/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16402236]

Who are some Greek writers that you like that don't get mentioned anywhere near enough as they should, and have had an influence. Like Pyrrho or Theocritus. But it can be a modern or ancient Greek.

Also
>tfw you will never lay eyes on the statue of Zeus at Olympia

>According to the Roman historian Livy, the Roman general Aemilius Paulus (the victor over Macedon) saw the statue and "was moved to his soul, as if he had seen the god in person,"[9] while the 1st-century AD Greek orator Dio Chrysostom declared that a single glimpse of the statue would make a man forget all his earthly troubles.

[Anonymous No.16402246]

Based Antilochos

[Anonymous No.16402266]

I wonder how different Europe would be if Rome didn't convert to some foreign Jewish cult

[Anonymous No.16402307]

>>16402266
By the time they did that, Rome was basically over, so it was either that or germanics but they were actual barbarians with no culture. Be thankful Christianity kept Europe together against Islam and Ottoman invasions

[Anonymous No.16402312]

>>16402266
And peaked Europe you mean?

[Anonymous No.16402317]

>>16402307
Most medieval institutions were the result of the syncretism between Roman and Germanic practices though.

[Anonymous No.16402319]

>>16402307
>be thankful we were conquered by this jew religion and not that one

I mean it is literally being conquered by Islam right now so not a huge accomplishment there.

[Anonymous No.16402323]

>>16402319
>nearly two thousand years of prosperity allowing Europe to reach its highest point but civilisation starts to collapse so its Christianity's fault
By the same token, as great as Roman paganism was, you would have to admit that it allowed the downfall of Rome also.

[Anonymous No.16402325]

>>16402312
That was the pagan Greeks. See what the educational curriculum was for people who actually accomplished anything of value in Europe, just like Islamic Golden Age they were studying Greeks.

[Anonymous No.16402328]

>>16402323
>Christian IQ
Europe hasn't even been Christian for 2000 years. Most it wasn't for half that.

[Anonymous No.16402340]

>>16402325
Of course, and the Greeks were studying the Egyptians prior also, and so on. That's the nature of cultures, and Western civilisation on a whole.

Too many people have no real definition for Paganism and Christianity, so they often lay on either Christianity or Paganism not their respective definitions, but the definitions of Religion in general. Such as "Hell is a pagan concept" whereas of course what is more correct is that Hell is merely a religious concept.

[Anonymous No.16402348]

>>16402328
It takes a unique kind of stupid for people to come to 4chan proselytizing Christianity, don't mind them.
>be /pol/
>"European culture and history is so based"
>"muh crusades were too, enslaving European and wiping out shitty European culture"
>"protestants are a heresy bot the true faith"
>"but illiterate knights who couldn't read or understand the Bible are our heroes"
Because Christianity is so much like Marxism it requires existing in perpetual doublethink.

[Anonymous No.16402351]

>>16402328
Why does it always have to turn into slander? You're such a brainlet, I didn't say 2000 years, I said "nearing two thousand years", I think it is your iq which is lacking.

Furthermore because you're incapable of thought like most modern-day LARPing Pagans, you ignored my point, you blame Christianity after nearly two thousand years of ruling and Europe reaching its peak, for our civilisation declining now. But then you must also, by the very same token, blame Roman paganism irrespective of its great achievements and living history, for the decline that Rome did have in its presence.

[Anonymous No.16402352]

>>16402340
what texts were the greeks studying?

[Anonymous No.16402355]

>>16402323
The downfall of Rome was the result of a lot of factors and none of them have to do with paganism. The empire got too large and was difficult to manage. The wars of conquest also stopped because the empire was large enough as it was, which meant their steady supply of slaves and war prisoners ended. They also suffered from periods where they had one shitty incompetent ruler after another, not to mention corruption. They also started relying too much on mercenary barbarian armies which ended up turning on them.

[Anonymous No.16402359]

>>16402351
Sorry you suck at math and also history, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.16402361]

>>16402348
>It takes a unique kind of stupid for people to come to 4chan proselytizing Christianity, don't mind them.
No you retard, that guy decided to turn the thread into a trainwreck talking about "muh evil jewish god", it's him that started proselytizing and all you've done is help him destroy the thread. Literally you pagans can't even have a thread merely enjoying pagan thinkers.

