Can you counter this argument?

[Anonymous No.16006648]

I got this argument from the book by Mahatma Ghandi called The Moral Basis of Vegetarianism
Okay I'll start with 3 premises and then make a conclusion

>p1:
Humans have moral status because they have a certain trait.
(with moral status I mean we are morally required not to inflict enormous suffering upon and / or kill for relatively trivial reasons)
>p2:
If humans have moral status because they have a certain trait, then all beings with that certain trait have moral status.
>p3:
There is no trait absent in animals, which, if absent in a human, would cause the human not to have moral status.

>conclusion:
Animals have moral status, thus you are morally required to go vegan.

[Anonymous No.16006695]

I don't mind inflicting pain on others to survive.
The world is not just black and white.
Moralists can cope calling everything else inmoral or following the example of some and philosophy isn't meant to fix the world or theorize about how it should be but descriptive of how the world is and how to explain what happens in it.
Tldr: animals don't have/don't recognize their moral autonomy therefore they have no moral status as they lack a priori consciousness of right and wrong.

[Anonymous No.16006719]

>>16006695
What about humans who lack moral autonomy such as infants and the mentally disabled?

[Anonymous No.16006730]

>>16006648
Sure, I'll just accept your conclusion. Since killing animals is now immoral, that means all vegans are hypocrites because they value their own existence over the animals killed in crop production..

[Anonymous No.16006740]

>>16006648
>kill for relatively trivial reasons
There are the problem. Consooming the prey we are evolved to eat is not trivial. Vegans are not healthy. I know you're talking vegetarians but if they were serious they'd be vegans and I'd rather fight the steelman.

[Anonymous No.16006741]

>>16006719
Our species back them up.
Until i see a Caesar or something asking rights for monkeys then we'll have a conversation.

[Anonymous No.16006745]

>>16006648
>There is no trait absent in animals, which, if absent in a human, would cause the human not to have moral status.
uhhhh how about self-consciousness? language? opposable thumbs?
only a fucking low-IQ poo could take such erroneous, bullshit, conflated "logic" seriously
vegans and vegetarians, just kill yourselves. monkeys

[Anonymous No.16006820]

>>16006730
Luckily if more people went vegan we would have less crop production, because most of our crops being produced is to feed animals.

>>16006740
>evolved to eat
wrong, if you go down our evolutionary tree you see that only recently we've been incorporating animal products as a main part of our diets and there is ZERO scientific evidence to support that we need animal products.

>>16006745
>self consciousness
studies have been done to show that animals have self consciousness
>language
what about infants and mentally disabled
>opposable thumbs
What about humans without opposable thumbs

Zero arguments found, try again.

[Anonymous No.16006831]

>>16006820
>Luckily if more people went vegan we would have less crop production, because most of our crops being produced is to feed animals.
Not a refutation. Also a vegan lie.

[Anonymous No.16006839]

>>16006820
>wrong, if you go down our evolutionary tree you see that only recently we've been incorporating animal products as a main part of our diets and there is ZERO scientific evidence to support that we need animal products.
Hmm, I looked at my teeth and it seems you're wrong.

[Anonymous No.16006843]

>>16006648
No it's perfect

[Anonymous No.16006850]

>>16006831
You can't plant other foods there, you bred them to be a docile species incapable of living anywhere but a perfectly sterile environment so you can kill them, then there's pollution.

[Anonymous No.16006851]

>>16006648
>Mahatma Ghandi
Into the garbage it goes

[Anonymous No.16006855]

>>16006745
you can't fly, does that mean birds have the green light to kill humans for sport and pleasure? Now if you respond that they can't, you'll just out yourself as a might is right fag who has no business in these threads

>>16006695
But humans do recognize their moral autonomy, and you use this autonomy to... justify inflicting pain on others to survive like an animal? lol

[Anonymous No.16006858]

>>16006820
>studies have been done to show that animals have self consciousness
not in the hegelian sense of awareness of one's own mortality, retard

>what about infants and mentally disabled
infants learn language, retard. i can't think of a case where a human being is so mentally disabled that they can't understand some rudimentary form of language, either, besides people being vegetables. retard.

>What about humans without opposable thumbs
as with all these other mere exceptions you've pointed out, that doesn't diminish the universality of their humanity, you fucking retard

just fucking kill yourself you retarded vegan piece of shit

[Anonymous No.16006859]

>>16006839
Ever tried killing with your impressive canines?

[Anonymous No.16006868]

>>16006855
birds don't have sport you fucking retard. jesus christ. birds don't have morality, either. morality doesn't apply to fucking birds. jesus fucking christ, how fucking retarded can you fucking get?

[Anonymous No.16006871]

>>16006858
What does Hegelian have to do with this you fucking pseud? lol

So it's ethical to inflict pain on sentient beings that can't conceptualize their pain as pain?

[Anonymous No.16006875]

>>16006851
I just put that book in the OP so the jannies don't remove the thread, I have neither read or know what's in the book.

[Anonymous No.16006880]

>>16006859
Is this bs and terrible induction or statistics or fr?

[Anonymous No.16006883]

>>16006871
>What does Hegelian have to do with this you fucking pseud?
i was using the term "self-conscious" in a hegelian sense, you fucking retard.

>So it's ethical to inflict pain on sentient beings that can't conceptualize their pain as pain?
yes, it doesn't fucking matter you fucking retarded piece of shit. it wouldn't if someone started killing and eating vegetarians and vegans either, since you're so fucking retarded and so fucking hypocritical. fucking kill yourself

[Anonymous No.16006885]

>>16006875
>I just put that book in the OP so the jannies don't remove the thread, I have neither read or know what's in the book.
The absolute state of /lit/

[Anonymous No.16006895]

>>16006868
Anthropocentric values don't apply to non-human life. They just don't. You're being completely circular.

>>16006883
>yes, it doesn't matter you fucking piece of shit
Take your meds nigger

[Anonymous No.16006898]

>>16006730
That's like saying people who oppose murder are hypocrites given that they consume manufactured products and fatal industrial accidents inevitably happen.

[Anonymous No.16006906]

>>16006648
>Can you counter this argument?
You can't counter any argument. Everyone take's opinions opposite to theirs as an attack on their ego. There is no counter argument. There is no debate. Might as well be 2 retards smearing eachother in shit while they masturbate. Same effect. Didn't even bother reading your post.

[Anonymous No.16006908]

>>16006898
Please do tell me how much murder and slavery you're allowed to do and still be moral.

[Anonymous No.16006909]

>>16006648
>Humans have moral status because they have a certain trait.
What does "moral status" mean?
What does "certain trait" mean?

