Books about veganism? I've been watching videos of what happens in factory farming and it makes me angry, depressed, and hopeless that there is a holocaust happening in our backyard and nobody cares.

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Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:12:49 2020 No.15845328 [Reply] [Original]

Books about veganism? I've been watching videos of what happens in factory farming and it makes me angry, depressed, and hopeless that there is a holocaust happening in our backyard and nobody cares.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:13:51 2020 No.15845340 >>15845328 But why is animal cruelty bad?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:15:24 2020 No.15845345 File: 69 KB, 720x726, 1594594683896.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] But we should be able to inflict violence on inferior creatures like animals and women

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:16:15 2020 No.15845352 Oy vey, it's anuddah shoah! On a serious note, factory farming is a necessary evil of living in a civilized country that's home to billions of people. Pay a premium for organic/free-range if you don't enjoy the products of factory farming.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:16:28 2020 No.15845355 >>15845328 just start raising your own livestock and slaughter them the way you want

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:17:47 2020 No.15845360 >>15845352 >>15845355 Or you know, you can just not eat animal products.

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:20:11 2020 No.15845376
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>>15845328
We killed our closest ancestors and ate their brains. Life is brutal and it doesn't care. You're just weak and spooked and should probably get in line with the pigs and cows so your miserable life can come to an end sooner.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:21:13 2020 No.15845385 >>15845360 Animals raised for slaughter have a better and more carefree life than most humans.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:23:14 2020 No.15845402 >>15845385 Are you retarded?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:24:14 2020 No.15845409 >>15845402 Are you?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:25:15 2020 No.15845413 >>15845376 Actually I just saw neanderthals had bigger brains that modern humans, lucky Europeans and Asians interbred with them so it wasn't a total loss

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:25:34 2020 No.15845417 >>15845340 the word cruelty gives a negative denotation, rofl

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:27:09 2020 No.15845428 >>15845413 It doesn't referal to Neanderthals in the book. Subhomonid species in parts of Africa.

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:28:09 2020 No.15845433

>>15845409
No because I don't think that animals that get constantly inseminated to produce milk, lived in confined spaces, get their children taken away from them, get put in blenders, get fed to a gargantuan weight that they cannot sustain, have their wings clipped, and get put into your fatass retard mouth have a better life than humans

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:30:10 2020 No.15845448 >>15845376 >appeal to nature nature is an evil pile of shit, we have consciousness so we can do better

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:38:10 2020 No.15845488 >>15845376 the rabbit hole of Chinese medicine is hilarious and terrifying at the same time

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:38:59 2020 No.15845496

>>15845433
The space confinement isn't an issue for anything other than chickens and perhaps more brutal husbandry techniques of calves for veal. For the most part, these animals go about their days in perfect bliss and contentment and experience none of the scarcity and misery found in nature. Man, on the other hand, is in constant agony over making it just another day. Financial torment. Scarcity. Inability to eat. Having to dedicate himself to meaningless labor for 40 hours a week for sustenance. That's not peace. I'd rather have been a cow with a few acres to roam and then met my happy demise than suffered the hell of this life. You've had it too good and your veganism is just a cope probably to deflect your own mistreatments in your presumed hyperabundance that enabled such a care free life you have the audacity to say NOOOOOO NOT THE HECKIN CRITTERS.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:41:23 2020 No.15845510 >>15845496 >when antinatalism, crippling mental illness, and addiction to McDonald’s collide

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:42:03 2020 No.15845516

>>15845340
Because they are other beings of this earth with their own experience. We do not live isolated independent existences but have relations embedded with the rest of the environment and universe. The way we view other beings and treat them ultimately extends to our relationship with our socioecology and the rest of the world. The way we do things now is ultimately self destructive.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:44:02 2020 No.15845530 >>15845510 >when you can't make an argument.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:46:55 2020 No.15845550 >>15845496 why did you bother typing this out

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:48:27 2020 No.15845558

>>15845530

you already have it figured out, any argument that I’d make would be a waste of time. besides, it’s just like you said, it’s Sunday evening, you have to be up bright and early to wagecuck tomorrow. no need for me to ruin your restless sleep even further than it is, you might end up killing yourself

as for OP’s question, the impeachment of man is a decent philosophical argument for vegetarianism and veganism, although the politics behind the book aren’t for the faint of heart

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:48:44 2020 No.15845559 >>15845328 More vegetarian than vegan but check out On the Abstinence of Killing Animals

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:48:46 2020 No.15845560

>>15845328
You can pay farmers to properly raise animals. Don't just fall for the organic meme in meat: in most countries this is about antibiotics, and can include things like grain feeding instead of pasturing. Veganism harms more animals, and environments, and contributes to plastic waste. Properly pastured and rotated livestock restore nutrients to the soil, which cuts out fertilizer off flows, produce healthier and more flavourful meat, and can create carbon sinks. But you have to pay farmers who are willing to leave land fallow, who are willing to leave land to pasture, and who are more prone to seasonal variation. That's a very niche market for something which ultimately is our best chance at keeping any arable land, unfortunately. Look into slow food.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:49:55 2020 No.15845571 >>15845558 >you're wrong but I can't argue why

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:51:26 2020 No.15845582 >>15845510 Pretty funny post ngl

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:51:48 2020 No.15845585 >>15845571 you misunderstand, I am capable of making an argument against everything that you posted, I just refuse to. enjoy your suffering, friend

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:53:45 2020 No.15845593 >>15845585 >you misunderstand, I am capable of making an argument against everything that you posted, I just refuse to. Because you can't.

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:54:07 2020 No.15845596

>>15845516
>Because they are other beings of this earth with their own experience.
No they aren't. Most animal(like everything except dolphins, primates,octopi and crows/parrots, basically any animal that can solve a problem without being taught the answer) Exist on only the barest level of instinct and are no more capable of understanding even their present experience and "choices" or controlling them, then you are in controlling your knee-jerk reflex at the doctor's office.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:57:19 2020 No.15845614 >>15845328 you’ve been manipulated. Only now is veganism moral (4 u)

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:58:18 2020 No.15845623 >>15845328 Eating Animals by Jonathan Safer Foer (iirc) is very good. Going vegan is hard, I've been taking steps to cut out animal products ever so slightly instead of going straight off into the deep end. My one weakness is dark chocolate

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 23:59:15 2020 No.15845628 >>15845623 Spooked.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:01:54 2020 No.15845644

>>15845593

like I said, it would be cruel of me to interrupt the comedy that is your life with any kind of well reasoned argument. if the thought of existence as a cow on a prairie farms subsidiary soothes you, who am I to interfere? whatever wounds you have are clearly greater than Christ himself, no need to upset the balance of the world

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:03:27 2020 No.15845653 File: 12 KB, 420x420, 1592533134637.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15845623 >Depriving myself of fats, phospholipids, cholesteral proteins, vital nutrients and minerals is hard. No shit, sherlock.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:04:40 2020 No.15845664 >>15845596 They all have some form of experiencing the world and denying their experience will only continue our self destructive path

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:13:14 2020 No.15845715 >>15845653 You don't need meat and it's fat is bad for you. Stop reading mom blogs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:14:18 2020 No.15845721 >>15845360 No thanks. Not eating meat and animal fat is proven to shrink your brain and malnourish your body! I want to stay healthy thank you!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:14:41 2020 No.15845726 >>15845715 >medical textbooks and journals are mom blogs

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:16:18 2020 No.15845733 >>15845664 >They all have some form of experiencing And not all forms are worthwhile.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:16:37 2020 No.15845735 File: 30 KB, 328x499, 517oppOogyL._SX326_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15845328 I have not read this and I generally don't like singer very much but I'm still passing it along

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:19:02 2020 No.15845745 >>15845735 Spooked.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:22:14 2020 No.15845770 >>15845715 The very fact that veganism is "hard" and can be done wrong in so many ways is proof that it's bullshit. This is not the natural way the human body is meant to sustain itself. Go fuck yourself trying to promote this evil shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:26:22 2020 No.15845795 >>15845328 Animals are not people, the efficient killing of them to feed ourselves is good, and your feelings are wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:30:47 2020 No.15845818 >>15845795 It wouldn't matter if they were people. You're just spooked. Read Stirner.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:34:35 2020 No.15845839

>>15845664
>>15845516
i like how veganism goes from "kill animals bad" to "we need to stop our self destructive behaviour". its like they have a moral world view to the future but they cant articulate it and only say "animals suffering bad". i always suspect veganism is blind to violence in the animal world, in the vegetal world, in ourselves, in themselves.
its sad in a way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:35:58 2020 No.15845845 >>15845818 not wanting to go to jail is not a spook

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:36:27 2020 No.15845850

>>15845818

In time, busy with the presocratics and some Habermas at the moment. I actually lifted my dusty Stirner to look for some papers a few minutes ago. But I am sure that Stirner has nothing of value to say on the relevant ethical and ontological questions, just as I am sure that your comment here has also been as wrong as it has been bereft of value. Humans are more important than animals because We Is Us. Egoism done right.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:41:14 2020 No.15845877

>>15845845
The premise of you're argument was
>they're not people
My rebuttal was so what if they were. This isn't saying to go ahead and start a free range organic human ranch, so the legality of it and the consequences are neither here nor there. It is saying that if the assumption that the animals were people or people like it would somehow make it immoral because meat bad.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:47:41 2020 No.15845913

>>15845839
Well I mean I kind of did articulate it(?)
We are part of the environment and the more we try to dominate it the more we adopt those dominative practices towards our own society and also the backlash we will get from Gaia. You see it with climate change. What's hard to understand?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:52:04 2020 No.15845931 >>15845770 Well it's not hard. Do you live in a first world country? Than it is ezpz. Cheaper too. Even people in third world countries find a way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:53:51 2020 No.15845939 >>15845770 And every major health says veganism is fine

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:57:25 2020 No.15845964 >>15845939 The fact that media and the UN promotes it is what should signal you something is up. >>15845913 Actually it's difficult because you're malnourishing your body and constantly starving yourself. Should be even easier for third worlders.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 00:57:46 2020 No.15845966

>>15845913
its like your notion of the natural world comes from "avatar" or tv series. its like you understand the natural world like some pacific spirit, pacific mind that we casually hurt with our barbarism.
our violence is the violence of the world, there is no "no domination" in any place. this is the kind of notion that veganism overlook.
i find funny how you see veganism like the solition to climate change. veganism is like a scapegoat at this time.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:01:05 2020 No.15845981

