/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15984947]

Has anyone read How to be a Conservative, by Roger Scruton? It's pretty interesting, he talks about how conservativism recognizes the nation rather than religion is the ultimate identity and the state rather than church the ultimate arbitrator, whereas Islam is antagonist to western values because it rejects these important legacies of the Enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.15984955]

>>15984947
> Oh boy, can't wait to have a discussion related to the OP's question and not the image they chose!

[Anonymous No.15985062]

>>15984947
That sounds stupid honestly.
Islam too recognizes the state as the most important thing but it identify the religion as the state. Ya3ani there is no distinction between the two.

Also the way a religion is on paper de jure is not how people actually behave. It's rarely the case and these exceptions are the ones to play the role of the whole, unfortunately. Judaism is too a state-religion but practically the average orthodox Brooklyn Jew for example is wayyy away from even thinking about implementing his laws on anyone.

[Anonymous No.15985077]

>>15985062
Thats kinda how leftists view the state, the state in their mind is their ideology, which is why they lack tolerance towards different believes.

[Anonymous No.15985098]

>>15985062
Jews don't believe their law is allowed until the Messiah rebuilds the temple

In the West and the Rest: Globalization and the Terrorist Threat, Scruton argues Shari'ah refusing to recognize corporate personhood makes separation of church and state impossible, and that corporate personhood is fundamental to western values

[Anonymous No.15985104]

So China is conservative?

[Anonymous No.15985109]

>>15984947
Why is polyamory pushed so hard nowadays?

[Anonymous No.15985134]

>>15985104
No a major part of conservativism according to his work, The West and the West: Globalization and the Terrorist Threat, is free speech. He gives an example of pornography as covered by this saying Islam is in favor of banning it

[Anonymous No.15985140]

>>15985109
Monogamy is dead, so to prevent the rise of incels they push a relationship where multiple men share one woman
The reverse would be impossible

[Anonymous No.15985160]

>>15985134
>He gives an example of pornography as covered by this saying Islam is in favor of banning it
So are the tories though lol (this is good thing)

[Anonymous No.15985173]

>>15985134
>conservatism is about spreading degeneracy and subverting traditional values through abuse of granted liberties

[Anonymous No.15985193]

This unironicly makes me want to convert to islam. Anglo conservatives are just as bad as liberals, there is basicly no diference between the two.

[Anonymous No.15985195]

>>15985109
They are trying to fix the incel epidemic by getting them to share one woman.
It won't work because incels are more about exclusivity and romance than sex.

[Anonymous No.15985218]

>>15985195
Incels aren't even a problem guarantee there are like 200-300 "incels" on the face of the earth max. Wouldn't even be surprised if they didn't exist and the whole thing was just a gay fucking meme started by journos.

[Anonymous No.15985271]

>>15985218
Like a third of zoomer men are virgins. Very few of them are celibate because they want to be.

[Anonymous No.15985288]

>>15985271
Doesn't mean they all default to being total fucking faggots like Elliot Rodger.

[Anonymous No.15985303]

>>15985288
An incel is anyone who is sexless and wishes they were not. Not that the term actually means anything anymore though.

[Anonymous No.15985326]

>>15985303
>Not that the term actually means anything anymore though.
So why continue to fucking use it? The whole thing was fucking gay and cringe from the start. People finally stopped using cringe shit like fuckboy just to move on to more cringe shit.

[Anonymous No.15985337]

>>15985303
It'd be more proper to call them "involuntarily celibate" then, since that's what you're describing. The shorter "incel" is unusable for your purposes at this point.

[Anonymous No.15985343]

>>15985271
This is kind of true. People just don't have sex these days.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db366.htm
This is the study that most people are talking about. Statistically, only 42% of women and 38% of men have had sex after high school - the lowest in recorded history. I don't know statistics on "want to" though.

[Anonymous No.15985345]

>>15985109
it benefits attractive men with resources and women
it's just regulated cheating and most polyamorous people won't talk about the issues that arise once they decide to renegotiate their relationship status (aka "I found someone better, but I can't phrase it that way because it would be rude")

[Anonymous No.15985349]

>>15985337
>It'd be more proper to call them "involuntarily celibate" then
Great, more cringe. Holy fuck just call them virgins you fucking knuckle dragging mongoloids. Why invent all these stupid dated terms?

