Evola?

[Anonymous No.16626332]

Edginess aside
I'm into both fascism and tantrism/esotericism merely out of curiosity, and Evola appears to grapple with both.

Has anyone read him?
Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.16626388]

Just dive in. Most of /lit/ got filtered by Evola and the rest are Guenonfags who mistake their intellectual fiddling over the Vedanta for genuine knowledge.

[Anonymous No.16626496]

One of the greatest thinkers of the modern world, barely understood by 99% of the people who read him.

>>16626388
Agreed, the Guenon people are butthurt about him dissenting from their views but he doesn't give a shit.

[Anonymous No.16626502]

He's okay. Check out Yockey's Imperium too.

[Anonymous No.16626568]

Thanks for your posts in this thread guys
Mulling over his work it all really sticks out to things in interested in, I just hear so much trash talk on him.
I guess i should just go with my gut, I suppose I just wanted to hear your thoughts since you guys seem more genuine than other voices income across

Thanks again

[Anonymous No.16626574]

>>16626568
Yup. Go to juliusevola.net too for neat excerpts on various topics. Good hunting anon.

[Anonymous No.16626594]

>>16626568
Check out his essay Orientations first to get a taste:
https://files.catbox.moe/z6uo7g.pdf
(it's also easily googleable if you don't trust this pdf, just use the gornahoor site, but the pdf seems fine to me)

Where to start with Evola depends on your interest and temperament I guess, I know someone who swears by starting with Doctrine of Awakening and one of the rec charts suggested starting with his book on the Grail (pic related) which is not what I would recommend personally. Then some people say Ride the Tiger or Men Among the Ruins, and others say Revolt Against the Modern World. I am even inclined to say start with Path of Cinnabar, his "spiritual autobiography" (a phrase which instantly signals how interesting he is, in my opinion), but then I've seen people say that's the literal last book you should read since it's the culmination of the others or something.

Just give him a fair shake I suppose. I find Revolt interesting but I think it's a certain temperament that finds the solar symbolism and comparative religions stuff interesting as their first intro.

If you want something even more light that you can jump right into, try Eliade too, maybe either Cosmos and History (also called Myth of the Eternal Return, confusingly) or his books on yoga and/or shamanism.

Guenon is good too. Here's the Evola chart, with decent descriptions although I'm personally not sure of the progression.

[Anonymous No.16626614]

>>16626594
Here's also the Guenon chart which is pretty good although the creator is more into Guenon's Vedanta side than some readers of Guenon might be. I think you could go right ahead and start with Crisis of the Modern World, maybe even Reign of Quantity if you are already philosophically inclined. But YMMV.

Crisis might even be a good intro to reading Evola too.

[Anonymous No.16626613]

>>16626496
>>16626388
Maybe Guenonfags are annoying, but if you are a follower of Evola you have to admit Guénon's importance as well in the development of Evola's thought.

[Anonymous No.16626624]

>>16626594
I have a reasonable understanding of the esoteric topics it seems he hovers around, I would probably start with those
The war or fascist aspects I am less aware of, but I'm interested in as well. Thanks for all the stuff you posted here this is most helpful

[Anonymous No.16626627]

>>16626574
Cool I didn't know there was a website around him
Thanks again

[Anonymous No.16626633]

>>16626594
where's that pdf from?

[Anonymous No.16626636]

>>16626613
Of course we acknowledge Guenon's contributions, but you have to be aware of the trap Evola himself acknowledged, of just passively absorbing Guenon's erudite texts and now following up with any real action towards attainment. It's also important to grasp the seemingly small but important discrepancies they had regarding the caste system, which in turn informs all of their output.

[Anonymous No.16626649]

>>16626624
>I have a reasonable understanding of the esoteric topics it seems he hovers around, I would probably start with those
Start with Revolt then, it's easier to navigate if you already have experience in the occult imo, and gives the most broad overview of his take on things.

[Anonymous No.16626655]

I tried getting into evola multiple times but the writing just feels meandering and pointless. Dunno, it seems like something I Would like, but I just can't get into it.

