/wg/ - Writing General #7

[Anonymous No.16155740]

For talking about the craft.
Last one was excellent lads, keep it up.
Previous: >>16128875

[Anonymous No.16155758]

>>16155740
Write sincerely, anons!

[Anonymous No.16155769]

Just coomed in the shower and the combination of shallow breath and orthostatic hypotension really gave me a terrible headache. I really regret doing it now but I'm never going to coom there again. I just realized that the only time I don't get headaches from this is if I'm sitting or laying down on something like a bed or a chair. Trying to quit this but progress is slow especially when I have stupid ideas like this.

[Anonymous No.16155772]

I should have used Strong Bad at the computer for the OP image, im sorry for letting everyone down

[Anonymous No.16155823]

>>16155758

[Anonymous No.16155929]

>>16155740
Where's my prompt!?

[Anonymous No.16155934]

>>16155758
I write ironically.

[Anonymous No.16156132]

>>16155758
I want to hate-fuck meg. Smile at the inane garbage spewing from her mouth and cut her off with a hand to the throat. Drive her to the wall and spit in her mouth. Pull up her skirt and push her panties to the side. Thumb her clit and breathe in her ear. Throw her to the ground when the juice starts pouring. Allow her an illusion of escape. 10 seconds. Then I jump her from behind. Drive her face into the floor. Make use of that cunt. Cum deep inside. Whisper baby names in her ear. Open the door and throw her out. Doesn’t matter where she goes, she knows she’ll always be mine.

[Anonymous No.16156172]

>>16151016
Don't feel like it's fair to compare the two

[Anonymous No.16156179]

>>16155740
I have nothing to share outside pic related

[Anonymous No.16156184]

Good prose is hard man. I have my story completely set and scripted, so I have fully room to just concentrate on my prose and make it the best it can be. I'm having brushes of writing professional level prose (pre-major line-editing), but hitting good prose paragraph-to-paragraph is daunting.

I can share some of what I've written if there's interest, but I get there's a crit thread for that which I've been using.

[Anonymous No.16156199]

>>16156184
Share it here. Don't tease faggot

[Anonymous No.16156251]

>>16156199

This is pre-line edit.

https://pastebin.com/BibXRTPu

[Anonymous No.16156267]

>>16155740
Damn, I posted my writing on another thread like this today and it seems to have vanished. Oh well I will try again. It is a commentary on struggle, lust, moral subjectivity, and religious symbolism, my influences being Evola, Wilde, and possibly Homer, though it is nothing close to the works of them. It is not political however, and is perhaps a bit lewd towards the end (nothing coomer tier just a warning). I wrote it a few weeks ago, though I feel stuck on it despite completing it, I am too embarrassed to share it in public so I share it here.
https://pastebin.com/p2Rp1Vrk

[Anonymous No.16156307]

>>16156251
>https://pastebin.com/BibXRTPu
I like it,the style is rather visual, swirly in the loosest sense of the term. You paint a stylized world yet with no paint, and that is good. However perhaps a bit more connection between the last paragraph and the first two?

[Anonymous No.16156318]

>>16156307

The first part is a prologue type thing. The second part is the actual first chapter. And thanks, I appreciate you saying that.

[Anonymous No.16156414]

>>16156251
Impression:

You're writing a self-obsessed character.

Prose is fine. If every chapter read like this throughout I'd personally stop reading, unless the character was Bateman-tier good or it tapers off quickly.

Good work, senpai. Post again after line edit (even, even, even).

[Anonymous No.16156454]

this story is sucking the life out of me. I don't want to hate it but I've been writing it for two years, i's only 2/3 of the way done and I can't remember the last time I was actually excited about it

[Anonymous No.16156669]

>>16156454
Delete it. Start over.

[Anonymous No.16156713]

>>16155740
Sweet, it's finally back.

[Anonymous No.16156737]

>>16156669
Finishing things is a skill in itself. Advice like this will set you back. Of course, if your goal is to have fun writing moreso than to improve, then go for it.

[Anonymous No.16156742]

>>16156267
>https://pastebin.com/p2Rp1Vrk
I tried to get through it but it's just so wordy that I struggled to make progress. It's a chore to read.

Your grammar is all over the place; even a cursory run through Grammarly would significantly improve the readability.

You love x but y constructions(at least the first bit that I read). The problem is that it seems you could just excise one half of the sentence containing it in most of the situations.

"He woke up, but the sun was not blasting in alarm, for it was quiet and creeping."

What do you mean by this? You've revealed the setting as early 20th century, so what exactly would the sun blasting in alarm indicate? Why does that need to contrast to the sun's quiet creeping in the first place?

I can take a stab at understanding what you intend to say; he usually wakes up to a full sun burning brightly, but today he's up early and in the dawn/predawn the sun is thus milder.

But why those words, that construction? I don't get it. Your two images, a sun 'blasting in alarm' and a sun that is 'quiet and creeping' don't even seem to effectively contrast each other.

You use sound terms in that sentence(I'm assuming 'blasting in alarm' is a sound term), but you don't extend it, so it becomes pointless ornamentation. Would you lose anything simplifying it to some formulation of 'he woke up early?' Because that's really all that overwrought sentence is poorly indicating.

My advice:
Edit your work before posting it for review. Basic grammatical mistakes like .", are all over your work, and impede readability. Read your stuff out loud as a sanity check

Be more deliberate with your word choices. You are clearly aspiring to something significant with what you are writing, but nothing that I read feels deliberate, and thoughtful. It feels like you wrote off the top of your head. You can not write something thoughtful without actually be thoughtful about the writing.

"Even more so it would be boring. He
scarcely ever awoke at this hour, to apply it on a hollow and unfruitful monologue would be an
act of unthankfullness."

Here's another thing that I noticed. Your use of words is just off sometimes. It's as if you felt unsatisfied with the obvious choice, but picked something else, which can be parsed but is awkward and doesn't fit. Would you really apply a morning to an unfruitful and hollow monologue? Waste, expend, use up, while away, pass, spend, etc. There are so many options you could use instead.

[Anonymous No.16156744]

>>16155740
TROGDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR

[Anonymous No.16156785]

Since we're sharing shorts now. Here's one I cooked up on a coke bender last year. Unedited. https://pastebin.com/EHPPtExx

[Anonymous No.16156837]

Anyone have any idea when the Lit Quarterly's coming out?

[Anonymous No.16156846]

>>16156737
>>16156669

I still care about it, and it's supposed to be the most "me" story I'll ever write. It just sucks that it no longer excites me

[Anonymous No.16156861]

>>16156846
That's why you start over

[Anonymous No.16156871]

>>16156837
Four times a year.

[Anonymous No.16156981]

Do you guys think that knowing how the story in general will go demotivates someone from finishing it?
Like, it drains all curiosity from writing?

[Anonymous No.16156994]

>>16156981
What the fuck kind of question is that? I don't know who you are. I dont know how you feel.

[Anonymous No.16157003]

>>16156994
Would knowing how your story will go demotivate you from completing it?
Gee.

[Anonymous No.16157013]

>>16157003
Not in the slightest. Never had it happen myself though, I just make shit up as I go along

[Anonymous No.16157053]

>>16156251
Now this is the very definition of purple prose. Your choice of imagery often crosses the line to absurdity for me, which doesn't seem to be the intention.

[Anonymous No.16157056]

How to show not tell?

[Anonymous No.16157067]

>>16156267
I'm simply baffled how common a phenomenon it is to open story with a character waking up, followed by a detailed description of the room around them. It's everywhere, and it's always almost the same kind of a room, in the same style. And I put down the story immediately every time I see that, sorry.

[Anonymous No.16157071]

>>16157056
Show, don't tell.

[Anonymous No.16157092]

>>16157056
Read Borges and realize that tell can be done well and that show not tell is reddit-tier advice.

[Anonymous No.16157094]

>>16156454
>I've been writing it for two years, i's only 2/3 of the way done
I have a little side project I started working on 3 years ago or so, and it went through full transformation and rewrite twice, and is still only 2/3 finished. But somehow I'm still excited about it. When things begin to seem stale, it's time to think outside the box. Don't be afraid to make heavy changes if you find it'll be an improvement.

[Anonymous No.16157103]

>>16157056
When you describe a scene, what is the perspective you are coming from?

[Anonymous No.16157129]

>>16157103
3rd person narrator focused on one character

[Anonymous No.16157156]

>>16156981
As a reader, absolutely not. Just the opposite, knowing that it's not shit and will have some stupid twist for the sake of it makes me more motivated to read/watch it.

As a writer … yeah, kinda. I love the discovery phase. To balance it out, I have multiple endings in mind of which either could work and just figure in the process where the character goes.

[Anonymous No.16157181]

>>16156132
Based?

[Anonymous No.16157188]

>>16157056
"It was a dark and stormy night." vs "Rain slapped me in the face as I ran through the dark park and the bottle of mace slipped from my fingers."

[Anonymous No.16157196]

>>16156132
wtf

[Anonymous No.16157227]

>>16157056
>I'm an anti-semite
vs.
>I left a strip of bacon by the entrance of the synagogue

[Anonymous No.16157252]

>>16157227
Based.

[Anonymous No.16157253]

>>16157067
I'm sorry that is off putting and will take note of it, it is a trope which I have been afflicted off too many times. However the story takes place in the course of a day so it was only appropriate it began then, and the scene is a stage for a important monologue. Thank you for the feedback,

[Anonymous No.16157281]

>>16157067
I wonder if it comes from people not reading enough or reading too much old shit to think it's still okay.

[Anonymous No.16157343]

>>16157253
I guess that's the reason why it's so common. It seems intuitive to enter the story where the character enters consciousness. But it's an abominable way. Before you learn the protagonist's name, you know what kind of handles his night drawer has. His furniture matters more than his life!

[Anonymous No.16157570]

>>16156742
this kind of critique is poop and condescending, and controlling. the difference between me and you is i will let the anon work on his story but i can easily say what nought to be when it is not for me to judge or result to insults unlike i do right now. its unfortunate across this timeline aspirers will land on critics like you who it is only purpose for tearing down which you do not have the awareness much like i am aware i am tearing down this sort of critique. very uninspiring

[Anonymous No.16157573]

>3,100 words in a 9 hour timespan
>sitting at 4.6k total and still not at a stopping point for the chapter
tired and head empty lads.

