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15361926 No.15361926 [Reply] [Original]

>he was a warlord. A conqueror
>it doesn't recognize the separation of church and state
>it's incompatible with Judeo-Christian values

Is his critique of Islam valid? Is it antithetical to the west?

>> No.15361948

>>15361926
>It doesn't recognize the separation of church and state
Neither does Christianity.

>Judeo-Christian values
An invention of contemporary American conservatism

>> No.15361980

>>15361948
The Bible says render unto Caesar, Islam says resisting any taxation beyond what Islam prescribes is meritorious

>> No.15361991

>>15361926
No it's privileged stupid westerners acting like the world is collapsing because they have some immigration. They clearly didn't gaf about (arabic) human rights until they couldn't talk incessant shit on Islam. Nobody in the world thinks that, that's absolute nonsense

>> No.15362003

>>15361980
You need to come to America and tell that to all the people who want prayer in school and the Ten Commandments on government buildings. A common talking point among the religious right here is that the constitution does not contain the words "separation of church and state"

>> No.15362010

>>15361926
>he was a warlord. A conqueror
Yes, and that made him even more based

>> No.15362035

>>15361926
>he was a warlord. A conqueror
Why does that matter? Seriously the objective actions of a religious founder have no inherent meaning. If it did, all Westerners would sell all their things and dress in rags to follow Jesus as he commanded. The moral example they set is a product of culture and epistemology.

>it doesn't recognize the separation of church and state
It does in the modern world with the notable exception of perhaps Iran. Every other Muslim country is defacto secular.

>it's incompatible with Judeo-Christian values
This is meaningless. There is no such thing as "Judeo-Christian" values.

>> No.15362056

>>15361926
>he was a warlord, a conqueror
>he was bad because he was what we were for hundreds of years and fantasize about being again
hypocrisy

>> No.15362102

>>15361926
>Judeo-Christian values
>The west
Why are you saying faggot shit like this? Would white people be suddenly okay with mass muslim migration if only they went and marched in tranny pride parades? I absolutely hate this conservative "if only they were more neoliberal!" line. The muslim question sits at the intersection of anti-white politics and pro-zionist politics. Our leaders bomb them and then import them into our countries.

See >>15361991 except realize that Europeans have every right to tell the brown hordes to fuck right off. No white man with his head on straight should give two fucks what these people do in their own armpit of the world. Simple as.

>> No.15362215

>>15362102
Putin bombs them too

>> No.15362217

If I clean up my room will I get some Benzos later?

>> No.15362229

>>15362215
Yes. He Does. Your point?

>> No.15362244

>>15362229
He's not anti white or pro Zionist

>> No.15362253

>>15361926
Can't take a man in diapers seriously.

>> No.15362258

>>15361926
>it's incompatible with Judeo-Christian values

it's basically an interpreation/extension of Judeo-christian values i.e. semitic mythology

>> No.15362301

>>15361980
>Thinking the moral of "rend unto Caesar" was "pay your taxes"

Holy shit, you've literally bought into an MSM line that is over a millennium old, great job

>> No.15362337

>>15362244
That's a non-sequitur. My claim was not "people that bomb muslims are always anti-white zionists." My claim was that our leaders (I am American, but the same could be same for Europe) bomb muslims and then import muslims. The bombing is for zionism, the importation is to shit on whites.

You are correct that Russia is somewhat of a different case. This is why American leaders behave so rabidly with respect to Putin--he isn't 100% on board with anti-white global zionism (though he is more in zionist pockets than most think.) I don't pay him any more credit than he deserves.

>> No.15362517

>>15362337
>Being this fucking stupid
When these guys do it, it's a zionist conspiracy, but when other people do it, well, now that's just some noble realpolitik

You can't cure low IQ I guess, but you could try reading some fucking books

>> No.15362545

>>15362301
t. doesn't read the bible.

>> No.15362547

>>15362517
It should be noted that both Bin Laden and al-Suri shared his analysis and both were competent strategic thinkers and opposed Russia

>> No.15362690

>>15362517
>noble
>realpolitik
talk about low IQ lol

>> No.15362803

>>15361926
>>15361948
>>Judeo-Christian values
That's a jewish psyop

>> No.15362865

>>15361926
he should bow down to Allah, Inshallah he sees the light

>> No.15362875

>>15362102
this is true

>> No.15362895

>>15362244
he is anti-white in as much as he doesn't see russian identity being based around genetic factors.
Russia is barely 80% russian at this point, he allowed this to happen.