>>15845964
The multi billion dollar government-subsidized meat industry has more to gain from you continuing to believe meat is healthy than anyone else could ever have from getting you to believe otherwise. Ever wonder why heart disease kills so many people in America?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:10:41 2020 No.15846025 But you're happy to eat plants? Plants > animals

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:13:23 2020 No.15846041

>>15845966
Well we are actively harming the natural world and we can change that. why are you so offended? And yes veganism would be a major step to fighting climate change you can look it all up. What is your problem? Why are you so hard pinned in ideology?
>>15845964
What is up? Are you a conspiracy theorist?
>>15845964
Vegan diets are fine you are not starving or malnourishing yourself.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:14:00 2020 No.15846045

>>15845981
Meat doesn't cause heart disease. How the fuck could you even come to that conclusion? No human evolved to eat meat just so they could become sick. Your diet is an unnatural product of modernity - modernity which includes the grain/agricultural industry (Monsanto) btw, which is much larger and more harmful to our planet than the meat industry.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:15:16 2020 No.15846053 >>15846041 Look up any ex-vegan video. They will disagree with you.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:17:05 2020 No.15846060

>>15845516
>Because they are other beings of this earth with their own experience. We do not live isolated independent existences but have relations embedded with the rest of the environment and universe. The way we view other beings and treat them ultimately extends to our relationship with our socioecology and the rest of the world. The way we do things now is ultimately self destructive.
I don't care

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:18:05 2020 No.15846067 >>15845721 >Not eating meat and animal fat is proven to shrink your brain and malnourish your body Source?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:20:39 2020 No.15846089 >>15845328 You should become a Jain vegetarian if you care about reducing suffering.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:21:47 2020 No.15846098 This thread is so fucking reddit.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:26:35 2020 No.15846132

>>15846045
The fats in meat are harmful to you yes. Do you eat your meat raw by the way? of course not or you will get sick we all clean and cook our food our certain way. there is no such thing as an "unnatural" diet. humans use tools and constantly adapt to new ways of living and it is perfectly within nature.
>>15846053
Look up what any major health organization has to say and not propaganda and they will disagree with you.
>>15846060
Are you really a nihilist and don't care or are you so hard pinned in ideology that what I am saying, making you question how you have been living your entire life, makes you offended? The fact that you cared to reply to me and thought it mattered makes me think it is the latter Either way you are what is wrong with the world.
>>15846089
Small individual acts don't do much. Organizing into a big political movement is better.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:30:17 2020 No.15846149 >>15846132 I actually do eat my meat raw. You know, like LITERALLY EVERY ANIMAL ON EARTH THAT EATS MEAT and I never get sick. You have been conditioned.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:34:16 2020 No.15846170 >>15846132 >Testimonies from real people who starved themselves are propaganda. Ok you're just a shill. I get it now.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:35:59 2020 No.15846180

>>15846041
we are always "hurting" the natural world. the human cultivated field of any vegetal its "harming" the natural world. but you dont gonna change that. dont you?. you want to save animals only because you identify with them, but if you have to eat, harvest and manipulate vegetals at your expenses (and at the expenses of "gaia") you dont really care because you dont have imagination to put your feelings in them. but every cell gonna close, every species gonna die. my point is that veganism overlook that kind of intrinsic violence of natural world.

>And yes veganism would be a major step to fighting climate change
but that is what im trying to say. when veganism goes from a tiny framework like "we dont eat animals" to "we gonna save the earth". if you are vegan you are a hero and a saviour of the good of universe in your head. its sad, (and untrue). like i said before.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:39:05 2020 No.15846201

>>15846045
You are aware that 45% of crops are used to feed animals, correct? Any issue with horticulture is only multiplied with animal agriculture considering slaughtered animals only return about a third of the calories required to feed them.
Eating grotesque amounts of factory farmed meat is far more modern than a diet of plants.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:39:46 2020 No.15846203 >>15846132 >Small individual acts don't do much. Organizing into a big political movement is better. I think you'll find that there are about 4 or 5 million Jains and they have been around since ~600BC.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:40:16 2020 No.15846207 >>15845328 Sexual Politics of Meat

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:45:49 2020 No.15846243 >>15846180 so bitter lol

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 01:49:35 2020 No.15846276

>>15846170
>retards that don't know what they are doing and just eat low calorie leafs is propaganda
yes. there are retards that do retarded things. raw veganism is an example of this. there are plenty of high calorie and nutritious vegan meals you can eat.
>>15846180
>you are always harming the natural world
sure. you can't always be on the look out to make sure you don't harm or step on anything but that is not what I or most vegans are asking. veganism is about practicality and doing what we can to lessen the expenses. One person being vegan isn't saving the world. Veganism needs organization it is a political movement. I don't know where you are going off on all your hero talk just more conjecture and delusions as you are so hard pinned in ideology it looks like. There are practical things we can do to lessen our impact and assure our survival along with the rest of the planet. I don't know what your problem is. Why do you feel so offended? It seems like your only motive is "owning the libs."

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 02:02:29 2020 No.15846344 >>15846201 >GMOs and completely fake man-made plants are more natural than meat.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 02:10:42 2020 No.15846383

>>15846344
gmos are fine. and what do you mean by natural? humans adapt to new ways of living? are you a hypocrite and consider cooking your meat and the preservatives that are put into it natural or do you hunt your own meat and eat it raw (as stupid and bad for you as that is)? Poison is "natural" do you eat poison? nature isn't a static thing. "man made" is part of nature. you have no legs to stand on bud.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 02:42:42 2020 No.15846557

>>15846383
You're being disingenuous. You know what natural means. NATURAL FOR HUMANS TO EAT. Do you think I mean poison? Of course you don't.

Humans adapt, but we are talking about fundamentals here. Veganism is the most modern diet ever conceived and we have obviously not adapted to it given the short time. It's ridiculous to think this.

I actually do eat raw meat and source it correctly like every single animal does. Any "study" telling you this is unhealthy is retarding your perception of reality. There is nothing especially unique about humans that they alone would not be able to eat raw meat. Our digestive system is extremely acidic, more like a scavenger's in PH than even a carnivores.

If you eat raw meat, which I encourage you to do, you will notice it is digested EXTREMELY easily. There is no "bloating" that people experience often with meals and it doesn't "sit" in your stomach. If you eat raw fat straight you will feel satiated and content. Hard to describe. I wish people could know what I'm talking about, because the experience is enough.

Sadly hardly anyone does it or knows about it. I started doing it because eating carbs makes me feel terrible and gives my body an inflammatory reaction. Couldn't go vegan even if I wanted to.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:08:44 2020 No.15846665

>animals feel pain the same as us
>they want to avoid pain just like us
>golden rule
>don't eat animals

Appeals to nature are worthless because all of us (rightfully) contradict nature whenever we can do better for ourselves.

As for nutrition the case for meat being necessary is only pushed by a minority of conspiracy theory crackpots, if you ask the medical community for a mainstream majority consensus they'll come back and tell you that meat gives you heart disease and cancer (the most common causes of death) and that eating plants is fine.

As for net animal deaths they are lower on a vegan diet.

As for environment the universal consensus is that veganism is better since it uses less land, less resources, less water, causes fewer carbon emissions, less pollution. The line about veganism being worse for the environment than eating meat is pure fiction.

As for 'organic grass fed' if all meat was made this way then the world would be mostly vegan anyway because there would not be enough meat for all the people. If we continue producing meat like we do now to meet the demands of the worlds humans for regular and cheap meat then we will destroy the environment so much that humans will go extinct. There are many other causes of our coming ecological catastrophe but the calculus on meat is clear: just don't eat it, and then the problem is much smaller.

We cannot continue to feed the world on meat, we can continue to feed them on plants.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:29:25 2020 No.15846729

>>15846665

There is no such thing as contradicting nature. One does not get outside of nature via techne, by doing things within nature, since one is already in nature. Ways of doing things are part of nature. Nature is the world, tautology. And since everything is nature, various confused desires to "escape", to be somehow good (by not eating meat, say, an idiocy which goes back to the Pythagoreans among sundry Pajeets and other ascetics), are really only desires to improve one's subjective experience of nature, which is the most possible.

Your middle paragraph is also idiotic. I assure you that net animal deaths, however one parses them, hold steady at one hundred per cent.

There is also a legitimate hedonist argument to be made: the life lived without eating meat is not worth living. To be some scrawny long-haired faggot, or otherwise some bald weirdo who falsely believes himself to be doing real good, because the animals. Because the animals, of all things.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:34:45 2020 No.15846755

>>15846276
>>15846276
im not offended. im only explaining my point of view, for gods sake. why are you implying im offended?.
im pinned in ideology but the guy who propose veganism as a political movement is totally off of ideology.
>lessen our impact
there is always impact. you can say what is, from your point of view. a better impact than another. but eventually somebody or some species gonna be disadvantaged because your decision. its just like that. its naive to think we are gonna make survive every species of earth till the sun explode.
my point with the hero thing is that go direct you wanna save the animals because you like the idea of YOU "saving the animals and the world with it" not becuase you really care, in the end, what is really an animal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:39:05 2020 No.15846770 >>15845328 We should eat niggers and kikes instead of benevolent animals. Niggers and kikes are not sentient beings. BTW to mods, this is a lit post and shouldn't be censored! Thanks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:40:49 2020 No.15846775 >>15845516 I agree with you but that doesn’t make me a vegan,

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:41:13 2020 No.15846776 >>15845328 animals are yummy doe it's not like i'm offending God by eating them either

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:43:24 2020 No.15846787 >>15846776 Animals have a rich internal mental life unlike Jews and Blacks. It is wrong to eat animals. .

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:45:29 2020 No.15846796

I agree intensive animal agriculture is immoral, but I don't think the solution is veganism.

In my country at least, this means eating a diet of, essentially, mostly imported grains, nuts, seeds, and even fruits. And this is not even suffecient nutritionally. You then need to take literal pills and drugs to not suffer severe health concequences.

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but we can still do the best we can. What I do is only buy local (i.e. from my country, try to go farmers markets, roadside stalls etc) fruits and vegetables, I don't really eat grains my main carb is potatoes/sweet potatoes, and then for nutrition I don't eat meat really but instead shellfish, and actual fish. eating like this will cause huge cravings for animalfat though, so every now and then I stock up on massive gallon jars of raw milk from this farm in my city, but it's like a 40 minutes drive so sometimes I just buy the normal milk.

anyway all animals are going to die, so it's not killing them that's the problem. killing them just kills them sooner than they expected to die, and the animal doesn't exist after its death so it can't miss out on life. so the way I see it, if the death contains little suffering, it's not *that* bad.