[Anonymous No.16626799]

>>16626636
Since we're all discussing the differences between tradfriends, I am going to use this opportunity to shill an author I think /lit/ would like a lot, Thomas Bertonneau
https://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/5081

This guy deserves more love (no it's not me)

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.16626842]

I also study and enjoy both, evola Isn’t a fascist and his grasp on tantra and western esotericism are both pretty weak. As a continental he’s fine but as a mystic or as a fascist theorist this ain’t it.

[Anonymous No.16626860]

>>16626842
do you have any recommendations?
i'm extremely interested in tantra, though i find it's not something you can really "write" about beyond methods (which end up being objective tools, and somewhat removed from tantra), and poetry, which i think is the best verbal vehicle for tantra to operate within. it seems a lot more existential/experiential.
i'm really curious on reading up more if you have any recommendations for both tantra and fascism

[Anonymous No.16626862]

>>16626860
also i'm trying to avoid neo-tantra

[Anonymous No.16626875]

>>16626594
A good and reasonable post about Evola? Colour me surprised.
Also I recommend starting with Metaphysics of War, it's reasonably short but really engrossing, and touches on many of the varying subjects he wrote about.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.16626916]

>>16626860

>>16626862

For tantra using both new and source texts read in this order.

Shiva Sutras
Shiva Samhita
(Optional=abhinavagupta commentary of the gita)
Bhairava tantra (112 meditations )
The secret supreme:Kashmir shivaism (very simplified but still good.)
Kali Kaula(skip if you don’t want Neo-tantra+ historical analysis of tantra and its relations to stuff like Taoism and the general arising of Vedanta and Buddhism from the Upanishads and other such )
Tantra Illuminated (Skip if you don’t want modern lit)
Kaulajnananirnaya
Kularnava Tantra
Anandalahare
Matrikabheda Tantra
Spandakarikas
Paratrisikavivirana
Tantraloka (You can also read when you feel up to it the Tantrasara which is a condensed normie friendly version of the tantraloka written by abhinavagupta to give people a tldr)

As for fascism, you gotta begin with Hegel’s thought relating to law, justice, state and so forth so philosophy of right is a great spot to begin as is his science of logic for his ontology and so forth. Then you gotta read the actual main philosopher Giovanni gentile.

Giovanni gentile’s actual idealism which is a modification/radicalization of Hegel’s model is the entire bedrock of Italian fascism. Read his book “Mind as pure act”

There’s really no good texts showing a synthesis of tantra with fascism or the like. Here’s a write up I made showing the relationship (and explaining ) the Tattva ontology of tantra and how it relates to western Kabbalah and a bit of phenomenology.

https://pastebin.com/AjzfzFTk

[Anonymous No.16626986]

>>16626916
>Kali Kaula
by neo-tantra I meant more the western synthesis and selective grab of the sex aspects without any of these things relational to the roots they were born from. I'm still into the sexual and "magick" aspect of it all.

This sounds like a great list though I'll be reading these.

I'm more interested in fascism as a state of mind or sort of embodying philosophy.
My interest around the subject is sort of highlighted by these comments by Mussolini which I'll share in the follow post(s)

This whole post is awesome though holy shit, thank you.

Lastly, I made this post earlier.
>>16624626
Have any thoughts?
The metaphysics on Kali seem really stable in terms of human behavior and the change of tides.

Thanks for all of this though this looks great. I'm glad someone else has been curious about the relationship between these two camps

[Anonymous No.16626991]

>>16626986
Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. It thus repudiates the doctrine of Pacifism -- born of a renunciation of the struggle and an act of cowardice in the face of sacrifice. War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it. All other trials are substitutes, which never really put men into the position where they have to make the great decision -- the alternative of life or death....

...The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide: he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, but above all for others -- those who are at hand and those who are far distant, contemporaries, and those who will come after...

...Fascism is the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society....

After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....

