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/lit/ - Literature

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16617944 No.16617944 [Reply] [Original]

>talking about philosophy with my family
>they all make fun of me for using concepts like "categorical imperative" or "phenomenology"

>> No.16617947

Instinct is always superior to a belief system, just think

>> No.16617959

Don't worry too much you hereditary brainlet, my otherwise smart and skilled father who worked his entire life as an engineer had visible difficulty understanding literally any philosophical concept. The difference between you and me is that I know to not discuss things with people who have not already read up on them.

>> No.16617968

You think that’s bad? I’m a Gypsy, I’ve had people argue with me for saying “English” instead of American and people get visibly angry because I’ve used the word “lower” instead of “slower” when talking about the volume of something and arguments over terms like “basic”.

I’ve had people tell me I’m snotty for using the word “basic” because basic is a “fancy” word.

>> No.16617976

>>16617968
were those other gypsies? Are they anti-intellectual in general?

>> No.16617987

>>16617944
>talking about philosophy with my family
mistake

>> No.16617991

>>16617968

Yes, and yeah we believe reading puts demons inside your head, over 99% of Gypsy even in some place like New York can hardly read and can’t write whatsoever. As in, they do not know how to spell their own names on a piece of paper and will have to call me and oddballs like myself to help them write.

>> No.16617999
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16617999

>My mom's face when I argue from composition that God is Subsistent Being

>> No.16618004
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16618004

>father talking angrily about his car repairman
>"instead of fixing it, he started to philosophize, that fuck!"
>mfw I study philosophy
>he paused for a second, glanced at me quickly
>look, I just meant he should have...
>y-yeah yeah, I understand you

>> No.16618013

>>16617991
shieet, why do they think it puts demons in your head? Even if they are practically oriented, wouldnt it be better to learn to write?

>> No.16618020

>>16617968
>people get visibly angry because I’ve used the word “lower” instead of “slower”
holy shit lol. i had no idea there's actual gypsy communities in the US. bless you

>>16617944
just explain the concepts and how they pertain to the situation rather than using your big philosophy words among people who obviously aren't familiar with them. say what you will about zizek but he's really good at meeting people on their level without dumbing his ideas down. and there's something to be said for being able to rephrase concepts you picked up from others or from books in your own words, it'll help you grasp the essence of the idea rather than just parroting the words

>> No.16618059

>>16618013

Eh I don’t believe it, I mean it would but our culture literally revolves around theft and lying so we actually make more than the average middle class type, we just spend it like niggers. So on one hand we’re not educated but on the other hand we do very well economically and our social unit is so strong that we’re basically a global family unit. So basically we get along pretty well to the point it doesn’t much bother us.

>>16618020

Yeah we’re here we just blend in well, we still do arranged marriages, have our own tribal courts and so on and so forth. We’re mostly centralized into the big cities.

>> No.16618062

>>16617959
It’s you and I, not you and me

>> No.16618067

>>16618062
It's the object of the preposition "between" retard

>> No.16618073

>>16618059
what are your intellectual interests? are there any gypsy thinkers?

>> No.16618082

>>16618062
>>16618067
fucking rekt

>> No.16618105

>>16618073

There’s no Gypsy thinkers, no.

Here’s my favorites list.

philosophers: husserl, hegel, meinong, agrippa, boehme, John Dee, Kenneth grant, Iamblichus, Bertiaux, Abhinavagupta, Deleuze, gikatila, Linji, abulafia, merleu-ponty, Ge-Hong

Writers: Dunsany, huysman, Balzac, ligotti, Thomas brown, Blackwood, Borges, Dante, kafka, Milton, Goethe, Machen, Robert Burton, Johannes Valentinus Andreae, Alessandro di Cagliostro, Basil Valentine


poets: Swinburne, verlaine, Poe, Baudelaire, blake, li-he, al-hallaj, angelus, Hopkin, Robert herrick, Horace, cynewolf, Shakespeare, Chaucer, John Keats, Lu-Yu

Favorite visual artists in no particular order.

