/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15967301]

The universe exists
>Yes, God made the universe
But who made god?
>No. God has always existed, and is uncreated.
Why can't the universe have always existed, and been uncreated? You're just pushing the problem one step further down the chain of reasoning.
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O-ONLY GOD IS E-ETERNAL AND W-W-WITH NO BEGINNING, I-IN FACT T-T-TIME DOESN'T EVEN APPLY TO GOD, THAT SURE SHOWED YOU, ATHEISTKEK

[Anonymous No.15967313]

>>15967301
Some claim that all of existence is in fact god

[Anonymous No.15967325]

>>15967313
sounds like autism

[Anonymous No.15967353]

how could we possibly know anything outside our universe?

[Anonymous No.15967459]

>>15967301
>t.

[Anonymous No.15967461]

>>15967313
Im not typically a proponent of a monotheistic God, but Spinoza is fucking based.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15967492]

>>15967313
It’s the last available god, and it doesn’t require your worship in any particular way. If the schizos could learn to be happy with that, we could move on.

[Anonymous No.15967497]

>>15967301
The universe exists
>Yes, God made the universe
But who made god?
>No. God has always existed, and is uncreated.
Why can't the universe have always existed, and been uncreated?
>Because we've discovered a metric by which to track the aging of the universe and found it to be approximately 14 billion years old, meaning that it came into being at some point due to something that pre-existed it which we've agreed to call "God" because functionally that's what it is.

I'm not even a god guy and this is pretty simple

[Anonymous No.15967502]

>>15967492
It's closely allied with the idea of a man-like God. God hardly makes his presence known in this universe anyway, despite his movements ordaining the particular way things behave.

Honestly, if you can't see how God interacts with reality, then I feel sorry for you: you need to know of God's existence. :3

[Anonymous No.15967505]

>>15967313
Then it's a useless concept

[Anonymous No.15967521]

>>15967497
>which we've agreed to call "God"
That's not the definition of God and even if it was then it would still be irrelevant since it's used with other meanings with almost all use.

[Anonymous No.15967525]

>>15967459
He was right. The Jains knew it too.

[Anonymous No.15967529]

>>15967461
you mean pantheist i think
>>15967313
Can God be limited by his own existence?
i think parmenides said that our world is an illusion because God (the One) can not "just" exist there as it would be limited and the One can not have limits, later influencing Plato's Idees and christianit's omnipresent quality of God

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15967543]

>The mysteries left in physics are proofs of god’s hand movin’ stuff.

[Anonymous No.15967549]

>>15967301
Outer Wilds already answered all of this.

[Anonymous No.15967552]

>>15967521
>That's not the definition of God
Says who, you? Fuck you. There, problem solved.

[Anonymous No.15967557]

>>15967543
No one said that. No one's ever said that except for pop scientists, Butterfly.

Very often before this recent trend, scientists would discover the revolutions of celestial bodies, for instance, and not suddenly 'stop' calling them heavenly.

Every single physical law you know of is evidence of God's existence. :3

[Anonymous No.15967563]

Gods existence is irrelevant. The belief and faith is all that matters. The Bible isnt literate about all of its issues. Why is this so hard for atheist to grasp?

[Anonymous No.15967564]

>>15967301
I really hate having a poor philosophical background anon, but I'll try
the reason why God exists and made the universe, and not that the universe exists without God, is because of the implied properties a creator without creation would have and the necessity of this
the argument that all existence is God can fit in here if you want, but it would not be limited to what we can observe. existence itself would be perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, etc.meaning that the universe would have in a very loose sense,a mind of its own

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15967566]

>>15967557
It isn’t.

[Anonymous No.15967571]

>>15967301
Spinozism and Jainism don't have this problem.

[Anonymous No.15967580]

>>15967552
The dictionary.

Anyway that's not how the word is used.
God is often redefined in the middle of arguments to defend the concept so it's very slippery.