[Anonymous No.16402363]

>>16402352
Are you a moron? You don't know that practically the entire basis for every advancement by the Greeks came from the Egyptians? From religion to astronomy, that's where it came from.

[Anonymous No.16402368]

>>16402361
maybe you should go back to /r/the_donald

[Anonymous No.16402370]

>>16402363
You can't specify what texts those are because you never read them, thats the point. You're just regurgitating stuff you heard without even bothering to pick up the classics.

[Anonymous No.16402371]

>>16402355
>there aren't an infinitely larger set of factors today in the modern world which are causing this decline and cannot be blamed upon Christianity

>>16402359
Nice argument fag, go get fucked in the ass and LARP about how you're being so Greek(when of course, you wouldn't know the first thing about being a Greek).

[Anonymous No.16402375]

>>16402368
Not an argument.

>>16402370
It's at the point where history, does not require me reading ancient Egyptians. Or do you claim that I'm wrong? I'll read whatever is left of the Egyptians at some point, but that has no relevancy for the fact of history that the Greeks travelled to Egypt and built on their developments.

[Anonymous No.16402379]

>>16402371
>go get fucked in the ass and LARP about how you're being so Greek(
If you were literate you'd know Plato(the chief figure of Western philosophical tradition) said fags like you should be locked up.

[Anonymous No.16402380]

>>16402371
I wasn't really blaming Christianity either.

[Anonymous No.16402385]

>>16402379
THAT'S WHY I SAID IN BRACKETS "YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT BEING GREEK".

How low is your iq, can you detect not a single subtlety? Do you need me to explain da argument to you? Duhh duuhdduhh.

[Anonymous No.16402390]

>>16402375
>Greeks travelled to Egypt and built on their developments
This is like some super vague shit though, how much of it is expanded and improved by Greeks and is it ALL Egyptian? That seems unlikely, surely they derive a bit from elsewhere too.

Greece is also important because they actively left us works to study and pass on to shape us in such a significant way. If you've never even bothered to read either maybe yiu should just shut the fuck up?

[Anonymous No.16402392]

>>16402380
Then I'm glad we can agree, I was just using that example to show how blaming Christianity for a civilisation declining after nearing two thousand years of Europe's greatest achievements, you would also have to ignore all of Rome's pagan achievements and blame their religion for not securing the prosperity of its civilisation in its lowest and latest decline.

But LARPers don't think.

[Anonymous No.16402395]

>>16402390
>expecting Christians to ever stop being overly opinionated over subjects they know nothing about

[Anonymous No.16402398]

>>16402390
When did I say I hadn't read the Greeks? I've read all of the Greeks you nitwit, but I was saying that it's an almost 100% certain fact that there would be no Greeks to get started without the Egyptians. There's never going to be some neolithic super Aryan Wodan cult that suddenly just develops over 5000 years of achievements in mathematics, philosophy, religion and art. No culture just springs out of nowhere like that, and it is disingenuous and as I said earlier a misunderstanding of the definition of religion and culture, to somehow take credit for all of Christianity's achievements because they built directly upon the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.16402404]

>>16402392
Attributing mathematical and astronomical discoveries to Christian dogma simply because the church had a monopoly on power is fucking silly. It was a thousand years after Europe converted before the Renaissance came and it sure as shit isn't named for a revival in bible study.

[Anonymous No.16402408]

>>16402363
You're the moron lmao what egyptian texts were the Greeks studying in the classical period you dipshit?

[Anonymous No.16402411]

>>16402351
>>16402371
Christianity didn't spread into Germany and the other third of Europe until Charlemagne, Rus, and conversion of Bulgars and Slavs. All around the 9th and 10th century. Scandinavians not until 10-11th century. West Slavs and Balts didn't become christian until the high middle ages. And there were Hellenic "pagans" within Byzantium still in the 9th century with active temples, and Byzantine writers from the time kept referring to "Hellenes" (their word for pagans) still in the second millennium; as if there still was an active non-christian presence to defend christian doctrine from (and they weren't referring to Muslims since these weren't called Hellenes).