1. Gustav Moreau
2. Zbigniew M. Biela
3. Albrecht Dürer
4. Francisco Goya
5. Odilon Redon
6. Rodolphe Bresdin
7. Austin osman spare
8. zdzisław beksiński
9. carlos schwabe
10. Denis forkas
11. mariusz lewandowski
12. Albín Brunovský
13. Salvatore Dali
14. John coultart
15. Francis bacon
16. Sidney sime
17. Harry Clarke
18. William Holman Hunt
19. John William Waterhouse
20. Michael Angelo
21. William Blake
22. Leonardo da Vinci
23. Aubrey Beardsley
24. Max Ernst
25. Jean Delville

So tldr high interest in global religion, philosophy ancient, continental and even analytical, mysticism as a whole and related aesthetic and literary currents. I enjoy writing essays on philosophy, politics, fiction and poetry.

Only other Gypsy I know of who did poetry was a woman who had her family kick her out for doing so and rumor has it her family killed her for writing.

We’re slowly getting a little bit more accepting of intellectualism because Protestantism has made us interested in theology, hermeneutics and so forth but pretty much all of us who are interested in intellectual material get rooted into our Gypsy-only Pentecostal churches, which is a good thing in one sense.

My interests are pretty much just self taught and based on recommendations and so forth.

>> No.16618134

>>16618105
did you just write all that down right now or do you keep a list somewhere in case people ask your faves

>> No.16618151

>>16618105
based, hope they dont kill you at least

>> No.16618168

>>16618134

I maintain lists of my favorites of various things mostly so I can pop on here, post my favorite list and ask for book or art recommendations that are similar. I also take pleasure in lists and categorization itself.

>>16618151

Eh I’m rather private with how much I read and write and so forth so it won’t come out, it’ll be fine.

How about you guys? How have you guys interacted with high anti-intellectualism?

>> No.16618342
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16618342

>>16618168
>How have you guys interacted with high anti-intellectualism?
In real life I have varying results. Usually you can't change someones habits which is really the root of the problem, you can only get them to loosen up their views. The only problem is they then become so open that they are like a giant goatse and then they let anyone stuff anything in there and come back to tell you how you were the stupid one all along. At that point they're so confident in what they've shoved deep down inside themselves that you need to go down to the elbow to get it out.

Online it is nearly impossible of course but you can simply offer people resources and contribute which creates a healthier atmosphere in which to share ideas. Bad actors are easy to spot as they are never really selfless with their ideas.

>> No.16618395

>>16617999
Brayden?

>> No.16618430

>>16617944
They're making fun of you not because you are using jargon, but because you're using them without any explanation as to what they are.

Maybe you should instead say "there's something called categorical imperative which means..." and then use the word once they know it

There's no point in using words that people do not understand without defining them first. They will just think of you as pretentious.

>> No.16618544

>>16617968
You'd better not be a LARPing gadjo

>> No.16618561

>>16618544

Tu hadaus moogo cheeb? Chachemos panav, may sim ghom, chi deklam yek vat-us Ghomen po Internet.

In general whenever someone claims to be a Gypsy online, I vibe check them by speaking fluent Gypsy and watching how they can’t respond and retract their claim.

>> No.16618636

>>16617968
Gypsies being obnoxious tripfags, makes sense.

>> No.16618668

>>16618561

>Tu hadaus moogo cheeb? Chachemos panav, may sim ghom, chi deklam yek vat-us Ghomen po Internet.

Is this the Navy SEAL copypasta?

>> No.16618921

>>16617944
They're not making fun of you for using those concepts, they're making fun of you for using those terms and just smugly expecting them to understand them. If you can articulate your thoughts on philosophy at the level of the present company then don't until you can.

>> No.16618926

>>16618921
If you can't*

>> No.16618999

>>16618168
How do they feel about smartphones; do they use them at all?

>> No.16619001

>>16618668

No I asked “do you understand my tongue, I’m telling the truth, I’m a Gypsy, I’ve never seen even once other Gypsy on the internet.

>> No.16619010

>>16618999

Yes we use Facebook and Instagram a ton but only within our circles, we use it for stuff like expanding our arranged marriage market. (Cost of a wife is around $9500) and keeping connected with each other. It’s majority just images and videos but sometimes we’ll text to speech and it comes off horrible.

