/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16089282]

Impossible to refute.

[Anonymous No.16089295]

>water is wet

imposble to refut

[Anonymous No.16089297]

>>16089282
I will have to disagree.

[Anonymous No.16089301]

>attributing a character's POV to the writer

[Anonymous No.16089302]

Refutation is a meme.

[Anonymous No.16089304]

Zizek refutes it perfectly in 2 minutes and offers a totally different point of view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn4ZIr1SZYc

[Anonymous No.16089345]

>what is 11 september, the subsequent invasion of Iraq, and the subsequent rise of ISIS

[Anonymous No.16089348]

>>16089304
sniff

[Anonymous No.16089368]

>>16089304
He actually makes a very good point in the first half of the video. But both arguments are flawed for a multitude of reasons.

[Anonymous No.16089370]

>>16089345
>>16089304

>they really think that mentioning crimes committed by servants of literal demon that is Allah and his pedo warlord Mohammad refutes Dosto's point
Filtered

[Anonymous No.16089389]

>>16089282
>Everything is permitted
Well, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.16089399]

>>16089389
>>16089282

The problem with this is the word "Permission".

[Anonymous No.16089411]

>>16089389
no dipshit. it isn't. people are biologically moral by nature. religion is what creates fucking psychos. you're telling me the only thing holding you back from raping and looting villages is big sky daddy? get the fuck out of here. religious sickos should be in insane asylums.

[Anonymous No.16089418]

>>16089411
wow dubs

[Anonymous No.16089423]

>>16089304
>nuh uh, it's actually the other way around!

[Anonymous No.16089425]

>>16089411
>people are biologically moral by nature.
LMAO

[I No.16089426]

>>16089282
if there's god everything is permitted

[Anonymous No.16089427]

>>16089411
Read Hobbes

[Anonymous No.16089431]

>>16089411
Holy this is the perfect example of midwit idiocy

[Anonymous No.16089434]

>>16089411
>people are biologically moral by nature.

[Anonymous No.16089439]

>>16089411
>people are biologically moral by nature
based fucking retard

be my stepping stone

[Anonymous No.16089443]

>>16089282
>imagine looking at the world and pretending everything is not permitted
Everything appears to be permitted so I guess there is no God then.

Fuck you Dosto, you just made me an atheist.

[Anonymous No.16089446]

>>16089282
Even if there is God, everything is permitted

[Anonymous No.16089448]

>>16089370
>muh no true Scotsman, muh REAL worship of God has never been tried
Pic very related

[Anonymous No.16089453]

>>16089304
Dostoevsky did say that in the Brothers Karamazov. Anyway, that guy is a retard

[Anonymous No.16089460]

>2020
>this fucking vitriol by christcuck sociopaths
fuck this board. you fucking ruined it.

[Anonymous No.16089462]

Jesus was only thirty-three years of age, and he fell three times while he was carrying the cross - the cross was so heavy. And naturally, if it becomes the fashion that everybody has to carry his cross, you will see that people will be carrying heavier and heavier crosses, heavier than everybody else! You will feel embarrassed if you are carrying a small cross - are you childish or what? A heavy cross is needed so that you fall on the road many times and have many fractures_.

But Christianity is masochistic. It does not know anything about enjoying life. It knows only about sacrificing life - sacrificing for some stupid fiction. It knows nothing of singing and dancing and celebration.

You say, "I love Dostoevsky and all his works have been of immense value to me. But now I feel there is a depth of sadness in him, which he seems to stop - as if something of the opposite is missing."

There is not only sadness in him, there is absolutely suicidal instinct; he is tired and bored with life itself. In his best book, Brothers Karamazov, one of the characters, Ivan Karamazov, makes a very significant statement. Perhaps Dostoevsky himself is speaking through him.

Ivan Karamazov says, "If there is a God and I meet him, I am going to return his ticket and ask him, 'Why did you send me life without asking me? What right do you have? I want to return the ticket to you.'" This is a suicidal instinct.

He lived very miserably and has always written that existence has no meaning, that it has no significance, that it is accidental, that there is nothing to find - no truth, no love, no joy. All his conclusions are wrong. But the man was tremendously capable, a great genius. Even if he writes things which are wrong, he writes with such art and such beauty that millions of people have been influenced by him - just like you, Jivan Mada.

The danger is: the words can be beautiful and the message can be poison, pure poison. His insights are deep - but they are always deep - to find more suffering in life, more misery in life. He is determined in all his works to prove that life is an exercise of utter futility. He influenced the contemporary philosophical movement of existentialism - he became a pioneer.