>tl:dr steam children (young boys) in pit ovens and feast on their buttocks

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:49:27 2020 No.15846810

>>15846796
Cows, sheep, horses, and chicken are all noble and sacred creatures. To eat them is worse than cannibalizing Jews or Blacks. Do you think I am joking? You are a sick man. What we need is factory farms for niggers and kikes. There's nothing wrong with it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:50:45 2020 No.15846812 >>15846787 well jews and blacks are at least people and killing innocents is wrong animals are not and they have committed the crime of being very tasty

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:52:36 2020 No.15846817

>>15846812
>are at least people
I would contest this point.
>killing innocents is wrong
There is nothing more innocent than a benevolent cow, chicken, sheep, or horse. They are noble creatures who live life with honesty and benevolence.
>animals are not and they have committed the crime of being very tasty
You think and speak like a nigger. One's taste can easily change with conditioning/habits.
Pesceterianism is a good middle-way because fish lack metacognitive awareness. I am open to the possibility of factory farming Jews and blacks though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:53:06 2020 No.15846821 >>15845516 Nobilifying animals just because we find them cute sometimes is infantile. They kill and eat each other, or not, as their nature requires them to.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:55:51 2020 No.15846831

>>15846821
The noble thing is to not interfere in the business of animals. They live life earnestly. A wolf kills a rabbit for her family because that's what she was adapted to do.
Humans are smarter, and fish give all the necessary minerals and protein needed. Fish are generally less self-aware than mammals and birds, and I've looked at the studies.
The only issue with fish are mercury levels.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 03:57:30 2020 No.15846840 >>15846817 >Pesceterianism is a good middle-way because fish lack metacognitive awareness. I am open to the possibility of factory farming Jews and blacks though. 4chan is a truly special place

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:03:43 2020 No.15846867

>>15846817
I'm 100 percent European.
I don't how intelligent you think animals are either because they cannot think using abstract concepts. When people say that we are made in the image of God this is what they mean. Our mind was made in His image, not animals. Jews and Blacks are at least able to think in the abstract most of the time.
There is also nothing inherently 'honest', 'benevolent' or 'noble' about eating grass all day long. Have you ever seen a Sheep in real life? They eat grass all day and sleep. If you saw a human do the human equivalent of that you'd call them lazy and a waste of space.
We are not animals, there is a severe and impossible to bridge gap between us and the rest of life on Earth.
The only reason why we have this new veganism is because of city slickers who've never lived in regional or rural areas and have never even seen one of these dumb as shit animals in real life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:03:44 2020 No.15846868 >>15846831 Again, infantile idiocy. You can no more blame a human for a slaughterhouse than a lion for its last kill. You nobilify a subject which doesn't deserve such.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:10:21 2020 No.15846896

>>15846867
You are an idiot and brainwashed by a Christcuck mentality, which you picked up due to ressentiment for your information. All mammals and birds have the rudimentary beginnings of autobiographical self. It is a matter of degrees. We learned pigs, crows, dogs, and many others have a "theory of mind", and I suspect we will see more from even more mammals and birds.
I don't like veganism. I think pescetarianism is better.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:11:26 2020 No.15846901 >>15846868 The difference is the lion is in the position where it has no choice but to kill in the manner it does. Human beings are more complex in that they can choose salmon over cows. Salmon are not self-aware the way cows are.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:12:42 2020 No.15846907

>>15846810
>Cows, sheep, horses, and chicken

dude I spent a lot of time on farms, farming etc and I can tell you 100% all of those animals, up to, and including horses, are fucking dumb as fuck and live in their own piss and shit and would literally die without humans dealing with every one of their retarded needs

also kikes are like 3x smarter than nigs

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:13:44 2020 No.15846914 >>15846901 farmed salmon is some of the cruelest most nutritionally void "food" on the planet

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:14:12 2020 No.15846917 >>15846867 Vegans base morality on suffering, not on cognition.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:14:39 2020 No.15846922

>>15846907
You are filled with arrogance and hubris, unable to look at the pigs, cows, sheep, horses, and chicken in an honest way. They have the rudimentary beginnings of autobiographic self, hence why they can be befriended and bonded with. However, salmon and other fish lack metacognitive awareness, so eating them is the lesser evil. In fact, they are more nutritious than both beef and poultry, but there is an issue with mercury poisoning which the modern industrialized world brought.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:15:49 2020 No.15846929 >>15846914 Salmon lack metacognitive awareness, autobiographical self, or "theory of mind" unlike mammals and birds, so it is preferable to eat them instead. >>15846917 Cognition and suffering are inextricably tied, you vegetable brain dumbass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:17:10 2020 No.15846938 >>15846929 no when I was a fish i still understood myself and wanted the fish girls, you haven't properly looked at the ocean

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:17:42 2020 No.15846940 >>15846922 >autobiographic self autobiographical* self

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:19:04 2020 No.15846947

>>15846896
>C-Christcuck mentality!
>S-some animals know that they are alive!
You've completely ignored what I said. I said that animals will never be able to think with abstract concepts, which they can't. You're saying that some groups know that they are alive and that they have brains that facilitate basic team work and problem solving to achieve an immediate physical goal.
I fail to see how that means they somehow have even the basic ability to think in the abstract.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:19:25 2020 No.15846949

>>15846938
You have to rely on a combination of peer-reviewed journals, behavioral studies, honest observation, and honest inquiry. The 50s Skinnerian view on animals as automatons that respond to stimuli has been proven false in the case of mammals and birds, but I think it is largely true for fish. Fish are largely automaton-like.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:19:32 2020 No.15846950 >>15846901 So humans should cuck themselves out of what they want and sometimes need because global warming, or some hedonic imperative for the feelings of inferior, abject subjects. Nah, fuck that gay white guilt shit. Pass the veal.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:20:53 2020 No.15846954

>>15846947
>I said that animals will never be able to think with abstract concepts, which they can't.
Given how all mammals and birds have autobiographical self, they do use abstractions as many behavioral studies show.
All abstractions begin with a sense of self.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:21:16 2020 No.15846957 >>15846949 fish have nervous systems, there is no reason to think they aren't conscious

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:23:44 2020 No.15846968 >>15846132 >look up what any major health organisation says You realise it’s literally illegal to make your kids vegan in Belgium because of the health problems it causes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:24:31 2020 No.15846972 >>15846954 They have that only to facilitate their immediate physical goals. You are stretching if you call that basic abstract thought, let alone complex abstract thought.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:25:02 2020 No.15846974 >>15846957 Plants have nervous systems of a sort. They can at least react to attacks and thus feel.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:25:04 2020 No.15846975 >>15846957 Crayfish and fish have a very rudimentary kind of nervous system with a ganglion as brain. A ganglion is not really a brain in the proper sense of the world. It's just a few neurons and doesn't resemble the complex mammalian or avian brain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:26:21 2020 No.15846986 >>15846831 >The noble thing is to not interfere in the business of animals. We are animals and part of the food chain too. Why should the circle of life exclude humans or have them so mentally sanitised and removed from the natural processes?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:26:37 2020 No.15846987 >>15846972 Given how all mammals and birds have autobiographical self and metacognitive awareness, how do you not know they cannot appreciate the sunset on an aesthetic level? They have the cognitive arsenal for abstract thought.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:27:01 2020 No.15846988 >>15846929 Don’t lie to yourself, there is no way to know what goes on in a salmons mind just like you can’t a cows or even another humans.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:28:34 2020 No.15846992

>>15846986
Your arguments can be used for cannibalizing your own kind too. In fact, crayfish cannibalize one another, so why shouldn't humans do that to one another? Why "sanitise" yourself in that regard?
It is better for spiritual/religious purposes to opt for fish over mammals and birds. Mammals and birds are pretty much close to humans in terms of abstractions and self-awareness.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:29:11 2020 No.15846995 >>15846132 >Look up what any major health organization has to say Here are the health organizations that are not run by Seventh Day Adventists. https://pastebin.com/g72uMQr9

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:29:47 2020 No.15846996

>>15846988
Peer-reviewed behavioral studies, comparative neuroanatomy, and my own experiences have led me to believe cows are very sophisticated creatures. Eating fish is better than cows because they lack the cognitive arsenal and behavioral evidence to indicate self-awareness or the use of abstractions.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:30:17 2020 No.15846999

>>15846974
Plants don't have a nervous system but it is possible they are conscious, it is impossible at present to know.
>>15846975
Fish are not even a real biological category, all tetrapods are literally a subset of lobefinned fish, we are more similar to each other than they are to sharks genetically. Their nervous systems might not be as complicated as higher mammals but they are not that different from many reptiles. Then there are animals like the cephalopods which have clearly independently created their own versions of intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:31:37 2020 No.15847004 >>15846987 You are a city slicker through and through. You have never seen a sheep or cow in a field before. All they do is eat grass, shit, sleep and on occasion they fuck. I will never concede that they have the capacity for abstract thought.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:32:37 2020 No.15847009

>>15846999
Crayfish and many fish in general have a very barebone neural structure with ganglion as "brains", which is just a few neurons. I sincerely doubt fish even have an autobiographical self, and they are just blindly responding to stimuli without the capacity to reflect on it.
Discussing amphibians and reptiles is more difficult, but I think eating insects and snakes are fine too.
Crayfish are also not self-aware.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:33:47 2020 No.15847014

>>15845328
Just have meat only occasionally instead of every single meal like people do noe a days. I have it once or twice a week for dinner, which allows me to buy the most ethical and best quality possible.
I've raised and killed live stock as a kid and so i understand that the animal was bred to be eaten but it doesn't mean it shouls be treated with cruelty. Not to mention that industrial meat production is unsustainable.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:34:14 2020 No.15847016

>>15847004
I have gone to farms, even did WWOOFing, and I believe sheep and cows have the capacity to aesthetically appreciate certain things, such as scenic sights or music. They do have the rudimentary beginnings of abstract thought and a narrative history.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:36:27 2020 No.15847028

