserable doing anything else, and that as a white guy I would have a lot of trouble finding a job after grad school. Not trying to come off like a pompous asshole, but they all told me I had a real gift for philosophical writing, but it wouldn't be enough in the current state of the field.
All the interesting fields are fucked bros. I should've just listened to my dad and been a carpenter.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 09:27:13 2020 No.16723847 Glad I dropped the idea of education in humanities after high school. Forest sciences is much more relaxing and you can actually find a job.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 09:29:09 2020 No.16723855 >>16723812 >I should've just listened to my dad and been a carpenter. It's not too late

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 09:39:01 2020 No.16723887

>>16723578
>>16723639
It takes the genius and also you must be ready to sacrifice everything. Nietzsche's biography is a good example of this, Schopenhauer as well was disregarded at his time. You have to accept that your efforts might only be acknowledged when you're dead. There aren't many out there who have it I them to go that path, most are stuck at mediocrity. I certainly don't have the balls. I grew comfy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 09:45:45 2020 No.16723915 >>16723486 This is what Rorty tried to do and Angloids killed him by upholding Kripke and Williamson as their heroes. There's no hope for philosophy under Anglo rule.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 10:30:03 2020 No.16724151 >>16723887 I don't know, I still have all the romantic pathos but I'm afraid I lack the genius. If I see a spark I'm going to commit myself to it though.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 10:40:24 2020 No.16724191
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>>16723503
I'm just some random anon but I think that if she is really that adamant about it, you should just let her do it. I assume you've already made a case for not going and she still wants to. Sometimes it's best to just let people see it for themselves.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 10:48:18 2020 No.16724228 >>16722612 there's no cs in /g/. if anything there's a few in /sci/

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 11:06:10 2020 No.16724315 >>16722680 I like this painting, who is the artist?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 11:07:25 2020 No.16724322 >>16724315 Learn to reverse image search, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 11:20:24 2020 No.16724389 File: 957 KB, 1428x1624, Screen Shot 2020-11-06 at 8.19.36 AM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16724322 Already did, that's why I asked friend.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 11:31:07 2020 No.16724456 >>16724389 It's The Dog by Goya. GOD.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 11:32:30 2020 No.16724463 What you gonna do for a living? What do others here do to pay the bills?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 11:35:49 2020 No.16724476 >>16724151 Good luck.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 14:02:17 2020 No.16725363 >>16720577 And I laughed and ejaculated to your post. Thanks, Anon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 14:03:03 2020 No.16725365 >>16724463 Civil servant, hoping to get a better position soon desu

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 14:16:22 2020 No.16725435 >>16720233 i don't know why people are being so nice to you. you have to hear it plainly that you're completely divorced from reality and following the weird path you've set out for yourself will lead you into ruin.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 14:24:05 2020 No.16725469 Amor fati guys

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 14:30:45 2020 No.16725495 >>16722570 more like t. successful 25 year old

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 15:43:11 2020 No.16725924 >>16723519 You want to do this then write a philosophy book in verse like the Iliad or odyssey. Something along those lines. Otherwise

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 15:44:41 2020 No.16725932 >>16722637 He’s not wrong. Maths, science and philosophy share the same basic principles and dropping into CS is always a go to. A fun one too if you want to build games, websites, programs, etc.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 15:55:23 2020 No.16725981
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You're all dumb. With a PhD in Literature or Philosophy you can walk into a teaching job at a prestigious private school or boarding school heavy on tradition. The kids are somewhat competent, actually have some semblance of manners and respect, are aware their parents are paying thousands per term, and you get treated like royalty. Strolling around campus in teaching robes, hearing mottos in assemblies in Latin, everyone calls you doctor, plus plenty of time off during school holidays to publish. EZ.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 15:56:06 2020 No.16725985

>>16719724
Knowledge. The problem is the university, for about the last century and a half, hasn't been about aquiring knowledge, but instead about creating workers for a job. It is a slave factory. Universities used to be much more exclusive because their purpose was edification, but now many times students will come out of university even more confused about their subject of choice than they were coming in. This is as much a fault of the decline of the university as it is the modern "student". The "students", most of the time, do not want to know, and could care less about knowing. The only reason they are there is because it is mandatory to get a high-paying job in that field, and because of fear of the opinion of their parents. They clumsily rush past actually understanding things, work through rote memorization of material studied the night before, and then forget about it immediately after it stops pertaining to the weight of their grade. As past concepts are gradually built on by these ephemeral concepts they have dogmatically pressed into their own minds, those past concepts also start becoming alien, until they feel as if they know nothing. Finally, one day, they escape, get the paper that costed them 3 or more years of their life, then finally get accepted to be a worker somewhere.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:11:15 2020 No.16726067 >>16724191 Yes of course she can study whatever she wants. I'm just hoping she realizes sooner or later that it's not an easy path.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:13:01 2020 No.16726074 >>16725981 I too want to win the lottery

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:13:31 2020 No.16726077 >>16726067 If she marries a rich man, then she can study whatever meme degree she wants

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:14:31 2020 No.16726083 >>16725981 What you describe is exactly the waste of life I want to avoid.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:15:33 2020 No.16726087 >>16725435 Yeah, that guy will crash and burn so hard he will become an alcoholic.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:16:05 2020 No.16726090

>>16719493
Yeah, I had a somewhat similar experience with my lit studies at the end. Was half a memoire away from getting my master but couldn't be bothered to stay any longer in this bubble of unending wanking.

As you said, keep reading, keep what you learnt, and then my advice would be to move on to something completely different that will fullfill you in different ways.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:18:57 2020 No.16726103 >>16722179 Name them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:20:46 2020 No.16726114 >>16723217 "SMET" means "trash" in Slovenian.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:39:32 2020 No.16726218 i got an ma in philosophy and got out of academia. currently in law school and it's actually pretty based

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:42:31 2020 No.16726234 as someone who went from STEM to philosophy recently this thread isn't nice to read.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:50:13 2020 No.16726278 >>16726234 Bro, undo it unless you got into a top 20 program.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:55:52 2020 No.16726305 >>16726234 Why would anyone willingly not do a stem degree? Your options are limitless while the best you can hope with a philosophy degree is to try to be a Jordan Peterson or Lindybeige. And even Jordan got a stem degree > t. stem degree

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 16:58:27 2020 No.16726316 File: 9 KB, 310x162, download (3).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16726305 >And even Jordan got a stem degree What?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:01:58 2020 No.16726332 >>16726316 He got a degree in clinical psychology. I suppose you can argue psychology is a social science

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:02:27 2020 No.16726335 >>16726332 And social science isn't STEM.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:07:13 2020 No.16726355 >>16726335 Personally, I would put clinical psychology under biology, which is stem. I'm also under the impression that Potatoson used to give therapy sessions to his patients before he figured out he could be a paternal self-help guru

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:15:17 2020 No.16726407 Get a cougar to pay your bills and you can study whatever you want.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:18:05 2020 No.16726425 >>16722585 >Are you annoyed that scientific standards are applied to philosophy? Do you realize how this sounds?

