/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15050635]

I'd like religiontards (or retards, in plain language) to reply to this

[Anonymous No.15050641]

> words words words
Didnt read lmao. Seethe harder tranny

[Anonymous No.15050668]

what do you want us to say??? It's a good quote

[Anonymous No.15050681]

>>15050635
Based. Christfags/j*ws/Muzzies on suicide watch

[Anonymous No.15050694]

I'm religiontard and consider this based

[Anonymous No.15050700]

there are malevolent "gods" though that obscure the truth from us

[Anonymous No.15050714]

Marcus didn't say this

[Anonymous No.15050728]

>>15050635
define “good”

[Anonymous No.15050735]

>>15050728
Like bad, but the opposite

[Anonymous No.15050743]

>>15050635
if god is unjust and you don't woship him you'll burn

[Anonymous No.15050761]

>>15050635
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

[Anonymous No.15050769]

>>15050743
Then he and his jewboi son can kiss my ass

[Anonymous No.15050770]

>>15050743
>god is unjust
he's unjust by our own, human, inferior standards. He operates on his own sense of justice and morality

[Anonymous No.15050806]

>>15050635
>born into wealth
>arranged marriage with qt teenage girl of nobility
>given best education, food and position of power
I like Marky mark as much as the next nigga but at the end of the day he's the equivalent of some trust fund baby telling an average joe to suck it up and accept his shitty life.

[Anonymous No.15050816]

>>15050770
why are his superior

[Anonymous No.15050839]

>>15050806
But all you faggots eat that shit up, too

[Anonymous No.15050845]

>>15050806
I agree with this. I'm a huge romaboo and Marcus is based but he had a good life. He had an Empire given to him, he had power over his own life and others. I cant really relate to that

[Anonymous No.15050853]

>>15050816
Muh faith, muh mysterious ways

[Anonymous No.15050923]

>>15050635
He never said that.

>>15050845
>>15050806
He faced some pretty hard challenges.

[Anonymous No.15050945]

>>15050923
True but he facing great conflict can gain great glory. He led armies against Rome enemies, he had the power to fight those enemies. That's more than most get.

[Anonymous No.15050963]

>>15050806
Marcus aurelius wasn't writing advice to anyone but himself, he was telling himself to suck it up. Furthermore he never said the quote in OP. Jesus christ, why do I have to keep sayng the same shit over and over whenever marcus is brought up. Did none of you do research? Do you retain any information? Did you even read meditations?

[Anonymous No.15050973]

>>15050635
Oh the sentiment is fine, but it leaves a few things out. Humanity's nature is innately sinful and we do not have the power to actually be paradigms of virtue ourselves. This is why we seek God's mercy, and salvation, and repent for our sins while attempting to do the best we can.

>buh buh buh
Marcus Aurelius raised Commodus. He is the perfect example of a guy who tried his hardest and still fucking failed at the one task which no man has any excuse to fail at: Raising his children to be as good or better men than he.

But he could be forgiven for his failures. All that is necessary is that one acknowledges that we are only mortal, and that through the grace of God, our sins may be forgiven. Acknowledging our sinful nature is part of this process. Simply saying "durr well I'm gonna be gud and if da gods don't think I'm good enuff den dey're evil" is fedora nonsense.

[Anonymous No.15050985]

>>15050973
This

[Anonymous No.15050989]

>>15050635
If you expect me to take offense at the idea that living a good life is good in itself rather than for a higher power, i imagine you spend more time dealing with rancor than actually trying to be noble and virtuous

[Anonymous No.15051003]

>>15050635
People read this and think, "YES, I will cut my penis off." lmao

[Anonymous No.15051012]

>>15050973
Commodus was slandered by the senate, there's no way he was actually that bad

[Anonymous No.15051778]

>>15050973
Amen.

[Anonymous No.15051856]

>>15050714
Yes he did

[Anonymous No.15051889]

>>15050973
>Humanity's nature is innately sinful
Proof?
Your entire argument stands off this one statement.

[Anonymous No.15051919]

>>15050806
K. You realize like 99% of historical figures had to be wealthy for their parents to afford their education? If you weren't wealthy you couldn't read or write. Whats the point of shaming a person because they had a favorable upbringing?

