/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16210295]

>he reads a shitload of foreign literature in translation
Is there a greater mark of the pseud?

[Anonymous No.16210306]

>>16210295
Translations are based. All the greats read at least one translation.

[Anonymous No.16210316]

>>16210306
*blocks your path*

[Anonymous No.16210326]

>he reads translations
Who fucking cares?
>i'm smarter than the eceleb
Who fucking cares?

[Anonymous No.16210358]

>>16210326
The fact that most translations are trash and most translators are incompetent should disconcert any serious person. The vast majority of languages are impossible to really translate into English in the first place. The more different the language is from English, the more compromise. But even similar languages like French involve tons of compromise. You're not a serious learner if this doesn't bother you.

[Anonymous No.16210379]

>>16210358
Okay pseud

[Anonymous No.16210386]

>>16210379
classic pseud response

[Anonymous No.16210388]

>>16210379
>monolingual gets BTFO'd hard and exposed
>o- okay pseud!
Thanks for playing, anon. Now go learn French already, pleb.

[Anonymous No.16210395]

>>16210358
got a source for that champ?

[Anonymous No.16210399]

>>16210395
>got a source for that champ?

[Anonymous No.16210401]

>>16210316
>Pound
>great

[Anonymous No.16210405]

>>16210358
The primal simplicity of an idea can never be rendered into any language. The "original work" itself is a translation of a prismatic notion which can never be understood except by executing it yourself. You are simply too lazy to do this, and so you cope.

[Anonymous No.16210406]

>>16210401
He is. You mad?

[Anonymous No.16210413]

>>16210405
>The primal simplicity of an idea can never be rendered into any language.
Meaningless sentence.
>The "original work" itself is a translation of a prismatic notion which can never be understood except by executing it yourself.
Meaningless sentence.
>You are simply too lazy to do this, and so you cope.
Monolingual calling someone else lazy? Learn French, pleb. It's not that hard.

[Anonymous No.16210415]

>>16210406
Dante is great. Yeats is great. Pound is just alright.

[Anonymous No.16210418]

>>16210415
Pound is the most important of the modernists, cope harder.

[Anonymous No.16210420]

>>16210413
You can't even understand two plain English sentences. Meanwhile I, a trilingual chad, actually do speak French. Your post fails on every level.

[Anonymous No.16210428]

>>16210420
>The primal simplicity of an idea can never be rendered into any language.
This literally doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous No.16210429]

>>16210418
No, that'd be Joyce. Pound is just important because he helped Joyce morally and economically. His actual work is mediocre at best.

[Anonymous No.16210437]

>>16210429
>thinking there would be joyce without pound

[Anonymous No.16210439]

>Interviewer: It's disturbing to think that we've read many gods (James, Stendhal, Proust) in translations, in this second-hand versions. Is this literature? If we go about this issue, it's possible that we end up concluding that words don't have an equivalent.

>Bolaño: I think they do have it. Besides, literature is not made by words alone. Borges says that there are unstranslatable authors. I think he mentions Quevedo as an example. We could add García Lorca and others. Despite all that, a work such as Don Quixote could resist even the worst translator. What's more: it could resist mutilation, the loss of numerous pages, and even a shit storm. All in all, poorly translated, incomplete and damaged, that version of Don Quixote could say a lot to a Chinese man or to an African man. And that is literature, undoubtedly. Maybe a lot is lost along the way, without a doubt, but maybe that was its destiny. We get what we get.

[Anonymous No.16210450]

>>16210437
Thank you for agreeing that Pound's actual work is dogshit LMAO no further replies

[Anonymous No.16210455]

>>16210428
Right, like I said, you can't understand plain English sentences. Guessing you're ESL but It's possible that your IQ is just too low. Do you read the Simple English wiki?

[Anonymous No.16210459]

>>16210439
>he thinks n*ggers read
>he thinks n*ggers can understand the quijote
Sorry, anon. Sounds pretty retarded to me.

