Anti-Natalists in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.15109679]

>"NOOOOOOO NOT THE SUFFERINGO NOT THE HECKING HURTIES"; childish "suffering bad" understanding of morality
>SJW-ish overemphasis of consent taken to it's extreme. Cries about how they "didn't consent to being born", yet projects as if that would be the case for everyone.
>99% of the time an atheist. Cries about life and it's "suffering", even though dying in an afterlife-less existence means complete obliteration; no memory of your life or your supposed "suffering" would be left behind after death, as if you didn't live at all.
>BTFO by the fact that 95% of people disagree with him; most of the living beings that supposedly "suffer" don't actually suffer to the degree that he wants to believe they do. Projects his own loserdom on everyone else. Ironically causes suffering by existing and being a talkative dead weight on society.

[Anonymous No.15109690]

>>15109679
INCEL

[Anonymous No.15109696]

Abortion is legal and encouraged in the Bible. Daily reminder.

[Anonymous No.15109699]

>Against life and being born
>Don’t kill themselves

I would take them a lot more seriously if they could stand by their so-called ideals. Neurotic, self-absorbed edgelords with nothing to contribute to existence.

[Anonymous No.15109705]

>>15109696
What book?

[Anonymous No.15109724]

>>15109705
Exodus 21:22-25

[Anonymous No.15109728]

>>15109699
Mainländer did kill himself.

[Anonymous No.15109778]

>>15109679
>NOOOOOOOO I MUST BREED BECAUSE "insert cope here for using the peepee"
Natalists in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.15109791]

>>15109724
This btfo’s the /lit/ larping Christian

[Anonymous No.15109801]

>>15109724
Not him, but I've never seen this before. Interesting, anon. I'll have to look more into it, thanks for pointing it out

[Anonymous No.15109846]

>>15109724
Wtf are you even talking about you dumb lying scumbag leftist? You lying fucking insect

>>15109791
>>15109801
and how stupid can you two be to take this scumbags word for it without taking 2 minutes of your time to Google that specific verse?

>“When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

[Anonymous No.15109860]

Based

[Anonymous No.15109880]

>>15109778
Natalists are coping from what exactly? Antinatalism is cope par excellence. It's just inceldom under the guise of morality; basic-bitch "hurtie bad" morality at that. Sour grapes: the philosophy; normalfags can and will fuck and have children while you seethe.

[Anonymous No.15109885]

>>15109679
Children with mental or physical disabilities should not be born.

[Anonymous No.15109891]

>>15109791
Only the American neocon "Christians."

[Anonymous No.15109896]

>>15109846
Why do burgers think in terms of black and white? You can be a Christian and be prochoice.

[Anonymous No.15109902]

>>15109885
>t. based Spartan

[Anonymous No.15109907]

>>15109778
I agree with last four, with the exception of antinatalism. I enjoy seeing chaos and suffering in this world. Bringing children into this world is bringing more chaos, thus being antinatalist is against my ideas.

[Anonymous No.15109909]

>>15109880
Children are cope. A way to be immortal, to live on, to be important, and "you're supposed to"

As said earlier, Mainlander DID kill himself. But you know, it's my time to waste.

You deeply misunderstand the entire concept.
It's pathological to have a bad time in life and then have children so they can also suffer.
If you lack the level of consciousness to understand that this life is fucking terrible and no one should go through it, cool.
Why does it bother you so much if some people hate a thing you like unless you know inside that there's something wrong here.

[Anonymous No.15109930]

>>15109778
>NOOOOOOOOO WHY WONT WOMEN FUCK ME "it must be because anti-natalism is true not that i'm a loser in life'
anti-natalism is a philosophical dead, never mind a literal dead end

[Anonymous No.15109934]

>>15109778
Grander Soul: life is good at two points: The first, in the womb where possibilities are at their greatest and secondly at the point of life where possibilities have dwindled down to so few that it begins to resemble meaning. Between the two points is a treacherous wait that leads many to wrongly think in alignment with anti natslism where in fact anti natslism is for those who never had any possibilities to begin with already in the womb

[Anonymous No.15109935]

>>15109696
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-misuse-of-exodus-21-22-25-by-pro-choice-advocates

Daily reminder that compelling counter-arguments are a google search away

>>15109728
His adherents ought to follow suit

>>15109778
>misanthropy, antinatalism, solitude, fatalism, apathy is a sign of a superior soul
If only you'd apply the same pessimism to your own perceived elite status, your only source of validation in an otherwise pathetic life, you'd see you are just a "diseased and suffering thing with a head full of false imaginings," seeking to sublimate its wholly meaningless and worthless pains into some kind of self-validation.

>insert cope here
Lazy

>>15109880
r/Foreveralone was the first place I'd ever heard of anti-natalism. Based on the r/antinatalism polls, most seem to be 20-something white atheists. In other words, typical /lit/izens. Stuck in a state of perpetual maligning, resentment, and moralizing.

