/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16617314]

>read Nietzsche
>understand that Christianity maybe isn't as great as I thought
>be right-wing, understand that "Christian theology is the grandmother of Bolshevism." - Oswald Spengler
Am I seeing this from a wrong perspective? Machiavelli in his works praised the ancient religion for the morality they had and the church burnt his books.
Is there any religious/spiritual system compatible with my views?

[Anonymous No.16617542]

>>16617314
why do people are so eager to put themselves into boxes? "I'm left winger recc lit, I'm right wing recc me.." Shouldnt it be the other way? You read shitloads of literature then you start defining yourself off of what you've read. Otherwise its just a feast of retarded confirmation bias.

[Anonymous No.16617552]

>>16617542
> You read shitloads of literature then you start defining yourself off of what you've read. Otherwise its just a feast of retarded confirmation bias.
Recommendations?

[Anonymous No.16617554]

You're just trying to find a religious belief system to support your already held beliefs. If you can't logically confirm any religion to be true, just abandon religion then, don't be a larper

>>16617542
This. Don't trap yourself into an eco chamber.

[Anonymous No.16617565]

>>16617554
>If you can't logically confirm any religion to be true, just abandon religion then, don't be a larper
Atheism is a religion in itself. Certainly not theoretically but definitely practically.

[Anonymous No.16617585]

>>16617552
Read greeks. While you're reading them, search for modern philosophy that is to your interest. E.g. read Plato's Republic and Foucaults "Discipline and Punishment". Add some fiction and you have something to do for at least a couple of years until you'll start seeing the spirit of Western culture manifest in your room. Then you'll be able to see trough pseudery and will have your own stance on things.

[Anonymous No.16617596]

>>16617552
Read people who aren't dichotomyfags
Left right or center?
Into the garbage it goes.

[Anonymous No.16617609]

>>16617596
Alright.
>>16617585
Thanks

[Anonymous No.16617620]

You would have to further explain your views. But know that even with the Greeks there can be a huge rift between religious forms even though they began with the same myths.

[Anonymous No.16617667]

>>16617620
Well essentially Christianity promotes slave morality and glorifies the last, the meek, the weak, the poor. It's a complete subversion of human hierarchy.

[Anonymous No.16617735]

>>16617667
Can you tell me why Christianity promotes slavery and why it subverts the human hierchy?

You're making the claim with assurance but I am curious if you've further understood the counter argument in the new testament or are you just echoing what you've read without critique?

[Anonymous No.16617748]

>>16617314
>Is there any religious/spiritual system compatible with my views?
No, just embrace naked culture itself, that way you are always on the right side.

[Anonymous No.16617755]

>>16617542
Read Deleuze, it's a desire capturing mechanism put in place by capitalism.

[Anonymous No.16617759]

>>16617735
>Can you tell me why Christianity promotes slavery
Slave morality, very simple.

A man rapes a child, as a Christian we should forgive him.

Some 32 year old refugee male, who has fought in wars and cant read or write end up on your shore, as a Christian you should help him.

A healthier way of thinking would not see you do either of these things, Christian morality is designed to let the strong walk over the weak.

[Anonymous No.16617765]

>>16617667
>slave morality
>hierarchy
Your statement contradicts itself. All wealth is based on the passing of labor to a slave, an animal, a machine. Jesus’s morality is to be a payer of debts rather than a creator of debts. He promotes the Superman in the same way nietchze does, saying that there is a new human that does not create debt. You can interpret debt also as guilt, which is paid by forgiveness. Jesus says that the guilt we feel is caused by creating debt, which gives us a sense of loss, that we’ve fallen. I think it’s poignant that in the Adam and Eve myth, both Adam and Eve attempt to pass their guilt onto someone else. So, Jesus’s message is empowering. Does it mesh with the world we live in? No, but neither does Nietzches concept of the super man. A new man always makes a new world.

[Anonymous No.16617769]

>>16617755
>capitalism
A lot of the left confuse capitalism with human nature. Most of the time its just human nature thats at fault and not capitalism. They have to make it capitalism, because then you create the illusion that you could fix it.

[Anonymous No.16617775]

>>16617765
Wrong, a strong man would life with debt and survive.

[Anonymous No.16617808]

>>16617735
It promotes pity, which undermines life.