[Anonymous No.15985364]

>>15985271
That has more to do with mentality that has been intentionally engendered in them by powerful social-engineering tools, and has nothing to do with the actual condition of these young men. There's not anything wrong with them, besides their sense of self, which has been undermined by all the institutions meant to build a person up. Really they've just been demoralized and don't try. I don't see how anyone could think that sex is hard to obtain in our current hypersexualized, sex-as-commodity culture. But sex without meaningful relationships and family-building is just a dehumanizing waste of time; it's unfortunate that people who've been convinced that their incels have concurrently been convinced that sex itself is a valuable goal, which it really isn't.

[Anonymous No.15985369]

>>15985345
I've never seen a polyamorous relationship with more women than men in it. It seems to me that it's exceedingly rare anyway; the media only bring it up because is strange. Of course, I'm talking about the formal sort of polyamorous relationship; not the informal "polyamorous" lifestyle of many people that apps like Tinder have encouraged; though I guess that's all about sex, not love as the term would suggest.

[Anonymous No.15985384]

>>15985109
The lucrative LGBT lobby that was constructed to pass gay marriage needs to keep its income rolling in. The transgender culture war has mostly been won, so polyamory is next because conservatives hate it and try to fight it. Once that's done I bet public sex will be the hip thing to push. But the much feared "pedo acceptance" movement will never come because the blue checkmarks that love this stuff think an age gap wider than two years is grooming.

[Anonymous No.15985388]

>>15985349
They don't mean the same thing, you gigantic cringe-obsessed faggot.

[Anonymous No.15985392]

>>15985369
>I've never seen a polyamorous relationship with more women than men in it
why would women want to increase competition?
>Of course, I'm talking about the formal sort of polyamorous relationship
funny thing is hippy communes of the 70's weren't that long ago and were basically the same thing

[Anonymous No.15985425]

>>15985384
The groomers in Hollywood vs the feminists. Who has the power?

[Anonymous No.15985439]

>>15985109
Because whores think six mediocre dicks will make up for their ineligibility to be a kings side side side bitch

[Anonymous No.15985441]

>>15984947
Old days:
>Teenagers experiment sexually and with drugs and alcohol
>Festival days, time off of farm or school work all comes with sex
>Noblemen be fucking peasant girls, peasant men be fucking noblewomen
>People are just fucking all the time, cheating on each other left and right
>Girls get blackout drunk and wake up with cum dripping out of their pussy, walk it off no problem
>Abortifactants and birth control grow freely in nature and are common knowledge, you can just go out and eat a certain amount of a purple flower and not get pregnant
>Guys who get cheated on are openly mocked, people put the "cuckolds horns" on their head
>Christianity and the church tacitly support all this, the priest allows some time for debauchery before he takes over with a church lesson
>Everyone is deeply faithful and fully expects their hedonistic actions to be forgiven

Read the decameron, read chaucer

Now days:
>Teenagers fear sex, must see a doctor, counselor, social worker, and form a careful consent contract with their sexual partner
>Groups of people form carefully organized societies where each individual specializes in a specific comfort partner role to each other person
>These groups are constantly butt hurt and forced to have frequent board meetings, without sex, to go over the terms of the agreement again
>Anything goes wrong with drugs or pre-sex contract agreement and the "victim" is immediately emotionally shattered
>Have to go see an expert and talk about your sex life, get tested, to get an abortion or birth control assuming you live in one of the states that hasn't banned the whole thing outright
>People are still drinking and doing drugs but they sit alone and ponder their existence
>Cucks are so taboo that they develop fetishes about it, get off on their own humiliation
>Church has faded away but we fulfill our own guilt- and shame- needs, no need to pay anybody we just enforce morality on each other and ourselves through deep guilt and unhappiness
>No faith, no hope for an afterlife, people are beginning to suspect happiness is a marketing construct
>even though there is almost no sex happening, sex between social classes is at an all time low

So which sounds more conservative and which sounds more liberal to you?

