/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15205602]

Are there any books that talk about why modern Western men are so effeminate these days? Something that deals with how traditional male roles have shifted and the reasons behind the change. This is not a bait post, I truly want to understand what happened and why. Discussion about the related topic is fine ITT but I'm mainly looking for book reccs. I'm OK with religious material from any faith as well as political books that deal with the reasons behind feminzation of Western men.

[Anonymous No.15205619]

There is no actual book because western men have not been feminised, aside from a small group of lower middle class young men who are culturally excluded from both poor and rich mens sports. You only feel western men have been feminised because you are a part of this group.

[Anonymous No.15205621]

>>15205602
>Discussion about the related topic
No it isn’t, this is a literature board, the discussion should be almost exclusively on related literature, but you just want this to be your new hangout board because you heard it was the intellectual board. Modern men are effeminate because society is too praising of superficial aspects of femininity as part of the negative effects of trying to make people with different functions do the same roles in a society. /thread

[Anonymous No.15205645]

>>15205602
i want to bully someone like this

[Anonymous No.15205668]

>>15205619
>lower middle class
You mean upper middle class? Other than that, I agree. Most of us are either fat slobs or normal-looking guys.

[Anonymous No.15205708]

>>15205668
Maybe middle middle class is a better term though it just sounds stupid to say. Upper middle class play rugby or whatever. To be honest it's mostly just a cultural class of people whose parents never taught them that it's abnormal to play videogames all day past age fifteen. Somehow they think average intelligence redeems them from being a slob.

[Anonymous No.15205710]

post body OP. let's see how masculine you are

[Anonymous No.15205711]

>>15205708
Either way we need to stop replying to this thread its fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.15205756]

bet both give good head

[Anonymous No.15205838]

Harassment Architecture, The Way of Men, Iron John

[Anonymous No.15205844]

i find that the most effeminate men are the ones who are always whining about other mens lack of masculinity

[Anonymous No.15205847]

>>15205602
What the fuck are those faggot slippers.

[Anonymous No.15205853]

>>15205847
They don't look that bad. He should wear socks with them though.

[Anonymous No.15205864]

>>15205602
>VVhy, yes, mye fellovve man, I uerily do belieuee that traditione shalle be vpheld and the spirit of man shalle euermore ouercome the effeminate natvre of the lessere religiounes.

[Anonymous No.15205868]

>>15205853
>socks and loafers

t. socks and sandals wearer

[Anonymous No.15205873]

>>15205864
would pump and dump, something about those heels turns me on

[Anonymous No.15205885]

>>15205602
The only books on this subject are pop-science self-help books (like Jordan Peterson) that have absolutely no historical backing. If you really think there is some way to quantify gender historically, you're totally deluded.

Every social epoch completely rewrites what "masculine" and "feminine" mean, according to the material necessities of the time.

[Anonymous No.15205886]

>>15205853
They're leprechaun shoes

[Anonymous No.15205887]

You don't even need a book for this, a meme will do just fine.

[Anonymous No.15205891]

>>15205602
post a picture of yourself, i fucking dare you

[Anonymous No.15205894]

>>15205885
Those men could duel and fight at least.

[Anonymous No.15205896]

When have they ever not been effeminate

[Anonymous No.15205897]

>>15205887
All Americans are weak though

[Anonymous No.15205899]

this thread sure attracted a lot of faggots stumbling over themselves to be contrarian and socially shame the OP, ironically just like effeminate women

must be the "dirtbag left" here to save the day with womanish snark. die of aids, fags.

[Anonymous No.15205902]

>>15205899
Wow what a masculine post. I wish I could be like this

[Anonymous No.15205905]

>>15205899

>>15205891

[Anonymous No.15205910]

>>15205902
>>15205905
>womanish snark

you showed me, you couple of queers. which one's the top?

[Anonymous No.15205912]

>>15205899
I dont think it's a contrarian opinion to point out that these guys look a bit unfortunate, come on now

[Anonymous No.15205913]

>>15205894
totally missing the point

[Anonymous No.15205931]

Ok but what is objectively wrong with being "masculine". Is my life going to get better if I grow a beard and smash things when I get angry

[Anonymous No.15205940]

>>15205931
being "feminine"^

[Anonymous No.15205946]

>>15205602
Depends what you mean by effeminate, the stereotypical millenial lifts and probably has at least heard of PUA terminology. So it's more gay/narcissistic sex seeker than effeminate.

[Anonymous No.15205945]

>>15205896
unironically wish renaissance and medieval men's fashion made a comeback.

men's fashion post-Victorian is boring, basic garbage.