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:19:49 2020 No.16726435
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>>16719609
>intuitionist logic
based and future oriented

I got a PhD in physics theory some years ago, but I went into tech - which I'm not extremely proud of but I do as much academic reading and hanging out with the academic crowd as possible

>You have to cite dozens of articles in your paper, they all have to be from the last 5 years or else you're called "outdated"
yikes

>ou study philosophy in order to become a professor, and you teach people who want to be professors.
You also study to get pussy. And if you're an extrovert, you can get political

>>16719690
>Philosophy shall either abandon the academia
How would that look like?
There's some rogue people on youtube right now, but inevitably, for 1 person who likes them, 100 will call them cringe. And they also end up hustling - since unless you're Witty or some other rich kid, you have to have commercial appeal

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:24:13 2020 No.16726451
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>>16726074
Why does that mean winning the lottery?

>>16726083
And why is it a waste of life? What would NOT be a waste of life to you? Many great writers were teachers. Wittgenstein taught literal toddlers in a primary school.

The fact of the matter is, if you're going to achieve something great, you'll do so anyway. Having a PhD does not equal greatness or being remembered. I'm pursuing my PhD because I truly love my subject. I have had work experience in prestigious private schools before and are drawn to them not for any snobbish reason but because the students are generally much more pliable and willing to learn. I love English and my passion shows in my teaching. Sure, I have literary aspirations myself, I've had a few short stories published and I'm working on my first novel. But even if I don't achieve greatness as a writer, I will derive satisfaction from a life spent in obscurity, quietly reading and talking about books.

Most lives are obscure. That doesn't mean they're a waste. Read Stoner by John Williams, or Diary of a Country Priest by Bernanos.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:26:53 2020 No.16726466 >>16726451 >The fact of the matter is, if you're going to achieve something great, you'll do so anyway. ?

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:33:21 2020 No.16726503

>>16726103
Hegel is probably the worst one in my library. Kant sucks ass too. Deleuze and Guattari write gibberish. Locke is a fag. People who talk about transcendence or geist or meaning or power (in the "spiritual" sense) are fags. Most of the greeks are pretentious faggots except for maybe Seneca in his letters, and only in his letters. If you want to read the romans and the greeks read their fiction and their poetry because it holds infinitely more value than their gay debates. Caesar's comments on the Gaul War are alright. And I enjoy Georges Bataille's and Cioran's short essays and aphorisms. Not sure if Aesop would count as philosophy but it's probably got the highest philosophical value in my library.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:34:01 2020 No.16726507

>>16726466
The person I responded to balked at the suggestion of teaching as they perceived it as "a waste of a life". Presumably this is because they have higher literary aspirations. However, I believe that if someone has enough talent and drive then they will create worthwhile art regardless of what they are doing. From Chekhov writing while working as a Doctor, TS Eliot writing The Wasteland as a bank clerk, Nabokov writing as a professor, Proust being a failure and a shut-in; whatever your station in life, if you have the drive and the talent to create then you will succeed.

Regardless, if that person believes teaching in a prestigious high school is a waste of a life the I question their motives on attaining a PhD in the first place, since it is essentially a teaching qualification. University students in their late teens and early twenties studying at mediocre institutions are generally inferior to 17/18 year olds at schools with selective admissions. In the humanities and philosophy especially, if you don't want to teach, then pursuing a PhD is absolutely a waste of time.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:35:56 2020 No.16726518 File: 47 KB, 470x652, smilingwagner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Hey guys. Ion here. Suck my divinely inspired dick cya later NEEEEEEEEEEERDS

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:42:34 2020 No.16726548 >>16726507 I'm not disagreeing with your outlook. I was asking how to give meaning to the claim > if you're going to achieve something great, you'll do so anyway. which is either read as a tautology or as wishful thinking

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:45:07 2020 No.16726560

>>16726507
I don't know how the philosophy graduate system works, but in science, a PhD is a research qualification and bachelor's/master's degrees are for teaching. Additionalluly, teaching loads decrease as you get promoted. Adjuncts are 100% teaching, junior is 75% teaching 25% research, tenure track is 50/50, full professor is 25% teaching 75% research. Numbers may be different but you get the point

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:55:05 2020 No.16726609 >>16719493 How do I know if I am good at philosophizing? I feel like I am terrible and say stupid shit but others disagree. I can never think of any interesting and multi-layered questions, only summarize and further elucidate texts.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 17:58:28 2020 No.16726627
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>be stem dropout at 19
>decide to study something interesting this time
>go for philosophy major in frankfurt
>read this thread
fuck bros. why do you have to do me like this on a cool friday evening? This was my very first week and I was pretty excited to dive into the field until I've read this thread. Now I'm all pessimistic again... fuuuuck

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:02:26 2020 No.16726645 >>16726627 What do you guys study in undergrad at frankfurt? Is it mostly analytic phil, or critical theory and continental phil?

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:05:04 2020 No.16726660

>>16726548
Just my general belief. Ceteris parabus, quality emerges and is recognised, even if it's not in the writer's own lifetime (e.g. Melville)

>>16726560
I'm in the UK but I believe even in the US there is a greater expectation to teach in humanities subjects. Almost every English Literature professor will have to teach and PhD students function as teaching assistants. Eng Lit is saturated anyway but nobody wants to take the high school pill as they feel it's beneath them, which means that actually an Eng Lit PhD is very desirable in that job market. Certain private schools, Grammar schools, Catholic schools etc are a world away from inner city comprehensives with almost as much respect as academia with far lighter workloads and no pressure to publish. You get to do whatever projects you like whenever you feel like doing them, without fearing for your job.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:05:08 2020 No.16726661 >>16726503 Thank you. I liked when you made fun of Deleuze.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:09:00 2020 No.16726670 >>16726451 >Many great writers were teachers. Wittgenstein taught literal toddlers in a primary school. First, Wittgenstein was a horrible writer. Second, Wittgenstein only taught tottlers so the sexual sadist could be paid to beat children.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:09:04 2020 No.16726671
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>>16726627
Your problem is that you place too much value on the opinions of others. One day you will take your final breath and you'll die. That could be in a week, a month, or 50 years. What will you think? Maybe you'll be worried what comes next. Maybe you'll be stunned, think to yourself "shit, is this it, is it really happening?". Maybe you'll be asleep. But the end WILL come, for you and everyone else in this thread, and every single person in every Philosophy department right now.