>If humans have moral status because they have a certain trait, then all beings with that certain trait have moral status.
Basic Aristotelian logic deems this to be incorrect.

>If A has B because of C, then D has B because of C.

No.

>There is no trait absent in animals, which, if absent in a human, would cause the human not to have moral status.
Again. This doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous No.16006911]

>>16006831
Those numbers are way off, or don't reflect US agriculture. Only 3% of the beef produced in the US is grass-fed.

[Anonymous No.16006915]

>>16006895
>Anthropocentric values don't apply to non-human life
that's what i fucking said you fucking retard. jesus fucking christ, you are actually retarded

> nigger
nice racism you fucking retard. were you fucking dropped on your fucking head as an infant? how the fuck is fucking possible to be so fucking stupid, jesus fucking christ

[Anonymous No.16006919]

>>16006908
It's this retarded meme argument again. Veganism isn't about ending suffering wholesale, this isn't Buddhist praxis. It's about taking steps to minimize your personal contribution. That's it. End of story.

[Anonymous No.16006928]

>>16006915
10 fucks in like 11 lines lmao, neck yourself faggot

[Anonymous No.16006930]

>>16006880
We are frugivores for real:
Humans closest living relative: chimpanzees
Chimps get 97% of their calories from plants
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/06/bonobos-join-chimps-closest-human-relatives
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/how-to-eat-like-a-chimpanzee/
Compare the antinomy of omnivores to frugivores:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
https://www.ajconline.org/article/0002-9149(90)90383-C/fulltext
https://www.pnas.org/content/97/25/13506.full

Take the red pill fren

[Anonymous No.16006937]

>>16006908
Take the vegan permaculture pill

[Anonymous No.16006942]

>>16006915
>fucking fuck you, you fucking racist fucker, FUCK!
mad

[Anonymous No.16006948]

>>16006648
spaghetti bolognese
that is all

[Anonymous No.16006953]

>>16006909
Definitions

H(x) means 'x is a human'
SNA(x) means 'x is a sentient non-human animal'
R(x) means 'we are moral required not to treat x in the ways that consuming animal products treats non-human animals; or x has non-trivial moral status'
T(x) means 'x is a trait'
P(x,y) means 'x has y'

In First Order Logic

(P1) ∃t ( Tt ∧ ∀x ( Hx ( Rx Pxt ) ) )

(P2) ∀t ( Tt ∧ ( ∀x ( Hx ( Rx Pxt ) ) ∀x ( Rx Pxt ) ) )

(P3) ∀x( SNAx ¬∃t ( Tt ∧ ¬Pxt ∧ ∀y ( Hy ( ¬Pyt ¬Ry ) ) ) )

or equivalently

(P3) ∀x( SNAx ∀t ( Tt ∧ ∀y ( Hy ( Ry Pyt ) ) Pxt ) )

Therefore (C) ∀x ( SNAx Rx )

Direct Translation

(P1) there exists t, such that t is a trait, and for all x, if x is a human, then x has R, if and only if x has t

(P2) for all t, t is a trait, and if for all x, if x is a human, then x has R if and only if x has t, then for all x, x has R if and only if x has t

(P3) for all x, if x is a sentient nonhuman animal, then there does not exist t, such that, t is a trait and, x lacks t, and for all y, if y is a human, then if y lacks t, then y does not have R

or equivalently

(P3) for all x, if x is a sentient non-human animal, then for all t, if t is a trait, and, for all y, if y is a human, then, if y has R then y has t, then x has t

Therefore (C) for all x, if x is a sentient nonhuman animal then x has R

[Anonymous No.16006952]

>>16006937
vegan more like vegay. more like megay.

[Anonymous No.16006963]

>>16006919
>Veganism isn't about ending suffering wholesale
Your original argument is that animals have moral status, and that is therefore immoral to exploit them. Now that you realize that you are doing exactly that, you want to insist that you are moral because you do "less" of it.
Congratulations on your hypocrisy.

[Anonymous No.16006966]

>>16006928
>>16006942
i swear i just lost like 60 IQ points by arguing with you, and i'm go out and buy a nice fat juicy fucking steak and it just to spite your vegetarian ass. i'd love to start hunting and killing my own meat and butchering and preparing it myself, too. fuck vegetarians and fuck vegans.

[Anonymous No.16006972]

>>16006966
>FUCK FUCK FUUUUUUUCK I'M FUCKING MAD AT YOU FUUUUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK

[Anonymous No.16006975]

>>16006966
lmao I'm not even vegan you faggot.

[Anonymous No.16006983]

>>16006966
no one cares

>>16006963
Tell me how a combine tractor "exploits" field mice lol. What happens during a harvest and what happens in these factory farms is not a difference in degree, but an actual, measurable difference in practice

[Anonymous No.16006996]

>>16006983
>pesticides are made by accident
stay ignorant lol

https://youtu.be/ovGHKr-NoqQ

[Anonymous No.16007008]

>>16006972
There is a fundamental difference between animal farming and plant farming. Animal farming RECUIRES the suffering and death of animals. Plant production does not. Because of this we should encourage better plant farming practices. By improving agricultural and production methods, we can reduce this nonessential harm to animals in plant food production. This improvement is of course in addition to avoiding causing harm to animals directly by eating them.

[Anonymous No.16007019]

Every time someone uses pseud logic their argument fall flat.

[Anonymous No.16007021]

>>16006648
Animals eat animals, therefore if the human moral status is as line one says, animals do not have that moral status because they kill animals do survive hence p3 is incorrect

animals don't have moral status.
yiour morality is dogshit
Gandhi told housewives to burn themselves
FUCK YOU

[Anonymous No.16007027]

>17 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to Aaron and to his sons, and to all the Israelites. Tell them this is what the Lord has commanded: 3 Any one of you Israelites might kill a bull, a lamb, or a goat. You might be in the camp or outside the camp. 4 It doesn’t matter; you must bring that animal to the entrance of the Meeting Tent. You must give a part of that animal as a gift to the Lord. You spilled blood, so you must take a gift to the Lord’s Holy Tent. If you don’t take part of the animal as a gift to the Lord, you must be separated from your people! 5 This rule is so that you will bring your fellowship offering to the Lord. You must bring any animal that you kill in the field to the Lord at the entrance of the Meeting Tent. Bring those animals to the priest. 6 Then the priest will throw their blood onto the Lord’s altar near the entrance of the Meeting Tent. And the priest will burn the fat from those animals on the altar as a sweet-smelling gift to the Lord. 7 In this way you will stop being unfaithful to me by offering sacrifices to your ‘goat gods.’ This law will continue forever.

