I don't get it

[Anonymous No.16221163]

>for potential to exist, actuality must exist first
>movement is a botched actuality because it is bound by time
>movement marks the beginning or the end of a cause
>if something is unmoved it must either have never produced actuality or it must have been eternally actual
>therefore if the Demiurge is unmoved he is eternal and so is the universe
What did Proclus mean by this? How is the universe as a whole on par with the demiurge which is purely intellectual?

[Anonymous No.16221259]

>>16221163
since the demiurge is eternal (meaning changeless) he "can't" begin doing something or stop doing something since these are aspects of time, therefore he's always created the universe

[Anonymous No.16221314]

>>16221259
not op but the universe is in time

[Anonymous No.16221335]

>>16221314
Universe doesn't mean the observable universe

[Anonymous No.16221340]

>>16221335
He probably meant universe in a panpsychist sense (consciousness of the universe)

[Anonymous No.16221395]

>>16221259
This refutes the Christian god, does it not?

[Anonymous No.16221447]

>>16221335
so you mean all logoi and principles of cosmos?

>>16221395
how?

[Anonymous No.16221470]

>>16221395
Literally everything refutes christianity, even schizos like gnostics.

[Anonymous No.16221486]

>>16221470
imagine being this desperate

[Anonymous No.16221487]

>>16221395
yes, also the incarnation, going by the doctrine that god is timeless; he's had to always have incarnated eternally, even if the event in the universe takes place in time---it never began to take place, or cease, in heaven. Thus necessarily the logos has to have been in hypostatic union eternally (but not temporally).

[Anonymous No.16221495]

>>16221395
Catholicism only
Palamas figured a way out of it

[Anonymous No.16221496]

>>16221447
>how?
Christianity teaches that God decided to create the world ex nihilo therefore he became a creator. The two other persons also go through change all the time such as incarnations or the holy spirit going from not having entered the soul to being infused with baptism etc

[Anonymous No.16221499]

>>16221486
Imagine being so butthurt you must murder people to keep your flawed desert cult in charge

[Anonymous No.16221503]

>>16221486
23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!”

24 So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the Lord. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

[Anonymous No.16221509]

>>16221496
You should read Boethius, Maximus Omologite, Gregorius of Nyssa and Gregorius Palamas
The problem here is not with God, it is with our perception

[Anonymous No.16221534]

>>16221499
you're literally saying anything refutes christianity without having even a superficial knowledge of christian theology.
>desert cult
what is not from the desert, that is, mediterranean/near east?
what are you doing in a thread on platonism, you have no depth

>>16221496
incarnationS? the person of christ (Son) is not changed in incarnation, two natures undivided and unmixed, in the same and only hypostasis. do you know anything about christianity? also creation does not only mean what is physical, angels are created too. all logoi subsist in the logos and the logos in all logoi. this has nothing to do with physical, observable universe.

[Anonymous No.16221566]

>>16221534
through the human nature the Logos goes from not experiencing time to experiencing time.

[Anonymous No.16221576]

>>16221566
Time is an illusion
Read Boethius and about Planck Length

[Anonymous No.16221584]

GNOSTICS WIN

[Anonymous No.16221587]

>>16221576
fuck off, we're talking about orthodox doctrine

[Anonymous No.16221595]

>>16221566
christ is the anthropocosmos, his death was recollection of all creation, gathering all in divine eternity, etc. you can start with lossky

[Anonymous No.16221608]

>>16221587
Is Boethius not considered part of the platonic canon anymore :(

[Anonymous No.16221613]

>>16221608
i'm talking about christian orthodoxy

[Anonymous No.16221625]

>>16221595
so?
through the human nature the Logos goes from not experiencing time to experiencing time.
Christ is still human in heaven, still temporal and nontemporal; from having been only nontemporal.

[Anonymous No.16221641]

>>16221163
Keep turning things on it's head boy, of course you won't get it
It's cute watching all you losers jism over discovering old metaphysical porn that grownups have left laying around for ages, because it only hints at the mystery

[Anonymous No.16221656]

>>16221625
there are so many christological books specifically touching on this point, i myself havent read much on it but christ was never in time but time in christ, history begins with him, like creation and he assumed the middle point of creation (humanity) in order to recollect it.

[Anonymous No.16221713]

>>16221656
>christ doesn't INCARNATE into all creation
sounds like HERESY

[Anonymous No.16221726]

>>16221534
>christian theology.
Christian theology is just a bunch of soulless monks trying to twist the meaning of the words in the bible to adapt it to western standards. The bible is filled with countless contradictions which can only seem logical through mental gymnastics.

[Anonymous No.16221766]

>>16221726
by christian theology i mean theology, which was written since the first century and i doubt it had ''western standards'' as its goal, whatever this mean to you. anyway you have no rigour at all this is clear in all these empty posts of yours, just leave this thread

[Anonymous No.16221788]

>>16221766
>by christian theology i mean theology, which was written since the first century and i doubt it had ''western standards'' as its goal
Yeah I'm sure all those contradictions were patched up for the muslims or the niggers in africa

[Anonymous No.16221837]

>>16221726
>>16221788
>>16221499
>>16221470
ah, the spiritual enlightenment of the antichristian. truly wonderful

[Anonymous No.16221848]

>>16221837
Cope. Your contradictory cuck cult is on its last legs and you'll live long enough to see it being disbanded.

[Anonymous No.16221857]

>>16221395
No the Trinity specifically deals with problems like that.

[Anonymous No.16221866]

>>16221848
from your posts it seems that you are the one that fears something. what troubles your mind, angry one?