>> No.15362910

>>15362517
>US invades Iraq and Afghanistan to topple their governments and encircle Iran.
>Russia props up allied Syrian regime to prevent Libya episode 2
>But they're both bombing people so it's the same thing
You should stop discussing geopolitics until you learn that warfare can serve different motives. You fucking retard.

>> No.15362924

>>15362895
Russia is barely 80% russian because Russia is so large and it covers a large amount of ethnic groups, it's not because they immigrated there, they were already located there. Also, the birth rate in Russia is one of the higher in Europe.

>> No.15362956

>>15361926
Hey, remember when this guy couldn't name a single postmodernist that he considers to be the enemy of the West? And then proceeded to literally be physically incapacitated by his dependence on anti-depressants? Just me? Ok cool.

>> No.15362959

>>15362924
Not that Anon, but you're factually incorrect if you think Putin hasn't facilitated immigration to Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Russia
>Russia maintains one of the world's most liberal immigration policies; anyone who works in Russia for five years and develops fluency in the Russian language can become a citizen, provided he or she has not committed a crime. Almost anyone who is hired by a Russian firm can stay in the country and work indefinitely. This reflects a policy change on the part of the government of Vladimir Putin from the more restrictive policy enacted after the Dissolution of the Soviet Union, in response to declining birth rates. The large non-Slavic immigrant populations arriving in response to Putin's liberal policy have sometimes been met with xenophobia. To counter this, the Russian state has shut down various anti-immigrant group pursuant to Russian hate speech laws, such as the Movement Against Illegal Immigration.

>> No.15362982

>>15362003
>Christianity doesn't recognize separation of church and state
>the Bible disagrees
>BUT MY TEACHER MAKES ME SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

>> No.15363106

>>15362982
>1500 years of Church exercising authority over states
>Guys it just wasn't being true to the text didn't you hear when Jesus said rend unto Caesar like come on guys

>> No.15363148

>>15362910
>Russia props up Syrian regime to prevent Libya episode 2
How much state media do you have to watch to believe this

Also
>Toppling militant sunni hill-people to encircle Iran
Yeah you're a fucking idiot

>> No.15363224

>>15363148
Try making a coherent point, friend. I know you're capable of it.

>> No.15363306

>>15363224
I already did, you just lack basic reading comprehension.

I'll spell it out for your pea brain:
>Sunni hill people who support terror almost openly are about as hostile of a regime to Iran as you can get, so toppling them to "encircle Iran" is the stupidest thin I've ever fucking heard
>Russia cares about destabilization only insofar as it doesn't like its friends being destabilized, and could not give two shits about Syrians, but has a vested (and invested) interest in making sure the Assad regime, hostile to the west and friendly with Russia, stays in power
>You have to be fucking illiterate to not believe minor global powers like Russia aren't playing the same game as big dog America

The whole "it's the JeWs that are ReSpOnSiBle for EVERYTHING" line is a bunch of illiterate degenerates picking up a line from historic propaganda, being peddled by second tier nation authoritarians who need distractions from their failed economic policies and profiteering from state offices

If you are a westerner and you buy Russian propaganda, you are literally degenerate

>> No.15363378

>>15362517
Russia is ruled by the Jewish seven-bankers

>> No.15363393

>>15363306
Jewish Media Control
CNN Jeff Zucker Jew
FOX Robert Iger Jew
ABC Robert Iger Jew
Disney Robert Iger Jew
CBS Sumner Rothstein Jew
NBC Brian L. Roberts Jew
FaceBook Mark Zuckerburg Jew
InstaGram Mark Zuckerburg Jew
Google Sergei Brin Jew
Youtube Sergei Brin Jew

>> No.15363394

>>15362910
What Russia has done to Syria in order to keep their puppet in power is far worse than what happened to Libya

>> No.15363405

>>15363306
are the Jews responsible for anything in your opinion? By Jews I mean obviously Israel and the elite diaspora, which includes billionaires and people involved in government and academia and the press.

>> No.15363473

>>15361926
The middle-east is just at the state europe was about more than 200 years ago, religion should be totally seperate from goverment and be like a getogether for gandmas and grandpas to visit on the weekends.
I mean yes christianity is still praticed in europe but very lightly and if you say i do not belive in this nobody gives a fuck.

>> No.15363496

>>15363306
Congrats, you've graduated from "shit flinging monkey" to something a little better. Now a discussion can be had. Wasn't that hard, was it?