[Anonymous No.16157586]

>>16157343
I did that once for a pony fanfic I never finished to set a mood that would later be contrasted with the first location change in the story.
I didn't do it that way just because it was intuitive but because I saw it as an opportunity to show the kind of character my MC was, though even then I thought I could've picked a better scene for that.

[Anonymous No.16157609]

It's amazing how much my work seems to proceed purely as a matter of faith. This big work, which I have enjoyed writing very much, and which has fulfilled me, and which is only the beginning of so much I plan to write. I'm absolutely a pantser, someone who lets a story come to him. So, when I need to move forward, I pause, and I wait, and I pray. I actually pray for God's intervention in what I am writing. And, inevitably, it comes. It always comes. I always figure it out, in the end. Like the bright, clear dawning of the sunshine, I always find out, in the end, what I need. My writing process on this big work has been very mystical, very strange, and I am not sure I have been so mystical on past writings. But I am here, and it has paid off.

[Anonymous No.16157631]

>>16157609
what are you writing?

[Anonymous No.16157671]

>>16155740
damn I havent seen my bro strong bad in ages

[Anonymous No.16157679]

>>16156132

[Anonymous No.16157692]

I’m interested in working on a fantasy genre draft. What’s your favorite and/or least favorite tropes in the fantasy genre? Or maybe just things that are the most underutilized?

[Anonymous No.16157694]

>>16157570
you deserve a soijack, but I'm not going to ruin one of the few good threads on /lit/ with one, so just imagine it.

[Anonymous No.16157706]

>>16155929
Write with a girl's long hair as the focus, without going down the lazy haircut->new identity route

[Anonymous No.16157795]

>>16157692
Least favorite:
>evil overlord and his generic orc-clone army of evuuul minions
>big magical mcguffin the world depends on
>chosen one heroes
>dickfests
>races of clones defined by a few traits who all act very similar
>monarchy wank
>autistic magical systems
Think I'm just not a big fan of the genre.

[Anonymous No.16157857]

>>16157692
>>16157795
>evil overlord and his generic orc-clone army of evuuul minions
Admitted, I don't read a lot of fantasy, but I'd like to read a story, where this is played completely straight again, in the vein of Tolkien and such. Most of the time, it seems there's always some kind of lame "people were the real evil all along" and "orcs are people too!" twist involved. Fuck that. Just honest, developed war, an overpowering evil against which you can throw your full strength and more, bloodshed without remorse. That's what I want to read.

[Anonymous No.16157878]

>>16157857
I see the appeal of a terror inducing evil antagonist but a faceless horde of enemies sounds like something that'll run out of steam by the second battle against them. Even if one ups the ante like Night King in the series with a literal wave of zombies, the more time they get, the more boring it gets IMO.

[Anonymous No.16157950]

>>16157878
It all depends on the execution. Like any monster, the antagonists must be used sparingly and with real stakes involved. Battles can't be just "heroes ride forward and waves upon waves of not-orcs fall before them". There must be real goals to every fight, secondary objectives, strategies to reach there, unpredictable setbacks, adjustments, consequences, etc, like in any real war.

We all know fellow humans, yet conventional wars with human opponents are far from boring. We've seen zombies done to death, yet zombie apocalypse never stops being exhilarating. We know a lot less about the forces of the evil overlord, they're a mystery, so if you manage to make them seem boring, something has gone terribly wrong.

Mind you, it can't all be just war. The enemy is ultimately a mirror for the protagonists to discover themselves, motivating and shaping their development and relationships. I believe there would be one field to one-up Tolkien.

[Anonymous No.16158255]

CRAFT?
LMAO
Goddamn you people are embarrassing

[Anonymous No.16158328]

>>16158255
Pot please.

[Anonymous No.16158711]

CRAFT

[Anonymous No.16158751]

>>16155740

Stong Bahd. Goooood!

[Anon the Anon No.16159576]

I feel a bit depressed about this, so I thought I might share what I got right now.

I always loved to read. I was, I am and will always be a bookworm. I remember writing a couple of things by hand when I was like 12 or 13, but after that I didn't write much for the next 8 years. Just a few drafts and ideas that went to nothing, or the ocasional fic once a year.

But everything changed when I got my first mechanical keyboard a month ago. I felt like I was give some kind of tool, to use it well. And since I got it, my productivity now has already dwarfed what it was before, I have written like 5 fics, the first one being 1.2k words and the larger one 3.1k. I'm proud of myself. But I'm also not.

Why do you say that about yourself, Anon? you might say. You're writing! Yes, of course, I'm writing, I'm creating things. But with the exception of the first thing I wrote, the rest of it has been smut fanfictions for one show, that, truth be said, I like a lot. And I like writing those fanfics too.

But I feel that writing smut isn't... right. I feel good writing it, but I just have time to write on Saturdays, so I feel like I could be spending my time doing something else. As I could spend my time and effort doing something better than I could show to everyone to read without even bothering to use an alt to write.

Because of how I feel now, I do wonder how smut artists do manage their real life interactions with the smutty ones. I look at my bookshelf and all of the authors I've read and/or admire have not needed to write smut to become what they are. Or I might not know about it, but that's another thing.

I'd like to read your thoughts about this, Anons.

Thanks a lot and take care.

[Anonymous No.16159586]

>>16159576
>I'd like to read your thoughts about this
My thoughts are that it was a waste of a good keyboard.

[Anonymous No.16159871]

>>16158711
huh?

[Anonymous No.16159921]

>>16159871
>CRAFT

[Anonymous No.16159992]

>>16159576
There's quite a few respected artists out there who do smut as well. It's absolutely a legitimate way to practice, and that's without getting into wether or not it's art itself.

[Anonymous No.16159999]

>>16159992
total cope and patently false by the way

[Anonymous No.16160029]

>>16159921
Oh okay, thank you

[Anonymous No.16160037]

>>16159992
There's an interview in which Orson Welles explains why erotic material can never be art. To paraphrase, he believed that the response to erotic material (i.e arousal) over-powered all other aesthetic considerations so that people cannot properly judge an erotic work. This explains why you can write absolute garbage and still get away with it if its erotica. So long as it gets people off it doesn't matter. Good or bad--they'll never notice.

I happen to agree with Welles and I'd argue that erotica is not a good way to practice because you'll get false positive signals when you share your writing (as well as false negative, for those who dismiss erotica outright) and get stuck with bad habits.

[Anonymous No.16160045]

>>16159576
>I got my first mechanical keyboard a month ago
Third world?

[Anonymous No.16160058]

>>16160037
It's wrong to say erotica is completely separate from art and aesthetics though. People will take any shit as long as they get off to it, but aesthetics greatly heighten the erotica. It will still always be erotica before it is art, though

[Anonymous No.16160132]

>>16155740
How do I write female characters?

[Anonymous No.16160162]

>>16160058
>People will take any shit as long as they get off to it, but aesthetics greatly heighten the erotica
Exactly it heightens only the same response: arousal. Whereas artistic considerations run orthogonally (or even counter) to the arousal response. It's been demonstrated in the lab that people become "stupid" when aroused, their frontal cortex practically shuts down and they lose their sense of reason. There's even an evolutionary explanation for this (since you see the trait conserved in lower mammals like mice) the arousal makes it more likely for contact to result in immediate copulation. It's part of the reason why its difficult to stop mid-arousal to do something sensible like put on a condom. It's nature's anti-birth control.

But regardless, it doesn't change the fact that techniques which make good erotica are antithetical to those of good literature. Write erotica if you want to get better at writing erotica, write literature if you want to get better at literature. The two are cross purposes.

[Anonymous No.16160166]

Novella’s are the future

[Anonymous No.16160387]

>>16160166
Yes, let us all take writing advice from someone who can't even use apostrophes correctly.

[Anonymous No.16160450]

>>16160387
>can’t
Am I being trolled right now?

[Anonymous No.16160486]

>>16160450
There is nothing wrong with that. Again, you show your ignorance.

[Anonymous No.16160810]

>>16160166
no one calls them novellas anymore. They're Light Novels

[Anonymous No.16160845]

>>16160810
The main difference is, unlike novellas, light novels don't know where to stop

[Anonymous No.16160882]

>>16157188
I hated "dark park"

[Anonymous No.16161466]

Why do people hate telling so much in writing
Showing is good but if you try to show everything you'll end up with a complete slog of a story

[Anonymous No.16161533]

>>16161466
tards who think rules matter

[Anonymous No.16161545]

>>16155758
Has "new sincerity" produced anything worth reading

[Anonymous No.16161550]

>>16161466
It's lazy to write and predictable aka. boring to read. It's not like you are supposed to show everything either.

[Anonymous No.16162189]

Pic related is a cautious reminder that you don't need to write a lot in order to finish a book, as long as you do just a little bit every day. My sci-fi novel is at 60 000 words written and the minimum daily wordcount I've set for myself is 50 words. I started the book in march and will likely finish the draft this year. Slow and steady.

Just don't skip days.

Other productivity tips:
You tend to enter 'the zone' after about 10 minutes of writing. The first 10 minutes of staring at your chapter are always the hardest, if you can get past it and nothing distracts you, your 100-300 words can turn into 800 or 1000 or higher.

Distractions such as discord, phone, humans - anything that makes you think about something other than your writing - will take you out, and suddenly you'll want to go do something else instead of spending more time getting back into the mindset. Turn off discord, silence the phone, close the door.

Make writing within reach. It's the same principle as having water within reach vs soda at the store. You're more likely to drink the water. If it's late night and you're tired but haven't done your 50 words for the day, having a writing program on your phone gives you no excuse, you can just lower the brightness and write.

Writing doesn't have to be good. You'll edit it later. If a part is giving you lots of trouble, there is huge value in time saved by just bad-writing through it quickly and leaving it to edit for later.

The skill in getting writing done comes in how you deal with obstacles. If you pretend you have 'writer's block' and just let your lack of creativity or fear of failure stop you, then you're not dealing with obstacles. The way to deal with obstacles is to bludgeon through. A book has a myriad of different scenes, some will come naturally, others will be a chore. Don't let the chore-scenes stop you from reaching the smooth-scenes. You will often find on a reread that you can't tell apart which scenes gave you trouble, and which were easy. Because your writing style is consistent; your perception of the moment is not. You have to push through.

And it's okay to push through in little bits, as long as you make a tiny amount of progress. If you look at my pic related, you'll see I've done very little writing in the past three days. That's because I was at a hospital and am dealing with stitches, and also the scene feels cringy and derivative. It's a tough writing spot, but if I inch forward bit by bit, the scene will eventually be finished. Lots of novice writers would stop here, assume the 'muse' will come back and compel them to get back to the writing. What's actually gonna happen is that they'd feel awful about not getting anything done, and be miserable. You have to push through the rough parts, that's what will make you much more productive.

