was adorno right?

[Anonymous No.15700807]

[Anonymous No.15700821]

Can someone tell me what is good about jazz?

[Anonymous No.15700826]

>>15700807
Adorno's hot takes on protest pop music were pretty good.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » mxvabIoSIE No.15700837]

yes. the answer is always yes. when you ask "was adorno right?" the answer will always be yes.

[Anonymous No.15700840]

Jazz sucks, obviously. It's not as complex as classical, and while neither was Wagner's music, at least his music had the theater to accompany it. Jazz is just dumbed down music for a dumbed down audience.

[Anonymous No.15700841]

>>15700821
Idk its fun to play and enjoyable to listen to.

[Anonymous No.15700848]

>>15700807
It's not a question of "right" or "wrong."
The question you ought to be asking is: Was Adorno based or cringe?

[Anonymous No.15700852]

yes. imagine coming from the rich European musi cal traditions to being subjected to negro music by American psyops. I cant' blame him for shuddering.

[Anonymous No.15700853]

>>15700837
Was adorno right handed?

[Anonymous No.15700862]

>>15700848
>academic turns completely against the progressive mainstream and shits all over it
Based, I should think.

[Anonymous No.15700886]

>>15700848
Adorno was mostly subversive and shitty.

[Anonymous No.15700889]

Adorno was right. But Adorno was Right.

[Anonymous No.15700894]

>when any philosopher writes about music

[Anonymous No.15700897]

>>15700821
It sounds good (to me) so I listen to it.

[Anonymous No.15700909]

>>15700894
>when any theologian writes about music

[Anonymous No.15700915]

>>15700840
>Not as complex as classical
Classical is definitely more technically demanding, while jazz is more mentally demanding. Soloing over complex chord changes, while being in time, and making your solo sounds good is pretty tough. Also comping other musicians is difficult as well. Not to take away from classical, though. I love classical and it’s brilliant.

Watch this video, I think you will find that jazz and classical are good, but for different reasons.
https://youtu.be/oZ16m7MyXJ8

[Anonymous No.15700930]

>>15700840
>you will never see a 19th century opera with a star eunuch castrato as the lead
why even live?

[Anonymous No.15700937]

>>15700909
based St. Augustine

[Anonymous No.15701012]

>>15700841
>>15700897
>>15700915
Does it go deeper than this, though?

[Anonymous No.15701023]

>>15700930
>ywn go to an opera house during the classical period and throw various items at the singers you don't like, playing poker with your friends, and hoping the lead soprano will sleep with you after the performance

[Anonymous No.15701118]

>>15700807
Jazz is the art of the mundane. It does not soar to the heavens, but cleaves to the earth. It is for you, the common man, and celebrates you, the poor sod who has lost his love, who drinks away his woes in an alley. It knows you. It loves you. Hence its association with noir and the downtrodden. It knows you and loves you.

[Anonymous No.15701259]

>>15700821
Only second to classic in harmony and composition, and it's not even half as old. Prog's the third, but no progressive composer has even come to scratch what jazzists and classicians did. Personally, I feel the sound of Jazz to be more alive, and the way saxs and trumpets behave is levels ahead of almost every classician. Also lo-fi precursor

[Anonymous No.15701270]

>>15701259
What I mean is, does it go beyond the technical?

[Anonymous No.15701286]

He was a Marxist, so he was Left. Retard.

[Anonymous No.15701337]

>>15701270
yes, its called SOUL

[Anonymous No.15701378]

>>15701270
Well, every genre has been constrained by the technical, but Jazz players (mostly metals and wood-metals) do little tricks that tells us who's playing. Shaping the notes, adding color, etc. It might look like part of the technique, but it's really all about the aura in a more Benjaminesque way. So yes, it's full of soul and brilliance, and even more at the Jams

[Anonymous No.15701429]

>>15701270
no. all the jazz musicians i know are bugmen.