>Sunni hill people who support terror almost openly are about as hostile of a regime to Iran as you can get, so toppling them to "encircle Iran" is the stupidest thin I've ever fucking heard
These regimes (the Taliban and the Ba'ath party) were adamantly anti-Zionist, and they were competent regimes which could pose a threat to Israel if they could solve their differences with Iran. Now Iraq and Afghanistan are failed states, and we get to establish ourselves at Iran's border personally (instead of Sunni Hill People, as you say) to enforce sanctions and prepare for a conflict.
>Russia cares about destabilization only insofar as it doesn't like its friends being destabilized, and could not give two shits about Syrians, but has a vested (and invested) interest in making sure the Assad regime, hostile to the west and friendly with Russia, stays in power
Okay, this doesn't contradict anything I've claimed. Syria as a failed state would not be in Russia's interests, but in Israel's, as it was a competent regime.
>You have to be fucking illiterate to not believe minor global powers like Russia aren't playing the same game as big dog America
I never made this claim. Russia can pursue its own interests, but its interests are clearly not entirely aligned with zionism and global capitalism like the US's interests (that is, the US leadership and their doners) are.

>The whole "it's the JeWs that are ReSpOnSiBle for EVERYTHING" line
Again this wasn't my claim, just a strawman you put up to fling your feces at. The white leadership and braindead voters are certainly complicit. But if you don't believe our foreign policy is almost completely zionist-designed, and that our immigration policy is anti-white... I find that to be a difficult proposition to sell

>>15363394
Debatable, and maybe unknowable given all the propaganda we are fed from both sides. We know, for instance, that there are now slave markets in Libya, which weren't in existence during the Gaddafi regime. In both cases the United States covertly support radical islamic elements in order to destabilize regimes that had kept things relatively calm. Libya is now a failed state, and Syria would be, too, if the Assad regime fell. Of course, when these states fail, Israel's influence grows, and Europe gets to take all the refugees, which is what happened with Libya.

>> No.15363510

>>15361926
>Is his critique of Islam valid?
No. I say this as someone who believes that Mohammed probably sold his soul to the Devil.

>Is it antithetical to the west?
I mean, insofar as the West is Christendom, Christianity is true, and Islam is false, yes it's "antithetical". I'd also argue that Islam is clearly a Near Eastern religion in a way that Christianity, contra the historically uninformed claims of the "kike on a stick" crowd, never has been.

>> No.15363522

>>15361926
>>15361948
"Let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah revealed therein" - Quran Chapter 5

>> No.15363535

>>15362056
>he was bad because he was what we were for hundreds of years and fantasize about being again
The issue is not exactly that "Muhammad is bad because he was a conqueror" but that "Muhammad, a warlord, is the best person who ever lived." It's like claiming that King David is holier than Jesus, or Elijah for that matter.

>> No.15363540

>>15363496
>We know, for instance, that there are now slave markets in Libya
Yeah so?

America only supports the FSA, which are secularist cucks working on establishing a puppet regime for Turkey or Israel or whoever will back them

Assad's state IS failed. It's a trainwreck, he expelled millions and destroyed everything

>> No.15363561

>>15363535
Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him." 3:84

>>15361926
Quran 8:61
"And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in God."

Quran 4:90
"So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then God has not made for you a cause against them."

Quran 6:108
"And do not insult those they invoke other than God, lest they insult God in enmity without knowledge."

Quran 60:7

"Perhaps God will put, between you and those to whom you have been enemies among them, affection. And God is mighty. And God is Forgiving and Merciful."

Quran 60:8

"God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly."

Quran 5:82
"You will find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe, those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud."

Quran 29:46
"And do not argue with the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are to Him - Muslims (in submission)."


Quran 5:48
"To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had God willed, He would have made you one nation, but to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To God is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ."

Quran 9:6

"And if any one of the pagans seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of God. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know."

Quran 60:9
"God only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers."

Quran 22:40
"Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is God - For had it not been for God's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and worship-places, wherein the name of God is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Verily God helpeth one who helpeth Him. Lo! God is Strong, Almighty "

Quran 41:34
"And not alike are the good deed and the evil deed. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then lo! he, between whom and thee there was enmity as though he was a bosom friend"

>> No.15363579

>>15362517
You know, the aims for which a war is fought actually matter. Russia is "bombing Muslims" in order to keep a certain government stable, while the US is doing the exact opposite.

