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16640917 No.16640917 [Reply] [Original]

How do I into nondualism?

>> No.16640923

>>16640917
>he thinks non-dualism is schizo TES-tier metaphysics

>> No.16640927

>>16640923

It sometimes is, TES stuff is based off of Hindu Vedanta stuff and some basic thelema.

>> No.16640932

>>16640923
I don't, I'm just a fascist that thinks everything everything is one- which is pretty much one of the main take aways of Gentile's Actual idealism.

>> No.16640940

think about paradoxes

>> No.16640946

>>16640940
I want some books, I have Guenon's introduction to Hindu doctrines but am first finishing up all of Plato's/Socrates works and will also read some of Aristotle's logik work.

>> No.16640977

>>16640927
Hindu Vedantism is not just "everything is mind bro you are what you imagine".

>>16640932
Yes, but you see, what that One is is much more complex. Schopenhauer also believed the world was One, so did Pythagoras in some sense. Just "One" alone means so little other than a greater religious adoration or recognition, in the case of Schopenhauer a despising.

>> No.16640983

>>16640917
Solipsism

>> No.16640993

God is pure existence.
God is Reality.
Reality is One and Whole.
Everything that exists, is God, because God is existence.

>> No.16640997

>>16640993
Are you god, or part of god?
Are all encompassing or a piece?

>> No.16641013

>>16640977
>Hindu Vedantism is not just "everything is mind bro you are what you imagine".
It is tho.

>> No.16641021

>>16640997
think about origami, how structures seem to come up on folding but they are all still part of a single whole

>> No.16641034

>>16641021
Ok so a part.

>> No.16641048

>>16641013
It literally isn't.

>> No.16641057

>>16640917
If the observer is not separate from the object observed, why do i need to observe it?

>> No.16641070

>>16641057
The observer-flower complex observes itself. You're imputing a subjectivity to an element of the system which isn't real.

>> No.16641089

>>16640917

Honest question, so nondualism is a thing. You can (arguably) describe what it is. You have ideas of how to reach that awareness. You even encourage others to do the same.

Why?

Throughout that entire process is the implicit argument that nondualism is both true and good to aspire to. Well I don't see why. Why do you desperately want to coerce yourself or any other individual into awareness of nondualism? And what makes you think it is any more true than any other ideal?

>> No.16641091

>>16641034
you are literally retarded

>> No.16641103

>>16640993
If God is emergent, how can he be everything?

>> No.16641107

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb3PzxwEKCQ&t=324s

>> No.16641111

>>16641091
Lol you can't even tell what I was asking and you're calling me retarded?

>> No.16641138
File: 239 KB, 1080x1440, 761EECFA-F30C-450D-BC69-943FFBDB6593.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16641138

>>16640983
Solipsism is from Latin solus ‘alone’ + ipse ‘self’. It inherently rests on a metaphysics based in your separation, solitude from the world and this privacy is sufficient to be a world of ones own to be all that the world that you are without. Nondualism, as the name fucking suggests, denies the possibility of any such duality between you and the world. Holy shit it’s like a bunch of fucking children with picture book pop philo dictionaries on /lit/

>> No.16641171
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16641171

>>16641111
digits

>> No.16641174

>>16640917
unironically heidegger and sartre

>> No.16641189
File: 627 KB, 1500x844, the-effects-of-lsd-on-the-brain-67496_V2-51b39f8f47db48498ff0cac677f7721f.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16641189

>>16640917
What are the connections between LSD and non dualism? Everytime I experience ego death I feel "one with the world"

You think I can start a cult seducing people with acid and become one organic body and use our grouo strength to destroy the international banking system?

>> No.16641328

>>16640917

Someone's been reading John McDowell

>> No.16641349

>>16641189
LSD for me just turns saturation up to 150% makes shapes a little unstable and accelerates my autism so I am thinking up internal shitposts at 2x speed.