[Anonymous No.15109973]

>>15109909
>As said earlier, Mainlander DID kill himself. But you know, it's my time to waste.
Thus forfeiting your right to complain about life. It's bad? Kill yourself. Don't want to? Don't think your words carry any weight when the solution to all your woes is a drive to the gun store away.

>A way to be immortal, to live on, to be important, and "you're supposed to"
A cope for mortality? You assume all natalists are atheists or that the atheist natalists care about their "legacy."

>If you lack the level of consciousness to understand that this life is fucking terrible and no one should go through it, cool.
Why should no one go through it? Because it's fucking terrible? So what, who's going to stop me? A tribunal composed of you and your troupe of misanthropic Don Quixotes?

>Why does it bother you so much if some people hate a thing you like unless you know inside that there's something wrong here.
Because anti-natalists/coprophiles/misanthropes/etcetera are annoying. Simple as

[Anonymous No.15109996]

>>15109909
>A way to be immortal, to live on, to be important,
90% of parents don't rationalize having children this way. They just have them.
>"you're supposed to"
This hasn't been true for society for a while now. Antinatalism is the defacto philosophy of Western women, it's just focused on "muh career" or "muh fun" instead of the ethics of life. Less and less people are having children and it's becoming more socially acceptable to do so.
>But you know, it's my time to waste.
>yet bitches about how life is suffering to everyone with an ear to hear
Basically admits to existing just to be annoying with this one sentence.
>If you lack the level of consciousness to understand that this life is fucking terrible and no one should go through it, cool.
I guess almost every single philosopher and genius that wasn't an antinatalist and had a good time or not a terrible time with life wasn't "conscious" enough to see that it's actually really shit. But you are. The absolute hubris of midwits is astounding. Not everyone is a fucking genetic deadend or a sore loser like you.
>Why does it bother you so much if some people hate a thing you like unless you know inside that there's something wrong here.
Because that thing you don't like can be ended fairly easily. I.e. just kill yourself and spare us of such a pretentious pest.

[Anonymous No.15110023]

>antinatalists live to be annoying
>In a thread whose OP is the worst retarded bait bitching and moaning about antinatalists

[Anonymous No.15110032]

>In the workaday world, complainers will not go far. When someone asks how you are doing, you had better be wise enough to reply, “I can’t complain.” If you do complain, even justifiably, people will stop asking how you are doing. Complaining will not help you succeed and influence people. You can complain to your physician or psychiatrist because they are paid to hear you complain. But you cannot complain to your boss or your friends, if you have any. You will soon be dismissed from your job and dropped from the social register. Then you will be left alone with your complaints and no one to listen to them gratis. Perhaps then the message will sink into your head: If you do not feel good enough for long enough, you should act as if you do and even think as if you do. That is the way to get yourself to feel good enough for long enough and stop you from complaining for good, as any self-improvement book can affirm. But should you not improve, someone must assume the blame. And that someone will be you. This is monumentally so if you are a pessimist or a depressive. Should you conclude that life is objectionable or that nothing matters—do not waste our time with your nonsense. We are on our way to the future, and the philosophically disheartening or the emotionally impaired are not going to hinder our progress. If you cannot say something positive, or at least equivocal, keep it to yourself. Pessimists and depressives need not apply for a position in the enterprise of life. You have two choices: Start thinking the way God and your society want you to think or be forsaken by all. The decision is yours, since you are a free agent who can choose to rejoin our fabricated reality or stubbornly insist on . . . what? That we should mollycoddle non-positive thinkers like you or rethink how the whole world transacts its business? That we should start over from scratch? Or that we should go extinct? Try to be realistic. We did the best we could with the tools we had. After all, we are only human, as we like to say. Our world may not be in accord with nature’s way, but it did develop organically according to our consciousness, which delivered us to a lofty prominence over the Creation. The whole thing just took on a life of its own, and nothing is going to stop it anytime soon. There can be no starting over and no going back. No major readjustments are up for a vote. And no melancholic head-case is going to bad-mouth our catastrophe. The universe was created by the Creator, by damn. We live in a country we love and that loves us back. We have families and friends and jobs that make it all worthwhile. We are somebodies, not a bunch of nobodies without names or numbers or retirement plans. [1/2]

[Anonymous No.15110035]