>> No.15363597

>>15363510
>insofar as the West is Christendom
This is a claim that nobody should support. If you believe the West is merely Christen, you'd have to discard Greece and Rome as essential parts of the West's heritage, and yet include all the Christian African and Latin American countries as "western." Obviously ludicrous.
The West is simply Europe and its descendants (whites in general). Just like the term "First World," "Western" is just a euphemism for white people because talking positively about white people will have you branded persona non grata in academia, media, and the workforce.

>> No.15363611

>>15363597
First world means NATO aligned, go fuck yourself.

>> No.15363615

>>15363597
By the way, the Romans and Celts came from Anatolia, so they were in contact with the Hebrews

>> No.15363623

>>15363579
Yeah just like Russia bombed them during the invasion of Afghanistan to keep a certain government stable

>> No.15363633

>>15363611
Historically, yes, but not in common parlance today, hence its status as a "euphemism." Since nobody uses "second world" since the collapse of the USSR, First World has come to mean white and Third World has come to mean non-white (so when someone says "Why do we have all this third world immigration?" we understand what they really mean.)

You should really try calming down. Flinging shit just makes you look like an angry child.

>> No.15363636

>>15363561
>"We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."

All well and good except that Mohammed wasn't a real prophet. And yes, a distinction does need to be made between the Son of God and someone like Abraham or Solomon who was a generally righteous man who didn't always make the right decisions.

>> No.15363643

>>15363636
God doesn't beget

>> No.15363654

>>15363623
Yes, that was a different war in a different time in a different place fought for different purposes. Does the fact that the US armed the anti-Soviet mujahideen mean that the US is pro-Islam? Get a grip.

>> No.15363662

>>15363654
It was fought to prop up a Russian puppet regime.

>> No.15363663

>>15363643
Apparently he does. I personally don't find it that difficult to believe considering that he also created the entire universe.

>> No.15363701

>>15363663
I'm sure you also wouldn't find it hard to believe that he is a Cheeto, however He isn't

>> No.15363707

>>15363597
I'm not exactly worried about talking about white people being good (they are) on an anonymous message board where I can freely utter the sacred Hexagrammaton (N I G G E R).

When I talk about Christendom I mean historically. But sure, we can talk about white people. White people are Christian, they have been for a very long time. Anyway, to answer your original question, yes, Islam is antithetical to "the West" because the West is white and Christian. It so happened (via Divine Providence?) that the adoption of Christianity did not destroy the white race. This is probably not the case with Islam, the most obvious reason for which is that the expansion of Islam in the West is driven not by proselytization but by immigration/invasion.

>> No.15363715

>>15363701
>God caused the entire universe
>But he can't cause one woman to get pregnant

seems sus.

>> No.15363736

>>15363715
Begetting here doesn't refer to the virgin birth or incarnation, but the Nicene Creed

>> No.15363751

>>15361926
His squint makes him look like a faggot.

>> No.15363776

>>15363736
So what about
>eternally begotten...not made
is it impossible for God to do?

>> No.15363778

>>15363715
"If Allah had intended to take a son, He could have chosen from what He creates whatever He willed" 39:4

>> No.15363795

>>15363776
Is the Cheeto impossible?

>> No.15363810

>>15363662
Assad's regime, whatever its faults, is not a Russian puppet in the same way that the government in Afghanistan was.

If Putin had instead decided to recite the Shahada, declare the Islamic Sultanate of Rus, and instead intervene on behalf of IS in Syria...he would still be "bombing Muslims" when Russian forces attacked Assad's troops.

More generally it's just absurd to talk about people fighting on different sides of the same war are aktually just the same because they're both engaged in the process of fighting a war. Like pretending to be confused about the American Civil War because "they're both killing Americans, maaan".

>> No.15363848

>>15363810
>Assad's regime, whatever its faults, is not a Russian puppet
Yeah it absolutely is.

All kuffar fighting are the same. It's not their business

>> No.15363859

>>15361926
> incompatible with judeo christian values

who cares? this is only an issue if you take "judeo christian values" (a total sham concept made up by fascists) to be a priori correct or moral, which is definitionally a position lacking any sort of rational justification

jp is dumb slut who is afraid of vegetables

>> No.15363873

>>15363859
Jewish values are antithetical to Christian values

>> No.15363885
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15363885

>>15363848
>It's not their business
NO! STATES CAN'T JUST MAKE ALLIANCES BASED ON SHARED INTERESTS! YOU HAVE TO LET THE GUY WITH THE STERNEST LOOKING BEARD TELL YOU WHAT TO DO! IT'S NOT FAIR, WE HAVE THE COOLEST YOUTUBE VIDEOS AND PICTURES OF GUYS WITH RIBBONS TIED AROUND THEIR HEADS!

