Post-woke radicalist lit&phil

[Anonymous No.15241166]

Continuing from last thread >>15232790, apart from

>The Pussy by Delicious Tacos
>Selfie, Suicide: or Cairey Turnbull's Blue Skiddoo by Logo Daedalus
>Based Deleuze by Justin Murphy

What other books would you put under this new umbrella term? Are you expecting Kantbot's new novel to be actually good? Discuss, call me a fag, whatever you'd like.

[Anonymous No.15241183]

>>15241166
>Selfie, Suicide: or Cairey Turnbull's Blue Skiddoo
this is a real book? I thought it was a joke

[Anonymous No.15241195]

>>15241166
please stop paying attention to twitter ecelebs and their dogshit plagiarised screeds

[Anonymous No.15241200]

>>15241195
have you read their books tho

[Anonymous No.15241203]

>>15241166
>Are you expecting Kantbot's new novel to be actually good?
what is it about

his longform writing is shitty as hell

[Anonymous No.15241206]

>>15241166
murphy is pseud and a hack who only has a reputation because of his far more interesting and intelligent guests. a wannabe e-celeb attempting to assuage his masturbatory self-pity through internet points. whatever "post-woke radicalism" is eventually decided to be, his name deserves no place in it.

[Anonymous No.15241235]

>>15241166
>ctrl+f deleuze
Justin thinks he can publish youtube quality books that have less investigation that undergrad essays and still be respected, lol

[Twitter INC ™ No.15241240]

People are reading Kantbot, BAP, Nick Land, Delicious Tacos, Logo Daedalus, Justin Murphy, TrueAnon, etc.

Sponsored by Twitter.

Remember, we reserve all rights to the data and any information contained therein.

[Anonymous No.15241242]

>>15241203
probably a modern retelling of young werther in the form of schizo-incel ramblings about western civilization or whatever, idk

[Anonymous No.15241249]

>>15241166
>People are reading Based Deleuze
Me. I did. Yes.

[Anonymous No.15241256]

>>15241166

[Anonymous No.15241274]

I liked parts of this.

[Anonymous No.15241276]

>>15241256
Xenogothic, I totally forgot, yes. That book would amount to the first real attempt at theory from the post-woke radical leftist. Truly a pioneer. I'd dare to say, based.

[Anonymous No.15241281]

>>15241274
fuck off with that shit

[Anonymous No.15241287]

>>15241281
What you gonna do?

[Anonymous No.15241303]

>>15241274
That's just cringy neo-reactionary bullshit. C'mon, we aren't including everything a pseudo e-celeb from Twitter wrote into this umbrella term.

[Anonymous No.15241314]

>>15241166
> Are you expecting Kantbot's new novel to be actually good?
With that name and considering the man looks like a walking 4chan meme, I'm certainly not.

Generally speaking you can expect any book written by an e-celeb (and especially 4chan's "celebs") to be shit, expect if their celebrity is merely a byproduct of having written a book recognized outside social media and for quite some time.

It is not merely a matter of talent since we would expect the dozens of thousands of users of /lit/ to harbor at least a handful of talented people. It is, before anything else, a matter of audience. Any writer worth his salt writes for an audience, several audiences, actually, the first and most important of them being himself, and in most cases a second one being a circle of chosen relatives. But the one that looms large in the background of the first two and ultimately directs the whole writing process is the third audience: the intended imaginary audience of people that the writer would ideally want to read his book. In others words, the audience of people you have in mind when writing the book, those you set out to entertain, to impress, to move, to enliven or to enlighten.

For most writers, even the not-so-good ones, that audience stays mostly imaginary throughout the writing process, and functions as both target and superego: will this sentence touch the imaginary target audience? Does this sentence makes the inner voice of the imaginary audience in your head cringe?

This is a very important thing, the inner voice of the imaginary audience, that criticizes whatever you write in real time, and that any good writer must learn to listen to, to an extent.

But for an e-celeb this imaginary audience is not imaginary at all, instead it is embodied in social media: ever-present, ever-changing, noisy, small-minded, communautaristic, short on attention and erudition, at once gullible and cynical. This is an audience fit for producing or reacting to drama queens, actors, stage snakes and on-the-fly impersonators. But an audience for writers it is not.

>Discuss, call me a fag, whatever you'd like.
You're a fag but that's what I like best about you.

[Anonymous No.15241323]

>>15241281
>>15241303
lmao chapocels want to be edgy and part of the ebin dark internet culture but start crying and pissing their pants about anything non-leftist. the complete lack of self-awareness.

[Anonymous No.15241338]

>>15241323
you already have your cool pseudo-intellectual very underground and racist boy club, why would you want to be part of this

[Anonymous No.15241341]

>>15241303
>That's just cringy neo-reactionary bullshit.
Oh, i thought it was the same category as whatever the thing this thread is about. Sorry

[Anonymous No.15241358]

>>15241341
Delicious Tacos and Logo Daedalus at least make clear it's ironic

[Anonymous No.15241362]

>>15241323
take your pills mike

[Anonymous No.15241370]

>>15241358
What if they write it ironic because in this culture nobody dares to do anything non-ironic because the internet finds a way to critique and destroy everything so everyone hides behind irony? (i am sorry if this is off-topic)

[Anonymous No.15241371]

>>15241274
Tell us about it anon. I normally ignore shit like the books posted ITT because I assume they're pathetic twitter celeb niggers begging for attention, but the very fact that this >>15241303 thin skinned queer is against it and trying to effeminately gatekeep it means it must be at least kinda interesting.

[Anonymous No.15241376]

>>15241314
Interesting opinion, what do you think of Xenogothic though? He's talented imho.

[Anonymous No.15241385]

https://www.academia.edu/38670411/One_Two_Many_On_Nick_Lands_Numbering_Practices

[Anonymous No.15241389]

>>15241276
summary?

[Anonymous No.15241415]

>>15241370
I mean no one really knows what those two really think, I'm just guessing from the vibe I get from them. I guess if they really were full-blown reactionaries they would write shit more akin to Mike Ma or BAP.

[Anonymous No.15241417]

>>15241338
>>15241362
you literal redditors are actually, seriously ignorant to the fact that what you're doing here is trying to co-opt the intensionally edgy e-culture built up by people like BAP for your own bernie sandlers tier politics five years after it was fresh? I don't even give a shit, but the blatant pathetic hypocrisy in chapos trying to co-opt edgy twitter, in 2020, while literally crying if someone says nigger is mind boggling.

[Anonymous No.15241419]

>>15241371
it's a fourth-rate bret easton ellis knockoff. the stuff you write when you're fourteen and just getting into books. the stuff you physically cringe at upon discovery when cleaning out your childhood room. edge for the sake of being edgy. the other internet nobody books have at least *some* qualities, but any publisher or serious reader worth their salt wouldn't read past the first line of this shit. trust the thin skinned queers on this one

[Anonymous No.15241432]

>>15241417
are bap or any of those guys actually edgy? I mean like on the level of any random post you can find on /pol/

[Anonymous No.15241443]

>>15241417
what the fuck are you on about. no one wants to "co-opt" your gay bodybuilder shit, and no one was talking about "chapos" until the schizos itt started sperging out

[Anonymous No.15241447]

>>15241417
the material conditions have changed.
doomer-leftism has more potential for redpilling the normies in 2020 than right-wing edgy twitter whenever the fuck that started

[Anonymous No.15241458]

>>15241385
very interesting, thanks for sharing

[Anonymous No.15241463]

>>15241447
what the fuck can doomer-leftist redpill anyone about? the million different genders? Feminism? Patriarchal oppression? Sorry but high school, colleges and universities are already doing that

[Anonymous No.15241474]

>>15241432
not at all really. kantbot and logo daedalus are fun to follow on tw*tter, and kantbots podcast is good imo. people hate them for being "ecelebs" but theyre very authentic autists.

[Anonymous No.15241476]

>>15241463
>the million different genders? Feminism? Patriarchal oppression?
wow, what an incredible display of how to absolutely miss the whole point.
I should've said *post-woke* doomer-leftism so you could've gotten it.

[Anonymous No.15241485]

>>15241323
>>15241417
Hilariously, these are true

Why can't leftists bring their angst against capitalism and power structures, and leave behind the whiny faggotry. Not asking you dorks to be right wing, just stop abiding by leftist-religious authority.

>>15241443
>>15241447
Nobody wants to co-opt BAP because he's literally a faggot and retarded, but the chapo-sphere wants a touch of that edgy right-wing/post-right internet energy, but they can't figure out how to attain it without ditching crypto-progressive morality. They don't wanna be cancelled and they don't wanna be naughty boys

[Anonymous No.15241491]

>>15241476
what does that entail?

[Anonymous No.15241503]

>>15241371
I haven't read all of it. I don't really know what to say about it. It has some passages with nice prose, it has some energy to it in parts. But its also a lot of cringe so. Its 150 pages so take a quick glance i guess https://b-ok.cc/book/5350088/37152a

[Anonymous No.15241507]

>>15241432
he goes pretty far in what he writes, so I'd call him legitimately edgy. But he's not very clever, funny or insightful with it. It's at best mildly amusing unless you're some kind of teenage /pol/ack sperg.
>>15241443
totally ignorant and stupid. 100% came to 4chan after 2016.
>>15241447
well no, because you people are pussies who are trying to take over, or heavily inspired by, something you actually want to ban from the internet. Case in point these pussies >>15241281
>>15241303
>>15241358
>>15241415

[Anonymous No.15241513]

>>15241476
What is the whole point? ( no really )

[Anonymous No.15241515]

>>15241485
For leftism to gain that "edgy/dangerous" internet energy they would have to throw off the moral shackles of their Bourgeois liberal overlords. These retards won't even criticize the system's precious little protected classes, they actually DEFEND having "protected classes" based on racial or sexual identity. How the fuck are you going to get edgy energy doing that? The chapo-tier shit is so obviously forced and fake, they're the same as their liberal university parents but they hate capitalism just a little more.

Leftism will go extinct at this rate

[Anonymous No.15241520]

>>15241376
Never read him. I wouldn't discount the possibility of one random weirdo making it in the 4chan crowd (though again I would expect him to become famous only after completing his book).
But we're talking small odds here, definitely less than one e-celeb in ten.
What does xenogothic write about?