[Anonymous No.15701437]

>>15700807
the sounds of saxophones and the like alone are grating to the ear.

[Anonymous No.15701454]

>>15701286
He means if he was right-handed

[Anonymous No.15701516]

>>15701118
music for those who aspire to nothing and will achieve nothing.

[Anonymous No.15701521]

>>15701118
>It does not soar to the heavens
Please listen to more jazz
https://youtu.be/ll3CMgiUPuU

[Anonymous No.15701531]

>>15701521
I fail to see how he was wrong.

[Anonymous No.15701543]

>>15701521
drums were a mistake

[Anonymous No.15701549]

>>15701521
not heavenly. This is heavenly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAxz16D4BlE

[Anonymous No.15701565]

>>15701012
yes, but only when it's experimental and in some ways influenced by contemporary academic music

[Anonymous No.15701573]

>>15700807
I love his autistic hate towards jazz. I lean towards hating jazz only because of adorno

[Anonymous No.15701583]

N

[Anonymous No.15701594]

>>15701573
it's not really that good, the best jazz is the jazz that sounds heavily influenced by Europeanism. This >>15701521 sounds trash tier, but some of coletrane's other stuff sounds really good. the quality can probably be based on whether or not Europeans worked with him to make the song or not.

[Anonymous No.15701615]

>>15701378
>tfw to brainlet to truly appreciate music

[Anonymous No.15702524]

>>15700807
I like Adorno but have never liked this quote-
Jazz is debased coinage- what's never been can't be said to disappear
Dumb
Adorno didn't like the fact that jazz was content or down with the way things were, which is never so bad a thing

[Anonymous No.15702715]

>>15700807
Like all spiteful mutants, he was crippled musically as well as emotionally. That is why he was driven to destroy...

[Anonymous No.15703954]

>>15700821
Communal improvisation.

[Anonymous No.15703969]

>>15700840
>It's not as complex as classical, and while neither was Wagner's music,

[Anonymous No.15704169]

>>15701521
Overrated garbage for pseudointellectuals. The start of the retarded importation of Indian mystics into the genre, which is the only reason hipsters like it.

[Anonymous No.15704176]

>>15700915
I hate these pseudomusician virtuosos on youtube who blather on and on but will never make a good song in their lives. All they can do is poorly imitate the styles of others.

[Anonymous No.15704185]

>>15700807
Why do people think of jazz as one of the blackest genres right after hip-hop when it didn't really gain a respectable level of complexity and musical rigour until 1920s europoors in France (and a bit later, burgers) adapted it and molded it according to their own tastes?

[Anonymous No.15704188]

>>15701259
>composition
oh yes, I love the "composition" of the five minute solos on every fucking song. Composing that must have really jot their noggin working. Imagine how much time they needed to compose those?

[Anonymous No.15704190]

>>15701594
>it's not really that good, the best jazz is the jazz that sounds heavily influenced by Europeanism.
This, assuming you are talking about third stream. The third stream jazz composers are the only competent jazz musicians since they don't just solo for half the track. Mingus saved jazz from being a worthless genre.

[Anonymous No.15704199]

>>15700821
Jazz fusion

[Anonymous No.15704209]

>>15704199
The problem with jazz fusion is that it's too similar to prog. rock, to the point where I just want to listen to prog. rock.

[Anonymous No.15704239]

>>15700807
>Jazz is the false liquidation of art
What? How can a "liquidation" be false? Isn't the whole point that he's trying to show jazz as the liquidation of art as true?
>instead of utopia becoming real it disappears from the picture
If by "utopia" he means that jazz isn't striving to overthrow civilization and replace it with silly Marxism, then maybe it's good that such utopia disappears from the picture. But even that is false, since the whole point of the sudden ascendacy of Jazz in the early 20th century is that it was a liberating and loose musical form, which seems like a pretty clear step towards "utopia".

[Anonymous No.15704258]

>>15700807
Adorno is never right. You can literally achieve enlightenment by believing in the exact opposite to whatever adorno says.