[Anonymous No.16210476]

>>16210455
You will never understand the ulterior complexity of the concept that can be rendered into all languages. The "original work" itself is a translation of an iridescent anti-notion which can always be understood except by executing it yourself. You are simply too productive to do this, and so you are content.

You say, anyone can write meaningless shit.

[Gustav Klimt No.16210490]

>>16210295
AI, faggot.

[Anonymous No.16210499]

>>16210459
He was a leftist, what did you expect. His general message still stands, though. Literature is more than words.

[Anonymous No.16210521]

>>16210476
Right, you're never gonna come to an understanding of the post by changing random nouns around. Best of luck champ, you'll master English eventually. My advice? Read more. Start with translations.

[Anonymous No.16210533]

>>16210499
Well, he is basically just saying no matter how bad a translation is, some of the ideas can get through. I would concede that point, but is that why we read, to maybe pick up on some of the ideas in a book? That's the lowest level of engagement. And he is saying that is only true of some books, such as the Quijote. He seems to agree with Borges that some writers can't be translated. So why not just learn Spanish? Then you could read Quevedo, García Lorca, and Cervantes in the original Spanish and engage with them at the highest level right down to the intricacies of the Spanish language itself.

[Anonymous No.16210542]

>>16210439
>Borges says that there are unstranslatable authors.
This is just Latino cope. He really wants you to think he's one of the untranslatables, lol.

[Anonymous No.16210552]

>>16210521
I simply don't care to bother with your nonsensical schizo-post. You don't have the renown for me to want to untangle your obscurantist rant. Keep it simple until you're a big enough name to get away with that kind of stuff. You're not Hegel, retard. You're a random anon and I don't care to sit and figure what you could mean by "prismatic notion." Fucking autist.

[Anonymous No.16210561]

>>16210542
>Latino
*latinx, ftfy.

[Anonymous No.16210563]

>>16210358
>>16210388
>monolingual
Projecting cope
I speak 3 languages and even if you speak 6 major languages you still have to read translations from languages you don't know, there are hundred of fucking languages

[Anonymous No.16210564]

Translating into English actually improves the work

[Anonymous No.16210578]

>>16210552
You're now trying to use multisyllabic words to convince the crowd that you're intelligent. This is betrayed by your slow devolution into insults throughout the post. Calm down, take a deep breath. Nobody reading this cares, and you're anonymous. It's going to be alright.

[Anonymous No.16210588]

>>16210563
When did I ever say to not read translations, are you retarded? All I said was that reading a ton of translations DOES make you a pseud. Serious readers should become literate in as many languages as they possibly can, but especially in the major European languages. At the very least they should learn French or Spanish. Being bilingual is still better than being monolingual.

[Anonymous No.16210595]

>>16210578
>You're now trying to use multisyllabic words to convince the crowd that you're intelligent.
I know they're big words, anon. Just google them. It's not that hard. That's how you learn new words.

[Anonymous No.16210621]

>>16210542
They're untranslatable to a degree, yes. I could flick through an English translation of either one and point out the mistakes without even comparing it to the original. That's how simple the translations are. There are parts in 2666 that will only make sense to a Mexican, and that's something that no translation will fix, that's the cultural baggage.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16210622]

>>16210561
Borges wasn’t a woman.

[Anonymous No.16210629]

>>16210595
There, there. It'll be ok.

[Anonymous No.16210637]

>>16210386
Cope
>>16210388
Projecting

[Anonymous No.16210639]

>>16210622
she looks like she has smelly feet

[Anonymous No.16210659]

>>16210639
She really does. I want to sniff them and lick the soles.

[Anonymous No.16210668]

>>16210542
Borges joked about how his translations were better than the original versions.

Don't you ever get tired of spewing dumb shit you try to pass as refined, patrician or even intelligent, when you're clearly this much of an ignorant fuck?

[Anonymous No.16210680]

>>16210668
>Borges joked about how his translations were better than the original versions.
That Mexican was a little bit up his own arse, wasn't he?

[Anonymous No.16210682]

>>16210668

[Anonymous No.16210692]

>>16210564
Translating means they have the same information density. I don't think you understand how translations work.