Just set a goal that's so puny you can do it even if you're bleeding out from a severed artery. And then get it done every day and don't feel bad if that's all you do.

[Anonymous No.16162207]

>>16162189
While I think this is all good advice, please corroborate your claims by posting a good (in your opinion) excerpt from your work.

[Anonymous No.16162248]

>>16162207
Okay. Here you go.

I also posted a page for critique in the last thread; it was the one with the clones and rigid expositional dialogue I was asking for advice on.

[Anonymous No.16162265]

Has anyone here used ProWritingAid? Did you like if?

[Anonymous No.16162408]

>>16162265
I use the free addon on Docs because I love data but can't say it's too useful.

[Anonymous No.16162433]

>>16162408
Shit, can't even upload pictures right.

[Anonymous No.16162486]

I want to write a novel but I honestly have no idea how to start. I have a concreate Idea in my head. /lit/ have any recommended books about how to start? I rate myself as relatively intelligent, at least enough to know to avoid obvious, shitty tropes

[Anonymous No.16162499]

>>16162248
This is a first draft, right?

[Anonymous No.16162501]

>>16162248
Not bad anon. A few instances of accidental rhyme but that's par for the course with a first draft. Thanks for putting your money where your mouth is and not just LARPing.

[Anonymous No.16162504]

>>16162486
Just write. The first draft is just you getting it on the page. Don’t worry about editing till the second draft.

[Anonymous No.16162512]

>>16162248
Pretty decent, especially for the first draft. I had genuine snickers at the final dialogue.

[Anonymous No.16162519]

HA HA! When a write I can MAKE the WORDS dance ON the PAGE!
Is this not art! HA HA!

[Anonymous No.16162579]

>>16162486
Well I'd vet the idea a little first. For myself I like to use Aristotle's model to see if an idea has legs. It works for short stories, screenplays and novellas and I suppose it can be extended to longer works as well.

1. First check if your main character has a flaw that's ruining his life.
2. Then see if the idea has enough of a reversal of fortune to sustain it from beginning to end. The bigger the reversal the longer the work.
3. Now check if you have some kind revelation (basically a twist) which puts everything that came before it in a new perspective. Revelation can be internal or external but should ideally be both. Mystery novels tend to have only external reveals which make them emotionally inert. Whereas literary novels tend to be only internal in their revelation which make them mundane.
4. Now see if the idea has some kind of built-in clock or trigger that lets the reader know when the story is over and maintains pacing throughout. In The Grapes of Wrath for example, the clock is obviously the road trip. In War and Peace it's the war. In Gogol's The Overcoat, it's the purchase (and loss) of The Overcoat.
5. Now see if the idea suggests some characters, and whether these characters can be set in opposition to each other. Also think about whether the idea has some way to put these opposing characters into constant contact.

If you get a sense for all of these, but more importantly, if thinking about them spurs new ideas and makes you more excited, then you have a live one. If not, you may want to reconsider as there's a high likelihood of you running out of steam before the finish line.

[Anonymous No.16162594]

>>16162499
>>16162501
>>16162512
Thanks for not shitting on it. Yeah, it's an unedited first draft.

My advice was mostly about productivity and 'getting writing done,' so I wasn't too worried about posting my stuff since I wasn't giving advice on quality.

I've just struggled for a long time on the productivity angle, and I finally in the last two years I feel like I figured out a system that lets me complete full novels (and academic essays), so I wanted to share my findings.

[Anonymous No.16162615]

Posted this is another thread, but it's dying, so I'll throw it up here.

I wrote a book. But the industry has deemed it "problematic." I can't advertise it, and it's too expensive to sell it myself through my website. In a way, I wrote it for you guys. I wanted to show the world that there's more to literary humour than just making fun of whitey and referencing works that are better than yours. It's an encapsulation of the /lit/ spirit, with a bit of pop culture throw in. Think of it as Cards Against Humanity meets writing prompts.

I want you fucks to read it all the same. For anyone who's interested in giving another /litizen/ writer's work a lookover, I'll send a free signed copy (unless you're in fuckin' Zimbabwe, 'cause I ain't payin' for that).

[Anonymous No.16162622]

>>16162615
Post some excerpts.

[Anonymous No.16162641]

>>16162615
>But the industry has deemed it "problematic." I can't advertise it
Days ago a KKK Grandwizard was active on Twitter and big publishers routinely publish far right tirades. Stop making excuses, my man.

[Anonymous No.16162673]

>>16162622
You got it, champ.
>>16162641
I take it you're speaking from experience, having published something yourself?

[Anonymous No.16162687]

>>16162673
2/3

[Anonymous No.16162695]

>>16162687
Here it is.

[Anonymous No.16162704]

>>16162695
3/3

Let me know what you think.

[Anonymous No.16162724]

>>16162615
>>16162673
Are you that mentally ill guy who posted a full separate thread that got 0 replies? Just admit you're racist not just ironically, and either improve as a person or go post on /pol/ where people will agree with you. Don't bring this garbage here.

>>16162695
Idiotic prompt. Something a middle schooler might come up with.

>>16162704
One-sided political cringe inviting the promptee to agree with you. This is nothing like cards against humanity. It lacks the witty part, it's just provocative. 'haha its feminsts, write ur response here' 'ur cat hates gays, write about that'

Seriously, just go to /pol/.

[Anonymous No.16162761]

>>16162704
>>16162695
>>16162673
>>16162615
Shocking and repulsive! I must talk about my outrage on social media and up brand recognition!

[Anonymous No.16162779]

>>16162673
Only in small magazines when I was trying out stuff, not that MY publishing history is relevant to the matter when you can constantly see "problematic" stuff being published and promoted by the big publishers, to say nothing of the /pol/ tier shit on smaller ones.

Like Jesus, there are far more edgy videos on youtube praising white supremacy and hating on sand people with tens of thousands of viewers.

All the industry cares about is making money, if they don't want your shit, it's because it doesn't look like it will make them any.

[Anonymous No.16162836]

>>16162724
I am not that mentally ill guy. Not entirely sure what race has to do with this. Are you sure you're mentally stable, though?

As crude and poorly thought-out as your commentary is, it is helpful all the same. Regarding Cards: the user supplies the wit to a certain point. You have to give them a bit more of a lead with prompts.

And take a load off, m8. You seem stressed.

[Anonymous No.16162861]

>>16162779
I see what you're saying, but experience and observation has proved the exact opposite. Go to your local Chapters or B&N when you get a chance. Go to the literary magazine section. Pick up any magazine. You will see nothing but POC, BLM, feminist talking points. I would defy you to find even one poem, story, or article that challenges any of that. Believe me, I've got a running joke going with other writers that it can't be done.

Happy to look at anything that proves otherwise, though. It goes all the way down to the university rag level (I've contributed to several at this point).

[Anonymous No.16162917]

>>16162861
>literary magazine section.
A niche for people obsessed about the shit which rarely includes whitoids. If you look around in the B&N further, you'll find literally masterworks like Triggered by some of Donnies bastards bitching about the same stuff you do right in the overview.
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/triggered-donald-trump-jr/1132014880?ean=9781546086031

>This is the book that the leftist elites don't want you to read — Donald Trump, Jr., exposes all the tricks that the left uses to smear conservatives and push them out of the public square, from online "shadow banning" to rampant "political correctness."

[Anonymous No.16162992]

>>16162917
Great job at moving the goal posts. To your point: Triggered represents a giant cash cow, so even if publishers disagree with the points of view, they'll put it out. Ann Coulter's a great example of this as well. They're exceedingly rare, mind you.

[Anonymous No.16163004]

>tfw someone asks you for a review swap on royalroad
oh god oh fuck, I'm too soft when it comes to any reviewing but vidya bros

[Anonymous No.16163041]

>>16162704
>>16162695
>>16162673
>>16162615
Is it possible that the actual reason you can't publish this is because it's not very good?

[Anonymous No.16163122]

>>16155740
finished the first draft of the manuscript today, lads. I really only feel a vague displeasure at rushing the ending rather than any sense of accomplishment, though, unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.16163135]

>>16162992
Moving the goalposts how?

Your original point was
>I wrote a book. But the industry has deemed it "problematic." I can't advertise it
My counter was
>All the industry cares about is making money, if they don't want your shit, it's because it doesn't look like it will make them any.

Now you seem to agree with the commercial aspect but look for other excuses. The examples are rare because the target audience doesn't read and consumes podcasts or youtube videos instead. I wouldn't be surprised if most buyers of conservative talking heads are just liberals who want to figure whether the person is as much of a joke as they present themselves to be.

But worry not, you can still reach your audience. As another anon suggested, /pol/ is unironically not a bad choice. Put it out on Amazon and shill on /pol/, and you might get a few readers. Average /lit/ fags, even the ones who agree with your views in spirit, are unlikely to enjoy such transparent pandering and caricatures.

>>16163004
Just frame it with "my opinion" and go all in. Soft reviews are pretty useless.

[Anonymous No.16163153]

>>16163122
Kek, pretty much how I felt after the first draft. Through there was also a sense of accomplishment … going to sleep and being able to relax after 2-3 years working on it felt pretty good too.

Take a break/work on something else and figure out the shit later.

[Anonymous No.16163160]

>>16163041
Could be. But a British publisher was going to pick it up before COVID hit.

[Anonymous No.16163187]

>>16155740
My views were very well received. My deep insights garnered many comments from avid readers. My prose was clear, and above all, ethical. My post, which was the thesis of my current political and philosophical views, arrived rapidly at the front page, where it was lauded with many upvotes and at least 10 different awards, including two platinum medals, pinned next to my well thought title.

I leaned back and looked at my post once again. I realized that what I had written was not really that insightful, and it was mostly hollow non sense, devoid of any intelligent thought. I had repeated empty words. None of it could be called genius. It was pathetic. It was worthless trash. I felt hollow. The post got another award.
"Oh God, I wish I were dead." I said to my empty room

[Anonymous No.16163198]

>>16155934
You win, anon. You get it.

[Anonymous No.16163209]

I was thinking about writing a story about an assassin who gets hired to protect certain clients instead of killing them because he has the experience in killing people. Then I realized I don't know where to go from there.

