Racial Realism

[Anonymous No.16480010]

It's been brought to my attention that apparently a lot of science and theory was behind the racial politics of the Nazi Germany. An example of this is Count de Gobineau's essay on the Inequality of the Human Races, which seems to have had great influence in particular on Richard Wagner (Cosima wrote to Gobineau that "My husband is quite at your service, always reading The Races when he is not at work with the staging.")

Has anyone read de Gobineau or other similar authors? Political inclinations aside, is there any merit to their arguments?

[Anonymous No.16480035]

Nazis didn’t believe in race realism in the American sense. For example they thought white Eastern Europeans and Baltic people were inferior, whereas the American race realist groups them all as “white”

[Anonymous No.16480038]

>>16480010
You sound like a complete wanker, assuming that you're not suffering from erectile dysfunction of course.

Have you read anything?

[Anonymous No.16480051]

>>16480010

[Anonymous No.16480069]

>>16480010
Most racial theory by the Nazis was the idea of making the German race stronger the Nazis wanted all nations to apply this idea the Nazis main racial hatred was against racemixing since they believed it produced no good results
>source:brazil

[Anonymous No.16480081]

>>16480035
The American race realists have more nuanced views than that. I don't mean neonazis, who are delusional, but the guys who research IQ and other behavioral traits. It's true that people like Rushton made very broad categories like 'white', 'east asian', 'black' because he wanted to note what he saw as very general trends, but there has been plenty of more specific research since then.

The actual original Nazis were quite deluded about the reality of the Aryan(Indo-European) stock and its presence in Slavs vs Germanics, they pretty much just made shit up, and it was obviously motivated by a desire to conquer those countries to expand the German empire.

[Anonymous No.16480113]

>>16480038
>You sound like a complete wanker, assuming that you're not suffering from erectile dysfunction of course.

[Anonymous No.16480200]

>>16480035
Americans being simplistic and uncouth as always
>>16480069
>>16480081
There is this meme that all racism is always just "prejudice". I wonder if the arguments in those books actually hold up.

[Anonymous No.16480257]

>>16480035
Nazis never thought of eastern europeans as subhuman. The only subhumans in their eyes were bolsheviks, Hitler even reffered to russians as a great people in Mein Kampf and he obviously had respect for Stalin.

[Anonymous No.16480285]

>>16480257
>Far from being anti-Slavic, the reader will see that the SS Head Office publication portrayed Russians as victims of Communism—and then specifically blamed Jews as being behind Communism, and, ideologically speaking, inheritors of a far older, far eastern attack on Europe which had started with Genghis Khan and the Mongols.

>Nowhere in the SS book are the Slavic people denigrated, and in fact many of the traditional Slavic nations are mentioned in text and photograph as being part of the greater European family. European nations specifically mentioned in this book include Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia, Croatia, Greece, Bulgaria, Hungary, and Romania.

>The suffering of ordinary Russian people under the Soviet system forms a large focus in this work, and at all times great sympathy is evoked for these victims of Communism: men, women and children alike. Special mention is made of their awful living conditions, inflicted by the Soviet economic collectivization system, and always condemned only as the result of Communism.

>In addition, the economics, social structure, art, and even freedom of religion under the Soviet state is dramatically and graphically compared with Germany—and elsewhere in Europe.

>Finally, after reviewing numerous Soviet atrocities and Communist secret police torture chambers discovered during the German advance into the Baltic states and the Ukraine, this SS book ends with a dramatic series of photographs showing the murderous intentions of the Soviet state—and a warning that if the European people did not unite and together fight off the attack by the “Jewish-led Underman,” then Europe itself would be destroyed.

[Anonymous No.16480298]

>>16480257
>implying Hitler wasn't some midwit speed addicted one balled vegetarian who tried to nonce on his neice and as it turns out was also a pussy who an heroed
Beware of false prophets, anon.

[Anonymous No.16480339]

>>16480298
His "neice" wasn't related him and she was practically an adult.
I can't find any report from his physician that says he had one testicle, and while the Nazis did use meth Hitler was not one of them.
There is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian.

Even still, I don't believe anything I read about Hitler whether it is positive or negative. He is one of the most lied about people who have lived and truth cannot be found in history.