>>15847004
>>15847016
Why not just acknowledge yourself as a murderer? It's not too late to begin the process of purifying oneself.
Pigs, cows, sheep, and chicken are all self-aware and sophisticated beings who are better than many human beings. In retrospect, slaughtering and eating criminal blacks would have had less moral issues.
Imagine if people like Floyd were used for meat purposes instead of just buried? It is a better use of resources, and one can spare the benevolent farm animals as a consequence.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:36:38 2020 No.15847031 >>15847016 Dude, you're just projecting your humanity onto them. Look a real life sheep in it's stupid fucking eyes and you'll see that they are nothing like us.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:37:02 2020 No.15847034

>>15847009
self-awareness I believe is a myth. We are not self-aware because the concept is incoherent. We make a model of versions of our own brains. Animals all do this too, they model the world and they distinguish themselves as a part in it, there is no difference but complexity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:40:36 2020 No.15847046 >>15846996 Adults are much less sophisticated than children but it’s seen as crueler to harm them.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:41:18 2020 No.15847050

>>15847031
You are an idiot full of anthropodenialism. You have to look at the sheep beyond human narrative constructs, and you'll see they are more sophisticated than what you think. They can appreciate the natural scenic beauties and more, and you can even befriend them.
>>15847034
> We make a model of versions of our own brains. Animals all do this too, they model the world and they distinguish themselves as a part in it, there is no difference but complexity.
Right, I am arguing there is a degree of complexity. ALSO, I am saying fish do not do this. They do not model the world and distinguish themselves as a part of it. They blindly respond to stimuli.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:42:10 2020 No.15847057 >>15845795 Only it's inneficient caloricly, unsustainable globally/enviormentally and the modern culture of eating hormone full meat with every meal is also unhealthy. No chicken should ever cost 1$/kg . Eat meat less often and better quality

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:44:58 2020 No.15847067

>>15847050
>They do not model the world and distinguish themselves as a part of it.
they clearly do or they couldn't function at all, they wouldn't be able to act int the world
> They blindly respond to stimuli.
the word 'blindly' here I assume refers to consciousness and there is no way to know if they are or aren't aware

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:45:38 2020 No.15847072 >>15847050 "Human narrative constructs" are the only ones that matter. I don't give a fuck about what an animal thinks about it because it's literally nothing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:47:03 2020 No.15847080 >>15847034 >i am not self aware and so i wash my hands of any responsability for the shit i do You're a faggot and nihilism was a mistake

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:48:38 2020 No.15847089 File: 41 KB, 346x544, steak guide.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] After eating a lot of different steaks I've come to the conclusion that I prefer medium or even medium-well. I know it's not fashionable, but that's how it is.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:49:51 2020 No.15847095

>>15847067
Again, let me reiterate, we can make deductions based on comparative neuroanatomy, peer-reviewed behavioral studies, and more. Based on my impartial studies, all mammals and birds mentally represent the world and also represent themselves as a part of it. However, fish and crayfish do not do this because 1) they don't have a brain in the proper sense of the word, they have ganglion which is like only a few clumped neurons, and 2) behavioral studies indicate their working memory and capacity to store memories is very limited and they essentially lack an autobiographical self.
It is preferable to eat salmon instead of cows or chicken. Salmon is also more nutritious and rich. If farming methods for fish improve, it is best to outlaw all eating of mammals and birds and opt for fish instead.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:51:56 2020 No.15847101

>>15847072
The key point is "narrative". All mammals and birds have a narrative. They view themselves as a part of a series of events. They have the capacity for introspection, hence why you can befriend them even. They even appreciate the beauty of the nature world.
Fish think literally nothing, but cows, sheep, chicken, and pigs do think about advanced topics.
Fish are like niggers in many respects.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:52:51 2020 No.15847104 >>15845328 Consider the lobster by David Foster Wallace. Just the title essay.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:55:12 2020 No.15847114

>>15847104
Giving lobsters moral consideration is retarded. Lobsters do not have the capacity to reflect on suffering in relationship to autobiographical self or even form abstractions unlike mammals and birds. In a sense, lobsters do not suffer, and one can consider them like a moving vegetable in many regards.
Caring about fish, lobsters, or crayfish is cucked onions shit. To place them on the same level as pigs, cows, or chicken is retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:58:59 2020 No.15847131 >>15847089 You sicken me

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 04:59:18 2020 No.15847132 >>15845733 your form is just like any others. Your life is the same as that of a clamp, you little shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:00:23 2020 No.15847138 I feel like the more intelligent an anti-vegan is the more mystical they start to sound. This may be because any moral system based on material reality and plain suffering will inevitably lead to veganism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:01:54 2020 No.15847144 >>15847138 Why don't you cannibalize random human beings, huh?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:02:03 2020 No.15847145 >>15847131 I know, I know. It's the done thing to order rare or medium-rare. I just don't like the texture in the middle as much.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:05:31 2020 No.15847165

>>15845735
This is a (or 'the') classic. Singer knew what was up way back in the seventies.

I'm just passing by this thread, but as a vegan anon I can tell you that it's not hard to be a vegan. Nor is it unhealthy. There are top performing athletes living on a plant based diet.

Anyone even remotely interested in ethics should read up on veganism and the philosophy involved. Singer is a great place to start.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:05:49 2020 No.15847167 >>15847138 the utilitarian morality of vegans actually points to suicide because you can't exist without harming other beings, especially in industrial society

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:07:42 2020 No.15847175 >>15847101 >fish think literally nothing how do you know that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:08:31 2020 No.15847182 >>15847138 Vegans also tend to be middle class which means their lifestyles cause more suffering to animals that redneck white trash who hunt.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:08:46 2020 No.15847183 >>15847114 lobsters do suffer, fucking retard

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:14:12 2020 No.15847202
File: 227 KB, 1024x537, grilled lobster with garlic butter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15847114
>To place them on the same level as pigs, cows, or chicken is retarded.

But lobsters are delicious. Just as tasty as the other animals you name.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:14:18 2020 No.15847203

>>15847175
I rely on a combination of peer-reviewed journals, behavioral studies, honest observation, and honest inquiry.
>>15847175
Suffering, in the way we speak of it, needs a being with the capacities of metacognitive awareness or the rudimentary beginnings of autobiographical self. Otherwise, one cannot reflect on the suffering and render it in relationship to a "self", so roughly speaking, the suffering then doesn't exist. Therefore, fish and lobsters cannot really suffer since it's just blind reflexive responses without reflecting on the experience to render it as actual.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:15:53 2020 No.15847211

>>15847202
It should be outlawed to eat mammals and birds. People should be allowed only to eat fish and crustaceans. I am ambivalent about reptiles and amphibians, but I think eating snakes may be fine too.
I think eating black prisoners is less morally contentious than eating a sacred pig or cow.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:18:48 2020 No.15847226

>>15847183
Meant to tag you here:
>>15847203
I have to go to bed now.
I think both vegans and pro-mammals&poultry eaters are idiots. You are both retarded scum. Pescetarian is the best approach, subhuman trash. You have the intellect of nigger hooligans and blind automaton fish.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:19:51 2020 No.15847230

>>15847203
You can't nullify suffering only because it isn't reflected on by a subject. You are basically saying only adult humans can really suffer, thus reducing all the suffering in the world to mere blind reflexes. Suffering is there, agony is real.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:21:51 2020 No.15847241

>>15847230
>You are basically saying only adult humans can really suffer,
No, I am saying only mammals and birds suffer, you complete buffoon. Learn to follow an argument. I do not think fish and crustaceans are on the cognitive level of mammals and birds. I have relied on behavioral studies, comparative neuroanatomy, and my own experiences to arrive at this moral judgment. I have to go to bed now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:25:07 2020 No.15847256 >>15847241 cognitive level doensn't have anything to do with suffering. Good night.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:31:21 2020 No.15847286

This thread shows how much the quality of /lit/ has dropped over the years. Posting about veganism is a litmus test for a community's average intelligence, and the marker for 'retarded' is when people start talking about how delicious their rare steak was or post links to pubmed about nutrition. I'm not even vegan but interested in both ethics and diet, and this is just embarrassing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:40:09 2020 No.15847335 >>15847286 Happily, the slaughterhouses shall churn on in spite of your irrlevance, and be morally correct in doing so. Animals are not proper objects of ethics, and you are incapable of mounting a proper argument to that effect. Animals are things.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:42:07 2020 No.15847347 >>15847286 Veganism and vegetarianism are just middle class religion replacements for pompous idiots to pontificate about.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:43:07 2020 No.15847352 >>15845328 >watching animal abuse makes me angry Don't watch it then?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:43:49 2020 No.15847355 >>15847335 I did not state any argument. The fact that you inferred one from a post criticising the thread in general shows that you entered the conversation with an agenda. Very low IQ unemployment man.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:44:49 2020 No.15847363 >>15847352 >don't like slavery/theft/degeneracy/anything >don't look at it! Imagine being this slow.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:46:41 2020 No.15847368

>>15845328
Pythagoras was a vegetarian and advocated for it on account of people's souls migrating into animals
But idk, just doesn't seem healthy to me
If you want to exist you will destroy life to fuel yourself, veganism is just a cope and you should own up to what you are doing

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:46:55 2020 No.15847370 File: 435 KB, 1200x1500, roast-chicken-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15847286 Got some chicken if the rare steak is a bit much for you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:50:34 2020 No.15847376 >>15847335 Give argument why animals are things and thus no moral entity. Pro tip: you can't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:57:37 2020 No.15847394 >>15847335 anyone is "things" to anybody.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:06:05 2020 No.15847414

>>15847355

Intellectual dishonesty pretending at objective neutrality. First of all, of course you stated an argument, you just mean to say that that one you stated is unrelated to the objection I raised, and clearly they aren't as you know because the whole thread, etc, you can do this yourself and let's not kid ourselves. Second, you draw a false implication in your second, third, everyone has an agenda and this is no bar to entering argumentation.

Fourth, your original claim that the quality of /lit/ has declined isn't even true itself in general terms over the past six years or so, notwithstanding the unfortunate presence of the single worst tripfag in the history of the entire website and corona making people go a bit stir crazy. People have detailed autistic discussions just such as these, in between the shitposts. Be quiet.