>>16618636
Apologies I genuinely only tripfag to save my discussions

>> No.16619081

>>16618168
>how have you interacted
Terribly, I don't shut up had two attempted lynchings

>> No.16619095

>>16618430
>t. someone who has no idea what they're talking about
That's talking down on someone more than just assuming they know what you mean. I generally just push forward and make sure it's understandable from context clues

>> No.16619099

>>16619010
Could I buy a wife or do I have to be gypsy?

>> No.16619102

>>16617944
You should know better than to discuss such things with the uninitiated

>> No.16619109

>>16617968
>Gypsy
>refuses to assimilate to his host country's culture
Like pottery

>> No.16619214

>>16619099

Gypsy only. You have to be both biologically and culturally a Gypsy.

>> No.16619252

>>16619214
Ever watch those Gypsy TV shows? How accurate are they? What do gypos think of SJWs who scold people for saying gypsy instead of traveller or whatever?

I think gypsies are based, even though they tried to scam my friend's granny out of £1000 and he had to fight them. It's just cool to me that your community survived and is so massively distinct from everyone else.

>> No.16619268
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16619268

>>16617944
sucks to be you anon
my grandpa is pretty based
were both the same brand of turbo autism so i can have hours long debates regarding philosophy, religion and physics with him
we probably butcher about 98% of what were saying but its all just baseless casual conjecture anyway so i find it very fun
its also funny because he gets so fucking heated whenever i counter him on a point

>> No.16619292

>>16619252
>Ever watch those Gypsy TV shows?

Yes, they’re all fake or depicting Irish travelers or trailer trash, which is to say, non-Gypsy. We have a lot of traditionalist culture so the second you see a woman wearing pants for example, it’s most likely fake.


>How accurate are they?

0% I’ll link the only one I know is genuine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8o6fO-TOzA

>What do gypos think of SJWs who scold people for saying gypsy instead of traveller or whatever?

We think it’s a meme since 1= were incredibly racist 2=we blast the word Gypsy on all of our churches, go ahead type Gypsy Christian on YouTube you’ll see many results, 3=we will however fake being offended at being called Gypsy since we use it similar to how blacks say nigger, but really that’s just an excuse for us to mess with people.

>I think gypsies are based, even though they tried to scam my friend's granny out of £1000 and he had to fight them. It's just cool to me that your community survived and is so massively distinct from everyone else.

Oh yeah, nazi Germany, USSR, modern western capitalism and so forth nothing has really put a dent in our culture. We’re pretty resistant/immune it seems to modern cultures.

>> No.16619293

>>16617944
Know your audience man

>> No.16619312

>>16619292
Gypsies and Amish hail

>> No.16619326

>>16619292
Where in the US do you live?

>> No.16619333

>>16619292
>but really that’s just an excuse for us to mess with people.
kek I can believe this

So are real Gypsies Romani? I was going to ask you if there was a code or something I could say to get of a situation where a gypsy comes to mess with me, but they're probably Irish. They come by my town quite often with their scams and hustles and intimidation. Would be cool to know a secret way of getting rid of them. Don't lie to me, I know you have things like that.

>> No.16619459

>>16619326

New York but again we live in every major city, we don’t have any markers or clothing to really identify us. We often dress like pseudo-Italians.

>>16619333

Yes Gypsy are Romani and there’s nothing universal because that’s like saying, is there anything I could say to get a German man to stop messing with me, same answer.

Best thing you could do is appeal to their Christianity.

>> No.16619472

>>16619459
TELL ME YOUR SECRET CODES GYPSY, AND DO NOT THINK TO PUT A CURSE ON ME FOR THE LORD PROTECTS ME

>> No.16619480
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16619480

>>16619472

>> No.16620067

>>16619292
>Oh yeah, nazi Germany, USSR, modern western capitalism and so forth nothing has really put a dent in our culture. We’re pretty resistant/immune it seems to modern cultures.

Do you live a nomadic lifestyle then? Apologies if the question is stupid

>> No.16620076

>>16617944
Because they are made up language by pseuds and sophists to explain absolutely nothing of value.