I also love him, but I also feel sad and sorry for him. He was a man who could have danced, who could have loved, who could have lived with tremendous totality and intensity. But he served death rather than life. Read him - there is nothing better to read - but remember you are reading a psychopath, a man who is deeply sick, incurably sick.

His whole work is just a dark night which knows no dawn.

[Anonymous No.16089483]

>>16089345
>based
>Christians serving Jews
>based

[Anonymous No.16089484]

Verkovensky junior/kirrilov, Ivan/Dmitri Karamazov, and the dad from the adolescent who’s name escapes me all say this to some degree but if you think Dosto wrote them to be agreed with you probably haven’t read his works and you certainly didn’t understand them.

[Anonymous No.16089493]

>>16089411
>Most popular modern religions teach their respective civilizations on which morals they should follow. (That is literally the purpose of religious books).
>Morals differ by religion substantially. Which leads us to conclude that they are not and cannot be absolute.
>Moral values are nothing more than an abstract contract within a community in order to ensure the individual's survival in the long run.

Refute this.

[Anonymous No.16089499]

>>16089345
Isis rose because of Gaddafis fall not 9/11.

[Anonymous No.16089507]

>>16089493
non-whites aren't people

next

[Anonymous No.16089538]

>>16089493
people are good and are moral. the morals are different because religion brainwashes people. that's why atheists aren't going around raping your mother. fuckin dumbass mental gymnastics you have. just look around you and you'll know you're wrong.

[Anonymous No.16089552]

>>16089282
>nothing is true, everything is permitted

This was a warning, not a rule, notice the comma

[Anonymous No.16089559]

>>16089499
ISIS is Iraqi former al-Qaeda. They split over jurisdiction in Syria

[Anonymous No.16089561]

>>16089538
>pretty sure Ed Kemper, Ted Bundy and most serial killers were atheist

[Anonymous No.16089572]

>>16089282
the electric chair will refute you

[Anonymous No.16089584]

>>16089561
Ignore the ">"

[Anonymous No.16089588]

>>16089538
> just look around you and you'll know you're wrong.
I looked around and everything looks the same as before.
But after looking at your post, I couldn't help it but to point out a couple of fallacies in your argument.

>people are good and are moral.
Lowering myself to your definitions of "good an moral", could you then please explain to us why there are bad and immoral people/actions?

>that's why atheists aren't going around raping your mother.
Are you telling me that atheists are incapable or raping?

[Anonymous No.16089628]

Permitted? Who is permitting things?

[Anonymous No.16089653]

>>16089628
God, apparently

[Anonymous No.16089675]

>>16089434
Most people

[Anonymous No.16089708]

>>16089675
Please define "Most people".

[Anonymous No.16089711]

>>16089572
Only of you get caught doing the thing that is socially condemnable, that doesn't really matter in terms of what's actually worth condemnation.

[Anonymous No.16089728]

>>16089538
>the morals are different because religion brainwashes people
And yet your own "morals" are based on your geopolitical/religious locations which is ironic to say the least.

[Anonymous No.16089752]

>>16089282
False. Even when you finally realize your pretend authority doesn't exist, the real authorities still exist. Rest assured that the State and its police force will never permit you to act freely.

[Anonymous No.16089760]

>>16089370
>literal demon that is Allah
What gods do you believe in, if not the Abrahamic one?

[Anonymous No.16089777]

>>16089425
>>16089427
>>16089434
>>16089431
>>16089439
Get thee to an insane asylum, cumguzzlers.

[Anonymous No.16089789]

>>16089777
>777
Wait what?

[Anonymous No.16089810]

>>16089282
why would the lack of god excuse and allow you to behave like an asshole and do harm to others?

[Anonymous No.16089812]

>>16089653
But if he doesn't exist, how can he permit anything?

[Anonymous No.16089813]

>>16089304
"If there is a God, then everything is permitted."
>followed by religious people doing bad things, which religious people don't deny are bad
Except that literally every single ideology that claims there is a God also claims that God has deemed certain things to not be permitted.
Literally just the 10 Commandments. Or any other fucking religious law in existence.

Imagine being this fucking dumb.
Holy shit.
Like at what point do I just assume all atheists are just being dishonest?

[Anonymous No.16089832]

>>16089810
You tell me.