[Anonymous No.15205953]

>>15205887
imagine believing this is true

[Anonymous No.15205964]

>>15205931
Theres nothing wrong with being a feminine man, I've met plenty of strong willed effeminate men, I think it's more accurate to say that men are becoming more weak willed in general

[Anonymous No.15205968]

>>15205912
the only people i meant by contrarian are the ones coming in to go "ummm it's just xyz sweaty??" you can tell the real reason they're posting their contrarianism is that their feminized unconscious mind has detected op as a "right-winger," because only evil internet right-wingers could possibly care about men spiritually deliquescing into metrosexuals and trannies.

you can also tell how feminized they are by how they resort to social shaming and passive aggression any time someone displeases them.

case in point:
>>15205902
>>15205931
these are probably the same newfag phoneposter. look at how they go from social shaming based on virility ("wowww bet ur so masculine") to effeminate, "can't we all just get along?" pseudo-ethics typical of women, with no conceptual content, just appeals to emotion and to preserving group harmony

the "post ur bod ;)" guy is just a pathetic faggot though.

>>15205953
another good example. no content, no joke, no banter. just upset at the image itself, so immediately resorts to a vacuous, contentless post that amounts to saying "ummm lol wowwww" or "k". this is the your girlfriend texting you "k" of 4chan posts. if it's not a roastie tourist, it's a feminized queer.

ask me anything, i am an expert on detecting roasties and queers.

[Anonymous No.15205972]

>>15205931
weak men create hard times

[Anonymous No.15205978]

>>15205968
Why is it important for men to be masculine?

[Anonymous No.15205992]

>>15205602
technology
feminine economy
pacifist
passive
urban
shit food
laws of equality
matriarchal
glownig leftism
standardisation of identity combined with material individualism
paradoxically an empathy-based society amidst extreme competition
glorification of youth
lack of rites of passage and neotenic lifestyles
the alternative masculinity lacking in essence
the end of character shifts identity to surface qualities of sex and appearances
medicalised being

Those are most of the causes I could think of.

[Anonymous No.15206003]

>>15205968
ahah u mad tho

seems like u cant handle the bant m8 lmao

[Anonymous No.15206004]

>>15205885
Fashion has changed yet some how men are 99.99% of the time the one's that have the penises and become fathers and warriors and the women are the ones with the vaginas and become mothers. Also these were all rich men and just like today the wealthiest tended to be the most groomed and fashionable, most men did not dress like this and it wasn't seen as a masculine way to dress by most.

[Anonymous No.15206006]

>>15206003
hahaha you don't fit in, enjoy your brief stay here. remember to tweet in lowercase about how you hate it afterwards, as always.

[Anonymous No.15206012]

Porn, video games, and technology in general, in that order. I recommend you read the Bible. Almost all of the right-wing memes posted on this board also apply, regardless of their differences (Ellul, Evola, Guenon, Kaczynski, Kierkegaard, etc)

[Anonymous No.15206015]

>>15205978
Cultures and the children of those cultures don't survive without masculine men.

[Anonymous No.15206018]

>>15205978
He's probably schizoing that the opposition is masculine ala Muslims and it's going to destroy white society if there are no strong men to defend it.

Therefore nature is taking it's course and it's autocorrecting itself and culling the weak to the masculine. Also Islam is the truth.

[Anonymous No.15206017]

>>15206004
It was something poor people aspired to. The average butcher or soldier would have given anything to dress like that and be seen as a rich, elegant person.

[Anonymous No.15206021]

>>15205931
>grow a beard and smash things when I get angry
Your idea of masculinity is ridiculously inaccurate. No wonder why you think that being feminine is ok.

[Anonymous No.15206026]

If you go out in public you notice a lot of these people but that doesn't mean there still isn't a ton of masculine dudes. If youve ever worked any type of job with a lot of men you'd notice there are just as much "manly men" as always. If you are going to judge the population just by twitter posts youve seen on 4chan you are viewing things from a cognitive bias

[Anonymous No.15206032]

>>15206021
Define masculinity for us so we are on the same page.

[Anonymous No.15206047]

>>15206032
kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.15206055]

>>15206047
Going to take that as admitting defeat. Feminine men win again

[Anonymous No.15206057]

>>15206017
I am unsure of that. I think there may even be many people here that wouldn't trade their lives to be some vapid fashionable person that wears Yeezys. That may be optimism though. Do you a response to the other two things I mentioned?

[Anonymous No.15206061]

>>15206004
this doesn't even address the point of the post

if "having a penis" was the same thing as "being masculine" we wouldn't even be having this conversation, you understand? masculinity is a historically defined concept and there are actually thousands of examples that prove this fact if you do basic research

[Anonymous No.15206066]

>>15205602
Please go home, /pol/.