>> No.16620366

>>16618004
god, you sound like a woman. Have you tried not being such a fag? it makes me regret majoring in philosophy

>> No.16620459

>>16617944
Anon, you sound like a wordy faggot. who uses those terms in normal speech? just use simpler language.

now this anon >>16617968 actually is worthy of some pitty.

>> No.16620475

NERD!!!!

>> No.16620480

>>16617944
Good. You should talk about the dialectics of getting pussy fag.

>> No.16620483

>>16617944
Aristotle warned you about knowing your audience which you should understand if you were a true student of philosophy.
Talking to sound smart in front of uneducated people does not make them susceptible to your arguments and instead puts them on guard and casts yourself as a part on an outsider group.
ALWAYS use language your audience will be comfortable with.

>> No.16620495

>>16618105
You should only like David Lynch and John carpenter and if you like anyone else besides them then you’re a massive ducking fag and should commit hero

>> No.16620500

>>16617944
Know your audience.

You can can pick your friends, not your family.

>> No.16620508

>>16619292
>Gypsy
>culture
Pick one

>> No.16620542

>>16619292
Well this has been an unexpected learning experience this thread.

>> No.16620552

>>16620500
Shut up tranny

>> No.16620567

>>16617944
nobody cares about philosophy, faggot. it's a hobby of the idle rich.

>> No.16620574

>>16617991
THis is true but it can also plant angels in your mind

>> No.16620582

>>16618544
>>16618561
Wait, gypsies have a language? I thought they spoke Romany

>> No.16620585

>>16617968
That's just sad bro

>> No.16620603

>>16620500
You don't 'pick' anything. Freewill doesn't exist.

>> No.16620651

>>16618067
I knew he was wrong but that's just by experience, what book can I read to learn the terms and minutia of English? Such as object and preposition and their functions and definitions

>> No.16620668

>>16617944
You should always translate big words or concepts into simpler more english words when talking philosophy with underlings.

>> No.16620689

power level applies to more than just anime... never reveal kthnx

>> No.16620690

>>16620495
lynch is a favorite

>>16620067

Depends on what you mean by nomadic, Many Gypsy in Europe are nomadic as In living in trailers while also being wealthy. I’ve seen folks with rolls Royces living out of trailers, American Gypsy are more likely to serial rent apartments, sue them for about a year free to live there then leave, rinse repeat.

>>16620582

Yes but we call Romani “gho-man-ess” in our language.

>> No.16620703

>>16618059
At least for a gypsy you admit your people are white niggers.

>> No.16620710

>>16617944
Its because you use big brain words for someone not acquainted with it
Introduce 'phenomenology' in speech they understand
They might think its mistifying nonsense anyway but using big words is just obfuscatory

>> No.16620733

>knowingly uses language people he is speaking to are unfamiliar with
>why are they mocking me for being an "other" instead of worshiping my superior intellect!
I don't think you were using those terms in good faith, frankly.

>> No.16620811

>>16620483
4chan wouldn't exist by that stupid

>> No.16621400

>>16617944
Shut the fuck up, Niles.

>> No.16621832
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16621832

OP isn't upset that people don't understand him. He's upset because, when faced with a difficult subject, people will actually mock you for knowing more than them.

>> No.16622589

>>16618168
Don't you think keeping lists of things you like is dishonest?

>> No.16622639

>>16618105
That’s a pretty eclectic list gypsy anon. What’s with all the mysticism and Kabbala? Are you just saying those names or are you genuinely interested in all that. If so, why? And is mysticism a big part of gypsy communities?

>> No.16623115

>>16617959
/thread

>> No.16623122

>>16617991
>reading puts demons inside your head
Based.

>> No.16623156

>>16622589

Not at all.

>>16622639

Nope, I’m just personally big into esotericism and mysticism, it’s also not just name dropping, for fun I like to write occult and philosophical essays.

Here’s one where I compare the tantric Tattva ontology to the kabbalistic sephiroth schema to Western phenomenology

https://pastebin.com/AjzfzFTk

Here’s one where I critique Hulme’s essay contrasting classicism to modernism

https://pastebin.com/AjzfzFTk

And here’s a few poems which demonstrate my influences pretty clearly.