[Anonymous No.16163215]

>>16161545
The Democrats

[Anonymous No.16163219]

How do I write a story about a ugly dicklet who can't get laid without sounding like an incel?

It's semibiographical btw

[Anonymous No.16163227]

>>16163135
I never said I denied the importance of commercial viability. My point was that you can get blacklisted very easily, so that, even if you work might make an okay amount of money (most books do not), you'd still get axed. It's only the Trump Jr. types that make it through because of the sheer draw of the product. These works often come from established public figures and are quite often solicited.

I don't care about /pol/. That kind of obsession with race and creed and all that isn't exactly healthy. All the same, I've heard what you've had to say and taken it into account. The only thing we can do as writers is engage in this kind of discussion and get better from it. Thanks for the chat.

[Anonymous No.16163234]

>>16163209
Think of a possible client, someone somehow intriguing to get the story going

[Anonymous No.16163262]

>>16163227
>even if you work might make an okay amount of money (most books do not), you'd still get axed.
What would be the logic here? Either it's likely to make them money and you're free to write about whatever you want or it's a risky bet that might not make shit and risk their reputation. If you're leaning towards the latter, it's simply not good enough to carry the content.

>These works often come from established public figures and are quite often solicited.
Sure but the crucial bit is that the industry doesn't care about the content. They are as happy to publish Mini Donnie as they would some black transgender woman who wants to cancel him. It has to look like something that sells, nothing more, nothing less. If you don't have the brandname, the writing has to do it.
>>16163209
YA is already overflooded with assassins, why spread the stuff further.

[Anonymous No.16163278]

>>16157092
Where do I start?

[Anonymous No.16163305]

>>16163278
A Universal History of Infamy and a complete version of The Aleph; for some reason the one that's sold on my country is always missing things like The Immortal.
A Universal History of Infamy is better at demonstrating what you can do with tell over show.

[Anonymous No.16163339]

>>16163278
Late Borges is exactly what you are looking for. Check The Book of sand

[Anonymous No.16163615]

Had an idea for a middle grade book. Remember in elementary how the teacher always said she had spies in the bathroom? Like special kids she’d picked out to make sure you’re washing your hands and not doing graffiti? I realize now she was bullshitting, but then I thought, what if that was true? The basic plot line I had was pretty cliche:
>elementary school bathroom spy begins finding obscure graffiti in the toilet stalls
>meanwhile, certain kids (known to be bad at spelling) begin winning in the Spelling Bee Tournament
>first place gets a pizza party for their class
>bathroom spy suspects obscure graffiti has something to do with it
>launches investigation, is hampered by hall monitor who he has to dodge while not blowing his cover
>red herring character (mysterious loner kid) turns out to be another teacher’s bathroom spy, working a case on non-flushers
>the two forge an uneasy alliance
>begin to uncover vast conspiracy wherein the hall monitor is using his position to sneak the words on the spelling bee to other kids in coded toilet stall graffiti
>bathroom spy falls for hall monitor’s trap, tricking him into the girls bathroom
>spy is stripped of his position and publicly humiliated before finding the lynchpin clue that blows the case open, winning respect and admiration of the entire school
I got about halfway through the opening scene before I realized what a colossally bad, creepy concept it was. But I really like the overall concept of an official kid’s spy network operating “off-the-grid” in an elementary school. Is there any way to salvage this? I was thinking about doing something with the library instead of bathrooms, but I think that kinda lacks the nostalgia factor of the old school bathroom spy rumor that we’ve all heard. Do you think if I really lean into the original concept and make the main character a dysfunctional outcast and seriously highlight how creepy bathroom spying is, I might be able to get away with it?

[Anonymous No.16163663]

>>16163615

They don't only have to spy in the bathroom! Make up an airduct scene and stuff on the playground

[Anonymous No.16163688]

>>16163615
I see potential in the premise and it's open for contemporary themes like surveillance and oppressive authority. Just gotta find a core plot thread to hold it all together.

[Anonymous No.16163750]

>>16163663
It just seems like even one instance of bathroom spying would be too many.

[Anonymous No.16163846]

>>16163750
As long as it's just little kids doing the bathroom spying thing and you're not making scenes of watching little kids piss of take a shit in great detail it's not really that bad. It's kind of funny.

[Anonymous No.16163994]

>>16163615
Do it but make it a parody/satire of the hard-boiled detective in over his head a la Chinatown or True Detective, complete with tragic(omic) ending.

[Anonymous No.16164005]

>>16157056
>>16161466
The bullshit show don't tell advice is STILL fucking with my writing. Five novels four novellas later it haunts me. Never ever listen to that shit.

[Anonymous No.16164138]

>>16163846
Yeah, the jokes basically write themselves when the kids guess the meals based on the sounds and time.

[Anonymous No.16164144]

>>16164005
What's your issue with it?

[Anonymous No.16164192]

How does one write beautifully? It doesn't seem possible to describe a beautiful view without the writing itself being beautiful, but I never think my writing is anything but ugly and flawed, how do I get over this and improve?

[Anonymous No.16164210]

>>16164144
Not him but really its all about moderation from what I can see. Choosing when to show and when to tell
People will drill the "show dont tell" advice into your head which is generally good but you hear it so much from so many people that it becomes "ONLY show, NEVER tell". Which brings up its own host of issues separate from the ones telling gets, namely pacing.

[Anonymous No.16164245]

>>16164005
Is this one of those images that's supposed to simulate having a stroke?

[Anonymous No.16164467]

>>16164210
Yeah I'm hitting this problem right now. You know, it's fine to skim over what a character did between the last chapter and the current chapter.

[Anonymous No.16164511]

>>16164210
Well, yeah but I have yet to hear a show don't tell-er to go all out claiming one should never do the other. Besides as with all writing advice (and advice generally), IMO it's obvious that the stuff is meant to be suggestions regarding stuff one should pay attention to, not hard rules to slavishly follow. If anyone claims only X is the right way, it's a good sign the person is too stupid to give advice.

And since especially beginner writers often suffer from generic, distant prose that could do with more show, I don't feel the constant repetition is a bad idea. It just seems to miss the mark when people still ask how to do it so often.

[Anonymous No.16164513]

How can I write good light novels?

[Anonymous No.16164519]

>>16164513
Make them interesting.

[Anonymous No.16164553]

Serial update bros, what times of the day do you usually find yourself scheduling chapters for? I was contemplating waiting until tomorrow afternoon before I blow my load on chapter releases since that's the time most wagies get home from their cagies, but I got impatient and published a few earlier. Personally, I just release them whenever I get done editing a chapter.

[Anonymous No.16164576]

>>16164553
I release when I'm done. I think it doesn't really matter that much on RR(where I publish), because the real goal is to hit trending. I got barely anything from releasing at different times, what got me readership was being on the front page for three weeks.

[Anonymous No.16164674]

I'm at a loss wg. two years of writing this story has made me lose interest in it and start to see writing as a chore. I don't want to give up on this story because it's still important to me, but working on it is exhausting me and in the past taking a break just made me anxious that i was wasting what little time god gave me

it feels like every option sucks

>>16164553
where is that gif from? I feel like I've seen that art style before

[Anonymous No.16164708]

>>16164674
What exactly made you lose interest in it? Why is it that important to finish it? Do you kinda somewhat know the ending?

[Anonymous No.16164756]

>>16164511
Yeah, a better rule would be 'Know when to tell and when to show'

[Anonymous No.16164799]

any writing books that helped you /wg/?

[Anonymous No.16164802]

>>16164708
>What exactly made you lose interest in it?
I'm not really sure. maybe it was spending two years writing it, or six years figuring it out. maybe it's that I already know where it's going, or maybe it's that I've been pushing myself too hard and have come to see writing as a responsibility. Hell, maybe playing DnD is just sapping all my creative energy and I need to quit that to get back to writing.

>Why is it that important to finish it?
because even my excitement for it has dried up, I still like the story and want to see it complete. The story's also an personal journey to be honest that coils up every one of my personal interests into a single, somehow cohesive narrative.

>Do you kinda somewhat know the ending?
yes and no. I have the book figured out, but the plan is for this to be the first book in a quadrilogy I haven't really planned out besides a few vague plot points

[Anonymous No.16164825]

>>16164802
You sound like a pussy and I bet your writing sucks too.

[Anonymous No.16164844]

>>16164553
I've tried various different times. Posting early in the day in my time zone got me practically no views at all, posting late at night worked better. But sitting on a ready chapter for so long is painful.

[Anonymous No.16164886]

>>16164802
>Hell, maybe playing DnD is just sapping all my creative energy and I need to quit that to get back to writing.
Sounds possible. When I take breaks from writing, it took a while to get back in, and when I'm writing I usually don't do anything else for months. Mixing shit up is hard.
>maybe it's that I already know where it's going
>even my excitement for it has dried up
Maybe you could go in deeper. I had feels like that at points but then noticed it was about specific parts of the story that were basically transition chapters instead of something exciting. Can always rewrite the less exciting stuff.
> I haven't really planned out besides a few vague plot points
Maybe spending some time on that helps you to refresh the passion for the stuff before. Besides, knowing where it goes, makes it easier to deal with stuff before.
>>16164825
Writers usually are pussies. The critical bit is overcoming it, that's also where the art happens.

[Anonymous No.16165033]

>>16164576
What’s RR?

[Anonymous No.16165070]

>>16165033
Royalroad, its one of the webnovel publishing platforms like Wattpad, Quotev, etc

[Anonymous No.16165859]

Tell, don't show.

[Anonymous No.16165960]

>posting on RR
Isekaifags and litrpgfags fuck off from this thread, your writing isn't legitimate.

[Anonymous No.16165964]

>>16162189
>Writing doesn't have to be good. You'll edit it later.
I always found this unhelpful reddit tier advice. It's why there are so many writers churning out shit. This mindset should be rare imo, at least try and get something good down even if it is just your first draft.

[Anonymous No.16165969]

The main course had finally arrived. A perfectly cooked turkey with all the trimmings. His dinner guests were starving. Someone had reached out, their fingertips coming within an inch of the fowl. He smacked that hand away with fervor.

"We are a civilized people. I shall do the honors," he said.

The man carved the bird, splitting the loaf into seven perfectly equal, thick turkey steaks. It had taken his guests mere moments to realize the error in the man's math. There were seven guests. It had slipped the man's mind that he was to cut himself a slice as well.

"Mister, I think you're off by one," a guest said.
"Nonsense," the man replied.