[Anonymous No.16402416]

>>16402398
>I've read all of the Greeks you nitwit
Okay, which allegory is used as the framework for Platos metaphysical system consisting of four different parts

Why did Socrates want to kill the bird

[Anonymous No.16402425]

>>16402404
I never said that, stop setting up strawmen. However I am attributing those developments to Christendom, who were evidently Christian. But I do say that to great degree, much of the developments of Europe after Paganism was directly due to Christianity, and these achievements manifest in a deeply Christian way, far more than merely an outer aesthetic as Pagans would have it believed. If we lay hold on one example, the art of music would never have been raised to the equal level of admiration as the others, had it not been for the Christian religion.

[Anonymous No.16402432]

>>16402408
How many texts do you think we have of basic shit like that? Besides, you're literally

>ugghh, can I have a sauce for that, ughh give me a sauce for that universally accepted fact history

[Anonymous No.16402434]

>>16402411
What's your point? I said nearing two thousand years with its presence in Europe, and furthermore during Europe's greatest achievements.

What was I wrong about? All this screeching disagrees with nothing I said.

[Anonymous No.16402437]

>>16402434
prots aren't christian

[Anonymous No.16402440]

>>16402425
>the art of music would never have been raised to the equal level of admiration as the others
If you'd read the Greeks you'd know that the discovery of musical chords are attributed to Pythagoras, that the Universe was described as working in a kind of musical harmony(Copernicus also wrote a book named after this, given the Greek influence on him), and that music was an incredibly important part of Greek philosophy ever after.

Where do you think trivium and quadrivium even came from? What a dumbdumb.

[Anonymous No.16402443]

>>16402416
Still waiting.

[Anonymous No.16402444]

>>16402416
I'm going to say the cave, and no clue about the bird.

But I should also say, it's been multiple years since I've read them and I've only particularly studied the later dialogues. But you also ignored the entirety of the rest of my post, and see how you paganis must pick on details? You have no major arguments. Now please answer properly this:

>There's never going to be some neolithic super Aryan Wodan cult that suddenly just develops over 5000 years of achievements in mathematics, philosophy, religion and art. No culture just springs out of nowhere like that, and it is disingenuous and as I said earlier a misunderstanding of the definition of religion and culture, to somehow take credit for all of Christianity's achievements because they built directly upon the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.16402458]

>>16402437
Okay brainlet.

>>16402440
I know that, but it's completely unrelated to what I said. Discovering chords and creating a mathematical-geometrical mythical organisation of music(and I have read the Pythagorean sourcebook) is not raising it to an equal level of sculpture or poetry, it can even be said music was still such a mysterious thing to the Greeks because of its lack of full development and open-ness to variation. But it would not have developed into a Bach, from the churches and monastery's were it not for Christianity.

[Anonymous No.16402463]

>>16402444
1. The answer is the Analogy of the Divided Line. This is the question that shows if someone knows their shit.
You failed.
2. Socrates famous, though often misunderstood last words about sacrificing a chicken to Asclepius is a joke about being cured of the illness of life with the cure of death.
This question is intended to see if you even read the entry level dialogues.

[Anonymous No.16402468]

>>16402458
>not raising it to an equal level of sculpture or poetry
Have you seen Hellenic sculpture, or read its poetry? Its pretty great.

[Anonymous No.16402472]

>>16402458
i'm a prot and i am guided by the holy spirit that says that the entire bible is false
I am Christian.

[Anonymous No.16402476]

>>16402463
>1. The answer is the Analogy of the Divided Line. This is the question that shows if someone knows their shit.
Oh okay of the senses to thought with imagination closer to the senses? Yes I'm familiar with it brainlet, but the cave is a manifestation of it and also fits.

>2. Socrates famous, though often misunderstood last words about sacrificing a chicken to Asclepius is a joke about being cured of the illness of life with the cure of death.
I did read the Phaedo, but do you expect me to remember such a little detail? It does seem familiar now that you've said it, but no I don't have a very strong memory of it.