Orange Eidelion


past orange land and orange sky I cross
“it shall be four hundred times, yet I will not be content”
Event, I, Door, Eidetic, La, Idol, Oh, Not
darting towards the center of the Air
i went there so many times, nothing seems to change my mind
organon, Roar, Aleph, Night, Guilt, Ephemeral
there is neither blue nor silver nor dross
divide, re-arrange time, times, half a time in a moment
its eye roars from my void, a door of the endless
both formless and shapeless yet I am there
“obey our old order, organ of oblivion
evil nocturnal images do not plague me
I see regret and upon my tongue loss
yet it was not an order, they led me between spaces
the graven impermanence cries out “O and Naught”
orange and not circle, point, cross or square
without pattern or order, a mirror eidelion
i gazed upon the thundering beast with my eye
everything dissolves and loses its gloss
the checker patterned image, his ever morphing faces
when I stared at him I forgot what I forgot
in that hour the orange light pervades
they are all my own image, the orange of my own not
into and through the royal blue pearl gate I fly
leaving a image of an orange land
all bound into one image, not I, all other places
I rejected them all
Orange eidelion came to the land of thought
where regret and triumph always parades
an image of an image, wailing lion of my naught
beyond my heart’s Jewel, Orange Eidelion

Incomplete hymn

Pay khako lumia besekali
For you I recite this Dharani
Tu son o jhacho Skhup-ee-tori
For you are true Satori
Great king of glory
Baruch Atah HaShem Auri
evlogimenos kai panemorfi mas Duumviri
I know you are always near Me
Be thou what thou art and Wilst to be
Hum varenyam dhiyo savitur dheemahi
The Great Essence beyond Bhavani
Beyond even maha-besekhali
You are all that I will to see
In might I shall invoke the three


May simas ondah soomahji
Mooga yelo duudeeli
Ahvav undah jhangesti
Deekav pay chi cheti

>> No.16623165

>>16623156

Monsters melancholy

Bent and torn and twisted, Monsters melancholy
I have no purpose here, I do not belong here
Everything is now clear, i dwell in the great fear
Light only reveals dark, striving and rest are Folly
Linji or Plotinus, Even patanjali
My illusions are gone, everything disappears
Emptiness is not rest, hidden forbidden spheres
Flesh mangled to cover, hollow hole of Eli

My soul was like a star, dark is the inmost part
A spirit of the air, now bound to the dark Sea
Lost what was never had, Anguish is being Free
No I and no thou remain, the Sphere is apparent
Sit but do not forget, The Void is your own Heart
Birth or upon your death, Hidden light Aberrant

Look upon the aberrant Light, the light of the void, it is not black and it is not white, it does not full but it drains and pulls. Look upon the aberrant light and your Face becomes its mask.

My bigger poems are in a mix of fourteeners in terza Rima because I really really like the idea of writing like a mixture of Blake and dante, but I’m under no illusions about my lack of skill.

Why am I interested? Because I love god and spiritual knowledge the sole reason I learned to read is having the Bible read to me at like, 5 years old. If I didn’t have any spiritual interests I’d likely also be another Gypsy who cannot read and cannot write his own name.

>> No.16623210

>>16620703
All white people on the planet are white niggers

>> No.16623240

>>16620690
Wait what do you mean sue them for about a year to live there? I also want to do this, I hate working. Can I join you?

>> No.16623254

>>16623240

Eh we have various lawyers and they will make complaints that the landlord did such and such bad behaviors and broke this or that thing in a contract. It’s mostly just done through us getting scummy lawyers tossing them a thousand or two and boom you’re good.

I personally haven’t done it but every single one of my family members has.

>> No.16623294

Speaking on anything regarding philosophy to people without interest is an autist move

>> No.16623515

>>16623294
Correct, which is why Socrates did it, and now we have computers

>> No.16623562
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16623562

>>16618062
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNKKKKKKKEDDDDDDDD ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>> No.16623618

>>16617944
my father laughs at my ignorance when i say materialist as related to materia instead some kind of consumism.
we need so many words its sad.