>>15847376

They are concatenations of atoms which do not resolve themselves into things called "human beings".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:15:01 2020 No.15847435 >>15847363 Keep looking if you want - you'll only torture yourself in the process and achieve nothing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:16:03 2020 No.15847437 >>15847352 >degeneracy Make friends and have sex

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:17:11 2020 No.15847440 >>15847437 meant for >>15847363

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:20:37 2020 No.15847457 >>15847414 muh uman bings = the best everything else = things Dare I say it, based

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:23:24 2020 No.15847471 >>15845340 Because I can decide that harming dogs or cats is wrong and eating cows or chickens is fine and impose that view on everyone around me without caring about its internal consistency.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:31:55 2020 No.15847501 >>15847471 Harming insects is fine though, or plants? You are literally just drawing the line at different arbitrary points, there are people who only eat fish because they don't show "emotions" lol

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:36:39 2020 No.15847510

>>15845340
We can see that animals have the capacity to feel joy and pain and experience suffering the same way we do. They also clearly don’t want to die. Knowingly causing pain and suffering to a conscious emotional living being unnecessarily is sadistic and wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:37:42 2020 No.15847515 >>15845352 >necessary lm

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:39:04 2020 No.15847522 >>15845385 assuming you’re right about that your argument is: >it’s okay to kill if you treat your victim nicely before you do it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:40:17 2020 No.15847527 >>15847501 >You are literally just drawing the line at different arbitrary points, All points are arbitrary - why should I not impose my own? >Harming insects is fine though, or plants? Yes because I don't give a shit about ants or cacti.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:44:28 2020 No.15847541 >>15847527 idk I just think that type of thing is silly you draw up your own little moral map so you can feel like a good boy when you conform to your own arbitrary rules, might as well feel good for not killing and eating humans

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:46:05 2020 No.15847550 >>15847541 >you draw up your own little moral map so you can feel like a good boy when you conform to your own arbitrary rules Literally everyone on the fucking planet does this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:47:29 2020 No.15847555 >>15847550 I still think it's dumb Everyone is stupid but me

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:50:17 2020 No.15847562 >>15845328 I think Brigid Brophy has some writing on the topic.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:20:27 2020 No.15847950

>>15847414
>muh speciesism

>>15847501
It's about wether they can suffer or not. Fish suffer pain when being caught. Generally speaking a central nervous system is a logical place to draw the line.

It is immoral to cause a living entity to suffer if you have the choice to avoid it. The animals you eat suffer because of it. Eat plants.

Fact: you also help saving the planet by switchting to a plant based diet.

People screeching that onions is causing forests to be burned are not aware that something like 80% of the onions grown is fed to animals that are later slaughtered for their meat. Terribly inefficient. The destruction of forests for onions is because people eat meat, not because people go vegan.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:25:09 2020 No.15847975

>>15847950
I applaud the compassion behind veganism, but the idea that we can ever reduce suffering or animal destruction in our food production systems is pure harmful fantasy.

Everything humans do, whether they mean to or not, causes harm to other species we are competing with. The only way to end all human sourced animal suffering is to end humanity totally. And even then the animals would just go back to preying on each other.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:25:34 2020 No.15847977 >>15847950 proof that going vegan turns you into a faggot

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:26:45 2020 No.15847985
File: 44 KB, 340x512, 9033C7AA-4493-442C-A11F-BFA3E8BA896A.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15845328
Don’t know if you’ll see this because there’s so many posts already, but this is one of the first, and probably one of, if not the best book on Vegan ethics.

Written by Savitri Devi, similarly one of the most interesting people of the 20th century. She moved to India and became a Hindu after becoming a National Socialist because she wanted to get back in touch with her Aryan ancestors, so the book is also pretty based on some other issues, but it’s main concern is Veganism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:31:16 2020 No.15848014 >>15845939 Patently false.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:32:27 2020 No.15848020 >>15847985 >read this spook by a woman

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:36:34 2020 No.15848045 >>15845913 Gaia? More like>>15845931 gay I lol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:39:49 2020 No.15848061 File: 594 KB, 524x700, 819C33BA-DCAC-42A8-862F-820801AE5DC2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15848020 Sorry bro, Devi is simultaneously the most based/crazy mother fucker out there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:40:07 2020 No.15848063 >>15845913 Gaia? More like gay I lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:40:35 2020 No.15848065 Animals don't and can't suffer because they're not conscious. It's as simple as that. Factory farming is still evil though, for the same reason why clearing an ancient woodland for no other reason than material gain is evil.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 08:40:53 2020 No.15848068 File: 81 KB, 850x400, B79B164D-6D1B-456B-AF48-4EA584B83F5A.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15848061

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 09:13:07 2020 No.15848238 >>15848065 >Animals don't and can't suffer because they're not conscious. the loathing I feel for cunts like you is unspeakable. unspeakable. I hate this gay faggot nigger earth and the droids I have to share it with.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 09:25:58 2020 No.15848326

>>15845328
I've tried to be vegetarian for 1 year. It was okay. Only problem, is that if you do a lot of sport, you'll be frustrated because you are at a disadvantage compared to others who eat meat. Now i'm mafist. I eat meat, but not mammals. I would prefer a better computerize.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 09:26:25 2020 No.15848331 >>15845328 those who cannot kill an animal for food are cucks, house pets, vegetables, slaves.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 09:40:47 2020 No.15848400 >>15847975 It is neither harmful nor fantasy. If we can inflict 50% less suffering by adjusting our lifestyle in a relatively modest way then it is worth doing, even if the other 50% of suffering remains uncured for the rest of time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 09:43:06 2020 No.15848414 >>15848061 >>15848068 Crazier than Ayn Rand?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 09:53:33 2020 No.15848483

>>15846755
>>lessen our impact
>there is always impact
do you fucking read? there are practical things we can do to lessen the impact.
we breed these animals so that it can keep up with the demand for people to eat them.
>you like the idea of you saving the animals and the world
uh projection? and what are you arguing for exactly? no change? keep things the way they are? because that is unsustainable. do you think everything is just dandy? what do you fight for exactly?
you haven't really given any arguments you have no legs to stand on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 09:57:23 2020 No.15848517 >>15846045 The meat industry is objectively and incontestibly far worse for the planet than the grain industry. It's not even close.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 09:58:47 2020 No.15848533

>>15847241

Suffering isn't connected to cognitive capacity though, it's about the presence of absence of a Central Nervous System. We can debate about things like oysters, sure, but for the vast majority of what's at stake here - cows, chickens, fish, pigs - there's no question at all that they can experience pain and suffering.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animal-emotions/202006/do-animals-think-or-feel

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 10:00:33 2020 No.15848547
File: 80 KB, 694x500, 3A0255C4-B7D2-4C4B-B130-DBEFD86E014E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15848414
She’s was a life long National Socialist and extreme anti-semite from the age of ~20 onwards, and a Vegan from am even earlier age, despite being White moved to India, became a Hindu and married a Indian guy (who she insisted was Aryan) to get back in touch with her Aryan roots. She also worshiped an ancient Egyptian sun cult and wrote a good few books about it, and she was always surrounded by her cats (pick related, a cat on her back), so she was literally a crazy old cat lady. During the allied occupation of Germany she moved back to Europe to spread Nazi propaganda and work with various Nazi underground movements.

Despite this she had a master’s degree and Ph.D. in maths and philosophy, and spoke several European and non-European languages fluently.

Rand doesn’t even have a look-in on her insanity.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 10:02:13 2020 No.15848559

>>15847975
Of course we can reduce it. Abolish factory farming and stop eating animal products. We breed these animals ourselves to keep up with the demand. Well uh that is something we can hopefully stop some day. There are things we can do you just don't like it because it questions how you have been living for most of your life.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 10:07:39 2020 No.15848592

>>15846947

Why would a capacity to think in terms of abstract concepts be the only thing that matters when evaluating whether we can morally justify inflicting violence and suffering upon them? They don't need abstract concepts to feel pain or loss. In fact, even if we accepted that they couldn't conceptualise like that, that would actually imply that they experience these states in a much more intense and unmediated way, which is even worse given how much pain we systematically inflict on them.

>>	Sage Mon Jul 13 10:08:58 2020 No.15848598 >>15845721 Source: just trust me bro

>>	Sage Mon Jul 13 10:11:47 2020 No.15848612 >>15845385 Watch Earthlings, Land of Hope and Glory, Dominion and I doubt you would still have the same opinion. They’re all free to watch on YouTube

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 10:39:02 2020 No.15848754

Why does veganism make everyone seethe so hard LOL. Even people of the so called smartest board offer the same weak arguments and ethics that they might not even believe in as normies. "It tastes good!" "Top of the food chain baby!" "I am an ubermench because I shop at the meat aisle!" and so on. You all have the nerve to say this because you are detached from the entire process you don't do any of the dirty work. And when the fact arises that you are doing harm to animals, to your health, and the the environment you get so emotional and all of a sudden become nihilists. But you are only nihilists when veganism is the topic though lol. Just stop consuming animal products it really isn't that hard for most of you.
>It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 10:42:02 2020 No.15848767

>>15847286
This desu. I'm a vegetarian myself and there's plenty of creative justifications to eating meat that people could consider, but finding a meat eater/vegan (especially on /lit/) that doesn't just want to spout pure ideology in any discourse of its ethics is a rare thing.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 10:59:33 2020 No.15848871

>>15845516
I agree with you. I think most people resist this argument because of how fundamental it is to their behavior that any change is bad.
Personally I don't eat meat unless it comes from an ethical source. IE - I hunt it myself.
I think anyone unable or unwilling to kill the animal they eat is a coward.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:02:34 2020 No.15848886 >>15845560 The meat industry as a whole is one of the largest contributors to pollution, deforestation and ecological destruction. The amount of energy needed to raise a calf to slaughter is multitudes greater than the plant-based alternative.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:07:47 2020 No.15848913

>>15846557
There's no such thing as "adaptation" to a diet. You said it yourself - our stomach's are more like a scavenger's in Ph. Doesn't this imply that early humans are adapted to eat whatever was available? Now we don't have to eat whatever is available and we have the option to choose.
I am not a vegan but I am a hunter and I refuse to support the meat industry.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:09:13 2020 No.15848920 But what about the anti-nutrients and phytates??? (genuine question)

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:12:29 2020 No.15848940

>>15846729
A life lived without meat is not worth living?
How sad that makes the rest of your life sound, and the accompanying straw man reeks of projection over substance.
Also that other poster did not say he would reduce the percentage of animal deaths but that the total amount of animals dying would be lower. Which is true - considering how many animals are born into this world only to be slaughtered.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:13:52 2020 No.15848945 >>15848920 The whole point of veganism is that you sacrifice health and vitality and have really stinky farts for the sake of farm animals who only exist to be eaten and will be killed anyways If you didn't suffer you couldn't feel good about yourself