Do what you find fulfilling. The most important thing is to live a moral life. Plato figured that out thousands of years ago.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:10:07 2020 No.16726680 >>16726670 Yet he's remembered. He achieved greatness. The person I responded to said teaching was a waste of a life, implying that it would prevent one from becoming great.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:14:02 2020 No.16726700 >>16726680 He didn't achieve any greatness, everything he produced is garbage and as he got older he got more and more confused until he just gave up on philosophy. The only reason he was remembered is because he was extremely wealthy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:15:13 2020 No.16726703 >>16719609 Having to cite other articles seems stupid what if your work is stand alone?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:15:48 2020 No.16726710 >>16726670 >First, Wittgenstein was a horrible writer. He wrote that way intentionally. In Culture and Value he praised Schopenhauer's clear style but then he said that would not work for his purposes.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:18:20 2020 No.16726723
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>>16726645
I'm currently going through two courses: introduction to philosophy and introduction to logic. The latter is messing with my brain a little bit but I'm sure it'll be okay.
>critical theory
I haven't looked into the whole program but I'd be surprised if that wasn't included given that adorno studied here (which they do proudly advertise with to some extent).
I've actually found a small discord server from my uni dedicated to this specifically where we read the theory and discuss. We're currently tackling kulturindustrie and we want to read one dimensional man next. very cool group of people.
I also have japanese studies as a minor but only because I missed the deadline for the more interesting minors. Will definitely change it to political science next semester. The weebs are just unbearable
>>16726671
yeah you're right. we're all gonna live a horrible life anyway given climate change and all that. I just hope that one day I'll be able to direct my own movies and do whatever fulfills me. I really do not desire the typical career ladder of a stemfag.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:20:02 2020 No.16726728 >>16726723 If you want to direct movies you should buy a camera and start now, and if you have any talent apply to good film schools.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:22:26 2020 No.16726736

>>16726700
You're being facetious. The point is that great writers and artists are inevitably recognised. It's a fact that is denied by amateurs who are insecure about their work and hate the idea of someone else having more innate talent than them. They want to believe they can be better than Shakespeare or Tolstoy by simply grinding.

Shakespeare himself is suspected to have been a teacher prior to becoming a full-time playwright, by the way. So was Joyce.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:23:32 2020 No.16726741 >>16726736 >great writers and artists are inevitably recognised Just because you know who Jackson Pollock is doesn't mean his art is any good.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:29:30 2020 No.16726764 >>16726741 Yet we've both heard of Michaelangelo.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:31:25 2020 No.16726776

>>16726703
That's literally impossible in the given climate. Citing articles is fine, it's very hard to write about any contemporary topic and not make reference to other people anyway. What I talk about is taking time out of your schedule to cite for the sake of citing, to simply tick a box in your current circlejerk of quotation. If you download any article from a major journal it's a fucking hassle to get through due to the spiralling number of footnotes and whatnot.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:32:56 2020 No.16726780 >>16726776 Wdym how is it impossible to make an original argument?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:34:45 2020 No.16726786 >>16723154 Those posters would get shit on more than butterfly. Rewarding high level posters in this way will make them irrelevent hated and mocked ultra faggots.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:36:33 2020 No.16726794

>>16726728
I've actually thought about going to a film school after philosophy, but I'm not 100% sure since most of them are privatized and therefore pretty expensive and they also don't give you a much better chance at entering the field.
There was actually a study done in america which showed that only 5% of film school graduates actually work in the field after three years (and working "in the field" can also mean being the cheap jannie that makes coffee for the crew). This is seriously depressing not only because america is supposed to be the center of film culture but also because students are stacking up a HUGE amount of debt for this. Absolutely pitiful.
>buy a camera and start now
I'm hesitant because I don't have an exact plan of how to film things. I actually have an idea for a short film but it requires some actors and shit and I don't have those types of resources rn. I've also thought about buying the camera and doing fly-on-the-wall documentaries in the style of Wang Bing but I need to get a better idea of what I actually want to film and put it into a context that is meaningful and enjoyable for an audience. Filming just for the sake of it seems pretty dull

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:43:15 2020 No.16726819

>>16726723
i started in Tübingen this semester and I have no idea how to find people who are actually passionate about the same stuff with all the online lecture shit going on. I'm just sitting in my room alone reading the Greeks. The profs are cool I guess, the regular copy of de anima I have was actually translated by my prof for ancient philosophy.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:50:36 2020 No.16726844

>>16726819
tübingen looks nice based off of these first google images I've seen. definitely a place to get away from cyberspace and neoliberal hustle culture. I imagine studying humanities there must be pretty comfy
the digital semester thing has pros and cons for me. Ofc it's pretty shit for erstis but at the same time the courses are more flexible and I have more time for my part-time job and other stuff. I still live in my hometown (dresden) actually so going to frankfurt even just for one lecture would be a hassle. Luckily I was able to organize everything digitally so now I can save up more money and then move in (hopefully) next semester when shit is calm again.
Do you guys not have a whatsapp or discord group? It's actually pretty fun. People meet up there to play vidya together or just talk about anything really. I'm glad I stumbled upon this critical theory group desu

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:54:13 2020 No.16726857

>>16726794
Just film stuff so you get a basic idea of framing, lightning and so on. Your phone works too.

Honestly, film school is probably even a bigger scam than creative writing courses. The technical knowledge is easily attainable to anyone with an internet connection, cameras are dirty cheap and you can basically torrent every movie you'll ever want to watch. People used to go to film school for their libraries, their equipment and their technical expertise. Now it's just a social game, really. "Networking", the faggots call it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:56:11 2020 No.16726870 >>16725985 It's a good thing you kleft academia. You blame students for striving for good grades in a system that rewards good grades. Go home btw. t. German

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:57:22 2020 No.16726875

>>16726794
All I'm seeing are excuses.

You come across as quite young and unsure of your desires. That's completely fine and normal. I think it's bizarre we expect people to know what they want to do with their lives at the age of 18.