>>15110032
>None of this is going to be overhauled by a thought criminal who contends that the world is not double-plus-good and never will be. Our lives may not be unflawed—that would deny us a better future to work toward—but if this charade is good enough for us, then it should be good enough for you. So if you cannot get your mind right, try walking away. You will find no place to go and no one who will have you. You will find only the same old trap the world over. Lighten up or leave us alone. You will never get us to give up our hopes. You will never get us to wake up from our dreams. We are not contradictory beings whose continuance only worsens our plight as mutants who embody the contorted logic of a paradox. Such opinions will not be accredited by institutions of authority or by the middling run of humanity. To lay it on the line, whatever thoughts may emerge from your deviant brain are invalid, inauthentic, or whatever dismissive term we care to hang on you, who are only “one of those people.” So start pretending that you feel good enough for long enough, stop your complaining, and get back in line. If you are not as strong as Samson—that no-good suicide and slaughterer of Philistines—then get loaded to the gills and return to the trap. Keep your medicine cabinet and your liquor cabinet well stocked, just like the rest of us. Come on and join the party. No pessimists or depressives invited. Do you think we are morons? We know all about those complaints of yours. The only difference is that we have sense enough and feel good enough for long enough not to speak of them. Keep your powder dry and your pessimistic, nihilistic, and defeatist temperaments in check. Our shibboleth: “Up the Conspiracy and down with Consciousness.” [2/2]
~Ligotti, Conspiracy Against The Human Race

[Anonymous No.15110068]

>>15109699
This so much. Everytime I bring this up to an antinatalist, all they ever come up with is “im scared, the fear of death is inherent to existence”. Like if this idea didn’t immediately reveal that they actually fear nonexistence more than existence, that there’s something to life that keeps them tethered, proving to everyone that their “logic” is false and all cope for their own misery.

To be an antinatalist you have to
1) deluded enough to believe everyone who enjoys life is lying to themselves or too stupid to realize they’re suffering (as if intelligence was a prerequisite for it) (also including every philosopher, scientist, great man, high iq person who has enjoyed and spoken positively of existence)
2) arrogant enough to believe they are “intelligent” enough to know how miserable life really is (this meaning they think they are more intelligent than all those phil, sci, etc from above)
3) daft enough to never notice or accept that suffering is subjective and experienced differently by everyone, and what constitutes as suffering for them might not for others
4) stubborn enough never do anything about their suffering

[Anonymous No.15110074]

>>15110023
>wahhh wahhh life is suffering
>doesn't kill himself
>instead projects his shitty life on others and act superior about it
Go on /lit/ archives and see how many threads are stared by antinatalists and how many are started specifically against antinatalism. I assure you there are a 100 of the former before you get one of the latter. Pessimism and optimism should both be personal, and arrived from personal experience. Nobody needs to be told whether or not their life is shit; they just know and will act on it. Antinatalists know that their lives are shit, and want other's to believe theirs are too. There isn't a more annoying situation.

[Anonymous No.15110077]

>>15109935
>https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-misuse-of-exodus-21-22-25-by-pro-choice-advocates
This a very pro-Gnostic argument. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.15110087]

>>15110074
>Antinatalists know that their lives are shit, and want other's to believe theirs are too. There isn't a more annoying situation.
This also goes inversely with optimists as well.

[Anonymous No.15110103]

>>15110032
>But you cannot complain to your boss or your friends, if you have any. You will soon be dismissed from your job and dropped from the social register. Then you will be left alone with your complaints and no one to listen to them gratis
Stopped reading there.
>I have failed to cultivate any meaningful or close social relationships because of my pessimistic and toxic demeanor and now im going to project my experience to the rest of the world, even though countless cultural artefact and millions of people contradict my experience but since I am too self-conceited to accept that my experience only accounts for a fraction of all possible experiences I will simply dismiss them as unaware, unconscious idiots.

[Anonymous No.15110109]

>>15110074
>Antinatalists know that their lives are shit, and want other's to believe theirs are too. There isn't a more annoying situation.
This applies to optimists as well. Both those who PROMOTE pessimism and optimism, instead of just letting people become either out of experience, need to swallow a brass pill.

[Anonymous No.15110167]

>>15110103
>Stopped reading
Yeah, we realize you only make threads to complain about your speculation of what a philosophical position is rather than reading about and understanding it.

Lazy fuck.

[Anonymous No.15110191]

>>15109846
RSV translates as:
>When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
If you're a KJV-onlyist, kill yourself, but if you or anyone knows Hebrew, I'd be curious of a more in-depth explanation

[Anonymous No.15110209]