[Anonymous No.16402477]

>>16402468
That's why I said music was not raised as an equal art to them.

>>16402472
Good for you pal.

[Anonymous No.16402490]

>>16402477
So I'm a valid christian?
well how do you tell who is and isn't a christian?
the ontology of Protestantism dictates that there can't be a standard of basic belief since that would affirm the Church and tradition and contradict the truth in any individual.

[Anonymous No.16402494]

>>16402490
No, the ontology of Protestantism does not affirm that. But your vulpine intellect is considerably quite low and this pathetic nitpicking is achieving nothing.

[Anonymous No.16402499]

>>16402463
>>16402476
Furthermore, YOU SAID ALLEGORY. The divided line is not an allegory, the cave is, hence I said the cave.

What happened to your pagan honour? Not honourable enough to be honest in an online conversation anyhow.

[Anonymous No.16402503]

>>16402476
Yeah I wouldn't expect the answers to immediately come to you when the questions are worded so you can't google them.

Many are the thyrsus bearers but few are the perfected. :)

[Anonymous No.16402508]

>>16402494
>Protestantism does not affirm that
according to what rock?

[Anonymous No.16402509]

>>16402499
Darn I really threw off your Google search there huh

[Anonymous No.16402511]

>>16402499
>The divided line is not an allegory

[Anonymous No.16402519]

>>16402476
>such a little detail

[Anonymous No.16402526]

>>16402503
>>16402509
It's not a google search you brainlet, do you mean to tell me you've never come across someone who couldn't remember the divided line? I've literally seen someone use the same example and an anon only remembered it when it was mentioned. It's easily forgettable, as I'm sure you'd disagree, in the entire works of Plato.

But now let me test you if you're going to be so dishonest(you literally asked me the wrong question calling it an allegory and then claim I google searched it? YOU LITERALLY GAVE ME THE WRONG QUESTION, AND THE CLOSES THING IS THE CAVE, which is as I said an expression of the line), in what dialogue does Plato affirm the instance as the conclusion to a problem and a radical overturning of his early philosopy?

[Anonymous No.16402532]

>>16402511
>>16402519
Calm down there samefag, and yes it is neither an allegory, and the chicken is indeed a little detail.

[Anonymous No.16402542]

>>16402526
>do you mean to tell me you've never come across someone who couldn't remember the divided line?
I don't often come across people who say they read and understood Greek philosophy. I knew you were full of shit so I gave you two questions, one laughably easy and the other a bit more advanced to see where you're really at.

[Anonymous No.16402558]

>>16402542
No anon, I just don't focus all of my time on the Republic. Hence I said I've spent most of my time with Plato on his later dialogues, and here where I devote most of my time on Plato for, you ignore the question. Because I doubt you even understand late Plato.

You're nothing but a LARPer without an argument, you wish to nitpick and think you have an argument when someone forgets something, Socrates would be disgusting, and you never answered this point because you only wish to be a sophist:

>There's never going to be some neolithic super Aryan Wodan cult that suddenly just develops over 5000 years of achievements in mathematics, philosophy, religion and art. No culture just springs out of nowhere like that, and it is disingenuous and as I said earlier a misunderstanding of the definition of religion and culture, to somehow take credit for all of Christianity's achievements because they built directly upon the Greeks.

And you also didn't answer me which dialogue Plato speaks of the instance, it seems to me that you lack any knowledge of the late dialogues because you're too timid to give an answer. I gave a casual answer, and the sophist here builds his entire argument on it.

[Anonymous No.16402559]

>>16402307
>my ancestors were dumb dumb cavemen before the Jews showed them the way
Yes, very based and redpilled.

>>16402432
It's a universally accepted fact that the Greeks innovated and then attributed it to the Egyptians all the fucking time. They made fun of themselves for this. They made fun of themselves for the whole "Phoenix" thing. Hermes Trismegistus is the apotheosis of this effect, in that he has precisely zero Egyptian influence, and is entirely Greek (even the "Thrice-Great" is an ancient Greek epithet attested by Linear B texts, but absolutely nowhere by the Egyptians). In order to take the meme even further, the Greeks established his cult in Egypt THEMSELVES and got Egyptians to take part so they could say "See! Very old, very wise, very Egyptian!" despite it being entirely Greek. There is no historian, or indeed layman, that will agree with your point. For fuck's sakes, one of the people spreading this stupid meme here and on plebbit says he got it by deciphering texts from the pyramids himself.