[Anonymous No.15241527]

>>15241485
>the chapo-sphere wants a touch of that edgy right-wing/post-right internet energy, but they can't figure out how to attain it without ditching crypto-progressive morality.

you used to be able to see this on somethingawful when the non-FYAD FYAD types would replicate every single thing about FYAD EXCEPT its willingness to chill out and say nigger or whatever

then somehow FYAD became non-FYAD FYAD. ozma fat

[Anonymous No.15241528]

>>15241491
As I see it, it's about selling leftism as a cool and edgy project in these dire times. Post-woke as in leaving wokeness behind. The founder father of this new cultural wave would be Mark Fisher, of course. Wokeness is just the vampire castle.

I don't think >>15241485 is completely wrong, where I think he's wrong is in the necessity of ditching crypto-progressiveness. As he's obviously right wing, he thinks progressiveness is what's killing the left. But no, leftism is inherently progressive. Today's left problem is the vampire castle, wokeness, which is liberal, bourgeois and in favor of capital.

[Anonymous No.15241556]

>>15241520
He was Mark Fisher's student. He basically continued Mark's line of thought into the recent years' culture with his first book, this one: >>15241256

[Anonymous No.15241582]

>>15241528
>where I think he's wrong is in the necessity of ditching crypto-progressiveness. As he's obviously right wing, he thinks progressiveness is what's killing the left. But no, leftism is inherently progressive. Today's left problem is the vampire castle, wokeness, which is liberal, bourgeois and in favor of capital.

Yeah I shouldn't have said "progressivism" but the neo-liberal system obviously has their little pet protected classes which they use to morally justify the financial system, squash dissidents, and generally control the culture. This is so obviously a tool of the "capitalist" system and the "post-woke" left will barely touch it.

Nor will they touch the global capitalist's agenda to create a global homogenized culture where the entire planet is mocha brown with little consumer-sexual/racial identities that groups get to have if their good boys. Chapotard's absolute FEAR of touching this subject exposes their insincerity to actually criticize the system.

[Anonymous No.15241587]

>>15241528
>>15241166

Do you think a genuine red-brown alliance would be able to be formed between the far-right and the anti-woke left.

[Anonymous No.15241604]

>>15241582
>the global capitalist's agenda to create a global homogenized culture where the entire planet is mocha brown with little consumer-sexual/racial identities
that's your own neuroses talking bud

[Anonymous No.15241622]

>>15241604
>i'll psychopathologize and shame my opponents to avoid addressing them in dialogue

Faggot. You think like a woman.

[Anonymous No.15241625]

>>15241587
The dissident-right is absolutely willing to ally with the anti-woke left at this point, but the anti-woke left is still attached to moral approval from the system. I somewhat doubt they will ever move past this, possibly because they don't have religion so they instead submit to man's moral structure.

>>15241604
How on earth can you be a critic of the global-capitalist system and not see the utility in them doing this. It is beyond obvious at this point, only the pain of accepting it is stopping leftists from seeing it

[Anonymous No.15241637]

>>15241371
It's short and funny in parts, just read it.

[Anonymous No.15241639]

>>15241582
>Nor will they touch the global capitalist's agenda to create a global homogenized culture where the entire planet is mocha brown with little consumer-sexual/racial identities that groups get to have if their good boys. Chapotard's absolute FEAR of touching this subject exposes their insincerity to actually criticize the system.
No real leftist would touch this subject because it only exists in the minds of right-wing schizos.

>the neo-liberal system obviously has their little pet protected classes which they use to morally justify the financial system, squash dissidents, and generally control the culture. This is so obviously a tool of the "capitalist" system and the "post-woke" left will barely touch it.
I'm not sure what you mean by "their little pet protected classes", but why do you think the "post-woke" left would not touch it?

>>15241587
>Do you think a genuine red-brown alliance would be able to be formed between the far-right and the anti-woke left
No, that's a liberal delusion. As I see it, fascists ultimately side with capital to further their goals. They may hate neoliberalism, but they're okay with the other forms the capitalist state apparatus takes.

[Anonymous No.15241652]

>>15241587
no. neither side will want that. but they can become mutually loud enough to clear the playing field and force many to choose sides (even the nazbols) for the final fight.

[Anonymous No.15241660]

>will the left team up with the far right do defeat evil wizard neoliberalism?!?!???
holy shit. /pol/cucks can literally only think in terms of marvel movies

[Anonymous No.15241667]

Dark Deleuze is better than Based Deleuze

Have you read Capitalist Realism? Or Zizek in the Clinic?

[Anonymous No.15241673]

>>15241625
>How on earth can you be a critic of the global-capitalist system and not see the utility in them doing this. It is beyond obvious at this point, only the pain of accepting it is stopping leftists from seeing it

Some people still fail to realize that such agendas like mass-immigration are pro-corporate, in essence -- same with any agenda of race-mixing.

One race, one world, one government. To even pretend people in high places never want more power is just pure ignorance.

[Anonymous No.15241684]

>>15241639
>As I see it, fascists ultimately side with capital to further their goals
Wall street has always sided with communism and sided with the USSR against fascism in WW2. Not saying this to support fascism, it's all shit.

>No real leftist would touch this subject because it only exists in the minds of right-wing schizos.
You're not sincerely a leftist if you do not admit this. It's common sense that capitalism is a deconstructive razing force sweeping across the planet disintegrating organic local cultures into one mass homogenized consumer culture which can be standardized and controlled. Organic identity and culture cannot be commodified by the system so they must standardize the entire planet for consumption/production. This is leftist critique against capitalism 101.

>I'm not sure what you mean by "their little pet protected classes", but why do you think the "post-woke" left would not touch it?
Because it's naughty and the system says you're a heretic/sinner if you dare criticize their proxy-warrior groups masking as "vulnerable sexual/racial minorities" which ARE being used as the razing disintegrating capitalist force. Why do you think Trump and the entire capitalist sphere is pushing to normalize homosexuality in places where the local cultures are against it? Because it's part of the disintegration-capital process

[Anonymous No.15241685]

>>15241673
>one race, one world, one government
Based

[Anonymous No.15241695]

>>15241587
anti-woke left doesn't really exist. it's all a sad little act. someone post the picture of the chapos partying in their nice big suburban house with champagne and hipsters wearing the "freshest" yeezies, google purged it not surprisingly.

[Anonymous No.15241701]

>>15241625
>>15241166

I think the far-right and far-left are not going to get anywhere for a long time if they don't ally now. The system is gearing up to censor all dissent, after what happened with Bernie and Trump.

[Anonymous No.15241714]

>>15241639
>As I see it, fascists ultimately side with capital to further their goals. They may hate neoliberalism, but they're okay with the other forms the capitalist state apparatus takes.
The Fascists will side with any system that allows them to express their idealism. If that's communism, so be it. Remember, the Soviet Union was called red-Fascism for a reason. China today could be considered red-Fascist and the far-right admires China.

[Anonymous No.15241717]

>>15241667
>Dark Deleuze
Haven't read it but I've heard good things about it. Would you consider it under the post-woke doomer-leftist umbrella term?

>Capitalist Realism
Of course.

>Zizek in the Clinic
Haven't read it but just wanted to point out that for me it seems that Zero Books is like the theory driver of the post-woke left. I don't know why guys like Justin Murphy or Xenoghotic don't publish with Zero Books though.

>You're not sincerely a leftist if you do not admit this. It's common sense that capitalism is a deconstructive razing force sweeping across the planet disintegrating organic local cultures into one mass homogenized consumer culture which can be standardized and controlled. Organic identity and culture cannot be commodified by the system so they must standardize the entire planet for consumption/production. This is leftist critique against capitalism 101
culture =/= race and the guy I responded to phrased it in a way that appeared as it was all a secret agenda planned by something or someone (guess who that is in his mind)

[Anonymous No.15241722]

>>15241673
The revolution of Mass and Scale: James Burnham and Sam Francis.

[Anonymous No.15241730]

>>15241717
meant to quote >>15241684 at the end

>Why do you think Trump and the entire capitalist sphere is pushing to normalize homosexuality in places where the local cultures are against it?
I literally have no idea what you're talking about, I'm not even American

[Anonymous No.15241747]

I'm watching that documentary "tfw no gf" that someone recommended in that other thread, and god it's just SHIT.
Some film-school hack took the actual interesting fenomenon of internet subcultures and incels and turned it into another boomer documentary about "loneliness" and "social media isolation", complete with interviews with your regular twitter incel influencers where they give really boring takes on how "i found people like me" and shit, while they're walking around scenic places and "casually" smoking cigarrettes on camera like the attention whores they are.
No wonder the old bitch from the beginning liked it, it's completely uncontroversial and inofensive, just with a dressing of shitty wojak animations. it's shit.

[Anonymous No.15241748]

>>15241673
>>15241684
This obviously what's going on, from a far-right perspective. Why the left doesn't acknowledge this, I don't know. The left is just cucked, and I say that as an ex-leftist. They literally exist to uphold the taboo structure designed by the oligarchs.

[Anonymous No.15241758]

>>15241695
Google censored it?

[Anonymous No.15241760]

>>15241717
>culture =/= race and the guy I responded to phrased it in a way that appeared as it was all a secret agenda planned by something or someone (guess who that is in his mind)

I'm the same person who replied. The system weaponizes racial categorization for control, and it is obviously both a secret agenda and instinctual for the elites to carry this out. They believe if they homogenize the races it will be easier to homogenize the cultures, which it will be.

>>15241730
>I literally have no idea what you're talking about, I'm not even American
The Trump admin and the general American capitalist system exports and enforces homosexuality to places they want to conquer and implement their system. Africa, for example

[Anonymous No.15241769]

>>15241747
The only intelligent person on there was Kantbot. The fucking other participants were literally just incels who never read a book.

[Anonymous No.15241775]

>>15241722
Thanks for this, led me to finally read up on Francis and realize some things. Ordering his book now.

[Anonymous No.15241784]

>>15241747
how would you have approached it then

[Anonymous No.15241791]

>>15241784
idk that's not my job. but i can call out something when it's bad

[Anonymous No.15241797]

>>15241775
Francis is basically the godfather of most far-right ideas. He was truly revolutionary for his time and represented the first time in a long time that Marxist analysis was applied to American right-wing politics. He realized back then that conservatism was dead.

[Anonymous No.15241813]

>>15241775
Which one are you getting? leviathan and its enemies?

[Anonymous No.15241820]

>>15241797
Where the fuck do you find Sam Francis books I can't find them anywhere

[Anonymous No.15241847]

>>15241820
I got mine on Amazon. All of his work is good, but Leviathan and its Enemies is his magnum opus.

