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/lit/ - Literature


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16177810 No.16177810 [Reply] [Original]

>Thiel begins with the contrarian premise that we live in an age of technological stagnation, even if we’re too distracted by shiny mobile devices to notice. Information technology has improved rapidly, but there is no reason why progress should be limited to computers or Silicon Valley. Progress can be achieved in any industry or area of business.

>> No.16177864

such as

>> No.16177932

>>16177864

Biotech

>> No.16177948
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16177948

>>16177864

Commercial air travel has remained unchanged since the 60s. It's crazy when you think about it.

>> No.16178011

>>16177932
How will biotech improve things?
It literally just crashed the world

>> No.16178081

>>16178011

>implying that's a bad thing

>> No.16178092

>>16177948
seems like skyscraper tech has also slowed down

>> No.16178117

>>16178081
Obviously, but would suggest it's not progress.

>> No.16178163

>>16177948
same with internet speeds across almost 95% of america. it's an infrastructure and start-up cost issue.

>> No.16178171

>startups
just be black or a woman unironically or pitch your idea to a black or a woman and convince them to front for you

>> No.16178173

>>16177810
Jesus christ just stop spamming these threads anon.

If you want business advice just take a normal book by an normal boring expert ?
Why is the premise for any book you post that he is a Magacell and part of the american culture war?

>> No.16179399

>Had Ford and his associates (in 1903) decided at any point to shift from gasoline to steam power, the machine shop could have accommodated itself to the change in a few hours.'If they now try to change even one screw, it takes that many months.

It's kind of baffling that Thiel doesn't understand that "the more sophisticated the technology, the greater in general will be the foregoing requirements." This is why subways are prohibitively expensive today.

>> No.16180749

anti-boomer canard from a racist homosexual

>> No.16180853

>>16177810
Loved this book, read it in a day. I would seriously recommend it to anyone even tangentially interested in tech or business. Thiel is a very qualitative, contrarian thinker, and the writing is simple and straightforward.

Anyone have any recommendations for similar books, or books you think I would enjoy if I enjoyed this?

>> No.16181037

>>16177948
Modern planes are safer, more fuel efficient, more comfortable (if you have the money) and practically fly themselves. Just because the overall fuselage shape is largely unchanged and they aren't faster doesn't mean that they've stagnated.

>> No.16181063

>>16177864
Literature

>> No.16181080

>>16177948
they have changed. they peek at everyone's genitals now before they hop on the airplane

>> No.16181416

>>16177810
>we live in an age of technological stagnation
>but technology will be our saving grace

brainlet tier book

>> No.16181771

>>16181416
>technology is stagnating
>we need to advance technology
you FUCKING spastic

>> No.16182092

>>16177810
The book implies Mark Zuckerberg's Facebook is an example of going from 0 to 1
>what is MySpace
All the other positives example this book has of technological progress have been overall detriments to society.

>> No.16182098

>>16181037
>more comfortable
no

>> No.16182131
File: 1.72 MB, 1600x900, bioshock-bioshock-33811889-1600-900.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16182131

>>16177810
That's how you end up in Rapture. Thiel, Land, Moldbug and Musk should build their underwater city already.

>> No.16182141

>>16177810
Peter Thiel reminds me of myself. He is definitely one of the smartest men currently alive.

>> No.16182156

>>16178163
>same with internet speeds across almost 95% of america. it's an infrastructure and start-up cost issue.

95% of America lives in the middle of nowhere where it's financially impossible to implement cutting edge tech.

The real question is, why isn't the Internet better in America's biggest and wealthiest cities?

>> No.16182164

>>16180749

>anti-boomer racist homosexual

I'm OK with this

>> No.16182180
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16182180

>>16181037

Things are getting better all the time.

>> No.16182196

>technological stagnation
Lmao. How fucking far have we come in 100 years?
Give other industries some time to play catch up. Applying information technology outside of silicone valley takes time and money as well as human innovation.
In addition there is potential for enormous social liability, as increased technology implies the need for less low skilled labor, which means we’d need to establish a system to create highly skilled labor in order keep people busy. And while that could be put in place over time, the transition period would be difficult enough to cause mass social unrest.
Does he discuss this at all in the book?