The higher I dose the more dramatic the visual effects get and the more phsycial insecurity and fear I begin to feel. (for example, thinking a car is going to hit me, or someone is going to attack me on the street)

>> No.16641362

Heidegger, Rorty. Mikhail Bahktin’s Rabelais and His World seems to posit a unified world through the carnival and laughter, but I haven’t read enough to really say. But definitely Heidegger, Being and Time has a critique of Descartes very early on and will explicitly say that such and such is not a mental process or anything like that

>> No.16641369

>>16640917
Step outside
Have a look

>> No.16641375

Can someone recommend Kaballah non-dualistic books?

>> No.16641396

>>16641369
The problem comes when they think all that they’re seeing is represented in their head like OPs pic is.

>> No.16641399

>>16641070
>The observer-flower complex observes itself.
But I cant not observe myself, but i can get away from the flower and not be able to obseve it
If we were interconnected I wouldnt even need to know about the plant let alone observe it

>> No.16641413

>>16641375
The more you study the Tree of Life you'll realize nonduality is directly indicated in it's structure via harmonization of the poles, take for example the relationships between Chesed, Geburah and Tiphareth.

Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabala is a good start.

>> No.16641415

>>16641375
Ascent to Heaven in Islamic and Jewish Mysticism - algis uzdavinys

The Universal Meaning of Kabbalah - leo schaya

>> No.16641417

>>16641369
It's in a book.
A reading rainbow.

>> No.16641430

>>16641138
its sollipsistic in fhe sense that only the ground of being 'exists' and your essential identity with it is 'one' means only 'you' exist.

>> No.16641441

>>16641430
>it's solipsistic when I change the rules around to make it so it's solipsistic

>> No.16641444

>>16641415
Nice thanks :)
Give more please. I only had Aryeh Kaplan before.
t. Different guy

>> No.16641554

>>16641396
Really weird way to see the world.

>> No.16641606

>>16640932
>a fascist
well then you deserve someone connecting his fist to your cheekbone experiencing the fullness of everything is one.

>> No.16641653

>>16641048
>literally
best use of this overworked word I've read on this board this year
merely auditing argument, not partaking
carry on

>> No.16641659

>>16640917
Low IQ
>both sides are dumb

Mid IQ
>both sides are valid

High IQ
>both sides are irrevelant

>> No.16641666

>>16641554
Yeah, cute, no one's born a dualist. What a novel take. Shall I ask if you have anything substantial to say so you can make another "clever remark"?

>> No.16641672

>>16641369
Are you non dualist butters?

>> No.16641673

>>16640917
Spinoza's Ethics. There is only one substance because by definition two substances cannot interact.

Bergson, Borges, and Deleuze may also be of interest. Taoism if you are interested in Eastern traditions.

>> No.16641675

>>16641606
T. Someone who has no idea what fascism is

>> No.16641682

>>16641673
Also Emerson's Nature essay may be of interest.

>> No.16641695

>>16640917
>How do I into nondualism?
grow a vagina

>> No.16641704

>>16641189>>16641349

>>16641189
>What are the connections between LSD and non dualism? Everytime I experience ego death I feel "one with the world"
drugs just make you see what you wanted to see, this is why drones feel spiritual when they take them

>> No.16641708
File: 121 KB, 802x509, C9zjGIoW0AEr7AE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16641708

>>16641704
>drugs just make you see what you wanted to see
There's more to it than that

>> No.16641709

>>16641695
how do I grow a vagina? Asking for a friend
the friend is my penis

>> No.16641711

>>16641675
Would you support a nationalist xenophobe who promises to ethnically cleanse the country and purge degenerates?

>> No.16641717

>>16641711
No
And that's not what fascism is

>> No.16641728
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16641728

>>16641711
>>16641717
>Nationalism, in fact, founds the State on the concept of nation, the nation being an entity which transcends the will and the life of the individual because it is conceived as objectively existing apart from the consciousness of individuals, existing even if the individual does nothing to bring it into being. For the nationalist, the nation exists not by virtue of the citizen's will, but as datum, a fact, of nature.