>8 “Tell the people: Any citizen of Israel, traveler, or foreigner living among you might want to offer a burnt offering or some other sacrifice. 9 They must take the sacrifice to the entrance of the Meeting Tent and offer it to the Lord. Whoever does not do this will be separated from their people.

>10 “I will turn against those who eat blood whether they are citizens of Israel or foreigners living among you, I will separate them from their people. 11 This is because the life of the body is in the blood. I have told you that you must pour the blood on the altar to purify yourselves. It is the blood that makes a person pure. 12 That is why I am telling you Israelites and the foreigners living among you that you must not eat blood.

>13 “If any of you, whether Israelite or foreigner living among you, goes hunting and kills a wild animal or bird that you are allowed to eat, you must pour the blood of that animal on the ground and cover it with dirt. 14 This is because the life of every kind of animal is in its blood. So I give this command to the Israelites: Don’t eat meat that still has blood in it! Whoever eats blood must be separated from their people.

>15 “If any of you, whether Israelite or foreigner living among you, eats an animal that died by itself or was killed by some other animal, you will be unclean until evening. You must wash your clothes and bathe your whole body with water. 16 If you don’t wash your clothes and bathe your whole body, you will be responsible for your guilt.”

listen to the bible, don't listen to some low IQ biologically inferior east indian

[Anonymous No.16007028]

>>16007008
I don't care about any of that shit you homo. I'm not whatever guy you were arguing with. You're neurotic and obviously enraged. Take a actual break.

[Anonymous No.16007030]

>>16006953
But what is "moral status"?

What is "certain trait"?

[Anonymous No.16007031]

>>16007021
What about humans who lack moral agency or have (low) intelligence etc. such as the mentally disabled and infants, would it be justified to treat them in this way?

[Anonymous No.16007036]

>>16007021
based

[Anonymous No.16007039]

>>16006648
Veganism is a sign of low self-esteem. Plain and simple. And also a possible sign of sociopathy.

[Anonymous No.16007044]

>>16007008
Translation:
>billions of animals die to plant agriculture but they don't count lol

[Anonymous No.16007045]

>>16007031
cannibalism is fine by me

[Anonymous No.16007046]

>>16006996

It's silly, I can just easily say "I refuse to contribute to the exploitation of animal bodies for profit" and your argument dissolves into the ether. Even if refusing to contribute to the immorality of factory farming doesn't absolve me of my responsibility for contributing to immorality of the agricultural system, it's better one than two, anyways. And even then, I can take steps to be self-sufficient.

If I was? What the fuck would you have left to say? Veganism is only valid if it dissolves the universe back into the bliss of the primordial One? Yeah, poopoo fucking peepee, that's what I thought.

[Anonymous No.16007051]

>>16007039
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.16007064]

>>16007044
Yes, as an INDIRECT consequence of plant farming you goof

>>16007039
lol the absolute fucking STATE

[Anonymous No.16007074]

>>16007030
All that is necessary here is to convince one's interlocutor that humans who have non-trivial moral status have that status in virtue of some trait that they possess - where again "the trait" can be a set of more particular traits, some of which may be sufficient but not necessary for non-trivial moral status. It is not necessary at this stage to specify what trait this is. But the following are examples of what an interlocutor may take the non-trivial-moral-status conferring trait to be: sentience, or the ability to experience pleasure or enjoyment and pain or suffering; the potential to become sentient; high intellectual ability; rational agency, or being able to deliberate about and act for what one takes to be good reasons; and moral agency, or the ability to act for moral reasons and owe moral consideration to others. Note that for this trait to be the full explanation of the non-trivial moral status of the humans that one's interlocutor thinks have non-trivial moral status, the trait is going to have to be present in all but only all of these humans.

[Anonymous No.16007076]

>16006953
>wojak
>retarded definitions
>failing junior high logic

[Anonymous No.16007084]

>>16007046
>>16007064
>killing animals for food is moral
Good point. I agree.

[Anonymous No.16007089]

>>16007031
irrelevant argument
The suggestion that people eat animals because of moral culpability is purely absurd. I refuted the argument even after I entertained its presence

[Anonymous No.16007090]

>>16007084
Nooo not my tendierinos lol

[Anonymous No.16007092]

>>16007064
If I wiped with my hands, didn't wash them, then prepared your food with said hands, would you care about the INDIRECT consequence, being my filthy half digested corn feces getting smeared all over your meal?

[Anonymous No.16007093]

>>16007084
thank god for putting animals on this earth for us to eat!

[Anonymous No.16007094]

>>16006730

What do the animals eat in the animal industry?
They dont get that fat just by breathing. They eat so much fucking food for so little meat.

So eat meat or not the same amount of crops are going to be harvested (even more if you eat meat).

The fact is that humans need food to live. Veganism is about reducing unnecessary suffering. Not about about necessary suffering.

Refuted. Just like that

[Anonymous No.16007097]

>>16007044
>he doesn't know that honey bee farming is the main reason bees are dying
You are so blue pilled, wake up NEO, you are in a simulation:
https://youtu.be/clMNw_VO1xo

[Anonymous No.16007105]

>>16007039
>a possible sign of sociopathy.
true. all the vegetarians and vegans i know treat other people like trash and think they're better than everyone while harbouring desire for revenge.
vegetarianism/veganism is in essence slave morality and conceals ressentiment and the desire for revenge

[Anonymous No.16007108]

>>16007092
>factory farms are morally equivalent to using pesticides

lol

[Anonymous No.16007111]

>>16007108
Didn't even say any of that faggot.

[Anonymous No.16007115]

>>16007105
there's the slave morality faggot, right on fucking cue. lol everytime. obeying my craving for tendies makes me a master, I read it in Nietzsche lol. Do you get an alert on your phone?

[Anonymous No.16007117]

>>16007074
I can accept p1, but p2 does not follow logically from that.

[Anonymous No.16007119]

I'm a vegan. I don't eat animals because love for animals is one characteristic of my own personal virtue. If veganism is not something you agree with, i can't stop you from eating animals, as much as I would like to.

[Anonymous No.16007126]

based vegan fren

[Anonymous No.16007128]

>>16007051
The citation is right here inside my underwear, bitch. Come and grab it.

[Anonymous No.16007131]

>>16007111
kek so what are your moral convictions? WHAT? you're sitting here and not donating your salary to relief efforts in Africa? Then you're not allowed to hold them lmao

[Anonymous No.16007136]

>>16007119
>as much as I would like to.
Control freak faggot. Go be a fucking jannie or some shit.

[Anonymous No.16007141]

>>16007094
Next time read the thread before using reddit arguments that have already been debunked, anemic retard. >>16006831

>>16007097
Honey is a by-product of pollination. If you buy any crop that's been pollinated, you support the honey industry by breeding bees into a life of torture and slavery.