>> No.15363888

>>15361948
>>Judeo-Christian values
>An invention of contemporary American conservatism
Except it isn’t. A cursory glance at history shows that European Christians and jews developed some level of synchronicity due to proximity.

>> No.15363895

>>15363885
Yeah like the alliance between Russia and the Afghan government. You displace millions with your bombs? What goes around comes around. Enjoy

>> No.15363900

>>15363888
hmm... so you are saying the concept is still artificial and based on political society rather than the underlying religious tenets, aka an invention? cool

>> No.15363902

>>15363707
>I'm not exactly worried about talking about white people being good (they are) on an anonymous message board
I was speaking about popular rhetoric in general, not you in particular. You will never see a politician say "white people are good," and get away with it, but plenty of politicians (even those who do so opportunistically) praise "Christian values" and don't get dragged for it. When speaking about White people, they also use euphamisms like "middle America" or "working/middle class" (depending on where they are), "the forgotten people," etc.

>White people are Christian, they have been for a very long time.
A long time, yes, but not for such a utterly dominating portion of our history that to question Christianity's place is unthinkable. If we take the Greek civilization (1000BC) as the start of the "West" (some would go back further), and we identify Constantine's conversion (312 AD) or the Baltic Crusades (1170 AD) as possible dates where we can consider whites "christianized", this proportion hovers around two-thirds to a third of our recorded history since Greece. When you consider that Whites have been in Europe for thousands of years prior to Greece, the proportion of our existence where we were "Christian" shrinks further (Not a point I care about, but interesting to consider). Whites were pagans for a very long time--I would not use this as a case against questioning the essentially of paganism to whites.

>the adoption of Christianity did not destroy the white race
Not in the short term (though I believe Christianity was at least tangentially related to the fall of Rome). However, I do believe it has been deleterious in the long run, because Christianity does place its primary importance on forgiveness and the afterlife (and ultimately, submission to God, very similarly to Islam albeit through the figure of Christ). In short, the whites who were Christian for most of history were not "good" Christians. They fought and sought riches and so forth, all of which are contrary to what is endorsed in the NT. Today's Christians, as much as traditionalists moan about them, are following their faith much more closely. They turn the other cheek, embrace deeply a concept of original sin, love their enemies, distrust earthly power, etc. I'm not saying I endorse that, but I'm saying how it is. I mostly buy Nietzche's criticisms.

Look at the conquistadors, the crusaders, and other figures we think of as "badass" Christians, I'd argue they were badass because they were white warriors, not because they were Christians. Europe's cathedrals are not beautiful because they are Christian places of worship, but because white people built them. White people build beautiful things and accomplish incredible feats, whether they live in democracies or totalitarian states, or whether they worship Zeus or Jesus or nobody. What is left, then, is to determine exactly what faith does complement our race the best. I'm not sure if Christianity is it.

>> No.15363942

>>15361926

I don't know, I only watched YouTube videos of him talking about Harry Potter.

>> No.15363943

>>15363900
>so you are saying the concept is still artificial and based on political society rather than the underlying religious tenets, aka an invention?
I said no such thing about the tenants either way, just that saying that it was an invention of contemporary American conservatism is mind boggling stupid with even a little bit of thought.

That was my main complaint, if you care about underlying tenets in terms of scriptural traditions, that’s a different subject. However, as a category I think it is legitimate as it is talking about a categorization within another categorization (abrahamism)

>> No.15363950

>>15363895
The USSR literally changed the government of Afghanistan several times and then invaded when that proved insufficient to maintain control. It's fine if you think that Assad is insufficiently Islamic, it's even fine if you think that everybody except the people on your BASED ISLAM discord are kuffar, but you should probably at least be aware of the difference between an actual puppet regime and a normal government with allies. The latter tend to inspire more loyalty, for one.

>What goes around comes around. Enjoy
What, various Middle Eastern states are going to continue to use "jihad" as a dumping ground for young men they want to get rid of while destabilizing their geopolitical rivals? Yes, I will continue to enjoy this.

>> No.15363971

>>15363902
That’s just as arbitrary a categorization as religion tho. The point is that all these groupings are general categories of an aesthetic zeitgeist which have a different overarching and often intersecting nuance to them. Your analysis seems surface level and rather materialist And reductive to me.