>>15110191
"Much scholarly work has been done to determine the biblical and traditional attitudes about abortion. One must ask what was said and why, what was its context, and inquire about what was not said as well. This discussion identifies some of the conclusions reached in scholarly literature. The word "abortion" is not mentioned in the Bible, but much in the Bible speaks to the issue. The most obvious passage is from Exodus 21:22-25. This part of the Covenant Code legislates the case of a pregnant woman who becomes involved in a brawl between 2 men and has a miscarriage. A distinction is then made between the penalty that is to be exacted for the loss of the fetus and injury to the woman. For the fetus, a fine is paid as determined by the husband and the judges. However, if the woman is injured or dies, "lex talionis" is applied -- life for life, eye for eye, etc. The story has somewhat limited application to the current abortion debate since it deals with accidental and not willful pregnancy termination. Even so, the distinction made between the woman and the fetus is important. The woman is valued as a person under the convenant; the fetus is valued as property. Its status is certainly inferior to that of the woman. This passage gives no support to the parity argument that gives equal religious and moral worth to woman and fetus. The bibilical portrait of person does not begin with an explanation of conception but with a portrayal of the creation of Adam and Eve. Thus, the biblical portrait of a person is that of a complex, many-sided creature with the god-like ability and responsibility to make choices. The fetus does not meet those criteria. When considering the issue of abortion, the one who unquestionably fits this portrait of personhood is the pregnant woman. The abortion question focuses on the personhood of the woman, who in turn considers the potential personhood of the fetus in terms of the multiple dimensions of her own history and the future. In biblical perspective, this is a god-like decision. Any study of the tradition of the church over the centuries must deal with at least 2 related questions: the morality of the act of induced abortion; and the definition of the person. These are related, because if one does not believe that the fetus is a person until a certain age the act must be defined differently than if one considers the fetus a person from conception."

[Anonymous No.15110213]

Why are anti-natalist so hellbent on proselytizing their extinctionist world view onto everyone? It's literally a doomsday cult at this point.

[Anonymous No.15110224]

>>15109679
>"NOOOOOOO NOT THE SUFFERINGO NOT THE HECKING HURTIES"; childish "suffering bad" understanding of morality

Relevant:
https://www.abolitionist.com/anti-natalism.html

[Anonymous No.15110228]

>>15110213
why are burgers so obsessed with race? even in autistic anti-natalist charts they're talking about blacks and whites. just what the fuck.

[Anonymous No.15110252]

>>15109846
You need to pray more

[Anonymous No.15110316]

>>15110224
> Although the good things in one's life make one's life go better than it otherwise would have gone, one could not have been deprived by their absence if one had not existed. Those who never exist cannot be deprived.
Some truly revolutionary thought these antinatalists bring to the table

[Anonymous No.15110317]

>>15109907
Good point

[Anonymous No.15110335]

>>15110228
Because they are racist.
The entire burger culture is based on racism, even the members of minorities are racist.

[Anonymous No.15110350]

>>15109907
I hate people so much that I want them to have children so they and their children suffer with their miserable existence

[Anonymous No.15110380]

The only true antinatalists are corpses in the ground. I urge any would-be antinatalist on this board to join them posthaste.

[Anonymous No.15110399]

>>15110228
Americans are a peculiar bunch, one minute they alarm us about the browning of their stock the next they are fine with their own extinction anyway.

I sometimes wonder if they subscribe to anti-natalism because they see the futility of securing white hegemony or they are coping from the fact that they are all mongrels to varying degrees.

[Anonymous No.15110403]

>>15110350
sounds based to me

[Anonymous No.15110416]

I don't know if I want my baby to be born into the chink dominated gene-edited AI totalitarian wacko world.
>good luck son! *dies*

[Anonymous No.15110505]

>>15110228
we have the most non whites for the longest period of time whats hard to understand? people born in gated communities tend to not be racist either.

[Anonymous No.15110554]

It took me way too long to realize that most of these weird philosophical trends of recent times are simply a result of a bizarre fear of suffering, and inability to deal with it, by modern people.

[Anonymous No.15110624]

>>15109679
>SJW-ish
you need to read

[Anonymous No.15110629]

>>15110554
Pessimism is very ancient, what are you talking about

[Anonymous No.15110724]

>>15110629
Pessism was less about suffering and more about the inherent struggle of life

[Anonymous No.15110744]

>>15110629
>what are you talking about
Not Pessimism. You can be a Pessimist without this hysteric fear of suffering.

[Anonymous No.15110788]

>>15109679
Please don't compare anti-natalists to SJW's just because they both dislike being made to do things

[Anonymous No.15110816]

>>15109934
whigger logic

[Anonymous No.15110864]

>>15110213
>baby born black
>Time of Pain: lifetime

[Anonymous No.15110870]

>>15110213
Feel bad for this guy if he's real. I get the sense that most antinatalists are just very unhappy people and are asking for others to reach out. When they say, "life is suffering" what they of course mean is that they are suffering in their own lives.

[Anonymous No.15110896]

>>15110209
Based post. Source?

[Anonymous No.15110898]

>>15110399
From what I've seen antinatalism tends to emerge from one of several pathologies:
>Overemphasis on the reduction of suffering without acknowledging the positive aspects of life. Yes, someone who is never born will never suffer, but neither will they experience all the positive things such as love, happiness, triumph and pleasure.
>a feeling of general worthlessness as an individual
>a misanthropic desire to completely abandon the human race without making them your enemy or having to take your own life.