[Anonymous No.16007147]

>>16006648
>There is no trait absent in animals, which, if absent in a human, would cause the human not to have moral status.
How about humanity?

[Anonymous No.16007148]

>>16007131
I don't have any "moral convictions" and neither do you or anyone else for that matter. You want attention. Everyone applies their "morality" as they see fit, depending on the situation. It changes on a whim.

[Anonymous No.16007152]

>>16007117
If having the trait is the full explanation non-trivial moral status and why humans have it when they do, then possession of the trait must give non-trivial moral status to other beings that have the trait. To think otherwise would be to embrace a double-standard as arbitrary as that involved in thinking that traits that give moral status to members of one ethnicity or sex fail to give the same moral status to members of another ethnicity or sex, even when the traits are just as present in both cases.

[Anonymous No.16007160]

>>16007148
So you're just a bugman swaying in the wind? Go eat your tendies and shut the fuck up then you fucking trash

[Anonymous No.16007169]

>>16007147
kek

[Anonymous No.16007173]

>>16007160
>So you're just a bugman swaying in the wind
Nice projection. The only reason you go around spouting your "moral convictions" is because you don't even live by them yourself and want to force them on others so you don't feel so totally pathetic.

[Anonymous No.16007176]

>>16007131
>you're not allowed to have moral convictions if you don't donate to charity, which does nothing to solve real problems

[Anonymous No.16007179]

>>16007141
>doesn't know that honey bees are extremely bad add pollination, because the pollen tend to go back to the hive for maximum honey production
>doesn't know there are thousands of bee species all being driven out due to the honey bee
Welcome to /lit/

[Anonymous No.16007183]

>>16007176
completely missed the point retard

>>16007173
>effeminate psychological projection

you really are all the same.

[Anonymous No.16007184]

>>16007152
>then possession of the trait must give non-trivial moral status to other beings that have the trait.
Possibly, but the possession of the "trait" has not been established in any logical way.

I touched on this lack of self-esteem earlier. Vegans and vegetarians see their lives on the same level as the life of a chicken. This is called mental illness.

[Anonymous No.16007198]

>>16007179
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/07/honeybees-deaths-almonds-hives-aoe
Meanwhile, vegans:
>who cares lol!

[Anonymous No.16007203]

>>16007184
>Vegans and vegetarians see their lives on the same level as the life of a chicken

No, they don't you fucking aspie they acknowledge their identity with all the life that they share this planet with. Live, and let live, but faggots like you want your hot pocketsb

[Anonymous No.16007206]

>>16007183
If you had any moral convictions you'd plow a truck into "muh factory farms" but you don't, because you're a faggot, and you don't actually believe in anything you say. Under threat of violence you would fold like a house of cards and abandon all your "beliefs" you absolute total fuckup.

[Anonymous No.16007214]

>>16007206
>more effeminate psychological projections

[Anonymous No.16007223]

>>16007214
>if I call him effeminate enough times bad man goes away

[Anonymous No.16007226]

>>16007184
>same level
No,
They are sentient beings and have moral status. Simple as that. You are fucking disingenuous
>see their lives on the same level as the life of a chicken
How the fuck do you reach this conclusion?

>but the possession of the "trait" has not been established in any logical way.
Didn't you say you accepted p1, what gives humans moral value?

[Anonymous No.16007227]

>>16007183
>completely missed the point retard
>it's your fault I made a poorly worded statement and couldn't get my point across

[Anonymous No.16007228]

>>16007223
>if I psychologically profile another shitposter maybe someone will confuse it for an argument

And a soijak, too. Pottery

[Anonymous No.16007237]

>>16007203

[Anonymous No.16007240]

>>16007227
kek, keep trying bro, I thought all that KFC was supposed to give you a galaxy brain?

[Anonymous No.16007242]

>>16007226
>They are sentient beings and have moral status.
You still haven't named the trait that makes it acceptable for vegans to exploit and murder "less" animals.

[Anonymous No.16007244]

>>16006648
This is like an even worse version of the ontological argument, I think it's fair to say the traits which separate humans from animals are specifically those traits (i.e. sentience) which make us abhor the killing of humans. By definition, these traits cannot be actually held by animals, but if they could, most would refrain from killing them unless absolutely necessary. This is also why people generally feel strongly about not eating or needlessly killing highly intelligent animals.

[Anonymous No.16007247]

>>16007228
>no u
cope harder you fucking loser

[Anonymous No.16007251]

>>16007198
vegetarians/vegans don't care about human rights

[Anonymous No.16007252]

>>16007226
>Didn't you say you accepted p1, what gives humans moral value?
Yes.

I meant to say that the possession of the "trait" by non-humans had not been established in a logical way, nor can it.

[Anonymous No.16007261]

>>16006695
our consciousness of right and wrong is imaginary which means we are below the other animals

[Anonymous No.16007262]

Why Vegan?
>“Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose.”

ETHICS
We consider ourselves a nation of animal lovers, they are our friends, companions and even members of our families. However, as a nation we also slaughter one billion land animals every year as well as billions of marine animals, for no necessary reason.
We are born into societies and cultures that condition us from birth into believing that animal products are normal, natural and necessary. Our societies dictate many philosophies and ideologies that we carry with us through life and in the case of animals, we are told to love some - and eat others. We have normalised behaviour that we would normally consider to be horrific, using excuses and ingrained justifications to hide behind the reality of our immoral actions.
We are indoctrinated with advertising and marketing, further reinforcing the idea of separation and segregation between species, with decades of devaluing and reducing the lives of farm animals to nothing more than commodities for human disposal. In many respects we are vulnerable to the power society holds over us, but at what point do we choose to look past what we are told and seek the truth?
Animals suffer, just like us. They feel a vast spectrum of emotions including love, joy, grief, fear and pain. The fact that animals experience pain means that they have an innate preference to avoid it. Therefore it is our moral obligation to protect them from unnecessary suffering - however we have normalised exploiting them in the trillions, profiting from their gentleness and their innocence.
The suffering that occurs in order to produce animal products is immense - and it is all unnecessary. The consumption of animal products has no necessity in the human diet and is in fact massively detrimental to our health and life longevity. Moving from an animal-based diet to a vegan diet is directly opposing animal cruelty and oppression. Every purchase we make is a vote for the type of world that we want to live in, therefore when we buy animal products, or products tested on them - we are saying that we are comfortable living in a world that inflicts violence upon animals. However when we choose the vegan option, we are stating that we oppose animal cruelty and wish to live in a compassionate, non-violent world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvtVkNofcq8

[Anonymous No.16007266]

>>16007242
man, what a noxious fucking retard. do you know what the logical conclusion to your line of argument is? hurr durr what makes it acceptable for vegans to continue living if the digestion of their food depends on the deaths of millions of bacteria

[Anonymous No.16007267]

>>16007240
I don't eat gayfc. You're just a total fucking midwit who most likely only just recently discovered veganism. This is fucking gay. If you're a grown man, just know that you're going through a flaky phase like a highschool girl.