...Fascism denies, in democracy, the absurd conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress


----
It's the spirit of this that I'm intrigued by

[Anonymous No.16626999]

>>16626916
also have you ever come across this?
http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Contents.htm

[Anonymous No.16627024]

>>16626332
I'll be honest with you fella, it's bad, it's really bad
And I thought of it in this way on my fascists years (nowadays I don't care about ideologies), and I forced myself to like it because he is such an interesting figure.
I read both Ride the Tiger and metaphysics of war, and holy fuck those books are trash, and I really mean trash, Ride the Tiger could be a self-help book if it wasn't so edgy. Metaphysics of war is literally "vgh we used to glorify war and our soldiers... It isnt like this nowadays...".
Really, if you like mysticism, just go for the neoplatonists. If you like fascism, just read Hegel's book on political philosophy and de Maistre.
But Evola is just bad. Everyone who reads him is just projecting, he has nothing of value and only glorified as a thinker because Italians had a fascist party after the war and he was the only theory-driven fascist around, if it wasn't for this he would be as forgotten as Gentile.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.16627041]

>>16626986

Yeah kali is a key mahavidya and is a massive topic and has many systems surrounding her, Theres essays and essays worth of material that can be written on kali.

>>16626991

Look into futurism but i would still shill looking into Giovanni gentile, but the spirit and aesthetic you want is a futurism/bataile-esque vibe.

Haven’t read your link and by the time I read it this thread would probably be gone so I can’t really comment on it.

[Anonymous No.16627065]

>>16627041
Anything you'd like to direct in terms of Kali would be appreciated. She's a pretty central figure for me and I'm always looking to try to understand more.

I'll look into Giovanni as well, thanks.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.16627145]

>>16627065

While the name of the book is bad the sources in it are legit.

http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=DCD3308CFAC71785FA7C020154BAB6C3

You’re also gonna want to read the Kalika Purana.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalika_Purana

[Anonymous No.16627179]

>>16626332
I’m reading this now and it’s pretty good

[Anonymous No.16627203]

There's no religion or spiritual path that aligns with fascism. Spirituality is inherently anti fascist, especially tantric buddhism.

[Anonymous No.16627216]

>>16627203
At the end of the day, this. Evola himself considered himself a "superfascist" in that the party as it was manifest in Italy at the time was only a means to an end. Any political system without the spirit as it's ultimate reference point is doomed to circle the drain of illusions.

[Anonymous No.16627221]

>>16627024
That's a lot of words to say nothing of value at all

[Anonymous No.16627223]

>>16627203
uhg
kumbaya that shit elsewhere dude
battle is a spiritual part of reality
there is no dancing without fighting

[Anonymous No.16627230]

>>16627221
Yeah I learned from him

[Anonymous No.16627234]

>>16627203
like seriously, come on

[Anonymous No.16627262]

>>16627234
Kali represents the polar opposite of fascism

[Anonymous No.16627268]

>>16627223
You can kick and scream but that's not what spirituality is about in any tradition

[Anonymous No.16627284]

>>16627216
Fascism is outdated as a political system, but something new will eventually come along that has some elements of it. People are so stuck in the past, and past ways of being when the world needs a new future oriented mythos that takes into account new situations. That's just my own take

[Anonymous No.16627296]

>>16627262
fascism is and was always a tool
germany and italy aren't the only places that have employed it. a number of countries have as a means to an end, and voluntarily dismantled it when its necessity had come to an end
much like kali, who will arise to partake in battle to usurp impotent rulers. she thrives in battle. she loves it. she gets lost in it. she goes psychotic in it. she becomes to frenzied she almost destroys the entire universe.
then she remembers her love for the universe, and voluntarily reverts back to her loving form once the enemy is dead, and there is new ground from which to built anew.

you guys are dreaming if you don't think competition, battle, and heroism aren't spiritual in any fashion.
this is the plight that christianity has sewn unto the world.

[Anonymous No.16627307]

>>16627296
>fascism is and was always a tool
Yeah, but Mussolini was a retart narcissistic faggot. I'm cool with fascist measures, but I could care less about romanticizing the Nazis or old time fascists. The old world is dead and there's no going back, only boring niggers want a never ending evropa disneyland.