>> No.16182218

>>16181771
no we don't need to advance technology. we need to deal with the big problems technology has caused (e.g. pollution, unemployment, centralization, mass migration, etc) and the answer is certainly not more or better technology.

boomers like thiel are eternal optimists when it comes to tech. the truth is some societal problems could be solved by a rejection of certain technologies that result in mass unemployment, pollution, and urbanization.

>> No.16182247

>>16182218
sick of people misusing boomer, thiel is gen x

>> No.16182251
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16182251

>>16182218
>pollution
more efficient technology
>unemployment
deport/exterminate whoever can't trace their family in the nation for at least 3 generations
>centralization
?
>mass migration
pic related

>> No.16182254

>>16182196
>Lmao. How fucking far have we come in 100 years?
He's not talking about the last 100 years, more like last 50.

>> No.16182263
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16182263

>>16182251
Back to your containment board edgy tard

>> No.16182271

>>16182218
>pollution, unemployment, centralization, mass migration
All caused by government policy

>> No.16182272

>>16182254
>He's not talking about the last 100 years, more like last 50.
lmao fucking how far have we come in 50 years?

>> No.16182293

>>16182251
>more efficient technology
coca cola is super efficient at producing millions of plastic bottles. think a bit harder, more efficient technology is not always better.

>deport/exterminate whoever can't trace their family in the nation for at least 3 generations

this wont solve unemployment in other countries. to continue with the coca cola example, I think PEI was the last place in north america to have glass bottles. They had them up til 2008 to protect jobs in the province at a local bottling plant.

>centralization
by this i meant movement into urban centres. rural life has been hollowed out and taken over by big agriculture that is so inefficient it must subsist off government handouts

>mass migration
this is an extension of the unemployment/centralization issue.

>>16182271
I agree. government policy should actively protect jobs, reduce pollution, migration etc. by rejecting certain technologies. we can't allow tech to run our lives but the other way around

>> No.16182297

>>16182272
Thiel is talking about technological stagnation outside of the computer space. When you leave that out and look at the last 50 years, how much progress has really been made in other engineering disciplines?

>> No.16182313

>>16182293
>I agree. government policy should actively
Unfortunately all governments are incompetent and trusting them to do anything right is folly

>> No.16182341
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16182341

>>16182293
>other countries
>giving the slightest shit about muh other countries
anon, I...

>> No.16182403

>>16182251
>more efficient technology
Jevon's paradox

>> No.16182476

>>16182297
I work in construction. I see new technology implemented every year or so at the ground level. I can't speak outside of my experience, but it seems to me that this is a braindead take. You can't see what's going on at the ground level behind the scenes, all you see are the finished products. Just because the computer space is the only tangible space for you does not mean it's not happening in other areas.
I could talk about self-leveling power trowels, saw blades that stop when they "feel" flesh, and other smart technology I've seen in action. But again, it's not tangible for the average person. All you see is a concrete floor or a door. Never mind the door was manufactured in such a way that it takes 2 hours for a raging fire to burn through. Fire stopping technology has come an insane way. This stuff is standard in most office buildings in my area. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKDBksPr7bA
>how much progress has really been made in other engineering disciplines?
In my experience? a shit load. But as I said, my experience is limited to the construction industry.

>> No.16182494

>>16182092
I think Facebook was 0 to 1 in a sense that it was bottom up in its execution, with early users being college students and spreading itself through word of mouth.

>> No.16182498

>>16182403
just because someone tacked a gay name onto it, doesn't make it true

>> No.16182569

>>16177810
Okay, I will revolutionize Arts and Music soon. Just wait.

>> No.16182588

>>16182180
Trade show huckster prototypes /= real world implementation.

>> No.16183471

Is Andrew Yang's book any good?

>> No.16183674
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16183674

>>16183471

I doubt it. The man is a fool.