[Anonymous No.16210704]

>>16210682
>>16210680
No, he's right. Angloids will never understand Borges humor or use of irony and boutade.

[Anonymous No.16210738]

>>16210588
And when you read a lot the amount of translations you read increase to. That's tons to you, illiterate fuck

[Anonymous No.16210741]

>>16210680
I meant the English versions of his own works.
>>16210682
>dude be francophone it's soo easy
>these 3 languages I know are the best
>dude translations suck
>what are you a monolingual pleb?
>you can only read x% of translated books or you're a pseud
It's always the same tired shit with people like you. One day you'll grow out of these insecurities. Perhaps the very same day you actually start reading instead of shitposting.
For now, you remind me of a little kid who's learned something new, like a curse word in a different language, and acts all smug about it, demanding attention. Seek help.

[Anonymous No.16210752]

Friendly reminder that 99% of those on this board that complain about "monolinguals" and "Angloids" are mystery meat monkeys from South America.

[Anonymous No.16210754]

>>16210741
You seem to think that I'm a combination of different people from this thread. It's possibly a side effect of schizophrenia. Speak to a doctor.

[Anonymous No.16210755]

>>16210741
>>16210752
Seethe more.

[Anonymous No.16210756]

>>16210752
And that's a good thing.

[Anonymous No.16210759]

>>16210738
>It's always the same tired shit with people like you. One day you'll grow out of these insecurities.
Projecting.
>>16210738
>illiterate fuck
Says the monolingual to the polyglot.

[Anonymous No.16210767]

>>16210388
>this image
At least I hope you know Italian.

[Anonymous No.16210775]

>>16210752
Here are two of the aforementioned monkeys:
>>16210755
>>16210756

[Anonymous No.16210776]

>>16210767
Yeah, I've read two novels in Italian. It is admittedly my worst foreign language though. I've only been learning it for 4-5 months.

[Anonymous No.16210784]

>>16210775
Callate marica maldita

[Anonymous No.16210789]

>>16210386
You just repeated what he said to you tho

[Anonymous No.16210792]

>>16210784
What's it like being an ethnically ambiguous sack of brown flesh?

[Anonymous No.16210797]

>>16210792
That's what you'll ask your grandchildren (if you even have kids).

[Anonymous No.16210801]

>>16210792
I'm 100% Italian boludo lmao i'm probably whiter than you amerifatt 20% cherokee looking ass

[Anonymous No.16210804]

>>16210358
If you wanted to read all of Lit's top 100 books you'd need to learn English, Ancient Greek, Latin, Spanish, Danish, French, Arabic, German, Ancient Sanskrit, Russian, and Japanese. It may be bothersome but becoming fluent enough to competently understand complex works in all these languages is unrealistic. Serious learners should attempt to learn Latin, Ancient Greek, French, German, and English.

[Anonymous No.16210806]

>>16210789
>tho
negro detected

[Anonymous No.16210811]

If you don't know every single language and dialect in the world you're a fucking pseud and ngmi

[Anonymous No.16210815]

>>16210804
depends on which annual list

[Anonymous No.16210817]

>>16210797
The only way my grandchildren will be brown is by virtue of me fucking your sister.

[Anonymous No.16210819]

>>16210306
>>16210326
>>16210379
>>16210395
>>16210405
>>16210415
>>16210420
>>16210429
>>16210450
>>16210455
>>16210490
>>16210564
>>16210563
>>16210668
>>16210741
Clifford, bro, calm down... it's not that deep bro...

[Anonymous No.16210822]

>>16210358
>>16210804
I forgot Italian, since The Divine Comedy is on there.

[Anonymous No.16210825]

>>16210801
>I'm 100% Italian
An array of simian hoots and hollers would have sufficed.

[Anonymous No.16210835]

How do I quickly get fluent in a language

[Anonymous No.16210842]

>>16210815
The latest, I forgot to put Italian, but other lists have Old English (Beowulf) while others don't have Danish (Kierkegaard) or Ancient Sanskrit (Bhagavad Gita). Probably a few others I didn't see.