So, yes, you have to cite evidence of your claim, as you and a few schizos are literally the only ones making it.

[Anonymous No.16402563]

>>16402532
It really isn't that little of a detail, Nietzsche dedicated a whole section of Twilight of the Idols railing at that sentence.

[Anonymous No.16402570]

>>16402563
Do you think I've read Nietzsche? Besides, you suppose that I understand the reference in the first place. I believe I remember laughing at it, but I didn't understand it.

[Anonymous No.16402573]

>>16402558
>"I doubt you even understand late Plato"
>doesnt know the divided line

[Anonymous No.16402582]

>>16402559
>the Greeks were just pretending to have been influenced by the Egyptians and Pythagoras or any of the other presocratic thinkers didn't go there at all it's just a rumour that developed for no reason guys I swear!
Yeah I'll take Plato.

[Anonymous No.16402583]

>>16402570
>Do you think I've read Nietzsche?
Given that you hadn't even read the Greeks I am very doubtful you read much of anything lol

[Anonymous No.16402591]

>>16402532
>plato again showing his religious side against the whaling of the rationalists
>minor detail
>yes it is neither an allegory
>the divided line isn't an allegory for the chain of being from sensible body--to dianoetic soul--to Intellect and Being--to the super-essential gods and the One; literally being a different version of Plato's Cave.

[Anonymous No.16402602]

>>16402573
I do know it, but I forgot it. Yeesh, my only conclusion is that you're unable to think yourself. You resort to what you perceive to be a substantial argument but is instead merely sophistry.

Now will you answer my question, or do you suppose I somehow know more about Plato's late dialogues by google(where the answer to my particular question is not to be found on google or on any wikipedia page entry to a dialogue) than you who supposes yourself that you have read them?

Also you never replied to the fact that cultures build upon cultures, and you mistake definitions of culture and religion for particular cultures and religions and thereby also devoid paganism of any positive history.

[Anonymous No.16402615]

>>16402591
>The one is the highest metaphysical reality for Plato
Well it's clear that you actually haven't read him yourself then, because you'd know this is completely false and at best an unsolvable question if an academic feels like being coy.

But no, the line is a diagram not an allegory, know the difference which you blatantly lie about to further your ends.

[Anonymous No.16402617]

>>16402602
You're embarrassing yourself. The divided line is what Platos entire late works are working from. It is literally his Metaphysical framework.

[Anonymous No.16402624]

>>16402582
Still waiting for any sort of evidence for your claims as to what they actually studied there

[Anonymous No.16402625]

>>16402582
Oh, no, there's a good reason pseuds like you think this, the Greeks quite obviously say this. They also make fun of themselves for it, because it's obviously horseshit, as we have no evidence that the Egyptians thought any of this. There's no attestation by any authors at all, even Christian ones, that the Egyptians thought anything remotely similar to what the Greeks did (in fact, everything we had makes it clear they were not similar to the Greeks at all). The fact that you don't know what you're talking about is a demonstration of this.

You're new, so allow me to elaborate on this. You're making the mistake of thinking "Start with the Greeks" meant "the Greeks are for some arbitrary reason popular, so you're a Good Person who has the Right Opinions if you talk about how cool the Greeks were". That's not the case, at all. You're actually meant to read their works, and then keep going. Just posting pics of busts of Plato and saying how based he is is pointless. You're supposed to see the ideas they posit, and how they attempt to weave them together.

Which, is actually a really good criticism of what you're arguing, because the Egyptians didn't make up these doctrines (as you types claim), they got them from Apollo. So, really, you can skip Egypt and just go right to Apollo. You'd know this if you actually read the incredibly large and autistic intellectual lineages (plural, every writer had their own) the Greeks used to link patently disagreeing philosophers together, but then you don't read.