[Anonymous No.16617835]

>>16617775
Even in Maslows hierarchy, basic survival needs are at the bottom. Christianity is about the more jungian concepts of self actualization. I personally don’t take it as religion but as a mythology as Joseph Campbell explains it, a way to come into maturity. It’s more about the idea of valuing life over material wealth as the fundamental source of joy. I mean, of course you have to survive, since your body has needs, but there’s an unbalance where the Ego goes too far, the addiction behaviour like your average guy on wallstreet.

[Anonymous No.16617855]

>>16617314
Spengler claims Nietzsche is wrong to attribute slave morality to christianity, and rather those with slave morals are attracted to religions in general. Think about it, why did Egypt have slave morality, India, and China. The Greco Romans clearly lacked it, and the Arabs clear had it as does the west. So what features did these cultures share, obviously not Christianity. For Spengler it is a difference in space and time, time being master space being slave.

Also Spengler saying Christian theology is the grandmother of Bolshevism isn't really a critique of Christianity, its a explination of the spirtual morphology cultures go through from theological to nihilistic. Our mystical forms were Christian our nihilism is socialism, both have set constant themes in the west of boundless space but had we not christianity we would have ended with nihilism none the less.

[Anonymous No.16617861]

>>16617835
uhm was is your argument, that you should let pedophiles rape your child, because sel-actualization is more important then basic laws and moral rules that govern society.

Pity and forgiveness are fine between friends and colleques, where someone might get angry or say something they dont mean, I understand letting sleeping dogs lie down, but beyond that forgiveness and pity quickly become sick and twisted.

The whole problem with the West today is that we dont seem to react when someone hurts us or insults us and keeps doing it, such an attitude requires a response.

[Anonymous No.16617870]

>>16617855
>those with slave morals are attracted to religions in general.
Agreed, basically, or more accurately mysticism, the rational side of religion rarely attracts slave morality. Slaves dont read Aristotle, but they do like Plato. Everything to get away from the harshness of reality.

[Anonymous No.16618087]

>>16617769
I think the argument is that untethered capitalism essentially subsidizes the most negative aspects of human nature

[Anonymous No.16618101]

>>16617552
Currently reading Aristotle, any good?
Pic related

[Anonymous No.16618108]

>>16617552
Read "On Self Reliance" By Ralph Waldo Emerson. It's a fairly short essay.

[Anonymous No.16618143]

>>16617759
>>16617808

You two misunderstand, study the philosophy of Christ, the book of Matthews, without someone doing the thinking KJV, this is not what Christ told us.

[Anonymous No.16618166]

>>16617314
You posted this same exact thread yesterday you fat mongoloidic retard.
Also
>Is there any religious/spiritual system compatible with my views?
Religion is meant to be found the exact opposite way, you're LARPing.

[Anonymous No.16618183]

>>16617542
This and this is exactly what I intend to do.
I know what things I do not believe in (at this time) and I know what things I do, but I refuse to say that I fall under any ideology because I know that I'm way too ignorant. There is no way I understand any one ideology on an expert-level to say that I AM that thing. I will learn as much as I can and (hopefully) have constantly evolving views.
People nowadays choose a label and then do whatever they can to fit into that label.

[Anonymous No.16618199]

Begome Platonist.
>inb4 b-but the Christians are Platonists
No they're not. This is just a Christian cope. Christian adopted the meme form of Platonism, muh other world of forms.

[Anonymous No.16618232]

>>16618143
>this is not what Christ told us
He told us to condemn life's evaluation based on an afterlife and to desire to increase suffering and class differences on earth? Really? Because that's the resulting philosophy when you reject the philosophy of pity.

[Anonymous No.16618317]

>>16618232
He said distance yourself instead of striking back or create a situation where nobody can harm you via a shield but no sword. He doesn't say give up your rights and become a slave to a master,
>Love your neighbour, AS THYSELF


he doesn't promote self harm. He also expects you to get angry when you have a reason to, and warns us about the opposite.

The idea: to love your enemies is the final level in empathy, to transcend into immortality; vs looking at the world exclusively through the flesh and the flesh's desires which if we look at history, need I say more?

He never told us to open borders and to kill those who oppose our system, if they stubbornly do not change then you are expected to give up because they will learn the hard way.

Clearly, Nietzsche was too busy contemplating, to understand the reasoning behind the reasoning(read it again if this confuses you) for why something was written.