>For Fascism, on the contrary, the State is a wholly spiritual creation. It is a national State, because, from the Fascist point of view, the nation itself is a creation of the mind and is not a material presupposition, is not a datum of nature. The nation, says the Fascist, is never really made; neither, therefore, can the State attain an absolute form, since it is merely the nation in the latter's concrete, political manifestation. For the Fascist, the State is always in fieri. It is in our hands, wholly; whence our very serious responsibility towards it.

>> No.16641760

>>16641728
imagine being so spooked by a spook that the acknowledgement that your spooks were spooks made you spook even harder so everything would stay spooked. Spooky

>> No.16641771
File: 14 KB, 256x389, The_German_Ideology.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16641771

>>16641760
ohnonononononono

>> No.16641783

hang soem leaves up on the lamp

>> No.16641908

>>16641369
You mean outside my mom's basement? I don't think so...

>> No.16642271

>>16640917
Introduction to the Study of the
Hindu Doctrines by Rene Guenon

>> No.16642287

>>16641653
The structures in which are imposed and created in creation in Hinduism, aren't just meaningless aspects of imagination. Brahma is far more profound than that.

>> No.16642345

>>16640917
Look up David R. Hawkins

>> No.16642349

>>16640917
>>16640946
The Advaita Tradition in Indian Philosophy
Man and His Becoming according to the Vedanta
Bhagavad Gita (with commentary of Shri Shankaracharya)
8 Principal Upanishads with commentary of Shri Shankaracharya

>> No.16642521

>>16640917
Stop taking your meds
Alternatively, take drugs. Psychedelics and uppers until you go full schizo, then fixate on how your new state is REAL and avoid getting treatment

>> No.16642554

>>16640923
>S-word mentioned within the minute

holy shit they're fast

>> No.16642764
File: 79 KB, 640x412, 640px-Tokaido53_Mariko.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16642764

>>16640917
Some koans for you;

世尊、因外道問、不問有言、不問無言。

A non-Buddhist philosopher said to the Buddha, "I do not ask for words; I don not ask for non-words."

世尊據座。

The Buddha just sat there.

外道贊歎云、世尊大慈大悲、開我迷雲令我得入。

The philosopher said admiringly, "The World-honored One, with his great mercy, has blown away the clouds of my illusion and enabled me to enter the Way."

乃具禮而去。

And after making bows, he took his leave.

阿難尋問佛、外道有何所證贊歎而去。

Then Ananda asked the Buddha, "What did he realize, to admire you so much?"

世尊云、如世良馬見鞭影而行。

The World-honored One replied, "A fine horse runs even at the shadow of the whip."

南泉和尚因東西堂爭猫兒。

Nansen Oshõ saw monks of the Eastern and Western halls quarreling over a cat.

泉乃提起云、大衆道得即救、道不得即斬却也。

He held up the cat and said, "If you can give an answer, you will save the cat. If not, I will kill it."

衆無對。泉遂斬之。

No one could answer, and Nansen cut the cat in two.

晩趙州外歸。 泉擧似州。

That evening Jõshû returned, and Nansen told him of the incident.

州乃脱履安頭上而出。

Jõshû took off his sandal, placed it on his head, and walked out.

泉云、子若在即救得猫兒。

"If you had been there, you would have saved the cat," Nansen remarked.
Mumon's Comment

無門曰、且道、趙州頂草鞋意作麼生。

Tell me, what did Jõshû mean when he put the sandal on his head?

若向者裏下得一轉語、便見南泉令不虚行。

If you can give a turning word on this, you will see that Nansen's decree was carried out with good reason.

其或未然險。

If not, "Danger!"

>> No.16642794

>>16642764
The correct answer to Nansen's cat is wet ass pussy.

>> No.16642797

>>16642764
koans are not buddhist

>> No.16642802

>>16642797
Well at the very least they are non-dualist.

