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/lit/ - Literature

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16593078 No.16593078 [Reply] [Original]

Fahrenheit 451 is actually good.

>> No.16593135

How is that an unpopular opinion

>> No.16593151

Wow anon. So brave.

>> No.16593154

Modern books are better than old ones.

>> No.16593163

I think its good for the chase scene at the end alone. But it isnt great

>> No.16593173

>he thinks the "since I read it in high school it must be a bad book" meme is real

>> No.16593174

Audiobooks are better

>> No.16593187

Unpopular to /lit/
>Hemingway is a great writer
>Steinbeck is also a great writer
>The only reason people think otherwise is because they became a model for hundreds of postmodern writers to mimic, making their style boring and simple.
Generally unpopular-
>Feminism was a mistake
>Hitler did nothing wrong

>> No.16593225

>Unpopular on /lit/:
Fiction > Nonfiction >>> Philosophy
>Unpopular on 4channel:
Feminism/Women's Rights are a good thing
All races are inherently equal

>> No.16593249

The roomantic philosophers who harp on the need for poetry, living, loving, etc. in philosophy are so fucking pathetic.
Stop being overly pessimistic but for fucks sake also stop being so (human) optimistic.
I hate:

>> No.16593254
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assblasted anglo detected

>> No.16593264

>they're only boring and simple because you've read a bunch of other authors
This is a terrible argument dude.

>> No.16593266

the english are worse at this since they dont even have the foundational philosophy to base this romanticism on; their romanticism is vapid and not to be taken seriously philosophically
I want to add:
>analytical philosophy never even needs to be mentioned.

>> No.16593267

Bradbury is a fucking bore and he couldn't write flowery prose even if you pressed a gun to his temple.

>> No.16593276
File: 165 KB, 838x644, Hoelderlin_PubliekDomein.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

OP here. Hölderlin is everything to me. Take the romantic pill. Goethe and Schiller are classical. Goethe hated romanticism.

>> No.16593279

Homer translates better to prose than verse, because the verse style of old Greek is completely different to English, making a translation to verse just senseless and just inconvenient, thus making it harder to translate the actual content.

-The agricultural revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
-A population maximum of 500 million must be maintained.

>> No.16593286

Holy reddit

>> No.16593289

>Goethe hated romanticism.
goethe hated everyone (who was philosophically or through literature acclaimed) who wasnt him, so that doesnt say anything, and he hated especially those who imitated him when he was already moving on to his next phase.

>Dude got filtered by Kant only to at the end of his life to slowly see the light that is Kant.
>In short: Goethe is never to be taken seriously even if his works (ON THEIR OWN) are sublime

>> No.16593297

Disagree that the reason their style seems boring is that they were mimicked by postmodernists. I think it's more that they subscribe to largely straightforward realism and don't write with any kind of pyrotechnics, which most people on this board (myself included) typically prefer. In addition to that, they don't tend to go after big, complicated ideas (I'll qualify this by saying that they don't go after meaty philosophical stuff the way that a lot of other modernists and postmodernists do), and they're frequently assigned in high school, making them easy pickings for folks more partial to "patrician" lit (think Melville, Dosto, Nabokov, Pynchon, Gaddis, etc.) to make fun of.

>> No.16593306


>> No.16593317

do americans really?

>> No.16593318

We should ban all theory threads

>> No.16593397

if you're not at least somewhat engaged with/interested in contemporary literature you're just a pitiful little custodian

>> No.16593420

Milton isn't very good, sonnets aren't very good. Shakespeare's best works are his lyrics.

>> No.16593464

the obsession of this board with philosophy broadly and the ancients in general makes it 1000% more boring than it could be otherwise

>> No.16593478

alright now we gon' fight

>> No.16594084

I have a few, not sure if they are unpopular though.

I read the catcher in the rye, and it was pretty comfy, I have no idea why there is so much hate for this book here.

All Houellebecq's novels are pretty much the same:
>30-40yo main character
>literally no ending

Sherlock Holmes is boring (or maybe it's just not my cup of tea)

1984 is really average

It's hard to remember all the names from Dostoevsky's novels

>> No.16594093
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Spanish literature is superior to english literature. And that's a fact.

>> No.16594113

We know

>> No.16594720

Master and Margarita is overrated garbage

>> No.16594730

>Feminism/Women's Rights are a good thing
>All races are inherently equal
Already been debunked by multiple scientific studies.

>> No.16594745

1984 is too, and it's actually horrifying.