[Anonymous No.15206090]

This is the Capitol Hill “Dick’s Burgers” in Seattle.

This neighborhood is known for some of the most annoying effeminate psychos and sexually confused incels-turned-non-binary.

[Anonymous No.15206095]

>>15206061
If you pick a random book written by people from thousands years ago up until now from any culture 99.99% of them will have masculine associations such as muscle mass, deeper voices and role of being a soldier. Even the ones that touch of cross-dressing and stuff will be addressing such people as outliers. This is like arguing that the sky is not actually blue because thousands of people out of billions may have been colorblind or had combined blue and green in their language.

[Anonymous No.15206100]

>>15205602
the short answer, is we are in an identity crisis in the West right now. spiritual crisis, mental health crisis, doesn’t matter how you put it. Along with this identity crisis is the confusion of what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman. There are a lot of different interpretations as you can see and no unified answer, and a lot of weird stuff like the surge of transexuals.

Essentially in Biblical terms, we are in a period of great distance from God right now. Suicide, violent crime, school shootings are all going to go up until there is a rebound, and that rebound can only be brought about by us individually finding our genuine identity, that is free from ideological possessions religious, political or otherwise.

[Anonymous No.15206106]

>>15205602
I wouldn't call these people feminine because that implies they have some sort of sexuality about them. The twink in my picture is feminine, but has a high energy, life affirming sexual energy. The people in the OP are practically genderless slugs, unhealthy castratos, I wouldn't call them feminine. Femininity in men isn't bad

[Anonymous No.15206120]

>>15206032
Masculinity isn't about being a chimp. Masculinity is an archetypical concept that is formed by traits such as: control of one's emotions, physicality, courage, leadership, dependability, and others. You could think of masculinity as the very traits that make a man virtuous. Savagery is not masculinity, though.

[Anonymous No.15206136]

>>15206120
Could these things not be associated with being femenine as well?

[Anonymous No.15206165]

>>15206136
No.

[Anonymous No.15206174]

>>15206120
You realize defining what it means to be masculine will guarantee that you will never become those things right? A ‘virtuous man’ as you say doesn’t live in the world of abstractions, they don’t write down what it means to be ‘masculine’ and they can’t be defined by your cultural understanding.

[Anonymous No.15206179]

>>15206174
This. Masculinity is something that can't be defined but when you see it you know it.

[Anonymous No.15206185]

>>15205602
Testosterone levels are down a lot. I don't think anyone knows why. Probably has to do with something in the water really.

[Anonymous No.15206187]

>>15206179
spoken like a retarded simp. words be hard wardine.

[Anonymous No.15206192]

>>15206187
feminine hands typed this post

[Anonymous No.15206195]

>>15206136
Masculinity is force, femininity is sensitivity. You need to balance both to be a complete person or you will be fucked up. Eastern religion discovered this a long time ago but it’s been buried by thousands of years of dog-shit.

[Anonymous No.15206206]

>>15206185
Isn't it possible that not living in constant danger of being attacked and needing to kill to survive/eat could result in this? Has anyone done any studies on whether or not this phenomenon is real in high crime neighborhoods?

[Anonymous No.15206210]

>>15206179
>>15206174
This is why philosophy and literature is fundamentally a feminine activity. Sports on the other hand is the complete opposite of abstract

[Anonymous No.15206219]

>>15206206
I don't think it is, I don't think test levels are that high in black areas in the US or areas with heavy cartel violence in Mexico which have pretty high violence levels. Also the decline has been rapid over just a few generations, as far as I know, as opposed to a long decline from hunter-gatherer existence.

[Anonymous No.15206227]

>>15206185
Here is a source on levels dropping over time.

[Anonymous No.15206228]

>>15206219
Are there any candidates for what could be causing this? Obviously lots of chemicals to choose from.
girls going through puberty earlier is a similar issue.

[Anonymous No.15206232]

>>15206228
I suspect microplastics and hormonal contraceptives in the water.

[Anonymous No.15206235]

>>15206210
Yeah and wisdom is feminine too. Why don’t you pick up some heavy logs and put them back down so you can be so masculine? Btw I wasn’t able to attract women when I was this dumb. That’s like some TRP tier masculinity

[Anonymous No.15206239]

>>15206232
Are you a neo-luddite? Im a fan of ted myself but im not sure i would want to live if in the hyper-violent world of hunter gatherers or feudalism, would probably get tortured for being a necromancer.

[Anonymous No.15206244]

some of them are coming out of corona as real niggas

[Anonymous No.15206250]

>>15206227
>>15206232
I’m pretty convinced this is just a symptom of depression unless you guys have direct evidence to the contrary.