>> No.16183713

>>16183471
which one? "Smart people should build things"? If you think it's a self-help pep talk for wannabe entrepreneurs, you're gonna be disappointed. When he says "smart people" what he means is hard working bugmen from elite schools and when he says "build things" he means they should use their connections and privilege to start a fresh crop of megacorporations instead of working on wall street, it's clearly written by someone with a privileged life who was always surrounded by other privileged people which is why his solution to all of societies ills is just "throw money at poor people out of helicopters"

>> No.16183926

>>16182476
no one gives a fuck about incremental improvements on commonly used tools bud

>> No.16183957

>>16183926
you realize a fucking electric car company currently has a 380 billion dollar market cap? maybe as a zoomer electric cars seem normal, but i assure you as little as 15 years ago it was an environmentalist pipe dream

>> No.16183961

>>16183926
This attitude is addressed by >>16183713

>> No.16184058

>>16183957
do you honestly think a blade saw that prevents drunk retards from chopping their thumbs off is the same thing as tesla? lmfao

>> No.16184081

>>16183926
You most definitely do, you just don't know it because your autistic perspective is minuscule

>> No.16184310

>>16177810
>>16180853
What were the most interesting/novel concepts that make this book worth reading?

>> No.16184325

>>16182156
>95% of Americans live in the middle of nowhere
What? Around 60% live in cities

>> No.16184645

>>16183926
Correct, which is why he said exactly that.

>>16184058
No, one is an actual game changer, the other is a tax evasion scheme for the global auto cartel.

>>16184310
At one point he lists 10(?) questions to ask yourself if starting a new business. They're just variations of
>What can you do differently?
from various angles.

>> No.16184658

>>16177810
Peter fucking Thiel is the kind of evil bug that tries to cloak himself in the trappings of progressivism and optimism to disguise the fact that the brilliant future he's envisioning and vaguely describing is a Peter Thieltopia where he's a nigh-omniscient technocratic god herding the rest of humanity as his personal cattle.

>> No.16184669

>>16184658
>the trappings of progressivism
he literally endorsed trump in 2016 what the fuck are you talking about

>> No.16184687 [DELETED] 

>with blake masters

holy shit a graduate of stanford law needed a ghost writer? ooof

>> No.16184705

>>16184669
Less progressivism in the tranny sense and more the quite literal "humanity ascending the heights to a great tomorrow!" sense. Progessivism was a bad word to choose. Think Steven Pinkerist myopic optimism for a bigger brighter future where vagueries like "data" are going to get us there.

>> No.16184875

>>16184645
Thank you for your answer.

>> No.16184898

>>16184658
Dude, Thiel literally speaks to people like Mencius Moldbug, Eric Weinstein, and Sam Harris. And despite being a closeted homosexual, he's a Trump supporter and an ardent civic nationalist, or Western nationalist at least (I wish he were racially nationalist, but hey it's better than nothing).

He does not cloak himself as a progressive. He hates progressives. He's gone on record of being anti social justice, anti immigration, and anti progressive.

>> No.16184922

>>16184658
Look at this retard talking about shit he doesn't know

>> No.16185075
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16185075

>>16177810
>but there is no reason why progress should be limited to computers or Silicon Valley. Progress can be achieved in any industry or area of business.
It's called physics

>> No.16185156

>>16178171
this one

>> No.16185635

>>16184898
>and an ardent civic nationalist, or Western nationalist at least (I wish he were racially nationalist, but hey it's better than nothing).

Doesn't he not hire Asians because he thinks they don't innovate? He probably doesn't like Muslims because he's gay.

>> No.16186317

>>16184705
I'd use the word "futurism". Especially because Thiel is big into building surveillance systems to enable a particularly vile form of casual police state. He's involved in Ring and other kinds of doorbell cameras specifically because he wants omnipresent surveillance. Don't get me started on Palantir.

>> No.16186326

>>16184658
Thank god no amount of bad-faith think-piecing on why cryptofascist ethnostates are actually the only place with real liberty will make you immune to intermediate caliber rounds in the chest

>> No.16186432

From all the CIAniggers, Thiel is the most scary.

>> No.16186456
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16186456

>>16184669

>> No.16186471

>>16182092
Facebooks gathering and selling of user data is absolutely a 0 to 1.

>> No.16186521

If there were anyone whose digital effigy I would assassinate in Minecraft, in order to preserve the fate of the Minecraft world, it would be Thiel. Genuine monster.

>> No.16186563

>>16186521
Thiel is a monster, the problem is how many like him are around and this is what makes me scared. Zuckerberg and Bezos are just as bad.

>> No.16186584
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16186584

>>16180853
Thiel is also influenced by Moldbug.