[Anonymous No.16210843]

>>16210776
>I've only been learning it for 4-5 months.
Godspeed, then.

[Anonymous No.16210844]

>>16210835
move to where it's talked

[Anonymous No.16210846]

>>16210811
why did Shakespeare make it, then?

[Anonymous No.16210849]

>>16210804
The most important languages that educated people have focused on in history are:
>English
>French
>Italian
>German
>Latin
>Greek
And sometimes
>Spanish

I think a serious reader should at least learn 1-2 of those. I'm not saying never read translations, but you should learn a foreign language so that when you do read a translation, you kind of know what you're dealing with. The best readers will try to learn all those languages. Specialists might choose different routes like Russian or something, personally I would recommend at least picking up French and mastering it. After that, just do what you want.

[Anonymous No.16210852]

>>16210533
Spanish is far down on my list of languages. Latin is exceptionally compelling. As is (classical) Greek. French, Russian, and German are all vastly more compelling than Spanish.

[Anonymous No.16210854]

>they can barely speak less than a handful of languages and they pride themselves in being polyglots

[Anonymous No.16210864]

>>16210817
Or you know, do nothing and just let us colonize America. We will win either way.

[Anonymous No.16210865]

>>16210852
I think literary speaking Spanish is actually an amazing language. If we're talking about just fiction I'd say it's more important than both German and Russian. But I get it, Mexicans really fucked up the image of the language lmao but good luck, anon. Latin is a great language as well. Honestly English, French and Latin is the most based combination imo.

[Anonymous No.16210876]

>>16210865
Mexicans, Colombians and Peruvians speak the best Spanish than all the other countries, though. Crystal clear, all the letters are pronounced, and no lispy faggotry.

[Anonymous No.16210886]

>>16210852
As a language, Spanish is objectively better than French.

[Anonymous No.16210892]

>>16210876
>Mexicans
Huge disagree. I can't fucking stand Mexican Spanish. Sounds like Aztec yapping.
>Colombians and Peruvians
Depends on the region, but I like some of their dialects. I think South American and Andalusian Spanish are the most beautiful dialects, once again depending on the region though.

[Anonymous No.16210904]

>>16210405
I think what you're saying applies more to subbed foreign films rather than literature. Literature can have a lot of abstract depth, which translations lose the nuance of. However, in the case of most film, translations can be sufficient in the sense each scene involves a kind of primal idea, which is conveyed in a metaphorical manner. That is, it is indefinite in meaning in some sense, and it can be more straight-forward. This means it can be understood by experiencing the sequence of events, which are generally simple.
Literature is more complex because there is a kind of intertextuality and complex arrangement of themes that require background knowledge to further disentangle, which may have root in the author's culture. Even the manner of describing the setting, psychology of characters, and so forth can be too complex for a translation to fully encompass.

[Anonymous No.16210915]

>>16210892
Funnily, the Spanish who arrived to Mexico were mostly from Andalusia and Aztecs were genocided. Few Mexicans have actual Aztec blood. South American Spanish other than Colombian and Peruvian, is god-awful. The worst one being the Chilean one.

[Anonymous No.16210917]

>>16210405
>>16210904
In summary: context in much of literature is multidimensional, much of it being rooted in the author's culture, unlike film. Therefore, translations for literature will always lose a lot.

[Anonymous No.16210923]

>>16210358
Suck my dick faggot, nobody's going to learn a language in this thread and you will swallow up the next threads with all the Translationchads secretions.

[Anonymous No.16210924]

>>16210915
This reeks of beaner cope.

[Anonymous No.16210928]

>>16210923
>Suck my dick faggot
>asking someone to suck his dick
>calling them a faggot
once again you're projecting anon

[Anonymous No.16210931]

>>16210864
Good luck getting to Australia, Paco.

[Anonymous No.16210933]

>>16210931
the chinks will do it for us

[Anonymous No.16210963]

>>16210752
They are based.