[Anonymous No.16480540]

>>16480339
>truth cannot be found in history
go be a postmodernist else afore I get out my big stick

[Anonymous No.16481604]

>>16480038
>Have you read anything?
Yes, I have. Why do you ask?

[Anonymous No.16481622]

[Anonymous No.16481650]

>>16481622
good god he completely wrecks him in a handful of pages

[Anonymous No.16481676]

>>16480113

[Anonymous No.16481686]

>>16481676
Why did he do it

[Anonymous No.16481701]

>>16481686
Black on black crime.

[Anonymous No.16481719]

>>16481701
Why is this worse than seeing a guy get shot

[Anonymous No.16481725]

>>16481701
dios mio...

[Anonymous No.16481727]

>>16481719
Just black culture. They lack sympathy.

[Anonymous No.16481734]

>>16481727
Empathy too.

[Anonymous No.16481735]

>>16480035
Funnily enough the Nazi's accepted people with a quarter nonwhite genetics, where as modern American race realists are into the 1 drop rule as if some 25% Asian guy is a huge threat to white society

[Anonymous No.16481755]

>>16481701
*Black-on-black*
fixed it.

[Anonymous No.16481762]

>>16480010
The problem with racial realism is that it's impossible to tell apart the strictly contextual advantage of said racists versus their totally chance and lucky standpoint. Nobody thinks of the Mongols as a racially superior master race, even though every single nation they invaded and every nation behind them lived in total fear of them. The success of Europe in conquering of the world has nothing to do with their genetic species subcategory and everything to do with their geopolitical positioning and other unaccountable accidents of fate. China at several points could have colonized the New World, they choose not too because of arbitary cultural reasons. The Chinese imperial lineage was just as prestigious if not more lasting than the Roman; which all fascist movements derive their claim to fame from/. It just so happened their ruler at that point in time decided that North America should not be explored. China would have gotten to North America before the Vikings if it were not for the narrow short sightedness of its rulers and political instability within his court. You can look this up.
It has nothing to do with race Race is a cope and I'm sorry you are so stupid that you think otherwise, read a book.

[Anonymous No.16481773]

Full disclosure I'm a bit drunk so if my posts don't male full sense that's why.

[Anonymous No.16481787]

>>16481762
>>16481773
I guess so...

[Anonymous No.16481806]

>>16481676
>>16481701
>>16481727
>>16481734
>>16481755
>>16481787
This would be based if niggers only did them to their own kind. They should stay in their African shitholes.

[Anonymous No.16481818]

>>16481806
I agree.

[Anonymous No.16481822]

>>16481762
Mongols are in fact very high IQ though. IQ is just not the only thing that matters clearly, there are other genetically determined personality traits of interest. Then there are random cultural fluctuations like you say, but you're discounting the genes entirely, and there is no reason to do that.

[Anonymous No.16481866]

>>16480285
That was a push by Goebbels I believe. Hitler was anti slav and lebensraum promoted getting rid of slavs while goebbels said he wanted to turn them into natsocs, primarily for the war effort.
This being said, that there's an interpretation difference, would leave it open to that

>>16480010
No, Deutschphysik failed to beat einstein's "Jewish physics".
Firstly science is meant to be, by definition, universally applicable. This would contradict any particular solutions especially ones based on race.
This opens, though, different abilities to a physics structure. Einstein's relied on calculus I believe and Deutschphysik on Geometry, if I'm remembering correctly, so the structures to their theories are different. This sets up an order of precedence of structures, or a hierarchy if you will in which structures are measured by their universality of application.
So any racial facts take a particular structure in their application. Considering the universe existed prior to race, and that it extends past race, a racial science can only be as wide, or applicable, as a race.
This inability to compare models of science, in this case physics, would have facts of the most fundamental order in race science being very derivative of a science that has a structure that is more universal.
So a fact isn't equal to other facts. Let me do an example:
In iq research, it states a range, taking numbers as an axiom, certainly undefined. So for example it says an order of difference is 15. These orders, because numbers are taken as axioms, among other things, would equate 15 as a more fundamental difference to say 1. Now applicably, the difference between 15 in most iq structures is large, but in terms of a more universal structure, say the universe, it's extraordinarily small.
This also takes a certain definition of intelligence as an axiom, which has been shown to be in the best of situations correlative. Correlation is very democratic, or poll-like, which is odd for a nazi to accept, if nazism is a complete metaphysics.