[Anonymous No.16402630]

>>16402617
No, you misunderstand Plato yourself. The diagram of the line is a basic expression of some core of his philosophy, but no dialogue can be taken as his centre or centrally explaining dialogue. They amass into something much larger which the Neoplatonists entirely missed with their abstractions.

[Anonymous No.16402644]

>>16402630
>No, you misunderstand Plato yourself
Yeah I'm not going to take someone seriously who didn't even know what it was until 5 minutes ago. Just stop.

[Anonymous No.16402647]

>>16402625
>Oh, no, there's a good reason pseuds like you think this, the Greeks quite obviously say this. They also make fun of themselves for it, because it's obviously horseshit,
This is absolutely ridiculous, even a quick google of astronomy of egypt will give an array of evident wherein this being such a complete historic fact does not need me to name some specific tablet. Your entire statement, is a schizo pagan larpers one.

>You're new, so allow me to elaborate on this. You're making the mistake of thinking "Start with the Greeks" meant "the Greeks are for some arbitrary reason popular, so you're a Good Person who has the Right Opinions if you talk about how cool the Greeks were".
What are you talking about you utter autist? I've read the Greeks, the Greeks serve as a foundation to the West and set up a classical image for some of the most basic things we know, such as even tactics, but I don't understand why you're rolling out this cliche rug. Who is saying any of this? I've read all of Plato, Homer, Hesiod, the tragedians and a chunk of the presocratics, get over yourself.

[Anonymous No.16402648]

I really like Strabo desu
Even though he has an occasionally spergasm about mining, he's probably the best pre-modern technology geographer-traveller far surpassing those that came before and after him in his keenness of observation and data analysis
He has the occasionally spergout about mining because that was probably what his actual field of work was but those can be skimmed for newer readers

[Anonymous No.16402656]

>>16402647
Lysis is traditionally the "Starting point" to the Greeks. Go crack open a book.

[Anonymous No.16402657]

>>16402236
>Dio Chrysostom
Any relation to St John?

[Anonymous No.16402658]

Hey I think you two should be more loving towards each other, we're all in it together bros

[Anonymous No.16402659]

>>16402644
Not an argument and Socrates would never resort to it. I did know what it was, but saying "what is the central ALLEGORY which has four parts to it" could be quite an array, and there are many examples of allegory's expressing this in Plato, most notably and more so than the line(since it isn't even an allegory which you lied about), the cave.

You're not arguing, you lack the ability to argue hence you never replied to one of my posts and instead had to resort on deception and and literally asking the wrong question for an answer you expected.

[Anonymous No.16402667]

>>16402658
Or more than two, this shit thread is tldr but I get the impression that 90% of it are those two bros shitstorming

[Anonymous No.16402669]

>>16402656
Kill yourself, I have read the Greeks and I don't need a LARPer to tell my otherwise. Furthermore "Plato Five Dialogues" or Ion are much better starting points than Lysis(what are you thinking with that).

>>16402658
Well he has a mind like a jew and asks me for a Plato allegory, then says the answer was not an allegory but he was just "making it difficult for me", it is evident he relies on deception to "win" rather than show the truth in an argument like Socrates and I could never be friends with a man who lacks all honour.

[Anonymous No.16402672]

>>16402659
>Not an argument
You are the kind of person Socrates disliked most, someone who claims to know what you don't know. Its mega ironic yiud attempt to bring up 'late dialogues' without knowing how important those parts of Republic are for interpreting them.

[Anonymous No.16402678]

>>16402669
>relies on deception
Clearly you. You relied on Google rather than actually knowing something.

[Anonymous No.16402685]

>>16402669
So, you don't have a source on the Egyptians believing these things?

See >>16402656, then.