[Anonymous No.15704279]

>>15704258
>You can literally achieve enlightenment by believing in the exact opposite to whatever adorno says

[Anonymous No.15704289]

>>15700821
It is the attainment of the ideal Dionysian musical archetype. It is vigorous, aggressive, full of life. The musicians themselves are captured in ecstasy, and at its best it doesn't showcase complexity-for-complexity but because the musician is completely at ease in his craft, mixing styllistic elements for his needs without inhibition. Most importantly, jazz does all this by GOING FORWARD. Techno and punk can create similar environments of tribal drums and adolescent war cries, but it does so by grabbing back to primitive elements. Jazz is the true culmination of the modernist spirit, while pretenders like IDM regress to fetishism of technique and technology.

>Example
Pharaoh Sanders - Olé

[Anonymous No.15704295]

>>15700840
You faggot. People use the same argument when comparing Tupac and Biggie (earlier) to later hip hop artists.

[Anonymous No.15704297]

>>15704258
>Jazz is the false saviour of art - instead of Marxist hell becoming reality it disappears from the picture
Not horrible

[Anonymous No.15704302]

all popular music leads you to hell

[Anonymous No.15704315]

>>15700853
Sure, why not

[Anonymous No.15704319]

>>15704289

[Anonymous No.15704328]

>>15704289
>Jazz can GO FORWARD
Quite funny, considering jazz killed itself when it went free and now is stumbling like a zombie having become an eight-times-recycled version of it's prime. What's most pathetic is when it has to go fusion when rock has ACTUALLY surpassed IT. I don't see what's primitive about an electric guitar. You champion it's ability to go forward, but then slander electronic music? What? Do you even reread what you write? Do you even think before you write? But you're just a faggot throwing out contradictory reasons to justify you liking fucking jazz of all things.

[Anonymous No.15704408]

>>15704328
Sure, jazz is dead atm. It ate itself up after its peak, being just a shadow of its former glory. Fusion is a travesty. The point is that nothing superseded it afterward. Rock has actually never superseded the unpassable tranny hooker beneath the overpass, because at least he actually shaves before putting a wig on. Popular music (in its broad definition) dumbs everything down to its basic primitive structures. Meanwhile the works that are regularly jerked off by prog and IDM lovers amount to playing jazzy stuff on different instruments (electric guitars and dissonant synthesizers respectively). If you want me to give them a compliment Id say they carry on the spirit of jazz. Nothing that is fundamentally new has happened since jazz, other than maybe noise and 180+bpm music. Moreover, jazz didnt innovate for innovations sake (like Arka fags rimming a literal tranny because muh subversive experimental) but because there was need for expression of raw spirit and power.

[Anonymous No.15704503]

>>15703969
If you legitimately think Wagner is complex idk what to tell you man. And this is from someone who has listened to Parsifal at least once a month for the last 2 years.

[IGNORANT™ No.15704534]

>>15700807
Obviously, the daft cunt fucked this one hard - embarrassingly so.

a better question might be why did Adorno cuk himself so hard on jazz?

what jazz did he know about? in what context?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/hitlers-very-own-hot-jazz-band-98745129/

What else do we know about Adorno and pleasure?
What else do we know about Adorno and music?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvv8fzZISfU

Jazz is the epitome of human artistry - physically, technically, spiritually, creatively - hands down. i guess i should read this whole damn piece one day.

[Anonymous No.15705290]

>>15701516
in other words, based.

[Anonymous No.15705417]

>>15704188

[Anonymous No.15705420]

>>15704319
Those guys are cooming so hard.

[IGNORNUT No.15705427]

>>15704534
and here i thought we might have some decent conversation about this
lol 4 chan never mind

[Anonymous No.15705432]

>>15700840
I'll post a clip of Bloom lauding jazz, and you'll go
>wtf i like jazz now

[IGNORNUT No.15705436]

you cunts dont know shit

[Anonymous No.15705437]

>>15704169
Hipsters like it because they suffer from white guilt.