>> No.16186976
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16186976

>Adam Curtis was right again

>> No.16186999

>>16186976
>This is a film blah blah blah management and control blah blah blah interconnected systems blah blah blah this was a fantasy blah blah blah fall of the Soviet Union

>> No.16187021

>>16186999
I'd be surprised if an Adam Curtis drinking game doesn't exist out there somewhere with a shot taken every time he says "But this was a fantasy"

>> No.16187135

>>16183957
Electric cars are not really a new idea or some kind of paradigm shift. Technology has stagnated in the same way that culture has and we just seem to be recycling old forms and refining things that already exist, it's actually interesting that people don't seem to have noticed this.

I blame globalization and the end of the cold war, true innovation comes out of existential struggle and pretty much all the genuinely new technologies of the last 100 years came out of military research: computers, miniaturization, satellites, the internet, digital cameras, AI etc. Leaving innovation to a free market just gets you a new iPhone every year.

>> No.16187148

Parkinson's medication is pretty much the same as it was in the 70s. Hardly any progress outside changing the delivery of the old drug and expensive gimmicks like deep brain stimulation. What causes the disease still isn't known.
Alzheimer's and other neurological diseases have similar stories.

>> No.16187163
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16187163

>>16180853
>>16186584

>> No.16187852

>>16182218
All of these are not technological problems, but a simple fact that there are too much humans. Imagine pollution if you replace cars by horses in new york.

>> No.16187904
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16187904

Consciousness is a pseudo-objective democratic process. I am aware of my consciousness and it can detect and judge if other beings are conscious. If I and the other being can communicate to each other that we possess an idea of consciousness, we are conscious. Thus the web of social beings decides what is conscious and what isn't, which is why it used to be ambiguous whether niggers are conscious and why we tend to judge people outside of our group as NPCs. Most people aren't spiritual enough to communicate with the aether otherwise panpsychism would be an undeniable truth, just like "humans are conscious".

>> No.16187913

>>16179399
don't you see that this is a form of decline?
what you are seeing is bad design. hyper specialization, design by committee, and bureaucracy mean our designs our more complex and slow moving.
Nobody understands the whole anymore leaving us with 1970s technology forever.

one of the powerful things about technology of the past is it was also extremely well designed. Simplicity and focused goals take effort and skill.

This is also true in computer technology itself. Powerful designs like Unix are slowly replaced with slower and more complex software which barely manages to do the same thing. (See GPU accelerated text terminals.)

>> No.16187919

Isn't that guy the vampire?

>> No.16187933

>>16182476
just because things are new doesn't mean they are better. there is constant churn in every industry. It just doesn't seem to be making life:
- better
- safer
- cheaper
without sacrificing one of the others.

the Progress/tech narrative can be largely seen as a marketing campaign to get people to buy new shit, and seeing others who don't as "close minded" or not "progressive".

>> No.16187942

>>16184658
Stop reading journalists. they don't know what they are talking about and make you look stupid.

>> No.16187959
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16187959

do you guys reckon home appliances like washing machines have made people lazier?

>> No.16187963

>>16182098
>>(if you have the money)

>> No.16187968

I'm sorry but if people are willing to sit on tiny ass aeroplane seats for a cheaper flight, what's the fucking problem?

I can't afford to spend thousands on a holiday and would gladly stand if I got to go abroad. The only people who complain about this are resentful leftists who hate that others are making money.

>> No.16187996

>>16187968
next year the will charge you the same amount of money you did previously for worse service. it's all about manipulating public and legal expectations.

you could see someone similarly arguing
"why can't I pay less not to have a bathroom on a flight, Ill just pee before,"

>> No.16188094

>>16180749
Two out of three ain't bad.
https://youtu.be/q8JA9Qs2Mho

>> No.16188192
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16188192

>>16187135
>true innovation comes out of existential struggle
Absolute horseshit. The aeroplane, the telephone, the camera, the steam engine, the printing press, the locomotive were all civil inventions. Wars don't create innovation, they incentivise militaries to fund interesting technologies (see the jet engine and GPS predecessors).

>> No.16188270

>>16187996
Yes, and? It's a transaction between consenting adults. Only the socialist is arrogant enough to think they know what's best for everyone.

>> No.16188273
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16188273

>>16187021
pic related

>>16187996
>next year the will charge you the same amount of money you did previously for worse service. it's all about manipulating public and legal expectations.
On major lines (outside of any bushpilot effectively) there is proper competition among the compnies, so no. Besides for short flights with less than an hour it would be alright.