To the man's surprise, the guest was correct. Now came the problem of deciding whose steak would be halved. The guests sat in silence waiting to see who would be first to break. It wasn't long before the man returned, ready to eat.

"Have we decided then?" asked the man. Again, no one spoke. A feeling of disgust arose in one of the guests who could hardly feign otherwise.

"Mister, you can just have mine. I believe I've lost my appetite," the guest said in a huff.

"So have I," said another guest.

Then one after the other until it was decided.

"Thank you all, you're far too kind," said the man as he hoisted the turkey and got on his way.

[Anonymous No.16166096]

>>16155740
Give me rfreakingn 2/3 sentences about this image

[Anonymous No.16166494]

>>16164674
You might need to quit D&D if you think it's hindering your progress. The only other suggestion I can think of is to try and write separate drabbles (either something totally fresh or based on the characters from your novel) to get back into writing again. Maybe listening to some music that remind you of your story and characters could inspire you? At any rate, you're going to have to find some way to hype the story to yourself again.

[Anonymous No.16166665]

>>16165960
Woah there pal, who said anything about isekai or litrpg.

[Anonymous No.16166691]

>>16164192
I honestly think its innate. You need to have a certain sense of rhythm which tells you when words are arranged correctly or not.

[Anonymous No.16166869]

Every weekday I wake up and think 'FUCK I've gotta work on my stupid fucking novel again. I'd rather kill myself than withstand another day of this.' And you know what happens, anons? I sit down and work on it and reach my daily word quota and then I feel great... until the next morning when I wake up dreading the idea with every angstrom of my soul. This is a weird way to live.

[Anonymous No.16167016]

>>16166665
RR is only isekaishitfuck. They all need to fuck off. Isekai harms both the literary and anime world.

[Anonymous No.16167035]

>>16167016
Yeah, the likes of Narnia, Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, John Carter, and Lovecraft's tales simply destroyed western literature.

[Anonymous No.16167049]

Show then Tell

[Anonymous No.16167061]

>>16167035
Yes, I am sure your "I got reincarnated as a tickle-me elmo doll and swallowed by a giantess!" story on RR is on the level of those.

[Anonymous No.16167067]

>>16167035
I think isekai is a more specific genre than that. It has some additional tropes which are directly opposite of the stories you listed, like: the main character doesn't want to go back to his old life because the new one is vastly superior.

Isekai is mostly derived from the same kind of power fantasy which is available in videogames, which is why they often borrow tropes (e.g litrpgs) from that medium.

[Anonymous No.16167100]

>>16167067
Many writers copying popular concepts doesn't make said concepts mandatory for the genre. What an absurd suggestion.

[Anonymous No.16167105]

>>16167016
You're not wrong, but there's a good selection of works here and there that aren't either isekai at all.

[Anonymous No.16167130]

>>16167100
How else would you define genre? Isekai is a sub-genre of the much older "Voyage and Return" story, the main difference being that there's no Return component.

[Anonymous No.16167143]

>>16167130
Some isekai have return though

[Anonymous No.16167170]

>>16167130
Isekai literally means another world. It's about a character ending up, one way or another, in another world. That's the only definition it has or needs. Not close to all isekai light novels use the same tropes you mentioned.

It's like saying battle academy stories are defined by the protagonist walking in on a girl changing clothes, because it happens in almost all of them.

[Anonymous No.16167181]

>>16167143
Like what? Every single one I've seen is about starting over a new life. No one struggles to get back to where they came. Isekai actually follows a quest structure, like the Jason and the Argonauts, because it lets the authors display their world better. The only one I can think of where Return matters, is this one manga where a modern surgeon gets sent back into medieval Japan. Even in that one, the impetus to return is quickly relegated to the background.

[Anonymous No.16167197]

>>16167170
>Not close to all isekai light novels
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that many isekai LNs do not follow the trope (singluar btw, I mentioned only one trope) I'm talking about? If so I'd like to hear about them. It seems to me that taking out the Return aspect is part and parcel of the "another world" idea. You're not just stuck (since stuck would imply you want to return) but perfectly happy to start over in a new life.

[Anonymous No.16167219]

>>16167181
Not that anon and I haven't read a lot of isekai stories, but still know some examples. In Evil God Average, the protagonist wants to go back and does go back home in the end. In Magic Knight Rayearth, the characters return home. In Log Horizon, characters are looking for a way back. Hell, the characters NOT wanting to go back was a subversion developed in reaction to characters always whining about wanting to go home.

[Anonymous No.16167235]

>>16167219
I haven't heard of any of those (except Log Horizon) but I stand corrected.

[Anonymous No.16167245]

>>16167197
>(singluar btw, I mentioned only one trope)
Litrpg was also mentioned in the conversation, and against a very common misconception, not all isekai stories incorporate game mechanics.

[Anonymous No.16167263]

>>16167245
I only mentioned litrpgs as an example of isekai borrowing tropes from videogames. I didn't mean that all isekai are litrpgs.

[Anonymous No.16167273]

>>16167181
Most well known example would be Sword Art Online. Though it's more like they keep leaving and coming back.

[Anonymous No.16167313]

>>16167273
I can't tell if you're baiting, but SAO is not isekai.

[Anonymous No.16167314]

>longlisted for solid poetry prize from a prominent journal as my first publishing credit

Validation feels good

[Anonymous No.16167319]

>>16167313
I agree but most people would think it is.

[Anonymous No.16167320]

What the fuck are you weebs even talking about

[Anonymous No.16167434]

>>16167319
Let's talk real words here and not pleb illusions

[Anonymous No.16167449]

>>16164192
Try to only read well-written books, and literally transcribe sentences from them to force yourself to see how it's done.

[Anonymous No.16167458]

>Don't show.
>Don't tell.

[Anonymous No.16167465]

>>16167314
Which prize?

[Anonymous No.16168135]

>>16155740
So, I've been writing this novel that I've long procrastinated. Annoyingly, I lost many revisions I made, so there's signficantly more work to be done. But I digress.

Years back, when I showed this work to a writing teacher, he told me he appreciated the theme of kitchenware, food, and eating that I didn't realize at the time was all over the place.

Just wondering, looking over this and seeing it show up over and over, what sort of impression, symbolism, emotions, etc. can this sort of theme invoke?

I'm trying to brainstorm it to see what I can do if it fits... But what do you guys think?

For context, it's from the perspective of a near-immortal villain (who may or may not inhibit the mind of a non-villianous narrative character) sitting in a dining room inside a pocket universe inside which he can't eat, which he's very shortly about to escape from...

[Anonymous No.16168212]

>>16165969
This is pretty good, but I feel like you have more room to be bombastic at the end with the guy's reaction. It would be funnier if it was a little more silly, cause it would contrast with the politeness.

[Anonymous No.16168218]

>>16168135
Thinking about it, I suppose desire works. He's going after a "love interest" kinda and he has the general supervillain type desires, so I guess that accidentally play on words and the other stuff works.
I guess I just need to think why choose cereal and the descriptions I used... Then I'll fit that in.

Okay, this is fine now, I think. Just a strange setting for a villain in general, with all the soft shit at the start, but I'll figure it out.

[Anonymous No.16168248]

>>16168135
>>16168218
Be honest anon, on a scale of 1-10, how stoned are you?

[Anonymous No.16168383]

/wg/ I've been mulling over this idea for a story about a golem in WWII who uses his wits to protect his people rather than brute strength.I think the idea could be really interesting on its own, but the story grew out of another idea that's a bit more complicated and I'm not sure if I should cut it down to something simpler

the original version of the idea was that instead of the characters being humans, it would be a conflict between a fascist dwarven empire and impoverished goblin villagers who are only trying to survive. The story would have been a mix of dieselpunk and fantasy, but now I'm worried this idea is a bit too complicated to set up and would be too easily misconstrued.

[Anonymous No.16168396]

>>16155740
>tfw you finally stop hopping from idea to idea, and begin writing something
let's go bros!

[Anonymous No.16168462]

>>16168383
If the complicated idea interests you, then give it a try. It would be a pity if you dropped it because you don't dare to do something difficult.

[Anonymous No.16168550]

>>16164511
>Well, yeah but I have yet to hear a show don't tell-er to go all out claiming one should never do the other.
They may not explicitly say it, but it's still strongly implicit since it's phrased as a command to do one and not the other. Especially since there's no counterbalancing phrase to point out that sometimes it's better to tell than it is to show.

[Anonymous No.16168597]

>>16168462
honestly, I like both ideas but I'm not sure which to go with. For the latter one, its fantasy elements and convolution are both a plus and a minus

[Anonymous No.16168628]

>>16165964
Obviously you should be trying to write as well as you can even on your first draft, but you won't always be able to write everything decently on your first go and in those cases it's better to just fart it out onto a page no matter how poorly it goes. This helps you better define what ideas you want to get across in your writing so later on you can get to figuring out how to give them proper form.

[Anonymous No.16168693]

>>16168597
Your first post sounded as if you were leaning towards the goblins and dwarves idea, while being deterred by the difficulty of writing it. Well, if cannot decide which story to pick, why don't you begin to write both? Or do you see a point in pondering further whether you want to write one or the other? You can always change your mind.

[Anonymous No.16169268]

How often should I use swear words in my prose?

[Anonymous No.16169323]

>>16169268
Sparingly, unless you want to be annoying.

[Anonymous No.16169334]

>>16169323
>he doesn't actively fuck with his readers

[Anonymous No.16169404]

>>16163219
>semi

[Anonymous No.16169567]

>>16157188
>"It was a dark and stormy night."
Evocative and to the point.
>"Rain slapped me in the face as I ran through the dark park and the bottle of mace slipped from my fingers."
Overlong and with poor flow.
>>16159576
You might try writing romance rather than just pure smut. Realistic romance, that is, with realistic characters and realistic interactions, not that trashy wish-fulfillment crap of the sort where a flawlessly hot person falls for some bland self-insert who has absolutely nothing going for them and contributes nothing to the relationship.

[Anonymous No.16169579]

smut < romance < frontier romanticism < metaphysical romanticism < outright gothic romanticism

just a fact

[Anonymous No.16169620]

>>16162189
>chore-scenes
This is a huge beginner’s mistake, this bizarre notion that a novel needs to have boring parts. I see it a lot on novice writer’s forums but you’ll almost never hear a successful writer say that they feel compelled to pad their novel with dull tripe. Basically if you don’t find something interesting then there’s a good chance that no one else will either. That’s not to say that every scene needs to be action-packed. I’m reading LOTR right now and there is surprisingly little action for the first 150 pages, but the descriptions of life in the Shire are charming and I like them. The songs and details about the landscape bore me, but I highly doubt Tolkien was thinking “fuck I don’t want to write another goddamned song but I really need to break up these dinner scenes” when he wrote them.