>> No.16594787

can some1 tell me who tf those guys are in the pic

>> No.16594795

>Brought to you by the great minds of lit

>> No.16594797

Chopenhauer, Mark, Kant, Hegel, Neeche,

>> No.16594809

the german greats

>> No.16594810

cause it´s wrong

>> No.16594811

Do you read him in translation? If so is it worth it?

>> No.16594814

victorian era pseudoscience about "muh skulls, muh mongoloids and negroids" don't count

>> No.16594842

What's wrong with advocating for poetry, living, and loving? Most people in the world have little to no capacity for any of those things, with disastrous consequences.

>> No.16594843

it was alright the ending kinda felt rushed tho

>> No.16594847

Western whites are spiritual niggers

>> No.16594854

>victorian era pseudoscience
As if. Just because you're ignorant of contemporary science doesn't mean it doesnt exist.

>> No.16594862

How was the agricultural revolution a disaster for the human race? Without it, our population wouldn't even be 1 million, and we'd still be living in teepees. Sure, a lot of suffering would have been prevented if we never developed cities and such. But by that logic you could just as well say the big bang has been a disaster for the human race, which is nonsense.

>> No.16594886

The was a more recent study that found positive correlation between brain volume and intelligence.

There was also a study involving children adopted by white middle class American parents that found White and Asian children had significantly higher average IQ than black children.

There was also the mirror test experiment which found black children were not self aware at a much later age than Whites or Asians.

There was also an experiment testing empathetic response in babies that found Asian babies had a lower level of sympathy for perceived suffering in others.

>> No.16594903

>found positive correlation between brain volume and intelligence.
who could ever have predicted this

>> No.16594908
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Unpopular opinion: Most philosophy is wrong, or indistinguishable for being wrong, and completely pointless to read.

>> No.16594913

>wrong being possible
dont think so buddy.

>> No.16594915

hitchikers guide to the galaxy is genius and well composed on every level.

>> No.16594921

Not wrong.

>> No.16594926

You forgot the questionably sourced IQ map, ms paint infographic about Black crime rates, grossly misinterpreted cited scientific study, even more uncited "scientific studies" conveniently supporting already circular arguments. It's all so tiresome.

>> No.16594935
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>> No.16594944

Are you saying.... I'm wrong?

>who could have predicted this?
Not these guys, apparently >>16594814>>16594926

>> No.16594959

...according to your philosophy.

>> No.16594962

There are no books that men will never understand.

>> No.16594986

Here's a hot take
>Big Brother is an allegory for the Abrahamic God.

>> No.16595016

>Gravity's Rainbow is so fucking overrated.

>> No.16595035

>I read the catcher in the rye

He rapes his sister, Phoebe.

>> No.16595038

Here are three common arguments:
>Hunter-gatherers were healthier than their agricultural descendants, as evidenced by malnutrition and a decrease in height. Only recently have we returned to pre-agricultural heights
>Grain storage lead to wealth disparity, large scale war, etc.
>Humans psychologically are better adapted for tribal living

>> No.16595050
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"Nobody is wrong. Reality doesn't exist. There is a link between race and penis length but not race and intelligence. Nothing can be proven because nothing is real."

>> No.16595086
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>> No.16595104
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"Here is irrefutable proof based on empirical evidence that supports my claim."

>> No.16595113

If 49 people coincidentally hallucinate an apple which looks the same and only one person sees that it is in fact a banana, and yet they go about proving that it is an apple, is it in fact not a banana?

>> No.16595127
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"Laughable. It's all so tiresome. Read Stirner. Read Hegel."

>> No.16595132

nice strawman. Yes, Marx didn't believe in reality. /s. When will you fucking losers stop using the "nordic chad" to stand in for yourselves? We are all positive thats what you look like in real life lmao

>> No.16595139

whales are the smartest creatures on earth, their brains are fucking huge

>> No.16595147

'goes straight to racial penis length' yep I think you fags are compensating for something, too much bbc cuck porn has rotted your minds.

>> No.16595152
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>If 49 people coincidentally hallucinate an apple which looks the same and only one person sees that it is in fact a banana, and yet they go about proving that it is an apple, is it in fact not a banana?

>> No.16595159

Steinbeck is the best pure naturalist of the 20th century. hemingway is fucking horrendous though, is only remembered because of his self-aggrandizement and easy to imitate prose.

>> No.16595169

'The Trial' sucks balls.