A degree is a big commitment and a lot of work. You have to really be able to motivate yourself to read about things you might not be interested in, and write long and boring essays when you don't feel like it. It's not something you can really coast by on, and for the amount it costs, I would seriously question your motives for doing a philosophy degree when you say you want to be a filmmaker.

You seem like you don't know what you want. I would advise you to take some time to work, see the world a bit, and figure out what you're actually interested in. What are your strengths? What makes you feel alive?

I finished my degree after having worked in a factory, a retail bank, a sales job and as a police officer. It took years to realise my one consistent passion and joy was literature. I had to stick with the degree even when I just wanted to give it up and return to a job in the police. I had to read about feminist theory, about minority writers who were in the syllabus purely for the sake of forced inclusion. I had to write 3000+ word essays on dull literature that produced no spark of passion in me.

I pushed through, got onto my Master's and things are much more engaging. But I know who I am and I know what I want to do with my life. If I didn't I wouldn't have been able to complete my degree.

tl;Dr learn more about yourself and stop caring about what others thing. Find something you have an ounce of talent or passion for and stick to it.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:57:30 2020 No.16726876
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>This many anons went into college and humanities degrees
Holy fuck this explains so much, a lot of other anons have said this but ill drill it in your head again, never ever even fucking consider going to university for humanities or anything that isnt STEM(even that I wouldn’t suggest too much because STEMfags waste their time too). Everyone wanted to go to university and spend their life studying what they love but the fact is if you’re in America you’ll be in debt and wont find a job, and if you’re in europe you wont be in debt but you still wasted years of your life and you cant get a job in your country that’s probably already hard to get a job in. Learn something useful that you’re interested in enough to do for work, a trade, coding, whatever, just something that’s somewhat in demand. Academia is a joke and you’ll end up depressed and doing slave work for your college that still wont pay you enough to live so you’ll have to work at Greggs to survive. If you’re that passionate continue your studies as a hobby and maybe hope to get published but dont even fucking LOOK at college even if you have all the connections in the world its the biggest waste of your time, instead learn how to actually fucking survive on your own and get a job. If thats not enough go talk to people in the field, its all cynical old fucks who dont care anymore or people who have no future, dont do it for fucks sake

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:58:37 2020 No.16726885 >>16726764 And? Recognition isn't a sign of talent. Shittgenstein was a grifter.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 18:59:24 2020 No.16726892

>>16726857
In fairness both film school and CW courses have their gems. Going to Iowa in the US, or UEA in the UK, drastically increases your chances of being published. Here in the UK there is an entire section of Norwich waterstones filled with the published novels of UEA alumni, and the CW course has produced one Nobel laureate (Ishiguro) and a number of booker prize winners.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:01:47 2020 No.16726898 >>16726786 All of moths posts are low effort stale lefty dyke memes all accompanied by pics of younger women taken off facebook she's predatorily obsessed with.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:01:47 2020 No.16726899 >>16719609 Time to experience life, my friend.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:04:44 2020 No.16726911

>>16726885
Many are recognised who aren't talented but I don't think anyone with talent isn't recognised eventually. Yes, we know of Rupi Kaur right now. But Shakespeare will live on after us. This is a literature board-- surely you know from your reading how tangible the difference is between okay writing and art, and how rare the latter is. Dan Brown could slave away for the rest of his life and never produce something as objectively beautiful as Swann's Way or Anna Karenina. And in five hundred years Dan Brown will be forgotten while Proust and Tolstoy are still celebrated and taught.

Melville died penniless and unrecognised, but he had innate talent. He was eventually recognised as those with innate talent always are. I'm not disrespecting the need to graft, and I'm sure there are many with innate talent who never apply it. But if someone is talented, and overcome the hurdle of laziness and self-doubt to actually produce, then I strongly believe their eventual recognition is inevitable.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:04:50 2020 No.16726912 >>16726876 I have a "STEM" degree and if I could start over I would choose law instead.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:05:40 2020 No.16726917 >>16726892 You talk about publishing and that's exactly what I meant when I talked about the "networking" aspect of it. You don't go to these places to advance your craft, but your sociability. To get into the circle jerk.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:06:45 2020 No.16726927 >>16726645 >le epic analytical-continental distinction yeah Frede and Wittgenstein for example were incapable of thinking analytically

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:07:04 2020 No.16726928

>>16726844
They even announced the seminars to be non-digitally at first but it got shifted. The town itself is beautiful, the students are the same as everywhere else, bookstores here are amazing. The whatsapp group is full of 18 yo normie roasties and Lehramtsstudenten. Ich bin auch erst aus Dresden weggezogen, Adorno hatte mich auch interessiert aber Frankfurt war mir zu teuer und großstädtisch und ich wollte im Nebenfach Graezistik machen, da hat sich Heidelberg oder Tübingen angeboten.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:07:46 2020 No.16726934 >>16726927 >Frede Frege

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:09:24 2020 No.16726947

>>16726911
>I don't think anyone with talent isn't recognised eventually.
There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands if not millions of talented people who's talents will not be recognized while a million Shittgaysteins and Fagson Polacks are propped up by the public.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:10:04 2020 No.16726949

>>16726917
Oh sure, I mostly agree. That's just how the world works though, unfortunately. It's why someone with Oxford or Harvard on their CV is much more likely to be hired. Iowa and UEA are very selective and have decades-long relationships with the major publishers. UEA has multiple networking events each term with top agents and publishers, where you can directly pitch your work and talk about your manuscript. The teachers know these figures well and help you craft your manuscript to best appeal to them. Meanwhile the average Joe finishing up his first draft on a mac book alone in his bedroom goes straight to the slush pile and gets 40 seconds of reading before being forgotten.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:10:30 2020 No.16726956 >>16726435 > PhD in physics THEORY i'll take "people lying on 4chan" for ten, bub

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:13:26 2020 No.16726974

>>16726947
I guess that's just where we'll have to disagree. I'm talking about talent, capital T. Anyone writing this century on the level of Joyce, Faulkner, Nabokov or Proust will inevitably find recognition, either in their own lifetime or after. Not all academics and critics have succumbed to decay, nor have all readers. As long as humanity exists there will be people who see objective beauty in art and recognise it as such.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:15:28 2020 No.16726982 >>16726974 >Anyone writing this century on the level of Joyce, Faulkner, Nabokov or Proust will inevitably find recognition Not like you would know if they didn't.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:21:25 2020 No.16727008