[Anonymous No.16402686]

>>16402657
Chrysostom was a sort of "title", it means "gold-mouthed" because both Dio and John were known as really good orators for their times

[Anonymous No.16402691]

>>16402669
How is Ion of all dialogues a good starting point?
It's one of the trollier dialogues, it's like telling people to start with Euthydemus

[Anonymous No.16402695]

>>16402672
Not at all, I know exactly what I have claimed to know and Socrates is very generous in conversation, repeatedly allowing(as in the Gorgias) someone to be deceptive or disingenuous to him and continuing the dialogue, trying to show how they were wrong in the context of the greater purpose of the dialogue. You have done none of this, least of all admitted your're blatantly lying, and if you wish to believe such lies about me, then if you were in anyway like Socrates you would wish to continue the dialogue on friendly terms. But it was you who brought the insult initially into the thread, "peerless polis" I name you, and that is a very specific quote from the Gorgias only someone who read it could name, as it is entirely relevant to what I'm saying.

I have been trying to get back to the topic this entire time and you've just been throwing adhoms, please tell me in what dialogue is the Instance taken up, or we can throw that away entirely where I am willing to be more generous than you, and we can return to the original point:

>There's never going to be some neolithic super Aryan Wodan cult that suddenly just develops over 5000 years of achievements in mathematics, philosophy, religion and art. No culture just springs out of nowhere like that, and it is disingenuous and as I said earlier a misunderstanding of the definition of religion and culture, to somehow take credit for all of Christianity's achievements because they built directly upon the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.16402699]

>>16402669
>doesnt have a source
>believes some random schizo on reddit over the Greeks
this is why you have to actually read them, and not just talk about how BASADO and REDPILLADO they are, anon. you're intellectually cucking yourself here, by choosing the life of a bugman.

[Anonymous No.16402703]

>>16402695
>I have been trying to get back to the topic this entire time and you've just been throwing adhoms
Proving you don't know what you're talking about with two questions is not an adhom

[Anonymous No.16402704]

>>16402678
Merely lies.

>>16402691
Because it uses the Socratic method in an incredibly basic way leaving the dialogue off only in two results and choices, where of course Ion chooses and it is resolved. And has those same mythological qualities found in many of Plato's dialogues, just far simpler(it's probably the simplest metaphor in all his works, the magnets).

[Anonymous No.16402707]

>>16402669
>What was he thinking with that
Lysis is one of the earliest dialogue and a very solid introduction to how Plato actually works
Five dialogues follows the tetralogical model (oh and Memnon is in there for some retarded reason)
But yeah your entire arguementation sounds like someone who read five dialogues and nothing else and is now trying to lecture people

[Anonymous No.16402713]

>>16402703
That is not a reply anon and you know that, I have dealt exactly with what you've just said in the post you are replying to here, but you wish to have snarky bitchy insults continually exchanged.

>Proving you don't know what you're talking about with two questions is not an adhom
Do you not see how bitchy this is? You're like a woman, just get to the argument.

[Anonymous No.16402718]

>>16402704
>Dude, use a meme dialogue of dubious authorship because it's simplistic
Your arguement makes no sense, if that's why you suggest ion, then Charmides, Lysis and Laches are all MUCH BETTER because they actually fulfill that requirement but I guess this is what Wikipedia "reading" does to your brain

[Anonymous No.16402720]

>>16402707
>Memnon
Why do you keep calling it this? I've read it and I don't know why you're calling it this.

>But yeah your entire arguementation sounds like someone who read five dialogues and nothing else and is now trying to lecture people
Not at all, I've read most of Plato's works but as I said, the past year I've spent most of my time with Plato on his later dialogues.

[Anonymous No.16402724]

>>16402718
>Ion
>dubious authorship
I've never known someone to claim this, isn't it one of the most favoured?

>but I guess this is what Wikipedia "reading" does to your brain
Try to find what I said on Ion, on the wiki. What I said could only have come from the dialogue itself.

[Anonymous No.16402730]

>>16402266
At the point that Christianity took over, people had basically stopped believing in the pagan gods and were following different versions of monotheism (Hypsistarians, proselytizing Judaism, Neo-Platonism, cult of Sol Invictus, Mithraism, Manicheism, etc.). Paganism with its particularisms stopped making logical sense to the intellectual urbanites of late stage civilization. Christianity won because it brought prophetic traditions, miracles and social work into monotheistic universalism.