[Anonymous No.15241859]

interesting conversation in this thread, the anti-woke left has room to grow but they have to ditch their obsession with uniting everyone.

Just focus on uniting 1 country please, even that is hard enough with multi-racialism.

The problem with the far left is completely that they will never really be a threat to the system, Bernie was an example of that. They still see, ultimately, masculinity as a thing to be eliminated. Even in matriarchal societies masculinity was prized as a way of defending their way of life.

[Anonymous No.15241882]

>>15241859
>The problem with the far left is completely that they will never really be a threat to the system, Bernie was an example of that. They still see, ultimately, masculinity as a thing to be eliminated. Even in matriarchal societies masculinity was prized as a way of defending their way of life.
The left has just been psyop'd into oblivion. They want to rage against capitalism but fall for every trick the capitalist system throws at them. I think they have a weird relationship to authority due to their irreligious-ness, they still submit to the system's moral authority because they don't believe there's an objective moral framework above it.

[Anonymous No.15241883]

>>15241760
I'm sorry, I don't know if you're being ironic or not, but you sound like the quintissential /pol/ schizo lmao

[Anonymous No.15241898]

>>15241859
I had this friend who was a very thoughtful and diligent leftist and reader of leftist material but he would openly say, verbatim, that masculinity and "willpower" are "evil."

He was a delicate poet type and very brilliant so I imagine he would have been a sensitive soul in any era, but it was sad to see the way he had been twisted to serve a faggoty ideology of weakness and to be a useful idiot for globalism.

[Anonymous No.15241899]

>>15241883
>but you sound like the quintissential /pol/ schizo lmao
The reason the left will go extinct

[Anonymous No.15241984]

>>15241859
Masculinity is needed to establish exclusive economic zones. Deterritorialization requires the undermining of masculinity in order for the society not to lay claim to territory. Women aren't nearly as defensive as men when it comes to securing borders. The oligarchs want a fluid, feminized, cosmopolitan world.

[Anonymous No.15242000]

>>15241882
>The left has just been psyop'd into oblivion.
What do you expect from an ideological framework developed in academia?
I think the far-right is currently being psyoped into becoming National Socialists right now. Th people promoting it seem to be feds, like Mike Enoch and Richard Spencer.

[Anonymous No.15242012]

>>15242000
>I think the far-right is currently being psyoped into becoming National Socialists right now. Th people promoting it seem to be feds, like Mike Enoch and Richard Spencer.
Yes but luckily most people see through the "nat soc wignat twitter" psyop and Spencer/Enoch are a meme

[Anonymous No.15242019]

>>15241899
The left is stuck in an echo-chamber whos boundaries have been manufactured for them by the intelligentsia and oligarchs. They can't rebel against anything because they refuse to transgress against genuine power.

[Anonymous No.15242031]

>>15242012
The natsoc shit is literally a dead end. It's too esoteric to mean much about anything. Most of it is Jargon that takes advantage of your emotions. When speaking to them, it becomes readily apparent that the vast majority haven't read many books.

[Anonymous No.15242045]

>>15242031
that whole sphere of the internet right wing are glowers and airheads

[Anonymous No.15242064]

>>15242000
I'd be more worried about the neo-reactionaries than the NatSocs as far as psyops are concerned.

[Anonymous No.15242070]

>>15241582
I think you got a very good take there. The one thing the radical utopian left and the capitalist machine do have in common is their universal world view that there is some sort of free love hippie inside all of us that is repressed by social codes and traditions/cultures. So they like to take this Deleuzean opinion of positive desiring productions with the promise to save us from repression of these codes while implementing these enlightenment-tier ones they prefer while calling everyone who fails to adapt to them as neurotic.
All this happens and when you then take a look at it you have radical leftist intellectuals (like Guattari) writting and going on a literal crusades agaisnt everything that fits the mold of capitalism saying things like "monogamous relations" are capitalistic, "families are unimportant and a myth" which ironically are ideas that any super corporation would love to hear and endorse.
And it think its very surprising that, around this time, after having this movement of post-modern left wing philosophy turning popular you see that the number of serious left-wing labour movements and student protests dissolving and being less frequent and organized.

[Anonymous No.15242096]

>>15242064
Yeah. I've noticed some funny business around there as well. The glowies are scared after 2016. They're on to us.
>>15242045
Half of leftist thinkers are glowies trying to psyop them. I'm pretty sure Contrapoints is CIA.

[Anonymous No.15242109]

>>15242070
>"monogamous relations" are capitalistic, "families are unimportant and a myth"
This is simply anti-human. No human being can possibly enjoy a future devoid of those two things.

[Anonymous No.15242141]

>>15242070
>I think you got a very good take there. The one thing the radical utopian left and the capitalist machine do have in common is their universal world view that there is some sort of free love hippie inside all of us that is repressed by social codes and traditions/cultures.
I don't think this is necessarily true. In the Victorian Era in the US and UK there were "in theory" repressive laws on sexual norms. In the US for example it was illegal to send information about birth control in the mail.

[Anonymous No.15242148]

>>15242141
I forgot to write that in the US at that time period was basically a libertarian paradise. Furthermore a lot of the political advocates of free love, etc. were left-wing. The way these things seem to find their way into being law is through the sons and daughters of the rich becoming leftist, which seems to be a common phenomenon really.

[Anonymous No.15242253]

>>15241485
This, I agree with leftists on almost everything, but I find myself put off by how pissy they get over language. Those fags need to grow a pair and see the forest through the trees. Inclusive speak is not how you win the working man of any background.

[Anonymous No.15242333]

>>15242109
I wouldnt take it as "anti-human" as if it is impossible, there were various societies and other cultures which had this, but i just reject that there is one big universal one underlying us, ready to come out.
But it has become very obvious, specially when you look at Guattari's personal life, that they simply want to advocate and push their own personal values into the center, with the mask of universality. Guattari's apperance as some hippie radical socialist completly fades away as soon as you see how he treated his patients, how he left his kids developing health problems from lack of hygiene and the iron fist rule he had inside his group for simple minor things agaisnt anyone who was about to form into a exclusive relationship.

>>15242141
>>15242148
I would say that those laws were still remains of the old despotic machines that got away for the benefit of the rising capitalist globalization. US might have been a libertarian paradise, but the big mega corporations were still forming and not fully developed thus they werent needing to decode those things yet.
Im not denying that a lot of those politicians werent leftists, im just pointing out how many of the "progressive utopian" leftist values were the first things getting absorbed by corporations, cemented into the socius, greatly helping the capitalist machine, while the economic leftist thought was left to rot.

[Anonymous No.15242349]

>>15242333
What I'm saying is, a big reason that progressive values were absorbed by corporations were because the people staffing these corporations had either learned leftist values in school or were the children of the rich who became leftist out of guilt. For example, one of the foremost apologists for Stalin in the US was the son of one of JP Morgan's executives iirc. Not that he really understood what he was apologizing for, Anglosphere socialism is just a theory of niceness really. Another big factor in the US is of course the Civil Rights act.

[Anonymous No.15242551]

so, what is the future of leftist movements? localism? american syndicalism? capitalist realism seem even more pervasive in worldwide crisis mode, is there an escape or will it be decades of incrementalist policy until ecologic collapse takes us?

[Anonymous No.15242567]

>>15241458

[Anonymous No.15242580]

>>15242551
crushing disappointment

[Anonymous No.15242585]

>>15242551
Change will happen in the next ten years when the boomers die and the younger generation gains power.

[Anonymous No.15242592]

>>15242551
The enforcement arm of the oligarchs. The left has thought itself into a trap they can't get out of.

By the time any leftist has dismantled the psyops imposed on him, he's become a right-winger with leftist economics.

[Anonymous No.15242597]

>>15242580
Only if they continue on their self-destructive path.

[Anonymous No.15242598]

>>15241667
>Dark Deleuze
>Capitalist Realism
holy fuck go back

[Anonymous No.15242603]

>>15242592
That's literally what happened to me. I think leftist power will decline once liberal arts colleges go bankrupt.

[Anonymous No.15242619]

>>15242598
>>15242567
Fuck off with your rage comics you zero-contribution cunt.

[Anonymous No.15242637]

>>15242551
>capitalist realism seem even more pervasive in worldwide crisis mode
Not really, crises are always an opportunity for leftists.

>>15242592
>By the time any leftist has dismantled the psyops imposed on him, he's become a right-winger with leftist economics
lmao, because communist workers pre-Cold War were very racist, misogynistic and nationalistic, right? What a worthless /pol/tard take.

[Anonymous No.15242639]

>>15242619
What has this faggot thread contributed to anything? You're all fucking retards educated by twitter posts

[Anonymous No.15242643]

>>15242592
>>15242580

well that's precisely the problem, isn't? the only way out of capitalism is brute force. there is no accelerationism in reality, we will die before we see the end of capitalism. how can one cope with realization? that's why I think VR escapism will be the wave in future generations. why cope with it when you can just create a better world even if it's just in your mind?

[Anonymous No.15242650]

>>15242637
a lot of them were, actually.

[Anonymous No.15242660]

>>15241166
Ecelebs suuuuk

[Anonymous No.15242663]

>>15242637
>lmao, because communist workers pre-Cold War were very racist, misogynistic and nationalistic, right? What a worthless /pol/tard take.
Holy shit you fucking retard lmao

USSR:
>ethno nationalistic
>banned homosexuality
>exiled Jews
>more socially and artistically conservative than the capitalist west

The average communist idelogue wanted communism for their families Not to buttfuck trannies behind a dumpster and feminist empowerment

[Anonymous No.15242667]

[Anonymous No.15242671]

>>15242643
Only way out of the "system" (I avoid the term "capitalism" because it is materialist and reductive), is to build out of it with localism. People need to start building local communities and parallel the power of the system. The Amish and Mormons have done it.

[Anonymous No.15242675]

>>15241166
>25 posters
why is this spam shit allowed when good threads get deleted?

[Anonymous No.15242676]

>>15242663
Thankyou, anon. Some people are so retarded.

[Anonymous No.15242681]

>>15242663
So why aren't you and your far-right "anti-capitalist" schizo friends praising the USSR and using it as your model for your ethnonation? You're full of shit.

[Anonymous No.15242692]

>>15242671
It's curious to say the least that you don't mention the most successful form of localism in modern times, the kibbutz.

[Anonymous No.15242698]

>>15242667
Does Megan have a political voice, though? Haven't read Liveblog.