[Anonymous No.15206253]

>>15206174
>You realize defining what it means to be masculine will guarantee that you will never become those things right?
Absolute nonsense.

[Anonymous No.15206256]

>>15206239
No. I just think we need to ban hormonal contraceptives. Aside from the issues in this thread, we're really running out of people too quickly. It's dumb, everyone's realized that population is power at this point but no one is willing to undertake the obvious measures to increase birth rates - but immigration is okay.

>No you did a misogyny my guy! You did a heckin' Lebensborn my dude! It's just like in The Handmaid's Tale!

>>15206250
Disagree, did everyone just start getting depressed in 1972?

[Anonymous No.15206258]

>>15206250
But what's causing the increased depression?

[Anonymous No.15206266]

>>15206136
No. Not that women could not have these traits, but they're not judged upon lack of them. It's not bad, for example, for a woman to lack nerve in a situation of heavy stress. That's not true for men, however.
>>15206174
I'm not stablishing rules to be followed, though. My definition is descriptive of a general archetype that will still exist, whether we describe it or not. Even if we erased all the records of what it means to be masculine or not, people would intuitively be able to notice masculinity (or the lack of it) even without having a solid definition of it.

[Anonymous No.15206284]

>>15206258
I already explained this in a previous post but the West is going through an identity crisis right now which is why suicide, depression, school shootings, are all on the rise as well as ideological identification. Why is it happening? Because people don’t know how to live properly anymore for whatever reason, it’s not like we are doomed. People just need to learn to experience reality in a genuine life-affirming fashion again.

[Anonymous No.15206384]

>>15206192
a faggot typed this post

[Anonymous No.15206507]

>>15206384
Being gay is peak masculinity so you fell right into the trap

[Anonymous No.15206522]

>>15205887
>muh memes are reality

[Anonymous No.15206527]

>>15205887
These aren't exactly hard times though. People can still live comfortably even if they are poor.

[Anonymous No.15206558]

>>15205968
another good example. no content, no joke, no banter. just upset at the image itself, so immediately resorts to a vacuous, contentless post that amounts to saying "not an argument" or "k"

[Anonymous No.15206566]

>>15206266
Reasonable on your first point. I'll accept it.

[Anonymous No.15206568]

>>15205602
why someone choose to wear shoes like those

[Anonymous No.15206581]

He's not feminine, he's just fat.

[Anonymous No.15206710]

>>15205885
Not true. Not even all upperclass men went that far and none below did. Mind you a lot of things now commercialised as female were originally male or unisex. Like it's ridiculous that purple and pink are somehow feminine. Although their clothing would be more feminine, few would wear makeup and their behaviour would be nothing close to feminine unless you consider gentlemanly decorum feminine.

[Anonymous No.15206719]

>>15205602
Liberalism (capitalism) is to blame.

[Anonymous No.15206729]

>>15205945
I wish we could carry around swords and daggers too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YT52eMWUsA

[Anonymous No.15206739]

>>15205887
This is historically inaccurate. Hard times create weak men because they all end up malnourished, constantly fatigued, and easily controlled.

[Anonymous No.15206761]

>>15205602
Lewis Mumford, the myth of the machine

[Anonymous No.15206794]

>>15205885
>according to the material necessities of time

This materialist interpretation of masculinity is pointless and ignorant of commonalities across societies

Sure fashion changes and shit, but the males in that photo don’t look strong (which is a common masculine trait among all cultures), productive / self reliant (cmt), etc...

I think ignoring transcendent traits is really just crypto feminism which is just crypto big capitalism

[Anonymous No.15206796]

>>15206739
not really but i see your point.

[Anonymous No.15206950]

One reason for this is surely because testosterone levels are not rapidly dropping and have been for decades.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-the-man-your-father-was/amp/
Another reason is probably that estrogen derivates and xenoestrogens are in almost everything, even in innocent things such as receipts and plastic bottles.

A third reason is the cultural shift against traditional masculinity and the family unit, in essence promoting men to be more feminine.

It should come as no surprise that men are acting and looking more feminine nowadays.

[Anonymous No.15206988]

>>15206219
Testosterone doesn't make you aggressive.
It helps you become a better ore confident so you don't back down as easily and are more likely to defend yourself rather than flee Ina fight or flight situation.

There are many other reasons as to why black and Latino areas are more violent.
Aside from the obvious thst they are poor there are genes such as MAO-A and deficiency genes that are far, far more prevalent among black, and as a consequence Latino populations compared to white.
Asians with genes for MAO-A deficiency see almost unheard of.

[Anonymous No.15207177]

>>15205708
low iq

[Anonymous No.15207400]

>>15206012
ellul and kierkegaard actually matter unlike the other 3