>> No.16188279

>>16188192
Correct. Most inventions were actually made years before their actual adoption, or years after their actual demand.

For example, the tin open was invented 30 years after the tin. And forms of printing were invented centuries before Guttenberg (but nobody could read).

Innovation is usually just tinkering, without any necessity involved.

>> No.16188281

>>16188273
>that pic
fucking triggered me. i can't believe i used to watch this garbage and think it was deep

>> No.16188328

>>16186317
to me it seems like the Ring is a good technology

>> No.16188332

>>16187148
health is the most difficult realms of technology especially because it's difficult to make any meaningful progress if you act ethically

>> No.16188415

>>16187913
tech advance implies increase in complexity retard

>> No.16188422

>>16188281
There is also a great video parody. The comments are disabled now but there was nothing special in them in case you wonder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bX3F7uTrg
He has his sophisticated style that makes him appear to be allknowing and very wise about everything he publishes. Curtis doesn't give you all the information, access to the interviews. And of course he has his own spin, he isn't neutral nor does he take in all information available, he offers his own theory of why things happened. No self-critique necessary since the way he makes his documentaries makes everything seem like a huge clockwork - well fitting and causal. His rhetoric is incredible. All the British I in met who went to their UK elite colleges where masters of conversation, especialy the older ones. They weren't really honest... yes wasn't yes and no wasn't no but that's another topic.

Either way, I wouldn't dismiss Adam Curtis just because of his tendentious style and I do think that his documentaries are pretty 'deep' and not garbage at all. There are sadly just a few documentaries that try to explain the backgrounds of what is happening in society. Usually these documentaries are for example about a corruption scandal but they don't try to explain the greater works behind the curtains. The Mayfair set is very interesting in that hindsight - and explains a lot in that hindsight. I don't know whether everything he writes is as causal has he makes it to be, since depending on the documentary a lot of that information is difficult to find. For example the way he explains the gulf crisis, Kashoggis role and how it has been solved is different from what I can read on Wikipedia or how society talks about it in general. There are other cases.
He doesn't try to give one evil bad guy as the explanation, he doesn't try to paint just one party black, he is trying to explain the process - which may he have harsh consequences. He is very sharp and doesn't stop until he finds the answers that explain his questions. It may be that these answers aren't as good as he makes them to be in his documentary.
Adam Curtis' documentaries are a great motivation and inspiration for me to think outside the box to understand what is happening and why.
One of the documentaries that is easier to prove and follow is the Century of the Self, if you haven't seen it and distrust Curtis, go for it.
A few weeks ago I read on 4chan, I think here, that one of the founders of Netflix is nephew of Edward Bernays. I looked it up, Marc Randolph is his great nephew. What a family.

>> No.16188456

>>16182293
>coca cola is super efficient at producing millions of plastic bottles. think a bit harder, more efficient technology is not always better.

They could also recycle all those bottles if it weren't for the people in China, India, and Thailand all throwing them straight into the ocean.

>> No.16188464

>>16188456
which takes a bunch of fuel to transport, then power machines to recycle them, when in contrast you could just have kegs of the stuff and everyone brought their own refillable containers

>> No.16188466

>>16188415
this is retarded. he's not talking about incremental improvements in the ox driven plow. the argument is that there is almost no tangible advancement in technology in recent times outside the world of computing power. there was once a period of time where there was an explosion of innovation. no one seems interested in recreating the environment that fostered this.

>> No.16188482

>>16188422
well I wasn't expecting any effort posts on 4chan, hence the flippant comment. i appreciate that curtis is at least trying to broadcast certain messages about the government and institutions, and i understand that editorial choices have to be made to get on the bbc. either way, if it helps people wake up a bit, good. but as somebody who has done a fair bit of reading on the topics he covers, i find him kinda irritating.

>> No.16188502

>>16188482
>but as somebody who has done a fair bit of reading on the topics he covers, i find him kinda irritating.
What do you see different among the topics you have made your own research? Genuinly curious.