[Anonymous No.15242699]

>>15242671
you could add the zapatistas

[Anonymous No.15242703]

>>15242681
>So why aren't you and your far-right "anti-capitalist" schizo friends praising the USSR and using it as your model for your ethnonation? You're full of shit.
????

The far-right constantly uses the USSR as an example against the liberal west, proving that communism was literally more conservative than capitalism. Stalin is also an half-ironic far-right icon.

right-wing American Francis Yockey after WW2 tried to build an alliance between the remaining fascist forces in Europe with the USSR against the capitalist west and was assasinated in a jail cell in California

Leftists literally have no fucking clue what's going on, ever. They are 5 years behind at all times

[Anonymous No.15242710]

>>15242698
She's radically pro-sincerity and anti-irony

[Anonymous No.15242716]

>>15242671
>Not using “capitalism” and instead mystifying and obfuscating your point
K.

[Anonymous No.15242720]

>>15241166
Meggo for Aldervape-woman

[Anonymous No.15242724]

>>15242699
>>15242692
no clue what either of those are

[Anonymous No.15242727]

>>15242716
>misdiagnosing the problem with a materialist category when capitalism is only a symptom of the root problem

[Anonymous No.15242733]

>>15242724
that means it worked

[Anonymous No.15242748]

>>15242733
Looked em up, interesting

I just tell people, look who's free in this world. The Mongolians, amish, ect. people like that. Find out how they did it and do that. I don't really buy a lot of this "political" nonsense, you just gotta start a local community and start farming and center it around religion imo

[Anonymous No.15242756]

>>15242703
Why isn't the support more overt though? Why half-jokingly?

[Anonymous No.15242767]

what's the point of this discussion. nobody cares about the woke left or the Pepe right's antics, it's the same vapid culture war drama that's been playing out since the southern strategy. "the left" is not gonna see any gains until they start taking to the streets

[Anonymous No.15242787]

>>15242756
Cuz gulags, suppression of Orthodox Church and it imploded on itself. Most far-righters will agree Stalin was more "based" than any democratically elected leaders in the 20th century, beside the gulags. What do you think shit like Duganism is?

I personally don't like any of em, I just am always surprised how out of touch lefties are about the right-wing and history. I see "marxists" literally thinking the USSR was some liberal-progressive utopia or some shit

[Anonymous No.15242837]

>>15242787
My point still stands though, pre-Cold War leftist workers weren't racists, nor misogynists nor nationalists. You just listed some shady things the USSR did. That doesn't cut it.

[Anonymous No.15242846]

>>15242837
>pre-Cold War leftist workers weren't racists, nor misogynists nor nationalists

It was a fucking ethnostate with traditional patriarichal family structures decked out in hyper-nationalist art/music lmao what on earth is wrong with you. Literally the USSR was more right-wing than America in the 20th century, which is why they're still more conservative today.

[Anonymous No.15242879]

>>15242846
Child of former Soviets here, this is exactly correct. In fact, what they miss the most is exactly this traditionalist shit, not the commie economics.

[Anonymous No.15242891]

>>15242879
They say the gulags were real?

Something in my gut says they weren't real

[Anonymous No.15242896]

>>15242846
You keep talking about what the USSR was. But you have no real insight into what your average leftist worker thought back then. If you want to win the argument that pre-psyop'd average leftists were just as right-wing as your average redpilled /pol/ schizo and that psyop'd modern leftists aren't like that because they've been psyop'd, then you have to prove that pre-psyop'd leftist were right-wing in the first place. But you can't, you don't have the evidence, the hard data. Anecdotal "evidence" like >>15242879 won't prove it either. You can only resort to "but look what the USSR did", which doesn't prove anything about how leftists were back then. And on top of that this psyop thing is just retarded, it's just an American thing that no one but a right-wing schizo would think. Imagine thinking that LatAm or Middle East leftists were psyop'd and that's why they support feminism and aren't ethno-nationalists. Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.15242906]

>>15242896
Literally a deranged schizo post

[Anonymous No.15242921]

>>15242896
This is the retarded claim I'm referring to btw
>By the time any leftist has dismantled the psyops imposed on him, he's become a right-winger with leftist economics
Made here >>15242592

>>15242906
I think I'd sound less of a schizo if you knew what retarded take I'm refuting.

[Anonymous No.15242947]

>>15242896
Yes poor slavic orthodox Christian peasants had embraced western universal social liberal values about feminist liberation and trans rights. They clearly had globally egalitarian ideas and had overcome the patriarchy, ethnic identity, and national borders. There is no text in existence about the social lives of Russian workers anywhere, it's impossible to find. Everything I'm saying is just pulled out of my ass.

>>15242921
Global capitalism and leftist social revolution's interests align nearly 100% of the time. It's become a running joke at this point.

[Anonymous No.15242953]

>>15242891
I have no idea m8, sorry. None of my family went to one far as I know.

[Anonymous No.15242971]

>>15242947
lmao, I am not claiming that they were or did any of that. YOU are claiming that leftists pre-Cold War were right wing.
Let me explain how you're a fucking retard. I could pick the average normie from my country, and he wouldn't even know what the fuck feminism or trans right are. Patriarchy, ethnic identity, national borders? He wouldn't comprehend what you're telling him. That doesn't make him right wing. Being right-wing is a very strong state, which you have to prove the average leftist pre-Cold War was in. You're simply a brainlet if you think what you just posted amounts to a semblance of an argument.

[Anonymous No.15242980]

>>15241385
I read this in school very good

[Anonymous No.15242989]

>>15242971
No I claimed they were socially conservative and the USSR was more socially conservative than America in the 20th century.

I'm not claiming anyone was "Right-wing", as in having embraced some sophisticated neo-reactionary ideology which is basically foreign to Russia anyway. I claimed that Russian Communists were more socially conservative than the Liberal West, and that today's far-right uses the USSR as an example of communism having more conservative social results than capitalism.

[Anonymous No.15242999]

>>15242989
Oh okay, I thought you were the same retard that made the claim that I'm refuting, which is:
>By the time any leftist has dismantled the psyops imposed on him, he's become a right-winger with leftist economics

What you're claiming though, I agree with.

[Anonymous No.15243003]

these people are talentless grifters, not radicals in the slightest... even guenonfag's shilling is infinitely less nauseating than this wannabe psyop

[Anonymous No.15243007]

>>15242999
I am the same person who claimed that

It is true, today when a leftist removes the psyops imposed on them, they realize 70% of their worldview directly benefits global capitalism and the oligarchs. Why do you think PUBLICLY FUNDED universities teach this shit in college? The capitalist system is literally giving teachers money to teach "social revolution" in university. Why? Because it benefits them.

[Anonymous No.15243030]

>>15243007
>when a leftist removes the psyops imposed on them, they realize 70% of their worldview directly benefits global capitalism and the oligarchs
No. You're speaking on brainlet American schizo/pol/tard terms. I'll translate:

>when a liberal realizes that wokeness and political correctness is imposed on them, they realize 70% of their worldview directly benefits global capitalism and the oligarchs
And so they become a leftist. NOT a right-winger, because that requires extra steps in the direction of being a fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.15243223]

>>15241747
the amount of times the guys tried to be smoking on camera was cringe. god damn bro we get it, ur only ugly loser retard failure cos u dont give a fuck and are too big brained for society!!!, hence the constant signalling u dont care via smoking. crazy how you can draw out so much of their personality, their wants and desires, their insecurities...all from one little thing.

t. disgusting full time smoker

P.S. i also thought documentary was bad (imo it was a series of purposeless vignettes of not very interesting people), but im glad!

[Anonymous No.15243321]

>>15241556
>Mark Fisher
Sounds at least a notch above you typical e-retards, and with a genuine desire for change (instead of just compulsion to appeal to an edgy audience). I suppose his student might fit the bill.

[Anonymous No.15243537]

>>15241166
all of this is trash and belongs to twitter not /lit/ as much as these lurker fags want to be part of the "underground hacker collective annymous" they dont have it, too much attention whoring makes you a bitch nigger murphy is the epitome of this

[Anonymous No.15243546]

>>15241242
>>15241195
>>15241206
>>15241303

based

[Anonymous No.15243630]

>>15242096
>Contrapoints is CIA
The standards of the agency were already pretty low but now we're hitting rock-bottom.

[Anonymous No.15243658]

>>15243630
They've also recruited caveman afghans, sicilian mafia thugs, death squads that kill priests, and psychotic drugged out hippies.

[Anonymous No.15243662]

so what is this, gavin mccinnes + judith butler?

[Anonymous No.15243976]

>>15241166
I've said it on every thread, and I'll say it again, people need to stop pretending that the e-celebs are any basis for this philosophy other than the spreaders of its influence. Post-woke radicalism is a precursor to the next philosophy, the proto-zoomerism. People who are:

a) Taking Twitter celebs seriously and praising them or;
b) Taking Twitter celebs seriously and shitting on them;

are retarded and miss the point of this.

Something interesting I've noted is that many leftists have spent their energy trying to convert left liberals to socialism, and asking them to ditch idpol in favour of class politics. The exact opposite has happened. Anti-capitalist tendencies within the right-wing have seemingly split from the neoliberal-libertarian agenda and are now pushing for socially-conservative post-capitalism, aligning them more with the left. It's sort of a cursed unholy coalition politics that embodies the exact opposite of the problem of most of the modern left.

Most of the modern left engages with social-democratic institutions such as Labor, the Democrats and etc. who are more or less a reformist coalition conscious of race and gender issues but fundamentally devoid of class consciousness. This is exactly why Sanders was never going to win the nomination; the democratic base is only barely social democratic, and is largely a compromise between financial capitalists, semiproletarians and the professional managerial class, who are all in favour of civil and social rights, but all largely operate under different class interests. I think, possibly, the industrial proletariat that largely supports the Republican party is gaining class consciousness and the coalition is forming, or at least an ideology that might fit a new coalition.

Don't expect a manifesto of this ideology from any of these pseuds though. They're merely the early rumblings of thunderous change. The ideologues will be people we haven't even heard of yet. The only serious manifestation of a movement toward this new philosophy is people like Fisher and Zizek begging the left to imagine what would happen after the revolution, but even they (as most people do) failed to see what the real alliance to engage in meaningful capitalism would be, because they simply view right and left as mutually exclusive. They're not, and postmodern political theory has done lots to set up and break down the distinguishing barriers that might have made this more obvious.