[Anonymous No.16618408]

>>16618317
>He said distance yourself instead of striking back or create a situation where nobody can harm you via a shield but no sword.
Nietzsche says this too, but for the purpose of creating greater class differences and tragic conditions on earth. Is that what Christ meant?

>The idea: to love your enemies is the final level in empathy, to transcend into immortality
Immortality is reaching, but Nietzsche also taught to love your enemies.

>He never told us to open borders and to kill those who oppose our system, if they stubbornly do not change then you are expected to give up because they will learn the hard way.
This is essentially Nietzsche's political philosophy as well.

Christ =/= Christianity, by the way. I was testing you. Nietzsche acknowledged his similarities with Christ.

[Anonymous No.16618515]

>>16618408
>but for the purpose of creating greater class differences

By this do you mean distinguishing you(an isolated devout)rself among mediocrity when in judgement? Then yes, that's my interpretation of Christ's words and my personal target. We can see Christ initially in his journey enter isolation and throughout he separates from the masses into reflection and prayer.

>for the purpose of creating..... tragic conditions on earth
Do you mean avoiding tragic conditions on earth?
If so then yes, partly
If you meant as it is written my reply is:
If in -complete- separation how can you then create chaos
>Immortality is reaching
My interpretation from Christ was: No (chaotic) basic normal mortal is going to aspire to true greatness(immortality). It is the immortal that can dominate his urges and be pragmatic, connect this with Christ and eternal life

>Christ =/= Christianity
Bringing the idea of the broad path to destruction and narrow path to eternal life to light

>I was testing you.
I too partly but in a manner to extract information on N without immediate labour(on my list)

[Anonymous No.16618555]

>>16617542
It's easier and less stressful

[Anonymous No.16618644]

>>16618515
>By this do you mean distinguishing you(an isolated devout)rself among mediocrity when in judgement?
Yes.

>Do you mean avoiding tragic conditions on earth?
No, creating them. It was such conditions that allowed the Greeks to create the art form of tragedy, which was the high point of Greek art, as it celebrated the greatest number of wills and consequently affirmed life better than the other arts.

>If in -complete- separation how can you then create chaos
What do you mean by complete separation?

>It is the immortal that can dominate his urges and be pragmatic
Then immortal = Overman and yes, the idea is to love your enemies and reach this state.

>Bringing the idea of the broad path to destruction and narrow path to eternal life to light
What I meant was that Christianity = Protestantism for Nietzsche. So when he calls Christianity a religion of pity and rejects it, he's rejecting Protestantism (not that he's in support of Catholicism, but I digress).

[Anonymous No.16618818]

>>16617755
It's just tribalism. People want to flag themselves to their in-group.

[Anonymous No.16618859]

>>16618644
>No, creating them.

Creating them for yourself, I think it should be reworded to: more about challenging yourself to become greater.

“That which is ready to fall, shall ye also push!”- N
Creating them for others, I disagree

because there's no need to accelerate the inevitable, a lesson is doing it's work via time. Sounds like you're reasoning yourself to murder because it'll end their suffering, and, your fallibility will create problems(the law of karma).

>What do you mean by complete separation?
Assuming you meant creating tragedies for others then my thinking in response would be, we already agreed on the importance of isolation, if you're isolated devoutly then you have no contact, not finger on society(direct), nor a word seducing an accomplice(indirect), therefore you can't create tragedies for others

>Overman and yes
N to my knowledge places this title onto warlords(Napoleon iirc) and Jesus. A warlord fails to dominate his urges, he is quick to grab a sword and disregards the third answer to the question: "Do we fight or do we become slaves?"....

The answer is akin to creating a cliff around the castle, or building a river with crocodiles defending the castle(Shield but no sword = maximum defense = the third path = what Christ encouraged)

>So when he calls Christianity a religion of pity and rejects it

By this I think better words would have been a critique on the masses who are slow to understand the true meaning in Christ but are easily deceived by those doing the interpretation and by those instructing(priests/fathers)

The insult(which N seems to enjoy employing)creates emotion and captivates(even if the ideas are wrong akin to propaganda) but delivers no guide, the reasoning behind the insult creates a guide therefore reasoning trumps insults if we wish to see results.

[Anonymous No.16618879]

>>16617314
>Is there any religious/spiritual system compatible with my views?
religion is not a lifestyle, religion is not a good of consumption you don't pick it like a jacket fucking zoomer

[Anonymous No.16618972]

test

[Anonymous No.16619032]

>>16618859
>there's no need to accelerate the inevitable
Art is not inevitable, it must be willed into existence, and the higher the art that is willed the greater the sacrifices that must be willed for it.