[Anonymous No.15111529]

>>15110213
>Why are christians so hellbent on proselytizing their cucked world view onto everyone? It's literally a doomsday cult at this point.

[Anonymous No.15111542]

Natalists should have to experience all pain and suffering in existence simultaneously.
LiFe Is WoRtH liViNg BeCaUsE tHe PaiN IsN't MiNe

[Anonymous No.15111562]

>>15109679
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T BE EXPERIENCING MORE SUFFERING THAN ME. IF I CAN HANDLE MY SAD DOGGY DOGGO DYING THAT MEANS I UNDERSTAND WHAT SOMEONE WITH CHRONIC ILLNESSES OR SEX SLAVES ARE GOING THROUGH.
Let's go point by point over your tired bullshit arguments, just for the sake of it.

>SJW-ish overemphasis of consent taken to it's extreme. Cries about how they "didn't consent to being born", yet projects as if that would be the case for everyone.
Has absolutely nothing to do with social justice. And yes, it is the case for everyone. If you can find a single person that can demonstrate having consented to their own birth you have just proved souls exist and you would actually literally destroy anti-natalism. So if you have such proof, just present it. Until then I'll just stick to the fact no one can remember consenting to their birth, pre-conception.
>99% of the time an atheist.
Gonna need a source on that, but even then seems irrelevant.
>Cries about life and it's "suffering", even though dying in an afterlife-less existence means complete obliteration; no memory of your life or your supposed "suffering" would be left behind after death, as if you didn't live at all.
Oh so this is what his is about. Babby's first 'I'm gonna die and stop existing" crisis? I never understood why this scares people like you so much. It's literally the only really good ending that could bring anyone peace. There is literally nothing to suffer if you cease existing.
>BTFO by the fact that 95% of people disagree with him
95% of people think they disagree with anti-natalists, until they get reasonably sick or fucked and get depressed or some thing. Saw that with my own eyes, with people in my own family. Took some of them more than 85 years, but you could see how desperate they were to die at the end, and asking them "but wasn't it worth living all that life up till now" makes no difference at that point. In either case people need to cling to their good experiences and forget what they suffered to trudge through the shit in most cases.
>most of the living beings that supposedly "suffer" don't actually suffer to the degree that he wants to believe they do
They suffer more. You would not last 5 seconds as a wild animal in nature.
>Projects his own loserdom on everyone else.
Literally, factually the opposite. You are the one perpetuating your loserdom for reasons you can't ever possibly justify rationally. Seriously, do it now. Why do you HAVE to have children? Give me your best reason, and you'll see how selfish and pointless and ridiculous it is. You don't NEED to have children. You WANT to have them for reasons like "I need to perpetuate my family", "I need to perpetuate my species", "I need to save my marriage", "I need hands to work on my farm". Why do you NEED these things? Why should any other fucking person come to this world to fix YOUR needs? Fuck off you dumb piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.15111576]

>>15109778
based schop

[Anonymous No.15111584]

>>15110068
>>15109699

It's ok, we all were 12 year olds once. We all were incapable of any mild sort of abstraction once.
To give you just a very very simple basic idea, ok? Imagine the Christian view of the world, where suicide almost guarantees being sent to hell. Now someone put you in this world without asking you, and you must obey Christianity not to be sent to hell and suffer forever, and suicide is not an option because of the above.
There. For any christian anti-natalists, your dumb fucking answer is there. If they weren't born, they wouldn't have been put in this situation.
But "99% are atheists", right? They're still human beings with human feelings and human psyches and there is a good reason that for every 1 suicide there like 100 attempts, and for each 1 attempt there are like 1000 people thinking of attempting. You don't just get a fucking living being evolved for 4 billion years to continue living at all costs, in a body full of failsafes, and get it to just end its own life willy-nilly. It is very easy for any one with minimum 100 IQ to see how "not being born" trumps "having to drive a knife on your own throat".
You are either underage and should leave this site, or you're literally brain dead.

[Anonymous No.15111600]

>>15111562
>Why do you HAVE to have children? Give me your best reason, and you'll see how selfish and pointless and ridiculous it is. You don't NEED to have children. You WANT to have them for reasons like "I need to perpetuate my family", "I need to perpetuate my species", "I need to save my marriage", "I need hands to work on my farm". Why do you NEED these things? Why should any other fucking person come to this world to fix YOUR needs? Fuck off you dumb piece of shit.

The worth of ones life is not up to you to decide, my future kid maybe will see life has worth even if you do not.

And yes life has no inherent meaning and is only suffering, but depriving someone of what they attribute the worth of life to be is retarded.

You're basically saying: "Life is not worth the suffering so I won't bring a kid to this earth". When my kid might find the suffering worth.