[Anonymous No.15244045]

I haven't read this thread at all but take a gander at the #AltWoke Manifesto
https://tripleampersand.org/alt-woke-manifesto/

>Woke is content with the status quo: it would be perfectly content if another economic collapse happened tomorrow, just as long as those who rigged it were sufficiently intersectional.
Woke is a sanctimonious grammar-nazi who critiques the bully’s phrasing of “stop hitting yourself,” through toothless gums. Woke is too ethical for its own good.
Woke is the gospel truth of the new evangelical Leftist. Woke is the Left’s consolidated failures distilled into a monosyllabic buzzword. A whimper into the digital landscape prefixed with a hashtag, arriving at the same point each time: #Woke is the literal antithesis of progress.

[Anonymous No.15244057]

>>15241166
Based im so glad more and more people are getting into Dark Enlightenment lit.
Dark Enlightenment is actually very quickly becoming a mainstream philosophical system, along with accelerationism

[Anonymous No.15244600]

>>15242551

Localist Futurism

[Anonymous No.15244620]

Night of the Long Retweets
https://youtu.be/iRAsgvCwQvg

[Anonymous No.15244629]

>>15242692
Werent the kibbutz the ones that tried very hard to implement gender equality and emancipate women from all jobs and domestic services by having communal kid homes only for these 2nd generation women later to want to abolish that system and actively prefering to raise their kids at home, partake more in service type work and even wanted to bring back traditional marriage institutions?
I honestly wonder how they have been doing in present day.

[Anonymous No.15244631]

>>15244057
This.

DarkWokism is the next big thing.

[Anonymous No.15244784]

>>15244631
I dont know if this is too much to ask, but care to explain in a very straight forward way what this dark deleuze thing is?

[Anonymous No.15244938]

>>15241303
>That's just cringy neo-reactionary bullshit
This is why I can never take this post-partisan, post-political LARPing seriously. Midwits just devolve into this reactive mode of tribal identification the moment any area thought which trespasses upon liberal-progressive pieties is suggested for investigation. You're still thinking like a sports fan.

Anybody who has anything critical or interesting to say about liberalism, under liberalism, is going to be reactionary to some extent or other.

[Anonymous No.15244989]

>>15241587
The left will never appreciate race realism and will never criticize Jewish power probably because kantbot, chapo, trueanon are all jewish

[Anonymous No.15245124]

>>15241447
Doomer-leftists are just temporarily disappointed Berniefagging who are constantly parasitizing off of reactionary memes because they have nothing new, original, or genuinely radical to say. Insofar as these people may become radical, it will be through a synthesis with reactionary ideas. Which is already what dissidents on the right are doing, only it's happening in an inverse order where they're integrating post-modern or leftist critiques into their worldview.

[Anonymous No.15245205]

>>15241515
Chapo memes are the memetic equivalent of christian rap.

[Anonymous No.15245217]

>>15241166
might fool around and write Based Derrida

[Anonymous No.15245285]

>>15241639
>I'm not sure what you mean by "their little pet protected classes"

Gay and transgender people are the most ideal people under capitalism--highly sexual yet fully sterile, usually fully deracinated of traditional culture, they have much more time and focus to dedicate to working, instead of having a family, etc. In short, the ideal young professional consumer in the urban economy.

In culture, they approximate the role of the janissaries in the ottoman system--born of a traditional community, sterilized, politically weaponized in service of the hegemon to enforce the destruction of their original community's values.

[Anonymous No.15245300]

>>15241730
The US State Department (not Trump's specifically) advocates for human rights legislation in foreign countries

[Anonymous No.15245319]

>>15241314
Twitter celebs are twitter celebs because they are good at twitter, not good at writing fiction

[Anonymous No.15245401]

>>15241166
>Justin Murphy

lmao

[Anonymous No.15245545]

>>15245401
kek

[Anonymous No.15245555]

Eh, I just bought The Pussy. The other two seem like a waste of time, but The Pussy looks interesting. I've always been very cautious about being meme'd into reading something, but if you guys are going to meme me into reading anything, it might as well be a distinctly 4chan-esque book.

[Anonymous No.15245875]

This entire movement is the literary and philosophical equivalent of pic related and I can't wait for it to come to nothing like all the other online movements before it.

[Anonymous No.15245892]

>>15241274
Beyond based. /lit/niggers will torch you for having exquisite taste because its not some old european holocaust survivor writing schlock about human nature or gay shit like that

[Anonymous No.15246110]

>>15241417
Give them a break. They are literally more wounded by Biden the rapist beating Bernie. Woman would literally vote for an alpha Chad like Biden than Bernie.

>>15241447
Where. The USA? Noone gives a shit about chapo-tier politics in the rest of the world.

[Anonymous No.15246181]

>yes, I'm into the post-woke doomer-radical intellectuals, how did you know?

[Anonymous No.15246462]

>>15241166
There are, broadly speaking, two camps in the post-woke left.
The first, and largest, is essentially a reskin of wokeness. This group doesn’t fundamentally disagree with any woke doctrines, they just think that woke politics are counterproductive, subordinate to class, bad when co-opted by capitalists, etc., but never wrong. This camp has no future. It is a transparent demonstration of the dead end of the left.
The second, typified by some of the personalities named in OP, is more interesting. This group is “left wing” but only insofar as that means “anti-authoritarian,” and are therefore willing to jettison woke ideas in order to undermine authority. The essential problem with this group is it’s mistaken assumptions about authority: that authority is nothing more than an ideologically cloaked species of power. If it cannot get beyond this error it will implode into a kind of nihilism, and therefore once again find itself at the service of bourgeois, instrumental, affluent, technological ends.

[Anonymous No.15246484]

>>15246462
>it will implode into a kind of nihilism
It already has.

[Anonymous No.15246528]

>>15246484
That is a shame, if true. What the ones I’m familiar with did get right is that in our era, truth can only be found in rebellion against the fundamental falseness of the affluent society. But it seems they can’t make the next step. Unfortunate.

[Anonymous No.15246531]

>>15246462
>that authority is nothing more than an ideologically cloaked species of power. If it cannot get beyond this error
then what is authority, ideology, power

where is the error?

[Anonymous No.15246537]

>>15245285
This. I genuinely don't understand how leftists fail to see how many of their ideals are or are waiting to be co-opted by capital. Open borders, gender transitioning and the lgbt community at large, and for a merging of all cultures(which whether they like it or not is spearheaded by American capital forces as a whole). They're too scared to criticize and reflect on their own beliefs, which is something that will occur amongst those who lean more "right."
Bravo to capitalism, turning people into their own footsoldiers without even needing to do anything. It's impressive.

[Anonymous No.15246555]

As people are saying here any authentically radical movement will have to adopt elements of what you might call the "Ur-Right" to oppose liberal hegemony. This hegemon's truest enemies are the ones whose goals cannot be accommodated within liberalism. Liberalism's strongest weapon in its quest for global hegemony is human rights imperialism. Its enemies are those that say "we don't want quality of life, we don't want democracy, we don't want a higher GDP, we don't want rights, we do want X". Today, this X is limited to white supremacy and adjacent positions, political Islam, and Chinese/Russian sovereignty contrasted with a US-policed world order.

In the past, Socialism was probably one of the X positions. The issue with the anti-woke leftist crowd is that they are perhaps the greatest consumers of human rights imperial dogma, and have thus been pacified and neutralized by the System. All the accusations of "limousine leftist" and "bourgeois radical" stem from people being able to smell this duplicity inherent in modern leftist radicalism. In fact, the modern leftist is one of the greatest friends of the System. The System cannot yet use the violent means it uses on the "external X's" of China, Russia, and Islam on its internal X of white power adjacents, so it outsources the project of destroying internal opposition to global liberalism to the "private" sector. This private sector is, of course, the information sector and chattering classes who determine what is in "good taste" what is "just not right" and "just evil", and those who decide just how free free speech should be. And just who are these people, exactly? These people are the modern leftist radicals, who enjoy such privilege and social prestige under liberalism.

After all, when you can be an esteemed public intellectual, a victorious fash-basher, or a holy symbol of the oppressed all the world over under liberalism, how much did you ever need actually-existing Socialism?

[Anonymous No.15246605]

>>15246531
Authority is that which stands conceptually opposite to childishness. It comes from the Latin auctoritas, meaning to raise up, to grow.
In a childish society (such as ours), there is no shortage of raw, coercive power. There is a shortage, however, of authority, which implies (1) the existence of an objectively true, transcendent ideal, upwards towards which man must be lifted, and (2) a kind of interior submission based on evidence of the truth of this ideal, which is therefore more radical than the kind of exterior submission achieved by base power (potestas).
Authority, thus construed, is the basis of benevolent non-left-wing political thought, which is also very rare today.

[Anonymous No.15246637]

The old dirtbag left/spritual doomer phenomena is a legitimate organic trend, and it is growing as a result of the total failure of CIA influenced new left (“woke leftism”) ideological cancer. Be cautious as CIA will likely try to gain control of and steer the “new old left” trend in their interests as they did the “new left”, although that danger aside this is a very positive development.

Marxist Neo-dharmaic esoteric doomer Gang Gang Gang

[Anonymous No.15246656]

>>15245555
It's not well written or literary, but it expresses true contemporary feelings I had not seen expressed in a fiction book before. Worth my time.

[Anonymous No.15246658]

>>15246605
>an objectively true, transcendent ideal, upwards towards which man must be lifted,
Where can I read more about this objective true ideal? Does all authority have the same truth?

[Anonymous No.15246736]

>>15246658
Yes, it is the same, given as part of universal human nature The ideal is God, knowledge of whom is accessible by participation in the logos, which we are doing right now.

Here is more commentary on authority thus construed: https://delnoceinenglish.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/authority1975.pdf.. It’s a pdf, heads up

[Anonymous No.15246799]

>>15246736
>God
not reading that but thanks for the link

[Anonymous No.15246825]

>>15246799
Suit yourself. I think that grappling with the real problems of atheism might do you some good, but you will do that as they become evident to you in the reality we both inhabit.

[Anonymous No.15246872]

>>15246736
>>15246736
>is God, knowledge of whom is accessible by participation in the logos,
I agree but that essay is too arbitrary and I don't see Del Noce as completing the jump from The Catholic God to an absolute God like Spinoza (or Deleuze). It leaves authority open to abuse by any of those that claim knowledge of the one true god. All the talk of traditional family seems like a fallacious appeal to tradition. They come off as a jealous prude and then start getting into the pomo weeds and flagellating themselves about how mean Stalin was to prove that we should listen to the Pope?
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm
>Let us take by way if example a cotton spinning mill. The cotton must pass through at least six successive operations before it is reduced to the state of thread, and these operations take place for the most part in different rooms. Furthermore, keeping the machines going requires an engineer to look after the steam engine, mechanics to make the current repairs, and many other labourers whose business it is to transfer the products from one room to another, and so forth.