[Anonymous No.15967582]

>>15967566
Oh that's neat, Butterfly. Anyway the answer to your question earlier, why there are so many women around me, is because God exists, and I prayed and stood fast by his existence, and so I am in the situation I am because of him.

The Quran is the word of God, butterfly.

[Anonymous No.15967586]

>>15967571
And Mormonism.

[Anonymous No.15967593]

God is the idea humans use to explain the contradictions their heads were born with. Wiser men learn from this only that they are small, and not that among larger things there is something largest of all. Go ahead, post a presumptuous reductio.

[Anonymous No.15967613]

>>15967580
>The dictionary.
I can write my own if I felt like it.
>Anyway that's not how the word is used.
Again, says you, faggot.
>God is often redefined in the middle of arguments to defend the concept so it's very slippery.
By who? Me or you? Because there's nobody else here right now.

[Anonymous No.15967630]

>>15967613
Just look in this very thread, everyone who has tried to define God has a different definition.

[Anonymous No.15967637]

>then i'm not a part of the universe. i am not a real thing
you're part of the universe, you're the universe being shaped, you're surroundings are all shaped parts of the universe, but in the end, in the core, they're all made from the same things, extremely different yet the same.

>try to fight the universe as much as possible so it stops changing and so nothing changes. so my shape stays as it is as long as possible
you're changing every minute, every part of what makes you, yourself is changing.
what do you have to fight for? you have already been here, you're just a new shape, a new mix of clay in a different glass, but you were always here and you will always be here until the end of times, taking different shapes, maybe not having the conciousness that you're used to, but then again, who are you? you're nothing but a mix of things

[Anonymous No.15967644]

>>15967313
>>15967301

[Anonymous No.15967650]

>>15967497
>it came into being
Come now anon, you know damn well the
>hurf durf afeists believe nuffin came from nuffin and boom xD
meme is just a meme. Right? You don't actually believe people think that the Big Bang was an event that created anything, correct? You ARE aware that the Big Bang was just all space and energy compressed to a single point, right?

Right?

[Anonymous No.15967686]

>>15967630
>everyone who has tried to define God has a different definition.
You mean the people involved in discussions separate from ours? I don't see what they have to do with anything.

>>15967650
>You don't actually believe people think that the Big Bang was an event that created anything, correct?
I mean, a lot of people DO think that. A lot of people think chocolate milk comes from brown cows.
>You ARE aware that the Big Bang was just all space and energy compressed to a single point, right?
Huh? What's a "point"? How big is it? What is it shaped like? You seem to be very confident in your knowledge here.

[Anonymous No.15967708]

>>15967686
Oh, turns out you're just a dumbfuck. Go read a book. If that's too much trouble, go here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang
>b-but y-you're supposed to d-debate me
Go read a book, retard.

[Anonymous No.15967724]

>>15967708
>X came from Y
>What's Y?
>Fuck you
I didn't say you had to debate me, I don't have a point to argue, nor did I even put one forward. You just said "the Big Bang was just all space and energy compressed to a single point" and I asked you what that's supposed to mean.

[Anonymous No.15967734]

>>15967724
See >>15967708

[Anonymous No.15967758]

>>15967734
No.

[Anonymous No.15967760]

>>15967758
See >>15967708

[Anonymous No.15967780]

>>15967505
Stop calling me (god) useless

[Anonymous No.15967799]

>>15967724
>>15967686
how exactly do you not already know this? i get that you are defending young earth creationism on fucking 4chan so you clearly have a double digit iq and all, but still, theyve taught this shit i schools for like thirty years. how are you at least not aware that this is what people are talking about when they say "the big bang"?

am i just taking the bait here or something?

[Anonymous No.15967808]

>>15967529
>you mean pantheist i think
Yeah, but in some senses it's also Monotheistic, in so far as everything is part of the One God

[Anonymous No.15967812]

>>15967301
>Aseity (from Latin a "from" and se "self", plus -ity) is the property by which a being exists in and of itself, from itself, or exists as so-and-such of and from itself
Come on Anon, I don't even believe in God but you can do better than that. This is already well trodden ground.