I agree with you that life is only pain and suffering, but it is not up to YOU to impose the worth of that suffering to another human being.

[Anonymous No.15111628]

>>15111600
You're not depriving anyone of anything by not having them exist, but by allowing them to exist you are forcing evils you know to exist onto them.

[Anonymous No.15111633]

I've gotten to the point where I'm convinced that antinats suffer from some sort of hypersensitivity disorder to pain. It's the only way I can explain the massive difference in the way the world is experienced. Are there enough of them to do an empirical study on this?

>>15111584
I get that suicide is scary, but if someone genuinely believed that in the rest of their lives the total suffering would outweigh the total joy I don't see how anything other than offing yourself is a rational option. Chucking yourself off a high place to an instant death can hardly be worse than decades more of drudgery.

[Anonymous No.15111635]

>>15111600
You gave me absolutely 0 reasons why you NEED to have a kid.
Unless you're telling me the reason is "well if I found life meaningless, maybe I should try to see if my kid will think that too". To which I ask you, what kind of sick twisted fuck would do this experiment/bet on a human life?
The biggest issue here is not that anti-natalists don't want to have kids, is that they are the only ones who stopped to think about this rationally. Everyone else is just having them because "it's what you do", or they are doing it subconsciously for selfish reasons.
Much like buddhism and stoicism and so many other currents preach overcoming your natural desires and instincts, just think of anti-natalism as another such step. You don't HAVE to reproduce, ever, for no reason. There is no reason you need to submit anyone else to this planet for whatever it is your beliefs are. If they don't exist, they are not missing anything. If you do create a new life, it's just a bet you're making with them.

[Anonymous No.15111637]

>>15111600
>maybe

[Anonymous No.15111645]

>>15111628
>You're not protecting anyone from anything by not having them exist, but by not allowing them to exist you are taking goods you know to exist from them.

[Anonymous No.15111655]

>>15111628
>but by allowing them to exist you are forcing evils you know to exist onto them.

True. but like I said, other people might find the evils worth it. Yes there is evils that are beyond human capacity to handle (chronic illness and any other major intense issues), but the majority doesn't experience that in their lifetimes, if you would consider that a "gamble" I accept that denomination, but not being worth is something personal and unique

[Anonymous No.15111657]

>>15111633
>I get that suicide is scary
You don't. I once tried to kill myself by hanging and my body was literally doing things by itself to untie the noose. It's a whole different level of basal instinct. Your body does not want to die, and it will do everything, and conjure up every image of your mother crying or of you surviving the attempt and being disabled and etc to make you stay alive for one more second. That's the whole premise of those suicide hotlines too, by the way. To keep you alive for one more second for those ideas to kick in and make you give up.

Think of it like this, if you were captured by some enemy army and they tell you they're about to torture you in unimaginable ways, but some friend gives you the option to kill yourself first, either with a painless instant pill or with a dull butterknife, which one would you choose? Probably to kill yourself with the painless pill, right? Antinatalists consider "not being born" as the best instant painless pill in the universe, and any form of suicide after birth as being the butterknife.

About your "chucking yourself from a high place" just look up what happens to people who survive this stuff.

[Anonymous No.15111658]

>>15111645
pain always outweighs the good or pleasure
once pain hits you all of your coping mechanisms fail

[Harmodius !HeLLasW2K. No.15111667]

Isn't it hilarious that people who will never reproduce somehow care more about the life of someone else's kid than their own shit life spent on sperging out at people with a social life?

[Anonymous No.15111671]

>>15111542
>Thinking everyone should feel responsibility for the negatives in your life
Literal child thinking

[Anonymous No.15111672]

>>15111635
Nigga you either quoted the wrong guy or you can't read what I said lmao

>Unless you're telling me the reason is "well if I found life meaningless, maybe I should try to see if my kid will think that too".

I literally do not say that wtf kek

[Anonymous No.15111677]

>>15111633
>Chucking yourself off a high place to an instant death can hardly be worse than decades more of drudgery.
i can't speak for others but i don't want to put the burden of my suffering on my family

>>15111657
that's scary and i am really sorry anon

[Anonymous No.15111678]

>>15111671
based

[Anonymous No.15111681]

>>15111667
>Isn't it hilarious that people who think before they have children think about the consequences of having children?
Yeah, it's a riot. I'm practically in tears here.

[Anonymous No.15111684]

>>15111667
>“It is curious that while good people go to great lengths to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place.”

[Anonymous No.15111701]

>>15111635
>To which I ask you, what kind of sick twisted fuck would do this experiment/bet on a human life?

People who aren't pussies like you that actually see the good in human life worth it.