>> No.16595174


>> No.16595178

this kierkegaaard is overrated

>> No.16595182

because it's kind of low brow
well written and enjoyable to read though

>> No.16595186
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"Demonstrating my logical inconsistency proves only that you are a cuck. Proof is arbitrary. Logic is a spook. Penises are a social construct."

>> No.16595194

No but I mean really, what differentiates us from our ape friends, what was THE evolutionary trend of the past few million years with us? It was our brains getting bigger.

I'm sure there's more to it than just brain size=smarter, depends which areas, and also things like number of neuronal connections that aren't related to size. But to assume there would be no link at at all is just patently retarded.

>> No.16595212

You're right. To be specific, it's brain mass/body mass ratio that's correlated to intelligence. Many people try to find reasons to deny this because they don't like the implications.

>> No.16595383

Patriotism is underrated as fuck and Temple of the Golden Pavillion is a bit shit compared to Mishima's other work

>> No.16595418

>supports a slave morality yet has the audacity to call others basedboys

>> No.16595908

Marx was right

>> No.16595927

Jane Austen is good

>> No.16595929
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The Death of the Author is absolutely worthless and cancerous form of literary criticism.

>> No.16595952

Death of the author isn't bad as long as you have evidence for your claims. Every single college student who complains about interpreting literature does not understand the value of making sound arguments in order to support a particular interpretation of a literary work.

>> No.16595961

I don't think many people on here that have actually read Austen would disagree with that

>> No.16595984

Translation is an art in itself and reading in translation, even if the translation is generally poor, is always acceptable.

>> No.16596000

Denying oneself and others paths of development that are proven fruitful is pessimism bordering on the pathological, not the absence of optimism--which is unrealistic expectations that usually deny something else, the value of memory and experience. That's more in the line of the devilishly tricky Leibniz, the inspiration for Voltaire's Dr. Pangloss, which is not at all like Goethe. In this regard, your opinion will always be highly popular, but only among men born with less than usual vitality.

>> No.16596001

I'd say they're neck and neck but I personally prefer Spanish lit.

>> No.16596105

>Death of the author isn't bad as long as you have evidence for your claims.
Isn't Death of the Author about ignoring the background of the author? I'm not denying that the author could lie, forget about things, or change his mind but the author's intent matters more than any bullshit analysis of the story. This also opens up the story to a bullshit prescriptive literary analysis when a perfectly reasonable out of universe explanation would suffice.

>> No.16596123

Shes obviously good I just think her characters lives are boring af.

>> No.16596236

I swear to god, so much of philosophy is people who think they are not philosophers cuz they hate philosophy then trying to prove philosophy is bad through philosophy.
Here are my unpopular (philosophical) opinions:
> the forms are real but they are Falsities that delimit what Truth is (Appearances).
>Most people are smart.
>Fiction is an emotional exercise and most of lit would be better off reading more YA to spurn their deep ressentiment and allow themselves to enjoy "stupid" "normie" feelings.

>> No.16597030

Wittgenstein is nothing compared to Weininger.

>> No.16597039

hating goethe is some 10iq shit
t. germong

>> No.16597057

>paths of development that are proven fruitful is pessimism
alright so that mindset is only for development.
Then stop pretending it is more than that.
Not saying you should drop all poetry at some point but all (most) of the philosophers mentioned will want to perpetually be in the "development" phase.
Du hast mich missverstanden, vollidiot.

>> No.16597062

I think its ok to argue outside of the authors intended perspective as long as you clearly state that its your experience when reading the work and dont make it out to be some universal truth

>> No.16597072

was lässt dich vermuten dass ich dachte du würdest wirklich goethes werk als ganzes hassen und nicht nur seine philosophischen tendenzen, ich wollte nur etwas sticheln und sehen ob du ein leicht zu reizender idiot bisst oder was man so als billige unterhaltung herauskriegt, ja seine theorien außerhalb der literatur sind nicht ernst zu nehmen da stimme ich zu

schönes wochenende noch, anon

>> No.16597077

How the fuck is Heine, the guy cynically making fun of every part of contemporary german life, an optimist? Did we read the same Heine?

>> No.16597093

>ich wollte nur etwas sticheln und sehen ob
"i was merely pretending to be a retard"
>ja seine theorien außerhalb der literatur sind nicht ernst zu nehmen da stimme ich zu
>schönes wochenende noch
dir auch <3

>> No.16597129

You're pretty retarded except for the point on feminism

>> No.16597165

>I was merely pretending to be retarded
well, yes

>> No.16597182

This is a popular opinion

>> No.16597221

I'm going to be blunt. The Death of Author reads like Marxist garbage and says the stories shouldn't be under the control of the tyranny of its author. This gayshit is how we got GameTheorists.