[Anonymous No.15985459]

>>15985441
Lol, and Pulp Fiction is an accurate representation of LA

[Anonymous No.15985471]

>>15985109
they're going back to the traditional paganism

[Anonymous No.15985475]

>>15985459
no but it is a product of a culture which reflects its folkways values and norms

[Anonymous No.15985476]

>>15985140
>wow the future i can't wait for flying cars and robots and stuff
>instead we get ten trillion niggers and have to timeshare women
what the fuck happened

[Anonymous No.15985479]

>>15984947
So, his idea of conservatism is late 18th century liberalism? I guess that means 200 years from now, conservatives will be suggesting we go back to the good old times of #blacklivesmatter and trans rights.

Oh wait, no they won't, because by then Europe will be ruled by traditionalist muslims, and it'll be illegal to be this stupid.

[Anonymous No.15985483]

>>15985425
They are one and the same. They want grooming for themselves, and feminism for everyone else. Why would they want to share?

[Anonymous No.15985500]

>>15985384
>Once that's done I bet public sex will be the hip thing to push.

Hip thing? It's already here.

[Anonymous No.15985504]

>>15985475
Yes and no. Heroin and murder are definitely a big part of LA. However the idea that the average denizen shoots heroin and whacks people would be a gross misapprehension

[Anonymous No.15985508]

>>15985500

[Anonymous No.15985525]

>>15985508
>leftist rags are obscure

Ok, my dude.

[Anonymous No.15985526]

>>15985104
Haven't you heard about what they're doing to the Uighurs?

[Anonymous No.15985529]

>>15985425
bored liberal upper middle class soccer moms are swing voters on this shit so they do

[Anonymous No.15985542]

>>15985392
>hippy communes of the 70's
You mean CIA funded micro cults

[Anonymous No.15985552]

>>15985504
Tarantino is actually a great example for this conversation because he works basically by digesting massive amounts of film and regurgitating an amalgamation of all he ingested.
Pulp fiction was heavily influenced by schlocky exploitation films, gangster movies, japanese and chinese pink films, and the eponymous "pulp fiction" which constitutes an entire genre of books.
These are the most popular stories, they sell like crazy to normal-ass people who don't consider themselves readers at all. Detective stories, dumb smut, manly adventure stories, romance novels with fabio on the front with rippling pecs and abs.
They reflect the taste of the masses, which is influenced by on-the-ground reality as much as it is by advertising, it's the raw material of culture.
Anyway there are non-fiction primary sources as well which confirm my painting the middle ages as sex crazed, drug fueled, violent, hilarious, optimistic, and thoroughly uncompromised by our modern complexes of guilt and morality, which had yet to be invented by wealthy white liberals.

[Anonymous No.15985557]

>>15985476
We had it too good and don't value our freedom anymore

[Anonymous No.15985574]

>>15985098
This is why I see Scruton more as a liberal-conservative in the spirit of the eternal Anglo. As evidence, two of his books had been translated into Hebrew.

[Anonymous No.15985577]

>>15985542
tomato tomatoe

[Anonymous No.15985589]

>>15985504
so, in their attempt to seem libertine and unfettered by patriarchy, the polyamorist actually shows their inability to think outside of the dominant narrative. By trying and failing they show themselves to be even more of a free-will-obliterated subject of the american authoritarian liberalism than those who don't bother.

[Anonymous No.15985599]

>>15985388
Cringe is gay and I don't want to have to hear it all the time you fucking fag.

[Anonymous No.15985611]

>>15985577
we are engaging in a revolutionary act of freedom from the social norms that have corroded society through love and drugs

we are unaware participants to mass psychological experiments that will determine how our children and children’s children should be properly manipulated through sex drugs and music

[Anonymous No.15985615]

>>15985552
Tarantino likes feet.

[Anonymous No.15985630]

>>15985611
I do hope CIA actually managed to get some research done on various psychedelics since it will never go through the public sector due to ethics of human testing
and maybe one day it will be published

[Anonymous No.15985642]

>>15985615
A lot of people like feet

[Anonymous No.15985652]

>>15985642
I prefer armpits

[Anonymous No.15985657]

>>15985642
Footfag detected.

[Anonymous No.15985660]

>>15985500
>Anime avatar
>Anarkiddie flag
>Blue checkmark

[Anonymous No.15985663]

>>15985630
You think you actually “enjoy” popular culture don’t you

[Anonymous No.15985676]

>>15985657
No no no I swear I'm not a foot fag. You've got the wrong guy.