>Sounds like you're reasoning yourself to murder because it'll end their suffering
Ending suffering is not the goal. Though, making the cause of suffering concealed and difficult to detect was a political interest of Nietzsche's.

>Assuming you meant creating tragedies for others then my thinking in response would be, we already agreed on the importance of isolation, if you're isolated devoutly then you have no contact, not finger on society(direct), nor a word seducing an accomplice(indirect), therefore you can't create tragedies for others
The conditions of the tragic art of the Greeks relied on slavery and class difference in Greece. Being hard on oneself is vital, but one can't push art higher all alone past a certain point.

>N to my knowledge places this title onto warlords(Napoleon iirc) and Jesus.
He didn't place the title onto anyone who had existed, but only referred to certain individuals as close examples so that we would have an idea as to what conditions would be required to create such an individual. In all examples, great suffering and class difference were among those conditions. Inequality in the world has to become greater so that our art can become greater.

>By this I think better words would have been a critique on the masses who are slow to understand the true meaning in Christ but are easily deceived by those doing the interpretation and by those instructing(priests/fathers)
I disagree, because that wouldn't capture the essence of his critique, which was a rejection of the feeling that inequality and suffering should be reduced because one has become soft towards those tormented. Such a feeling eventually deprives the men of art of their instincts for art.

[Anonymous No.16619064]

>>16617314
read jung normie

[Anonymous No.16619374]

>>16619032
>Such a feeling eventually deprives the men of art of their instincts for art.

Many good things in come out of the heart but we cannot deny the bad

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

--------------------Art has to be approached carefully, I am a firm believer of these two excerpts

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

[Anonymous No.16619389]

>There is more strength in forgiveness than in offense, there is more strength in repair than in error.

Take that, nietzschean powermongers

[Anonymous No.16619411]

>>16619389
FEET

[Anonymous No.16619423]

>>16619411
?

[Anonymous No.16619486]

>>16619374
>All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
They must also be nourished in man, if there is to be great art. Men of art must also learn to not call them evil things.

[Anonymous No.16619675]

>>16619486
Art isn't the ultimate treasure

[Anonymous No.16619699]

>>16619675
What is the ultimate treasure, in a world where this life is all that there is?

[Anonymous No.16619781]

>>16617755
Cringe
Never read trash

[Anonymous No.16619809]

>>16617667
Well, just start reading the myths. But keep in mind that an understanding of them is difficult for moderns, even more difficult than understanding Christianity.

[Anonymous No.16619834]

>>16619389
>strength
Powermonger.

[Anonymous No.16619851]

>>16617565
You can abandon religion without being an atheist.

[Anonymous No.16619878]

>>16617759
That’s a gross misunderstanding of forgiveness and help.
A rapist should be forgive after he has repented and accepted his punishment, which could justifiably be tying him to a millstone and drowning him in a lake.

An illiterate refugee far from home should be given charity and hospitality provided he follows the customs of the community he is in. Should the refuge err, he should be punished, and if he repents, should be forgiven like all others.

[Anonymous No.16619892]

>>16618101
man does not desire happiness: only an Englishman is capable of thinking that man desires his own happiness
t. Nietzsche from Will to Power

Nichomachaen Ethics is Eudaimonistic bullshit. Virtue=Reason= Happiness Randian bullshit.

[Anonymous No.16619938]

>>16618408
>but neetch said that
Cringe cope

[Anonymous No.16619951]

>>16619892
Given that the will to happiness completely btfo the will to power it's pretty clear that man desires happiness

[Anonymous No.16619967]

>>16619951
No one strives for their own happiness besides losers and women.

[Anonymous No.16619978]

>>16619967
Nice cope loser.

[Anonymous No.16619997]

>>16619978
Happiness is a cope FOR losers, retard. People who are already happy don't pursue it, obviously. You have to be a loser to even give a shit. If any great artist or inventor pursued their own happiness, they wouldn't have made art or invented anything then.

[Anonymous No.16620001]

>>16619997
Imagine being this retarded.

[Anonymous No.16620003]

>>16617314
>mind blown by Nigtzche
I remember when I was a teenage pseud

[Anonymous No.16620009]

>>16620001
Not an argument, loser. Go worship Osho or whatever dumb shit you do on your spare time.