[Anonymous No.15111702]

>>15111667
>me not have empathy
>me have lots of kids, suffering good
>empathy bad

[Anonymous No.15111705]

>>15109699
agree. you go join antinatalist group on fb. just some weird unintelligent unhappy fuck. they bring no good argument whatsoever

[Anonymous No.15111708]

>>15111701
>GRUG NOT PUSSY, GRUG SHOW WORLD GRUG MAN BECAUS GRUG MAKE LITTLE GRUG.
I mean when you put it so elegantly it's hard to deny it.

[Anonymous No.15111710]

>>15111708
lmaooo

[Harmodius !HeLLasW2K. No.15111714]

>>15111681
Under your theocratic dystopia parents would have full control over their kids and that includes taking their lives. Records of middle age mothers and fathers ridding themselves of their kids without being punished for their deed survive to this day.
>>15111684
>incels
>good people
Try again fag.
>>15111702
>me have empathy for 2 days old baby girls
>BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EVERYONE I DON'T LIKE MUST DIE
>WHORES, HOMOS, POLYGAMOUS PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH BLUE HAIR DON'T DESERVE TO LIVE
Quit LARPing as a benevolent person, you will never be one.

[Anonymous No.15111719]

>>15111708
Not the same anon, but being defeatist has no practical value whatsoever, even in regards to the meaning of life. So he kind of has a point

[Anonymous No.15111724]

>>15111714
>Quit LARPing as a benevolent person, you will never be one.

based nigga

[Anonymous No.15111733]

>>15111714
>>incels
>>good people
>Try again fag.
what? incels are failed normalfags who want to have a girlfriend and want to raise families
author of that book is a married guy. anti-natalism is about ethics. anti-natalism has nothing to do with incels.
also not an argument

[Anonymous No.15111749]

>>15111714
>>BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EVERYONE I DON'T LIKE MUST DIE
>>WHORES, HOMOS, POLYGAMOUS PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH BLUE HAIR DON'T DESERVE TO LIVE
holy fucking shit what's up with all this projection?
where did he said those lines?

[Anonymous No.15111757]

>>15109679
that's cool and all but i still don't feel like procreating voluntarily

[Anonymous No.15111759]

>>15111757
you never had a chance to begin with

[Anonymous No.15111760]

>>15111759
how so?

[Anonymous No.15111762]

>>15111658
>pain always outweighs the good or pleasure
That's what I meant by the hypersensitivity disorder above. Are you aware that most people don't feel this way?
>once pain hits you all of your coping mechanisms fail
And once joy hits, any hint of a previous suffering is blown away.

[Harmodius !HeLLasW2K. No.15111763]

>>15111733
>>15111749
The only religious people on this board who tend to be at variance with abortion are chinless omega males and life failures who project their insecurities on others and who want to moralfag around despite being the least moral creatures in the social hierarchy. If you had a successful life you wouldn't give two shits about someone else's choice.

[Anonymous No.15111767]

>>15111762
>Are you aware that most people don't feel this way?
Most people (probably in your white middle/upper-middle class american suburban area) probably don't experience this until later in their life.
Have you seen one of your family members die of some disease yet?

[Anonymous No.15111771]

>>15111759
Exactly, if you don't even exist you have no idea of "good" or "bad". No suffering is good BECAUSE you know what suffering is. Not suffering is not "good" for someone who doesn't existe because he literally doesn't exist

[Anonymous No.15111774]

>>15111767
>Have you seen one of your family members die of some disease yet?
Yep. Have you seen healthy people?

[Anonymous No.15111777]

>>15111771
no I meant you were a loser and no one would date you

[Anonymous No.15111780]

>>15111763
you sound like a type of a person who support eugenics

[Anonymous No.15111782]

>>15111777
based and checked

[Anonymous No.15111793]

>>15111767
By your logic:

>Most people (probably in your white middle/upper-middle class american suburban area) probably don't experience this until later in their life

Then does the suffering at the end of life trump all the pleasure of the past?

>probably in your white middle/upper-middle class american suburban area

At one point (if the world doesnt end until then) the majority of human population will be lifted off of poverty. What's your argument when that happens?

[Anonymous No.15111794]

>Benatar's debunked asymmetry
not this shit again....

[Anonymous No.15111802]

>>15111777
You got me there, I'll give you the W

[Anonymous No.15111807]

>>15111794
stop samefagging you dumb bitch

[Anonymous No.15111808]

>>15109679
Anti-natalism isn't a philosophical position, it's depression or some related condition that causes people to feel pain more intensely than pleasure. There's no point in mocking it or arguing it, but an actual treatment might help those folks.

[Anonymous No.15111812]

>>15111793
>At one point (if the world doesnt end until then) the majority of human population will be lifted off of poverty
I think this is the fundamental thing. You don't understand how unbelievably, unrealistically optimistic what you just said is. It's beyond ridiculous, yet I'm sure you wholeheartedly believe this. I can see how it makes sense in such an optimistic mind to have a child. I just could never see the world in that light, however.
>Then does the suffering at the end of life trump all the pleasure of the past?
This is up to each one, right? I can tell you in my experience, if you are lucky enough to only truly suffer at the end, you might still see people saying things like "It's not worth it, I wish I was just dead already".
If you don't believe me just visit your local retirement home.