[Anonymous No.15051930]

>>15050845
Leading an Empire is no blessing

[Anonymous No.15051943]

>>15051930
yeah being the most powerful man in the world would suck
retard

[Anonymous No.15051973]

>>15050728
based
>>15050735
obtuse

[Anonymous No.15051974]

>>15051943
You have to be older than 18 to post here.

[Anonymous No.15052054]

>>15051930
Yeah I would love to be chosen to be emperor in a time where my own bodyguards were constantly scheming to assassinate me, my senators were itching for a reason to depose me, the Germans constantly invading and sacking Roman cities, most of my children and my brother dead from disease and to top it all off my son is the most incompetent emperor since caligula

[Anonymous No.15052080]

>>15051943
But it would. You have more responsibility than anyone else in the world. More shit to worry about, more people who hate you for basically no reason, a bunch of fuckboys after your position, and how can you trust that anyone isn't just exploiting you?

[Anonymous No.15052097]

>>15050635
kill yourself bottom tier bait

[Anonymous No.15052228]

>>15050635
Kinda based. A righteous athiest would most likely be welcomed by God more than a hypocrite follower of religion

[Anonymous No.15052282]

>>15051856
No, he didn't. It's a reinterpreation of his philosophy

[Anonymous No.15052418]

>>15050806
he was telling this to himself onlybecause his private notes were published as book. he didn't intended them to be made public , let alone published as a self helf jbp-tier book. it was his own private philosophy that helped him attain his power.

[Anonymous No.15052460]

If the gods are unjust it's even more important to worship them. If they are huge assholes who might smite you for the slightest transgression, you had better start sacrificing.

[Anonymous No.15052474]

>>15050635
This is true, but remember that a good life as defined by most philosophers is absent of most vices condemned by abrahamic faiths. The only part it lacks is the autistic reverence for Semitic desert cults. This is why Christianity is good for society but bad for the self, it should be part of society because it inspires mostly good morals, one should be able to rise above because the dogma and superstition distracts from real truth

[Anonymous No.15052599]

>>15052282
Bro he wrote that and he also warned his readers people would later try to deny it

[Anonymous No.15052614]

>>15052599
Post the exact passage of meditations in which this was written, with proper citation

[Anonymous No.15052653]

>>15052614
It was left out of the English translation because (((they))) wouldn't allow it..

[Anonymous No.15052676]

>>15050635
there's no way to know what a good life is or how to lead one without an absolute moral arbiter, so some dude could just decide that according to his subjective standards (which have just as much justification as whatever bullshit you're about to come up with) that raping as many children as possible is a "good life."

[Anonymous No.15052689]

>>15052676
no wait this conceded too much ground, because in fact there is no such thing as a good life or a good anything without an absolute, unquestionable moral arbiter. "goodness" is impossible without God

[Anonymous No.15052767]

>>15052689
Wtf I guess I believe in god now bros???

[Anonymous No.15052837]

[Anonymous No.15052851]

>>15052837
Based

[Anonymous No.15053007]

>>15052837
>stop being a person or something lmao
Fuck off pajeet

[Anonymous No.15053012]

>>15050641
kek based

[Anonymous No.15053078]

>>15050635
Uh no obviously god literally only cares if you worship a dead jew on a stick or not. Nothing else matters. Its in the book
Source: dead jew cult

[Anonymous No.15053103]

>>15051889
Bad things happen sometimes, therefore my particular denomination of desert cult is the true and based religion. Literally everyone is wrong except people who think exactly like me and they are all going to hell because of it.

[Anonymous No.15053218]

>>15053007
The word person comes from Latin persona, which refers to an actor's mask. He's simply saying to take off your mask. It's not like you'd die, in fact it would be extremely enlightening, big guy.

[Anonymous No.15053267]

>>15050635
What do you mean? I pretty much agree with what he says. God is way more chill than people make him out to be. But the Mystics will tell you that to some degree you are missing out on being united to God since you stand in doubt and don't seek to be United to him. but certainly as much as you are truly good you are participating in the Divine Life.

[Anonymous No.15053336]

>>15050989
But some of us like the satisfaction of doing things for the one we love. but it's good that you take delight in goodness since God also does. It's just that I need him to be in me constantly. I need him to fuse with me so much that I can't tell the difference and sometimes he is me and sometimes I'm him. And other times in various people I find it is God speaking to me. How strange that god is my grandmother and my friend.