[Anonymous No.15705446]

I don't much about art, but I know what I like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-t4DAmTxpU
Off-topic, I know, but I thought I'd share.This group is great besides the shit pianist.You know he's only still around because he and the frontman are brothers.

[Anonymous No.15705495]

>>15701543
you are a simp if you think this

[IGNORANT No.15705499]

>>15705446
gay faggot

[Anonymous No.15705511]

>>15704408
you sound like a loser

'spirit of jazz' my ass, this just shows how jealous you are that other musical forms fit much better the dionysian nonsense you spouted. ironically, braindead rave music is best fitting for normalfags to rally behind.

[IGNORANT No.15705518]

>>15705427
this place is a a shithole -thre is no dialogue here

[IGNORANT No.15705539]

I DONT KNOW MUCH A BOUT ART

[Anonymous No.15705546]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTaQ-pqzPU4

Listen to this and tell me if Jazz sucks.

[Anonymous No.15705552]

>>15705546
jazz sucks

[IGNORANT No.15705554]

>>15705546
jazz is great
why dont you tell us why some jazz isnt great?

[Anonymous No.15705565]

>>15704289
holy cringe.

[Anonymous No.15705576]

>>15700821
https://youtu.be/RTJf9WS7fi8
https://youtu.be/TE7949ypVCw

[Anonymous No.15705590]

>>15705552
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq0m0hbCjFQ

>>15705554
but it is great

[Anonymous No.15705600]

>>15701521
Based. One of the albums to which I listened on my first acid trips. It makes me feel not only the awe of the divine but also the fear and trembling -- the light shines too bright

[Anonymous No.15705609]

Whats with the jazz hating? Just because it was considered black music? If jazz is a bad genre It is the best of the worst

[Anonymous No.15705873]

>>15705609
wrong but also correct and cope.

[Anonymous No.15705969]

I could never get into jazz. Some of the tracks I like, sometimes even whole albums (Hot Rats), but overall I feel no rhythm from the songs and spot no melody. It's really boring to listen to and it feels like everyone is playing the instrument for himself, not trying to create some harmony out of which a coherent song emerges, which is why I almost always zone out when listening to jazz songs.

[Anonymous No.15706001]

>>15705609
being into jazz in current year is peak pseudery for nu-males, its objectively incoherent wanking they pretentiously defend by saying "its good because [music theory gibberish], you just don't understand it pleb." these same people will shit on genres like rock for being too loud and harsh or "low" even though jazz was actually perverse and its musicians drooling niggers, with structures and rhythm the equivalent of a raging toddler with diarrhea.

[Anonymous No.15706057]

>>15704190
>Mingus saved jazz

all he did was ape the shit out of the Duke, even more so than Monk. jazz went out of fashion because it quickly increased in complexity and experimentation which is the opposite of what the average cunt wants to hear. a similar thing happened with "classical" or i guess "composed" music (schoenberg, bertok then stockhausen and xenakis)

personally i don't mind that it went out of fashion, there are still plenty of people that are drawn to it. not really dead just smelly etc etc im a huge faggot

[Anonymous No.15706060]

>>15705609
Yes
If black people do something it is bad and gross welcome to 4chan

[Anonymous No.15706117]

>>15706060
>Yes
>If black people do something it is bad and gross welcome to 4chan

[Anonymous No.15706136]

Jass is American and therefore, bad.

[Anonymous No.15706148]

>>15705539

[Anonymous No.15706155]

>>15706057
Jazz has been blowing up London for a while now, my dude.

[Anonymous No.15706161]

>>15705969
It's literally the Battle Royale of music.