[Anonymous No.15967835]

>>15967644
Whole lotta hot air to just say "god works in mysterious ways"

[Anonymous No.15967837]

>>15967808
I think at that point it sort of falls apart. If God is an all-pervasive part of everything, and never takes action because the only thing God does is "Be", then is it really fair to say it's "God" at all? The word becomes meaningless, because you've abstracted God away from being "a term to describe Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Jesus, etc". If God is everything, you can't have more than one everything, so the mono is pointless as you can never have polytheism, and the theism is pointless because you can never have God actually doing anything other than Be.

This is a criticism Hindus make of the-sect-that-shall-not-be-named, and why they label its founder an atheist, by the way. Jews do the same with Spinoza.

[Anonymous No.15967849]

S
U
R
G
E

[Anonymous No.15968071]

>>15967799
>i get that you are defending young earth creationism
Woah woah woah, hold up, no I'm not. Where the fuck did you get that from? I never even brought that or anything even slightly related to that up. Allow me to repeat myself for those not paying attention, someone said "the Big Bang was just all space and energy compressed to a single point" so I asked them what the term "point" in that statement is supposed to be defined as.

>am i just taking the bait here or something?
No you're just kind of an idiot, evidently. As if the only two options for where the universe came from is 'big bang' or 'jesus' and if I don't jump up in the fucking air to show my enthusiasm for one I must clearly be defending the other. You simpleton. You fucking buffoon.

[Anonymous No.15968169]

>>15967564
If you're trying to make the ontological argument, you really need to read more. The ontological argument is flawed.

For example, you can define a being that should exist by definition, and be observable by definition, yet is not observable.
If the being exists, it is observable.
It is not observable, thus it does not exist.
If the ontological argument is valid, the being should exist.
The being doesn't exist, therefore the ontological argument is invalid.

You seem to be making this mistake when you define god as a creator

The rest of your post is relatively incoherent, and I'm not going to waste my time trying to salvage something from it

[Anonymous No.15968181]

>>15967812
Come on, anon.
You haven't even explained why god has to have this property, and the universe absolutely cannot have this property

[Anonymous No.15968217]

>>15967593
>among larger things there is something largest of all
How could there not be?

[Anonymous No.15968219]

>>15967644
Anon...
This is just moving the problem.
They are just assuming axioms and postulates without any proof of them being true.
For example, the whole unrealized potential nonsense. This is just another manifestation of the flawed ontological argument

[Anonymous No.15968225]

>>15967593
can you translate this to a non-schizo wording please
I understand it makes sense to you, but you need to use more words, and better wording, for it to make sense to other people

[Anonymous No.15968239]

>>15968169
I can't understand your post.
I really need to study more.
Anyway thanks for the effort post anon, sorry it was wasted on someone like me, but perhaps other anons can benefit from it

[Anonymous No.15968308]

>>15967563
True
God is as real as communism

[Anonymous No.15968345]

>>15968217
>How could there not be?
The way in which you categorize things is the only reason for which you think there must. I would rather use reductio to toss that belief out rather than tack on a belief in some giant omnipotent being to fix everything. Bounds and finitudes are man made simplifications we use to survive, not realities.

>>15968225
See above basically.

[Anonymous No.15968363]

>>15968345
>Bounds and finitudes are man made simplifications we use to survive, not realities.
Exactly. God is infinite and he's the highest Reality.

[Anonymous No.15968369]

Because the only way the universe could have always existed, would require a supernatural explanation, or be a matter entirely beyond our comprehension.
Conclusions, which would be unscientific.
It can however, apply to God, because he is beyond our understanding, and supernatural by definition.