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:21:17 2020 No.15848986 >>15848945 You don't sacrifice health and vitality veganism is good for you. It also helps reverse the effects of heart disease/blood problems and diabetes. You also live longer.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:24:11 2020 No.15849003

>>15848986
That's a lie. Vegans are either frail cancer patients or fat, this is incredibly evident once they get older and their lifestyle has time to do damage
Hindus or whatever may be able to live vegan, but normal people should absolutely not do this - it's self flagellation

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:29:33 2020 No.15849038

>>15849003
Why are you lying?
>It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:31:26 2020 No.15849049 File: 401 KB, 447x438, 1594651394364.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15849038 >American Dietetic Association Yes I will take dieting advice from AMERICANS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:33:59 2020 No.15849064 >>15849049 Well Americans basically do the opposite of what they recommend and eat the opposite of a vegan diet...so yeah.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:38:22 2020 No.15849080 File: 106 KB, 768x960, xJohnny-thumb-900x1125-3067810.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Gs12Kt9TLd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why yes I'm vegan, how could you tell?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:40:41 2020 No.15849094

>>15848754
>and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.
Is there actually any proven causal relationship between animal products and these diseases, or is this a misleading correlation that arises from the fact that vegans necessarily eat more vegetables and have to care about their nutrition?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 11:50:14 2020 No.15849139 >>15849094 Yeah there is a positive relationship associated with higher meat consumption with heart disease and certain cancers.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj Mon Jul 13 11:55:05 2020 No.15849166 >>15849080 You know that’s a woman right?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 12:09:03 2020 No.15849243

Vegans are deficient in B12:
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987

Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700

Vegans have a worse memory compared to non vegans due to creatine deficiency in vegans:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118604
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278

Vegans have less gains compared to non vegans:
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/6/1032.full

Vegans are deficient in omega 3s:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16087975
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188209
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323090

Vegans are deficit in carnitine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753065
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1628441/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11043928

Vegans are deficient in iodine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12748410
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21613354

Vegans are deficient in iron due to the fact that iron from plant sources is less bioavailable than iron from meat sources:
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11269606

Vegans are deficient in vitamin A:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19103647
http://m.jn.nutrition.org/content/137/11/2346.full
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091118072051.htm
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/betacarotene.htm
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1545.full

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 12:12:56 2020 No.15849272 File: 163 KB, 1200x979, carlruiz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15849243 Wow, an intellectually dishonest gish galloping link spam copypasta. Strange that the same tactic used by creationists and holocaust deniers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 12:18:09 2020 No.15849304 >>15848061 No. Caring about muh feelings and muh morals and the heckin critters are the opposite of based. This board should convince you to be 100% amoral. Even the arguments against sex and masturbation here have nothing to do with morals.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 12:18:22 2020 No.15849305 >>15849272 >0% Vegetarian hmmm it's almost as if going fully on meat or full on vegtard is fucking stupid and you should eat a balanced diet like a normal human being

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 12:43:04 2020 No.15849471

>>15847256
>>15848533
No, you need some thalamocortical loops to in order to reflect on the pain and suffering, which renders it real. All mammals and birds have a degree of this, but fish and crustaceans don't because of ganglion. Fish and crustaceans cannot suffer in the proper sense of the word.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 12:44:06 2020 No.15849483 >>15849304 Kys, Faustian piece of shit. Slitting the throats of scumbag like you is the most moral.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 12:46:45 2020 No.15849497 >>15849272 >NOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS WITH EVIDENCE! YOU HAVE TO BE LIKE ME AND TAKE UP A WEIRD FAD DIET BECAUSE INTERNATIONAL CORPORATIONS TOLD YOU TO! lmfao retard

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 12:55:43 2020 No.15849561 >>15849483 >tries to refute his point >ends up reinforcing it Cope and pathetic.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:14:34 2020 No.15849690

>>15845340
Nature is good. All nature including humans plants and animals were born from the divine truth and represents order. Animals operate on the low level of existence because they can't understand or have spirituality like us humans. They should be treated with respect, appreciation, and admiration.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:16:25 2020 No.15849702 >>15845448 Nature is good. Anyone and everyone who "seeks to make the world a better place" is unabashedly evil.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:21:11 2020 No.15849729 >>15849561 I don't see the issue with macabre medical experiments or cannibalizing the wretched of this world like sadists, nihilists, niggers, and kikes. I am against harming innocent mammals and birds though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:24:02 2020 No.15849751 >>15849690 The only based take itt.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:25:45 2020 No.15849760

>>15849690
Most human beings were born from the darkness.
>>15849751
Due to vaccination, a lot of people born are genetic trash and deserve to die. What this world needs is a mass extinction event of despicable humans. This world would benefit from 99.9% of mankind going extinct.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:26:30 2020 No.15849764

>>15849702
What's good about animals eating each other alive when they're not living pointless lives and having most of their children die? Do you realize how nonsensical and idiotic the process of evolution is? It's apparent that it's a senseless meatgrinder upon any sort of examination

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:27:56 2020 No.15849781 >>15846149 g..good for you anon! keep eating raw meat! break the conditioning!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:32:22 2020 No.15849813 >>15849764 Nature is good. It is the state that all things should be. Offspring dies just like everything else. Trying to make sense of things is for morons. Again, anyone and everyone who "seeks to make the world a better place" is unabashedly evil.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:33:46 2020 No.15849827 You're all probably just fair weather Vegans

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:37:04 2020 No.15849855 >>15849813 >still just an appeal to nature You're coping by closing your eyes to the obvious horror of it. What makes nature good and what makes trying to do better evil?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:38:06 2020 No.15849866 >>15845376 >life is brutal, you are weak, and I am not. That is why I buy individually plastic wrapped steaks at Walmart

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:46:02 2020 No.15849922

>>15849855
There is no horror of it. It's normal. It is abnormal to live in total opposition to it. You aren't "trying to do better" you are trying to maximize how efficiently you can stimulate yourself while exerting the least amount of force. The world is not a better place just because you get to live longer and get to live without having to even try.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:47:05 2020 No.15849931 >>15849922 >depraved materialist Relying on the material world to figure out what is normal is retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:47:59 2020 No.15849940 >>15849922 >normal >abnormal That's still an appeal to nature. Why is it good? Stop giving in to the tyrant just because you see no immediate way out, coward.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:49:35 2020 No.15849949 >>15849931 None of what I said is materialist. You're reaching and grasping at straws in a fit of denial because you are dependent on the established system as it is in it's current state.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:50:29 2020 No.15849955 >>15849949 Nature includes more than what is perceived. There are many metaphysical or religious arguments for not eating flesh.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:52:58 2020 No.15849975

>>15849497
The point is not to find any piece of evidence to support your claim but to see what the best available balance of evidence says. One could just as easily pick out articles claiming meat is bad for you, the difference is they would have a much larger quantity of articles and the negative health effects would be much more severe (e.g. heart disease and cancer). If you take the sum of our current knowledge from all of the medical literature then the mainstream medical consensus is that people should eat less meat, eat more plants, and that plant based diets can be and usually are good for you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:54:03 2020 No.15849989 >>15849940 >Why is it good? It is good. This is the default. It is not my responsibility to prove that it is good, as I am not the one making the claim. The default is a given.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:55:05 2020 No.15849995 >>15849955 I didn't mention any of that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:57:59 2020 No.15850023 >>15849827 You misunderstand us, our entire case is that you should go vegan because it is relatively easy to do compared to the huge moral payoff it offers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:58:15 2020 No.15850027 >>15849995 I know you didn't mention any of that because you're an idiot. You fail to see how metaphysics ties into metaethics and normativity. Appeal to surface-level perception of nature is a very brainlet thing to do.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:58:28 2020 No.15850032 >>15849989 Stop baiting retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:00:18 2020 No.15850047 >>15850032 I'm not baiting, you're incapable of arguing your point. Nature is the default state. The default state needs no argument to support it's existence.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:02:17 2020 No.15850059 >>15850047 If you're not baiting then you're actually mentally retarded. Why is the default good? Where does nature end and unnaturality begin?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:02:37 2020 No.15850062 >>15850027 Appealing to vague concepts does absolutely nothing. You might as well have brought up the tarot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:02:59 2020 No.15850065 >>15845413 Aboriginals have the most amount of Neanderthal DNA

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:10:42 2020 No.15850137

>>15850059
"Unnaturality" begins when man starts to develop techniques with the main intent being to maximize how efficiently he can access stimuli. The default, norm, or standard, is literally the way things are, without intervention. To state that the default state of existence is incorrect is megalomaniacal.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:17:15 2020 No.15850193

>>15850137
Why isn't circumventing evolution the natural state for man? It exists this way so clearly it must be the default and therefore good.
>megalomaniacal
But making a judgement about what's unnatural isn't? It's not megalomaniacal, you're making a judgement about what's good as much as anyone else. Yours just happens to be retarded and nonsensical.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:25:15 2020 No.15850249 >>15850062 >vague concepts Read some philosophy, you retarded cunt. Why not read some Hume, Kant, Leibniz, and etc? You are philosophically illiterate.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:26:56 2020 No.15850262

>>15850193
You people are so fucking tiresome with this shit. Why this? Why that? Anyone who argues with questions is legitimately a fucking idiot. Asking stupid fucking questions about things that were never stated. I'm not making any judgements, I'm stating fact. The standard is good, the non-standard is evil. That is the default state of things.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:29:49 2020 No.15850282

>>15850249
I've read too much philosophy. It's all just vague obscure coping mechanisms. Wish it didn't occupy so much of my library. You're probably in your early twenties or late teens and have just discovered it, I used to be as enthusiastic as this, quit while you're ahead, it gives you nothing and takes up significant headspace.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:32:52 2020 No.15850313

>>15850262
>>15850282
>thinking hard and tiresome, grug give up
lmao, the absolute state of you
>The standard is good, the non-standard is evil. That is the default state of things.
this is a judgement
why do you think this way, what makes it "fact"?

also, Why isn't circumventing evolution the natural state for man? It exists this way so clearly it must be the default and therefore good.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:39:02 2020 No.15850356 >>15850313 >why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why Like a child pestering his father. Again, it isn't judgement to accept the standard as it is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:40:12 2020 No.15850370 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25663961-how-not-to-die doctor Gregor has written a few books