[Anonymous No.16481873]

>>16481806
all these webms remind me of rap music vids

[Anonymous No.16481893]

>>16481762
>arbitrary cultural reasons
Culture proceeds from biology. Read some scientific papers.

[Anonymous No.16481895]

>>16481822
I'm not him but I would forward his proposal in that it doesn't include, as of now, a quantification of ability to grow, or a Forrest Gump variable. It's not even really based on science much like psychology mostly isn't but for different reasons: Psychology uses reported symptoms, similarly poll-like, compared to neuroscience which tries to use something materially measurable. Obviously psychoanalysis tries to refer to universals.
How IQ could use universal structures with material ones remains to be seen.

[Anonymous No.16481905]

>>16481893
read >>16481866

[Anonymous No.16481915]

>>16481822
It's more than likely a mixture of both.

Honestly though, there is only one race that has failed in every situation it has found itself in...

[Anonymous No.16481916]

>>16481762
Notwithstanding that you seem attacking a strawman instead of the arguments presented in OP's essay, you also seem to think of the only possible criteria to distinguish different races to be solely power and conquest, but then what about culture? Culture cannot be attributed to geographical advantage, and as far as I'm aware, pre world war europe prided itself purely on the account of its sophisticated culture (in relation to its neighbors) and so did the Greeks and the Romans. If this criteria is to be accepted, then it makes sense that nobody considers Mongols as racially superior, since they are culturally bankrupt. As far as the Chinese are concerned, Nazis considered them "Aryans of the east" and therefore a league of their own. The irony of this post is that you tell others to read a book but you are uninformed yourself, though to be fair you did mention you are drunk.

[Anonymous No.16481922]

>>16481915
Yeah that's the issue with using race as a universal variable. It's not a universally applicable group, like say, math is.

[Anonymous No.16481923]

>>16481895
It's a very imprecise science but it gives you the ability to make broad predictions fairly accurately so I think it qualifies as science.

[Anonymous No.16481927]

>>16481893
>Culture proceeds from biology
Wrong, only someone historically and culturally illiterate would believe in such a retarded statement.

[Anonymous No.16481928]

>>16481916
read >>16481922

[Anonymous No.16481935]

Why is that a lot of modern Westerners can't shut the fuck up about political affiliation? Do you really think your voices, as peasants or underclass, will make a difference? I don't like the presence of blacks as much as others, but my mental strategy involves trying to not stick out because aiming for large-scale change will most likely put me on a hit list or involve sacrificing a few good people. Everyone acts like they're willing to sacrifice anything for their political ideology, but that seems kind of pathetic to me. Hell, I have even more respect to the religious fanatics than political ideologues.
The polarization of Westerners is annoying, and to be honest, I feel it is just as burdensome as unruly refugees. What created these problems in the first place, and what can the average man do about it? Why fret on it if you're most likely going to wind up getting involved in morally ambivalent situations like sacrificing a few good men to achieve your prosperity?

[Anonymous No.16481936]

>>16481905
That rambling, tangential paragraph isn't relevant. Culture is biologically driven.

[Anonymous No.16481940]

>>16481866
>Einstein's relied on calculus I believe and Deutschphysik on Geometry, if I'm remembering correctly, so the structures to their theories are different
I can understand why their propositions would be different, but if correct on both sides, wouldn't they necessarily converge at some point?

[Anonymous No.16481958]

>>16481936
And what's biological driven is in flux because of experience-dependent neuroplasticity. It's why people of the same race can have ideological disagreement or even kill one another. People aren't borgs.

[Anonymous No.16481961]

>>16481936
It's biologically informed. Not "driven". Materialism is for degenerates, anon.

[Anonymous No.16481963]

>>16481936
It's useless information. If culture only took race as a variable then there would be no development in culture, for example materially, like the internet.

>>16481940
At some point definitely. They're definitely both true but the applicability in universals is the difference. Basic arithmetic isn't as universal as calculus for instance.

[Anonymous No.16481966]

>>16481958
Race borgs lol, earth is a square

[Anonymous No.16481967]

>>16481958
>People aren't borgs.

[Anonymous No.16481974]

>>16480010
hello goyim, I have researched this matter.
>is there any merit to their arguments?
yes, genetic studies have backed up nearly all Nazi racism. they were slightly wrong about Aryan origins (they confused Aryan origins with Nordic-Aryan origins). Another mistake they made was conflating the Aryan Linguistic tree with the Aryan genetic tree.
Overall, they did a fantastic job for their time.