>> No.16188508

wtf does palantir actually do
I looked at the website and it talks about "managing data" in a very abstract way

>> No.16188594

>>16188502
it's not that i agree or disagree, it's that his movies lack nuance - they sacrifice accuracy and veracity to tell a story, which ends up being pure reductive entertainment. once i did my own research i realised how much curtis distorts the facts. combine that with his style, his movies resemble shit like Zeitgeist. again, i understand the bbc has to cater to the general public, but for me these kind of documentaries give you the wrong worldview.

>> No.16188597

>>16188508
it's just analytics. you hand over your data, they tell you how to use to make more money.

>> No.16188599

So the call of duty makers binged all these corny adam curtis "video essays"

>> No.16188609

>>16178171
This is what make me most pessimistic about technological progress. The rent-seeking of using identity to drive funding and promotions.

The whole premise of "diverse teams make better decisions" is literally take from a marketing pamphlet from McKinsey, and has somehow evolved into unquestionable science.

>> No.16189208

>>16188609
>diverse teams
>everyone is from an ivy

wow diverse

>> No.16189230

>>16177810

who is blake masters

>> No.16189301

>>16186326
Holy fucking based

>> No.16189332

>>16188281
His videos are literally just supercuts of historical archive material with some wikipedia-deep research you brainlet. If you can't draw your own conclusions then you're hopeless. If you think he's lying (I have), then check the claim.

>> No.16189452

>>16189332
the fuck are you talking about. i was 16 when i was watching his stuff i'm just saying i don't like them any more. get over it loser.

>> No.16190548

>>16182141
lol

>> No.16190675

>>16188415
No it doesn't. as described in the book technology is doing more with less.
we already know we can do more with more.

Do you really think this endless bureaucractic churn is what progress looks like?

>> No.16190698

>>16188270
Wrong. it's a contract between a single individual with no power and a massive corporation/ quasi-government institution.
it you don't sign the contract some other sucker will.

Have you every tried negotiating on a contract for basic employment or housing before? they just decide your too much trouble and move on.

>> No.16190708

>>16187996
>you could see someone similarly arguing
>"why can't I pay less not to have a bathroom on a flight, Ill just pee before,"

and that would be a decent argument. If I'm just catching a plane to DC, that's like an hour flight at the most, hell taking the train from queens to the bronx takes longer than that and you somehow manage to make it without pissing all over yourself

>> No.16190767

>>16190708
Ten frequent flier miles have been deposited into your account.

>> No.16190802

>>16188609
>Civil Rights Act basically requires companies to have represnetation of "marginalized" groups to avoid lawsuits, more representation makes you more likely to get good government contracts, subsidies, etc.
>Whoa, more diversity makes companies perform better!
Powerful...

>> No.16190986

>>16188597
It's specifically security-focused analytics, though. It started out as an exclusive contractor for the Pentagon and the CIA combing through all of the information they could glean out of Afghanistan and Iraq in 2004. The CIA's investment shell was one of the first investors. Their civilian contracts are for companies' internal security but a lot of them dumped it after executives realized they didn't really want nerds tapping their phones anymore, so they mostly get contracts now from feds and bigger-budget police departments. It's apparently used by them for Minority Report-style pre-crime shit.

>> No.16190997

haha palintir is finally filing for an ipo despite losing 500 million dollars last year, looks like thiel is trying to cash out and leave retards holding the bag, fair enough

>> No.16191025

>>16190802
peter thiel got sued for not hiring enough asians, he could have got away with it if his business wasn't entirely based on getting government bureaucracies locked into expensive contracts, but if you wanna suck the govt titty, better be diverse

>> No.16191034

>>16190986
>lot of them dumped it after executives realized

after the realized having cool charts and fancy motion graphics of shit your accountants already had in excel spreadsheets for decades adds no value

>> No.16191315

>>16191034
You don't understand what they do at all if you think accountants are looking at the same information.
They aren't vague consultants making the business more "efficient" by reducing logistics costs by 0.3%, they work for companies that have to worry about corporate espionage or sabotage to look for threats. The software will notify users of shit like "Mr. Christopher Pool in Mergers and Acquisitions has been clocking in an average of 15 minutes later than usual in the past two weeks, his emails have included the word 'frustrating' six times, and the guy he eats lunch with was recently reprimanded by HR for insufficient enthusiasm. How would you like to proceed?"

>> No.16191629

>>16188270
If you don't like it just make your own airline, freemarket lol