[Anonymous No.15053355]

>>15052460
Some of us despise being cowards and hate submitting to things that are beneath us. Yes believe it or not some of us don't want to be scum suckers.

[Anonymous No.15053387]

>>15052837
Lmao and that's why the East doesn't believe in the soul and personality. their mysticism is negative in nature. But that's only for people that don't experience it for themselves. they very well know they have a personality since they were using their own damn self to express the truth. Like a cup sunk in the ocean.

[Anonymous No.15053476]

>>15050635
Define 'good' without resorting to religion at all.
Protip: you can't

[Anonymous No.15053559]

>>15052653
Post the latin passage

[Anonymous No.15053674]

>>15052097
this. /x/ post in disguise

[Anonymous No.15054783]

>>15050770
but even if they are inferior they are all we have, and he then gave them to us so ya just gotta roll with it

[Anonymous No.15054790]

>>15050635
>live a good life
Too late, we all sinned.
A future good deed doesn't undo our past sins.
In front of a perfectly holy God we all fall short, we are all guilty and filled with worms. None are righteous, even our good deeds are marked by selfishness.
We need a saviour.
Only Christ can redeem.

[Anonymous No.15054799]

>live a good life

Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God

/thread

[Anonymous No.15054811]

...and the Word was with God and the Word was God....And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son...For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
John 1.

[Anonymous No.15054816]

>>15052418
Not attain power. If you believe stoicism is a means towards power and money, you didn't get the point, and money and power is a foolish thing to want in the first place.

[Anonymous No.15054827]

>>15053476
Define "good" religion and your criteria of picking it over other thousands of religions

Maybe its safer to just choose morals based on philosophical concepts like maxims, rather than jewish desert tales. Just saying.

[Anonymous No.15054829]

>>15050641
fpbp

[Anonymous No.15054867]

What profit is there in the whole Earth?

Naked man came from the womb, naked shall he return

Paraphrasing from Ecc.

You can be the best guy in the world and they will destroy you, your books and your statues. If you don't please God with your devotion to Him then at best you'll be beaten with few stripes, according to Jesus in the afterlife

[Anonymous No.15054909]

>>15050743
>>15050770
These, no wonder stoicism appeals to soiboys, bugmen, and atheists.

[Anonymous No.15055025]

>pederasts "living a good life"
lmao
hell bound

[Anonymous No.15056116]

>>15054827
>jewish desert tales
>Just saying

[Anonymous No.15056142]

>>15050635
He never said that

[Anonymous No.15056175]

>>15050641
absolutely based

[Anonymous No.15056217]

>>15050743
but why would you support and unjust god? how could you ever satisfy his criteria? is it only worshipping him? what if you skip a day?

[Anonymous No.15056936]

>>15050816
Might is right.

[Anonymous No.15056994]

>>15050635
The point of religion IS to live a good life.

[Anonymous No.15057065]

Whether you argue for or against religion, you are a fool.

[Anonymous No.15057147]

>>15050635
He's not entirely wrong, but please tell me the moral system he or yea follow which does not stem from the pure root-essence of a religion, or how a morality can be followed practically for man if not understood in the state of religious reverence and valuing. Liking that of Wagner to Schopenhauer's ethics, he wished to make that the conscious(or intellectual) extrapolation of all future Christian morality, which would require that philosophical drive and reasoning to be put into a religious state, of course literally on par with the already prior religion here, but it stands to the same example whether there exists a prior religion of the same morality or not. One thing is to remember, in modern philosophy and philosophy in general, it is sometimes necessary to speak of things as if relative, comparing moralities and not morality, it is necessary but one must always find himself down to the root-essence of his own speaking if he is to be of any use. Otherwise he is just useless.

And so I have said everything in this post with the moral intention of Jesus Christ.

My second point, these deeper religious yearnings are absolutely necessary for a people, and for man, for he has a religious core- and he is measuring himself up against his own death. The purpose of life is death, and this can only be determined by the profundity of a religion, of a religious determination. What is right is action, what is true is the doing of this. Even if we were to ignore this, the truth of a mystical experience cannot be denied, a sense of thinker which is not conceptual, but comes from a purely natural point. That is unconscious you may say, or supraconscious-- but it is religious, and a truth in action, and I would like to return to my previous point which is of a purely conscious relation: that the nature of life is religious, and man is the only animal which is aware of this, but he is no less prefigured by it. To be without it would be to ask what stands without being, it is for this conversation and answer entirely useless.