>> No.16597307

havent read the book because I dont really give a shit so I was talking about my perception of the general idea, of course the author should be the highest instance when it comes to the meaning of the content of his work but I still think honestly talking about what you felt or thought when reading it is fine as long as you recognise it as merely your experience

>> No.16597318
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Nietzsche ripped off Mänlander, who was more insightful

>> No.16597340

>Hunter-gatherers were healthier than their agricultural descendants, as evidenced by malnutrition and a decrease in height. Only recently have we returned to pre-agricultural heights
And they still got raped, killed or enslaved. So much for a health diet.
>Grain storage lead to wealth disparity, large scale war, etc.
And what about it faggot?
>Humans psychologically are better adapted for tribal living
Doesn't matter.

>> No.16597387

its mainländer, a self imposed name to show affection towatds his home land around the main river, and nietzsche didnt even engage with his ideas apart from calling him weak and had completely opposite stances towards life

>> No.16597410

Post WW2 this is indisputably true.

>> No.16597418

Both Hemingway and Steinbeck are great.Hemingway actually requires some reading skill to “get” which a lot of anons miss; he isn’t as simple as he appears.Generally on lit, anons like long, difficult or obscure texts to flex their muscles

>> No.16597435

Hemingway is in his element when he is writing about sports like hunting or bull fighting.

>> No.16598557

Fascist philosophy holds no water.

>> No.16599703
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>> No.16599726

did I miss something? is this a meme? I only remember him getting molested by the teacher

>> No.16599906

The answer to 90% of "plotholes" is that fiction is about drama, theme, and emotion, not about watching a perfectly logical character do the most optimal thing in any given situation, or whether or not the made up lore is 100% consistent and scientifically accurate.

>> No.16599953

Art died in 1900
Socialism died in 1945

>> No.16600204

I disagree. For me, drama comes from "what would I do in that situation, how would I feel?" If logic gets violated too many times, I can no longer relate the story to real life and I throw the book away. If there's magic involved, it should follow its own rules.

Lord of the Rings is perfect because it's consistent. Magic exists, but it follows its own logic. Fantasy races exist, but are consistent with their own quirks and cultures; Tolkein even invented living languages that changed with each era, like language does in real life. The rest of the world works normally, gravity and water and everything is like earth. LOTR is a perfect example of fantasy that's logically consistent.

>> No.16600232 [DELETED] 

>Art died
Only in the mainstream. There are still great artists, but they don't get the spotlight in our diseased mainstream culture. If you like art, you should try to find good artists and support them.

>> No.16600248
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>Art died
Only in the mainstream. There are still great artists. They don't get the spotlight in our diseased mainstream culture, but they're out there.

If you like art, you should try to find good artists and support them.

>> No.16600306

He said unpopular opinions

>> No.16601475

19th century French lit > 19th century Russian lit.
Musil, Broch, Kafka, Gombrowicz and Hasek are the five greats of the 20th century.

>> No.16601486

Id rather have sex and complain that art has died to art hoes for the social credit.

>> No.16601515
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>> No.16602402

That’s a bad painting anon so I don’t trust your claim

>> No.16602422

>Sherlock Holmes is boring
My comrade

>> No.16602447

go back.

>> No.16602506

Threatening to commit violence against people you disagree with is fine, they should know how foolish they were.

>> No.16602507

>Sherlock Holmes is boring (or maybe it's just not my cup of tea)
You're on /lit/, no one here gives a fuck about Sherlock Holmes. Every knows it's genre fiction schlock.

>> No.16602510
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>> No.16602535

Umberto Eco gave a shit about Holmes in his critique of metaphysics and Italian Marxism

>> No.16602576

>it's bad because I say it's bad

>> No.16602577

What do you mean? That's the best song on the whole album!

>> No.16602581

Wow so edgy

>> No.16602590

i'm russian and i'm not that fond of Dosto.

>> No.16602593

If you're American this statement holds water.

>> No.16602992

Eh I don’t agree but I do agree?

There are sections which are extremely bland (eg most of the scenes in the psychiatric hospital) but then there are also sections which are amazing (everything on Pontius Pilate).

Try ‘Heart of a Dog’. Much shorter and lighthearted with a nice theme/meaning. Pretty comfy imo.

>> No.16604348


>> No.16605636

Pleb filtered.

