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/lit/ - Literature

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15126679 No.15126679 [Reply] [Original]

I've finished reading pic related. What did I think of it?

>> No.15126703

>>15126679
Both very interesting and very silly at the same time.

>> No.15126709

>>15126703
>silly
Why?

>> No.15126731

>>15126709
It would be an incel Nazi dystopia if implemented in real life.

>> No.15126746

>>15126731
>incel
Spotted someone who hasn't read the book

>> No.15126747

>>15126709
Because it was satire used to point out how logical good-willed ideas can create worse outcomes than the chaos of unorganized societal structures. Are you retarded? Did you not read?

>> No.15126753

>>15126747
>it was satire used to point out how logical good-willed ideas can create worse outcomes than the chaos of unorganized societal structures
How did it point this out when Socrates gives arguments for his state and against the others, which are all made to look inferior.
How did the book show that logical good-willed ideas can create worse outcomes than the chaos of unroganized societal structures?

>> No.15126971

>>15126731
"So silly unlike my neo-liberal nigger tranny 120 Days of Sodom Utopia, where woman are lined-up for abortions, my penis is constantly in a cage, and I need coffee, unwarranted validation, and iPhones to function"

>> No.15128577

The interpretation that Plato is legitimately putting forward his Republic as a utopic political formulation is probably the least believable. You can tell that someone is an idiot or a total autodidact if they genuinely believe this.

Personally I don't buy the satire interpretation. Nothing else that Plato wrote, that survived, shows hints of satire.

I think the most sensible interpretation is that the Republic is an extended allegory for the Soul. Thus the question at the heart of the book is not "how should we order society," but "how should we order ourselves," and Justice is ordering your soul according to the Good.

What did you think of the Myth of Er?

>> No.15128664

>>15126731
That is the point. It is not a blueprint for the best regime. Socrates shows us how all these things being proposed fail. Furthermore it may not even be about a city but more about a reworking of the soul. An example, why is Achilles purposely skipped in thy Myth of Ur?

>> No.15128678

>>15128577
What books support this interpretation of yours? I'm interested

>> No.15128690

>>15126731
Wrong, it would be a communist shithole.

>> No.15128703

>>15126679
Basically justifies modern day China.

>> No.15128723

>>15128678
I'm not sure, as I was was introduced to it alongside my first reading by a professor. It rests on immediate textual evidence.

Here's a link that explains it further: https://www.iep.utm.edu/republic/#H3

A quick google shows there are quite a few classicists who agree: one work I found was City and Soul in Plato's Republic by G. R. F. Ferrari.

>> No.15128730

>>15126679
It's a wonderful book, beautifully written. The prose is vivid and finely chiseled, without a single superfluous word. The imagery is unique and majestic, of a biblical flavor. The author shows off his wide lexicon and always uses precise terms instead of vague, generic ones. Sometimes he even invents his own. The vegetation is described with the precision of a botanist, and the desert and the mountains with that of a geologist. The descriptions of the landscape are evocative and suggestive without ever being purple. Sometimes they get very close to being poetry. The battles are told in a very crude, matter-of-fact way that fits very well with the atmosphere.

Now, this isn't an easy book to read. It doesn't have that je ne sais quoi that makes you forget you're reading a story. It doesn't flow effortlessly. In fact, in some passages you feel like you're mudding through a swamp. Crucial details are thrown into long sentences devoid of punctuation and full of metaphors and complex analogies. It takes legit effort to picture in your mind what the hell is going on, but it's effort that always pays.

The author also refuses to use internal dialogues and even dialogue tags. He purposefully restricts his own writing arsenal in order to hone to perfection the few tools he does choose to use. He only shows us his characters through their actions and bare words, without any sort of commentary. There's no filter, as if we're witnessing what happens through a camera instead of through a person. The result is a style occasionally difficult to absorb, but certainly a perfect fit for the story he was telling.

Finally, Judge Holden is one of the best characters I've ever come across. But did he really have to rape the Kid in that latrine? That felt so gratuitous.

>> No.15128751

>>15128730
Based

>> No.15128819

>>15126679
You tell me

>> No.15129022

>>15126679
I have books 8 and 9 left to read, but so far I'm impressed by it and I think people underestimate it badly. I'd read (not works in completion) from Descartes to Kant and onward prior to Plato, so it's a much different experience for me than if I'd read Plato first. It's good to start with the Greeks and all but I can see what's going on much more clearly having approached it like I did. I really felt vitalized by it. Especially book 6.

>> No.15129041

>>15126731
Wasn’t Hitler democratically elected? Socrates was very anti-democracy.

>> No.15129049

>>15126731
It's true that literally all the chads and stacies constitute the upper class

>> No.15129074

>>15126731
Incels only exist in our unique conditions of society. Can't exist if you get a state-assigned wife or you are a state-assigned husband.