>> No.16642813

>>16642797
big claim about cha'an

>> No.16642826

>>16640993
>god is an innocent child being eviscerated

thanks but no thanks

>> No.16643125

>>16641606
>>a fascist
>well then you deserve someone connecting his fist to your cheekbone experiencing the fullness of everything is one.
Why "his" fist? Why do you assume a womyn isn't strong enough? You fuckin sexist pig

>> No.16643170

>>16643125
A woman with boxing experience certainly can punch a guy in the cheek, I don't understand how he can be this sexist.

>> No.16643197

>>16640993
It’s kind of interesting that I, a total brainlet disinterested in philosophy, have been saying and living by this for years without even knowing it’s a real thing

>> No.16643222

>>16641089
Because when you actually are "at one" your at peace.

>> No.16643290

>>16641695
t. Christfag

>> No.16643340
File: 518 KB, 1126x1400, 912nKHSfnML._SL1400_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16643340

>>16640917
>How do I into nondualism?
First read a book or two on Hindu philosophy or Vedanta like:

The Essentials of Indian Philosophy by Hiriyanna
Advaita Vedanta: a Philosophical Reconstruction by Deutsch
Man and His Becoming According to the Vedanta by Guenon
Saṃkara’s Advaita Vedanta: A Way of Teaching by Hirst
The Advaita Tradition in Indian Philosophy by Sharma
Theology after Vedanta by Clooney

This will ensure you have the needed understanding of Sanskrit philosophical vocabulary to read through the primary source material yourself. After this, Read Adi Shankara's writings, his metaphysics is more or less the gold standard of non-dualism. Begin with his shorter Upanishad commentaries

https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf

You can read this compilation of these 8 Upanishad commentaries linked above online or order a copy on amazon. After that you should then read his two other, longer Upanishad commentaries, and then his commentaries on the Bhagavad-Gita and Brahma Sutras, as well as his non-commentary works.

You can also read this text the Ashtavakra Gita right now without any preparation for an idea of what it's about, and it is quite good, although it doesn't explain the concept in as much elaborate detail and with as much clarity as a prose work like Shankara's commentaries.

https://realization.org/p/ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita.html

>> No.16643593

>>16640917
Ramana Marharshi

>> No.16643744
File: 482 KB, 551x546, Kali-Pepe-copy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16643744

>>16640997

The classical non-dualism of Advaita denies that our Atman or soul is a part of Brahman and maintains that it is instead identical with Brahman, but not in the sense of there being innumerable souls identical with Brahman in their nature *as* individual delimited souls, which would clearly result in a contradiction (the limited thing 'A' is real and is also the Unlimited 'B', but so are the limited 'C' and 'D' also this Unlimited B), but rather that that there is only one Brahman/Atman and that using It's powers It creates and maintains innumerable insentient bodies of creatures, illuminating and animating them as the innermost sentient presence dwelling with their heart, but at the same time remaining in It's original, unmodified, omnipresent form outside them, just as the sun illuminates all things while remaining distinct from them. Normal psychological or egoistic self-identity involves a failure to recognize the distinction between this boundless awareness and the objects which appear in it, like physical body and the intellect. if one doesn't recognize this, then one conceives oneself to be the body and its mind, instead of understanding "I am the sentience in which the body, world and mind appears as Its objects".

The qualified non-dualism of Vishishadvaita disagrees with the above position of Advaita and holds that individual souls are actually parts of the whole of Brahman. However Shankara in his Brahma Sutra commentary offers to the following refutation to those who hold souls to be parts of Brahman (paraphrased): If our souls were parts of the greater whole of Brahman; then, were this whole to exist anywhere, then it must necessarily exist in the parts of which it is made, because if it did not exist within its parts then it wouldn't exist anywhere else and would be non-existent. But if Brahman is the whole, then it cannot exist within its parts, because the whole, by definition, cannot be contained within individual parts which are incomplete components of the whole; because then the same whole would be both the complete whole and the incomplete non-whole, violating the law of non-contradiction. I am not aware if the Vishishtadvaitas ever provided a counterargument to this point.