>> No.16605646

Holden didn't do anything naughty to Phoebe.

>> No.16605668

How do you deal with Heidegger, and Holderlin's philosophic works?

>> No.16605696

What's with the forced meme?

>> No.16605868

Keep /pol/ on /pol/

>> No.16606500

Poetry > Rest

>> No.16606553

I’ve read P/P, P, and S/S, and felt myself getting dumber by association every time

Austen’s prose is ugly and her characters are annoying. Personally, I gained nothing but a headache from her work.

>> No.16606575

She’s not obviously good. She’s obviously overhyped. She fits perfectly next to Nora Roberts and Danielle Steel on the Walmart discount shelf.

>> No.16606607

They make you read Ayn Rand in burgerland

>> No.16606656

Reading all of Plato is a waste of time, only Republic, 5 Dialogues, Symposium, and Gorgias are needed.
Not unpopular, but it is true
I'm inclined to agree, translating and making good English verse from Greek is difficult. The Agricultural Revolution is why we have Homer and the other books you enjoy.

>> No.16606667

Very true, 1984 describes a cult/religion as much as it does a government.

>> No.16607480

Shakespeare’s best work was his Will

>> No.16607534

goldstein's book is one of the most interesting parts of 1984

>> No.16607609

Not an opinion but
>most books I have read have been left leaning propaganda books and have soured by taste for books as a whole along
that and forced annotation which always makes kids overannotates valueless junk instead of getting into their shitty books the teacher gives them

>> No.16607629

Nietzsche's work is worth very little and the gang who always rushes to his defense online has never read or comprehended him.

>> No.16607668

This but the opposite.

>> No.16607676
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>> No.16607685

Shut up you cringecases.

>> No.16607692

I am gonna say it. If you aren't reading simply for the fun of it, then your are a pseud or a brainlet.

>> No.16607700
File: 26 KB, 524x400, nietzschesgotagun.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.16607705

Have sex

>> No.16607722

Is that an offer?

>> No.16607736

All of the secondary literature on the Greek epics that /lit/ has recommended to me was written by communist jews. Simone Weils was connected to many communist groups while M.I. Finley (born Moses Finkelstein) fled the US because the authorities learned of his direct engagement with underground communist movements.
Really goes to show the kind of people who browse this website, people who only read red shit.

>> No.16607745

Yeah, it is. Man enough to take it up?

>> No.16607748

Get ready for the pounding of your life, butt-boy. The two inch menace is cocked and ready, baby.

>> No.16607759

No, no, no. I am daddy, you are kitten. You WILL present your anus for inspection and you WILL be ready to receive the entirety of my 11 inch anaconda. DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR?

>> No.16607775
File: 468 KB, 1600x899, angler.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Ah, 'twas a ruse, my dear! The trap is set, the trap is sprung. The butt-boy love, we'll be as one. Together we pound, you cry out with joy! Your anus leaks, my new favorite toy.

>> No.16607796

Based! How can 11 inch flacid cucumbers ever compete with the turgid magisty of the noble 2 incher?

>> No.16607805

Your poem sucks and, in case you haven't noticed, my entire arm all the way up to my shoulder is already in your ass.

>> No.16607815

it was more white guilt type shit than communism is the answer type stuff

>> No.16607820

The ole reverse reach-around fisting special. A personal favorite of mine when I'm doing my business.

>> No.16607825

have to disagree; personally, I've gained nothing but pleasure and satisfaction from your mom's work

>> No.16607835

patently false. show me a syllabus or stfu

>> No.16607838

Finley attacks hierarchy, Weil attacks whiteness and masculinity.

>> No.16607893

Surrealism is boring.

>> No.16607897

Sufferings of young Werther was the most pathetic book about simpery I've read.

>> No.16608001

Literature can be entertaining

>> No.16609164

My only unpopular opinion is that I should be a well known, published, well-paid author. I suppose this isn't being exactly fair to myself because many times where my writing is presented, is is approved, and I used to win awards as a kid for my writing.
It's only because both of my parents are only highschool educated that I am cast out from the literary community, which suffers all the more for it.

>> No.16609176

Minority authors aren’t well-known except for some, because most of the time they are crying about fake narrative like racism and white people.
Men know how to write female characters and if you think otherwise you are a redditor.

>> No.16609798

The Greeks are all-in-all a snoozefest. The Iliad, Odyssey, Oresteia, Works and Days, and a few other poems are fantastic but most other works are just boring and the secondary literature surrounding the Greeks is terrible.

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