[Anonymous No.16627309]

>>16627230
That's the saddest cope I've seen so far lmao

[Anonymous No.16627310]

>>16627284
I agree. As much as I love the Traditionalist school, they have some dire weaknesses it's constituents never really address; that being while Traditionalism offers a clear, undiluted view of the old world, and the world as it is now, they often miss the bigger picture as to WHY these forces are at work in the world.

Life is about evolution, and humanity is not exempt from this rule. We can mourn what we lost, and rage at the desolation of the present, but we still have all the tools we need to work out our own salvation and lay the groundwork for those after us.

A new cycle WILL come about, and we'll recover everything we lost, but on an even higher arc than before, so long as we fight as the warriors we aspire to be. That's the promise inherent in the world of Tradition.

[Anonymous No.16627324]

spare me the pacifism
reality happens in waves
you guys don't have a clue about tantra if you don't think that it incorporates and willingly, actively involves itself in the madness of the world.
shakti loves the drama, pacifists. reality happens in waves. take the totalitarian dogma on "what spirituality is" elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.16627336]

>>16627307
>I'm cool with
>I could care less
>more opinions

I'm not glorifying nazis, i'm talking about the merits of this "spirit" of fascism, which wasn't even intended to mean "spirituality", like what the fuck.

Battle, fighting, war, will ALWAYS happen. ALWAYS.
You see how much tribalistic battle is happening right now despite preaching "antifa"? Can you see how completely ironic this is?
It's a natural aspect of human behavior that will always kick around, and I'm trying to get a better understanding of it.
If you fools think tantra does not incorporate battle into its ideology then you have no idea what you're talking about and you're projecting your own expectations out of it.
Seriously, spare me the twitter shit

[Anonymous No.16627427]

>>16626388
>>16626496
"Guenon notes, Evola’s misunderstandings flow from his philosophical position, which is ultimately incompatible with metaphysics. Evola’s protests don’t ring true, since, as we saw in a recent post regarding Mircea Eliade, the former’s philosophy was integral to his work."

[Anonymous No.16627454]

>>16627324
hmmm hedonism

[Anonymous No.16627467]

>>16627324
>>16627223
>>16627234
t. never heard of the concept of yin and yang, law of polarity, MODERATION

[Anonymous No.16627847]

>>16627467
I really don't understand your point
I was making a case for yin yang, not a case that "spirituality" is absent anything resembling "battle"

Also moderation is a meme to a tantric.
Balance is had through oscillating imbalance, whereby they dive into the deep end of all polarities in temporary transience.
When you have genuine balance, you have pacificity. The truly appreciate balance, imbalance is given a temporary stage and continually rotates.

Try again

[Anonymous No.16627867]

Tantra acknowledges and embraces what is, in all ways, equally. There is no hierarchy in terms of the facets of life. A tantric "loves", makes use of, and makes energy out of all situations they find themselves.
Rotation is the key element that prevents totalitarianism.
Such is life.
Don't put laws on Tantra, even shit I've said has narrowed it somewhat, but is significantly more genuine than your repressive stuff.

[Anonymous No.16628009]

>>16627336
>>16627847
what is the difference between the two and why does it have to be 'dogmatic'?
is it really just 'human nature' that's caused these things, or were they caused because of factors such as poverty, fear, cultural decline, etc.
I do not doubt tantra's existence, but to just let it go as just that: it's simply human nature to be violent, is not just simplifying things but also a part laziness in trying to make things better. The violence already happened, multiple times in fact throughout all of human existence. The real focus should be towards bettering our existence and to teach how to live virtuously. Bloodthirst isn't emergent just out of nowhere -- it can always be fixed through wisdom and love.
Violence is part of the journey, but unification is the end goal. You mustn't align your personal trauma and fixation of violence with what's only a 'side effect' of the grand scheme of things. This is the left hand path where you project your self with the universe, and mistake yourself as god. The truth of the matter is that no one likes getting hurt. Period

[Anonymous No.16628025]

>>16628009
Tantra certainly isnt for unbalanced personalities like the one we see here. They just crumble under their own weight after a while because while they can reach an extreme they lack detachment, so their perception becomes more muddled than anything else.