>>16726982
I hope you haven't seriously reached a point where you think a writer with Proust's talent could remain unpublished. Even if one or two publishers stubbornly stuck to minority-only attitudes (which isn't nearly as prolific as you think anyway), there are hundreds of publishers. Joyce got published by a small-time outfit. Any one of them would jump at a chance to take on a writer with such immense talent as they will inevitably make them money. Once the book is out in the world, that's that.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:22:33 2020 No.16727013

>>16726949
It seems like we're on the same sad page here and with the same point for the guy who wanted to study film or anyone else: these schools and courses are not about aesthetical, artistic growth, but how to tailor what you've got to present it to the world and get it out.
The anon who wanted to go to film school but has no fucking clue as to what to do with the camera or what role he sees himself in on a film set is set to get underwhelmed, disappoint himself and quit. If you want to be a writer or a filmmaker, read more, watch more films and get to work.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:28:45 2020 No.16727038

>>16727008
>a writer with Proust's talent could remain unpublished
Yes, currently a writer with Proust's talent would remain unpublished in favor of more YA novels and R.R. Martin bait. The further back you go in time you'll also notice how much harder it was to be published. People with talent, at large, don't make it. People who publish manufactured "pop culture of the era" tier shit do. You don't get Ludwig Van. You get Milli Vanilli and the like.

>>	Jesus Fri Nov 6 19:33:58 2020 No.16727061 good thread. excellent. enjoy behavioral sink, natalists, children of natalists. accelerate.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:39:38 2020 No.16727083

>>16727038
Explain Kazuo Ishiguro, Karl Ove Knausgaard, Ian McEwan off the top of my head. Ishiguro is the only one of those three with a modicum of talent but all are straight white males published consistently over the last 20 years. Ishiguro is the best writer of this century so far which speaks more to the dearth of talent than to his own ability, but he is better than most and his most acclaimed novel doesn't have a single minority in it.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:43:39 2020 No.16727098

>>16727038
>>16727083
Which is to say I think the issue is a lack of talented writers. This is probably due in part to education changes-- just 100ish years ago Joyce had read Dante, Shakespeare and Milton in his early teens and was writing copiously into his adulthood. Nowadays the classics are neglected in schools and children have less reverence of them, thus they cannot respond to the beauty in them. Another issue is widespread technological advances-- many of the great old writers would write for hours every single day and spend huge amounts of their leisure time reading.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:43:41 2020 No.16727099 >>16719609 nice first year student bait

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:46:34 2020 No.16727106

>>16727083
Explain all the nobodies who won't ever even end up writing their potential masterpieces down because they've been so degraded they can only see themselves as successful if they're high functioning economic units. Explain all the potential Joyces and Prousts that get chewed up and spit out and left to rot.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 19:59:47 2020 No.16727162

>>16727106
Prove that these frustrated geniuses even exist? It's like the central debate in the movie Whiplash (which I highly recommend) - a modern Joyce, a modern Proust could not be beaten into submission. Accepting defeat would disqualify them from greatness.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:02:42 2020 No.16727175

>>16726876
I agree with this sentiment. I took my humanities BA straight to a nice cozy job as a baker and I think I am ultimately much happier for it. That being said, I do think that if I had never gone to college, I would be continue to hold a romanticized ideal of higher ed and run 'what if' questions in my head all the time. At the very least, I got four years to study things I care about and visit other countries for dirt cheap, as well as an appreciation of the more simple career path I ended up on.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:05:52 2020 No.16727197

>>16727162
It's not up to me to "prove they exist". You've created a naively optimistic unfalsifiable hypothesis. Your entire argument hinges upon redundant phrasing and tautological statements, i.e. "If talented people make it they always make it, if they don't make it for whatever reason they don't have any talent at all." This kind of thinking I couldn't describe as anything other than totally unabashedly retarded.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:06:10 2020 No.16727201

>>16726875
I know that I'm uncertain about my future and that I should stick to whatever I'm talented in. I decided on philosophy because I'm very interested in the subject itself and the skillset it gives you can be applied to lots of different fields.
No matter what, I want to at least finish this bachelor's degree, even if I'll become boring at some point. I know that college is stressful but it also gives you a sense of discipline. I've lived as a neet and part-time jobber for almost two years, and my productivity was entirely reliant on mood swings, which ultimately lead to nothing but confusion and unsatisfaction.
I will see if I can have enough free time and energy for creative stuff on the side. Even when I'm finished with my bachelors I will only be 23 y/o. I don't think it's dramatic to not have a plan even by that age. I think I'll be fine as long as I'm willing to do these things
>I would seriously question your motives for doing a philosophy degree when you say you want to be a filmmaker.
Becoming a filmmaker is such a non-linear career that it's absurd to say things like that (no offense). Some of them did go to film school, others did not. Tarantino for example didn't, he was just a film nerd working at some kind of blockbuster ripoff. Iirc he saved up and made a bunch of connections, which frankly was easier for him than for most since he lived in cali. Kubrick was a photographer for a magazine who used his own savings plus loans from his family to make his debut. Roger deakins was an art nerd/photographer until he went to national film school.
I think philosophy can help a lot especially in terms of writing. I think I might write my own script very soon, though I also wanna "let it grow" over the years just to see if I'll still like it then.
>>16726928
ja die kommilitonen aus dem ersten semester sind cringe hoch 2. chats werden zugespamt mit deutschen memes und r/de humor. vor allem mit den japanologie studenten kann ich mich 0 identifizieren auch wenn ich selber anime mag.
die von den oberen semestern dagegen sind echt gelassen und alles andere als peinlich. die haben mich auch zur kritische theorie gruppe eingeladen. Ich hoffe ich kann sie irgendwann in person treffen.
ich hab mich hauptsächlich in frankfurt beworben weil ich nur ein fachabi habe und das nur in thüringen und hessen für ein studium an der uni akzeptiert wird. die kleinstädte in diesen ländern sind zwar bezahlbarer aber nicht wirklich besser.
>gräzistik
basiert anon. ich bin nicht ganz so interessiert an griechenland aber damit hast du ja schon etwas worauf du dich spezialisieren kannst. ich muss es bei mir noch finden

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:06:27 2020 No.16727203 >>16721044 If you have it in finance you can make serious cash

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:11:46 2020 No.16727234 >>16723812 So just do that on the side too

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:14:08 2020 No.16727244 What good philosophers actually got a Phil degree? It seems like anyone you'd actually study was just a good thinker in their own right, not a credentialed autist

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:15:05 2020 No.16727251 >>16727244 marx