[Anonymous No.15706167]

>>15706001
https://youtu.be/WB6Ix1sw0iI

[Anonymous No.15706215]

I hate FLUTEY JAZZ

[Anonymous No.15706217]

>>15706161
That sounds really reddit-y, anon

[Anonymous No.15706227]

>>15706001
>these same people will shit on genres like rock for being too loud and harsh or "low"
They are.

t. not a jazzfag.

[Anonymous No.15706341]

>>15706227
the contradiction is these people who love to talk more about jazz than listen to it anyway, often like the extremely chaotic type jazz that sounds harder to listen to than the shittiest death metal. its just high level consumerism where they get an identity and social cred out of it.

[Anonymous No.15706396]

>>15701521
Jesus christ jazz fags have no taste

[Anonymous No.15706430]

>>15705565
>>15705511
dilate and/or kys

[Anonymous No.15706440]

>>15700840
Jazz is obviously more complex than classical

[Anonymous No.15706454]

>>15706341
death metal > outdated classical music

[Anonymous No.15706471]

>>15706454
i prefer black metal.

[Anonymous No.15706502]

The dude was talking about popular Jazz music at the time like Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller, on which he was totally right. Just about everyone knows if Adorno had ever gotten around to listening to Charlie Parker he would've specified this.

[Anonymous No.15706510]

>>15706471
I still can't get into the past Bathory style

[Anonymous No.15706618]

>>15706502
From what I understand he never did change his views on it, and I think he's right about it. Experimental jazz music served no other purpose than to make challenging musical idea easily consumable. It neutered the avant-garde.

[Anonymous No.15706678]

>>15706618
At which point in time did the avant-garde hold any popular vitality?

[Anonymous No.15706772]

>>15706471

[Anonymous No.15706877]

I like to listen to some Jazz while reading.

[Anonymous No.15706936]

Reminder the only based black genres are detroit techno and chicago house

[Anonymous No.15707039]

>>15706502
Swing is based; Adorno was a sad incel. Literally /pol/ arguments.

[Anonymous No.15707065]

>>15704289
>>15704408
Just a bunch of made up shit. Totally unfalsifiable. You could replace the word "jazz" with any other word and and subject and there'd be no way to say whether it was true or not.

[Anonymous No.15707111]

>>15707065
Go back to your wagecage and build some more databases to optimize the search for cuck porn, which are proven to release a statistically significant amount of endorphins in a certain sub group of men. Statistical indicators show that you have a 93.2% chance of being in this Suh group, which would logically conclude that you're maximizing your own happiness. Luckily there is a way to falsify this: cutting your skull open with a buzzsaw and jamming a big electrode in it. Maybe somebody will come by soon.

[Anonymous No.15707134]

>>15706510
Blood Fire Death is the most important black metal album ever

[Anonymous No.15707142]

>>15707111
Mutt's law vindicated again

[Anonymous No.15707165]

>>15704289
>ecstasy
Didn't take long.

[Anonymous No.15707205]

>>15700807

[Anonymous No.15707215]

>>15707134
No way, the debut is way better

[Anonymous No.15707319]

>>15700821
For one, Jazz basically laid the foundation for most of subsequent popular music (rock, funk, hiphop) with it's focus on individuality and expressiveness. Beyond that, it's just fun to listen to, there's a sense of "lightning in a bottle" to good jazz that's hard to find in other genres of music.

[Anonymous No.15707373]

>>15700807
Who gives a mother fuck what some dead commie kike thought about jazz? Jazz is based as fuck; it's a perfect fusion of the raw spiritual energy of negro tribal songs with the precision and complexity of European classical music. The genre is dead now but at least we got over half a century of good music recorded from it.

[Anonymous No.15707408]

>>15705432
Do it faggot

[Anonymous No.15707635]

>>15707319
>For one, Jazz basically laid the foundation for most of subsequent popular music (rock, funk, hiphop) with it's focus on individuality and expressiveness.
Is this supposed to be a point in its favor. Over time its proven itself to be inadequate for the purpose it had and has since been superseded by those other genres you've mentioned.