[Anonymous No.16481979]

>>16481963
Race is important, but it's debatable how much causal power it has by itself.

[Anonymous No.16481987]

>>16481923
In literal terms, that it uses the scientific method, sure, but people call it soft science for a reason and the reason is it's not as universally applicable outside cultural axioms vs material axioms like neuroscience vs universal axioms like math.

[Anonymous No.16481988]

>>16481866
So basically one exceptional jew who grew up in German culture managed to propose a better theory so therefore all races are equal? What sort of reasoning is this

[Anonymous No.16481989]

>>16481979
Race is everything

[Anonymous No.16481994]

>>16481927
It's true, and only someone scientifically illiterate would claim otherwise.

>>16481935
I find this kind of fatalistic individualism pathetic, personally. Normal, but pathetic.

[Anonymous No.16481995]

>>16481979
I only think taking it as an axiom can lead to issues such as Deutschphysik where you end up chasing specters through bad structure or metaphysics.

[Anonymous No.16482000]

[Anonymous No.16482007]

>>16481988
No that's not at all what I'm saying. I refuse to refer to a race as causal so why would I an individual. It could've been a German which was branded "Jewish science" (which he was apt to do, see impressionism, iq).

[Anonymous No.16482009]

>>16481989
No, it's not, you brainlet subhuman. How do you explain stuff like the Toolbox killers? How do you explain stuff like brutal European wars? How do you explain stuff like Europeans having different visions, temperaments, and ideologies from one another?
The reality is the brain is everything, and the brain itself is immensely plastic (i.e., experience-dependent plasticity). However, genetics do play a role in increasing intensity and duration of plasticity of the brain, but we are still learning on the nuances of that.
If you take a saint and fuck up his brain in a certain way, you can make him a psychopath.

[Anonymous No.16482020]

>>16482000
gottem

[Anonymous No.16482022]

>>16481994
There was no advocacy of individualism in that post, you dumb cunt. You spend years babbling about politics, yet you still cannot interpret a basic paragraph or two.

[Anonymous No.16482025]

>>16481987
Yes and I don't think people should obsess over it too much, but to entirely ignore the results, which are really quite consistent, strikes me as motivated by something other than a desire for rigor.

[Anonymous No.16482031]

>>16482009
>the brain is everything
spoken like a true pseud

the body is everything

[Anonymous No.16482030]

ITT:

[Anonymous No.16482032]

>>16482009
>If you take a saint and fuck up his brain in a certain way, you can make him a psychopath

[Anonymous No.16482033]

>>16481676
niggas die errday b

[Anonymous No.16482037]

>>16481989
It's a fad for midwit pseudo-intellectuals. You have no identity, a boring life, no religion, the autistic fixation on race as some salvific ideological awakening is cringe and you will without a doubt look back on this phase with regret

[Anonymous No.16482038]

>>16481893
Its both, dont be retarded.

[Anonymous No.16482040]

>>16482025
Would you spend time trying to square quantum mechanics using solely basic arithmetic? It's just not informative. For instance we could develop a better iq that can be a better ladder for everyone (to become a Forrest Gump of our abilities as an idea).

[Anonymous No.16482042]

>>16481958
We're talking averages here. Averages are what shape all of this and are what we should be planning around. Even exceptions like geniuses arise within averaged paradigms (there aren't many black geniuses). The neuroplasticity you speak of likewise occurs within such a context (there are more and less likely responses/restructurings depending upon the person's genes).

[Anonymous No.16482044]

>>16482031
The body is just a mental representation in the brain.

[Anonymous No.16482046]

>>16482031
Only if that body is without organs. Otherwise, you just have the sum of automatic processes

[Anonymous No.16482048]

>>16482037
the doctrine of blood is far superior than anything you could ever imagine

[Anonymous No.16482054]

>>16482040
It is informative though, it parsimoniously explains a good deal of group outcome disparity within and between populations. I'm not sure I understand what you mean about a 'ladder' or Forest Gump.

[Anonymous No.16482055]

>>16482048
I bet you have strained relations with your family members

[Anonymous No.16482061]

>>16482048
It's uninspired and lame, even hardcore commies have a more colorful worldview. Racialism as some all encompassing end appeals to the lowest common denominator of boring faggots

[Anonymous No.16482064]

>>16482055
no, it's quite good actually, thanks for asking.