[Anonymous No.16007273]

>>16007267
Yet ANOTHER faggot psychoanalysis of a cartoon on your head.

[Anonymous No.16007274]

>>16006880
pure rainbow ideology

[Anonymous No.16007281]

>>16007273
Don't need psychoanalysis to notice you're a faggot acting like a woman on her cycle.

[Anonymous No.16007289]

>>16007281
Seethe like your clogged arteries, faggot

[Anonymous No.16007290]

>>16007266
see >>16007084

[Anonymous No.16007298]

>>16007289
I barely even eat any meat to begin with. Cope harder.

[Anonymous No.16007300]

>>16007262
ENVIRONMENT
Livestock systems currently cover 45% of the total land on earth, with this in mind it is not surprising that animal agriculture is the leading cause of the destruction of the planet. Raising animals for meat, dairy and eggs requires a huge amount of energy, in fact more greenhouse gas emissions are produced from just animal agriculture than all of the transportation industry combined.
Animal agriculture is also responsible for causing the largest mass species extinction of the past 65 million years (which we are currently in) - and by the year 2048 we could see fishless oceans. Although eating meat, dairy and eggs is deemed an acceptable choice by society’s standards, by doing so we are paying for one of the leading causes of ocean dead zones, water pollution, habitat destruction, top soil erosion, species extinction and greenhouse gas emissions.
Due to all of these contributing factors we are fast approaching a vast shift in our planet’s climate, something that will impact every living being on earth. It doesn’t have to be this way, one person CAN make a difference. Each day, a person who eats a vegan diet saves 1,100 gallons of water, 45 pounds of grain, 30 sq ft of forested land and 20 lbs CO2 equivalent.
https://youtu.be/thuHNqEQMIs

HEALTH
There are many common misconceptions surrounding the necessity of animal products for a healthy diet, many coming from animal agriculture propaganda. But do we really need animal products to be healthy, or do they inhibit a healthy body and mind?
One of the biggest health concerns of consuming animal products is the extensively documented associations that they have with a myriad of unnecessary and preventable diseases including heart disease, cancer, strokes, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, kidney failure, high cholesterol, autoimmune disease and osteoporosis. In fact consuming animal products has been linked to 15 of the top 16 killers of people in the west, however by consuming a plant-based diet not only are you able to prevent these diseases but in many cases reverse them as well.
Although the meat, dairy and egg industries tell us that animal products contain essential nutrients that we cannot find elsewhere, this simply isn't true as every nutrient that the human body needs to survive and thrive, can be found in abundance in the plant kingdom.
https://youtu.be/X1QDkpUPiI8

[Anonymous No.16007305]

>>16007290
stupid image. you can be a vegan and still believe consumption is intrinsically immoral, and then work to reduce your consumption as far as is possible. you're playing a standard of moral perfection to veganism that I guarantee you're not applying to anything else, because it actually rustles your tendies

[Anonymous No.16007335]

>>16007305
>you can believe that something is immoral but still do it
finally you've admitted to your hypocrisy

[Anonymous No.16007348]

>>16007335
Kek doesn't even read the rest of the line. Fuck off you disingenuous nigger retard.

[Anonymous No.16007349]

>>16007305
>I believe something is wrong and will hold others to a standard that I cannot even follow myself

[Anonymous No.16007356]

>>16006648
Why bother making a moral argument for veganism when the health and ecological arguments are so much more convincing? There's no point in trying to create a system of ethics that applies to both animals and humans when you can just point to the evidence that shows people are eating way too much meat.
I wish more people were concerned with reforming the global food industry rather than acting holier than thou on the internet. Moralists don't change people's minds, they just piss them off.

[Anonymous No.16007357]

>>16007252
?????????????
That's what's being explored you dumbfuck, what is the trait? If we were to compare plants it could be nervous system, sentience, etc. Idk what you are saying

[Anonymous No.16007360]

>>16007349
Yes, I believe factory farming is wrong and I will hold others to the standard of not participating in it, a step I've made myself. You all right, faggot?

[Anonymous No.16007372]

Yawn
Fails to take into account possible degrees of "moral status", fails to even define "moral status", fails to indicate the consequences of "moral status" and why it is relevant in this case, fails to establish the accuracy of P1 and P3.

[Anonymous No.16007373]

>>16007360
>I believe factory farming is wrong
>factory farming
>vegan equivalent of "assault rifle"

[Anonymous No.16007376]

>>16007357
Did you not write "It is not necessary at this stage to specify what trait this is"?

[Anonymous No.16007381]

>>16007373
>akshually

Lmao is this what it's come to? All you groids are good for is language games, anyways. Wallow in the mud little piggie, wallow.

[Anonymous No.16007395]

>>16007360
You can boycott factory farming without being a vegan anon.

[Anonymous No.16007399]

>>16007381
What the fuck is a factory farm dipshit? Doesn't fucking exist. Where I live we have these things called "cattle farms". Cattle live on these "cattle farms" and graze in what we call "open fields" then get smashed overtop the head with a big hammer with a spike on it once they're ready for market. You watch too many cartoons.

[Anonymous No.16007401]

>>16006831
It's not the feed itself, it's the space that's used to grow the food.

[Anonymous No.16007407]

>>16007401
*to grow the feed

[Anonymous No.16007412]

>>16007399
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming

noxious faggot

>>16007395
You can, but I choose to take it all the way

[Anonymous No.16007413]

>>16007407
*to grow the sneed

[Anonymous No.16007415]

>>16007376
Yeah it isn't but I'm a different person, I'm just confused what you are confused about? Possession of trait?

[Anonymous No.16007434]

>>16006648
I am not opposed to society transitioning into a state where the consumption of living creatures is no longer practiced. HOWEVER I believe that such a state will only come about when there is sufficient cloning technology to recreate all forms of meat that humans currently consume without being attached to a full creature.

Until then, I feel no guilt whatsoever eating meat but I will gladly advocate for changing the methods of factory farming to make things better for the animals.

[Anonymous No.16007439]

>>16007412
>Intensive animal farming
Oh wow, it's almost like you made up "muh factory farms" and should have just called it what it actually is. No one supports this moron. What a fucking hero you are, standing up to the big factory farms by not purchasing their products, wow what a huge difference in their output that makes. Just buy from a local farmer like a normal person you neurotic moralistic spaztic.