>> No.16643769
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16643769

>>16643744
>However Shankara in his Brahma Sutra commentary offers to the following refutation to those who hold souls to be parts of Brahman (paraphrased): If our souls were parts of the greater whole of Brahman; then, were this whole to exist anywhere, then it must necessarily exist in the parts of which it is made, because if it did not exist within its parts then it wouldn't exist anywhere else and would be non-existent. But if Brahman is the whole, then it cannot exist within its parts, because the whole, by definition, cannot be contained within individual parts which are incomplete components of the whole; because then the same whole would be both the complete whole and the incomplete non-whole, violating the law of non-contradiction. I am not aware if the Vishishtadvaitas ever provided a counterargument to this point.
holy shit non-stem glorified intellectuals and their mental circuses trying to use logic to pass as legit will always be a joke

>> No.16643786

>>16643769
Do you have a refutation of the point he made? Can you explain why his reasoning is wrong? Otherwise your post is just empty posturing.

>> No.16643790

>>16640917
test

>> No.16643866
File: 28 KB, 540x401, EbOjGkuWAAEtgL6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16643866

>>16641606
You wouldn't do shit in real life tranny

>> No.16643969

To begin with my suggestion would be to familiarize yourself with talks from Mooji, Adyashanti, Rupert Spira.
For reading: Ramana Maharshi, Papaji, Ribhu gita, Ashtavakra gita. Then later, Nisargadatta Maharaj.
Explore teachers until you find someone who gets you closer to peace.

>> No.16644016

>>16643866
I would tho

>> No.16644142

>>16640917
Read about ethical naturalism

>> No.16644153

>>16641189
>dude acid bro

Come on man.

>> No.16644699

>>16643969
>Ashtavakra gita
based. Avadhuta gita is great also.

>> No.16644721

>>16644153
Acid is great and undeniably a spiritual experience.

>> No.16644830

>>16644699
hey, not him but thanks for the rec, I didn't know about that.

>> No.16644889
File: 843 KB, 1630x1328, 1602540635695.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16644889

>>16643340
>>16643744
I would be careful about reading Advaita Vedanta interpretations such as Shankara's as a commentary to the Upanishads, they are extremely reliant on Buddhist philosophy (Shankara is called a "cryptobuddhist" by most Hindus, and most scholars agree). If you want to read the Upanishads, work through them with editions and commentaries that aren't sectarian, or at least read an interpretation that is closer to the original meaning of the Upanishads, rather than Shankara's 9th century AD quasi-buddhism.

>> No.16644905

>>16644889
Die, piece of shit.

>> No.16645439

>>16644699
If you liked those, you may like the Ribhu Gita too. Dr. H. Ramamoorthy has a complete translation of it

>> No.16645459

>>16641013
It's the claim that Atman is the same as Brahman. It has nothing to do with subject-object unity. Read a book for once.

>> No.16645773

>>16644016
not with those dilapidated muscles

>> No.16645842
File: 32 KB, 336x376, doubtposting2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16645842

>>16642764
based schizo monks? what were the zen buddhists huffing to come up with shit like this?

>> No.16645879

>>16640917
Nondualism is cool and all but it has no practical utility therefore all it gives you is "spiritual peace" (i.e. Cope) and is literally just solipsism for pussies.

>> No.16645891
File: 244 KB, 1200x795, main-image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16645891

>>16645842
truth.

>> No.16645910

>>16640917
You don’t. It’s just as infantile as thinking you become invisible to others when you block your eyes

>> No.16645947

>>16645879
I actually think that the reason most people fail to live well, or work well, is because they can't experience nondualism.

Problems in craftsmanship can be down to 'not seeing nondualism'. Understanding that my mindset will alter my work, that the condition of my materials will alter the way I think.

>> No.16645956
File: 126 KB, 768x1024, Alan-Watts-nature-shorter-768x1024[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16645956

>>16640917

>How do I into nondualism?

Listen to this dude talk until you go "oh!"

>> No.16645966
File: 75 KB, 800x600, 1566912695163.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16645966

>>16640927

>Hindu Vedanta

Yeah. Obviously.