[Anonymous No.16628101]

>>16628009
>>16628009
>is it really just 'human nature' that's caused these things, or were they caused because of factors such as poverty, fear, cultural decline, etc
Once the drama is engaged in, these aspects, at some point in the flow, yo some degree or another, are inevitable.
You get periods of different balances, but all the players never die.
For every action, equal opposite reaction. Your positive efforts will create "antithesis".
Tantric does not see good and bad. It is just energy.
I can talk about karma, but this is just a requirement for balance that is sold to people as "karma" so they pay attention to balance. Tantric can care or can not care about balance. If nature comes to kill them for misdeeds, the death too is embraced. All is embraced.
The violence will keep happening. You saw it all summer. You live in an infinite, eternal system. There is no "end" to forces at play, just waves. Perhaps millions of years go by with no violence. At some point, it arises again.
What is virtue. What is better. Your virtue? Your better? Your laws. Tantra is not laws. Tantra deals with what is, and makes energy out of ALL things.
If Tantra finds itself in the middle of a war, it becomes war. In a child's daycare, it becomes child.
If you find yourself in war, are you going to rock back and forth in the corner and suck your thumb?
You want to fix bloodthirst but can't acknowledge that it is an intentional function of the universe. Should you fix a wolf? Is nature wrong making the wolf?
You seem to think I view Tantra as war, but this is your own fears you've projected onto the subject. It is just as fearless in love. Above all it is not pacificity, comfort, or repression. Always war leads to collapse. Always love leads to pacification. Oscillate. Yin yang has an oscillating wave through it, notice? It is also all circles, implying motion. Rotation.

So much is undiscovered and unexplored when there is total unity. There is less unique expression and exploration. This is why the tower of Babel happens. Having true diversity in groups and in ideas means there is always battle.

If you can't grapple with that, that's your own business. Humanity can learn to work with these things voluntarily, and wield them, but the cowardice and repression you preach is not synonymous with nature as a whole.

This is not to mean your perspectives don't have merit. Your opinions and energy have merit. Your efforts have merit. They have an effect on the world. But at some point, there is always a trade off for acting. Be it from you or someone else.

[rouport No.16628112]

imagine thinking evola is a fascist, read de maistre lol

[Anonymous No.16628117]

>>16628009
>>16628101
The mistake is to think you are separate from god. You are a part of god. Nature. You are a part of nature, god.
I am humbled by how little I know. I am not better than someone else even if I have abilities or knowledge. Everyone plays their part and has unique qualities that supersede my own. I am aware of forces far greater than my awareness in the universe.
Christianity did a disservice to people making them think they are separate of God.

>The truth of the matter is that no one likes getting hurt. Period
"Some of them want to be abused"
Your empirical stamps about all humans is a fallacy.
If you want to understand + and - better you need to think of it in terms of individuals, whom you come to deeply understand through an absence of selfhood (ayam maya). You'll quickly attune to them. Then you can offer them things they like. Sometimes they like being hurt. Physically, emotionally, egotistically.
I play by environment, not static ideology.

[Anonymous No.16628126]

>>16628025
You get lost in a thing, you just keep yourself open to all things. This is mandatory.
You can never get stuck if you have a profound obsession for all life's aspects.
It's not hard to detach from anything when you can easily dive into anything else and be incredibly stimulated by it.