[Anonymous No.16089859]

>>16089810
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxiAikEk2vU&list=PLoE4IYBxWCoTiLWUoRaLvnCWRAKB_HOqN&index=141&t=0s

[Anonymous No.16089864]

>>16089789
God has spoken.

[Anonymous No.16089888]

>>16089282
And if that is the case, so what? Is that an argument for God out of fear? Anything possible IS permitted, nothing is going to stop you.

[Anonymous No.16090086]

>>16089813
>Except that literally every single ideology that claims there is a God also claims that God has deemed certain things to not be permitted.
In your dreams, cockrider.

[Anonymous No.16090103]

>>16090086
>this is the height of atheist philosophical thought
no u

[Anonymous No.16090135]

>>16089282
it is not an argument, hence there is nothing to refute, correct

[Anonymous No.16090153]

>>16090103
t. never studied religion beyond his own inbred version of Christianity.

[Anonymous No.16090158]

16090153
no u

[Anonymous No.16090195]

>>16089282
Or
>If there is a god, everything is permitted if done for him

[Anonymous No.16090204]

>>16089813
>Except that literally every single ideology that claims there is a God also claims that God has deemed certain things to not be permitted.
Yeah, the problem is all those forbidden things can still be done if they align with "God's will". Thou shall not kill unless it's muslims or heretics or whatever. You get the point

[Anonymous No.16090232]

>>16090204
>conflating killing with murdering
No surprise coming from someone who conflates objective morality with subjective morality.

[Anonymous No.16090242]

>>16089282

A thing is not a person?

[Anonymous No.16090610]

>>16090204
So in other words, you’re not permitted to kill if it doesn’t align with God’s will. You’re also not permitted to blaspheme, have gay sex, etc.

Zizek doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

[Anonymous No.16091041]

>>16089304

[Anonymous No.16091100]

>>16089368
Reasons you naturally won't provide, pseud

[Anonymous No.16091112]

>>16091100
I thought you were intelligent enough to figure it out yourself.
I guess I was wrong.

[Anonymous No.16091169]

>>16089282
Everything IS permitted. However there are still laws of cause and effect. You reap what you sow, and you pay for everything you get in one way or another

[Anonymous No.16091819]

>>16089411
>people are just animals
>people are biologically moral by nature
>followed by a flurry of strawmans and ad hominems

Atheists say the darnedest things.

[Anonymous No.16092161]

>>16089282
Well, I don't permit.

[Anonymous No.16092986]

Lmao moralfags starting to talk about morals here?
Dude I rape my horse anally with no condom literally every day
Talk about morals and shit somewhere else, nigger

[Anonymous No.16093027]

>>16091819
>>people are biologically moral by nature
This is a partially true statement. Look into it. Our ethics are not derived purely from reason and even less so from religion, it is infact a biological imperative.

[Anonymous No.16093100]

>>16089301
My first thought too lol, I'm pretty sure that was Ivan or Alyosha mocking Ivan i.e. Dostoevsky refuting that very idea

Fuckin brainlets man

[Anonymous No.16093131]

>>16093027
seems pretty obvious to me. Most of it falls under kin selection and reciprocal altruism. Though you can abstract morality beyond those biological imperatives I suppose.

[Anonymous No.16093132]

>>16093027
see >>16089493

[Anonymous No.16093151]

>>16093027
No. It is a wholly false statement.
All of the human experience is a testament to the fallen nature of man.

[Anonymous No.16093179]

>>16093027
I agree that religion plays no part. It's just a means to an end. Fear is a great tool to enforce certain rules.

I disagree completely that they are a biological imperative. Without ever living in a community, morals become meaningless to men.

[Anonymous No.16093189]

>>16089282
ooohhh dostoevsky, he's so brilliant until he shows his inner christ cuck.

yes everything is permitted and thats a good thing for those who aren't cucked by ideology. deal with it.

[I No.16093194]

>>16089425
morality is just blindness. these moral people hate each other, they would not agree to live together, share same kitchen and bathroom, they are polite because of hate, to fuck off.

[Anonymous No.16093205]

>>16093179
Communities are themselves a biological imperative

[I No.16093212]

>>16091169
exactly. boys raped by priests just get their karma, they get what they deserved. life is a lesson.

[Anonymous No.16093228]

>>16089368
>>16089370
>>16089423
>>16089453
>>16089813
>>16091041
>getting filtered by the sniff master
OH NO NO NO, AHAHAHAHAH.
Christ cucks malding,

[Anonymous No.16093245]

>>16093189
>yes everything is permitted
If that were true the laws of reality wouldnt be stopping me from turning my waifu into a 3dpd through my sheer force of will

[Anonymous No.16093254]

>>16093205
I don't think you understand what both the word "biological" and "imperative" mean.