[Anonymous No.16007453]

>>16007439
Lol just shut up you fucking faggot aspie, you're the only one taking this personally

[Anonymous No.16007473]

>>16007453
>you're the only one taking this personally
effeminate psychological projection

[Anonymous No.16007476]

>>16007473
I did what I did for myself and not for the external feedback mental women like you can't live without.

[Anonymous No.16007485]

>>16007476
>I did what I did for myself
>I believe factory farming is wrong and I will hold others to the standard of not participating in it

[Anonymous No.16007488]

>>16007439
>like you don't buy your meat from the supermarket and choose the more cheaper options
>like you don't buy mcdonnals, burger king or any other fast food
You try to make it seem like nobody is in favour of factory farming, but it's the MAIN source of meat production you absolute twat. The 'normal' person doesn't buy from a local farmer, a 'normal' person goes to the supermarket and looks what they have and buys whatever is affordable.
Also this thread hasn't even gone deep into the environmental problems of the animal industry, but with our diet we have today it is totally unrealistic that we get all our meat from free grazing animals, we simply have not enough space on our earth.

[Anonymous No.16007493]

>>16007476
>I did what I did for myself and not for the animals I say I did it for

[Anonymous No.16007499]

>>16006648
essentially i just need to not be a dawinist retard and then i win. he wasnt spiritual, he was a fucking kike lawyer scientist loser. i dont believe animals have a 'trait' or a soul or a conscious, they are unconscious, killing them is like ending sleep, they can finally rest in the end, when they remain as all things desire to be, as dirt

[Anonymous No.16007502]

>>16007488
>like you don't buy your meat from the supermarket and choose the more cheaper options
I don't.
>like you don't buy mcdonnals, burger king or any other fast food
I don't like estrogen in my burgers.
>MAIN source of meat production
Maybe in a third world shithole like america.

[Anonymous No.16007508]

>>16007485
Yes, I did what I did for my self and I will hold others to that same standard, of having the power to make a decision without the needing external justifications like "your abstinence needs to single-handedly collapse the meat industry or else you can't be a vegan posting in a vegan thread".

[Anonymous No.16007525]

>>16007499
>organisms with nervous systems are unconscious

The absolute state of muttoids

[Anonymous No.16007532]

>>16007508
You shouldn't hold anyone to the standards you impose on yourself you retard. They don't give a shit. They don't know you, or care about you, or anything you believe. You start spouting off this gay shit about "muh animuls" and they don't give a shit because you sound like an autist.

[Anonymous No.16007542]

>>16007502
>Maybe in a third world shithole like america.
Ironically it's probably the real third world countries that rely the least on factory farming, especially small villages and rural areas though.
Where are you from?

[Anonymous No.16007550]

>>16007532
How old are you? Be honest.

[Anonymous No.16007556]

>>16007550
Older than your mom faggot.

[Anonymous No.16007562]

>>16007556
Yawn and cringe. Have a good night.

[Anonymous No.16007567]

>>16007542
>Where are you from?
The real world.

[Anonymous No.16007575]

>>16007562
U 2 bby thx 4 the (You)s :p

[Old Man No.16007587]

>>16006648
I would, at first, argue that there is not one trait, but rather a combination of traits that give a being a moral status. If even one of those traits is absent, the being does not have a moral status. After all, if it were just one trait, like "being alive" or "feeling pain," we'd have to live absurdly, unless there are levels of moral status (otherwise you'd have to pick two dogs over your own child, or even just one dog).

>>16006719
They lack moral autonomy but they don't lack the capacity for moral autonomy. Had they not been born mentally disabled, they would have had moral autonomy or whatever that anon's talking about. Children will grow and mature into that capacity for moral thinking/autonomy.

>>16006820
>wrong, if you go down our evolutionary tree you see that only recently...
Yes, around that point we started domesticating and eating the damn things. Let me ask you, how recent is "recent?" 100 years ago? 1000? More?

>studies have been done to show that animals have self consciousness
Not in the same way humans do. Animals don't have existential crises. They don't wake up, thinking, "I am Ook. Today I will go find a bushel of bananas, and try to steal Eek's wife." No such thing

>>16006850
There are alternatives to factory farming, although that would decrease the amount of meat put out, which is fine because a great chunk of it is wasted anyway. If there were less waste and opulence, we'd make greater use of our food, like those Indian lads we killed a while ago

>>16006855
>But humans do recognize their moral autonomy
You do
>and you use this autonomy to... justify inflicting pain on others to survive like an animal? lol
Yes, because humans are animals, and there is no pressing reason to be vegan over a meat eater. Why does pain matter so much? Is it alright to painlessly murder someone if no one will grieve for them, not even you? The moral status matters, and animals have none, or have an inferior status.

>>16006859
Chimps are not frugivores, they eat meat as well. Humans are omnivores, so obviously we wouldn't have our mouths shaped like predatorial animals that live outside and hunt all their lives. Get real

>>16006930
The same types that tell us we should be more like the matriarchal bonobos that resolve all problems with sex (including the homosexual kind)?

>>16007031
No, because they are human, and being human is not an arbitrary trait, because only humans have the CAPACITY for moral reasoning, higher intelligence, and all that jazz.

>>16007090
noo not my moo cows and oink pigs. The problem is, you types only ever refer to factory farming, but you also have a problem with the less in-your-face killing of animals that farmers do when they raise grass-fed beef and the like. No chicks in grinders and chickens knee-deep in their own shit, no sensationalism there, eh?

>>16007226
>How the fuck do you reach this conclusion?
We must treat chickens as if they have the same moral status as humans, no?

[Anonymous No.16007598]

>>16007567
Way to avoid the question you dishonest fuck.

[Anonymous No.16007626]

>>16007598
>NOOOO YOU NEED TO TELL ME WHERE YOU LIVE SO I CAN MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY

[Anonymous No.16007646]

>>16007626
Continue

[Old Man No.16007679]

>>16007262
>animals suffer, just like us. They feel a vast spectrum of emotions including love, joy, grief, fear and pain.
Therefore, we should lobotomize them so that they do not feel pain, genetically modify them so that they produce the most meat possible, and dispose of them when they can no longer produce. Eventually, science will probably grow meat in vats so we won't be facing this issue any longer; then, the powers that be will have full dominion over what we ingest. Furthermore, I could merely argue that their suffering doesn't matter because they have no moral status. A painless, quick death is better because it's less messy and the meat will taste better because the animal wasn't scared. People that torture animals should be stopped because that's a sign that they lack empathy; they could kill a human in the future. Come up with another example for me to reconcile, please do, frog-poster.