[Anonymous No.16628135]

>>16627310
No big name Traditionalist has ever expressed a sentiment of returning to the past, which is commonly found among reactionaries. Traditionalists aren't saying we should overhaul modernity and go back to Middle Age feudalism. They are asking how can we live traditionally and preserve our traditions in our modern times which seeks to desacralize everything? To me, it's more of a philosophy of religion focused on the individual than a political project to realize a sort of theocratic utopia.
>they often miss the bigger picture as to WHY these forces are at work in the world.
They answered this question many times. Cosmic cycles, manvantaras, the Fall, etc.
>Life is about evolution, and humanity is not exempt from this rule. We can mourn what we lost, and rage at the desolation of the present, but we still have all the tools we need to work out our own salvation and lay the groundwork for those after us.
We are evolving but negatively. What do you mean by salvation and from what?
>A new cycle WILL come about, and we'll recover everything we lost, but on an even higher arc than before, so long as we fight as the warriors we aspire to be. That's the promise inherent in the world of Tradition.
Not quite. After the Kali Yuga ends, it's a hard reset to Satya Yuga. There is no recovery of the past cycle and the only beings who will be alive to see the next cycle will be the ones who were alive at the very beginning of this cycle. Also, there is no "higher arc than before". A Golden Age is a Golden Age and no one is better than the other.

[Anonymous No.16628137]

>>16628112
I will, thanks friend.

[Anonymous No.16628154]

>>16628101
We're just as much going in circles here just as you just described. At the whole meta of it, the only thing that's ever brought back war is this cling to that motto that 'Violence Will Always Happen, It Has To' ....

But consider that just thinking about this is the reason why these things happen? Violence should be seen more as a side effect of misunderstanding. Should I defend myself and my family if the need arises? Of fucking course, but that doesn't mean it will lead us anymore towards true unity, enlightenment, goodness, etc. etc..

There is no need to fear death. In fact, there's no need to define that as even a thing. I'm not fearful of death but like other things, tantra, kali yuga, etc. is just like what the idea of death is -- it's defined by a word for better conceptualization; to remind us of what's happening at a moment.. But it's only a word. If that's all you think about then you become just that.

But in any case, I digress. This is becoming more of a game of language and it's also starting to become personal

[Anonymous No.16628200]

>>16628154
>But consider that just thinking about this is the reason why these things happen?
I'm aware
We decide what we bring forward, but the forces still exist.
In Tantra, women and children are the best teachers. Women, in honesty, tend to enjoy spectator violence. They will also embrace battle and war against that which has come to feel, say, enslaving or fruitless, dogmatic repressive of energy, many reasons.
So I say again, humanity can wield fighting and violence as both genuine and symbolic, but on agreed terms.
Humanity can wield the necessity for sacrifices and change in life.
But not if humanity does not understand these things. And it won't understand these things through pure ignorance.
In totality, we are meant to appropriately wield, not repress.

Have you ever dated a girl who will start shit just to start shit? She is unconsciously agitating energy. There's much wisdom to be learned here.
This is what you get from a static system, or when some energies have become too dormant and imbalances relative to the "times"

Enlightenment in our general involvement with it is something to visit periodically if it is viewed as only "good". A temporary state to drink from.
When humans understand how to wield, it's my belief they can be enlightened in any environmental context they find themselves in, even war. Refer to the picture I posted above of the enlightenment image while in a state of war.
Because at some point, life expects these things.
You can achieve enlightenment through pacificity as well, I'm not denouncing Buddhists conceptually at all. But to imply their way is the only way is wrong.

[Anonymous No.16628336]

>>16628200
>I'm not denouncing Buddhists conceptually at all. But to imply their way is the only way is wrong.
The middle path is a thing

[Anonymous No.16628495]

>>16628336
My point was that I'm not so sure that enlightenment is always this docile "love they neighbor" sort of thing, but possible to experience while in total accordance with nature, or something.

More than "androgynous efforts", I find oscillation between different ways to be the most growth-inducing. Unabashedly embracing all life has to offer at different times

[Anonymous No.16629633]

>>16628495
Indeed. I'm sorry if I was trying to sound dogmatic towards you or any of the sort. Just afraid about the state of things, I will admit. People tend to raise their ego to unprecedented levels and just become plain delusional, and I'm talking about the o9a types. I'm glad you found your path anon and I wish for the best for what's to come