[Anonymous No.16210968]

>>16210924
It's all historically true. The reason why Mexicans don't have a faggy lisp is because of Southern Spanish settlers and most have non-Aztec native blood from the mixing with the Spanish. The Holy Trinity of best Spanish is Mexico, Colombia and Peru. Of course, if you judge an entire dialect by the lower class regional dialects you'll find it horrible (it's like judging English by ebonics or cockney), but the best speakers of the language are definitely among these three nations.

[Anonymous No.16210972]

Friendly reminder that 99% of those on this board that complain about polyglots and ESLs are fat angloids with 20-30% cherokee blood and receding chins.

[Anonymous No.16210974]

>>16210928
Yes, I'm urging you to perform a fellation on me and keep your moth shut, shitposterboi.

[Anonymous No.16210975]

>>16210931
You're too irrelevant to be colonized.

[Anonymous No.16210986]

>>16210968
>The reason why Mexicans don't have a faggy lisp is because of Southern Spanish settlers
No one in latin america has a lisp no matter which spaniards colonized them. most of mexicans except the most educated have a disgusting accent that sounds more indigenous than european. cope all you want but it's true.

[Anonymous No.16210989]

>>16210904
>>16210917
I don't agree at all.
I think what I said in the first place was right.

[Anonymous No.16210994]

>>16210963
They are you.

[Anonymous No.16210995]

>>16210989
Cope harder monogloid

[Anonymous No.16211002]

>me reading all the monogloid seethe in the thread
how can monogloids cope with being the world's biggest pseuds? hahaha

[Anonymous No.16211004]

My God, I I had no idea so many beaners infested this board.

[Anonymous No.16211006]

>>16210752
cope and seethe harder

[Anonymous No.16211023]

>>16210865
Yeah, unfortunately I grew up in California and have come to despise Hispanics, which has given me a foul taste for the language.

[Anonymous No.16211025]

>>16210986
Europeans are also indigenous (to Europe), so not sure what you mean. Spaniards sound the most indigenous given they're the original speakers and also most have a disgusting accent as well. Being European doesn't exempt them from sounding bad. Well-spoken people, regardless of dialect, are rare, of course, but the sweet spot of objectively better features lies among the Mexicans, Colombians and Peruvians like I said.

[Anonymous No.16211026]

>>16211006

[Anonymous No.16211034]

>>16211004
>>16211023
We will forever invade you and there's a not a thing in the world you can do about it, you little cucks.

[Anonymous No.16211037]

>>16211025
>Europeans are also indigenous (to Europe)
retarded sophism, i'm obviously referring to indigenous mexicans, mexican spanish took so much of its phonetics from nahuatl and other ugly language permanently making that dialect sound like some amerindian yapping
>>16211023
i'm pretty racist against mexicans but i don't feel the same enmity towards all hispanics, i partly hate mexicans just because there are so many of them in my country and they don't belong here and they should go back to chihuahua

[Anonymous No.16211044]

>>16211037
SEETHING

[Anonymous No.16211045]

>>16210995
With what?

[Anonymous No.16211052]

>>16210886
Honestly I hate them both. I hate Spanish because I grew up in California and the only people that exclusively spoke it were retarded, uneducated spics, and I hate French because Parisians are so unbelievably insufferable about it. I wasn't even visiting France. I had a fucking layover in the Paris airport on my way back to America from Italy, was buying a couple things from the convenience store, and the fucking asshole behind the counter asked in flawless English if I knew French. We didn't even need to communicate. The machine said how much I owed. Yet the motherfucker selling bottled water in an airport felt the need to get offended over me not speaking French. And the best part was that he was a fucking nigger.

[Anonymous No.16211057]

>>16210989
It is indisputable fact you lose a lot of subtlety in translations. If you disagree, then you're a brainlet and should kys.

[Anonymous No.16211073]

>>16211044
yeah because beaners are ugly and gross and you're all addicted to weed, fat skinny goblins, thanks for picking the strawberries tho juan

[Anonymous No.16211083]

>>16211037
Honestly what did me in as a racist was living in Northern Virginia for two years and interacting with a variety of South and Central Americans, and especially El Salvadoran refugees. It just made me absolutely hate the entirety of them.