[Anonymous No.16620017]

>>16620003
t. never understood it

[Anonymous No.16620025]

>>16620009
>the neetch incel wants arguments now
Oh no no no

[Anonymous No.16620030]

>>16620017
>loading neetch argument 0
Beep boop

[Anonymous No.16620033]

>>16619389
said who? your priest as you sucked his dick?

[Anonymous No.16620036]

>>16620025
If you want your perspective to not look retarded as fuck, yes, you need to make one.

[Anonymous No.16620048]

>>16620017
And you did Psued? Lol. Nietzsche fundamentally misunderstood the subjects he talked about.
So pretending like it was big brain is just admitting that you don't understand the subjects either.

[Anonymous No.16620054]

>>16617314
Yes, racialist Buddhism. Go listen to ‘Right Wing Dharma Squads’

[Anonymous No.16620077]

>>16620030
>>16620048
Imagine not getting Nietzsche. Sucks to be you.

[Anonymous No.16620101]

>right wing
what views do you have? what views does the right wing hold?
don't answer this question because it can't be answered..
but short answer. no. there are not any religions that have beliefs inline with racism and genocide

[Anonymous No.16620107]

>>16617314
they're talking about western christianity, try eastern christianity

[Anonymous No.16620114]

>>16620077
>nooooo it's whatever I want
>me me me
Being an eternal infant isn't hard to get, it's just pathetic.

[Anonymous No.16620121]

>>16620033
No, i said.
Just do one exercise:
try to forgive someone who did something very wrong and bad to you. I mean to really and truly forgive that person

Just try and see how hard.

[Anonymous No.16620127]

>>16620048
filtered

[Anonymous No.16620130]

>>16620114
Wikipediafag confirmed.

[Anonymous No.16620147]

>16620130
>16620127
Neetch redditors

[Anonymous No.16620153]

>>16620147
>reddit
the last gasp of a dumbass

[Anonymous No.16620154]

>>16617314
>compatible with my views
I'm not endorsing Christianity, but this shopper's mentality is the disease of the modern era. The only way your condition could be satisfied is if you were right all along. And that's what you crave -- for the minds of the ancients to confirm you were right all along.

[Dorkulus No.16620280]

>>16617314
why don't you uncuck yourself and form your own opinion dweeb, or did you not just read Nietzsche?

[Anonymous No.16620285]

>>16620077
So disagreeing with someone's retarded opinion is "not getting" their view now? Peak Psued.

[Jesus No.16620289]

>>16617542
stupid pederasts engage in self identification to avoid responsibility.

[Anonymous No.16620292]

>>16617314
what a fucking myopic view on things.

[Anonymous No.16620311]

>never reads a solid Catechism
>never read a solid entry level theology manual
>never reads the Denzinger
>never reads a good ascetic theology

>read Nietzsche and Spengler
>"woa they're so right"

Idk man

[Anonymous No.16620322]

>>16620311
Lacks some "s"es eh

[Anonymous No.16620331]

>>16620285
>intentional misrepresentation
>calls me the pseud
lel

[Anonymous No.16620335]

>>16620311
IKR. Im not christian, but like 90 percent of the people who make a claim like op read Nietzche and like maybe have a dialogue of Plato just accept the firsts veiw of things offhand without even engaging in the subject matter they are critiquing. Its kind of baffling. They never gt into ontology or epistomology or changing viewpoints of morality or anything nuanced. They just parrot "slave morality" like a fucking puppet without even the slightest hint of self awareness.

[Anonymous No.16620336]

>>16617314
>be right-wing
You must be 18 or older to post here.

[Anonymous No.16620355]

>Is there any religious/spiritual system compatible with my views?
When you come to understand what you just asked you will despair. Your worldview does not lend itself to religion outside of whatever mental theme park you consider ideological.
You have failed on your quest before you even started. I suggest reading Lyotard's post-modern condition as a starting point

[Anonymous No.16620389]

>>16617314
>dude tell me what my label is so i know what to put in my twitter bio
"no"

[Anonymous No.16620460]

>>16618317
>(read it again if this confuses you)

my fucking sides what a pretentious big brain thing to say.
please teach us more

[Anonymous No.16620904]

>>16617542
finally an actual person in this board

[Anonymous No.16621312]

>>16617755
>>Read Deleuze, it's a desire capturing mechanism put in place by capitalism.
lol that proves deleuze is a hack, like any marxist