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:15:05 2020 No.16727252

>>16727197
Yet you're assuming their existence? Dubliners was rejected 18 times over 9 years. Joyce preferred to persist in abject poverty which I think is a mark of greatness. I think you're just trying to cope by telling yourself you could be one of the great writers who would be beaten back by big bad publishers because you're not transgender or black so you never even try. How ridiculous, when straight white people are being published every year. Talent doesn't equal greatness, talent tempered with hard work and persistence does. It's incredibly ignorant to think that, if somebody surfaced today with the prose skill of Joyce or Proust, they would be incapable of finding a single publisher to produce their work. It's even more naive to assume that the legions of critics and scholars whose job it is to evaluate objective merit would not recognise such skill if they saw it, and acclaim it as such. Your defeatest, pessimistic attitude is simply wrong and your willingness to believe it is telling.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:17:44 2020 No.16727270 hey stupid idiot humanities majors i know you probably need money i'm willing to pay handsomely for oatmeal enema videos you dumb ass idiots

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:19:18 2020 No.16727280
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>>16719799
If it makes you feel any better, most of us Eternal Anglos know how bad things really are too.
>>16723355
>>16723616
Way to make the ideological capture of American academia look like a sarcastic meme.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:21:53 2020 No.16727296

>>16727252
t. someone who has never really tried to get published

lay off the internet, man. you're spending too much time in curated little niche circles, and you inject yourself with the daily news all the time. the world isn't so awful and against you as you think. go outside.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:22:22 2020 No.16727300

>>16727252
>you're assuming their existence
I'm not assuming their existence, I'm deducing their existence. I don't give a shit what characteristics an author has and it's very telling that you'd think I would. If the next potential Joyce was cast into such economic turmoil he could not even afford paper and pen to jot his thoughts down on, how could you expect him to publish anything? If the next Joyce was shot in the back of the head in a botched robbery or home invasion would you expect him to write his masterpiece from beyond the grave? If the next Joyce was put in an institution for the duration of his entire upbringing and taught on the regular to behave like everyone else do you seriously think his psyche could resist the incessant conditioning?

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:27:53 2020 No.16727340

>wahhhh i don't know how to be sociable and friendly so i can get a job easier
>wahhhh i can't spend hours every day sending cold emails to possible clients
>wahhhhhh i can't make a website to freelance
>wahhhhhhhh going to school is so tough
>wahhhhhhhh why are YA pop novels being published? wahhhhh those YA publishers should publish my verbose attempt at literary fiction instead
>wahhhhhh i'm a defeatist little faggot
>wahhhh i can't come up with creative solutions to my problems

Ya'll ever stop and think that you might just be dumb?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:28:56 2020 No.16727346 >>16727340 >Ya'll

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:31:16 2020 No.16727358 >>16727346 Shut up, faggot. Go whine some more.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:31:48 2020 No.16727362 >>16727358 mad

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:32:34 2020 No.16727372

>>16727296
I have actually been published, which is why I'm saying essentially what you are- the publishing industry ISN'T such a scary thing, the world isn't such a bad place, and aspiring writers have much greater chances of success than they think. Not sure how you extrapolated your response from what I wrote.

>>16727300
No, of course they wouldn't be able to be published then, but I think you're being overly facetious. If someone today has the talent and drive necessary to become a great writer, then I do not believe theh will not be published, and I do not believe they will not be recognised. That's what I'm essentially arguing.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:33:20 2020 No.16727378 >>16727362 Yeah, it's pretty maddening reading a whole thread of soft-as-shit faggots complain like women.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:34:23 2020 No.16727386 >>16727372 t. published in his small city's culture magazine

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:35:00 2020 No.16727388 >>16719724 to be a holistic individual which further perpetuate idealist view while at the same time a strong focus of character building morally and rationally.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:35:13 2020 No.16727390

>>16727372
>If someone today has the talent and drive necessary to become a great writer, then I do not believe theh will not be published, and I do not believe they will not be recognised. That's what I'm essentially arguing.
If someone today has the talent and drive necessary to become a great writer, then there are nearly endless situations that could arise that are out of their control and would lead them to not be published or recognized.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:36:13 2020 No.16727397

>>16727372
I'm not the anon you're replying too so I'm not moving the goalposts, but there are a lot of fields that actually are heavily gatekept, and I can understand how someone in those fields would become blackpilled.
I think poetry is the most obvious example, anyone who wants to make money or recognition in poetry is essentially DOA.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:36:32 2020 No.16727400 >>16727378 >like women Says the "we're all gonna make it" optimist lmao. Sounds like you got told you could be whatever you wanted a little too much as a child. Grow up faggot.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:37:35 2020 No.16727407

>>16726660
I guess the school system is different in the UK, because private schools in the US pay their teachers ~30% less than their public school counterparts. In fact, private school teachers are seen as lesser teachers because they're paid less and lack credentials. Public/government schools require their teachers to have bachelor's degrees, while private schools have no qualification barrier.

Many young people will teach at Catholic or private schools because they don't require a teaching license or anything. They'll take classes at the local uni and get their degree. Once they graduate and get their teaching license, they move on to teaching in the public school system, as well enjoying a $15,000 instant pay increase

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:37:51 2020 No.16727410 >>16727388 Does it actually do any of those things? Are those things worth exorbitant amounts of money? Or is it a credential factory with delusions of grandeur?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:38:59 2020 No.16727419 >>16727400 >wahhh i'm a dumb loser faggot who sucks at writing wahhh feel shitty like me

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:41:35 2020 No.16727428 >>16727419 >if the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows it makes me sad so you can't tell me it isn't Couldn't imagine being such a spoilt little bitch.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:43:05 2020 No.16727438 >>16727428 Life is dank when you have skills that get you paid. Life is the ultimate kino. Sorry you got filtered by it, but I'm not gonna feel bad for you. Btw you sound like a bitch.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:43:35 2020 No.16727440 >>16727438 >dank

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:44:19 2020 No.16727445 >>16727440 This is why no one likes you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:45:12 2020 No.16727448 >>16727445 >no one likes you Keep projecting faggot.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:50:06 2020 No.16727476 >>16727448 get a job.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:54:13 2020 No.16727497 >>16727476 Already got one plowing your mom's fat old dumptruck ass.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:55:35 2020 No.16727505 >>16727497 male prostitutes are lower than female ones.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:57:10 2020 No.16727514 >>16727505 Could have thought that one out a little more. Phrasing is very awkwardly structured. Either way I win, because I'm better than you. Sucks to suck, doesn't it faggot?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:57:16 2020 No.16727515 >>16722585 >Are you annoyed that scientific standards are applied to philosophy? (((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:57:35 2020 No.16727520 >>16723072 Not larping, not a stemfag. Cope more.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 20:59:35 2020 No.16727529 File: 404 KB, 544x363, B0CCECC4-3C4C-4A15-B63C-73FED27F2089.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16723151 >Schopenhauer >200 years ago