[Anonymous No.15985685]

There are forms of western conservatism that allow for theocratic regimes, but yeah the nation is basically a western invention. The question is really what the nation represents or corresponds to. What's a "people?" That's what Heidegger and Schmitt and all those more theoretical types were interested in.

Some people in this tradition would say that liberalism is downstream of a relatively conservative nation state, because you have to have a people who agree on some shared ground in order for them to be able to have disagreements over other things. If you agree that you are French and fundamentally there is value in your tolerating one another, you are less likely to kill eachother over a minor doctrinal difference or frustration that the other guy's views are for the moment better represented by your shared government.

Schmitt was actually Roman Catholic and early on he played around with the Catholic church's historical super-legal status over all the smaller national/feudal units of Europe. But he abandoned that pretty quickly. Now there are people who want to revive a kind of pan-european nationalism like this again, Mosley tried it for example.

You could fit Muslims within that framework in the same way you could fit Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox within that framework even though they wouldn't get along in the same nation perhaps. But any Muslim who believes that his religion should become the foundation of life for everybody is obviously not compatible with Europe because Europe is not Islamic.

The real question is: Is it a European invention, or part of Europe's unique essence, to be able to tolerate other essences as distinct? Is Islam just another distinctness, capable of tolerating distinctness in others, or did Europeans really create the ability to say "you're distinct and that's okay"?

[Anonymous No.15985689]

>>15985663
enjoy wouldn't be the right word
mildly interested in how popular media reflects the creators perception of their audience and what the masses are currently consuming maybe?

[Anonymous No.15985694]

>the nation
>religion
>the state
>church

[Anonymous No.15985725]

>>15985077
Broad generalizations are always correct, yes.

[Anonymous No.15985730]

>>15985109
good art, romantic love, and devotion to the creator have gone into hiding, along with everything else strictly Aryan. Revenge of the Jews

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15985731]

>>15985694
Exactly

[Anonymous No.15985785]

>>15985694
>ancient ideas are spooks

[Anonymous No.15985795]

>>15985785
Yes. Read Ego and Its Own already.

[Anonymous No.15985801]

>>15985785
>yes exactly. turn on the radio, tune in to your favorite station and drop out of the race

[Anonymous No.15985811]

>>15985795
I did, but that didn’t stop me thinking for myself

[Anonymous No.15985816]

>>15985785
Do you let the king fuck your wife before you on your marriage night?

[Anonymous No.15985822]

>>15985816
Not before I praise the dead by eating their corpse around a huge bonfire

[Anonymous No.15985826]

>>15984947
Scruton makes three primary claims in the first half of his book: that humans are essentially animals, that conservatives are romantics, and that “political correctness” is a preoccupation of people who think too much.

With respect to his first claim, Scruton confuses an essential quality of humans—rationality—with an accidental quality—sentience. The fact that animals can do abstract thinking does not imply that their rationality is identical to ours. In fact, it does not even imply that their reasoning is equal to ours. One might compare the ways of thinking of a dog, a four year old, and an adult who has just finished school: the first may seem somewhat more childish, but the third is often distinctly less rational.

On the second claim, it’s worth noting that Scruton is committing an informal logical fallacy known as the genetic fallacy, which he tries to cover up with the fact that he’s discussing an aspect of the broader “romantic movement”. Of course romanticism didn’t suddenly spring into being in full-blown form with a precise, precise manifesto that was accepted by everyone who called himself a romantic. The romantic movement has numerous offshoots that bear little if any resemblance to each other. The same could be said of, say, literary criticism or cooking. Romanticism itself isn’t a cohesive enough ideology to use as a term of criticism. Even if you were to define what you mean by “romanticism”, Scruton is not examining the romantic movement so much as something that came out of it. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no historical evidence that these romantics are anything but logical, and logic is not the trait Scruton thinks they excel at. Scruton’s main reason for including this is that he wishes to implicitly justify himself for his poetic nonsense by convincing the reader that he’s a romantic like all the rest of the romantics.

The third claim, that political correctness is a cultural phenomenon, is an outright falsehood. Political correctness is very much a political phenomenon. It should be called Political Liberalism, because it’s a facet of an ideology that was born out of the French Revolution and hasn’t changed since.

All of this may seem tangential to the subject at hand. In reality, it’s vital. Because I hate this book.