>All these workers, men, women and children, are obliged to begin and finish their work at the hours fixed by the authority of the steam, which cares nothing for individual autonomy.

>If man, by dint of his knowledge and inventive genius, has subdued the forces of nature, the latter avenge themselves upon him by subjecting him,

>in so far as he employs them, to a veritable despotism independent of all social organisation. Wanting to abolish authority in large-scale industry is tantamount to wanting to abolish industry itself, to destroy the power loom in order to return to the spinning wheel

[Anonymous No.15246874]

>>15241166
>Justin Murphy
Can someone explain to me who this guy is? Feel like he came out of nowhere and listening to this conversation makes me highly suspicion that he's a fed of some sort

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE3kq9LFkZg

>How right wing are you?
>Are you racists?
These are classic fed questions

[Anonymous No.15246886]

>>15246736
>Rosmini

is this the new guenon?

[Anonymous No.15247073]

>>15242748
Are the Mongol really religious though? It seems like any kind of common ethos can play the role of religion as long as it's strong enough (on local scale, that is).

[Anonymous No.15247202]

>>15243658
>competent well-organized criminals
>experienced guerilleros
>professional murderers
All of those are higher than a youtube "celebrity", on top of being closer by trade to the CIA itself which is essentially thugs on state payroll targeted at political threats. I concede you the drugged out hippies.

[Anonymous No.15247310]

>>15246874
He's just a Rubin type grifter trying to develop a following by hanging out with the grifters. I hope he's a fed though, that would actually make him kinda based.

[Anonymous No.15247366]

>>15245319
My point precisely, but that also applies to native "celebs" on /lit/, which is what I was focusing on. We may believe that Kantbot will be a good thinker because he's a legit autists and closer to /lit/ than to twitter maybe. In practice you can be sure he'll only write turgid self-indulgent shit.

[Anonymous No.15247381]

>>15246874
All you need to know about him is that the people he interviews will always be infinitely more interesting and relevant than Justin thinks he is, though he is a decent interviewer, so his streams are worth watching for that reason alone. Despite his radical pretentions, Justin himself is a pretty standard issue progressive, and though he does occasionally like to masturbate with genuinely radical ideas on a superficial level, he will discard them the moment they've satiated his short-lived curiosity and never seriously consider integrating them into his general worldview, even if he concedes their rightness.

Nothing is of the table with him, and he'll never pass up an opportunity to remind you of that fact... unless it's something that could be considered racist, sexist or homophobic - then he'll start clutching his pearls and basically devolve into a typical shitlib. He knows how far he can go before doors start closing on him within the general spheres he likes to orbit, and he'll never cross those lines.

Watch him, he's harmless. I haven't read his book though, I'd be interested to hear some takes on it.

[Anonymous No.15247391]

>>15244629
Dunno about the gender roles, but the kibbutzim still exist and the people raised in them are overrepresented among startup makers. Apparently they upbringing bring them a kind of perspective that succeeds well in an high-added-value market.
>tfw quasi-commies are the best at modern capitalism

[Anonymous No.15247395]

>>15244620
This skit is probably the only good thing to come out of sam hyde/MDE. everything else is dogshit

[Anonymous No.15247426]

>>15245892
You're painting the antagonism too starkly. Some books are legit retarded and you don't need to be a Nabokov-like turbosnob to dislike them. That especially applies to meme books.

[Anonymous No.15247463]

lmao at the fascists thinking that the only option for the left to survive is to side with them and their retarded ideals
read Mark Fisher you dimwits

[Anonymous No.15247489]

>>15247463
They're not fascists, they're neo-reactionaries and post-politic ironybros.

[Anonymous No.15247505]

>>15246872
This is a good response, and one that I think might help demonstrate something important. One of the best technical definitions of “modern” (as opposed to pre-modern” that I have heard is the denial of mediation. I have no direct familiarity with Deleuze, but this is definitely evident in Spinoza, for whom the absolute exists, but cannot be mediated.
This idea translates into a discomfort with the incarnation of ideals — the absolute is either totally immanent in me (Spinoza) or else way far off, but there is nothing in the world towards which we can direct ourself and say “that is the ideal,” like, just for example, Jesus, Son of God, as mediated through the physical Church.
Now, we start to see here how we in our era have a hard time in generating ideals. How can we, as an actually existing society, go about pursuing any shared ideal if it cannot mediated?

>>15246886
Like Guenon, Rossmini worked to purify the classical metaphysics of its defects, and answer the criticisms leveled by the early moderns.
Unlike Guenon he is willing/thinks it possible to deal with modernity on shared terms.

[Anonymous No.15247532]

>>15247489
so they're fascists

[Anonymous No.15247543]

>>15247532
theyre fascists the way obama is a communist

[Anonymous No.15247560]

>>15247463
>f-fascists
Yikes.

[Anonymous No.15247568]

>>15247532
Not yet, but probably will be.

[Anonymous No.15247574]

Alright, listen up you faggots:

>Bronze Age Pervert
>Delicious Tacos
>Cum Town
>Moldbug
>Taleb
>Red Scare
>Chapo Trap House
>Nick Land
>Tek Wars
>TrueAnon
>etc

Don't post here if you know these people.

They're to literary, philosophical, and cultural discussion what twitch streamers or lets players are to video games.

It's degenerate "nerd" culture for alienated underachievers, it doesn't matter that they're talking about ideas or books as opposed to whether Goku could beat Superman 1v1

[Anonymous No.15247575]

>>15247532
Witness the left, frozen in time, cramming all things into its calcified categories of thought, unable to assimilate reality as it passes them by.

[Anonymous No.15247586]

>>15247532
They're not anything at the moment. Mostly larping edgelords.

[Anonymous No.15247606]

>>15246555
The Chinese are all about quality of life and higher GDP (at the cost of political liberty) though.

[Anonymous No.15247622]

>>15247532
>so they're fascists
Leftism has no future besides being the CIA's psyop lapdog at this point

[Anonymous No.15247634]

>>15247574
>Chapo
My first instinct is that you're faggot for sneaking this one in there, but I'll try to be open minded: why do they belong on this list?

[Anonymous No.15247640]

>>15247634
it's a list of ecelebs, how is that not obvious

[Anonymous No.15247647]

>>15247622
>>15246637
>>15247202
>>15243658
>>15242096
>CIA
Do retards actually believe this shit? Do your seriously believe that the CIA is spending its time funding trannies and tankies to own the wignats?
>inb4 'lol nice try cia/fbi/nba'
Provide an ounce of evidence for your claims.

[Anonymous No.15247649]

>>15247622
It must be so disorienting occupying a reality where it’s always either 1939 or 1968, but that’s the reality today’s left inhabits.

[Anonymous No.15247652]

>>15247532
Why do you feel the need to label people with that word?

[Anonymous No.15247657]

>>15247634
They're all on the same level of faggotry, I don't see how they're any different.

[Anonymous No.15247662]

>>15247489
I was referring to the unironic fascists ITT who are trying to co-op this new post-wokeness realization as a step into red-brown alliance, not the ironic radical-twitter people that the OP mentions

[Anonymous No.15247664]

>>15247647
>Provide an ounce of evidence for your claims.
Here's a handful: >>15246874

[Anonymous No.15247673]

>>15247634
They're memes and nothing more, much like everyone else on there. Out of everyone on that list, only Fisher and Taleb should be taken seriously.

[Anonymous No.15247678]

>>15247662
>post-wokeness
>new

[Anonymous No.15247685]

>>15247652
If it looks like a duck and talks like a duck then yadda yadda yadda

[Anonymous No.15247693]

>>15247664
So you've got nothing but an awkward grifter acting awkwardly.

[Anonymous No.15247694]

>>15247678
New in the left, I should've added. It started with Fisher, Nagle, /leftypol/ and nowadays continues with the ironic twitter personalities of the post-woke radical twittersphere

[Anonymous No.15247701]

>>15247381
>Watch him, he's harmless.
But I don't understand him and it's making me uncomfortable. On one hand he's on board with the decline of the West, he purports himself to be a Christian, he interviews people on the right but you call him a liberal? I don't get it

[Anonymous No.15247707]

>>15247694
how is it post woke if you agree with the wokies on everything including le ebil fashies

[Anonymous No.15247710]

>>15247685
People misattribute that word all the time. Anything that isn't in complete favor of the order that many on the have been indoctrinated to believe is labeled as such, which is retarded. See >>15246537 The left has been co-opted by the very forces they claim to detest.

[Anonymous No.15247715]

>>15247694
>post-woke radical twittersphere
Can you please stop saying this like it's an actual fucking thing.

[Anonymous No.15247717]

>>15247707
You don't understand what wokeness is then. Read Fisher. It's the vampire castle.

[Anonymous No.15247719]

>>15246825
You fagscists have such a pompous and smug way of wording your posts that it always cracks me up, there is always some xXesotericXx shit going on, muh logos, muh transcendental.

[Anonymous No.15247720]

>>15247673
Moldbug has some good takes, even if all the solutions to the problems he describes is just crypto-libertarianism.

[Anonymous No.15247721]

>>15247693
Who the fuck asks another person if they're "racist" in a conversation like that? Why would he ask that?

[Anonymous No.15247726]

>>15247715
Would you prefer the mainstream media to create the term for us? C'mon, we have to appropriate the term before anyone else.

[Anonymous No.15247744]

>>15247720
I thought he was a techno-medievalist, an anti-liberal, I haven't read much of him

[Anonymous No.15247749]

>>15247719
(You)

[Anonymous No.15247771]

>>15247721
An autistic person. And anyway, it's a fair question, given nobody knows what kantbot's actual position on anything is. Might as well be blunt about it.

[Anonymous No.15247787]

>>15247720
It takes a stunning amount of cogdis to base your entire political theory on 'lol libertarianism can never work let's go back to kings' and then reinsert libertarian principles on the metalevel of individual states competing for citizens in some global system totally lacking any central authorities.