[Anonymous No.16169637]

>>16169620
Actually I think it is the exact opposite. Sometimes an work of art requires parts that you aren't super excited to work on. An amateur will say "WRITING ITSELF SHOULD NEVER BE BORING" and go frolick in some other shit. A professional will sit down and make it happen, if the story needs it.

[Anonymous No.16169697]

>>16169637
In my admittedly amateurish experience, there's different types of "chorishness" that have to be approached differently. Sometimes I'm having trouble writing something because I can't figure out the right words and structure to use, in which case I have to buckle down and put in the hard work of figuring out how to say what I want to say.
Other times when I'm having trouble writing something it's because the thing I'm writing adds nothing to the story and I just haven't figured it out yet. Stuff like writing overly-detailed descriptions about how some character eats his lunch when it's best to just write something simple like "Aaron ate his lunch insolitude" and move on with the story.

[Anonymous No.16169768]

>>16169697
Yeah that’s kinda the point I was trying to make. Interestingly enough it was the same kind of scene where I had my epiphany on the subject: a character eating lunch by himself. I finally just started throwing in placeholders with little notes [character is eating lunch by himself- why?] instead of slogging through them. I went from a scene that bored me to write [character eats lunch by himself, pretending that he made the choice himself because no one else is good enough for him] to a scene that interested me [character makes abortive attempt to eat lunch with others, his tendency to compensate for insecurity with arrogance and inability to read social cues results in humiliating rejection, bruising his fragile ego and leaving him wide open for an invitation to eat lunch with another character who has less-than-noble intentions for requesting his companionship].
I’m not sure who said it but there’s a quote from a famous author which says that the scenes which are difficult to write turn out to be unnecessary.

[Anonymous No.16170019]

>>16165969
>A perfectly cooked turkey with all the trimmings
And this is where you SHOW don't TELL.

[Anonymous No.16170031]

>>16169268
As long it fits to the point of view character.

[Anonymous No.16170071]

>>16169567
>Evocative and to the point.
The point being a weather description which doesn't contribute to the story? It could be replaced to a "bright and sunny day" with nothing gained or lost. Dickens used the shit just to pad out words.
>Overlong and with poor flow.
But with stuff actually happening and the weather description being relevant to the story.

[Anonymous No.16170085]

>>16170071
Give me an example of where Dickens padded using descriptions of weather. In every case I can remember he does it to establish a very specific mood or atmosphere or to foreshadow themes.

[Anonymous No.16170193]

>>16170071
>a weather description which doesn't contribute to the story?
>the weather description being relevant to the story.
There's more to good writing than just listing off a series of events. Aesthetic considerations such as setting the mood are also important, and "It was a dark and stormy night," for all that it gets shat on for being cliché, is in-and-of-itself still very effective at this.

[Anonymous No.16170299]

>>16170085
>>16170193
What mood does it actually set when you don't have a character first nor their reaction towards it latter? At best it gives you a time, and even that rarely matters for the events that follow.

[Anonymous No.16170342]

>>16170299
Depends on the form. In the kind of stories that Dickens wrote, the setting becomes an external representation of something internal (either the character, the themes, or the plot). The opening of Great Expectations is an excellent example of this. We see Pip's eye travel from the graves of his family out into the distance, toward the bay. In that sweep, we get the gist of the entire plot and the heart of Pip's character as well. Likewise the description of Satis House, the dilapidation, the abandoned brewery, the locked gate. The details are carefully selected to serve a double or treble purpose.

[Anonymous No.16170365]

>>16155740
Trying to work on my descriptive writing. Thoughts? I think it might be too wordy:

The deck itself was dull, grayed out and unremarkable. But around the borders of its dead wood, life bloomed a bright green. Branches jutted through the diamond cut railings and towards the entrance, trying to pull us into the illustrious view outside our confines. At the ends of these branches were colorful flowers: some curiously peaked in and out of the side fencing, some were still, in awe of the view lying ahead.

There was a clear blue sea surrounded by mountains carpeted with moss, both going as far as the eye could see. The dark waters of the sea stayed firm under soft ripples, and in them images of the mountains were clear as day. Clouds, undoubtedly alive, slithered up and down the sage peaks. They crowned the mountains just as the shrubbery adorned our deck: some wandered around with great curiosity, reveling in all of the mountain's splendor, some raced to the top in search of greater sights.

[Anonymous No.16170373]

>>16170365
Well fuck me, the clouds looked different in my head. And I forgot the boats.

[Anonymous No.16170396]

>>16170365
I think the key to descriptive writing is in knowing something about who is "behind the camera". e.g here's a really good exercise from Gardner's book (modified and paraphrased):

>Write a short description of a farmhouse from the perspective of a man who has just come from prison. Now write a description of the same farmhouse from the perspective of a man who has just killed someone. Do not mention the prison or the murder.

[Anonymous No.16170450]

>>16170365
It’s not too wordy, just poor word choice. You used “carpeted” twice, for instance. In a passage which obviously strives for originality, this kind of thing is jarring. It seems to me like you’re more interested in finding pretty/unique words than accurate ones. If I asked, for instance, why the clouds were “slithering” up and down the peaks, what would you say? Were you hoping to draw an unconscious connection between these clouds and snakes? Because that’s kind of what’s going on.

[Anonymous No.16170581]

>>16169620
All I meant is that some scenes are difficult to write. That doesn't mean they're uninteresting to read, it just means they're tough to write for whatever reason, like having to spend a long time crafting a description you're satisfied with, or having to repeat dialogue phrases to make sure you nail them. I come away from heavy dialogue scenes very exhausted, and scenes where I have to describe character emotion really drain me mentally because I have to put myself in the character very deeply.

And sometimes just describing what you know so well feels boring to write, even though a reader will discover it for the first time and feel the scene as fresh and interesting.

So fuck off.

>>16165964
I meant that when a part is giving you trouble, you should bad-write through it. That doesn't mean you bad-write the entire novel, unless everything gives you trouble for some reason.

>It's why there are so many writers churning out shit.

What? I said you'll edit it later, moron. Not leave it alone. What you wrote doesn't make any sense. Once you go back to your manuscript with a fresh eye, you can find solutions much more efficiently than when you've obsessed over it for days on end. You clearly haven't finished a big writing project or done a lick of editing.

[Anonymous No.16170588]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpVo9Y2zEHc

[Anonymous No.16170629]

>>16170396
True. I always felt like I was cheating when doing that though. I like that exercise, I'll try it in another thread. Are there any other books you'd recommend for this?

>>16170450
Thanks for the feedback anon, I appreciate it.

>It’s not too wordy, just poor word choice.
Yeah, I really need to work on my vocabulary too.

>You used “carpeted” twice
Where?

>It seems to me like you’re more interested in finding pretty/unique words than accurate ones.
I'm actually trying to look for something accurate, I just don't have much of a vocabulary to work with right now. It's just inexperience. I'll work on it.

>why the clouds were “slithering” up and down the peaks
Yeah, that was definitely poor word choice.

>Were you hoping to draw an unconscious connection between these clouds and snakes? Because that’s kind of what’s going on.
Sort of? I was trying to make them feel alive. Snake/worm-like seemed like the way to go with the clouds I had in mind.

Would you say the word choice is your only complaint? Or is there something else you think I should work on. If you don't mind, can you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10?

[Anonymous No.16170660]

>>16170588
i like this dude's vids. they're pretty entertaining.

[Anonymous No.16170719]

>>16157570
I mean it was facts tho

[Anonymous No.16171009]

>>16170629
Whoops, I was wrong about the “carpeted” thing.

I would say that word choice is my only complaint, but I’d also say it’s kind of the only thing here to judge. The picture somewhat spoiled my chance to build a mental image from your writing, so I can’t judge it on accuracy, which I believe is what you were aiming for.

The thing about “slithering” is it draws a somewhat sinister image, so although it may be accurate for the picture you had in mind, it’s inconsistent with the tone. Like you said, that’s an issue with inadequate vocabulary. There is probably a better word, but I can’t think of it off the top of my head either.

One thing I like is the consistency of metaphor and imagery: you immediately contrast the dead wood with the living plants and maintain that contrast by describing the surrounding scenery in terms of life. The clouds were slithering as opposed to “drifting” or “floating”. Living things slither, dead things mostly drift. What I didn’t like was the exact way you did it, eg the word slither. I’d also advise more subtlety, specifically by excluding the words “alive” and “dead” and relying more on those descriptive terms I mentioned (words like slither, that aren’t slither) to create that effect.

If I had to give it a rating, I’d go with 5/10. An ambitious attempt which didn’t quite stick the landing, but which shows great potential.

[Anonymous No.16171029]

>>16168248
I'm not so sure I was until you said that and gave me ideas.

[Anonymous No.16171242]

>>16168135
>>16168218
Not just desire, anon, but also a reflection of his attitude towards desire in general. A more sane individual would attempt to distract himself from that which he craves but cannot have, whereas your villain surrounds himself with reminders. It’s like the old saying “If all you want is to be rich, you’ll always feel poor.”

[Anonymous No.16171612]

>>16171009
Thanks anon! I appreciate the feedback again. And next time I'll link the image in a separate post under the description, or put it in a spoiler. Time to work on that vocabulary of mine.

[Anonymous No.16171731]

99% of the time, I can only write soulless crap. That 1% of the time, it usually lasts like two or three hours and only if the stars align and some other bullshit. How do I expand that short time where I am good at writing into a longer period?

[Anonymous No.16171778]

>>16171731
You don't. You write, you revise, and you accept that you are not inspired. Most authors aren't. Most good authors aren't. If it were possible to simply capture inspiration, and generate it on demand, then you would be in the same situation you are now, comparing yourself to others who have access to that same tool.

There is no secret mindset. There's only the drudgery of self improvement, and the occasional payoff that makes everything worthwhile.

[Anonymous No.16172000]

>>16171731
Inspiration is nice and all, but she is a fickle mistress, and if you expect to wrie more than a thousand words a month, you must learn to do without her aid.