>> No.15363977

>>15363950
Assad doesn't shit without Russia's permission, and Russia is now occupying the country

Not sure what states have to do with it

>> No.15364039

>>15363902

The East Romans were Christians and they held out for another millennia after the fall of the Western half of the Roman Empire and against numerous and highly dangerous foes: Western Barbarian Christians and pagans, Zoroastrian Persia, the armies of Islam out of Arabia and then the Seljuk Turks who became Muslims, numerous hosts of Slavs from Eastern Europe, as well as many rebellions from within the Empire, etc. Oh, and the East Romans were a diverse group of people and they weren't all White Europeans.

>> No.15364048

>>15363971
The question is not whether a categorization is arbitrary or socially constructed, but how useful it is to help us understand the world. For example, I don't find "Christian" as a useful categorical equivalent for "Western" because then "Western" would then include large swaths of Africa, the Philippines, Central and Southern America, and other places nobody would actually consider "Western," while discounting such behemoths of accepted "Western" heritage such as Rome and Greece, which were not Christian (Rome, for a majority of its existence and a greater majority of its hegemony at least).

White, however, captures Greece, Rome, Europe, and European offshoots (America, Australia, etc.) while excluding those African and latin American Christian countries. Thus It's a more useful categorical equivalent for "Western." There are still fuzzy boundaries here and there, but it avoids the major flaws of the "West = Christian" claim. Another anon (don't think it was you) said "West = White + Christian" which is closer to the truth, but still tosses Greece, Rome, and the increasingly secularizing white population to the dustbin. I don't think that's a correct interpretation.

>> No.15364144

>>15364039
>The East Romans were Christians and they held out for another millennia after the fall of the Western half of the Roman Empire
I'm not sure exactly what claim you're responding to. A general response:
There's a reason Eastern Rome is not usually called Eastern Rome, though its an acceptable terminology. Byzantium's history is generally understood as a thousand year process of collapse with some brief optimistic spots around Justinian and such. I respect Byzantium very much, but Byzantium was not the Roman Republic and Empire that everybody knows and loves. It was essentially a rather special case of rump state.
>Oh, and the East Romans were a diverse group of people and they weren't all White Europeans.
Rome, even when it was a republic, was a massive empire, so of course we'd expect there to be distinct populations even in the rump state of Byzantium. In a sense Rome was somewhat cosmopolitan, and yet Rome was founded and ruled by, obviously, the Romans, not the arabs or the africans. Byzantium ruled several peoples, but was ruled itself primarily by ethnic Greeks and Romans. We could say that the British empire had millions of nonwhites under its rule, but the British Empire was ultimately an entity created and run by British people.

>> No.15364174

Can't we apply his logic to Israel?

>> No.15364250

>>15361926
Only the truth of a thing matters. If Islam is correct, then "Judeo-Christian" values (what a stupid term) must be incorrect. And, likewise, the separation of church and state must be a bad practice.
But that's Peterson's problem. He doesn't actually take religion seriously on its own terms. He dances around hard questions about the truth of Christianity, and instead lavishes praise on it for its role in the formation of the West. For Peterson, it's all metaphorical, and religion's only values are in its myth-making for the personal edification of believers, and in its practical support of more secular systems. He doesn't have any skin in the game, and that's why his defenses of Christianity and criticisms of other religions are so weak. And I say that as a Christian. I'd rather not have a guy like Peterson try his hand at apologetics, because I don't think he takes it seriously.

>> No.15364350
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15364350

>>15364174

>> No.15364426

>>15364250
His job is to rally the directionless youth back to being unconscious of jewish meddling

>> No.15364464

why do threads that talk about islam or religion in general deteriorate into such shit so quick?

>> No.15364495

>>15364250
Indeed. He can hardly make an argument against Islam that can't be used against Christianity or Semites.

>> No.15364765

>>15364250
>He dances around hard questions about the truth of Christianity, and instead lavishes praise on it for its role in the formation of the West.
Exactly.

>> No.15364821

>>15363778
>>15363795
>I can counterfactually speculate that God might be other than what he is
What is this supposed to demonstrate, that Mohammed didn't ascribe with the Nicene Creed? We already know this.

>> No.15364847

>>15363405
Israel is a flashpoint because it is an example of the west condoning human rights atrocities because the people doing them are friends (read: owe their statehood) to the west and western institutions.

In that way, Zionism is responsible for a lot of US Foreign policy, but it's about alignment of interests, not "le sneeky jews do the bad things to hurt whitey"

>> No.15364909

>>15364464
Lots of Islamists come here to spread their religion to the real influencers on 4chan and trick them down into their fallen path. If /lit/ falls then so shall all 4chan, if 4chan falls, so does the internet.