[Anonymous No.15247805]

>>15247771
>kantbot's actual position on anything is.
Well, this is my problem. I'm a Right-Winger, and I just recently got familiarized with the names mentioned ITT. I'm not sure what they are, some say crypto-fascists, others say anti-capitalist, anti-fascists etc

[Anonymous No.15247807]

>>15247726
There is no "post woke radical" movement. The term is bullshit. The idea that there is a movement in the first place is bullshit. Anons seeing patterns that don't exist.

[Anonymous No.15247828]

>>15247805
They're just twitter trolls. All one can say about them is they hate the status quo and normies. Kantbot in particular hates academia possibly because he couldn't get on a phd program. Beyond the resentment and the irony, there's not really a lot there.

[Anonymous No.15247835]

>>15247807
>no fun allowed

[Anonymous No.15247861]

>>15247828
Thank you for being blunt, I will go back to living as these spergs do not exists

[Anonymous No.15247863]

>>15247835
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought these past 4 threads were supposed to be about the next big cultural movement that was totally gonna own the libs when the zoomers came of age but now it turns out it's just a larp for the lulz instead. Good to know.

[Anonymous No.15247874]

>>15247863
I'd say it's both of those things

[Anonymous No.15247891]

>>15246874
This sounds like Kantbot is hitting the random page on wikipedia and then reading a sentence, waiting for Justin to respond, and then saying "no actually I believe the opposite of your reasonable and expected interpretation" name drops a philosopher and then hitting random wiki and reading another sentence just to confuse him.

And Justin just takes him seriously for 2 hours straight.

[Anonymous No.15247910]

Do you guys think this documentary will launch the post-woke radical movement into more mainstream audiences?

[Anonymous No.15247915]

>>15247910
Link to the documentary? I found it on YT the other day, but I think it's been removed

[Anonymous No.15247921]

>>15247915
rarbg dot com probably has a torrent

[Anonymous No.15247929]

>>15247891
The arguments he makes on twitter are more erudite versions of /lit/ shitposting. Like "you clearly don't understand [insert German Idealist here] like I do, read more" tier whenever he's mildly challenged on one of his hot takes.

[Anonymous No.15247939]

>>15247929
I've never seen anyone on twitter who doesn't operate that way. I mean you couldnt even write a long response if you wanted to, the site literally makes it impossible. The entire point is to just post your witty little sentence and that's it.

[Anonymous No.15247943]

>>15247910
No. It's poorly made and no normie is going to listen to kantbot's inane lightly whispered mutterings or see his flabby poorly postured body and think "wow I want to be where that guy's at." It will be forgotten in another week.

[Anonymous No.15247955]

>>15247939
The Medium is the Message.

[Anonymous No.15248070]

Our /basedboy/ Mike Crumplar throwing terms like "frogtwitter" on mainstream media like it's nothing

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/born-to-feel-on-tfw-no-gf

>The five that Moyer follows are associated with the 4chan message board and “Frogtwitter,” an avant-garde faction with eclectic and esoteric interests that takes its name from the famous Pepe the Frog meme. Their intellectual leader, known as Kantbot, preaches a fanciful adaptation of German idealist philosophy (think G.W.F. Hegel and Friedrich Schelling) to an audience of disaffected young men.

[Anonymous No.15248084]

>>15248070
>Their intellectual leader, known as Kantbot,
frogtwitter will literally never recover

[Anonymous No.15248146]

>>15248070
>Other than Kantbot, whose lofty ambitions and internet clout ground the film’s depiction of the group as an intellectual avant-garde, it’s not exactly clear why some subjects are chosen instead of others. Why not investigate Logo Daedalus, Kantbot’s accomplice in the viral “Trump Will Complete the System of German Idealism” video, who is still going strong with over 13,000 Twitter followers and a self-published novel? Or the mysterious Bronze Age Pervert?
>It seems the film can’t decide whether its subjects are losers to be pitied or artists to be appreciated. At the end, Kantbot is asked a question that the viewer doesn’t hear but must have been something along the lines of: “For these people, what now?” He responds, “What do you want me to say? You are basically asking me the meaning of life. The answer to the incel is for them to live their lives, to produce art, to create meaning.” Fair enough. But we never really know whether to trust Kantbot in the first place — is he the delusional captain of a ship of fools, or is he really on to something? It’s not something the filmmaker should tell the viewer outright, but Moyer doesn’t seem to commit to an answer at all.
Both good points imho.

[Anonymous No.15248198]

>>15248146
lmao @ Logo seething

[Anonymous No.15248253]

>>15241256
Looks cool, just ordered. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.15248464]

Chapocels and lefties trying to be edgy and once again getting embarrassed. Imagine my shock. When are you guys going to learn that unless you actually abandon leftism and liberalism and all it entails you will never be cool.

[Anonymous No.15248484]

>>15248198
>the beauty and complexity of my autistic internet history
is this nigger serious

[Anonymous No.15248495]

>>15248070
>>15248146
>>15248198
Crumplar is so based. His ability to rile up the twittertards is second to none. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a fed sent in to undermine them from the inside.

[Anonymous No.15248515]

>>15248464
>leftism can't be edgy
what about nazbol gang?

[Anonymous No.15248523]

>>15248464
nothing is edgy anymore

[Anonymous No.15248556]

>>15248515
Its basically just pseudo nationalism but only for our super lefty country and not yours. Seems the left got more of what they wanted than the right did in that situation. And what really is considered right wing in nazbol society? Idk

[Anonymous No.15248566]

>>15248464
Edge died in the towers

[Anonymous No.15248574]

>>15248556
>And what really is considered right wing in nazbol society?
captialist jews of course

[Anonymous No.15248601]

>>15248464
You can't be edgy by essentially advocating for Victorian morality but centered around race etc instead of sexual norms. Victorianism is literally the least edgy thing there is.

[Anonymous No.15248632]

>>15247574
Projection, cope and seethe all in one post

[Anonymous No.15248662]

>>15241625
You're right on the dissident-right willingness to ally with the left. Richard Spencer talked about how he would be all for this, and even compromise on issues but he didn't believe it would ever happen on the condition that the woke left wouldn't ever drop the "woke" stuff

[Anonymous No.15248667]

>>15248662
I am like 80% sure RS glows

[Anonymous No.15248685]

I’m thinking the influence of 4chan, twitter, Angela nagle, chapo, cumtown etc etc. Is extremely exaggerated and you’re all being schizo as fuck. All these things are adjacent but people do not give a fuck.

Normies run the world, not some obscure American internet culture. interesting as it is for internet nerds to navel gaze at their cultural history, these memes and these cultural movements just don’t matter. That’s what I believe anyway

[Anonymous No.15248707]

>>15248685
there was a brief moment there when Bannon was in the whitehouse and namedropping Moldbug that you could have been forgiven for thinking this stuff actually mattered, but in retrospect it was memes and reddit, in fact Im sure there are Moldbug subreddits

[Anonymous No.15248731]

>>15248667
I'm 20% he glows. He has skin in the game, he has been on the front lines. I have yet to see any evidence that he's fed, other than "he's rich" or "he's a trust fund with connections"

The leaked audio made me like him even more, it was assuring

[Anonymous No.15248748]

>>15248685
imho post-2016 you can't deny that fringe internet culture and communities have the potential for producing actual significant repercussions irl

[Anonymous No.15248751]

>Chapo Trap House
jew
>Cum Town
jew
>Red Scare
jew
>TrueAnon
jew
>Kantbot
jew
>Moldbug
jew

[Anonymous No.15248761]

>>15248731
Hitler started out as a fed... in reality people should be hoping the feds are reading them. The feds are mostly women and AA hires nowadays but the Mormons might have some potential.

[Anonymous No.15248767]

>>15248751
With Jews, you lose

[Anonymous No.15248776]

>>15248761
>Hitler started out as a fed
Good point

[Anonymous No.15248855]

>>15248748
>/pol/ won Trump the election

[Anonymous No.15248916]

Well this thread went to shit.

[Anonymous No.15248948]

>>15248916
was it not shit at a certain point? I think I missed it

[Anonymous No.15248981]

>>15248916
Stop trying to make it happen. It's not going to happen.

[Anonymous No.15249061]

It comes out of a variety of things that are too many to go into fully:
>Double failure of Bernie Sanders
>21st century comprising of continual crisis
>The spectre of Seattle 99
>Having grown up in a world without the Soviet Union
>The popularity of Mark Fisher
>The eclecticism of internet culture breaking ideological priming >The failure of Neoliberalism
>The rapid ascent of alt-right ideology
>Zizek's "First as Tragedy, Second as Farce"
>The inability to imagine bringing about communism
>A hyper-ironic world
>A lag in our collective metaphysical understanding of the world today
>Rampant nostalgia

[Anonymous No.15249083]

>>15248707
>Moldbug
I've honestly been living under a rock but can you give me a quick rundown on who this dude is and what does he support?
Judging from his website and the first few pages of the letter he wrote agaisnt progressives it just seems like dude epic nietzschean type dude.

[Anonymous No.15249103]

>>15249061
Increasingly coming to think that a lot of the weirdness we see in the Western world is due to being cucked out of Communism. The whole intellectual tradition for the past ~200 years or so was all leading up to Communism and then... nope. On another timeline we might've had Communism, it would collapse, and then we'd be on to something new and different.

[Anonymous No.15249114]

>>15249103
Derrida strikes again.

[Anonymous No.15249130]

>>15249114
I'm not familiar with anything Derrida wrote, what do you mean by this?

[Anonymous No.15249147]

>>15249103
This is all down to Lenin and his band of retards jumping too early. If he'd waited until it had happened in Germany first, we'd be living in a very different and possibly less depraved world.

[Anonymous No.15249170]

>>15249130
Spectres of Marx is all about how Communism will continue to haunt Western society after the collapse of the Soviet Union as an ontological alternative that neither is nor can any longer be.

>>15249147
You can't really blame Lenin for the failure of Luxembourg given that he died in '24.

[Anonymous No.15249180]

>>15249147
Oh, I'm right-wing personally, I just feel like everything was leading up to Communism, if we're being realistic. I think there would've been sufficient disillusionment to clear the way for something new. I'm not sure the extent to which this is true in former Soviet Union countries though due to Western influence.

[Anonymous No.15249249]

>>15249170
>You can't really blame Lenin for the failure of Luxembourg given that he died in '24.
I don't. I do blame him for trying to force communism on a country that was completely ill-suited to it at it's current stage of development. The revolution had to happen in a fully industrial country in order to be in any way viable.
Also, the SPD may have not acted in the brutal and calculated way that it did had the Bolsheviks had not made such a public mess of everything but a year before in Russia.