[Anonymous No.16172063]

Okay, I'm putting in more thought on this golem story and there are pros and cons to the different approaches

making the story high on fantastic elements will pretty much require me to flesh out the world the story takes place in, which would in turn require multiple books and international intrigue. If I just make it magical realism it's significantly less work involved. Right now, I'm swamped enough in projects that adding a series to my workload sounds like a disaster. Of course, all this is contingent on me finishing my current novel and the series attached to it, after which I already have a handful of other stories to work on. I think it's best I just stick to the magical realism version and talk to a DM about integrating the goblin stuff into their setting next time I play a dnd character

[Anonymous No.16173555]

Wheel of Time abridgement is going great. I wrapped up combining books 09-11 last weekend. It ended up being 390k words (which is not atypical for a WoT book, though it sounds long). Lots of exciting stuff happening now that pacing is faster. I sent to my beta reader, will get feedback this weekend...so, pretty excited for that.

I've now finished the section of WoT I started the project for (books 07-10). And now I'm starting my overview of the Sanderson books. The more I look at them, the more confident I am that I can pull books 12-14 into one book. Though I'm going to have quite a different experience with the Sanderson books I think: A lot of bad Mat/Perrin to delete or rearrange. A lot of timeline issues to fix. Dialogue styles and anachronisms, etc.

I'm afraid I'll have to be much more additive now, so it may take me longer to do these books but hopefully will be finished by November. At which point I'll do a last overview of the entire series to ensure that no important details or foreshadowing was dropped.

[Anonymous No.16174231]

>>16173555
https://pastebin.com/QRVuf05v
posted on the critique thread as well. does the imagery of the cappadocian hide outs being formed by the voice of God, like how water/paint on top of speakers make spires corresponding to the sound coming out from below? Might be reaching too far

[Anonymous No.16174237]

>>16174231

[Anonymous No.16174414]

Alright guys, which is better a female protagonist or a male protagonist

[Anonymous No.16174487]

>>16174414
Depends on a lot, anon.

[Anonymous No.16174704]

>>16174414
Based on so little info, I'd say female due the rarity, unless you happen to write in a genre that has too many of them like YA or romance.

[Anonymous No.16174816]

What do you guys do if you're writing a story where the technology doesn't really make sense? In my setting most people get from place to place in planes and my excuse is because roads were destroyed a long time ago so no one uses cars anymore and the distance between places is really far, but really I just want them in planes cause it's cooler. Do you guys bother justifying things like this or just say "fuck it, my story"

[Anonymous No.16174877]

>>16174816
You could make it so the world is flooded except for small islands so to visit other islands you have to either fly or float

[Anonymous No.16174909]

>>16174414
Female protagonist but she has to be cute and not like generic YA brooding girl.

[Anonymous No.16175070]

I have a bit of a problem. Not with writing but presentation. I'm working on a web serial, which I hope to finish and get posted soon. It's expected to run for about three months or so. The thing is, the story is pretty summer-y, but I'll only be able to complete it by October or November earliest. Which means, people will get to read a summer story in the middle of the darkest winter, and that's kind of fucked up.

The question is, do you personally care about stuff like that at all while reading, or am I just being autistic for no reason? I could also postpone the story until April or so, and twiddle my thumbs for half a year, but that's not a very brilliant idea either. I'm kind of fucked in any case, but which is the lesser evil?

[Anonymous No.16175095]

>People ask why my hobbies are
>I tell them 'Writing'
>I haven't written anything in years

Can you be a writer, without writing?

[Anonymous No.16175323]

I just noticed that when I'm writing a team for a comic there's always a character that falls off and it's always the rowdy delinquent type but when I have a duo with a similar character it works well.

Anyone had a similar issue?

[Anonymous No.16175340]

>>16175095
Nope. You're larping because you like what the word 'writing' implies. You don't actually do it; you're lying to your friends just to pretend you're cool.

Reminder that your writing doesn't have to be good. As long as you're writing, you're a writer.

[Anonymous No.16175384]

>>16174816
the only thing that really matters is whatever has narrative significance and can be remotely believable
if the specific emotional properties of planes as opposed to cars feature heavily in your story then it might be difficult to overlook the absence of one but otherwise you can just write it off as part of the aesthetic, like how in dragon ball goku has a nifty flying cloud and can also teleport but still uses other forms of transportation when the story calls for it

[Anonymous No.16175397]

>>16175340
does shitposting on /lit/ count as writing

[Anonymous No.16175404]

>>16175397
only if your post get screencapped and reposted :^)

[Anonymous No.16176209]

dont die

[Anonymous No.16176369]

Just when I thought I had this story about a counterfeiter saving jews from the holocaust figure out, inspiration threw me a curveball and now I'm trying to figure out how to make the villain into a backstabbing walt disney knockoff

[Anon the Anon No.16176375]

>>16169567
Well, since this week I'm not writing smut, I'm trying to drift back to my old Alternate History work, but so far I haven't got a solid idea yet. Romance seems like a nice suggestion, but I think I would like to integrate it as a part of any work just than writing a novel based on it.

This might sound a bit weird, but I discovered that writing fanfiction about an established universe, with characters and settings, it's way different than creating your own characters and settings, even on an Alternate History work. But I'm sure I'll get there :)

Still, thanks a lot, Anon. Take care.

>>16159992
I might back to write smut eventually, but not for some time. I want to let it down for a while. Ok, writing porn is all good and nice, but there must be something else I'm sure I'm good about. That's my point. I don't want to make myself known just by writing porn. I feel bad about it. Making porn is sure very different that just consuming it, it seems that is a fact I just discovered myself.

[Anonymous No.16176421]

>>16175070
Really, no one? Nothing? No thoughts? Is there anything at all going on between your ears? Is pondering how to use apostrophe or whether you're a writer if you're not writing the absolute limit of /lit/? You guys stink

[Anonymous No.16176469]

>>16175070
>>16176421
I don't care about that sort of thing. Some periodicals and journals will: they curate issues with certain themes or like them to make sense based on the release time. But getting picked up for publication means it would actually see the world pretty far in the future, since that process usually takes almost a year.

In short, don't worry about it. If you were a well-known writer with a direct line to an editor who wanted to push your recent stuff out, you could intentionally write a seasonal piece to be released at the same time. But you aren't.

[Anonymous No.16176678]

>>16170581
>You clearly haven't finished a big writing project or done a lick of editing.
Not true at all. That's a ridiculous thing to claim based on my dislike of one piece of advice.

I just think it puts you in the wrong mindset for both writing and editing. It makes people inclined to write trash and accept trash. There's no need to be so defensive.

[Anonymous No.16176760]

Where do I fucking begin? Everything I write is shit and I can’t even explain why it’s shit without making myself sound clueless of the ways that I don’t remember/follow through with improvement. I write a single paragraph and it’s bad, I come back to it later and change some things around and it’s still bad. I can point out things in everything else (even if I don’t know any of the terminology or terms for what I’m talking about and have to speak exclusively in abstraction) but I don’t know how to do shit with anything of my own because I have no voice other than my talking voice that’s constantly 1st person to a fault so I’m not going to write sounding like that.

[Anonymous No.16177617]

>>16176760
Just write bad then. I can guarantee you I could google "good prose," paste it here, and half the people would say it's great, the other half would shit on it. Pretty much everyone hates their own work. but if you have a story you really want to tell, just tell it. Worry about making it look good once the story is done. You can't sharpen a knife if you don't have a chunk of metal to make a knife to begin with. Worry about the finer details later.

[Anonymous No.16177629]

Does writing ever become enjoyable? Should I just quit and impose my dreams on the next generation?

[Anonymous No.16177650]

I'm writing a story where an object talks, kind of like Hermes in Kino's journey. I'm trying to figure out how to make sure the audience understands that there's not a character I haven't introduced and it's actually the object talking, but I don't want to outright say "the talking x"

[Anonymous No.16177667]

>>16177629
Writing at first is probably enjoyable when you're really young, then you figure out what good writing is and realize you're far from it, then you don't enjoy it. But someday you're gonna realize it doesn't matter if it's shit. just write because you want to write and don't care about beautiful prose or getting that perfect paragraph

[Anonymous No.16177672]

>>16177650
explain it in a footnote

[Anonymous No.16177992]

>>16177650
Don't distinguish between the object's dialogue and the narrator. That way the reader will be as surprised as the characters.

[Anonymous No.16178028]

How do I write female characters?

[Anonymous No.16178047]

>>16178028
small children

[Anonymous No.16178052]

>>16178028
read gaddis

[Anonymous No.16178110]

>>16178028
The trick is just to be yourself

[Anonymous No.16178120]

>>16178028
Write a male character and then change him to her, you'll probably end up with the best female character in recent history

[Anonymous No.16178125]

>>16178110
Absolutely this. If you dont have TRUE talent, the only way to write great is though true life experiences. See Jack Kerouac. If you are a master, you can write about anything beautifully, see Shakespeare.

[Anonymous No.16178153]

>>16178120
No that's how you make a bad character
I want a female character that's really feminine truly a woman
>>16178110
Shush
>>16178052
Who
>>16178047
What

[Anonymous No.16178162]

So for a story I'm writing I have a world that is almost a pure desert, and it's a fictional world, but I want to have certain real things, like specific guns, should I make up new ones or just include them and give no explanation as to why a real company is in a fictional world?

[Anonymous No.16178182]

>>16178162
is it only "not-earth"? or is it some fantastic land?

[Anonymous No.16178271]

>>16178153
Diego stop shitposting and come back I miss you

[Anonymous No.16178367]

>>16178271
I'm asking a genuine question and all I get is mockery

[Anonymous No.16178414]

>>16178367
I gave a genuine answer, though, just be yourself. I'm juggling too many vaginas in my story and the only real experience I go off is talking to coworkers or flimsy anime characters

[Anonymous No.16178731]

>>16174816
Rewrite the shit one way or another.
If I'm aware the stuff doesn't make sense while writing and there isn't any sort of explanation that could work beyond "I like it", it'll just irk me too much.
>>16175070
Just your autism bruv, most people don't care and some might even like the contrast ... I'm more concerned about you even considering to release it right after completing it. Let the shit rest for a month or two. Then see what you can improve again. And might organically reach the date you want. Don't be lazy during the last moments.
>>16175095
Fuck no.
Imagine how silly it'd be calling yourself a footballer because you played football years ago with your friends.
>>16177629
It always is. If anything time and experience made me enjoy it more, when it was mostly means to an end in the beginning.

[Anonymous No.16178749]

>>16178028
Imagine wimin are people.
>>16178153
> character that's really feminine truly a woman
And what does this shit even mean?
>>16178367
Imagine how dumb "how do I write male characters" would sound. Same applies for this "genuine" question.