>> No.15364937

>>15364909
> Lots of Islamists come here to spread their religion
this thread is talking about peterson's criticism of islam, in the OP post, Mohammed is called a warlord, not exactly a good strategy if these were islamists, plus I notice this derailment even in catholic/christian threads in general

>> No.15364958

>>15362102
>Simple as.
I really hate this expression and see it being used more frequently across several boards.

>> No.15365013

>>15363902
It's an interesting question whether our rulers hate the white race more than they hate Christianity per se, but I think the short answer is that they hate them both.

>I would not use this as a case against questioning the essentially of paganism to whites.
It's not so much about the length of time that whites have been Christian vs pagan as about the fact that the situation we're in now is one in which "white religion" is Christianity whether it's objectively good or not. Attempts at pagan revival are not a "return to tradition" because factually there is no extant European pre-Christian religious tradition -- at least Julian had such a living tradition available! I'll admit my bias as a Christian myself -- "neopaganism" is at best just false and ridiculous -- but even considered as a political movement it's just not effective. Like I said, I'm biased, I'd be interested if you disagree on the latter point.

> the whites who were Christian for most of history were not "good" Christians. They fought and sought riches and so forth, all of which are contrary to what is endorsed in the NT. Today's Christians, as much as traditionalists moan about them, are following their faith much more closely. They turn the other cheek, embrace deeply a concept of original sin, love their enemies, distrust earthly power, etc.
I disagree with pretty much all of this. I don't think there's any question that the Christian faith was held more fervently by more people in the past. This is particularly the case in Europe itself, which has not exactly covered itself in accomplishment since its de facto abandonment of the faith. And in terms of pacifism or distrust of worldly things even the most ridiculous American evangelical doesn't hold a candle to the contemplative saints of the pre-modern world.

>I mostly buy Nietzche's criticisms.
Nietzsche's complaints are at least much more well-put (and true) than the "dead kike" critiques.

>What is left, then, is to determine exactly what faith does complement our race the best. I'm not sure if Christianity is it.
What's left to determine isn't whether Christianity "best complements our race" but whether it's correct. You're not going to Save Europe by proposing the mass adoption of beliefs that everyone knows to be false.

>> No.15365025

>>15361926
Middle easterners are antithetical to the west
Who cares what their books says. The way they act is all genetic

>> No.15365041

>>15364847
>Alignment of interests
How is any of it in americas interest?

>> No.15365073

>>15363888
The way that judeo-christian values is used in the contemporary discourse is very much a modern thing made by neo-cons to support Israel

>> No.15365427
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15365427

>he was a warlord.
>A conqueror

>it doesn't recognize the separation of church and state

>it's incompatible with (((Judeo)))-"""Christian""" values

>> No.15365465

>>15365041
If American politicians want to get elected and make connections, they better play ball with the powerful and influential Israeli lobby, which will in turn help these politicians achieve their interests (getting elected, passing reforms, etc.).

It's a win-win relationship.

>> No.15365473

Can't anyone else see how the 'judeo' was shoehorned into 'christian'?

Christians have more to do with catholics or agnostics than jewish values.

>> No.15365496

>>15364048
I think we are talking all squares are rectangles then. Since west is again a gestalt term. Otherwise we would say just white. But we don’t just mean that. White is a correlatory and elemental part of what is west. At this point we are looking at intersecting pie charts. If “whiteness”= west the. What about the info-aryans and the like? Groups that are classic LT outside the sphere of the west while for most intents are white. I do not usually consider those in india “western”. I guess that’s my problem. Christianity is a contributing element just like whiteness is, or Roman government, or Greek thought.

>> No.15365619
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15365619

>>15365473
What I'd like to see used is Islamo-Christian values, since both religions actually have a common core in Greco-Roman philosophy and following the actual teachings of Jesus (pbuh).

The "Judeo" is an obvious neocon psycho-op to exclude Islam from the Abrahamic religions so they can justify calling them 'savages' and destabilizing Islamic countries.

Once you start dissecting these terms, ones that people like >>15365496 use as something essential to their weltanschauung, it's obvious how transitory they are. Before "White" existed, Europe believed in Christendom against Islam. Then it was Catholics vs Protestants. The idea that Western Civilization is THE heir to Greek thought is ridiculous, since most of the Greek and Roman philosophers that are studied were originally translated into European languages FROM ARABIC. Physiologically speaking, Middle Easterners, Meds, North Africans, Europeans, are all different shades of the same.