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 21:03:29 2020 No.16727541

>>16723151
>>16727529
The greatest part is that almost nothing has changed since then. Read his essay on academic philosophy and every time he mentions "the State" or "religion", swap it with "the Capital" and "scientism", and you will have an eerily accurate description of academia today.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 21:06:48 2020 No.16727554

>>16725981

Even those jobs are super competitive. If you don't graduate from a top-10 school you have 0% chance at getting a tenured position at a university. But then there are lots of people getting philosophy phds from lower tier schools. There were about 15 people in my program (a top-10 school); two people wound up with decent positions; about 4-5 are now teaching at shitty community colleges making $50k. The rest that I know about are literally still adjuncting or just found jobs doing other things (data science, pursuing law degrees, etc).

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 21:07:07 2020 No.16727557

>>16727410
Its suppose to follow in that line of reasoning. Rather then a bare bone pragmatisch way. It suppose to not just equip skills on which to satisfy ones material needs. It only becomes a grandeur of delusion once it becomes other than that of educating - pursuing wealth and status etc. Real educators live modestly without much concern of the external world. Not saying students have to go be a monk , but we can see as OP mentioned , it has been derailed from the main goal.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 21:10:15 2020 No.16727570 >>16727252 You're a fucking young moron.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 21:28:13 2020 No.16727647 >>16727541 >almost nothing has changed I found this out after reading some church fathers. Nothing is new under the sun

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 21:45:08 2020 No.16727710 >>16727400 Kek

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 21:47:04 2020 No.16727720 >>16727541 I have indeed done this very exercise my dear anon. It's saddening to say the least. Shows how prescient the man was, however.

Anonymous Fri Nov 6 21:54:33 2020 No.16727765
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>>16727340
>>16727346
>>16727358
>>16727362
>>16727378
>>16727400
>>16727419
>>16727428
>>16727438
>>16727440
>>16727445
>>16727448
>>16727476
>>16727497
>>16727505
You may kiss the bride

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 22:12:35 2020 No.16727847 Is going to trade school for IT a bad choice? I’m not sure if it’s a good idea but I don’t have anything else on my mind.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 22:17:44 2020 No.16727862 >>16720015 >study something concrete and with actual bearing on the real world, like math AHAHAHAHAHAHA Please note that this is the derisive laugh of a disillusioned math student, rather than a brainlet humanities guy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 22:18:42 2020 No.16727866 >>16727175 Thank you for your insight

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 6 23:20:39 2020 No.16728066 >>16727514 you're just making stuff up. you have no understanding of grammar or poetics. FAGGOT.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 01:11:52 2020 No.16728434 >>16728066 I win, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 01:56:27 2020 No.16728588 >>16727765 I love this board

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 01:58:21 2020 No.16728596 >>16727862 pure math is like philosophy in that mastery of it will help in many subjects by increasing your writing and thinking ability. but its definitely easier to get a job with a math degree. t. masters in pure math. work in cs research now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 04:15:41 2020 No.16729001 >>16720216 uh, you don't have philosophy in high school?

Anonymous Sat Nov 7 04:26:11 2020 No.16729026

>>16719493
Humanities are vastly superior to STEM for 2 reasons:
a, studying humanities is easy AND fun, while studying STEM is a hard and ungrateful task
b, You will find employment with most non-retarded humanity degrees for a decent salary, while STEM degrees will probably land you a job where you perform menial tasks and the pay is actually getting worse every year due to a reliable influx of poos and yuropoors.

Your mistake was picking philosophy which is like the most broad subject out there. Philosophy is not something you study for the sake of it, it's something you use to reflect on your life from different perspectives. Literally everyone "does" philosophy, however retarded they may be at it. Unless you have revolutionary ideas of your own, it's a waste of time to get a degree in it.

My advice is that you stay in the humanities, pick something else you like.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 04:26:43 2020 No.16729027 >>16719609 >>16719724 >The state of academic philosophy is crazy. lol dwt fucking plato the idea of academia is retarded anyway and the idea of having philosophers wanting a career is even more retarded

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 04:28:01 2020 No.16729029 >>16727244 Try reading few Wikipedia biographies of philosophers retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 04:40:20 2020 No.16729061 >>16725985 lol humanists love to whine that their idea of educating plebeians is moronic and yet cant stop educating them

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 05:35:36 2020 No.16729200 I am currently doing masters in Sociology and working part-time in marketing. It is fun.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 05:37:20 2020 No.16729210 >>16727397 if rupi kaur made it, so can you, anon

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 08:03:27 2020 No.16729666 >>16729200 what exactly do you do in "marketing"? I just imagine it like yet another bullshit job

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 09:39:51 2020 No.16730073 >>16726503 Do you have a grudge against homosexuals Anon?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 09:44:51 2020 No.16730102 >>16726671 I Disagree Anon; we may be able to beat death with science in the future.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 09:48:07 2020 No.16730125 File: 91 KB, 1076x760, b90.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16727244 imagine being this retarded

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 09:48:20 2020 No.16730128 >>16726723 I disagree Anon; we may be able to beat climate change with Science through progress in fields like geoengineering.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 09:49:36 2020 No.16730141 >>16723616 kek

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 09:53:01 2020 No.16730151 >>16726736 Great Writers and artists are not "inevitably recognised". Recognition depends on talent and luck. If you are talented but unlucky you will likely be forgotten.

Anonymous Sat Nov 7 09:53:02 2020 No.16730152

>>16730128
no. to tackle climate change effectively there needs to be some sort of international action, even if it "breaks" the economy. I'm a leftist but I agree with conservatives in the sense that making your own country "green" won't do shit when other countries are either uncapable or unwilling to follow suit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 09:53:56 2020 No.16730158 >>16730128 Yeah, bro! We'll beat technologically driven environmental catastrophe by using even more technology! Geoengineering will prevail! There are not hidden vulnerabilities when it comes to changing the surface of the Earth and its atmosphere!

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 09:58:26 2020 No.16730179 >>16730128 It's actually very easy to "beat" climate change and it requires no science: Removal of the human population.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:00:55 2020 No.16730191 >>16726974 What do you mean by "objective beauty"?

Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:08:40 2020 No.16730235 [DELETED]

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Whats all this racket? It is a well known fact that schools are not for learning anything other than the social conventions that will allow you to use the knowledge that you acquire on your own, outside schools. They also provide the material, or rather monopolize it, but that is changing with internet.

If you remain at school you wont be truly able to use anything you 'learn' cause you will be unconsciously formatted to remain within its academic limits; you will just be able to publish under your name what is accepted by all. If you drop out and continue on your own you will be able to assimilate everything practically wthout restrictions but, being outside from academia, wont be able to use it socially in any relevant way, unless you live in an extreme situation of social transition where people would be forced to listen to those who lie outside recognized social institutions.

you cant have it all: you either live safe within social limits and leave all fundamental questions unanswered or you drop it all and let your mind lead you into the unknown and then see what happens (it will certainly solve it, the same way it solved language learning after birth).

Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:11:41 2020 No.16730246
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>>16730152
>international action
Laughs in subsidiarity
>>16730179
Yes because the Earth’s climate remains constant and comfortable in the abscence of human beings

Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:12:48 2020 No.16730254

>>16729200
Explain to me the appeal of Sociology. I have tried to enjoy the field but have been unable to do so. For me, it seems like a discipline that artificially tries to be "scientific" and "rigorous" while being extremely bland, boring and insubstantial.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:14:38 2020 No.16730267 >>16730246 yeah no shit I'm not optimistic that neolib cucks are gonna care about that. guess we're doomed

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:15:37 2020 No.16730271 >>16729026 how can one man be this retarded

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:16:22 2020 No.16730278 >>16730267 We were doomed from the start! READ THE BIBLE YOU DORK

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:21:43 2020 No.16730308 File: 8 KB, 198x254, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16730246 >NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WERE NOT CAUSING THE HOLE IN THE OZONE LAYER ITS JUST NATURAL CYCLE NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:33:07 2020 No.16730364 >>16730125 this is literally me any recs to stop being like this

Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:38:52 2020 No.16730391

>>16730364
There is no intellectual escape from this trap, friend. I'm 27 now, and was that guy until I finished my master's a couple of years ago. What you have to do is not think, but act on something. Read Wittgenstein on the side and find something to do out of the house. Do you live near the sea? If yes you can go fishing or learn how to sail, those are extremely nice activities that force you out of your head.

>>	Jesus Sat Nov 7 10:40:10 2020 No.16730399 goys, real economy doesn't need you. what value do you produce? you don't need each other. you are byproduct of natalism. you must wear masks, and take vaccine. you are all useless eaters.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 10:45:46 2020 No.16730428 >>16730399 you are the single worst fucking larper on /lit. I hope your suicide comes soon enough.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 12:50:35 2020 No.16731157 Academia doesn't need your weaekasses anyway.

>>	Jesus Sat Nov 7 13:32:58 2020 No.16731465 >>16730428 I am flattered. Real Jesus must be crucified daily. Jesus who kisses your asses is sweet Antichrist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 13:35:32 2020 No.16731485 >>16730308 I just got btfo’d. Better write my eulogy

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 14:45:38 2020 No.16731916 >>16730073 Only if they're faggots or cringe and gay.

Anonymous Sat Nov 7 14:47:54 2020 No.16731929

>>16730391
This. Ironically, it also ended for me after my getting my master's. Fucked off from the uni-land bubble, forced myself to live a little, and god did feel like a liberation. Also salvaged my love for reading and writing from the wreckage in the process, so nothing of worth was lost.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 14:49:57 2020 No.16731937 >>16730391 >fishing >forces you out of your head Nah man, it's a lot of sitting around in silence

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 15:09:32 2020 No.16732053 >>16730271 scientists cant explain it

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 15:30:06 2020 No.16732178 >>16722585 >My frown lines rippled violently when you complained about having to quote "dozens of articles" that must be up to date. This is bullshit even in actual science never mind it having little place in philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 15:32:16 2020 No.16732190 >>16726780 It isn't, it's impossible to have it recognised as legitimate. i.e. the structure of it inherently dogmatic and limited in scope.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 15:59:38 2020 No.16732389 >>16719493 should have finished it dude

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 16:00:34 2020 No.16732394 >>16719493 >What should I do next kys You really need to ask?

>>	Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD Sat Nov 7 16:03:40 2020 No.16732417 Contemporary so called: "universities", are actually globaria.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 16:48:18 2020 No.16732676 >>16720164 kek this

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 16:51:05 2020 No.16732698 >>16719493 it's not just the humanities college in general is extremely underwhelming and pointless unless it's a flagship school that costs tens of thousands of dollars per semester

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 16:57:45 2020 No.16732727 I am a stem grad and the most important thing I noticed in all grad studies is making connections

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 17:08:02 2020 No.16732788 >>16730399 > human life is worthless if it doesn't contribute to my (((economy))) Guess they weren't wrong when they said you were Jewish. Please be an edgelord somewhere else.

>>	Jesus Sat Nov 7 21:23:51 2020 No.16734003 >>16732788 yes. civilization, science, arts are saturated already with your "contributions" and "improvements". behavioral sink.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 7 22:03:22 2020 No.16734188 >>16725985 I think you Mia read history. It’s always been like that my friend. Just this time it’s filled with progressive assholes.

Anonymous Sat Nov 7 23:58:22 2020 No.16734722

>>16720169
lmao as someone studying CS it's hilarious how all the fags doing literally anything else in university are also "learning python" on the side
what I will tell you is that if you manage to study some humanities shit and then land a job as a programmer (especially one that requires python which tend to be specialized), you probably have a big brain.
this is not something you should be confident about especially as tech jobs get more and more specialized and there's less meme jobs like in the past

Anonymous Sun Nov 8 00:03:53 2020 No.16734746

>>16725985
because we're literally competing with indians and chinese whose education system is exactly the way you described it
you don't realize how fucking bad it is in STEM currently
I'm from Canada and the universities are fucking over local students by hiring more internationals and increasing GPA requirements and whatnot for admission
and local public school students are generally not prepared for the chinese/indian style of "learning" so they get fucked over by the system right from the moment they step into a public high school.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 8 00:22:20 2020 No.16734826 >>16730073 Yes, they spread a lot of STDs and shit up everywhere they go. Kinda like blacks

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 8 03:02:12 2020 No.16735371 >>16722680 I think this is why many people interested in pure subjects just self study on their own. If you want to earn money do something else or learn to live with less. Academia sucks the joy out of studying.

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/lit/ - Literature