[Anonymous No.15968376]

Once you do enough LSD and shrooms, you realize that synchronicity exists, there is perfect justice in the universe, you've been banished to this strafplanet because you have a shitty soul, and you can't escape the cycle of reincarnation until you stop being such a cunt, because God hates you and nobody in the superior worlds wants you around

[Anonymous No.15968382]

>>15967301
>The universe exists
prove it cringe nigger

[Anonymous No.15969071]

>>15967301
>My points are correct.
>NOOOOOOOOOOO P-POINTS OPPOSING MY VIEW ARE SILLY, WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS BY AN UNSTABLE PERSON, THEREFORE I WIN!!!!111

[Anonymous No.15969154]

>>15969071
>>15969071
>>My points are correct.
>>NOOOOOOOOOOO P-POINTS OPPOSING MY VIEW ARE SILLY, WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS BY AN UNSTABLE PERSON, THEREFORE I WIN!!!!111
right back at ya

[Anonymous No.15969185]

>>15968363
Wrapping the word God around it only damages the idea, as does describing it as an endpoint or thing generally. There isn't a Complete.

[Anonymous No.15969288]

>>15969154
>>>My points are correct.
>>>NOOOOOOOOOOO P-POINTS OPPOSING MY VIEW ARE SILLY, WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS BY AN UNSTABLE PERSON, THEREFORE I WIN!!!!111
>right back at ya
right back at ya

[Anonymous No.15969341]

>>15967301
“The universe” isn’t a thing. It’s just a category of things that we know exist in a certain space which we share.

God, is a SINGULAR Necessary Existence, while the universe is a category of contingents.

[Anonymous No.15969345]

>>15967313
And that is the correct answer.

[Anonymous No.15969561]

>>15969288
based and nice dubs

[Anonymous No.15969568]

>>15969341
>God, is a SINGULAR Necessary Existence
Where's your proof?

[Anonymous No.15969651]

>>15969568
I am not claiming God exists in this argument. I am pointing out the assumptions of the universe as one entity cannot be made, so I compared it to how we use the word “God” in this argument to clarify,

[Anonymous No.15969652]

>>15967313
The existence doesn't seem to be omnibenevolent (or even omnipotent in a meaningful way).

[Anonymous No.15969661]

>>15967529
Pant heist sounds like a funny concept.

[Anonymous No.15969673]

>>15969568
here's my proof:
*farts on your face*

[Anonymous No.15969677]

>>15967313
Refuted by Marx.

[jesus No.15969698]

>>15967301
God is manifesting Universe right now.

[Anonymous No.15969712]

>>15969651
Pretty retarded to not define what you mean by singular
Pretty retarded to not make your post actually clear and coherent

[Anonymous No.15969720]

>>15969698
based schizo
based ESL

[Sage No.15969725]

Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.15969733]

>>15969712
holy shit shut the fuck up redditor.

[Anonymous No.15969738]

>>15969733
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.15969740]

>>15967301
Something with no potency and full act has no need for creation and no capacity to change from its state of perfection.

[Anonymous No.15969751]

>>15969740
Yes! And the crow outside my window crowed three times at 6 am today. It's obviously a sign from the devil. I can't help but see patterns. And these patterns that make sense to me obviously are true. I'm glad to find another schizoposter on this board

[Anonymous No.15969760]

>>15969751
How is referencing Aristotle schizoposting?

[Anonymous No.15969773]

>>15967301

God has the ultimate property of all that is good. So if something is eternal and uncreated it is by definition God. It's semantics.

[Anonymous No.15969786]

>rejecting the notion of individuals
based

>thinking this leads up to one single individual
>individual
not based

>thinking the alternative is nothing
>alternative
not based

[Anonymous No.15969850]

>>15968376
>a supreme being thinking they can even begin to understand me
yeah, fuck off cunts

[Anonymous No.15970060]

It's so fucking simple

The universe is literally all of us, the empty space that surrounds us, there's no difference in anything, It's so twisted and beautiful but we're doomed because of how we percieve it

[Anonymous No.15970120]

>BuT GOd IS thE UniVERsE
lmao

[jesus No.15970342]

>>15970120
unironically if you knew the truth you would find that all people were, are, and always wil be infinitely stupid pederasts, idiots with degeneracy on multi galactic scale. lmao multiplied by a trillion lols.