People want so hard to have an evil enemy, but when you see how "white" countries treat Islamic nations its barbaric. If our leaders had honour and shame, they'd focus more on how we behave as warriors without seeking to dehumanize their enemy in order to justify it. Drone strikes, economic sanctions, the "war on terror", it's all a pathetic excuse to hide and cower while acting like indiscriminate murder of civilians is a necessary act of self defense.

Europeans have forgotten the honesty, freedom, and love of virtue that sparked the renaissance/enlightenment and made them great. Now we act like cowardly despots and live in grotesque excess while technocrats strip us of our freedom and dignity.

>> No.15365883

>>15361926
Damn, Islam sounds based.

>> No.15365923

>>15363859
>Judeo-Christian values made up by fascists
Please don't insult Mussolini in this way. Neocons are not American fascists, they're liberals when it comes to America and Zionists when it comes to Israel.

>> No.15365924

>>15365619
Europe massacred America, Africa and Indochina during the renaissance/enlightenment though.

>> No.15365955

>>15363942
Try the pinocchio ones

>> No.15366316

>>15365923
The neoconservative movement was made up by Jewish Trotskyites. Even Fox News was created by Lenin-worshipper Rupert Murdoch

>> No.15366434

any uoft fags here? this is at sid right? i'm pretty sure me and my gf sat here the first or second day we met

>> No.15367456
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15367456

Why do Muslim women turn out better than how his daughter turned out?

>> No.15367477

>>15361926
Only from a liberal conception of the political. Islam being antithetical to the West likely has a more solid root in the fact it is from the East than any specific idea or principle it supports.

>> No.15368171

>>15367456
Ironically Islamic modesty comes from the fact that men and women can choose to be separate from each other

>> No.15368182

>>15366434
yeah it's in front of ss. so is his famous encounter with the tranny squad. little known fact: the dead meme of "red," the crazy feminist bitch with red hair screaming SHUT THE FUCK UP, was just down the street.

god bless uoft, home of OISE's tranny cult.

>> No.15368428

>>15361926
Leave JP alone.

>> No.15368687

>>15361926
I miss this man like you wouldn't believe.

https://voca.ro/1gJ5igpPtF7

>> No.15368699

>>15361991
>some immigration
lol

>> No.15368718

>>15362959
Sounds based to me. Yet another reason to like Putin.

>> No.15368739

>>15361980
>The Bible says render unto Caesar
This doesn’t imply the separation of Church and State. The Council of Chalcedon decidedly conclusively that the real of human politics falls under the purview of God.

>> No.15368743

>>15361926
>>it's incompatible with Judeo-Christian values
Always laugh when I see this cope by christfags. Islam and Judaism are so similar that it's difficult to find important distinctions between them in terms of worldview, theology, and values. They have the same views on the Law, they have the same view on monotheism, they share pretty much all important parts of religion with each other. They even share rulings on food and cleanliness, so much so that kosher and halal are almost indistinguishable. It is the Christians who are the odd ones out in almost every way - they reject the Law, they believe in a trinitarian (polytheist) deity, they are distinct and apart in almost every important way.
>inb4 christfags shout THAT PROVES WE'RE RIGHT
No, that proves you have left the way of the prophets and thousands of years of tradition.

>> No.15368745

Lots of uninformed retards in this thread desu.

>> No.15368750

>>15367456
What exactly is so bad about his daughter? There’s a few pictures of her in a bikini floating around the web? Who fucking cares. Most of us live amongst women who literally fuck people over and whore themselves out for me money as if it were a norm.

>> No.15368751

>>15368743
You don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s always the people who know very little about either who want to critique them so harshly.

>> No.15368770

>>15368751
Your statement is air. You said nothing to dispute my point. The fact remains: "Judeo-Christian values" are an American construct, intended to force a bond that is more present between Muslims and Jews than Jews and Christians. If Judaism is to be seen as part of the Western tradition in terms of values, then Islam is basically the same thing.

>> No.15369000

>>15361980
One quote from Jesus isn't christianity any more than the centuries of interpretation by governments and state actors.

>> No.15369152

>>15362003
>want
I found the operative term.

>> No.15369263

>>15361926
>Is it antithetical to the west?
Considering that the modern conception of the west was designed around mutual opposition to the Islamic faith, it’s inherently antithetical to the west in a way which nothing else can be.