[Anonymous No.16178832]

I'm glad I'm finally getting inspiration for stories again. I just wish I had inspiration for the story I'm working on

[Anonymous No.16178975]

>>16178182
It's just not earth

[Anonymous No.16179004]

>>16178975
us the names of the guns

[Anonymous No.16179019]

I have lots of cool scenes and moments in my head, but nothing larger to put them into.

[Anonymous No.16179025]

Holy shit lads, think I might finally write a chick today. I’m literally shaking right now. Any tips?

[Anonymous No.16179104]

>>16179025
stop shaking

[Anonymous No.16179110]

>>16179019
Don't have an overarching story, just pretend you're writing a serialized manga or something and have to keep pumping out chapters so you can't end the story. Self contained small chapters yknow

[Anonymous No.16179126]

How do you guys come up with names for your characters?

[Anonymous No.16179135]

What's your outline process like? Do you adhere to any sort of story structure?

[Anonymous No.16179190]

>>16179135
I tend to start by splitting it into 5 or 7 acts, but each of them has a tension build up like in a more simple 3 act structure.

For my second book, I knew roughly where it starts and where it ends, and had a few scenes that I could put into end of act 5 and middle of act 2, etc.

Then consider what can happen before and after the scenes I have and ideally have ideas for complete chapters at this point. Repeat when I have more scenes/chapters and so on.

It's one of the most fun phases tbqh.

[Anonymous No.16179209]

>>16179135
Personally I just write the story as it comes to me, I've never been one to make outlines

[Anonymous No.16179214]

>>16179209
sorry stephen king but that's bound to lead to shit stories

[Anonymous No.16179227]

>>16179214
Sometimes if I plan ahead, when I finally get to a point I'll think it's stupid and try to change the whole story, if I write as it comes to me then every choice I make at the time seems like the right one if that makes sense

[Anonymous No.16179231]

>>16179214
Not him and not really. One can always edit in the end.

[Anonymous No.16179240]

Plenty, plenty of the airport dreck you see is thoroughly outlined so it can be filled in A to Z for a reliable deadline
King is actually probably an outlier in that sense of churning stuff out while also pantsing

[Anonymous No.16179343]

>>16178028
If you're concerned about something like their impact on the plot, that's something you should judge and delegate on a case by case basis. Some male characters might have zero effect on anything because of who they are and some women might be really important.
If it's about particular traits you're concerned about, read some pop-sci (that's corroborated, of course) about what women do differently to men. Some things I remember were that women are generally more agreeable and that they like conversations as a social activity more than just getting to the point of talking to someone but maybe it's not all that true. Then it comes to what you can do with this information. Maybe one of them ends up as a sycophant of another character and does little of note due to her agreeableness or maybe she gets to be a relatively important public servant due to how well she plays a social environment to her benefit. These aren't things that a man couldn't do, but they are obviously things a man would have a harder time to pull off; for one, most people wouldn't assume the worst out of a woman desperately climbing up a hierarchy that easily.

[Anonymous No.16179345]

>>16179135
>I pick a theme
>Based on the theme I give the protagonist an appropriate set of values and how it would set them on the path of a concrete tangible goal
>Other characters are created based on their ability to best expose the flaws and virtues of the protagonist's values
>Then I think about how the protagonists views should change by the end of the story based on how the other characters challenged or reinforced his mindset

After I have this down it's all about trial and error in finding the right story beats that would best convey these ideas.

[Anonymous No.16179352]

>>16179135
Is this actually good or just a meme?
I hate Harmon too much to even bother watching something he has done to confirm.

[Anonymous No.16179369]

>>16179135
>come up with a character and his conflict with the world
>deduce a theme out of it
>start coming up with stuff to fill the world with that explains the character being like that and add characters that add other angles to the theme
>never finish

[Anonymous No.16179384]

>>16179352
It's at least better than the fucking Hero's Journey. I would just focus on really nailing the need and desire of your character and from there do whatever you feel is best to your specific narrative without trying to force your story into fitting a template.

[Anonymous No.16179629]

>>16179135
List all the ideas of potential...
- characters
- locations
- specific plot points
- themes
... that naturally come to mind.
Start establishing connections between elements from different lists(like how a specific plot point idea could fit particularly well on a specific location)

I take the plot point ideas that very quickly lend themselves to a specific location, characters and themes out of those I came up with and set it on an empty timeline at the point they should happen in the story.
They become my pillars and I think up the circumstances that would lead to said plot points and the consequences that would follow. That would hopefully reveal some adjacent necessary plot points in which I will try to use up the remaining elements on my list that didn't have the full set of connections at first.
Then its just about filling the missing gaps because it comes a point when you have determined enough that the entire thing becomes an equation where you can deduce what's missing based on what you already have. The goal is to make it so every plot point has a defined location, characters and theme associated with it.

[Anonymous No.16179641]

Lol i forgot this thread was a thing.
Do you guys have any advice for writing an adventure story?

[Anonymous No.16179649]

>>16179641
Make sure there's an adventure to go on

[Anonymous No.16179668]

>tfw I have to go back and do everything again because everything i wrote is complete and utter nonsense

[Anonymous No.16179703]

>>16179135
I like to think I have most overall major plot ideas planned out, but I struggle a bit with the smaller goals on the journey and culmination of each one. This is probably my own inability to write in 1st or 3rd person though, or even writing from a character's perspective at all in any capacity. When I first planned out and wrote the first ~17 chapters of my WN I was aiming for a sort of omnipotent historical narrative being recounted by someone who lived generations after the events happened-with little regard to actual character interactions with one another except for some blurbs here and there. I was somewhat inspired by the Unbiased History of Rome series on YT but in an sci-fi space opera setting, just without all the satire humor and dry as a nutsack, but the main inspiration was the overall narration in Legend of the Galactic Heroes anime.
This was my comfort zone but it wasn't at all engaging to readers from the small pool of people who actually bothered to give me feedback, so I spun it around in a very soft reboot into a 1st person narrative which has been kinda challenging. I think I kinda flubbed the start of it in hindsight, since I didn't delete the original chapters and just kept going on with the rebooted ones. This continues to haunts me for not being the best choice of action in hindsight but I can't bring myself to delete them and I don't have anything in mind to replace them in the first place, but I did delete the first chapter since it was disgustingly pretentious and replaced it with first person pov introduction with 2 of the 3 protags and exposition woven in in a way I felt was more natural.
For the most part I don't think I'm actually following any sort of story structure. There's 3 protagonists belonging to different affiliations and I've planned out about 3 of the immediate story arcs, but beyond that it's a bit hazy since it's also the part where I stopped in the original concept chapters. I'm only in the first arc which has spanned 22 chapters so far not including the original gay baby chapters and I'm scratching my head about some pacing chapters with stuff that matters and stuff I fear is just slice of life bants between characters or my protag being autistic about a wristwatch that was stolen for like 2 paragraphs.. I'm still trying to chalk up how I'm going to do the 2nd arc at all because it's being entirely shouldered by the last protag that gets introduced in it, but the one immediately succeeding it will get me back on track though until I get fucked by the next arc since that's where I stopped originally. Story-lines are hard bros.

[Anonymous No.16179801]

alright, so my epic, my magnum opus, the whole shtick is that every chapter is gonna end with a giant twist that also changes the genre
Nobody is gonna expect what is gonna happen next, every single expectation will be subverted, and I will be added to the pantheon of great American novelists.

[Anonymous No.16179811]

>>16179703
sounds interesting anon
where can i read it?

[Anonymous No.16179829]

>>16179668
Being able to realize it is an important step on your journey. As is trying to fix shit.

[Anonymous No.16179833]

>>16179135
>write down a bunch of single sentence ideas
>pick the one I like best
>create a protagonist or protagonists
>give them a few defining character traits, a one sentence explanation of their appearance
>roughly decide the thrust of the narrative
>start adding details to the setting, minor characters
>relate each detail to an event, and to the protagonist
>end up with big list of events
>arrange into a chronological order
>turn into outline

[Anonymous No.16179866]

>>16179811
Here's the link to it. I've been thinking of posting it on Quotev or Scribblehub once I'm done with this arc.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/31062/saga-of-the-cosmic-heroes

[Anonymous No.16179933]

>>16164245
No, it visualizes what having a stroke is like by coincidence though.

[Anonymous No.16180026]

>>16176469
>>16178731
Thanks bros, guess I was just worrying about nothing. I got overly infatuated with the idea of the reader's personal environment enhancing the experience. Thinking about it closer, I wouldn't be able to control post-release readers' timing anyway, so maybe it really was a dumb thing to get hung up on.

>I'm more concerned about you even considering to release it right after completing it
Don't worry bro, it's not my first time, the process is already pretty familiar to me. The draft is completed and I scheduled 4-5 months to editing. I've made no promises on the release date either, so if it takes longer, then it takes what it takes.

[Anonymous No.16180104]

>>16178028
Use a keyboard, or a pen if you prefer

[Anonymous No.16180112]

>>16180026
>The draft is completed and I scheduled 4-5 months to editing. I've made no promises on the release date either, so if it takes longer, then it takes what it takes.
Based. And good luck, mate.

[Anonymous No.16180199]

>>16178749
>Imagine how dumb "how do I write male characters" would sound
From a woman - not at all.
It's harder to write opposite sex.
>And what does this shit even mean?
A woman who is feminine and not masculine.
Are you autistic?

[Anonymous No.16180216]

>>16179343
Fucking... what are you on about dude
I asked a simple question and you went on a rant about... Bechdel test? I don't even know
Thanks for a useless blanket of text that doesn't suggest anything other than unsure, inconfident ramblings
>impact on the plot
No
>particular traits
No
>read some pop-sci
If only someone would recommend any oh boy
>Maybe one of them ends up
I don't need your story ideas, I asked a simple question

How to write a feminine woman as a male writer

[Anonymous No.16180248]

>>16180199
>It's harder to write opposite sex.
It really isn't. Writing people that have completely different thought patterns is, say a child or a genius. Writing a basic ass adult male/female is pretty basic.
>A woman who is feminine and not masculine.
So a basic woman, why even specify it?

[Anonymous No.16180794]

>>16178028
>>16180216
I'll answer your question
>Woman
You're basically already a woman
>Feminine
You're more than feminine. There is not an ounce of testosterone in your body.
So basically just write yourself. In fact you should transition. Send proof by posting thighs.