[Anonymous No.15985840]

>>15985816
Seriously! That anon really believes in geometry, what a fucking retard

[Anonymous No.15985845]

>>15985526
>>15985104
>>15985134

China is third-positionist, not c*nservative or l*beral.

[Anonymous No.15985856]

>>15985840
geometry is made up as is everything that has to do with mathematics

[Anonymous No.15985857]

>>15985845
imagine juggling these buzzwords for intellectual stimulation

[Anonymous No.15985864]

>>15985856
Yes

[Anonymous No.15985874]

>>15985864
plato has done incalculable damage to western thought

[Anonymous No.15985882]

>>15985874
Cringe.

[Anonymous No.15985890]

>>15985874
Retard, Plato is the basis of Western thought. He literally can’t have damaged it since he is literally the cornerstone of it.

[Anonymous No.15985896]

>>15985890
hence why everything between him and maybe Hegel is complete nonsense and a waste of time. sad

[Anonymous No.15985899]

>>15985874
this is the most embarrassing post I have ever seen on /lit/

People reading this plz remember that these people frequent this board so lighten up when discussing philosophy

[Anonymous No.15985905]

>>15985816
Droit de cuissage is a myth. The only one who let the king fuck their wives were the lord in the court who did it for political advantage (which is the main purpose of marriage for a lord anyway).

[Anonymous No.15985908]

>>15985896
I kind of like Schopenhauer tho

[Anonymous No.15985913]

>>15985905
Please don’t ruin this for me anon is gonna run away before we get her to go full retard

[Anonymous No.15985931]

>>15985874
double bacon western thought

[Anonymous No.15985933]

>>15985896
This is so retarded it becomes based

[Anonymous No.15985940]

>>15985908
I was exaggerating for comedic effect obviously, there's some things worth reading in that time frame. The problem begins when we let a man get away with literally believing in Forms (prefer the term ideas). That's just a shaky foundation.

[Anonymous No.15985942]

>>15985933
My thoughts on Stirner exactly

[Anonymous No.15985954]

>>15985940
No I get it your funny haha I didn’t think your were actually that fucking stupid

[Anonymous No.15985974]

>>15985816
Do you speak English? KEK.

[Anonymous No.15985999]

>>15985905
Other anon said "ancient", not "medieval." King's right was definitely a thing in certain ancient villages.

[Anonymous No.15986002]

>>15985974
I typed C U C K but the ancient spooky algorithm auto corrected it to KEK. God I hate when the people who program their own websites enforce codes that I have to follow, it makes me so fwastwated

[Anonymous No.15986009]

>>15985999
It’s so nice to have an accredited historian in this thread

[Anonymous No.15986036]

>>15984947
>>15985109
It's ALWAYS a woman having more than one man, and the men being ok with this arrangement
Truly makes you think, doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.15986049]

>>15985954
haha yeah as if

[Anonymous No.15986050]

>>15986036
Yes it does

[Anonymous No.15986056]

>>15986036
Well of course since the converse has other names.
>1 man several women relationship with symmetry among the women
polygamy, see: The Bible, the Mormons, most of the Middle East and Asia until recently
>1 man, several women relationship with dissymmetry of status among the women
traditional monogamy

[Anonymous No.15986063]

>>15985999
It still wasn't a widespread ancient idea, unlike Platonism or monarchy. By that token you could say cannibalism is also an ancient idea.

[Anonymous No.15986073]

>>15986036
God I can’t imagine being a man who is desired by literally every woman who comes into contact with him

[Anonymous No.15986076]

>>15986056
Forgot to say: symmetry of status is a bit imprecise here, I mean symmetry of legal status, as in married vs not married. In practice some wives are often more important than others in polygamy.

[Anonymous No.15986077]

>>15986063
Yea, that's fair, but I was really being hyperbolic with my original post anyway because the idea that ancient ideas are somehow 'okay' is even more retarded than the idea that prima nocta was a thing.

[Anonymous No.15986082]

>>15986077
I can agree with that. Retardedness is an time-honored practice among our species.

[Anonymous No.15986085]

>>15985349
A lot of virgins want to reserve the tag to bolster their slave morality
>I’m not an incel, I’m just staying PURE!

[Anonymous No.15986091]

>>15984947
>Enlightenment
>Conservative enough
>Religion
>Not conservative enough

[Anonymous No.15986098]

>>15986085
>slave morality
Another stupid dated term coined by a total fucking fag.