[Anonymous No.16402736]

>>16402615

[Anonymous No.16402739]

>>16402266
I wonder how different Europe would be if Athens didn't exist

[Anonymous No.16402740]

>>16402713
>Do you not see how bitchy this is?
See,
>>16402351
>>16402361
>>16402363
>>16402371
>>16402385
>>16402398
The irony is palpable. You got blown out so hard now you forgot your childish behavior.

[Anonymous No.16402742]

>>16402736

[Anonymous No.16402753]

>>16402740
Explain to me what is childish about insulting after you insulted me? How is this childish:

>Why does it always have to turn into slander?

I think you lack the brain of an adult.

[Anonymous No.16402756]

>>16402753
No u

[Anonymous No.16402763]

>>16402756
Faggot.

[Anonymous No.16402773]

>>16402763
Poopy-pants

[Anonymous No.16402784]

>>16402773
Auto-immune disorder.

[Anonymous No.16402791]

>>16402784
Kek I'm not even the dude you talked to previously

[Anonymous No.16402799]

>>16402266
Thanks for derailing the thread faggot.

[Anonymous No.16402800]

>>16402753
>after you insulted me?
You acted like a child and didn't even know anything about the subject.

[Anonymous No.16402801]

>>16402791
Kys tranny.

[Anonymous No.16402812]

>>16402801
>kill yourself tranny
Fuck you for derailing the thread fuck you to the m00n

[Anonymous No.16402813]

>>16402800
Not an argument, that is an adhom. You should know by now the difference. But a pig never gets tired of filth. I think it is the one who insulted first, and refused to argue and only insult- was the one who acted like a child.

[Anonymous No.16402822]

>>16402812
It wasn't me, it was the pagan; and it's MY thread in the beginning. I made the thread, I can taketh it away, but I did not and never wished to; the pagan did because he can't stop seething from morning to night about Christianity's cutting down of his oak tree.

[Anonymous No.16402831]

>>16402822
Ok my bad but I don't really make out which one of you is which at this point, I read like the first two dozen replies but then I finished taking a shit and had to move my ass somewhere so here I am

[Anonymous No.16402836]

This has been a most endearing thread, but I must say I need to leave now.

[Anonymous No.16402839]

>>16402813
Whatever helps you cope

[Anonymous No.16402840]

>>16402831
Well, auf wiedersehen anon.

[Anonymous No.16402845]

>>16402742

[Anonymous No.16402850]

>>16402840
Do widzenia, Anon-chan

[Anonymous No.16402860]

Literally /pol/ tier drivel, you faggots happy that this devolved in to pagan-christian shit flinging thread #35000430?

>>16402236
Pausanias, might as well clean up the absolute dump these retards left. It is a great insight into the lived life of the roman golden age in greece.

[Anonymous No.16402873]

>>16402236
>But it can be a modern or ancient Greek.
>modern Greek
Can I include modern Roman and modern Carthaginian authors too?

[Anonymous No.16402875]

>>16402266
Europe certainly wouldn't be a desert of nihilism and atheism.

[Anonymous No.16402883]

>>16402845

[Anonymous No.16402895]

>>16402860
Thank you.

>>16402873
Sure anon.

[Anonymous No.16402921]

>>16402895
I was making fun of you for your stupid, nonsensical post. You idiot! You clown!

[Anonymous No.16402958]

>>16402883

[Anonymous No.16402963]

>>16402822
>the pagan did because he can't stop seething from morning to night about Christianity's cutting down of his oak tree
Where is any of that itt? Are yiu living in a DreamWorld like your Jewish sorcery stories again?

[Anonymous No.16402972]

>>16402875
I agree, nihilism is a natural product of living in an alien culture not connected by ethnicity

[Anonymous No.16403000]

>>16402875
>>16402972
Dont want to get too into it. But could you say a certain kind of nihilism is what brought a lot of the romans into christianity to begin with along with other mystery religions?

[Anonymous No.16403148]

>>16402958
So who won in the end?

[Anonymous No.16403171]

>>16403148

[Anonymous No.16403231]

>>16402355
You totally missed the point.

[Anonymous No.16403366]

>>16402266
Every empire has only as many spiritual semites as it deserves.