[Anonymous No.15249257]

>>15249083
he wants a society run by corporation lego blocks, but only air traffic controllers are in charge.
not even memeing.

[Anonymous No.15249258]

>>15249083
Moldbug is a blogger who was active from 2007-2014 on Unqualified Reservations. He is credited with starting the 'neoreactionary' 'movement', which was a loose constellation of other bloggers, notably Nick Land, Spandrell, Handle, Foseti. The basic gist of these guys was, as the name suggests, a return to reactionary politics, ie. forms similar to traditional monarchy, but with a contemporary twist. Moldbug's most famous contribution is probably the concept of the Cathedral, which is the informal government actually in power, consisting of academia, the press, the civil service, and the NGO type organizations. Taking the concept of memeplexes, that is applying natural selection to human culture/society, he identified Progressivism as the dominant memeplex of our civilization, and the Cathedral as its structure of power and dissemination, noting that in the long run 'whatever Harvard believes tends to end up as mainstream dogma'. He then made up a lot of ludicrous ideas about how to fix things that nobody really took seriously, but that all vaguely resembled some kind of CEO King. The neoreactionaries in general didnt agree with each other, the scene quickly fell into navel-gazing and was coopted by entryist retards, by 2014 it was basically dead. But their ideas, in diluted forms, have filtered out into the broader altright, or dissident right or whatever areas of the internet, and had some impact. Moldbug attracted the attention of Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel, who is an adjacent post-libertarian anti-democracy type, and Steve Bannon, who runs Breitbart and was in Trump's whitehouse before the two fell out.

Moldbug recently started writing again under his real name Curtis Yarvin, and he seems to have dialed back his more extreme stuff, but it's generally the same set of reactionary principles sprinkled with the Darwinist stuff about memetic evolution. So to sum up Moldbug is a far right political theorist, he wants clear and strict authoritarian structures to promote peace and thereby prosperity, he has libertarian background in economics, and he approaches sociology from the darwinian memeplex perspective. They all seem to like Singapore if that gives you an indication.

[Anonymous No.15249280]

>>15249147
>>15249249
I actually don't think it'd be that different aside from being less weird, but poorer. I mean, you'd basically have Eurocommunism, humanism etc. instead of Soviet Socialism. Even if the whole world went Communist, as we've seen, it doesn't alter certain aspects of the nations' character - Russia basically adopted Red Czarism, China basically has a Red Dynasty, etc., you would still have identity politics coming out of the USSA because of developments on the Black issue.

[Anonymous No.15249294]

>>15249083
He's a pseud who cries more often than memerson
https://youtu.be/RRQO3VbJsMw?t=1275

[Anonymous No.15249342]

>>15249249
At the same time, revolutions have so far only been successful if even attempted in places (according to DiaMat) that materially aren't ready for them. China, Cuba, Russia, Vietnam.

[Anonymous No.15249423]

>>15247647
I don't believe it, my personal point is that if it were true it would be a sign they're not as good as people think they are. CIA is very overrated as an intelligence agency.

[Anonymous No.15249424]

>>15249342
All of which followed a Leninist template, ending up in totalitarian rule (with the exception of Vietnam, I don't know much about their brand of communism). It may be the case that by the time industrialization has reached the point where a successful Marxist revolution is feasible, the proles have become too comfortable to do anything about it. Perhaps only profound suffering can engender struggle and we in the west lack the required amount of former and the taste for the latter.

[Anonymous No.15249443]

>>15249342
There was absolutely a successful, Marxist revolution across the whole West in 1968.
https://churchlifejournal.nd.edu/articles/marxism-died-in-the-east-because-it-realized-itself-in-the-west/

[Anonymous No.15249470]

>>15249424
But again, all of these projects were variously successful, Cuba and Vietnam especially. The question is why has only Leninism resulted in revolution, and why only pre-capitalist countries has revolution been successful?
I don't know the answer. I don't know if anyone does, frankly.

>>15249443
I'll read this later, but 1968 was not successful in the least. The failure of 68 arguably haunts Western Marxists more than the Soviet collapse.

[Anonymous No.15249488]

>>15249470
You should read the article at your nearest convenience. Del Noce is Marx’s most lethal critic, and incidentally btfo’s /pol/ in this article, as well.

[Anonymous No.15249492]

Okay i thought about it. Post woke will happen because the president will be a rapist no matter who wins.
If biden wins it will make the democrats have to defend him

[Anonymous No.15249506]

>>15249443
It didn't though. There was no Party to take ownership of all property, money still exists, division of labor still exists, production is still carried out for profit instead of according to a Party plan, etc. A lot of the key thinkers of the various 1968 quasi-revolutions really weren't Marxist, as in, they fundamentally didn't subscribe to historical materialism or class struggle or abolishing all private ownership. It was really closer to moralism than to a real change in the order of things (like most Western Marxism is), moralism which is largely a degenerated form of Christianity in the first place. Also, I take issue with Del Noce's claim that we live in a secular state. The former USSR countries are a secular states. Most of Asia is secular. The current West is NOT secular, by any means. If anything we practice such a radically degenerate form of Christianity that we attack Christianity itself for not being Christian enough, where we essentially interpret Christianity to be left-wing emancipatory/egalitarian politics.

[Anonymous No.15249550]

>>15249061
You missed

>Joker (2019)

[Anonymous No.15249555]

>>15249470
>But again, all of these projects were variously successful, Cuba and Vietnam especially.
Successful on their own terms defintely but not successful on Marx's terms or the terms of his western followers.
>Leninism resulted in revolution, and why only pre-capitalist countries has revolution been successful?
Because Lenin showed a way how to do it and everyone else merely followed suit. No-one has managed to work out how to do it otherwise. Perhaps there is no other way. In terms of why pre-capitalist, I think that partially goes back to what I said about suffering. Once you allow full industrialization to take place, things get too comfortable.
Also, if you look at those countries they were all subject to oppressive state power before the revolution began. It's easier to start a revolution against a king (Russia) or a military dictatorship (China and Cuba) or an imperial power (Vietnam) than it is against democracy and capital - the enemy is clearer and more centralized.

[Anonymous No.15249596]

>>15249555
Actually-existing socialism in many ways resembles feudalism with technology, and capitalism is comparatively older in Europe than elsewhere - it's actually completely predictable that Europe wouldn't easily adopt full-on socialism, whereas in Russia or Asia where kinship networks are stronger and quasi-feudal production still existed, there's less of a leap to producing things for your local Party manager.

[Anonymous No.15249631]

>>15249596
I think this idea can also explain, contrary to some narratives, why the Protestant world, especially the UK and US, were the places where the Communist movement gained the least amount of traction. Serfdom lasted longer and the Party could more easily fill a role previously played by the Church, which is why it caught on more in countries that were Catholic or Orthodox. Even in Germany, socialist uprisings were largely in the Catholic part, weren't they? And France was one of the hotbeds of Communism for a long time.

[Anonymous No.15249633]

>>15249506
Marxists must eventually take stock of why all of their actions have led not from capitalism to communism, but from capitalism to even-more-rapacious-bourgeois-capitalism, in the East and West alike.
I also think you have a confused notion of secularity, and I think you’ll struggle to find a version that fits the FSRs and Asian states (all of which are massively ideological) but not the West without gerrymandering around Christianity.

[Anonymous No.15249684]

>>15249633
I guess I'm thinking that the West has so many pietes regarding egalitarianism nowadays that it appears to me to have taken on the form of a religious belief more or less, whereas in much of E. Europe, E. Asia (except China or the DPRK which are still theoretically Communist) one doesn't really get the feeling that some analogous belief system exists.

[Anonymous No.15249705]

>>15249555
>not successful on Marx's terms or the terms of his western followers.
That's not necessarily true. Cuba is pretty well defended and applauded on the left. And if you consider simply bringing people out of feudalism and poverty an accomplishment, which Marx most certainly did, all of these regimes had their successes. What Marx did not think in is black and white.

>Perhaps there is no other way.
I wonder this as well. Though it also seems like Luxembourg did not leave much of a legacy.

[Anonymous No.15249745]

>>15249596
>>15249631
Interesting points. Leninism as an ultimately reactionary movement.

[Anonymous No.15249775]

>>15249745
Another related point is that the Church broke up kinship networks through marriage laws, ironically creating the conditions for the much-derided "individualism" in the first place. This was most pronounced in England where free nuclear families were common as early as the 1300s, iirc. But I don't think it would be accurate to characterize Marxism-Leninism as totally reactionary. I think that Marxism proper, in theory, is an attempt to recapture elements of what was lost in the transition away from feudalism without abolishing technology. Within this framework Marxism-Leninism is just Marxism with Russian characteristics. Similarly in Europe you get Eurocommunism which is closer to just being moralism with some welfare state practices, and in the US which never had serfdom (except for the blacks), you have pure moralism. No one is trying to get back to anything resembling pre-capitalist relations in the US.

[Anonymous No.15249781]

>>15249775
Meant to write
>Marxism as it actually exists
not
>Marxism proper in theory
Obviously in theory you're supposed to have communal ownership of everything but we all know how it actually goes...

[Anonymous No.15249839]

>>15249705
>Cuba is pretty well defended and applauded on the left
It's a pretty mealy mouthed applause. Apologizing for totalitarian regimes is kind of what Marxists do by default as a gesture of solidarity but, bar the odd tankie, there's not many that would wish it for themselves. As far as Marx goes, I can't see Leninism as anything other than a perversion of Marx's ideas for revolution.

[Anonymous No.15250684]

new thread?

[Anonymous No.15250812]

>>15241323
youre more of a fucking chapohead than me if u like mike ma faggot

[Anonymous No.15250836]

>>15250684
Alright, I hope this effortposting pays off some day

NEW THREAD
>>15250832
>>15250832
>>15250832
>>15250832

[Anonymous No.15250889]

>>15241274
About to sleep but have also read this and will post excerpts when I wake up

Mike Man is incredibly based

[Anonymous No.15251122]

>>15241206
I don't actually think it has to do with his guests, not that he's good. I think the reason he is (very) mildly popular on YouTube is because he has some sort of connection to important/influential people independent of his YouTube career. Specifically, he mentioned knowing Moldbug years ago prior to being on YouTube. Given his demeanor, I think he probably grew up in a very wealthy family. It's also possible that he actually is connected to intelligence agencies, as people have suggested.