>>16007266
Yes, so veganism's ethical position is absurd, not his implication. It's just that you are unwilling to see that.

>>16007356
Because when the health and ecological arguments fail, they always resort to the ethical. "My body is wasting away, and I feel like shit? That doesn't matter, you have to do it for the animals, and maybe you're doing Veganism wrong (No True Scotsman's fallacy- only Veganism that promotes health is real Veganism)."

>>16007434
That's right, goy, swallow your Hamburger pills and French Fry pills and wash it down with a nice Coca Cola pill. Don't ask us what we put in it, but it's 100% ethical and don't even think about raising your own animals so you at least know something about what went into what you're putting into your body.

>>16007525
If you are religious, then yes, they do not have souls. They are like machines, but how you treat them generally reflects on how you treat fellow humans, who actually have a moral status. This doesn't mean that killing animals makes you an evil or sadistic person (unless you revel in their pain or try to prolong it); it just makes you calloused, at most. Nothing to write home about

pic related is you holding your brain

[Anonymous No.16007803]

>>16007587
>multiple traits
doesn't disprove the argument
>Capacity of moral autonomy
Mentally ill people without moral autonomy don't have the capacity to it, you can't say if they didn't get born with mental illness. The mental illness is part of their being and the without is a different being
>there is no pressing reason to be vegan over a meat eater.
There are 3 Ethics, Environment and Health
>Chimps are not frugivores, they eat meat as well.
They eat 97% plants, the meat that they eat is dead animals they find. Opportunistic just like us.
>only humans have the CAPACITY for moral reasoning, higher intelligence, and all that jazz.
Imagine a hypothetical aliens finding our planet, the aliens consider themselves to be superior, maybe have developed some telepathic language etc. They start farming us for our meat. This is the stupidity of the human race.
>We must treat chickens as if they have the same moral status as humans, no?
Yeah, is that so hard? Doesn't make us equal though.
>>16007679
>People that torture animals should be stopped because that's a sign that they lack empathy
But killing not?? Isn't taking a life away, not one of the worst things you can do??

[Anonymous No.16007893]

>>16006930
Humans closest living relatives are chimpanzees, but that divergence happened 7-13 million years ago, with most estimates trending towards the older.

All the close relatives of homo sapiens sapiens are extinct. You cannot draw conclusions from crude chimp human comparisons about anything but what the LCA ate ten million years ago. Pandas have been around 7 million years, but the transition to herbivory took almost five million of those years. You might as well claim pandas should thus eat meat on the basis of their physical similarity the brown bear.

We know that Australopithecus, the genus from which Homo is descended, ate meat, and in fact, their adoption of simple Olduwan tools was likely in order to better scavenge corpses(especially to access marrow). By the latter portion of the genus existence, these tools were widespread, not just amongst human ancestors, but also sister groups like Panthropus.

2.6 million years ago, the ingenuity of human ancestors had already rendered the evolution of strong bite forces and sharp teeth meaningless. They had sharp rocks instead.

Indeed, it is several million years before the emergence of man that our ancestors became meat eaters, and this development likely spurred the development of human intelligence over the interceding years.

We also know that fire was first tamed at least 1.7 million years ago, and perhaps earlier. The Australopithecus genus did not manage this invention, but her more intelligent descendant, Homo, did.

Homo also had a smaller and more delicate mouth to go with this, indicating both that tough roots and other plant matter was being deemphasized in their diet compared to Australopithecus, and that our ancestors were figuring out how to cook.

Simultaneously, the upright and bipedal posture of early Homo(specifically ergaster, the first obligate bipedal ape), larger size, and smaller gut, all indicated a richer diet. While certainly edible plants always made up a sizable portion of this, scavenging and hunting animals is widely accepted to be a key contributor to the above changes.

Homo ergaster, and all Homo after, ate meat regularly.

Indeed, in homo erectus(of which ergaster is either a subspecies or direct ancestor, depending on who you ask), we have direct evidence of the hunting of large animals like elephants and cows. With homo erectus, 2 million years ago, man hunted. This is the beginning of the hunter-gatherer dichotomy that characterizes most pre-agricultural societies.

The idea that meat is not a natural and principal part of human diet is a demonstrable falsehood. You can choose not to eat meat for whatever reason you desire, but don't evangelize it with pseudoscientific nonsense.

[Anonymous No.16008038]

>p3:
There is no trait absent in plants, which, if absent in a human, would cause the human not to have moral status.

Here, I adjusted the argument a bit and proved that you shouldn't eat plants.

[Anonymous No.16008074]

>>16006648
>Moral status
This reminds me of a one Liz Harman from the Princeton department of philosophy...

[Anonymous No.16008080]

>>16006648
>we are morally required not to inflict enormous suffering upon and / or kill for relatively trivial reasons
Assertion

[Anonymous No.16008097]

>>16008038
Nervous system.

[Anonymous No.16008144]

>>16008097
That's clearly a backward reasoning to push your point "I want to prove that animals matter, but plants don't - I try to find the trait present in animals, but not in plants - I'll use the nervous system trait".
Otherwise you need to show why specifically nervous system and not other trait (wider or narrower) matters. Of course you can take it as an axiom, but then others may have different axioms.

[Anonymous No.16008153]

>Humans have moral status because they have a certain trait.
Yes, that trait is them being the same species as me.

[Anonymous No.16008162]

>b-but muh plants
pathetic. you don't care about plants. you are just a lazy fuck.

[Anonymous No.16008167]

>>16008144
A person or animal without a nervous system wouldn't feel pain, wouldn't be sentient, would not have a conscious experience. I would gladly rape, stab and eat a meatbag without nervous system.
Are you dumb?

[Anonymous No.16008173]

>>16006648
>in our neat water-swilled shambles a daily blood-bath is concealed from all who at their mid-day meal shall feast upon the limbs of murdered household animals dressed up beyond all recognition.
>Only the love that springs from pity, and carries its compassion to the utmost breaking of self-will, is the redeeming Christian Love, in which Faith and Hope are both included of a—Faith as the unwavering consciousness of that moral meaning of the world, confirmed by the most divine exemplar; Hope as the blessed sense of the impossibility of any cheating of this consciousness.
Veganism is evil and stupid, vegetarianism is good.

[Anonymous No.16008175]

>>16008162
You don't care about animals too, you just to want to shitpost about them on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.16008180]

went and bought and cooked some GROUND BEEF just to SPITE (you), OP. muahahahaha

mmmmmm , dead MURDERED animal flessssssshhhh

[Anonymous No.16008182]

>>16008175
kek no arguments. stop being lazy.