[Anonymous No.16482066]

>>16482042
Lynn/Vanhanen and Reich's "improved" stats of national averages are trash though because they rely on GDP estimates, pooling old preexisting studies without attention to their rigorousness (e.g., many have sample bias or done in poor rural areas), and etc.
If you want to give honest averages, go to urban areas of certain countries and get the IQ of the people randomly there. You have to do it in the present though. I don't care about GDP estimates or old studies done in rural areas.
Also, basing one's identity on the average potential of one's group is retarded.

[Anonymous No.16482073]

>>16482061
I would embrace hardcore communism too if I were a disgusting mongrel

[Anonymous No.16482075]

>>16482061
I understand very fine-grained racialism, which is really just a sense of clannishness. I don't understand people who identify with like 'the white race'. I can barely even identify with French people.

[Anonymous No.16482084]

>>16482073
I never said I was a communist retard, that vitriol and hatred is going to look really ugly as you get older fren

[Anonymous No.16482085]

>>16482030

[Anonymous No.16482087]

>>16482061
>Materialism as some all encompassing end appeals to the lowest common denominator of boring faggots
ftfy

[Anonymous No.16482088]

>>16482042
>>16482054
By ladder I mean that iq is just based on correlative averages, for now it's not based on a grouping of genes, but that doesn't account for learning. Clearly people learn a new field and make more money, therefore decrease crime. If one of your axioms of race superiority is that then you want a more rigorous or universal system.

[Anonymous No.16482094]

>>16482087
It would appeal to midwits. Sociological denominations would appeal to the lowest.

[Anonymous No.16482095]

>>16481961
>Materialism is for degenerates, anon.
It's also for realists. I might agree that the average person is better off believing in souls and free will, but I still think it's a good idea to have a reserve of intellectuals who can parse what's actually going on (such as the crucial importance of genetic predisposition).

[Anonymous No.16482099]

>>16482084
nobody here is hating except you (about yourself)

[Anonymous No.16482100]

>>16482095
they're not separate anon

[Anonymous No.16482102]

>>16482088
>Clearly people learn a new field and make more money, therefore decrease crime.
yeah but the effect is not that large. It's well known that poverty doesn't correlate with crime as well as race does in the US.

[Anonymous No.16482105]

>>16481866
You are raising the scientific standards in order to disqualify certain disciplines. You are basically arguing against all social sciences then. But that a science like anthropology (in this case, racial anthropology) cannot be as rigorous as another science doesn't mean it has no value. Physics itself, Deutsch, Jewish or otherwise, is not as rigorous as mathematics owning to the problem of induction. If we take the logical structure of the world as the first order, then physics would be a "derivative" (in the sense you referred to) of mathematics, and biology as a "second derivative" of mathematics. Does this mean these disciplines don't serve their purpose? Evidently not. This was certainly a weird argument though.

[Anonymous No.16482108]

>>16482085
kek

[Anonymous No.16482109]

>>16482087
How is racialism not materialism? I understand there's a lot of weird mysticism that racists believe in, but it's still a very materialistic ideology. Race isn't a replacement for personality, or an actual identity. You could sit in a room for your entire life and never develop as a person who interacts with the world, but be white and consider yourself white as if that means something

[Anonymous No.16482116]

>>16481963
It's not useless; it helps us understand the incipience, the development and the preservation of cultural trends. We might be more sensitive — for example — to the sutlifying influence of black popular culture.

[Anonymous No.16482118]

>>16482102
It does affect it and racial axioms aren't defined well either, plus from a purely biological standpoint, as population increases, the number of intelligent people do in a group. As population decreases, the amount of unintelligent people decrease due to competition, on average. So even following your structure, we see an issue with codifying iq right now as an incorrigible variable.

[Anonymous No.16482119]

>>16482094
Sociological denominations appeal both to nowits and highwits

[Anonymous No.16482120]

>>16482095
Genetic predisposition doesn't negate things like free will though? No one (of any importance) disagrees that the physicality of existence mediates things like free will. I think your premise should actually be reversed. The common man benefits from a fatalistic "every man in his place and a place for every man" while it is the wisest who are meant to contend with the nature of an indeterminate existence (and therefore future).