[Anonymous No.15057156]

>>15057065
This isn't what Jung said retard. Never seen a more boomer pic in my life.

[Anonymous No.15057929]

>>15053336
You missed my point.
Either you act good because there is a God that guarantees salvation, or you may act good because you conceive of it as good in itself, or perhaps some attempt at glory that surpasses your existence in the memory of your descendents. Either is a properly valid excuse to be good and in no way disproves or grades the quality of a good life.
if you really want to be absolute about it, go read Kantian deontics

[Anonymous No.15058035]

>>15050635
God has to be just by definition, as his will determines what is just (if he exists)

[Anonymous No.15058122]

>>15050635
You mean re(ligion)tards?

[Anonymous No.15058459]

>>15050816
Because he will crush you, insect. Now start worshiping my big strong abusive daddy jew god.

[Anonymous No.15058471]

>>15053476
Define 'good' WITH resorting to religion.
Protip: you can't

[Anonymous No.15058488]

>>15054790
Cringe. God thinks we're all worthless from the get go so he sent himself in human form (but he's also still fully God) to be killed and sacrificed for us. Makes sense bro

[Anonymous No.15058498]

>>15056936
why though

[Anonymous No.15058504]

>>15050806
Still was a fucking emperor of one of the greatest civilizations and fought massive wars you doofus

[Anonymous No.15058508]

>>15050743
If God is unjust then worshipping him won't guarantee salvation. Quite the opposite, probably - sadistic God would enjoy punishing the morons who spent a lifetime in prayer the most. And even if it does and you dodge the flames, you'll spend the rest of your heavenly time in constant fear of the cosmic tyrant as he terrorises mankind for his sick pleasure; at some point the pits of hell would start to look appealing.

[Anonymous No.15058513]

>>15050635
The absolute autism of deigning to apply human moral standards to the Divine. Humanity is fallible in its moral judgment. God is not.

[Anonymous No.15058514]

>>15050635
No way Aurelius said this.

[Anonymous No.15058576]

>>15058513
>>15058035
Holy slave mentals.

Why should God be above moral judgement? Why is he 'infallible'? Infallible God is no more than a machine following strict instructions, your computer is morally infallible, infallibility makes one inferior, not superior, the ability to faulter is the basis of free will. Even the Bible knew that, Moses constantly bickers with God and tells him to stop being fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.15058621]

>>15058576
He's above moral judgment by virtue of omnipotence. An omnipotent being is beyond restriction, and thus beyond good and evil. If God had a nature that could be categorized as good, evil or the two in any combination, He would be restricted by that nature, and thus not omnipotent.

[Anonymous No.15058630]

Marcus was a very religious individual, infact he tried to be so virtuous BECAUSE he believed in the gods

[Anonymous No.15058634]

>>15050635
It’s perfect.

[Anonymous No.15058730]

>>15050743
I'd rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.

[Anonymous No.15058824]

>>15050635
"Good" and "Just" has no meaning without a standard. Marcus is like Plato in that he understands that these things have to have transcendant meaning but he has to mash them into a world where the Gods could also be evil or nonexistent.

[Anonymous No.15058841]

>>15058498
Because the weak can't oppose the strong, therefore the strong creates the rules.

[Anonymous No.15058861]

>>15058841
What does it have to do with morality you dumbfuck?

[Anonymous No.15058933]

>>15053355
The gods are greater than you by definition you stupid mortal. Might as well say you won't submit to gravity.

[Anonymous No.15058952]

>>15058861
In his view, it has everything to do with morality.

[Anonymous No.15058954]

>>15058861
The strong govern your morality. There is no meaning in the morality of the weak.

[Anonymous No.15059174]

>>15058730
Your still serving retard, hell is just as much under god's dominion as heaven is

[Anonymous No.15059218]

>>15058954
That's not what "morality" means you /pol/-tier dimwit. I can put a gun to your head and force you to claim 2x2=5. That doesn't mean the truth mathematics is dependent on "might makes right" or something.