[Anonymous No.15707711]

>>15707373
>Liking nigger shit

[Anonymous No.15707727]

>>15700807
For himself and his people, yes.
But no, not for you filthy goyim.

Always.
Do.
The.
Opposite.
Of.
What.
Jews.
Tell.
You.
To.
Do.

[Anonymous No.15708027]

>>15701118
This doesn't say anything distinctly about jazz.

[Anonymous No.15708188]

>>15704503
I think you're just cribbing all of Adorno's opinions on music just to be provocative. Wagner's use of progressive tonality was completely novel. Adorno's advocation for Schoenberg but disparaging of Wagner, who along with Mahler was crucial in shaping the development of the twelve-tone technique, shows how little he actually understood about music theory or its its history.

[Anonymous No.15708239]

>>15704503
I think you're just cribbing all of Adorno's opinions on music to be provocative. Wagner's use of progressive tonality was completely novel. Adorno's advocation for Schoenberg but disparaging of Wagner, who along with Mahler was crucial in shaping the development of the twelve-tone technique, shows how little he actually understood about music theory or its its history.

[Anonymous No.15708286]

>>15707408
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI8BNADM6-E

[Anonymous No.15708575]

>>15707373
>Believes in the magical negro

[Anonymous No.15708661]

>>15707205

[Anonymous No.15708738]

Benjamin > Adorno

[Anonymous No.15708750]

>>15708239
Novel/revolutionary =/= complex and simple =/= bad

[Anonymous No.15709090]

Anything you can play with your voice is bad.

[Anonymous No.15709147]

>>15708738
This but unirocicaly

[Anonymous No.15709218]

Bro what happend to black musical variety. They just seem like one trick ponies now.

[Anonymous No.15709284]

>>15700807

[Anonymous No.15709323]

>>15700807
it's literally a caricature of music

[Anonymous No.15709419]

>>15700807
If your boy told you this over beers you'd tell him to shut the fuck up and take his head out of his ass, but because it's muh epic german marxist philosopher it's some deep insight deserving of intense discussion and contemplation.

[Anonymous No.15709426]

JAZZ IS SO FUCKING BASED

[Anonymous No.15709454]

>>15707111
kek'd!

[Anonymous No.15709463]

>>15709426
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkQydoiDY28

[Anonymous No.15709471]

>>15709419
Is my friend was able to do dodecaphonic compositions I would give him some attention...

... Scratch that. I just googled what dodecaphonic is and sounds retarded.

[Anonymous No.15709514]

>>15707065
>unfalsifiable
>in a discussion about subjective experiences of art
What the fuck am I reading?

[Anonymous No.15709524]

>>15700807
I'll have to remember that next time I listen to "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady".

[Anonymous No.15709619]

>>15707635
>has since been superseded by those other genres
Wrong

[Anonymous No.15709713]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7N2wssse14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VN8zH366M8
Watch and listen and witness the best humanity has to offer. If these two performances don't make you dance and lift your spirit up and transport you then I don't know what to tell you. You might just need some weed more than anything in your life. I know it sounds condescending but I sincerely feel bad for anyone who cannot appreciate this.

[Anonymous No.15709828]

>>15709713
I don't even have to click to know that this will be unbearable horror for me. weirdly, I like noise( like Merzbow) and experimental non-jazz

[Anonymous No.15709878]

>>15709828
Do you not have 4chan X? It's Hello Dolly and Cantaloupe Island, not exactly difficult music.

[Anonymous No.15709901]

>>15704258
This is the wisest thing one can say about the ultimate daft twat.

[Anonymous No.15710208]

>>15700807

Whose utopia would be worse than Adorno's? Buddhism, Eco-Fascism, turd wave "feminism"; nowhere nearly as miserable.

[Anonymous No.15710769]

>>15703969
He's right, you know.

[Anonymous No.15711231]

>>15709713
Fuck nigger noise.

[Anonymous No.15711711]

>>15708286
wtf i like jazz now