>basic thelema

Fucking huh. Cite one example.

>> No.16645978

>>16641057
>If the observer is not separate from the object observed, why do i need to observe it?
The picture which began this thread (you can find it on google images if you search 'non-dualism' may have been drawn by someone with a very superficial understanding of Hindu non-dualism. In Advaita Vedanta, which is what people typically mean by non-dualism unless they specify otherwise; the observer *is* distinct from the observed, in that the observing sentience to whom all thoughts and sensory perceptions are presented as It's objects is Itself absolutely real, and eternal, uncreated, unchanging and formless, whereas the objects which appear within It's luminous awareness are not absolutely real, and they are mortal, composite, mutable and comprised of forms. The way in which they can be considered not separate, is that the omnipresent reality of the conscious observer is the cause and underlying truth of space, time, the universe etc, and that the forms which appear as observed objects, as a manifestation of God's (i.e. the observer) magician-like power are not completely separate from God as a distinct and autonomous reality.

Advaita disagrees with subjective idealism, which holds that there is no physical world outside of our mental ideations, Advaita says that there is this physical world comprised of the elements, space etc and that the forms of objects would not appear in our consciousness without them existing outside of our bodies for us to perceive those forms, but that at the same time that this existing physical world only exists as a contingent realm which is not absolutely real, and that it all takes place as such within the absolute reality of God, which is Itself unchanging and without forms/objects, but that this is not apparent to embodied beings due to them being in the audience so to speak.

The idea of the observer not being separate from the observed more closely adheres to Vishishtadvaita where the soul and objects are both parts of Brahman. When most people first hear of Advaita the idea they form of it at first in their mind before they begin to investigate it in detail often adheres more closely to the metaphysics of Vishishtadvaita then Advaita.

>> No.16645994
File: 604 KB, 771x607, 1555589753006.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16645994

>>16645978

Fucking ace explanation, thanks mate.

>> No.16646050

>>16640997
well, do you feel like god?

>> No.16646288

>>16645956

This.

>> No.16646359

>>16644889
based I would be careful about reading Advaita Vedanta interpretations such as Shankara's as a commentary to the Upanishads, they are extremely reliant on Buddhist philosophy (Shankara is called a "cryptobuddhist" by most Hindus, and most scholars agree). If you want to read the Upanishads, work through them with editions and commentaries that aren't sectarian, or at least read an interpretation that is closer to the original meaning of the Upanishads, rather than Shankara's 9th century AD quasi-buddhism. poster

>> No.16646542

>>16645978
Where should I start reading with Advaita Vedanta, or better yet which one will bring me closer to "enlightenment" and put my soul to rest?

>> No.16646557

>>16646542
>Where should I start reading with Advaita Vedanta
see>>16643340

>> No.16646567

>>16640917
>The observer is not separate from the object observed
Then there is either no observer or no object.

>> No.16646692

>>16646557
Thank you

>> No.16646708

>>16646692
You are welcome brother

>> No.16647141 [DELETED] 

Bump

>> No.16647151

>>16646567
Fox koan.

>> No.16647446

Bump

>> No.16647561

>>16640917
Look into Dzogchen/Atiyoga. It is about remaining in the "ground" of experience which is non-dual and pure. It gives great clarity.

>> No.16648456 [DELETED] 

Bump

>> No.16648489

>>16643340
beware the cryptobuddhist poster >>16646692

>> No.16648516

>>16645956
This dude was a charlatan

>> No.16648531

>>16648489
What is wrong with crypto Buddhists?

>> No.16648535

>>16648516
explain how and if you don't you're admitting you're a huge faggot

>> No.16648541 [DELETED] 

>>16648535
He was a nigger and a fucking negro. Need I say more faggot?
Besides you should be put together enough in your head that you don’t fall for 13 year old girl tier “philosophy”

>> No.16648691 [DELETED] 

Bump

>> No.16648758

>>16648541
It sounds like you're just being contrarian

>> No.16648825

This thread was moved to >>>/his/9701736