[Anonymous No.15986108]

>>15985857
Imagine not understanding the distinction and then feeling smug about it

[Anonymous No.15986122]

>>15986098
>NOOOOO YOU CAN’T JUST CALL OUT SOUR GRAPES I DIDNT WANT THEM ANYWAYYYYYY

[Anonymous No.15986135]

>>15986108
Feelsgoodman

[Anonymous No.15986138]

>>15986122
>SOUR GRAPES
Another dated term. Can you think in anything but memes?

[Anonymous No.15986225]

>>15985725
But you're generalizing what he's saying lol

[Anonymous No.15986234]

>>15986225
>N-no YOU are the one doing it!
uhhhh cope my dude

[Anonymous No.15986256]

>>15985077
Nonsensical sentence.

[Anonymous No.15986257]

>>15986234
>uhhhh cope my dude
posting cope is the biggest cope

[Anonymous No.15986264]

>>15985195
>Incels
>More about romance than sex
What? Since when were incels so based?

[Anonymous No.15986275]

>>15985098
>corporate personhood
He uses that term in a very broad sense, though. Nothing to do with corporations.

[Anonymous No.15986282]

>>15985195
>It won't work because incels are more about exclusivity and romance than sex.
and that's a good thing

[Anonymous No.15986284]

>>15985104
China is not the west.

[Anonymous No.15986292]

>Dear Care and Sneeding: I think my daughter might be a whore.

[Anonymous No.15986302]

>>15986264
Blessed and Patrician

[Anonymous No.15986304]

Conservatives are just the progressives of yesteryear. Right now they're hung up on nationalism and classical liberalism, but give it a century and they'll be preaching the same thing as the modern "liberals".

>>15984955
>fpbp

[Anonymous No.15986314]

>I’m waiting for the right guy to rape me

[Anonymous No.15986325]

>>15985525
You are forming your impressions of the outside world based on clickbait journalism. Literally if their articles don't generate enough outrage, the author's kids don't eat that day. That's their business model, and also your window into reality outside your basement. Sad.

[Anonymous No.15986347]

>>15986264
>after you, m'lady

[Anonymous No.15986414]

>>15984947
Sounds more like liberalism. Conservatives want theocracy.

[Anonymous No.15986425]

>>15986414
i wish

[Anonymous No.15986684]

>>15985109
Foids have gotten too uppity
If man wont put them in their place, then Nature will

[Anonymous No.15986693]

>>15986414
Conservatism in the modern sense is basically just the liberalism of a hundred years aog

[Anonymous No.15986816]

>>15986347
Is this Black Friday?

[Anonymous No.15986895]

>>15985826
Say more, Anon.

[Anonymous No.15987165]

>>15984947
>Islam is antagonist to western values because it rejects these important legacies of the Enlightenment.
Conservative used to mean anti-Enlightenment. Funny.

[Anonymous No.15987801]

>>15985349
virgin doesn't pack a punch anymore because the conversation went "you are wrong because you haven't had sex", "i have had sex", "well, you are wrong because you can't keep getting it" -> the discussion could be of anything in honestly doesn't matter what is being disscused

[Anonymous No.15988247]

>>15985557
This is because of having too much freedom. The liberal obsession with liberation that has infected the American psyche since the nation's inception is our fucking curse. If we want to get better, we have to let go of the cancer that is egalitarianism, individualism, and libertinism.

[Anonymous No.15988282]

>>15985874
>western thought
Wouldn't exist if it weren't for him.

[Anonymous No.15988559]

>>15985109
They always look like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac-eRycRc0o

[Anonymous No.15988598]

>>15985109
Because of female scarcity

[Anonymous No.15988977]

>>15984947
>conservative
>nation means more than god
>muh enlightenment

Ah yes, American """""conservatives"""""

[Anonymous No.15988993]

>>15988977
>Scruton
>American

[Anonymous No.15989069]

>>15988993
Anglo-American Protestant Burkean """"""""conservatism""""""" is all the same, only perhaps sadder in Britain.

>noooooooo, my conservatism must be rational and practical or liberals won't respect me!

[Anonymous No.15989097]

>>15986002
Cuck.

[Anonymous No.15989130]

>>15985441
didnt read