[Anonymous No.15111821]

>>15111808
why they're depressed on the first place?

[Harmodius !HeLLasW2K. No.15111822]

>>15111780
Yeah I'd most likely do it. The only way i can see incels being useful to society is by pumping their beta asses full of HRT and turning them into sissified cumrags for alpha males. Just the passable ones though, the rest can become fertilizer for the earth.

[Anonymous No.15111824]

>>15111759
that one hit home
>>15111771
bro what
>>15111794
how is it debunked?

[Anonymous No.15111828]

>>15109699
That's part of the trap of life. If it was so easy to kill yourself, then nobody would be suffering.

[Anonymous No.15111831]

>>15111821
As little as a random brain chemistry imbalance can cause it.

[Anonymous No.15111836]

>>15111812
>I think this is the fundamental thing. You don't understand how unbelievably, unrealistically optimistic what you just said is. It's beyond ridiculous, yet I'm sure you wholeheartedly believe this. I can see how it makes sense in such an optimistic mind to have a child. I just could never see the world in that light, however.

I understand your POV but I believe this is more an economic topic and we should present analytical and political arguments instead of optimistic/pessimistic views.

>This is up to each one, right? I can tell you in my experience, if you are lucky enough to only truly suffer at the end, you might still see people saying things like "It's not worth it, I wish I was just dead already".
If you don't believe me just visit your local retirement home.

I did it once and you are right, the majority of old people are filled with regret, but I did meet old people who geniunely enjoyed their life and have no regrets and the conclusion I came to was that the happy old people are inherently optimistic, this is one of the reasons I believe in the whitepill.

[Anonymous No.15111839]

>>15111831
>random brain chemistry imbalance
thanks for solving mental illness

[Anonymous No.15111846]

>>15111822
>a nazi tripfag women

[Anonymous No.15111847]

>>15111839
Stupid questions get stupid answers.

[Anonymous No.15111851]

>>15111847
how that was a stupid question?

[Anonymous No.15111867]

>>15111847
>reductionist admits to being stupid
best conclusion you've made yet

[Anonymous No.15111871]

>>15109909
>you're supposed to
Yes you are supposed to, this isn’t just societal expectation (in fact society now doesn’t care so much for having children, many discourage it), this is biological purpose, it is an inherent aspect of life to propagate itself and pass on its genes, it is literally the reason you exist. There may be more meaning to our lives, some deeper purpose such as the search for truth and God, but regardless of other purposes, one of them is to reproduce, in other words: have (unprotected) sex (with a lifelong partner of the opposite sex)

[Harmodius !HeLLasW2K. No.15111873]

>>15111846
No, I'm a human being (man).

[Anonymous No.15111884]

>>15111873
tripfags aren't human
kill yourself attention whore

[Harmodius !HeLLasW2K. No.15111895]

>>15111884
We're all whores for someone, we just use different parts of our bodies.

[Anonymous No.15111903]

>>15111895
broooo that's really deep bro

[Anonymous No.15111906]

>>15111867
he's right though, if there's more to being antinat than being a sadsack, they've yet to show that

[Anonymous No.15111935]

I can hate my own existence but why should I care if others suffer or if some roasty shits out tons of kids?

[Anonymous No.15111940]

>>15111836
>I did meet old people who geniunely enjoyed their life and have no regrets and the conclusion I came to was that the happy old people are inherently optimistic
times were different back now with all this economic, political and climate bullshite the mental illness is on it's all time high. it wasn't normal for young people to feel depressed all the time like 50 years ago. now majority of youth is depressed.

>I believe in the whitepill.
good for you lad

[Anonymous No.15111951]

>>15111935
You can virtue signal by pretending to have empathy with the "suffering" of her happy kids.

[Anonymous No.15111965]

>>15111906
the benatar diagram was already posted, go figure

[Anonymous No.15112048]

>>15111831
That’s so gay and I never believe this. There’s too many shitty human inventions like schools and 40+ hour work weeks for this to be true. I doubt any prehistoric hunter was depressed.

[Anonymous No.15112059]

>>15112048
>I doubt any prehistoric hunter was depressed.
yes they weren't because they lived in a stateless, moneyless and classless society

[Anonymous No.15112089]

>>15112059
probably less that and more that they were doing what they spent 100s of thousands of years evolving to do, ie. run around nature hunting and gathering stuff, popping out babies young, all the stuff that goes with primitive living

[Anonymous No.15112104]

>>15109699
>>15110068
>>15111705

They are against birth, not against life.