[Anonymous No.16211087]

>>16211057
>If you disagree, then you're a brainlet and should kys.
Lol, you sound very secure in your position.
Fact is, translating an idea between languages, is no different from first rendering that idea into one language.
Every language has its own subtlety.
I'm trilingual, so I know this; you probably only speak English, so it's all Greek to you.

[Anonymous No.16211094]

>>16211083
as an aesthete i simply can't appreciate that race of brown midget mutts, they're all so grotesquely ugly and hard to look at

admittedly some south americans are better looking than central americans and mexicans, but man mexicans are truly fuckign repulsive people, they all look so smelly and greasy and dysgenic, spain should've wiped out the native population and just fucking started over

[Anonymous No.16211095]

>>16211037
>retarded sophism, i'm obviously referring to indigenous mexicans, mexican spanish took so much of its phonetics from nahuatl and other ugly language permanently making that dialect sound like some amerindian yapping
KEK only -tl and -tz are the sounds from nahuatl. Saying it took "most of its phonetics" is an absurd exaggeration. Typical burger, arguing not facts but with feelings and ignorance. And if you're salty about California, sorry, Mexicans will always be there. Cry more.

[Anonymous No.16211109]

>>16211087
Sometimes footnotes can help give context, but still, a lot of context can be missing. Translations are filled "false negatives". A lot of translations fail to capture or focus on the full subtlety of the symbolism, metaphors, and so forth of the original material. The best example is how Wang Wei's poetry can be translated into ~11 different meanings in English. He is just one difficult example.
The idea itself is not necessarily singular and simple in the case of literature. It can be kaleidoscopic in a manner that has multiple entangling themes running at once.

[Anonymous No.16211116]

>>16211109
False positives can be a problem too when the translator adds his own interpretation into the story, which may as well be false or contentious*.

[Anonymous No.16211118]

>>16211073
>>16211094
Your granddaughter will fuck a Mexican and she won't think of her aesthete grandpa when riding that spicy Mexican cock. Deal with it. You will be a minority in your own country.

[Anonymous No.16211120]

>>16211095
>Typical burger, arguing not facts but with feelings and ignorance. And if you're salty about California, sorry, Mexicans will always be there. Cry more.

[Anonymous No.16211121]

>>16211109
>>16211116
>>16211087
In short, the translator can only approximate what he thinks the original author's intent was, which is no easy feat and potentially full of problems.

[Anonymous No.16211125]

>>16211118
>Your granddaughter will fuck a Mexican
shut up schizo

[Anonymous No.16211136]

>>16211120
>THEM PESKY MEXICANS TAKING MY DURN JOB!

[Anonymous No.16211148]

>>16211125
>shut up schizo

[Anonymous No.16211150]

>>16211136
that guy is half mexican

[Anonymous No.16211153]

>>16211136
>>16211148
i also hate ugly white ppl if you makes you feel better, but in general white ppl are better looking than beaners

[Anonymous No.16211169]

>>16210379
>>16210386

[Anonymous No.16211174]

>>16211153
>i
>ppl
Mate, you're a n*gger. Sop larping. Real whites don't write like this unless they're twitter cunts or wiggers.

[Anonymous No.16211181]

>>16211174
>Mate, you're a n*gger.

[Anonymous No.16211198]

>>16211181
kek

[Anonymous No.16211199]

>>16211198
>kek

[Anonymous No.16211203]

>>16211199

[Anonymous No.16211204]

>>16211198
>>16211199
You both need to unite and deal with the Jewish menace. I guarantee you that once Jews are gone, 80% of these problems will naturally fix themselves in a short amount of time.

[Anonymous No.16211207]

>>16210295
Reading foreign literature at all.

[Anonymous No.16211208]

>>16211203

[Anonymous No.16211212]

>>16211204
QUIET, GOY.

[Anonymous No.16211221]

>>16211120
>>16211125
>>16211181
>>16211208