[Anonymous No.16008186]

>>16008167
Explain the video then:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLTcVNyOhUc

[Anonymous No.16008204]

>>16008182
Vegan BTFO again (like many times before).

[Anonymous No.16008211]

>>16006648
>From of old, amid the rage of robbery and blood-lust, it came to wise mens consciousness that the human race was suffering from a malady which necessarily kept it in progressive deterioration. Many a hint from observation of the natural man, as also dim half-legendary memories, had made them guess the primal nature of this man, and that his present state is therefore a degeneration. A mystery enwrapped Pythagoras, the preacher of vegetarianism; no philosopher since him has pondered on the essence of the world, without recurring to his teaching. Silent fellowships were founded, remote from turmoil of the world, to carry out this doctrine as a sanctification from sin and misery. Among the poorest and most distant from the world appeared the Saviour, no more to teach redemptionas path by precept, but example; his own flesh and blood he gave as last and highest expiation for all the sin of outpoured blood and slaughtered flesh, and offered his disciples wine and bread for each day's meal:—"Taste such alone, in memory of me." This the unique sacrament of the Christian faith; with its observance all the teaching of the Redeemer is fulfilled. As if with haunting pangs of conscience the Christian Church pursues this teaching, without ever being able to get it followed in its purity, although it very seriously should form the most intelligible core of Christianity.
>in our neat water-swilled shambles a daily blood-bath is concealed from all who at their mid-day meal shall feast upon the limbs of murdered household animals dressed up beyond all recognition.
>Only the love that springs from pity, and carries its compassion to the utmost breaking of self-will, is the redeeming Christian Love, in which Faith and Hope are both included of a—Faith as the unwavering consciousness of that moral meaning of the world, confirmed by the most divine exemplar; Hope as the blessed sense of the impossibility of any cheating of this consciousness.
Veganism is evil and stupid, vegetarianism is good.

[Anonymous No.16008222]

>>16008186
Plants can react to vibrations and chemical stimulus, but this isn't a conscious act, it's autonomic. However, we do know that birds, mammals and fish have well-developed nervous systems and pain receptors. Like us, they show pleasure and pain and they present comparable evidence of fear and well-being. Animals cry out in pain, they nurse wounded body parts, and they seek to avoid those who have hurt them in the past.

[Anonymous No.16008223]

>>16008180
>take THAT liberals, I just kissed another man in the name of Islam
>beat that
Literally just the same thing, you're making yourself look like a retard that doesn't even understand where he derives his morality, if not from compassion. And I am not against meat eating, though vegetarianism would be ideal, you're just a fool.

[Anonymous No.16008237]

>>16008223
whatever man i'm just enjoying some delicious DEAD MURDERED ANIMAL FLESH mmmmmmmmm so good and juicy

[Anonymous No.16008245]

>>16008223
>you're making yourself look like a retard that doesn't even understand where he derives his morality, if not from compassion

[Anonymous No.16008250]

>>16008223
>>16008245
NOOOO NOT THE HECKIN COWERINOS NOOOOOOO

[Anonymous No.16008256]

>>16008222
That's already a huge list of traits and they are already pretty different to the initial "nervous system" claim. So can we assume that having nervous system is not enough to be of moral status?
>Plants can react to vibrations and chemical stimulus, but this isn't a conscious act, it's autonomic.
So why that "react" should matter less than "pain" you were talking about? By the way, if human is unconscious, will you eat him? Remember, we are talking about definite trait again.

[Anonymous No.16008330]

>>16008256
No retard. Do you know what a nervous system is???
Maybe you should refresh your biology. Nervous system is a perfectly fine answer to reconcile why eating plants is okay.

[Anonymous No.16008351]

>>16008330
>Do you know what a nervous system is???
Supposedly it's a thing which is not necessary for the reaction shown at >>16008186 You'll have a trouble showing me why should I morally care about jellyfish, but not that plant. Maybe it's because you hardly even know what the nervous system is.

Also, to reiterate: will you eat an unconscious human?

[Anonymous No.16008371]

>>16008237
>DEAD MURDERED ANIMAL FLESH mmmmmmmmm so good and juicy
Yeah, alright, it tastes delicious what's your point? I ate some last night. But you're just acting like a literal retard, doing something wrong because what? "Le epic trolls".

Why do you even hate vegetarianism so much? Insecure about yourself lacking all thought on the subject? Seriously man get a life. Or is it that you sincerely "reject" compassion? In which case you're an utter willing degenerate who would kill a child unimportantly near as soon as he would a cow.

[Anonymous No.16008375]

>>16008371
i'd kill and eat you if it were legal, you worthless piece of shit

[Anonymous No.16008389]

>>16008371
>"Le epic trolls".
That would be OP.

[Anonymous No.16008405]

>>16006695
This is how I feel towards humans. It's ok for me to kill you because of your own ideology towards animals.

[Anonymous No.16008407]

>>16008351
>eat unconscious human
No
>nervous system
If they don't have a brain I don't care.

[Anonymous No.16008422]

>>16008407
>eat unconscious human
>No
So being conscious isn't relevant for whether you will eat someone or not?
>If they don't have a brain I don't care.
That's already a switch from the "nervous system" criterion.

[Anonymous No.16008581]

>>16006648

Didn'y he drink goat's milk? I don't think that's vegan, but then it doesn't really hurt the animal he got the goats milk from.

[Anonymous No.16008625]

You can state several faulty premises and make an illogical conclusion from it, but that does not prove anything. Don't use logic if you are unable to do that correctly.

[Anonymous No.16008757]

>>16006851
either you're an assblasted britisher still butthurt over your empire. or you're another fool who has been deceived by western whitewashing of gandhi as a progressive. no he wasn't, he was a devout hindu who hated european atheism and progressivism. he loved the caste system and traditional hindu practices.

[Anonymous No.16008769]

are vegan niggers gone from fit yet

[Anonymous No.16008842]

Reminder that it's impossible to refute a vegan, no matter what you tell them they will just say "but killing animals bad"

[Anonymous No.16008853]

>>16006648
>Ghandi
I cringe so goddamn hard whenever I see some western faggots circlejerking around this rapist pedophile fascist lap dog of colonialists piece of shit.
I will never take the arguments from such a pathetic person seriously.

[Anonymous No.16008932]

>There is no trait absent in animals, which, if absent in a human, would cause the human not to have moral status.
If that trait is "being human", then you can rephrase it as "humans who are not human don't have moral status". But that's nonsense because the set of humans who are not human is empty. You may as well start discussing whether the current king of France is bald.

[Anonymous No.16008969]

>>16008375
What an insecure cope.

>I.. i'd eat you!

>>16008389
Yes true enough, he did say he didn't read the book.