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:41:38 2020 No.15850382 >>15850356 how else am I going to understand your brilliant philosophy? it's a judgement to say that the "default" is good answer the last question, it seems like you're avoiding it because it destroys your entire retarded cunt position

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:47:14 2020 No.15850428

>>15850382
>how else am I going to understand your brilliant philosophy?
It isn't philosophy. Philosophizing serves only to stroke the ego.
>it's a judgement to say that the "default" is good
It is the absolute absence of judgement. I am literally not choosing.
>you're avoiding it because it destroys your entire retarded cunt position
I'm avoiding it because it's another fucking question too poorly worded to be addressed. Try making a statement for once in your fucking life instead of hiding everything behind barely structured questions you spineless fucking idiot.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:55:04 2020 No.15850496

>>15845340
If animal cruelty is permissible, and humans are animals, does this mean human cruelty is permissible? It really depends on who you ask. We can always default to the idea that life is inherently meaningless, and anything within our own best interests is permissible. If this is the case, then nothing is inherently wrong, and even the cruelest acts can be deemed permissible. The only way to solve this inaccuracy is to create an artificial framework for morality that can be applied to any conscious entity.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:55:17 2020 No.15850499
File: 70 KB, 600x793, identifying mistakes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15850428
>It is the absolute absence of judgement. I am literally not choosing.
>>15849813
>>15849702
>Nature is good.
yep, it's a judgement
in the future don't bother to state your braindead fuck opinions if you don't want to argue for them, you retarded cunt
>Try making a statement for once in your fucking life
circumventing evolution is the natural state for man; it exists this way so clearly it must be the default and therefore good
find fault in the previous statement

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:56:26 2020 No.15850508 File: 1.01 MB, 2048x2048, 104784088_10220257408919664_5234983784271793127_o.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15849038 >

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:06:25 2020 No.15850583

>>15850499
Accepting the default as it is is not judgment. If I told you I accepted that water were wet it would not have "judged" the water as being wet. Prove that "circumventing evolution" is the natural state. Define it instead of copy-pasting it all over the fucking thread verbatim. The fact that you're only using same specific words without elaboration leads me to believe you're just reciting something you heard some other moron say. I'd say don't bother replying, as this is going nowhere, but we both know your ego is far too bruised to forfeit having the last word. I have things to do and this is worth far less of my time already. Don't expect any more replies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:11:51 2020 No.15850638 >>15850428 Big brained thinking here. Are you perhaps the resident revolutionary philosopher, Horia Belcea?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:18:51 2020 No.15850704 >>15846098 mindlessly rejecting veganism is so fucking reddit

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:19:13 2020 No.15850709

>>15849064
>the opposite of a vegan diet is highly processed food
Basically the only way vegans can survive is on a concoction of highly processed foods and supplements. The vegans who don't do that are the ones that wind up with really bad problems usually only found in extreme poverty and famines.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:26:34 2020 No.15850782 >>15850709 >eating plants is dangerous lol you're such a FUCKING retard

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:29:41 2020 No.15850807 >>15850782 Eating only plants is dangerous, yes. That's why smart vegans also take supplements and use highly processed foods such as protein shakes, so they can avoid becoming sick from their diet.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:30:49 2020 No.15850818

>>15850583
>Accepting the default as it is is not judgment.
accepting and stating it's good are two very different things
>Prove that "circumventing evolution" is the natural state. Define it instead of copy-pasting it all over the fucking thread verbatim. The fact that you're only using same specific words without elaboration leads me to believe you're just reciting something you heard some other moron say.
fucking 75 IQ
it's not my position, I'm using your own logic to show how idiotic and vague your position is
how is it not natural for man to be above the rest of the natural world? that's what your philosophy hinges on
how exactly are you defining what's natural and what isn't? the point is that you claim it's a simple and obvious reality when actually it's not simple at all
>your ego is far too bruised
my ego isn't even at stake here; it's your position being discussed, because you've decided to put it forth

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:32:32 2020 No.15850840 >>15850807 >that's why I … [faggot nigger bullshit about something I've never done myself] keep talking shit faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:33:10 2020 No.15850850 >>15850840 >an edgy vegan 4chan breeds weird people

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:34:49 2020 No.15850867 >>15850850 >a retarded carnoid Where have I seen you before?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:37:20 2020 No.15850891

>>15850840
Poorly educated vegans often fail to replace necessary nutrients with supplements and processed foods. They also often fail to include complete proteins, and fail to recognise the symptoms of kwashiorkor or other diseases of malnutrition. Well educated vegans take supplements and use highly processed foods in order to avoid becoming sick in those ways.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:38:20 2020 No.15850899 >>15850891 >faggot trying to tell Hawaiians what Hawaii is like based on the brochure Shut the fuck up faggot

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:42:32 2020 No.15850939

>>15850899
Are you just worried I'll point out how many micro organisms vegans have to kill in order to supplement their diet enough to not be malnourished? I always find it funny that uneducated vegans are also unaware of the fungus and bacterial material killed in the process of making supplements. Regardless, vegans who do not want to be malnourished will use supplements and highly processed foods in order to avoid that, while diseases of malnutrition caused by a plant only diet are found among undereducated vegans who fail to understand you must supplement nutrients which cannot be obtained from plants alone.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:45:35 2020 No.15850966 >>15850939 >le microbes and rabbits killed by combine harvesters Every fucking time, you NPCs need a new script. Get patched.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:47:47 2020 No.15850981 >>15850966 based rabbit torturer

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:48:54 2020 No.15850990 >>15850981 >carnoid moralists lmao don't make me laugh

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:50:59 2020 No.15851005

>>15850966
>supplements are made by combine harvesters
It's also amazing the amount of undereducated vegans who refuse to take supplements created by cyanide being digested by bacteria for fear that they will be poisoned by cyanide. It makes me wonder if they understand plant sources of cyanide and if they can understand the basic process of digestion.
That tangential thought aside, well educated vegans will supplement and use highly processed foods in order to avoid malnutrition, while undereducated vegans who eat a plant only diet will be malnourished, and are often even more malnourished by eating plant only without complete proteins.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:55:05 2020 No.15851042 >>15851005 >he's still talking lmao oh no no no. shut the fuck up you faggot you don't know the first thing you're talking about. stop trying to sound cool, stop trying to impress people. you're fucking cringe to anyone whose actually taken the leap

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:55:59 2020 No.15851052 >>15850990 >he makes video tapes of crucified bunnies you need help anon

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:58:03 2020 No.15851063 >>15847510 They just have evolutionary programming to not want to die and to react to external stimuli (i.e.pain)

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:58:20 2020 No.15851065

>>15851042
>stop telling people how to avoid malnutrition
Well educated vegans will supplement and rely on highly processed foods to replace nutrients not found in a plant only diet, as a plant only diet will lead to malnutrition. A plant only diet will lead to even worse malnutrition if it fails to combine proteins to make a full protein. Well educated vegans will combine plant proteins to make a complete protein, and rely on supplementation and highly processed foods to avoid malnutrition.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:02:30 2020 No.15851093 >Be vegan >Feel good about not needlessly contributing to animal suffering >Live a healthy and balanced life Comfy.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:03:26 2020 No.15851100

>>15851063
>muh evolutionary programming
>I was evolutionarily programmed to scream when a blade's drawn across my throat lol it's all good bro
you're a fucking retard, stop reifying shit that doesn't exist, pain is pain, life forms screaming in agony are life forms screaming in agony, I hate you fucking nerd cunts so fucking much

>>15851065
shut up faggot, go talk that shit to someone who isn't already vegan and refuted everything you say

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:04:16 2020 No.15851106 >>15851093 >meanwhile his plastic shoes are poisoning oceans of fish

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:07:12 2020 No.15851123

>>15851100
>talk that shit to someone who isn't already vegan and refuted everything you say
It is still perfectly true that well educated vegans will rely on supplements and highly processed foods to avoid malnutrition. A plant only diet will lead to malnutrition, and a healthy vegan diet must supplement nutrients which cannot be obtained from a plant only diet, or cannot be obtained from plants without intensive processing.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:07:48 2020 No.15851128
File: 264 KB, 1024x766, DSCN19234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15851100
Can you account for your whereabouts on July 8th at 10pm? A malnourished man matching your description was seen near the scene of the crime, in what is the latest of several rabbit murders to hit northern Maine.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:09:24 2020 No.15851143 File: 101 KB, 500x841, thearchons.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15851123 shoo, shoo, slave of the archons. kill yourself, corpse-eating maggot.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:11:42 2020 No.15851153

>>15851143
That is not a refutation of the fact that well educated vegans will rely on supplements and highly processed foods to be well nourished, while vegans who rely on plant only diets and/or fail to combine plant proteins will inevitably be malnourished.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:12:22 2020 No.15851155 >>15851153 >gay archontic language games Malnourishment! Kek.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:13:05 2020 No.15851159 >>15851106 Look at this guy trying to come up with reasons why veganism wouldn't help because the world isn't perfect and no human lives without waste. Every little bit helps, anon. Going vegan takes minimal effort for a huge moral payoff.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:14:25 2020 No.15851172

>>15851100
>I was evolutionarily programmed to scream when a blade's drawn across my throat
Yes and I can prove that by giving them analgetic, blocking their sensory input in which case they wouldnt give a fuck. Meanwhile your only argument is muh feefees

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:20:31 2020 No.15851205

>>15851159
>>15851155
Malnourishment from failing to combine plant proteins can result in kwashiorkor, while failure to supplement can result in anemia, b12, zinc and other deficiencies.
That is why well educated vegans will combine plant proteins along with relying on supplements and highly processed foods, because a plant only diet will inevitably lead to malnourishment.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:23:59 2020 No.15851225 >>15851172 >if I anesthetize people they won't care if I kill them lol kill yourself faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:29:23 2020 No.15851252 >>15851159 >my increased dependence on petro chemicals as a result of my lifestyle choice is nothing to frown on

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:30:24 2020 No.15851259 >>15845496 >cow with a few acres to roam he doesn't know

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:32:05 2020 No.15851272 >>15851225 I made that point because your argument was literally oh no they make sad animal noises when they die Anyway for every post you make I will eat two more burgers and throw away another one

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:33:08 2020 No.15851286 >>15845496 >Americans would rather be cows than live in their boomer dystopia lmfao. eat shit faggot, that's what you get.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:34:10 2020 No.15851289 File: 16 KB, 512x333, YANG.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15851272 >I'm gonna pump more zog chow into my body, that'll show you be my guest lmfao