[I No.16093263]

>>16093245
you must be 10+ to post here

[Anonymous No.16093267]

>>16093254
humans have a biological imperative to form communities like the majority of mammals

[Anonymous No.16093268]

>>16093245
it's permitted to not have that permitted. You can change that. but thats far beyond your ken.

[Anonymous No.16093270]

>>16093212
Not op but correct. The sins of the father carry onto the son. If someone leaves their child with a pedo (no mater what the pedos profession is) the child effectively deserves what happens. Believe in god or not, the fact is the universe is just and perfect by definition, for any other definition of what is Good is madness

[Anonymous No.16093291]

16093228
no u

[Anonymous No.16093292]

>>16093263
>He cant even counter a coomer tier argument

>>16093268
>but thats far beyond your ken.
So still, clearly not everything is permitted then, cause i want to do it now without needing whoever's permission which they will only grant when I have whatever a ken is

[I No.16093294]

>>16092986
moralfags survive by molesting children, animals, dependants, slaves. no free man would want to be friend with moralfag.

[Anonymous No.16093296]

How can anything be permitted if we live in absolute determinism?

[Anonymous No.16093299]

>>16093292
you have permission to do it. You just have no idea how.

[Anonymous No.16093311]

>>16093294
expand upon this more. I am interested.

[Anonymous No.16093320]

>>16093267
Is language also a biological imperative for humans?

[Anonymous No.16093325]

>>16093299
Thats just a fancy way of saying I dont have permission unless I acquire said knowledge.

[Anonymous No.16093378]

>>16093325
permission from who? You are limited for no reason buddy, it's all absurdity. Your cuck mind thinks "i must be being punished by daddy" when in reality its just a stroke of bad luck. Its more comforting to think its god when in reality its nothing.

[Anonymous No.16093389]

>>16093320
yeah, children automatically create languages with each other if they have no way to communicate

[Anonymous No.16093432]

>>16089282
Except for the fact that we live in a organized society, therefore act according to the rules this one impose to the people.

[Anonymous No.16093510]

>>16093378
>it's all absurdity
Are your arguing cause and effect arnt real?
Call it "god", "sky daddy", "Laws of physics", etc. I dont care, its all the functionally the same thing. The point is there is someone/something limiting what you can and cant do and determining the consequences for your actions.

[Anonymous No.16093547]

>>16093151
That guy survived btw

[Anonymous No.16093637]

The characters that said went literally out of their mind

[Anonymous No.16095170]

>>16089282
everything is permitted, it's just a matter of how much I care and how much resistance I think I will face.

[Anonymous No.16095337]

>>16091041
Yet again, Ted states the obvious

[Anonymous No.16095705]

>>16093228
>sniff master
made me chuckle

[Anonymous No.16095731]

>>16089493
Yeah but I think you’re missing the point, which is that in order for people to follow a set of morals they need to believe in a religion, they need to believe in the immortality of the soul - otherwise they have no reason to abide by arbitrary moral rules if they cease to exist once they die. If life is ultimately meaningless and absurd than egoism is THE system of ethics to follow. And therefore religion is necessary as a foundation for morals.

[Anonymous No.16095838]

>>16093547
Not for lack of trying on the part of the random strangers that attempted to brutally bear him to death for no reason other than maybe his race.

[Anonymous No.16095854]

>>16089301

[Anonymous No.16095864]

>>16095731
Are you implying that atheists are immoral?

[Anonymous No.16095869]

>>16095864
Of course they are.

[Anonymous No.16095877]

>>16095869
Too obvious bait.

[Anonymous No.16095892]

>>16089282
With God everything is also permitted, punishment is just delayed, just as it is in reality. The threat of punishment does not stop people from acting, if they can ignore the threat.

[Anonymous No.16095907]

>>16095731
>which is that in order for people to follow a set of morals they need to believe in a religion
They don’t. Morals have nothing to do with religion. Religion It's just a means to an end. Fear is a great tool to enforce certain rules.

[Anonymous No.16095924]

>>16095869
If there is only one God and religions around the world can’t even agree on this, then you must be implying that your religion alone is the moral one, correct? Because moral values differ by religion.

[Anonymous No.16096363]

>>16089282
Yes.

[Anonymous No.16096438]

Well.. yes