And which "strong" exactly are you talking about? The intelligent merchants that use trickery & economics to dominate muscle-bound brainlets? Because that's the reality right now, that warriors with guns are mere tools of the technocratic capitalist class. So spare me your nonsense derived from your one reading of Ragnar Redbeard. Strength doesn't define anything except force to compel obedience in a limited set of cases. Obedience to what goals, is what subjects like ethics or morality seeks to answer.

[Anonymous No.15059416]

>>15058933
I'm only LARPing as a mortal.

[Anonymous No.15059518]

[Anonymous No.15059597]

>>15057929
I guess that's fine as long as the definition of salvation is a pretty open thing and not limited to "obey so that you don't get smashed by God's boot". Still others do good more as a utilitarian thing which leaves open the possibility of them doing bad if it is useful to them.

[Anonymous No.15059609]

>>15050635
Why would I disagree?

[Anonymous No.15059614]

>>15059218
you've used mathematics (which relates to the properties of objects) as a point of comparison for morality (which relates to subjective thought) you midwit

[Anonymous No.15059617]

>>15050743
But where's the guarantee that this unjust God won't do an epic troll and burn you regardless of your devotion? If anything it would be the definition of an unjust God to betray the unwavering trust of his faithful.

[Anonymous No.15060041]

>>15050635
>if there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by

Relativist, begone. There is only one path to salvation. If I adopt awful virtues and live by them, or underwhelming virtues, a good god wouldn't accept me by his side.

>if there are gods, but unjust, then you should not worship them
Enjoy an eternity in some god's hell / getting cursed by Greek gods

>If there are no gods, you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on
You will be dead, so the world will be dead to you and it will be as if nothing had ever been. Caesar or a tramp, they all die the same and their ability to experience their memory dies with them, so why bother? Eventually, their memory, too, will be forgotten, and even further in the future (if the scientist-prophets are to be believed) the earth will perish in some cataclysmic collision and there won't be anyone to remember anything anymore (unless the alien sky-fairies exist)

[Anonymous No.15060057]

>>15052653
Lmfao
/thread

[Anonymous No.15060313]

>>15058576
And this reddit-faggotry right here. God isn't "following instructions".

>>15059614
You've already begun with the assumption that "morality" is subjective & relative. Begone until you've actually read the Greeks or something.

>>15060041
This anon gets it.

[Anonymous No.15060426]

>>15057156
Also budai and krishna shows the boomer only has a stereotype level understanding of non christian faith

[Anonymous No.15060722]

>>15060313
1) the greek language does not allow people to construct subjective statements to begin with you pseud

2) morality is a domain of thought and thoughts are had by subjects

[Anonymous No.15061706]

>>15052767
Chad. Welcome home

[Anonymous No.15061827]

>>15050635
>philosophy
>"live a good life."
>reply to this
no. fuck you.

[Anonymous No.15061921]

>all these retards think that their concepts of God are true
I thought that /lit/ was the highest IQ board...

[Anonymous No.15061931]

>>15061921
>never read the statistical data of theologians vs niggers IQ

[Anonymous No.15061940]

Romans 2
James 2

[Anonymous No.15061952]

>>15050761

Literally, actually not an argument. It's just "No they don't do that it only be like I say it do."

[Anonymous No.15061957]

>>15061940
2 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking[a] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

God's Judgment and the Law
12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

[Anonymous No.15061962]

>>15061952
Actually it is an argument, he called you out on your vehement denial which you ironically are still doing without asking a question

[Anonymous No.15061968]

>>15061940
>>15061957
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead

[Anonymous No.15061991]

>He believes in God
Retard
>He doesn't believe in God
Also a retard

[Anonymous No.15062093]

>>15060041
>(if the scientist-prophets are to be believed)

[Anonymous No.15062104]

>>15058841
yeah but why are those rules right

[Anonymous No.15062117]

>>15061921

all the heathens want the gifts of God, the joy, the experiences, the purpose, but none want to believe and obey Him.

that's why there is a resurgence in false spirituality,, people do yoga, buddhism, advaita, ekhart tolle, guenon, they think plato, plotinus, shankara and sufism will give them some mystical experience, some meaning and bliss....
but you can't have the fruits of God without submitting to Him.