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:34:38 2020 No.15851291

>>15845560
>Veganism harms more animals, and environments, and contributes to plastic waste.
do you have any source on this?
I can not phantom how this is possible

Also, we could not produce enough meat for everyone with the amounts we eat, if we raise the animals properly.
This and the higher price make it basically a privilege for the wealthy

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:34:49 2020 No.15851294

>>15851272
>two more burgers and throw away another one
>throw away another one
Anon, please, this is a starving artist board. Give it to a homeless person, it's basically the same thing.
t. not the anon you're replying to, just someone who appreciates a good burger

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:36:38 2020 No.15851305 >>15845596 pigs are highly intelligent animals, which can learn to solve problems etc. So we at least should not those?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:36:39 2020 No.15851306 I think there are genuine schizophrenics participating in this thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:38:11 2020 No.15851317 >>15845623 dark chocolate is vegan, if you get proper one not the shitty cheap milkpowdered ones.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:38:20 2020 No.15851319 >>15848065 Please enough with this meme PLEAAAASE get out of this board FUCKING RETARD.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:42:06 2020 No.15851343 File: 94 KB, 937x935, 1575383600450.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15851272

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:43:46 2020 No.15851361 >>15846947 >I said that animals will never be able to think with abstract concepts, which they can't. >False. For example, bees can think and conceptualize numbers

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:45:43 2020 No.15851371

>>15846041
>actively harming nature
always found this to be an overely anthrocentric take. its like there is some essential difference between humanity and nature. everything humanity does is manifestly a part if nature. we dont “destroy” nature, we are a part of it and everything we do is natural.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:49:43 2020 No.15851396 >>15851371 >hurr we occupy the same reality so the destruction of nature isn't actually the destruction of nature archontic faggot language games

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:50:31 2020 No.15851406 >>15849471 Dude, stop. Drop this intellectual stance you've been mechanically constructed. Just realize the sound of a lobster when it is put in boiling water.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:52:22 2020 No.15851427

>>15851291
Veganism results in a lot of air miles and monocultures and cash cropping. Organic farming is also guilty of this, depending on the country of origin. It would also, if taken to its logical conclusion, destroy a lot more animals than just converting habitats to vast monocultures and harvesting does, as it would kill off all animal farming, which is a lot of animals.
>with the amounts we eat
This and the country of origin and the method of farming are all more important for both saving animals and for maintaining the nutrient density of plant foods. Raising animals properly improves the quality of plant foods, and doing this locally solves not just the carbon problems of transporting food but also a lot of land overuse.
Plastic is often used to replace leather, which of course has a longer and broader range of environmental effects, and other vegan clothing also can contribute to land loss (cotton is especially prone to this).
Currently we have a bad set up for the environment regardless of if you eat meat or are vegan. The avocado craze alone is causing immense land damage. US and Chinese animal rearing is throwing immense amounts of hormonal damage to wildlife, while plastic production is poisoning our oceans. Neither set up is good for the planet, but veganism is especially concentrated in the wealthy west which is distanced from the problems of organic farming in Peru or Egypt.
Ideally, we should pay to properly rear animals here and stop turning third world countries into future dustbowls for organic food and clothes, and stop stacking animals on top of each other, and stop growing and subsidising both monocultures and overproduction. We produce far more food than we need. While veganism is well intentioned, so was the rush to buy quinoa the west went through to get healthy, and here we are we an even fatter west and people in South America unable to buy staple foods because kale drinking North Americans have priced them out of the market for quinoa.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:52:27 2020 No.15851429

>>15851343
i think moral veganism is the ultimate midwit take. im grossed out about those images on tv, but im not an oga boga thing look bad mean i dont like thing connected to it. pure pathos. i dont feel any moral qualm eating meat because my morality isnt based on if something looks gross and i understand empathetical distance. i think vegans like to project their personal schizoid empathy on others, like they cant possibly believe someone doesnt have an empathetic reaction to some abstract cow getting clubbed 200 miles away.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:54:42 2020 No.15851452 >>15851396 no it isnt, you are the one playing faggot language games. point me towards nature, what the fuck is it besides the abstraction of various forms of biology in some gestalt idea. and how is it distinct from humanity and its actions?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:58:00 2020 No.15851480

>>15851427
Country of origin is not very important, almost all of the energy and resources going into making any food are used in production with only a small fraction being transport. As for monocultures and plant agriculture, vegan diets use up less crops than non vegan diets since most of the worlds livestock is fed on these crops and feeding the crops to the animals instead of eating the crops directly means using far far more of the crops for the same calories. No doubt veganism is imperfect but it is easily the best of a bad bunch right now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:01:05 2020 No.15851510 >>15851429 sounds like you're projecting your lack of empathy onto others. two can play at that game, you insectoid faggot >>15851452 >you're the one playing language games >nature is an abstraction of various forms of biology lol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:01:21 2020 No.15851513 >>15851406 Lobsters don't make a sound when you drop them in boiling water.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:03:41 2020 No.15851541 >>15851429 This. I fucking hate these squeamish little fucking retards. They whine about cows getting a fucking quick bullet to the head, don't hear a peep from them when mexicans chop a dude's legs off and beat him to death with them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:04:45 2020 No.15851550 >>15851541 We're not all one person, and personally I don't care what mexigroids do to each other. fuck off sarah machlachlan

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:09:47 2020 No.15851603 >>15851550 >wah wah they put the chicks in the grinder >dude gets his face peeled off and forcefed his own cock >oh I don't care about any of that stuff

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:10:49 2020 No.15851615 >>15851603 >muh mythical starving children in Africa no one cares about your faggot sacred cows anymore, boomer. violence is violence.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:13:47 2020 No.15851641

>>15851480
>almost all of the energy and resources going into making any food are used in production with only a small fraction being transport.
You could cut out the carbon footprint of transport almost entirely, and the intensive levels of cultivation of regional crops to meet world demand (such as those that result in avocados being even more carbon dense than bananas, which are already over intensively farmed) by managing local land well, and not forcing poorer countries to take the burden of intensive farming while subsiding monocultures both at home and abroad.
>>15851480
>vegan diets use up less crops than non vegan diets since most of the worlds livestock is fed on these crops
And if those animals were pastured instead and allowed over land allowed to fallow, not only would they produce less carbon from consuming grain and better meat, but they would also reduce our need for fertilisers to grow other crops and improve the nutrient profile of crops. Organic butternut squash from Kenya is far less nutrient dense than one grown under medieval methods of agriculture which include crop and livestock rotations. Those methods not only improve the animal's life, they improve the general state of agriculture. Intensive monocultures, whether in the form of organic farming, or stacking battery hens with their legs cut off, harm far more than leaving the quinoa to the natives and having to keep our harms local. Veganism is not the best of a bad bunch, it's one of the more egregious actors in western crazes which are devastating developing countries' land. It is certainly well intentioned, but it is not causing less intensive farming or any kind of return to sustainable land use.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:14:45 2020 No.15851650 >Yuh know, not breeding and killing more animals will actually kill more animals. God you people are retarded. The amount of mental gymnastics you all go through. Just go vegan it's easy meat isn't even that great.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:18:16 2020 No.15851675 >>15851615 I don't give a fuck about starving children in Africa or cows you dipshit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:19:54 2020 No.15851690 >>15851675 I don't give a fuck about muh cartel members abloobloo either, faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:20:29 2020 No.15851697 >>15851641 >it's one of the more egregious actors in western crazes Most vegans don't even live in the west. Stop talking out of your ass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:21:13 2020 No.15851702 >>15851690 Then you shouldn't give a fuck about some fucking chicken getting his head chopped off you fucking drooling retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:21:49 2020 No.15851706 >>15851702 I do anyways, what are you gonna do about it, cunt? The fuck do I care what happens to Paco?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:24:13 2020 No.15851734

>>15851510
>>you're the one playing language games
>>nature is an abstraction of various forms of biology
were was I wrong. tell me what nature is then faggot and why me squishing a bug is not that, unless its something im suppose to implicitly believe in like god. in that case, you should be arguing the tenits of faith in an idealist lense which i am not against, i am open to discourse if you are willing.

>sounds like you're projecting your lack of empathy onto others. two can play at that game, you insectoid faggot

im saying that i dont think i feel any real empathetical attachment to the food i eat. i am willing to entertain the thought that i am psyoping myself. but at this point the burden of proof is on you to prove that, not me. i never said you dont feel empathy so i am not projecting on you or anyone. you have already admited to having empathy and i stated i do not, however the comic implies that i do. from this i think i am fair in extrapolating that this type of person is projecting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:25:23 2020 No.15851747 >>15851706 You shouldn't and you shouldn't give a fuck about some fucking animal either. Animals are just as fucking gay as mexicans.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:27:00 2020 No.15851764 >>15851734 >tenits lol >>15851747 >animals are cartel demons nah, kill yourself

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:30:44 2020 No.15851782 >>15851697 Veganism is certainly most popular in the West and developed world. You have rates of 5% or more of population in developed Westernised countries.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:31:04 2020 No.15851784 >>15851764 Go fuck a melon shitbrain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:32:55 2020 No.15851795 >>15851784 >noooo not my cartelinoooo kek

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:33:44 2020 No.15851804 >>15851764 >u spelt something wrong therefore your argument is invalid i swear, i have meet intelligent vegans before.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:35:45 2020 No.15851822 >>15851795 I've stated multiple times I don't give a shit about cartels you fucking apebrained knuckle dragging shitfuck fagass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:36:46 2020 No.15851830 >>15851822 give a fuck about all suffering life, if your empathy is selective you're just a faggot larper

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:40:44 2020 No.15851866 >>15851830 Your empathy is selective if you don't give a shit about some spic getting his cock bit off by a bulldog but proceed to whine and whinge about some fucking chicken getting turned into lean ground.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:41:45 2020 No.15851880 >>15851866 I'm about to blow your mind, you fucking retard: I give a fuck about both. What now?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:47:01 2020 No.15851917 File: 11 KB, 242x306, Eb1W5yfXQAsDqi_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15851690 >I don't give a fuck about muh cartel members >>15851880 >I give a fuck about both

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 19:08:33 2020 No.15852523 >>15851880 Can you quantify your empathy? is the spic more worthwill than the gook, and the gook the chicken?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 19:50:30 2020 No.15852804 >>15851917 Hehe. Bump.

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/lit/ - Literature