>> No.15129084

>>15129074
Plus Socrates was married. I have a theory that Socrates was a messenger of God akin to Moses or Jesus. It makes what Socrates said a lot more sense. Go read apology with this in mind and see how much it make sense and fits.

Btw in the original language Socrates only referred to god as the God and made fun of gods

It’s just a theory tho. I’m not certain. Only God knows.

>> No.15129205

>>15129084
if you by "akin" you mean of the Christian kind there remains the issue of his love of boys

>> No.15129298 [DELETED] 

>>15129205
No no no. In Islam, it is said that God sent a messenger to every nation throughout Earth.

Christians don't even consider Jesus as messenger of God, they consider him God...

>> No.15129345

>>15126679
Brave new world is a good companion to this

>> No.15129628

>>15129084
idk anything about christianity bar what is intuited passively from culture. so idk what this means.

>> No.15130036

>>15128577
>I think the most sensible interpretation is that the Republic is an extended allegory for the Soul. Thus the question at the heart of the book is not "how should we order society," but "how should we order ourselves," and Justice is ordering your soul according to the Good.
When will this meme end? Why the fuck would Plato make a gigantic allegory about the Soul instead of openly talking about it like he does in many other instances, most notably in "Phaedo"?
Yet here you are calling someone an autodidact, how ironic. You just love spewing famous lit takes like The Republic being an allegory for the Soul. What's next? The usual "hot takes" on The Prince or Metamorphosis?

>> No.15130041

>>15129022
>Especially book 6
Why book 6 specifically?

>> No.15130046

>>15126679
>can't even form a personal opinion

Not goona make it.

>> No.15130053

>>15126747
It is most definitely not satire. Did you read it?

>> No.15130055
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15130055

Literally dicks.

>> No.15130786

>>15128690
It would be NazBol.

>> No.15130805
File: 4 KB, 227x250, 1566084869428.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15130805

>>15129205
Are you retarded? Socrates turned away Alcibiades and looked down on pederastry.

>> No.15130834
File: 499 KB, 1143x1876, Socrates-Marx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15130834

>>15128690
>>15130786

>> No.15130906

>>15129074
what a load of horse shit. men have failed to reproduce at every stage of histroy.

why do u blame society for your problems?

>> No.15130982

The most interesting part of the Republic goes missed by the general reader: that Plato actively fights against poetry as a mechanism for education. I recommend reading 'Preface to Plato' by Havelock before reading any more Plato.

>> No.15131522

>>15130055
t. someeone who never read the republic

>> No.15131538

>>15130982
>that Plato actively fights against poetry as a mechanism for education
How is that interesting? That part doesn't get missed by the readers, it's just that it's a segment that isn't anything special. What's more interesting and radical is the denial of basically all the mediums since they are a copy of a copy (e.g. painting is a copy of a shadow of a form).
Also, poetry isn't used as a mechanism for education in our times. Sure, you have some poems as obligatory readings, but rarely do people take them as educational material.

>> No.15132110

>>15130906
no, not really. and certainly not on this level. only in certain societies which are long gone. also i dont think incels care about reproduction but i wouldnt know because im not one you projecting loser.

>> No.15132759

>>15126971
based

>> No.15133714

>>15128723
Your professor is probably a plan of Allan Bloom. He is often credited along with Strauss for this interpretation.

>> No.15133763

>>15126679
ONIONS BOYS UNITE!

>> No.15133969

>>15133763
Onions boys would be put to death in such a society.

>> No.15133978

>>15133969
Not if everyone in it was a onions boy.

>> No.15133982

>>15131538
>How is that interesting?
Plato argues against letting poets into this republic -- any and all poets. Not for the content they espouse which may be seen as morally troubling to the students, but for what they stand for which is as the Hellenic educator who espouses the doxa as truth

>Also, poetry isn't used as a mechanism for education in our times.
Yes, I know. Which is why it is important to understand how poetry was *the* mode of education in Plato's time.

All of these questions you raise are in the first paragraph of the book I suggested one read before reading more of Plato.

>> No.15134443

>>15133982
Tell me dear Glaucon, can an artwork, such as a poem, be beautiful?

>> No.15134486

>>15133978
Did you actually read the book?

>> No.15134510

>>15134486
yea

>> No.15135295
File: 242 KB, 926x1400, Marte.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15135295

>>15128577
>Plato is legitimately putting forward his Republic as a utopic political formulation is probably the least believable
Please make an argument for this, I'm curious

>Republic is an extended allegory for the Soul
He talked about both how the order of the soul and the order of the city
Reaching the conclusion that they should be ordered in the same way
Soul
>reason
>courage
>temporary needs

City
>philosophers
>guardians
>common citizens

Metals
>gold
>silver
>bronze / iron